Re: Trancing Out with DJ DPL
>>>>> "Sam" == Sam Hartman writes: Sam> Come join me and dance at the venu tonight starting at 8 PM Sam> just after dinner. We'll be in near the restaurant. Sam> I'll start out with a set of tracks taken from Debian (games, Sam> demos and the like). I want to thank everyone who came and danced. That was a truly special night for me. It is one of the first times that I've been really sure something I did creatively was valuable to other people. There's no way you can fake having that much fun. Did anyone get a picture of me Tuesday evening that they would be willing to let me use as an image for a mixcloud page for the set? Relatedly, the complete Tuesday set is available at https://www.mixcloud.com/hartmans/trancing-out-with-dj-dpl-live-from-curitiba-brazil/ I am not aware of any free platforms that will allow me to handle the licensing issues, so I've chosen to use mixcloud even though it is proprietary. --Sam
Re: Announcing the elephant in the room BOF
> "Steve" == Steve McIntyre writes: >> My position when talking to the organizers and DC committee is >> that if we were going to have the discussion it should be widely >> announced. >> >> There are several things that contributed to that decision. >> >> 1) The reasoning behind Social Contract #3 while not directly >> applicable influenced my thinking. We don't hide problems. >> >> 2) Debian is a generally open community. Part of that is making >> sure that people on all sides of the discussion are aware of the >> discussion. It makes it easier for those of us who have to think >> about project opinion and consensus if discussions actually have >> all their stakeholders present. Especially if a discussion is >> organized at the last minute, it is more important to announce it >> more widely. Steve> I'm curious - who exactly were the stakeholders here? I've Steve> heard rumours about a "Boycott Debian" group, and found their Steve> website where nobody claims to be a member. I think that needs to be a question for Nicolas Dandrimont and the DC committee. I got grabbed by I think Stefano Rivera and pulled into a discussion to schedule this BOF. I didn't know all the people in that meeting very well and the arguments about whether the discussion needed to happen seem to have mostly already taken place. At some level, the adhoc session scheduling criteria are intentionally fairly loose, and so it seemed like people were going to get a room. At one point I asked one of the advocates whether regardless of what we did, were they going to get together and discuss Saturday. The answer I got was yes. So, the question in my mind was whether we were going to have a more useful discussion with a widely announced session or a potentially small group of people. Steve> Were we just Steve> trying to appease this anonymous set of people for some Steve> reason? I know I've run across a number of not quite open things going on since the decision was announced. People who felt like the discussion on debconf-discuss was prematurely shut down. People trying to advocate for various things to make it harder for us to have a successful debconf. A lot of people privately saying that they wouldn't go. I didn't really get a feel for how big this all is. And I think that's important to know. I'd rather us understand how people feel now than be surprised much closer to the event. I especially do not want to be surprised by people discovering they think they have enough support that it is worth it to them to call a GR close into the event. So, honestly, for me, discovering whether this is a small number of people who are going to be anonymous or whether it is a large number of members of our community is in and of itself valuable. The little hints I had been seeing had reached the level of unknown concern for me, and so I valued quantifying that concern. Steve> From being present in the room for the discussion, I'd say Steve> that we had a reasonable, tolerant, respectful discussion Steve> around DC20. But I'd be hard-pressed to say that we actually Steve> achieved anything with it. I think we explored the question of whether there are any significant unknowns and gave people who felt they were not heard a desir to speak. I think that's quite valuable. I think those of us in the room got a much better sense of the balance of at least that room. For me that was valuable. Steve> Instead, I'm concerned that by Steve> shoe-horning this session in at such short notice we maybe Steve> just gave oxygen to a toxic argument. I've spoken to multiple Steve> people (some present, some not) who share those worries. :-( I think that if the session had been smaller and if people who held strong views had controlled the publicity, the chances that we would have given oxygen to an argument that didn't have wide support would be much greater. >> Also, I honestly do believe this discussion needs to happen. I >> think that we ended up shutting this down a bit too prematurely >> after the decision was announce. I think people have not been >> fully heard on this issue, and I think that is harmful for our >> community overall. Steve> So where does it go from here? Steve> Lots of project members were not in the small session that we Steve> held. I'm not necessarily convinced that all arguments always Steve> need to be heard, but even if we concede that point I don't Steve> think we achieved that either. Well, first, I think we heard that people would like the opportunity to explore better remote participation at DC20. Obviously that needs to be confirmed in a broader community. But I think there was enough support in the room for that idea that we can encourage discussion of whether that's valuable and how to accomplish it. We also received support for the idea that
Re: Retiring from DebConf organisation
> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Carter writes: Jonathan> Hey Laura Jonathan> On 2019/07/28 16:59, Laura Arjona Reina wrote: >> This is the 5th year in a row that I'm contributing to DebConf >> organisation (mostly in the publicity part, but also some part in >> bursaries, and other small things). It's been mostly a pleasure >> and always a honour, I've learnt a lot ant I'd like to thank >> everybody. Jonathan> Thank you so much for all the contributions. Your coverage Jonathan> of the events at DebConf has been excellent and helpful to Jonathan> so many people. I hope that someone can pick it up and Jonathan> continue the work with the high standards that you have Jonathan> established. I'd like to second this. Every year I failed to make it to debconf the publicity coverage reminded me I was missing something important. And when I was there, it helped me realize what a wonderful conference I was at. --Sam
Announcing the elephant in the room BOF
> "Carsten" == Carsten Schoenert writes: Carsten> Was it really needed to give this "wanted" "discussion" a Carsten> specific announcement on DC19? If someone wants to discuss Carsten> these topics they can simple do it by the normal ways we Carsten> have for this. I feel like I ought to step forward and take some of the blame/credit for pushing for the Elephant in the Room BOF to be widely announced. I did not ask for this BOF, but once I became aware that it was going to happen I took a strong position that it should be widely announced. My position when talking to the organizers and DC committee is that if we were going to have the discussion it should be widely announced. There are several things that contributed to that decision. 1) The reasoning behind Social Contract #3 while not directly applicable influenced my thinking. We don't hide problems. 2) Debian is a generally open community. Part of that is making sure that people on all sides of the discussion are aware of the discussion. It makes it easier for those of us who have to think about project opinion and consensus if discussions actually have all their stakeholders present. Especially if a discussion is organized at the last minute, it is more important to announce it more widely. 3) In this specific case, I felt that the announcement was important. People with strong views had made it clear they were going to have the discussion no matter what we did. The question was whether it was going to be narrowly advertized and effectively open only to people who had fairly strong views, or whether it was going to be broader and open to a wider subsection of the project. I did not push for an announcement in an attempt to give any particular position a platform. Instead, I pushed for an announcement so that we had more representative views across the entire community and so people with strong views on both sides were able to see more of the positions in the middle. Also, I honestly do believe this discussion needs to happen. I think that we ended up shutting this down a bit too prematurely after the decision was announce. I think people have not been fully heard on this issue, and I think that is harmful for our community overall. I think the discussion at Debconf was significantly improved by being widely announced among the attendees at the conference.
Re: Trancing Out with DJ DPL
I want to thank everyone who joined in Tuesday night. I haven't had that much fun in a long time! There will be DJs at the conference dinner and the local team has asked if I could play too. After that much fun, I'm going to try and work with them and see if we can make that happen. --Sam
Re: Trancing Out with DJ DPL
Come join me and dance at the venu tonight starting at 8 PM just after dinner. We'll be in near the restaurant. I'll start out with a set of tracks taken from Debian (games, demos and the like). Then I'll move into a more traditional electronic set playing Trance, Progressive, a bit of Progressive House and some Techno. I'm likely to close with some pop tracks, because there are a couple of things I just have to play. We don't care how you dance; just come and let the beat control your body! --Sam
Re: How to become a package maintainer?
> "Alexander" == Alexander V Gusev writes: Alexander>Hello! I represent AstraLinux, a russian Debian Alexander> derivative. We are interested to contribute our effort to Alexander> maintanence of Debian packages. For example, the Alexander> developer of qmmp (music player) is working for us, and Alexander> we can readily offer maintenance of qmmp package in Alexander> Debian. Is it possible that we meet someone at debconf to Alexander> sit somewhere and discuss this question? -- I spoke to Alexander and some of his coworkers earlier today. I think they could benefit from someone helping explain how they can submit packages and how they can eventuly go through the maintainer process. --Sam
Lost Bose Headphones; please let me know if found
I lost someBose QuietComfort 20 Acoustic Noise Cancelling Headphones,; they are in a little pouch with a zipper; two little earbuds and a small box. I last used them in the noisy hack lab in the venue, but they may have fallen out of my bag.
Your DPL is (mostly) friendly; feel free to chat
I realize that being blind makes it a bit hard to figure out when I can be approached without interrupting. You can't try to make ey contact. If I'm in a hack lab with no headphones or headphones only in one ear, then by all means assume that I'm open to being interrupted. (Use common sense if I'm engaged with someone else. If we're clearly laughing and having fun at reasonable volume, it's probably fine to join in. If we're busy discussing something, then use appropriate judgment) If I'm standing around on my own, again I'm probably available. Email is slightly better than IRC for trying to schedule time.
Trancing Out with DJ DPL: Music Suggestions
So it looks like I'm hosting a dance party Tuesday evening. I'm excited and nervous. I'm hoping to show a bit of what music means to me and to put it into the context of Debian. Most of my catalog is Trance with Progressive, Progressive House and a bit of Techno thrown in for fun. Looking for stuff that is fun to dance to and not too slow. I'm imagining a 126+ event, and we're certainly not afraid of 138. I'd love to get suggestions for music to include. I'll take a look at the form that was set up a few months ago, but I'd also appreciate track suggestions from people who will be at this event. If you have anything you'd like me to consider please reply privately. I'm particularly looking for: * Brazilian electronic dance producers; I've found a couple of good tracks from Nathia Kate but would be interested in more local music * Tracks that you find fun or are particularly meaningful to you * Tracks about Debian, Linux or Free Software. No really, there are Linux techno tracks that aren't half bad! * Creative commons or other open licensed tracks that fit in with the sort of music I'm playing * Tracks contained within Debian. So like parts of sound tracks from games that are good electronic dance Thanks for any help that you can provide. And come dance! There's no wrong way to dance; just come and let the music move you!
Re: Tips/warnings/suggestion for newcomers at DebConf19
> "gregor" == gregor herrmann writes: gregor> On Thu, 30 May 2019 09:34:20 -0300, Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana wrote: >> We need help from you, experienced attendee: what kind of >> tips/warnings/suggestion you can give for newcomers about >> DebConf? How newcomers can enjoy DebConf? How they can make this >> DebConf a great opportunity to join the community and help >> Debian? Speaking entirely as an individual. Conferences have a lot of talks and sessions. I have found though that the networking and connections and personal interactions at conferences are far more valuable in the long term than the sessions. I find that going to a few of the sessions sparks ideas, but that it's way to easy to get overwhelmed by the sessions and not get a chance to actually act on those ideas. Typically at a conference like this I only make it to one or two actual scheduled sessions a day. I spend the rest of the time brainstorming, talking about sessions, hacking, connecting with people, and processing what I've learned. This year I suspect I'll end up at more sessions, but that happens. --Sam
Is it possible to buy meals on-site
This tends to change venu-to-venue based on how catering is handled. If we discover that schedules have changed and we need to take a meal in the venue that we did not plan to take there, is it possible to buy that on site, or is it important that we make sure to pay for any meal we might possibly take at the venue up front as part of our registration? --Sam
Re: The tone of discussion on this list
> "Ian" == Ian Jackson writes:
Ian> Alexander Wirt writes ("Re: The tone of discussion on this
Ian> list"):
>> I did not wanted to say its antisemetic, I wanted to say that we
>> don't want to see either antisemetic _or_ antiisrelism. In my
>> experience most discussions starting with antiisrealiasm will end
>> with being antisemetic.
Ian> I strongly disagree with the decision to ban "anti-israelism",
Ian> ie, criticism of Israel. The choice of Israel as a venue for
Ian> Debconf means that the question of the ethics or otherwise of
Ian> visiting Israel has been made on topic for this list.
I'd like to draw what I think is an important distinction:
Discussing the evaluation criteria for venue selection needs to be in
scope for our discussions.
Discussing specific venue selection decisions needs to be in scope for
our lists.
Discussing ethical problems that our participants have whith the
decisions of a particular government needs to be in scope to the extent
that it impacts venue selection.
Discussing feelings people have about venue choices or the criteria
needs to be in scope.
"I'm frustrated (or something much stronger) we are going to place X. I
don't feel safe there. I don't feel welcome because when I hear this
decision I don't feel that my safety is being valued; I don't feel that
Debian is welcoming to my race/culture/religion/whatever" are things we need to
be able to say.
The further it gets away from Debconf venue selection, the closer to
off-topic it gets for this list in my mind.
"I don't want us going to Israel because I think that by going there
we'd be supporting these practices" needs to be something we can say.
"Israel is bad" absent a clear connection to debconf venue selection is
off topic.
Yes, the connection might be obvious to you.
However actually taking the time to clearly link it back is something
that I believe makes messages easier to approach. So I'd ask you to
take that time.
And "Citizens of Israel are bad because ..." is something that I think
should be inappropriate in any Debian context.
I understand I'm not a listmaster, and this is an area where my only
power is to try and be reasonable and hope others agree with me.
I hope I've done that here and provided a balance that both the
listmasters and those who want to discuss Debconf 20 can live with.
Re: If I were to DJ, would you come dance and help me have fun with the accessible free-software DJ tool I spent this year writing?
> "ValessioBrito" == ValessioBrito writes: ValessioBrito>Hi Sam, I have a DJ friend also want to ValessioBrito> collaborate. can get to DebCamp to set up a music ValessioBrito> hacklab! Nice idea! I'm definitely happy to chat with your friend. My approach is probably very different because I'm blind, but I'm very open to learning. I submitted a session proposal titled "Transing Out with DJ DPL". I don't entirely know what my debcamp availability will be like: I recently was elected project leader and I'm imagining that may involve some work at debcamp:-)
If I were to DJ, would you come dance and help me have fun with the accessible free-software DJ tool I spent this year writing?
So, I know that at past Debconfs people have sometimes gotten together for some impromptu dancing to music. I got interested in mixing music as part of putting together my wedding. Because I'm blind, most of the existing DJ software wasn't something I could approach. (Yes, digital vinyl systems would have been an option, but not my style). So, I wrote my own. https://hartmans.livejournal.com/98220.html discusses the initial quest and https://venus-ardens.org/blogpost82-Love-Magic-and-Intent-a-Wedding discusses where I got for the wedding. The software is at https://salsa.debian.org/hartmans/djcli but it's not yet mature enough that it's likely to be useful to anyone else. (And I'll admit it's a niche thing anyway) I've kept working on it and learning a lot more about music and mixing. I don't get much of a chance to perform live though, and that's lots of fun. I was considering submitting an informal event to see if we could get some folks together at debconf to have fun and dance. I guess at one level I could always submit the event and the organizers could decide whether to approve it or not, but it is work to put something like that together. So before I submit something I want to see if people would be interested and make sure I wouldn't be stepping on anyone else's toes. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
