Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Question is posted. Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search doesn't show up anything :-/ https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc_type=allwordssubstrshort_desc=long_desc_type=substringlong_desc=bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstrbug_file_loc=keywords_type=allwordskeywords=emailassigned_to1=1emailtype1=substringemail1=emailassigned_to2=1emailreporter2=1emailcc2=1emailtype2=substringemail2=bugidtype=includebug_id=chfieldfrom=2012-04-23chfieldto=Nowchfield=%5BBug+creation%5Dchfieldvalue=cmdtype=doitorder=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+timefield0-0-0=nooptype0-0-0=noopvalue0-0-0= Regards, -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
IP questions are kept private. Wayne On 04/25/2012 02:42 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Question is posted. Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search doesn't show up anything :-/ https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc_type=allwordssubstrshort_desc=long_desc_type=substringlong_desc=bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstrbug_file_loc=keywords_type=allwordskeywords=emailassigned_to1=1emailtype1=substringemail1=emailassigned_to2=1emailreporter2=1emailcc2=1emailtype2=substringemail2=bugidtype=includebug_id=chfieldfrom=2012-04-23chfieldto=Nowchfield=%5BBug+creation%5Dchfieldvalue=cmdtype=doitorder=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+timefield0-0-0=nooptype0-0-0=noopvalue0-0-0= Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Why? On 04/25/2012 03:20 PM, Wayne Beaton wrote: IP questions are kept private. Wayne On 04/25/2012 02:42 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 24.04.2012 15:53, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Question is posted. Thanks a lot. Is there a way I can follow the discussion? The search doesn't show up anything :-/ https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc_type=allwordssubstrshort_desc=long_desc_type=substringlong_desc=bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstrbug_file_loc=keywords_type=allwordskeywords=emailassigned_to1=1emailtype1= substringemail1=emailassigned_to2=1emailreporter2=1emailcc2=1emailtype2=substringemail2=bugidtype=includebug_id=chfieldfrom=2012-04-23chfieldto=Nowchfield=%5BBug+creation%5Dchfieldvalue=cmdtype=doitorder=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+timefield0-0-0=nooptype0-0-0=noopvalue0-0-0= Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy: Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less). I don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency. +1 I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something) or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)? Regards, -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
I'm guessing it's just an accident of how the IP system was setup, e.g. no set of permissions set up for IP questions vs. actual CQs. On 2012-04-25, at 12:58 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy: Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less). I don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency. +1 I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something) or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)? Regards, -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Could be -- but I implemented that functionality, and I don't remember that to be part of the design. I'll look into it. On 04/25/2012 04:00 PM, Miles Parker wrote: I'm guessing it's just an accident of how the IP system was setup, e.g. no set of permissions set up for IP questions vs. actual CQs. On 2012-04-25, at 12:58 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 25.04.2012 21:45, schrieb Denis Roy: Sure, for CQs, but this is discussion involving licensing and copyright initiated by a member of our community (and a committer, no less). I don't understand why such discussion would need to happen behind closed doors, especially considering we advocate openness and transparency. +1 I could understand if comments were disabled for CQs to keep them clean but why completely hide them? Is that a legal matter (NDA or something) or a social matter (avoid bad blood, heated discussions, trolling)? Regards, -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev -- *Denis Roy* Director, IT Services Eclipse Foundation, Inc. -- http://www.eclipse.org/ Office: 613.224.9461 x224 (Eastern time) denis@eclipse.org ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Zitat von Wayne Beaton wa...@eclipse.org: Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members. Sorry about that. What have we learned yesterday? open source isn't that open after all ;-) I guess that I'll have to pose the question. Thanks. Can you give me some words to start from? Sure: -- cut -- There was a request on the dash-dev mailing list how to handle the following situation: Copying code from public sources like Wikipedia, Stackoverflow or private blogs. To limit the scope of the discussion and kind of create a precedent, let's start with copying code from Stackoverflow. Stackoverflow.com is a site where all kinds of software developers share their knowledge. According to the rules of the site, all user contributions licensed under cc-wiki with attribution required (see the bottom of each page on http://stackoverflow.com/). cc-wiki means: You are free to share - to copy, distribute and transmit the work -, to remix - to adapt the work - and to make commercial use of the work (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/) attribution required means You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work). Details can be found in this blog post: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/ The four rules mentioned there apply if you copy (republish this content) the whole stackoverflow site - answers, questions, user data, everything. They don't make that much sense when just a piece of code is copied. For me, only the second rule makes sense in the context of using code from stackoverflow.com in Eclipse projects: Hyperlink directly to the original question I read that as: Add a comment with a link to the place where you found the code that you copied/used as a template. Can you please verify this for any code published on stackoverflow.com? My main goal is to get a single all-time approval for code so Eclipse developers can use this great resource without causing thousands of tiny CQ requests. If this works well, I'd like to file similar requests for other public developer resources like, for example, Wikipedia. -- cut -- Regards, -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://www.pdark.de/ http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
On 04/24/2012 05:43 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Zitat von Wayne Beaton wa...@eclipse.org: Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members. Sorry about that. What have we learned yesterday? open source isn't that open after all ;-) Sorry... hot button item. What is your definition of open? We invite participation in the project. We have a level playing field for those who want to participate. We balance that with a well-defined policy for managing intellectual property. How is this not open? Wayne -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Question is posted. Wayne On 04/24/2012 05:43 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Zitat von Wayne Beaton wa...@eclipse.org: Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members. Sorry about that. What have we learned yesterday? open source isn't that open after all ;-) I guess that I'll have to pose the question. Thanks. Can you give me some words to start from? Sure: -- cut -- There was a request on the dash-dev mailing list how to handle the following situation: Copying code from public sources like Wikipedia, Stackoverflow or private blogs. To limit the scope of the discussion and kind of create a precedent, let's start with copying code from Stackoverflow. Stackoverflow.com is a site where all kinds of software developers share their knowledge. According to the rules of the site, all user contributions licensed under cc-wiki with attribution required (see the bottom of each page on http://stackoverflow.com/). cc-wiki means: You are free to share - to copy, distribute and transmit the work -, to remix - to adapt the work - and to make commercial use of the work (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/) attribution required means You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work). Details can be found in this blog post: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/ The four rules mentioned there apply if you copy (republish this content) the whole stackoverflow site - answers, questions, user data, everything. They don't make that much sense when just a piece of code is copied. For me, only the second rule makes sense in the context of using code from stackoverflow.com in Eclipse projects: Hyperlink directly to the original question I read that as: Add a comment with a link to the place where you found the code that you copied/used as a template. Can you please verify this for any code published on stackoverflow.com? My main goal is to get a single all-time approval for code so Eclipse developers can use this great resource without causing thousands of tiny CQ requests. If this works well, I'd like to file similar requests for other public developer resources like, for example, Wikipedia. -- cut -- Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
On 2012-04-24, at 9:21 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Zitat von Wayne Beaton wa...@eclipse.org: How is this not open? As I said yesterday: It's not open because I can't simply copy code from GPL'd projects or other OSS sources without causing a lot of trouble :-) OK, I'll be the first to point out that you can't *ever* copy code from GPL'd projects, and that GPL isn't OSS. ;) ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
OK, I'll be the first to point out that you can't *ever* copy code from GPL'd projects, and that GPL isn't OSS. ;) Hahahahahaha. Andrew ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
I'm just happy to see all this open communication on the Dash dev list. Wayne On 04/24/2012 01:23 PM, Andrew Overholt wrote: OK, I'll be the first to point out that you can't *ever* copy code from GPL'd projects, and that GPL isn't OSS. ;) Hahahahahaha. Andrew ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
The copied code is intellectual property and as such is subject to the Eclipse IP Due Diligence process. It can only be distributed from eclipse.org (e.g. a source code repository) if we have clear license from the author to do so. Yes, it's a small bit of code, but the full IP process still applies. The easiest way to make this work is to ask the original author to contribute the code as an attachment on a Bugzilla record with the following assertions in the comment: I authored 100% the content they are contributing; have the rights to donate the content to EPL; and contribute the content under the EPL. With this in place, you can add the code into the repository, flip the iplog+ flag, and be off to the races. Alternatively, I think we can make the case that Stack Overflow contributions are CC-licensed [1] and treat the code similar to a third-party library. However, I believe that license compatibility will be complicated. HTH, Wayne [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ On 04/23/2012 09:25 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Hello, I've stumbled over one of these corner cases: I copied 7 lines of code from stackoverflow.com (http://stackoverflow.com/a/3758880/34088) The code isn't an OSS project, it's not under a specific license and I feel that it's not worth the effort to run this through the standard IP process. What are the rules when you copy a code example from a blog? I tried to find some guidelines in the committer rules and IP process, etc, but everything there is more suitable for we want to fork some big OSS project. Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Am 23.04.2012 19:24, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Alternatively, I think we can make the case that Stack Overflow contributions are CC-licensed [1] and treat the code similar to a third-party library. However, I believe that license compatibility will be complicated. Here is some material to support this: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/ The text is a bit complicated; the four rules apply if you make a copy of the site under a different domain. Since source code isn't HTML, the only rule that applies is probably #2 which boils down to add a link to the question/answer where you got that code from How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was just the first one who dared to ask :-) Regards, [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ On 04/23/2012 09:25 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Hello, I've stumbled over one of these corner cases: I copied 7 lines of code from stackoverflow.com (http://stackoverflow.com/a/3758880/34088) The code isn't an OSS project, it's not under a specific license and I feel that it's not worth the effort to run this through the standard IP process. What are the rules when you copy a code example from a blog? I tried to find some guidelines in the committer rules and IP process, etc, but everything there is more suitable for we want to fork some big OSS project. Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Sounds like a plan. Wayne On 04/23/2012 01:47 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was just the first one who dared to ask :-) Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Am 23.04.2012 20:08, schrieb Miles Parker: That's kind of perverse, given that one of the major points of Open Source is to be able to share code with one another... rant OSS is not about sharing code with just anyone; it's only with anyone you happen to like! The main difference to proprietary software is that OSS developers don't believe that you can buy love. And they especially hate you if you happen to use a different OSS license than the one which they painstakingly selected after a long time of suffering (reading legalese, trying to understand it, telling your shrink that you're not insane - the rest of the world is and you can prove it, ...) It's an ego problem: I spent a year to find the perfect license, so everyone else must be an idiot (proof: they use a different one). And who would want to share their hard work with fools? /rant Regards, -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Sounds like a plan. Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ request on ipzilla, right? What project should I select? eclipse.platform? How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was just the first one who dared to ask :-) Regards, -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Good question. Go to the portal, select any project (it doesn't matter) in the Eclipse Projects component. Click on the [pose] a question about general legal issue option. That'll take you to the right place. (or just go here: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IPcomponent=IP_Discussion https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IPcomponent=IP_Discussion) Wayne On 04/23/2012 02:40 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Sounds like a plan. Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ request on ipzilla, right? What project should I select? eclipse.platform? How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was just the first one who dared to ask :-) Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Am 23.04.2012 21:01, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Good question. Go to the portal, select any project (it doesn't matter) in the Eclipse Projects component. Click on the [pose] a question about general legal issue option. That'll take you to the right place. (or just go here: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IPcomponent=IP_Discussion https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IPcomponent=IP_Discussion) Thanks a lot for your help! Only, I get nowhere... :-) When I click new in ipzilla, I get page has moved, go to the portal. I did but there is nothing obviously related to CQ or IP processes on https://dev.eclipse.org/portal/myfoundation/portal/portal.php. When I try your link, I get: Sorry, either the product IP does not exist or you aren't authorized to enter a CQ into it. ... :-P Regards, On 04/23/2012 02:40 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Sounds like a plan. Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ request on ipzilla, right? What project should I select? eclipse.platform? How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was just the first one who dared to ask :-) Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev -- Aaron Optimizer Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits. http://blog.pdark.de/ ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] IP Cleanliness question
Right. That functionality is limited to Project Leads and PMC members. Sorry about that. I guess that I'll have to pose the question. Can you give me some words to start from? Thanks, Wayne On 04/23/2012 04:01 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 23.04.2012 21:01, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Good question. Go to the portal, select any project (it doesn't matter) in the Eclipse Projects component. Click on the [pose] a question about general legal issue option. That'll take you to the right place. (or just go here: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IPcomponent=IP_Discussion https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=IPcomponent=IP_Discussion) Thanks a lot for your help! Only, I get nowhere... :-) When I click new in ipzilla, I get page has moved, go to the portal. I did but there is nothing obviously related to CQ or IP processes on https://dev.eclipse.org/portal/myfoundation/portal/portal.php. When I try your link, I get: Sorry, either the product IP does not exist or you aren't authorized to enter a CQ into it. ... :-P Regards, On 04/23/2012 02:40 PM, Aaron Digulla wrote: Am 23.04.2012 19:59, schrieb Wayne Beaton: Sounds like a plan. Since this is my first attempt to do this: That means I should open a CQ request on ipzilla, right? What project should I select? eclipse.platform? How about I open an IP request so the lawyers can give a nod to the rule? This would create a simple, safe solution for all Eclipse developers because I bet that I wasn't the first one to wonder - I was just the first one who dared to ask :-) Regards, -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev -- Wayne Beaton The Eclipse Foundation Twitter: @waynebeaton Explore Eclipse Projects http://www.eclipse.org/projects ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
