Re: [darktable-user] Getting machine JPG colours in RAW editing

[Martin Straeten]

You might use this: 
https://pixls.us/articles/profiling-a-camera-with-darktable-chart/
But this approach isn’t useful when using filmic, since color lookup table and 
tonecurve are mandatory.
Best solution to get nikon colors is using the software provided by nikon ;)

> Am 04.11.2020 um 23:36 schrieb Germano Massullo :
> 
>  Good day, I have shoot the following photo in JPEG+RAW and I would need 
> your help in reproducing the colours of the camera JPEG in dartkable RAW 
> editing.
> This is a Nikon Z6 JPEG 
> https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/original_z6_JPG.JPG
> here instead the result of my elaboration of the RAW file 
> https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/darktable_edited_raw.jpg
> This is the XMP file 
> https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/DSC_1075_05.NEF.xmp
> I cannot manage to achieve the same colours, playing with the colour balance 
> did not help because it turned too much "reddish" the whole picture. Any idea?
> Thank you for your time
> 
>  
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to 
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 


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Re: [darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure

[David Vincent-Jones]

Maybe I need to explain in a better manner. It was suggested that the 
viewfinder  and JPG output from the camera is brighter than the 
equivalent RAW data on all cameras. Some cameras 1/3 stop, some 1/5 and 
on Fuji cameras as much as 1.25 stops. The inference is that our 
'correct' exposure is in fact incorrect and that we routinely need to 
boost our RAW data by a certain amount. Tests that I made (Fujifilm 
camera) did indeed show that this was correct annd as a result my 
exposure now automatically adds an appropriate amount ant I rarely need 
to make a further exposure adjustment.


However, if I am making an exposure compensation, the compensation needs 
to be accumulated into the base amount. If I do check the compensation 
box ... nothing changes! I now must assume that my 'standard' offset os 
blocking the compensation offset.


Sounds complicated ... not really ... maybe it is now more clear.

David

On 2020-11-04 8:19 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:

When you take an image with your camera, the auto-metering will normally
try to set the exposure so that the average brightness of the image is
around middle grey. However, if the scene is dominated by dark tones, this
can cause the exposure to set brigher, and cause highlights to be clipped.
So, you need to dial in some negative exposure compensation to protect
those highlights. Alternatively, a scene dominated by bright tones will
cause the exposure to be reduced, and in order to avoid noise in the
shadows, you want to increase the exposure compensation to boost the
shadows while making sure you don't clip the highlights.

The "compensate camera exposure" setting is designed to undo these
compensation adjustments that were made in order to place the scene within
the optimum dynamic range of your sensor. This then reverts the exposure of
the image back to what the camera's metering originally proposed. The
camera's metering will already give a good result in most cases, but in
those cases where it doesn't, you can make a manual adjustment on the
exposure module slider to set your midtones to an optimum point, and then
use filmic to deal with the highlights and shadows. Alternatively, if you
are doing display-referred workflow, you can use the exposure module to set
your scene white point to match your display white point, and use something
like base curve to adjust the rest of the tones.

This is the basic idea behind the "compensation camera exposure" feature of
the exposure module.


On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 14:56, Terry Pinfold 
wrote:



Hi Matt,
  I was having a few images come up too dark but having uncheck the
"compensate camera exposure" box gives Filmic a more expected behaviour. I
am not sure why that option even exists as I expect that if I use EV comp
on the camera, I want EV comp applied not removed.

Thanks for the tip.
--
*From:* Matt Maguire 
*Sent:* Thursday, 5 November 2020 2:15 PM
*To:* David Vincent-Jones 
*Cc:* darktable forum 
*Subject:* Re: [darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure

If I take a photo where I bumped up the exposure compensation dial +1EV on
my camera to "expose the the right", then when I import the image, by
default exposure module adds the +0.5EV exposure, and takes off the +1EV I
added using the camera exposure dial, to give me a net -0.5EV exposure
adjustment. If I uncheck the "compensate camera exposure" box, then the
picture brightens up by +1EV, no longer compensating for that +1EV I
dialled in to the camera when I took the shot.

So, it all seems to work as expected. Do you see something different? How
are you getting that automatic increment of +1.25EV? That's not in the
code, so it must be an auto-apply preset you have defined. Did you have the
"compensate camera exposure" box ticked when you defined the preset? If
not, then the preset will not activate this compensation.


On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 12:37, David Vincent-Jones 
wrote:

Exposure on my RAW files is automatically incremented by 1.25 EV (Fujifilm
camera) as a result of the current filmic auto operation. I have in
addition checked the box for an adjustment based on "compensate camera
exposure". These 2 EV adjustment should be cumulative but currently the
second adjustment is not being applied.

Anybody else seeing this?

David


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Re: [darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure

[Matt Maguire]

When you take an image with your camera, the auto-metering will normally
try to set the exposure so that the average brightness of the image is
around middle grey. However, if the scene is dominated by dark tones, this
can cause the exposure to set brigher, and cause highlights to be clipped.
So, you need to dial in some negative exposure compensation to protect
those highlights. Alternatively, a scene dominated by bright tones will
cause the exposure to be reduced, and in order to avoid noise in the
shadows, you want to increase the exposure compensation to boost the
shadows while making sure you don't clip the highlights.

The "compensate camera exposure" setting is designed to undo these
compensation adjustments that were made in order to place the scene within
the optimum dynamic range of your sensor. This then reverts the exposure of
the image back to what the camera's metering originally proposed. The
camera's metering will already give a good result in most cases, but in
those cases where it doesn't, you can make a manual adjustment on the
exposure module slider to set your midtones to an optimum point, and then
use filmic to deal with the highlights and shadows. Alternatively, if you
are doing display-referred workflow, you can use the exposure module to set
your scene white point to match your display white point, and use something
like base curve to adjust the rest of the tones.

This is the basic idea behind the "compensation camera exposure" feature of
the exposure module.


On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 14:56, Terry Pinfold 
wrote:

>
>
> Hi Matt,
>  I was having a few images come up too dark but having uncheck the
> "compensate camera exposure" box gives Filmic a more expected behaviour. I
> am not sure why that option even exists as I expect that if I use EV comp
> on the camera, I want EV comp applied not removed.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
> --
> *From:* Matt Maguire 
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 November 2020 2:15 PM
> *To:* David Vincent-Jones 
> *Cc:* darktable forum 
> *Subject:* Re: [darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure
>
> If I take a photo where I bumped up the exposure compensation dial +1EV on
> my camera to "expose the the right", then when I import the image, by
> default exposure module adds the +0.5EV exposure, and takes off the +1EV I
> added using the camera exposure dial, to give me a net -0.5EV exposure
> adjustment. If I uncheck the "compensate camera exposure" box, then the
> picture brightens up by +1EV, no longer compensating for that +1EV I
> dialled in to the camera when I took the shot.
>
> So, it all seems to work as expected. Do you see something different? How
> are you getting that automatic increment of +1.25EV? That's not in the
> code, so it must be an auto-apply preset you have defined. Did you have the
> "compensate camera exposure" box ticked when you defined the preset? If
> not, then the preset will not activate this compensation.
>
>
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 12:37, David Vincent-Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Exposure on my RAW files is automatically incremented by 1.25 EV (Fujifilm
> camera) as a result of the current filmic auto operation. I have in
> addition checked the box for an adjustment based on "compensate camera
> exposure". These 2 EV adjustment should be cumulative but currently the
> second adjustment is not being applied.
>
> Anybody else seeing this?
>
> David
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>
> University of Tasmania Electronic Communications Policy (December, 2014).
> This email is confidential, and is for the intended recipient only.
> Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by
> anyone outside the intended recipient organisation is prohibited and may be
> a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email
> confirmation to the sender. The views expressed in this email are not
> necessarily the views of the University of Tasmania, unless clearly
> intended otherwise.
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure

[Terry Pinfold]

Hi Matt,
 I was having a few images come up too dark but having uncheck the 
"compensate camera exposure" box gives Filmic a more expected behaviour. I am 
not sure why that option even exists as I expect that if I use EV comp on the 
camera, I want EV comp applied not removed.

Thanks for the tip.

From: Matt Maguire 
Sent: Thursday, 5 November 2020 2:15 PM
To: David Vincent-Jones 
Cc: darktable forum 
Subject: Re: [darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure

If I take a photo where I bumped up the exposure compensation dial +1EV on my 
camera to "expose the the right", then when I import the image, by default 
exposure module adds the +0.5EV exposure, and takes off the +1EV I added using 
the camera exposure dial, to give me a net -0.5EV exposure adjustment. If I 
uncheck the "compensate camera exposure" box, then the picture brightens up by 
+1EV, no longer compensating for that +1EV I dialled in to the camera when I 
took the shot.

So, it all seems to work as expected. Do you see something different? How are 
you getting that automatic increment of +1.25EV? That's not in the code, so it 
must be an auto-apply preset you have defined. Did you have the "compensate 
camera exposure" box ticked when you defined the preset? If not, then the 
preset will not activate this compensation.


On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 12:37, David Vincent-Jones 
mailto:david...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Exposure on my RAW files is automatically incremented by 1.25 EV (Fujifilm 
camera) as a result of the current filmic auto operation. I have in addition 
checked the box for an adjustment based on "compensate camera exposure". These 
2 EV adjustment should be cumulative but currently the second adjustment is not 
being applied.

Anybody else seeing this?

David

 
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University of Tasmania Electronic Communications Policy (December, 2014).
This email is confidential, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, 
disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone outside 
the intended recipient organisation is prohibited and may be a criminal 
offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the 
sender. The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of the 
University of Tasmania, unless clearly intended otherwise.


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Re: [darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure

[Matt Maguire]

If I take a photo where I bumped up the exposure compensation dial +1EV on
my camera to "expose the the right", then when I import the image, by
default exposure module adds the +0.5EV exposure, and takes off the +1EV I
added using the camera exposure dial, to give me a net -0.5EV exposure
adjustment. If I uncheck the "compensate camera exposure" box, then the
picture brightens up by +1EV, no longer compensating for that +1EV I
dialled in to the camera when I took the shot.

So, it all seems to work as expected. Do you see something different? How
are you getting that automatic increment of +1.25EV? That's not in the
code, so it must be an auto-apply preset you have defined. Did you have the
"compensate camera exposure" box ticked when you defined the preset? If
not, then the preset will not activate this compensation.


On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 12:37, David Vincent-Jones  wrote:

> Exposure on my RAW files is automatically incremented by 1.25 EV (Fujifilm
> camera) as a result of the current filmic auto operation. I have in
> addition checked the box for an adjustment based on "compensate camera
> exposure". These 2 EV adjustment should be cumulative but currently the
> second adjustment is not being applied.
>
> Anybody else seeing this?
>
> David
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>


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[darktable-user] Compensate camera exposure

[David Vincent-Jones]

Exposure on my RAW files is automatically incremented by 1.25 EV 
(Fujifilm camera) as a result of the current filmic auto operation. I 
have in addition checked the box for an adjustment based on "compensate 
camera exposure". These 2 EV adjustment should be cumulative but 
currently the second adjustment is not being applied.


Anybody else seeing this?

David



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Re: [darktable-user] Getting machine JPG colours in RAW editing

[David Vincent-Jones]

Your camera JPG is produced using Nikon's secret and special 'sauce' and 
achieving an identical result would be difficult. People who shoot RAW 
files generally believe that they can hand craft a result that is at 
least similar but probably better than that which the camera 
manufacturer can offer. We all have differing opinions regarding how our 
images should look and the Nikon look does not appeal to all tastes. 
Learning RAW processing in darktable is complex, it takes time and 
effort but the results can be far more rewarding than that which the 
camera manufacturer can offer.


Bruce Williams has produced a fine and extensive set of on-line videos 
explaining various darktable elements. Check them out.


David

On 2020-11-04 2:35 p.m., Germano Massullo wrote:

Good day, I have shoot the following photo in JPEG+RAW and I would need
your help in reproducing the colours of the camera JPEG in dartkable RAW
editing.

This is a Nikon Z6 JPEG
https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/original_z6_JPG.JPG

here instead the result of my elaboration of the RAW file
https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/darktable_edited_raw.jpg

This is the XMP file
https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/DSC_1075_05.NEF.xmp

I cannot manage to achieve the same colours, playing with the colour
balance did not help because it turned too much "reddish" the whole
picture. Any idea?

Thank you for your time



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Re: [darktable-user] Getting machine JPG colours in RAW editing

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Germano Massullo  [11-04-20 17:37]:
> Good day, I have shoot the following photo in JPEG+RAW and I would need
> your help in reproducing the colours of the camera JPEG in dartkable RAW
> editing.
> 
> This is a Nikon Z6 JPEG
> https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/original_z6_JPG.JPG
> 
> here instead the result of my elaboration of the RAW file
> https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/darktable_edited_raw.jpg
> 
> This is the XMP file
> https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/DSC_1075_05.NEF.xmp
> 
> I cannot manage to achieve the same colours, playing with the colour
> balance did not help because it turned too much "reddish" the whole
> picture. Any idea?

you might try here:
  https://discuss.pixls.us/search?q=playraw

but you must remember that the jpg was produced by nikon processes which
are unknown software wise to developers.

and you neglected to provide the raw image for anyone to try ...

  
-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode

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[darktable-user] Getting machine JPG colours in RAW editing

[Germano Massullo]

Good day, I have shoot the following photo in JPEG+RAW and I would need
your help in reproducing the colours of the camera JPEG in dartkable RAW
editing.

This is a Nikon Z6 JPEG
https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/original_z6_JPG.JPG

here instead the result of my elaboration of the RAW file
https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/darktable_edited_raw.jpg

This is the XMP file
https://germano.fedorapeople.org/canc/pantheon/DSC_1075_05.NEF.xmp

I cannot manage to achieve the same colours, playing with the colour
balance did not help because it turned too much "reddish" the whole
picture. Any idea?

Thank you for your time



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