Re: easiest way to run a qcow2 image purely in the text console
On 4/28/24 15:43, Nick Gawronski wrote: Hi, Why do you say that it has nothing to do with accessibility as all of the documentation I can locate on kvm is based on using the graphical interfaces and for users who just want to do text based virtualization on linux I think more information is needed? I have done virtualization on windows before so do understand the concepts but am trying to use kvm in a purely text based mode and finding good tutorials on doing this currently I am unable to do so. This is why I am suggesting on some information in the wiki on this topic like what packages are the most accessible to install both for the graphical desktop and the text based interface. Nick Gawronski On 4/28/2024 8:35 AM, john doe wrote: On 4/28/24 06:17, Nick Gawronski wrote: Hi, So to provide this qcow2 image with 4 gigs of ram and all processor cores how would I run kvm and if I ever wanted to just reinstall fedora server into this qcow2 image and have an iso image how do I do this using only the command line as I am unable to locate any good documentation on doing this perhaps something to add to the accessibility wiki page for users who want to test either the same processor type or run an emulator like arm64 on a x64 based system? Nick Your question has nothing to do with accessibility but you need to familiarize yourself with virtualisation/HW acceleration. I would create a new thread on the debian-user mailing list! ;^) -- John Doe A few pointers: - Qemu/VB are machine emulators - KVM or HAXM on windows are HD accelerators - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6710555/how-to-use-qemu-to-run-a-non-gui-os-on-the-terminal The last point is the first hit found while googling! HTH. P.S. The wiki is for anyone to edit. P.S.2 I strongly suggest you to move this to the debian-user mailing list. -- John Doe
Re: easiest way to run a qcow2 image purely in the text console
On 4/28/24 06:17, Nick Gawronski wrote: Hi, So to provide this qcow2 image with 4 gigs of ram and all processor cores how would I run kvm and if I ever wanted to just reinstall fedora server into this qcow2 image and have an iso image how do I do this using only the command line as I am unable to locate any good documentation on doing this perhaps something to add to the accessibility wiki page for users who want to test either the same processor type or run an emulator like arm64 on a x64 based system? Nick Your question has nothing to do with accessibility but you need to familiarize yourself with virtualisation/HW acceleration. I would create a new thread on the debian-user mailing list! ;^) -- John Doe
Re: I Am Trying to File A Bug?
On 2/1/24 07:17, Paul Gevers wrote: Hi, On 01-02-2024 04:51, Chime Hart wrote: Hi All: As I was working through reportbug, it asks me for tags? Well, no matter how I write them, it says "invalid entry" In the man-page it either shows --T or -T= Maybe instead of a cryptic "invalid entry" it would be more helpful mentioning what items are missing. Thanks so much in advance Chime If you go to https://bugs.debian.org you get redirected to https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ which has this: Valid tags are patch, wontfix, moreinfo, unreproducible, help, security, upstream, pending, confirmed, ipv6, lfs, d-i, l10n, newcomer, a11y, ftbfs, fixed-upstream, fixed, fixed-in-experimental, potato, woody, sarge, etch, lenny, squeeze, wheezy, jessie, stretch, buster, bullseye, bookworm, trixie, forky, sid, experimental, sarge-ignore, etch-ignore, lenny-ignore, squeeze-ignore, wheezy-ignore, jessie-ignore, stretch-ignore, buster-ignore, bullseye-ignore, bookworm-ignore, trixie-ignore forky-ignore . If you don't want to provide a tag, you can run reportbug with --no-tags-menu You can also send a bugreport directly via e-mail, provided that you use the correct formatting! -- John Doe
Re: Accessible terminal output
On 1/30/24 06:22, Christian Schoepplein wrote: On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 08:40:07AM -0700, Sam Hartman wrote: Neils, I think what you are about to find is that individual preference generally dominates accessibility concerns here. Yes. All what I wrote is the prefered way I like to work because it is the most simplest way for me. This does not mean, and thats what I also wrote, that others do also like work this way. Its all a matter of personal taste. What sighted PPLs see first (in this case at the top of your answer) is what they will pick up on! ;^) -- John Doe
Re: Accessible terminal output
On 1/29/24 14:50, Niels Thykier wrote: Christian Schoepplein: Hi Nils, [...] Piping output into a pager is very uncomfortable for screen reader users IMHO. [...] Ciao, Schoepp Thanks for the hint, Schoepp. This sounds like the screen reader optimized output mode should imply disabling the automatic pager feature. For context, the default behavior of my tool is to pipe output to a pager if and only if 1) requested otherwise via an option such as the --no-pager option and 2) the output stream is a identified as a terminal. The latter means if you explicitly pipe to another program or file, the automatic pager feature is disabled as well. Accordingly, the your `| vim -` trick would have worked. That said, I still want better defaults where I can reasonably provide them. For the same reason, I have logic to rewrite man page references into links to https://manpages.debian.org/page.section, because my understanding was that manpages were rather difficult for users of screen readers as well. The above statement is way to general and only reflect one PPL. Manpages that are using the `man` utility are perfectly accessible along with their online counterpart! ;^) The best way to help someone is when issues are reported to you -- John Doe
OT: Re: Accessible terminal output
On 1/28/24 22:09, Sébastien Hinderer wrote: john doe (2024/01/28 21:33 +0100): Generaly speaking, what is machine readable is screenreader friendly (JSON/YAML). To me, it's more importent to have an extensive documentation explaning what a text file output contains than spending time on getting the "correct" output. I'd say it also depends on the kind of output. For example, I am very happy with the currentoutput of `git status` and I am not sure I wouldwant it to be in any structured format like JSON or YAML. Not to say these formats are a bad idea in general, but rather that they may not always be the best choice. With regard to git status, you are talking about human readable output while I'm talking about machine readable output (porcelain)! ;^) Anyway, the OP will choose what is best in his case! -- John Doe
Re: Accessible terminal output
On 1/27/24 22:18, Niels Thykier wrote: Hi, (Please CC on replies as I am not subscribed) I am looking for advice on how to make the terminal more accessible. The context is that I have a terminal program sub-commands. For some of them, I currently render an ASCII table sometimes with unstructured notes following it as legends for users without visual impairments - usually piped to a pager like less. Though this formatting is almost certainly not accessible to screen readers. I imagine it would be something like "PLUS, 50 times DASH, PLUS" and so on for the divider lines. I tried searching for terminal output accessibility and I cannot find any useful advice among the search results. So I thought I would ask here if you have any recommendations or guides I can follow. So far, IRC suggested to provide an alternative formats like CSV or HTML5, which the user could redirect to a file and then process in a tool of choice that would be accessible to them. Do you have any other recommendations for terminal output to support visually impaired? Like should the tool disable ANSI color and boldface output to avoid creating confusing output? Thanks for your support. Generaly speaking, what is machine readable is screenreader friendly (JSON/YAML). To me, it's more importent to have an extensive documentation explaning what a text file output contains than spending time on getting the "correct" output. -- John Doe
Re: orca 46 alpha
On 1/21/24 16:47, Sebastian Humenda wrote: Hi Samuel Samuel Thibault schrieb am 21.01.2024, 11:43 +0100: Sebastian Humenda, le dim. 21 janv. 2024 11:33:42 +0100, a ecrit: Samuel Thibault schrieb am 20.01.2024, 23:35 +0100: I have uploaded orca 46 alpha to experimental. It is notably said to have improved performance a lot through using cache.o Sounds great, thanks for giving the opportunity to test it out. Are there any minimum required software versions of involved components? Ah, yes, you need at-spi2-core >= 2.50, it's available as backport. It still doesn't start with the same debug output. I would probably need an What output are you seeing and which one are you expecting? -- John Doe
OT: Re: correction, installing Debian Bookworm and Can't find repository
On 12/16/23 08:49, K0LNY ?? wrote: This is a corrected version of my last message: If you correct something from a previous e-mail, please reply to this e-mail instead of creating a new one. You might also want to post to a more appropriate mailing list as this is not accessibility related. Now while installing on the Asus from the installation media, I'm at the point in the installer that it wants the mirror for the repository. I select US and then I've tried both the FTP and the HTTP options and neither work. How so? I've tried it with and without the Ethernet cable attached, because I successfully connected to my WIFI at the beginning of the install, and when the WIFI possibly failed, I tried the Ethernet. How is this possible? So I've been looking on-line and found a lot of entries for the sources.list file, but nothing for this part of the installer. What about the d-i's documentation. But it tells me I can edit the sources.list in console 4, but I don't know how to get to a console in the installer. Have a look at the d-i's documentation. If I could skip this part, I would, and just add a sources.list file later. You can definitely skip that part. I've tried to SSH into it, but that may not be possible during the install. d-i does support this capability. Or alternatively, does anyone know how I can skip this step for now? Advance mode/kernel boot parameter. -- John Doe
Re: Noobie questions about installing Debian for blind user
On 10/19/23 03:19, Susan Fowle wrote: My blind husband, Tom, has used very old Debian version Jessie on a very old machine for many years. Something finally broke or got corrupted. So we are planning to buy a new small computer (Kingdel Desktop Computer, Intel i5 CPU, 8GB RAM 256GB SSD, Intel HD Graphics 4400, 6xCOM RS232). 8GB of ram is quite low and RS232 quite unusual for a disktop even if you have a brail display that does not support USB. I have RS232 to USB converter for connecting my laptop to my server. In your case, the brail display would be my server. Given that you are sighted and "willing to help", my idea would be to buy a converter (EG: https://www.amazon.com/USB-Serial-Adapter-Prolific-Retention/dp/B000HVHDJ8) from somewhere it can be returned. You could connect it to your Windows laptop to see if you can have the brail display working that way, if it works, you could buy what ever laptop/desktop you desire and not be stuck with RS232! You can easily test everything on Windows to ensure that the converter approach would work, the NVDA screenreader can be use for this. We plan to install Debian 12 stable (or possibly 11 if that turns out to be better for our needs). Debian 11 is old stable. Tom wants Debian to boot into the console/terminal, and plans to use GUI only for occasional web browsing. He uses a DoubleTalk speech synthesizer and Speakup, plus an Alva braille terminal -- the hardware requires COM ports, hence our choice of computer. He uses Mutt for email and text browsers Lynx, Links, etc. For the sake of simplicity, I would suggest you to install with accessibility support enabled (will be Mate instead of Gnome). Links/w3m are fine but sometime Firefox or alike are useful as well. When Tom is more comfortable with Debian, he will be able to install Debian to his liking which is totaly possible without sighted help! ;^) What is the best way to start? debian-live-12.2.0-amd64-gnome.iso? Something else -- jigdo? Look at the debian accessibility wiki, there is no need for you to mess with jigdo! :) We have a copy on a flash drive of the data from the older machine (everything under /home). What is the best way of re-installing all this personal data after the system has been installed? The best way to have a stable Debian is by not copying stuff from an older set up to a new one, unless Tom wants to learn Debian the hardway. Are these types of questions answered on a web page somewhere, so I don't need to bother you good folks unless we run into problems? The debian-user mailing list or this very list are fine along with googling online. HTH and good luck. -- John Doe
OT: Re: lesson learned
On 8/23/23 17:24, Jude DaShiell wrote: I installed bookworm this time, so maybe that worked in earlier versions but may not necessarily work in bookworm. This is in response from [1], and the above. Assuming that there is realy something to be fixed, there is not enough infos to reproduce the potential issue. I also note that LVM has nothing to do with accessibility. Saying what you did to revert your supposedly broken system might be more useful than this garbage thread. Sadly, those kind of traffic will simply deter PPLs from trying something that works perfectly well in the context of LVM and screenreader. [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2023/08/msg00025.html -- John Doe
OT Re: Installing Voxin Eloquence Broke Speakup?
On 8/1/23 00:34, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Again, please refrain from polluting the list with OT stuff. -- John Doe
Re: What's the most Accessible Linux VM Server Platform?
On 7/12/23 19:09, Al Puzzuoli wrote: Do I understand correctly that there's not much of a performance hit if you run docker containers within a VM as opposed to on a bare metal host system? > You will need to ensure that the VM has enough resources to support the load of the containers. This might be out of scope for your use case but using LVM for the space that is allocated to the VM is worth having. -- John Doe
Re: What's the most Accessible Linux VM Server Platform?
On 7/9/23 18:21, Al Puzzuoli wrote: Thanks, I’ll start with KVM. I believe Proxmox is basically a web layer for KVM anyway so best to gain at least some familiarity with KVM before ever touching Proxmox I think. > I’m looking to run a mix of containers and virtual machines. I’ll likely end up containerizing many services such as Pihole and plex, but I’m not sure it makes sense to containerize other things, such as Windows domain controllers, etc. Look online on when to use microservices or VMS! With 'virsh', you can do among other things, LXC containers and full virtualisation. I'm not using VNC at all but it's possible to install a distro with serial redirection (console mode) or graphical mode! :) Note that graphical mode would require a accessible installer like the one in Debian. Docker/Podman are perfectly accessible via the command line! ;^) P.S. This question was already asked a while back you might also have insperation there! :) -- John Doe
OT: Re: Kernel Header Error
On 7/8/23 20:08, K0LNY wrote: Hey All, Please do not open new threads for same crap and try to answer questions from other threads. I tried to install a utility that is on github for accessing the TP-Link, and I ran the make install on it and got an error on the kernel headers, and I am looking for some suggestions for the steps to fix it. Here's the error message: and the solution as pointed out by Samuel! :) root@Asus701:~# cd rtl8812au root@Asus701:~/rtl8812au# make dkms_install reboot Looking online, it looks like they are already prebuild *.deb PKG for what you want. -- John Doe
Re: ifconfig
On 7/7/23 23:53, K0LNY wrote: Anyone know why the ifconfig command does not work on my Debian 32 bit on my Asus? I've tried it as root and not as root, it just says command not found. To get the default route you should use the recommended tool the 'iptools' package. $ ip addr show $ ip r When the wireless is not working/connected, try to access the GUI at the 'default' route. In other words, give us the output of the two provided CMDs. -- John Doe
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Which softwares to install ?
On 6/27/23 23:31, Samuel Thibault wrote: LibreFaso, le mar. 27 juin 2023 18:42:22 +, a ecrit: Anyway, I recently met one guy of Hypra and he told me that their layer of accessibility (which constitutes the core of what they bring to their users) is on debian.hypra.fr I'd like to put it on the computer but I don't understand at all how to. Should I just add this URL on the sources.list ? Yes. Look online on how to interact with 'sources.list' or contact them directly as you might need gpg keys! -- John Doe
OT: Re: Tasksel
On 6/13/23 19:50, David Hoff Jr wrote: Please keep this list on topick. -- John Doe
OT: Re: VLC In The CLI
On 6/5/23 06:37, K0LNY wrote: Hello Group, I'm studying on-line on how to set up VLC to stream to icecast in my computer running Debian 11.7, no GUI. What I'm reading on-line states that it is difficult to configure the stream source in VLC from a CLI. Has anyone ever done this? I have icecast set up I believe, but now I need to send the stream to it. Icecast is most commonly used, but I believe there are other tools. I'm wanting to send the audio from the line-in jack on the computer. Can you stop polluting the list, this is clearly OT. -- John Doe
OT: Re: to root or not to root
On 6/2/23 05:41, K0LNY wrote: Hi, I'm going to try a CLI install again on my Asus i386 machine, this time, on an 8 GB SD card, so it will be easier to make an image of, and it's easier to expand an FS than it is to shrink one. So in my last install, I set it up without a root, and made the one user the only one. I'm still trying to figure out which is best. I noticed that su - did not work for me, I had to do sudo su -. This is expected, see the Debian's docs. I don't know if this was because I didn't install a root account. You are answering your own question. ;^) -- John Doe
Re: How to Install Basic Debian CLI System with Networking and screen reader
On 5/29/23 16:07, K0LNY wrote: Not only that, then what is the list for if we can't ask questions? The other choice is read, read, read. I do look on-line for answers, for things I did know, but forgot, often my answer is in the search results page, and I don't even have to open the link. But a list is for questions by people who would like assistance, not admonishment. I could not agree more with you, the point I'm trying to make is that there are so few PPLs working on accessibility (I'm not including myself), that it's a waste of time for everyone when questions have been asked so many times already on this very mailing list (mind the archive). I'm clearly frustrated that I have to rebash the same stuff all the time! :) This is my last e-mail on this. -- John Doe
Re: Raspi-Config
On 5/29/23 16:48, K0LNY wrote: Howdy, I thought I'd toy with raspi-config on my Debian 11.7 CLI install. I first installed the oldest one, and the install failed because it was looking for parted. So I installed parted, and had to then do apt --fix-broken install Then I installed the raspi-config deb file and it works like it does on the raspberry pi. This is not supported by Debian by any means. -- John Doe
Re: How to Install Basic Debian CLI System with Networking and screen reader
On 5/29/23 04:33, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: I've had it work that way Martin, but it's not working for Glenn. I also don't understand what you mean by "I start the installer with medium priority" - I've never seen a choice. It's there in the advance mode, mind the accessibility wiki! It should be an explicit choice to have a configured Debian Command Line Interface (CLI) Text Mode. At the prompt that ask for what package to install, select the one without DE. Instead of ranting/complaining, I would suggest you to read the extensive Debian's doc. -- John Doe
Re: Connect To WIFI In The CLI
On 5/28/23 18:55, K0LNY wrote: Hi Group, If anyone can help, I suppose you can respond off-list, since I'm sure some here find this trivial, but I find some things difficult with some CLI stuff, that is otherwise simple in a GUI. I've been struggling with trying to get the WIFI up and going in this Asus ePC. I put my wpa_supplicant.conf file that I use on all my Linux machines on a thumb drive and mounted it on the Asus and copied it into /etc and into /etc/wpa_supplicant/. I ran wpa_supplicant and it did all the first time run information. During the Debian 11 install, it connected to WIFI, but it wasn't connected any more after the first restart. What difference(s) do you see in the installer log and in the installed system? My device is wlp1s0. I ran sudo ip link set dev wlp1s0 up Then I did: wpa_supplicant -sudo c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -i wlp1s0 It recognized the SSID I had in my wpa_supplicant.conf file, like it touched the router, but isn't on-line. What do you see in the router? then I did sudo dhclient wlp1s0 It gave a bunch of information, but it still has no ip address. That would not hurt to show us those informations! :) It doesn't seem like it should be this difficult. So as asking for help! -- John Doe
Re: trouble mounting installation media error
On 5/28/23 19:22, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Ventoy is unsurpassed at ease of making bootable disks, just copy the iso to the partition that is for the iso files, it's empty at the start. Reboot and you will see a screen to pick which iso you want to boot with. I don't know if this is accessible or not. dd under Linux is always the way to go to make USB sticks from iso files: The cp utility is the new way to go! :) -- John Doe
Re: removing desktop
On 5/27/23 17:44, K0LNY wrote: Hi All, Well last night was an exercise in futility. I successfully copied my 32 GB SD card to another, and it booted just like the original. So then I did the research and used systemctl to disable the GUI boot. Then I had to remove the desktops, it showed two mates and one Gnome, the flashback metacity version. Using apt remove --purge, I got rid of the Gnome, but not the mate completely. After exhaustive researching, I did the apt remove --purge with mate-* and that finally got rid of it. I thought tasksel was there for this purpose. :) All this is so I can install OMV on it. I would start from scratch! ;^) But after all that, rebooting, doing apt clean and searching for any remainder of a desktop, OMV says there is still a desktop installed. My apt remove actions even removed the /usr/share/xsessions folder. How is OMV ensuring that a DE is installed? So now I'm going to mark that up as a learning session and I'm now working on installing Debian server on this i386 computer. I downloaded Debian 11.7 net install ISO, and now I'm trying to get speech so I can install it on the same SD card. I thought I'd let folks know since I did get some info on using DD when I started this. I do not understand how this could benefit the list. -- John Doe
Re: Debian Install With Speech
On 5/27/23 18:24, K0LNY wrote: Howdy All, I am not having luck with getting the Debian installer to speak. I am booting to: debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso from: Index of /debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd Did you checksum the iso file to ensure that it is not corrupted? and I have tried alt S, S alone, and down arrowing 5 times and enter, and down arrowing 4 times and enter. These are things I read that are supposed to put it into a talking installer. Does this version not have a talking installer? What did you read about the supported images, on the Debian accessibility wiki this is clearly stated as being supported. What is your set up? -- John Doe
Re: Installing Open Media Vault
On 5/24/23 20:43, K0LNY wrote: When I boot up the OMV in a VM, all I get is clicking when I type, but I am trying the default username/password, and in case I'm in a CLI, I've tried speaker test with no results. Yes, as Samuel has pointed out, there is no accessibility support in Debian images provided by OMV. So with no feedback, it is a no-go in a VM. Install a Debian VM and the OVM pkg:) This is my last e-mail to this thread as I do not see this going anywhere. -- John Doe
Re: Installing Open Media Vault
On 5/24/23 16:29, K0LNY wrote: That was going to be my next step, installing it on my current Debian system. Googling is your friend [1]. installing espeak and Which is what Debian has per default if you install with accessibility. all, but I have it in a VM, and it's IP address isn't yet showing up. I do not understand why a VM without IP addressing is an issue. I also want to point out that you have the CLI available, so what ever capability you need from OMV is better accessible without even an accessible GUI! :) [1] https://docs.openmediavault.org/en/latest/installation/on_debian.html -- John Doe
Re: Installing Open Media Vault
On 5/23/23 19:12, Jason White wrote: On 22/5/23 17:29, K0LNY wrote: Is it possible that OMV has no accessibility in it? Or is there something else in the Debian installer that brings up TTS? Having been on this and other Linux-related mailing lists for a long time, I notice a recurring pattern 1. Someone tries a little-known Linux distribution that most of us have never heard of. 2. It turns out not to be accessible (that is, the screen reader doesn't work, or it does work and the desktop environment is inaccessible). Conclusion: accessibility doesn't happen by accident. If a distribution doesn't mention screen reader support on its Web site, or if there is no established community of screen reader users working with that distribution, then it's very likely to be inaccessible. If it is accessible, you're very lucky indeed. This is in two-folds: - It's doable to administer OMV - Having a accessible GUI is something else! :) An alternative would be to install Debian and install the OMV pkg! :) -- John Doe
Re: Debian Package Update Menu?
On 4/21/23 16:49, Chime Hart wrote: Hi All: In the past while running upgrades in SID, if there were an item where I needed to choose among installing a maintainers version or keeping mine, the menu showed letter combinations-and-explained what would happen. Well, now the menu is numeric-and-I am not sure actually typing 1 of these numbers will do any good. Here is what I heard Setting up grub-efi-amd64-bin (2.06-11) ... Setting up grub2-common (2.06-11) ... Setting up grub-efi-amd64 (2.06-11) ... Configuring grub-efi-amd64 -- A new version (/tmp/grub.BX3nL13UF5) of configuration file /etc/default/grub is available, but the version installed currently has been locally modified. 1. install the package maintainer's version 3. show the differences between the versions 5. show a 3-way difference between available versions 7. start a new shell to examine the situation 2. keep the local version currently installed 4. show a side-by-side difference between the versions 6. do a 3-way merge between available versions What do you want to do about modified configuration file grub? Back again live: I wanted to keep my own, number 2 was highlighted, so I mashed enter. But even those numbers were in a lopsided order. Please The DEBIAN_FRONTEND to use is up to you! :) -- John Doe
Re: bookworm scripts work in mate-terminal and fail in console
On 4/13/23 12:01, Jude DaShiell wrote: The bookworm packages selection for this system was desktop environment; mate, and standard utilities. Multimedia scripts I have work fine in mate-terminal and remain silent when run in console with espeakup. Had I only installed mate and standard utilities would this problem not exist? Without seeing the SCR in question, it's impossible to tell. Would be nice if you could stop with that kind of questions and stay on topick. -- John Doe
Re: eMail Server On Debian
On 3/16/23 19:18, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: Hi, I'm not sure yet, but it appears that my eMail provider may no longer be supporting POP3 mail. I have my own domain that I bought from them, and I get my eMail from them too. I'm wondering about setting up an eMail server here at home using my domain to have a POP3 server. I am in the middle of a Youtube where this guy is setting up an eMail server called Cyber Panel It is from a sighted perspective, so I don't know if it is accessible. Has anyone here ever done this, and are there any good tutorials you recommend? If I may, use a hosted service. To answer your question, you can use Postfix, ClamAV, Amavis, Dovecot and what ever else you want as long as you do not use a pannel! -- John Doe
Re: debian bookworm mate clipboard
On 3/16/23 19:00, Jude DaShiell wrote: What is already on the default install or what utility should I download to run a clipboard in mate with orca? If you were to go online, you would see that Orca can interact with the clipboard along with xclip. Please refrain from polluting the list with non-accessibility questions! -- John Doe
Re: Debian Installer Bookworm Alpha 2 release
On 3/8/23 07:11, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
I'll be glad to do that, Samuel.
Tonight I got a system installed, but again it will not allow me to log in
How are you installing it/What step are you doing?
with my user name.
I have to log in as root then su to my user name. But then I cannot start X
Use su to change the PWD ('passwd') of your regular user.
with my user account.
Please tell me exactly what log files and their locations you will need.
If you look in the Debian documentation for the installer you'wll see
that the installer logs are located in '/var/log/installer'.
This is also in the list archive.
files. I guess I could log into pastebin and put the logs up there. This
list doesn't accept small log attachments does it?
I would send a tarball through the list ('tar -xf
')
I can certainly understand how difficult it is to do things remotely. I was
To me the issue is that Samuel is always repeting himself by having to
ask the same things over and over again!
--
John Doe
Re: KVM And Ubuntu-Mate
On 2/10/23 06:04, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: Hi Group, I wonder if anyone has tried to install Ubuntu-Mate into a VM using KVM, and done it successfully. I first tried installing the latest Ubuntu-Mate into an older Ubuntu-Mate, and I got no feedback, I couldn't bring up Orca in the install from ISO in KVM. I also tried an older download from the Ubuntu-Mate site, that is supported until 2025, and it did not speak either. I checked the KVM settings, and sound is enabled, in fact I installed windows 10 into the same KVM, and the audio worked there, but because I hadn't installed special KVM tools for installing windows 10, it was incredibly slow, so I removed windows 10. So I know that audio should work for the Ubuntu-Mate, but it wasn't there. I tried the usual super alt + S, and I tried control S, and I tried orca in the alt F2 window. Is there a way to insert the calling up of Orca into the KVM new install? How did you install the VM if you did not have any sound from the get go? A sound card supported by Windows does not mean that it's supported by linux! do you get any sound at all in the VM? -- John Doe
Re: Hypervisors
On 1/2/23 06:42, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: Hi All, Can anyone recommend a CLI based hypervisor for Debian, that works with Speakup? Libvirt/qemu-kvm. -- John Doe
Re: Regression: Pipewire 0.63 breaks emacspeak-espeak-server
On 12/30/22 22:35, Sam Hartman wrote: To reproduce: * install pipewire, pipewire-pulse, wireplumber * install emacspeak-espeak-server and emacspeak * Select espeak when debconf asks how you want speech * Confirm your VM has audio at all * create a user in the audio group * su to that user * run emacspeak Expected behavior: almost all emacs commands speak Observed behavior: speech stops after the initialespeak version Emacspeak directly uses the espeak-ng library in audio playback mode. In that mode, espeak-ng uses pcaudiolib for audio output. If you take a look at create_audio_device_object in pcaudiolib's src/audio.c, on a linux-like platform it * First tries to create a pulse audio object * Then tries to create an alsa audio object going up one level, libespeak-ng stores the audio object it is using in the my_audio variable in the library. I confirmed in the tclsh process for the emacspeak-espeak server that my_audio pointed to a pulse audio object (based on the function pointers in the object). So, it looks like emacspeak's espeak speech server is using the pulse protocol to communicate ultimately with pipewire. (I've also confirmed by setting a break point on pulseaudio_is_available that libespeak-ng is setting up a pulse object when called say by the espeak-ng command line application). The espeak-ng command line application does appear to work fine. However, there's a big difference between how emacspeak uses espeak and how espeak-ng's command line works. Emacspeak is going to allow the audio object to become completely empty (underflow condition) regularly and will then write to the object. That's because emacspeak willgenerate speech in response to ongoing realtime interactions, where as espeak-ng's CLI will generate all the speech it's going to generate until it is done and then never generate audio. What I could use help with is how to debug what's going on from here. Why isn't it speaking when it stops speaking. So, I'm looking for ways to debug the state of the stream within pipewire or pipewire-pulse, or something like that. I would increase the log verbosity to debugging. Or alternatively to look at what changed between 0.59 and 0.63 related Basically you need to 'git diff' with a 'revision' and. Git 'blame' might also be useful. to handling pulse streams, particularly pulse streams that might underflow. I've generally found pipewire upstream to be helpful, and I'm happy to engage, but I'd love to have something more well-formed than what I have to day before doing that. Any help on where to go next would be appreciated. Sam, who is this Simon you are talking about? It's unclear to me who did what (are you acting as a proxy) with regard to isolate the issue and try to troubleshoot it. -- John Doe
Re: BullsEye Mate Auto Login
On 12/2/22 22:50, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: Hi, I did some looking on-line for the answer, because in Mate, I could not find the login options, like I've done with Ubuntu. I want the system to auto login to the desktop. What I found stated to edit a couple lines in the file: URL of what you've found would be useful. /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf Assuming that it's not working, we will need to see that modified file. -- John Doe
Re: installing Debian From Working Debian
On 12/1/22 03:19, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: I am hoping someone here will know this. I'm wondering if there is a way to install a clean install of Debian x86, same bullseye version that is on the machine, to an external drive, so I can boot to it? I installed this one from DVD images on a thumb drive, but I'd rather install something that does not point to the drive for its repository after the installation. Thanks. Glenn Have you looked at Google! -- John Doe
Re: speech installation progress feedback?
On 11/13/22 22:07, Samuel Thibault wrote: Hello, During installation with speech enabled, when unpacking packages progress is only notified every 10%. For long installations that can be very long without any feedback. I can add a temporal condition, so that one gets e.g. feedback every minute or something like that. What do people feel should be the delay? Getting feedback every second would be very spammy, and 10m would be very long. Should we e.g. use 1m? More? Less? Neat feature, I'm fine with how it is now but that would be lovely if that value could be customisable! -- John Doe
Re: Skipping disk erase on Debian text-based installation
On 11/3/22 15:55, Samuel Thibault wrote: jordan, le jeu. 03 nov. 2022 14:49:51 +, a ecrit: as far as I know, you could manually select options in the installer, but as I understand it goes through them on its own, the only chance I have had to go through them manually was because of an error You can also come back to the main menu with the '<' answer. Then you can change the question level down, and come back to the disk management and there you'll get the extra questions. To expend on Samuel's answer, you can also install Debian in advance mode if you need to 'preseed' some stepts or set specific default values for some questions. -- John Doe
Re: Virus question
On 10/28/22 00:30, David Hoff Jr wrote: I have some sort of a virus. While installing Debian 11.5, with the text installer at the point in the installer where it asks me to choose a Debian mirror, I am given the choice to choose between 1 of 2 Devuan Linux sites instead. I tried fresh downloads of both the 32 and 64 bit version, as well as normal and unofficial downloads ISO's. All downloads came from the cdimage.debian.org/cdimage web site. I use the DD command to install the ISO's to a USB flash drive. It also now appears that the USB flash drives are also possibly infected. Are there any known virus's which may do this and if so what do they affect and how to get rid of them? Looks like you are mixing Devuan and Debian! Assuming that you want help, please provide the URI used. -- John Doe
Re: webkit and the orca screen reader
On 10/26/22 13:14, Jordan Livesey wrote: hello everyone, due to google chrome having issues with orca, or any chromium based browser for that matter, where orca is reading lines Can you expend on the issue(s) you are having? regardless of your orca settings, I have decided to try a webkit based browser if any are for linux Google is your friend. , how accessible is webkit with orca? I would say give it a go, what will be good enough for me might not be for you! -- John Doe
Re: Why Was this Interactive Dialogue Changed?
On 9/19/2022 3:41 PM, Chime Hart wrote: Hi All: Here in Debian SID, this morning like almost all mornings, I run an update/upgrade. Well, the following somewhat confusing dialogue was heard: Configuring grub-efi-amd64 -- A new version (/tmp/grub.5v5YFFfMZW) of configuration file /etc/default/grub is available, but the version installed currently has been locally modified. 1. install the package maintainer's version 3. show the differences between the versions 5. show a 3-way difference between available versions 7. start a new shell to examine the situation 2. keep the local version currently installed 4. show a side-by-side difference between the versions 6. do a 3-way merge between available versions What do you want to do about modified configuration file grub? What do you want to do about modified configuration file grub? Back > I've seen this menu before (Bullseye), however not for this pkg in particular. -- John Doe
Re: Videocall hearing the voice of Orca
Answering publicly to this e-mail. On 9/7/2022 4:01 PM, Frank Carmickle wrote: How can I ensure that I'm the only one that will hear Orca and prevent other persons in the call from hearing it? If you are listening to Orca in headphones and you are still having this issue, you may have the output of the sound device captured in some way. I'm already doing that but it's a micro/headphone combo, so that might be the issue. For now the workaround is to not use the computer while I'm talking! Thanks all for the feedback. -- John Doe
Videocall hearing the voice of Orca
Hello all, I use Orca to do some videocalling, the issue that I'm having is that voice of Orca is also audible at the other end. How can I ensure that I'm the only one that will hear Orca and prevent other persons in the call from hearing it? -- John Doe
Re: repository
On 9/4/2022 5:58 AM, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: Hi All, Other than using apt-add-repository, and a long string, is there a way to get this install to also go out and update from the web? I installed from a DVD image on USB and the installer didn't go through the usual select a mirror options. I don't know that this is an option in taskselect or whatever it is that I ran for the installer options. > I do not understand what you are asking. Please move this to the debian-user list. -- John Doe
Re: Cannot Connect To WIFI
On 9/3/2022 9:21 PM, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: In this case I am, if I can get connected, I may try to find a light desktop. > Did you follow the "Frank Carmickle "'s recommendations? Answering to this list is enough, bottom posting is a must, not stripping to what you are answering to is best appreciated and more readable -- John Doe
Re: Cannot Connect To WIFI
On 9/3/2022 7:08 PM, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: Hi Jason, I'm just trying to connect the computer to the network. I found a lot of pages that talk about network manager, and all commands like nmcli result in command not found. > It sounds like you do not have NM installed, how did you install Debian? I'm questioning why you need NM in the first place. You might gain better traction on the debian-user mailing list as this question is unrelated to accessibility. -- John Doe
Re: how to set other languageson speakup and espeak
On 8/30/2022 6:59 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Marcel Roșca, le mar. 30 août 2022 08:06:31 +0300, a ecrit: Well thanks very much. Could you update me if anything changes? That will be months from now unfortunately, I'm afraid I won't be able to remember :) To ask for ETA/progress, this list is a good place to do so. Depending on what you need, the utility 'more' works the other way around than the 'less' utility. -- John Doe
Re: debian images to include non-free firmwares?
On 8/27/2022 4:40 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Hello, An on-going vote is happening to decide whether to include non-free firmwares on the official Debian images: https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003 One of the arguments mentioned in favour of doing so was to fix the accessibility issue when the hardware sound board needs a firmware to work at all. To me [1] makes perfect sense. [1] https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003#textb -- John Doe
OT, Re: Which softwares to install ?
On 7/18/2022 5:06 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: There are places on the Internet where it says that since Debian is the premier accessible distribution, the debian-accessibility list is the default location to access accessibility information. Assuming that this is the case, this is a Debian accessibility mailing list as indicated in the e-mail addr. If this person 'Didier Spaier' want to promote himself, he should at least stop hijacking threads and use 'OT' in the subject line. -- John Doe
Re: Which softwares to install ?
On 7/18/2022 8:02 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Didier Spaier, le lun. 18 juil. 2022 02:02:05 +0200, a ecrit: I just uploaded an ISO with it, for who has some time to kill: https://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-15.0/iso/ Can you please just stop this kind of advertisement coming out of the blue? Samuel I concur with Samuel, using your e-mail address to promote yourself is more than enough. -- John Doe
Re: Which softwares to install ?
On 7/15/2022 10:27 PM, LibreFaso wrote: Ok, so I installed a few laptops. But I notice that neither Grub not the login page seem to be accessible, that may be a problem if the kids are to use the computers alone. Is there a solution to that problem ? Grub is not accessible but what logging page are you talking about? Also, there are two installations problem that I encountered. They're not directly accessibility problems, but maybe someone here still has a solution ? Second is about the second Macbook whose screen is broken; imho it's not that much a problem for blind kids >>>> Samuel > Could be if the screen leaks or they could cut themself if they put their fingers on the screen. -- John Doe
Re: new computer and debian-bullseye
On 6/22/2022 1:50 AM, jdash...@panix.com wrote: Well, I told thinkpenguin to install with speech and how to do that and apparently my instructions were not followed. This computer cost a large chunk of cheese too. Maybe tomorrow we can correct the bios so the dvd boots ahead of nvme and then I can clean this mess. If the 'boot priority' can be changed I would suggest to set the 'USB booting' before the HD. -- John Doe
Re: new computer and debian-bullseye
On 6/21/2022 10:06 AM, jdash...@panix.com wrote: I got a penguin pro 11 to replace a dead amd system. Having installed debian before I usually only select standard utilities in package selections. That option is no longer available. How did you install Debian? I put espeak-ng and espeakup and dependencies on the system and enabled them. The This suggest that you did not 'Install Debian with speech'. problem I have is cinnamon. How can I remove cinnamon the debian desktop environment mozilla thunderbird and retain a standard utilities environment? You can 'purge' any pkgs that you do not need. Instead of purging, I would suggest reinstalling from scratch. -- John Doe
Re: Which softwares to install ?
On 6/15/2022 10:54 PM, LibreFaso wrote: Hi all ! I'm preparing a (very small) bunch of old computers for the ABPAM kids in Ouagadougou (ETA unknown, alas). But I don't know what to put on them in addition to Orca, Compiz and eSpeak. There are many softwares in the Debian-accessibility category, should I install them all ?I don't want to clutter the computers nor confuse the kids, they use NVDA and JAWS but never had a Debian machine before. The guy who's supposed to teach them is a quite competent Linux user, so he may probably be able to install packages on site (if he can find enough bandwidth), but it's probably better if the computers are ready when I send them. Not realy an answer but you could add the accessibility pkgs on a USB key (1) and send that key with the computers. 1) https://linoxide.com/install-debian-packages-offline/ -- John Doe
Re: I need a new brltty 6.4 package for Debian Bookworm.
On 4/28/2022 1:02 PM, John J. Boyer wrote: Hello, For some time brltty has been becoming unresponsive on mutt. Just now it became unresponsive on the title of a book I was trying to download from Bookshare. In both cases, when I went to a console where root was loggee in and pressed up arrow brltty was restarted. there is also the problem that brltty does not do word wrap. This is a regression from all previous Debian versions. If making a new package from the current brltty repository is too much work, what can I do to solve these problems? I would build it from source. If I recall correctly, you already asked for this but never answered back to the list. Everyone is welcome to help. -- John Doe
Re: We need a new package for brltty 6.4.
On 4/3/2022 9:40 AM, John J. Boyer wrote: The current brlty does not do word wrap for contracted braille and it sometimes stops working for mutt and lynx. From the brltty list it appears that these problems have been fixed. Please provide a new package for brltty 6.4. Feel free to go ahead. -- John Doe
Re: Bug#1007106: reportbug: please make the meaning of the a11y tag clearer
On 3/14/2022 12:53 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Hello, Simon McVittie wrote: For instance, the bug that prompted me to open this one is a deadlock (or something) in interacting with Pipewire's PulseAudio-compatible server, which makes the game Minetest (among others) take a long time to start and have no sound. That certainly makes it hard to access normal functionality of minetest, but it doesn't seem like a bug that needs particular attention from accessibility experts... Oops, indeed! Can anyone suggest a wording that makes the intention of the tag clearer, without "othering" the people who particularly need bugs with this tag to be fixed? I've cc'd debian-accessibility in the hope that someone on that list has a better idea. Thanks for the notice! 1 a11y This bug is relevant to the accessibility of the package. Perhaps simply adding 1 a11y This bug is relevant to the accessibility of the package for disabled users. ? Or rephrasing to make it shorter: 1 a11y This bug affects disabled users. Or an alternative: 1 a11y This tag refers to peoples with disabilities Would be nice if native English speakers could help properly phrasing this! :) -- John Doe
Re: web-based, distributed, accessible applications (was LibreFaso)
On 3/6/2022 10:46 PM, Rich Morin wrote: On Mar 6, 2022, at 11:08, Jeffery Mewtamer wrote (offlist): Perhaps I'm biased on account of having learned to program under the Object-oriented paradigm, but I'm curious why you count that as a con of Python. tl; dr - personal preference, plus concurrency issues. I apologize for submitting such a long-winded (and arguably off-topic) response, but: - implementation choices can affect end results - my desired end result is more accessible apps By way of background, I started programming around 1970. I adopted modular and structured programming syntax as soon as I could, but never found object-oriented programming (OOP) to be all that compelling. I recognize that it can solve some problems quite nicely, but I think that it (and inheritance, in particular) can easily be overemphasized. Over the last decade, I've started using functional programming (FP) approaches and techniques, mostly in the context of Elixir. There are assorted things I like about FP, including the improved ease of reasoning about code. As Michael Feathers says: Object oriented programming makes code understandable by encapsulating moving parts. Functional programming makes code understandable by minimizing moving parts. I can't offer an attribution, but some wag observed (roughly) that: Structured programming answers the question "How did I get here?". Functional programming answers the question "How did my data get into this state?". Avoiding mutable state is a relatively minor benefit in most sequential programming, but it's a major benefit in concurrent programming. Controlling the sharing of mutable state seems to be the biggest challenge (and source of error) in writing thread-based code. The Python documentation, for example, lists a variety of ways to deal with this: Concurrent Execution https://docs.python.org/3/library/concurrency.html Note: Python offers process-based concurrency, but this appears to rely on OS processes, which have high overhead in both compute time and memory space. Also, it provides no safety net, such as the "supervision trees" that are used in Elixir to provide fail-soft behavior. So, it may not be a good fit for performance- and reliability-sensitive infrastructure (e.g., high-volume web servers). Bringing the discussion back to OOP, the practice of hiding implementation inside objects can hide unsafe thread behavior. José Valim, the creator of Elixir, ran into this problem as a member of the Rails core team. They were trying to make Rails thread-safe and had to dig into each library's code to unearth problematic practices. Indeed, this was his initial motivation in developing a new language. Distributed applications are inherently concurrent; also, current processor and system architecture trends both emphasize concurrency. So, using a programming model (objects combined with threads) which is inherently unsafe seems like a poor choice for this project. Totally on board with it being whitespace sensitive being a con, which makes it nearly unusable in my opinion, ... Whitespace sensitivity is obviously a problem for the visually impaired, but it can also set up any programmer for failure. Here are some examples, for consideration: It is harder but if you want to work with sited co-workers you need to work with identation. The advantage that I see in Python or alike languages, is that indentation is required and thus makes your code "working" and visually appealing at the same time! :) Or the code needs to be automatically prettyfied before committing to a CVS. adhering to conservative standards (PEP8, POSIX ... (splitting lines insmaller chunks, 80 chars max, use of whitespace)) takes more time to learn but makes the code more accessible for everyone. -- John Doe
Re: Having a d-i boot timeout for enabling speech?
On 2/28/2022 12:17 AM, Holger Wansing wrote: Hi, Samuel Thibault wrote (Sun, 13 Feb 2022 02:28:48 +0100): Users on the debian-accessibility mailing list reported that they found it very useful that the MacOS X installation image automatically starts a speech-enabled installer when the boot menu is left untouched for 10 seconds, so that blind people have really nothing more to do than plugging the installation USB key and turning the computer on to get a speaking installer (and notably in the case when the computer does not have a hardware speaker for beeping at the boot menu). It happens that syslinux supports this, the attached patch implements it. What do debian-boot people think about the idea? This seems to be only in interest for a limited group of people, however from my point of view the pro's beat the con's, so my vote would be "why not". Increasing the wait time to something like 60sec might not be a bad idea to avoid this being a distraction to the vast majority of users. Even better would be to aline with what other OSes are doing (docs welcome). For what it is worth, I could not find documentation backing up a wait time in other OSes. -- John Doe
Re: Thanks so Much
On 2/25/2022 5:15 AM, Sam Hartman wrote: It's been a while since I wrote in and said thanks, and I just wanted to report that I still appreciate the great work and things are (for the most part) working great. I'm using gnome/gdm, orca, and emacspeak, with pipewire for audio, and things work well. I'm assuming that this includes: web browsing, and e-mails? In other words, do you do you day to day stuff with Orca (buying on Amazon/online banking/...). Overall though, things just work and I can focus on writing code rather What languages do you speak? -- John Doe
Re: Debian Accessibility
On 2/13/2022 2:21 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Jude DaShiell, le sam. 12 févr. 2022 20:15:13 -0500, a ecrit: In osx 10.4 tiger I was told it was 10 seconds. Thanks! This looks quite small to me, I wonder if debian-boot will be fine with such quick enabling of speech synthesis. The good news is that syslinux already supports what we need, so (as often) the question is not really technical, but about discussing to find a compromise. It is strange, I'm not able to find the wait time macOS and Windows uses. Can anyone point to the doc where the wait time is explained for both OS? If we do such a change, that would be good to aline with the other OSes. -- John Doe
Re: changing the scheduling and niceness of espeakup and related processes
On 2/11/2022 8:05 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Nick Gawronski, le ven. 11 févr. 2022 12:48:31 -0600, a ecrit: Hi, In the service section there are lots of lines including an exec line that points to the espeakup binary. Do I add the nice value to that same line or somewhere else? You just add it in a new line in the same section. The recommended way to modify a service file is to drop that line in a file in /etc/systemd/.service. -- John Doe
Re: espeak improvements that I've noticed in testing
On 2/4/2022 5:21 PM, Jordan Livesey wrote: hello everyone, I have just upgraded from the current stable to testing to give it a spin and noticed something awesome, before, when you told orca to read no punctuation in settings, apparently periods were still read as dot, but now in the current state of testing periods are not read, for those who don't want to hear them if it gets annoying, I wonder what other improvements there are, hopefully accessibility of packages like virtualbox or gnome boxes as I want to test the unstable branch in a virtual machine An alternative to VB would be to use 'virt-manager' with qemu-kvm. -- John Doe
Re: Bug#1002976: installation-reports: Installer Does Not Provide Screen Reader in Accessible Installation
On 1/16/2022 1:02 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: How do I send the logs when if I send them the list will send me a rejection notice? I do not know as I do not have that msg infront of me. When you need help providing the errors you are getting is the only way for us to help you. -- John Doe
Re: Bug#1002976: installation-reports: Installer Does Not Provide Screen Reader in Accessible Installation
On 1/16/2022 7:46 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: John, Missing from this is the information that: The mini.iso that Samuel provided did not produce sound, unfortunately, I could not access Internet with this iso as I needed firmware to do so. The gall here is to provide the missing sound drivers in the installer, making internet irrelevent! Samuel said that he had the files he needed, and that ALSA might be working on a fix. Yes that is the idea but we need to work together on this. So the bottom line is that, the 'mini.iso' provided by Samuel is still not working. If this is the case, please do: - Install Debian with the iso that Samuel has provided - After installation tar up '/var/log/installer' (see below) - Attached that tarball to your next reply As I understand it, I need to install files from the Internet to have a working system that is capable of furnishing logs. I'm willing to try No -- the log that we need will always be available. It is media dependent if Debian is installed the logs are placed in '/var/log/installer' (this is all documented in one of your threads or online). again, but I have no Ethernet where I live, we have collective WiFi in this location and the WiFi needs firmware. Please note that we are testing the sound card here and internet is not required at all as d-i can install without a network connection. -- John Doe
Re: Bug#1002976: installation-reports: Installer Does Not Provide Screen Reader in Accessible Installation
Please read this e-mail to the bottom, in particular, Samuel's answer. On 1/16/2022 6:56 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: I'm just trying to make sure I notify everyone that should know about this, John. Thanks for all of your efforts. I've also joined the GRUB bug mailing list because now GRUB it seems is inserting a UEFI boot entry into my BIOS entry, forcing my computer to always boot into the last used operating system. This requires me to open up the computer case and push the reset button on the motherboard. I've been given instructions on how to change this by a friend but the instructions are so complicated, that I cannot figure them out. The same friend told me that this is what GRUB does now, but it's terribly inconvenient, especially for visually impaired users, both by having to open up the computer case but also changing the BIOS settings to what they were set to do the computer will boot from USB (or CD/DVD). It doesn't make sense to me that GRUB would override a user's BIOS settings. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know. Samuel said ALSA may have fixed the problem but I tried the latest daily firmware CD and I still don't get screen reader. I just don't understand how Buster could work so well but Bullseye not work at all. Best wishes to all and thanks for your combined efforts, David On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 04:11 john doe wrote: On 1/8/2022 9:50 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Hello, D.J.J. Ring, Jr., le lun. 03 janv. 2022 20:47:17 -0500, a ecrit: Here's the files from the Buster installation from /var/log/installer - attached. Ok, thanks! So the "ALC888: SKU not ready 0x0100" message was already there at the time. What's new in bullseye is snd_hda_intel :00:03.0: couldn't bind with audio component snd_hda_intel :00:03.0: HSW/BDW HD-audio HDMI/DP requires binding with gfx driver I remember having troubles with hda intel and the i915 graphic driver missing. Could you try this image which includes the i915 driver: https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/mini.iso (again all the logs are useful to provide since we don't know precisely what we want to look at) Just FYI (1). 1) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/01/msg00429.html -- John Doe -- John Doe
Re: Bug#1002976: installation-reports: Installer Does Not Provide Screen Reader in Accessible Installation
On 1/8/2022 9:50 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Hello, D.J.J. Ring, Jr., le lun. 03 janv. 2022 20:47:17 -0500, a ecrit: Here's the files from the Buster installation from /var/log/installer - attached. Ok, thanks! So the "ALC888: SKU not ready 0x0100" message was already there at the time. What's new in bullseye is snd_hda_intel :00:03.0: couldn't bind with audio component snd_hda_intel :00:03.0: HSW/BDW HD-audio HDMI/DP requires binding with gfx driver I remember having troubles with hda intel and the i915 graphic driver missing. Could you try this image which includes the i915 driver: https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/mini.iso (again all the logs are useful to provide since we don't know precisely what we want to look at) Just FYI (1). 1) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/01/msg00429.html -- John Doe
Re: Bad Behavior by GRUB
On 1/12/2022 5:16 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: My message to the debian-accessibility list got blocked so I'm sending this again as Didier had copied the list with his message to me. Right below my signature, I'll put the contents of some of the files I sent in case it's helpful, otherwise ignore that. I'm not sure this is debian-accessibility related, can you please take this elsewhere. -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 1/9/2022 7:57 PM, Jordan Livesey wrote: like I said, this account is impersonating me Than you should report it. As far as I can tell, both of the e-mails are coming from the same host. -- John Doe
Re: Feedback on Debian Installer
On 1/8/2022 7:09 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
john doe, le sam. 08 janv. 2022 18:56:39 +0100, a ecrit:
On 1/8/2022 6:46 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
john doe, le sam. 08 janv. 2022 18:34:14 +0100, a ecrit:
On 1/8/2022 3:10 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
- The infinit loop is way to quick to here what is said at every iteration.
Do you hear anything at all?
Yes I do here the message properly.
In the below infinitwhile loop, I can here the value of the echo
statement and I have a fiew seconds to react ('pressing enter' in this
case):
$ while :; do echo 'Please type enter to use this sound board'; sleep
3; done
In other words, 'speakup' will take about 2 minutes to speak the phrase.
I don't understand. How is it that it takes 2 minutes? The default
speech rate is not that slow.
My bad, I meant 'seconds' and not 'minutes' as seconds is the default
for sleep utility.
Ok :)
But then I don't understand why you say that the loop is too quick? In
the debian installer there is a 5 second delay after the echo.
I did retested and there is clearly a 5 seconds delay in the loop.
So I withdraw my comment.
Sorry for the noise.
--
John Doe
Re: Feedback on Debian Installer
On 1/8/2022 6:46 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
john doe, le sam. 08 janv. 2022 18:34:14 +0100, a ecrit:
On 1/8/2022 3:10 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
- The infinit loop is way to quick to here what is said at every iteration.
Do you hear anything at all?
Yes I do here the message properly.
In the below infinitwhile loop, I can here the value of the echo
statement and I have a fiew seconds to react ('pressing enter' in this
case):
$ while :; do echo 'Please type enter to use this sound board'; sleep
3; done
In other words, 'speakup' will take about 2 minutes to speak the phrase.
I don't understand. How is it that it takes 2 minutes? The default
speech rate is not that slow.
My bad, I meant 'seconds' and not 'minutes' as seconds is the default
for sleep utility.
--
John Doe
Re: Feedback on Debian Installer
On 1/8/2022 3:10 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
- The infinit loop is way to quick to here what is said at every iteration.
Do you hear anything at all?
Samuel
Yes I do here the message properly.
In the below infinitwhile loop, I can here the value of the echo
statement and I have a fiew seconds to react ('pressing enter' in this
case):
$ while :; do echo 'Please type enter to use this sound board'; sleep
3; done
In other words, 'speakup' will take about 2 minutes to speak the phrase.
Note that this e-mail is folded by my mailer.
--
John Doe
Feedback on Debian Installer
Debians, This is not a question/asking for help, simply me telling my findings/observations!!! :) While I was installing 'Debian With Speech' with qemu option '--soundhw all' to have multiple sound cards, I got: "Starting system log daemon: syslogd, klogd. amixer: Invalid command! amixer: Invalid command! haveged: command socket is listening at fd 3 Please wait while we probe your sound card(s)... Found 3 audio card(s), waiting for 1 more seconds for any other card... Found 3 audio card(s). Please type enter to use this sound board Please type enter to use this sound board Please type enter to use this sound board ^[[C^[[B^[[A^[[A^[[APlease type enter to use this sound board" - I have three sound cards detected but I have no clue which one is about to be selected. - The infinit loop is way to quick to here what is said at every iteration. Tested with latest stable gtk netboot image. -- John Doe
Re: Tutorial wasRe: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/31/2021 7:04 PM, James AUSTIN wrote: I am wondering if there are any tutorials available to help someone set a system such as the one being discussed up from scratch. Well I can access the command line from a GUI I am reliant upon a graphical user interface being pre-installed with orca before I can use the command line. Any pointers to tutorials to set this up from scratch from a blindness perspective it would be greatly appreciated. Debian makes it easy to follow the "regular" documentation and the accessibility wiki details accessibility features! You can simply 'Install Debian with speach' as usual but at the package selection prompt (see below) only enter '12' to only install 'Standard System Utilities': "Software selection -- At the moment, only the core of the system is installed. To tune the system to your needs, you can choose to install one or more of the following predefined collections of software. Choose software to install: 1: Debian desktop environment [*], 7: ... MATE, 2: ... GNOME [*], 8: ... LXDE, 3: ... Xfce,9: ... LXQt, 4: ... GNOME Flashback,10: web server, 5: ... KDE Plasma, 11: SSH server, 6: ... Cinnamon, 12: standard system utilities [*], Prompt: '?' for help, default=1 2 12> 12" There is no need to do that to get the desired result though, see 'Case B. Permanently booting to text mode (console mode)' at (1): - Graphical mode: 'systemctl set-default graphical.target' - Console mode: 'systemctl set-default multi-user.target' Use 'systemctl reboot' to reboot after having executed one or the above command. CTRL + alt + f1 to f6 should also bring to the console. 1) https://www.linuxuprising.com/2020/01/how-to-boot-to-console-text-mode-in.html -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/31/2021 4:42 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: John, You say in Mate we have other methods of configuring it. I'm talking about configuring it in console, even if MATE is installed. What is that way of configuring, In headless you can only use the console (see below). In headless, there is no need to use nmcli to configure the network, 'systemd-network' '/etc/network/interfaces' are some possibilities. -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/31/2021 4:12 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: The network-manager package should be installed by default to ANY installation of Debian perhaps even along with the basic system prior to software selection - so that using the undocumented "!" software selection (it should be documented right in the installer itself to produce a working command line networking system! In headless, there is no need to use nmcli to configure the network, 'systemd-network' '/etc/network/interfaces' are some possibilities. The utility is generaly pulled as an dependency. But your saying that even with network-manager package installed, it has to be configured to run! Not very accessible. Installation should install the package and at least ask the user if he wants it started, or better yet, start it and have it ready for use with the commands given to disable or stop it. This is already the case, nmcli is an dependency of Gnnome/ for example. For Mate, it makes less sense as you have other means to configure it. -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/31/2021 6:51 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Debian desperately needs a console network manager like Slackware's nmcli Actually, I have set up a bridge using 'nmcli' on Bullseye. -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/31/2021 2:37 AM, Mike Reiser wrote:
I have thought about switching to just working in a console, but I worry about
having to memorize a bunch of commands to do things. in a graphical program, I
can use keyboard commands to get around it mostly. Is this available in
console programs? Also, how can I have the documentation open in a web browser,
so I can read it while learning the commands in the console? Thanks,
Yes, shortcuts in a graphical env could be aliases in the console or
creating a shell function that does what you want.
In the terminal, there is no need to use a browser as all documentation
is available using the 'man' command.
Going online might be useful if you want to research a specific
question, have some example ...
To me those two envs are not antagonist, the only difference between the
CLI ('console') and a DE (desktop environment) is that with the CLI you
can do what ever you want by providing options to a utility.
In a grafical env, you are able to do what is made available but in
general you don't have access to all functionalities that the CLI offers.
The advantage of Linux is that when you are stuck in a DE you always
have the choise to fall back to the CLI!
A visual environment is sometime easier and more friendly when sited
help is needed.
What suits you best is what is importent.
--
John Doe
Re: Debian Accessibility
On 12/30/2021 8:37 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Hello John, There was a method - I believe a letter used during installation that provided logs, but I can't find how to get to it. I'll give Debian 11.1 one more try since I didn't know the switch or method which I did use in the past, I've just forgotten. Is it "a" for advanced? and then it is "a", something further down the installation, something tells you how to save and report bugs, I truly forget how to do what I did before. From what I understand, it looks like you're still able to install Debian even though sound is not working. If yes, the Debian installer logs file (1) will be located after installation in the directory '/var/log/installer'. P.S. I'm subscribe to the list, so no need to send the e-mail directly to me!!! :) 1) https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch06s01.en.html -- John Doe
Re: Debian Accessibility
On 30 Dec 2021, at 18:28, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: If I install with Debian 10 installation media, then change the /etc/apt/sources.list everything works as it should, my sound card is correctly detected, and I have screen reader during installation, I have screen reader when booting into Debian and I can use the MATE Graphical Environment as my user. Perfect. I can also upgrade to Debian 11 by changing my /etc/apt/sources.list files. But unfortunately for me the Debian 11.0 and current Debian 11.1 installation media just don't work for me. Every previous version since Woody in 2002 has worked just fine. You know the drill, give the comunity the log showing the issue (please refer to the wiki/accessibility page). -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/30/2021 5:50 PM, Jordan Livesey wrote: On 30 Dec 2021, at 16:49, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Please take this out of here. -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/12/2021 2:44 PM, john doe wrote: On 12/12/2021 10:59 AM, Pawel L. wrote: Hi, I think that the blind Linux community would benefit more from consolidating the knowledge of talented programmers and creating one, but maximally complete screen reader. I concur. I withdraw my comment. While it take sometime to get use to the idea of having multiple implementations of the same thing that is the strength and buty of Linux! The reason why I'm on Linux is because I can find my own way of getting things done. -- John Doe
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
On 12/12/2021 10:59 AM, Pawel L. wrote: Hi, I think that the blind Linux community would benefit more from consolidating the knowledge of talented programmers and creating one, but maximally complete screen reader. I concur. -- John Doe
Re: Bootable linux cd iso image with ssh daemon activated
On 12/9/2021 7:43 AM, Christian Schoepplein wrote: Hello, some weeks ago I've created a bootable linux cd ISO image which has ssh enabled and allows login remotely as root. Now I've created another image which has also included brltty. After booting this ISO you can still connect via ssh, but also a connected braille device should be detected and brltty should be started. Both ISOs can be written to a USB stick and used as bootmedia e.g. to have a powerfull rescue system. Because the ISOs are based on the well known SystemRescue CD many usefull tools are included out of the box: https://www.system-rescue.org The cd contains many usefull tools for different administrative tasks, see here for more infos about the included tools, but the programms which need a grafical environment will not be useable and speech support has to be configured manulay if wanted: https://www.system-rescue.org/System-tools/ If a package is missing it can be installed after booting the cd, the whole system is based on Arch linux. You can download the ISO files, with and without brltty included, here: https://download.schoeppi.net/systemrescuecd-custom/ After booting the cd your computer will get a dynamic ip address in your network. You can get this address e.g. by scanning your network or via your routers webinterface. If you know the address you can connect via ssh with In general, the router GUI interfaces are not screenreader friendly. That would be lovely if the DHCP client could send an hostname that is unic on the network making the hostname an alternative to using an IP. The last time I checked, the Debian Installer was using the ncurses interface for the SSH server which was unaccessible. -- John Doe
Re: Skipping disk erase on Debian text-based installation (fwd)
On 11/17/2021 7:55 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: Hello, Jordan Livesey, le mer. 17 nov. 2021 18:38:35 +, a ecrit: as far as I know during installation even if you manually partitioned your disk its still gonna format it so that debian can be installed Formatting is mandatory for the root filesystem indeed. Edhoari Setiyoso, le mer. 03 nov. 2021 07:24:28 +0700, a ecrit: I should've mention that this procedure happened when we want to do full disk encryption with LVM. This is about an encrypted LVM. That step is before actual disk partitionning and filesystem set up. Unless I'm missing something, one could preseed this question as kernel boot parameter: # When disk encryption is enabled, skip wiping the partitions beforehand. #d-i partman-auto-crypto/erase_disks boolean false -- John Doe
Re: Christian beliebers here using Debian
On 11/17/2021 5:48 PM, Ttl wrote: This not ok to mokkking that i am a christian Skickat från min iPhone 17 nov. 2021 kl. 17:31 skrev Sam Hartman : "Michael" == Michael A Ray writes: Michael> Surely, if God is omniscient and omnipresent, he will Michael> provide an accessible fairy story reader you can use to Michael> read the Bible. It's just a matter of praying hard enough. Mocking someone's religion is not consistent with the Debian Code of Conduct. This is a case where if you don't have a good response, silence is a better choice. Please do not describe someone's religious text as a fairy story in a Debian forum. Please takes this out of hear. -- John Doe
Re: This is sort of am accessibility problem
On 10/15/2021 6:43 AM, Gregory A. Lewis wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 13:38 Richard Owlett wrote: On 10/14/2021 10:19 AM, Gregory A. Lewis wrote: Yesterday I installed Debian 11.1.0, 3 times. I installed with debian-11.1.0-i386-netinst.iso and I was connected to the internet with a cable and and ethernet. I installed 3 times because I couldn't get the root password to set. I know what the passwords that I used were. I even opened the visual view of my passwords so I wouldn't make a mistake, but after setting up and finishing install they did not work. As last resort on the third try I tried 'sudo passwd root' and that flew. It's a problem but at least the solution is simple right now. You don't want your root password floating in a setup stream anyway Thsnk you. Csn you recommend a manual for setting up auxiliary accounts on the same machine ? Thank you again. Gregory Lewis I just did an install using https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso without *ANY* problems. Check your source. As stated above I used the i386 netinst image to install my Debian 11.1.0 system downloaded from Debian.org but what I did not say was that I did no verification of the image and I downloaded under HTTP. I did have the problem with the root password not being written to the system, or some malfunction. With the modern multi core cpu's, should I have actually used the amd64 image? I couldn't get amd64 OR the i386 image to boot off of a (slightly used) memory stick, so I burned it to a CD. The hardware device that the system was being installed on is a refurbished Dell Optiplex 380. I could add one more detall in that device that I used to download the images was a vintage Mac. To me, this looks llike it is of topick for this list as accessibility refers to making Debian accessible for people with disabilities. If I recall correctly, this issue was already discussed on the debian-user list you might be better off asking for help there. -- John Doe
Re: gaining access to the expert install options with speech possible?
On 10/3/2021 4:32 PM, Jason White wrote: On 3/10/21 08:58, majid hussain wrote: when i entered expert mode, I was not given an option to pick which version of debian I wanted to install? stable, unstable etc? is this not possible? The usual solution is to install Stable, then to upgrade to Testing or Unstable from within the installed system. You could choose a minimal set of packages during the initial installation. Once upgraded, start installing most of the software you need. This correct for unstable. For testing you could also grab a copy of the corresponding installer. -- John Doe
Re: CORRECTED - Bullseye No Speech In Consoles 2-6 and Unable to Login as User
On 9/8/2021 12:54 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Does anyone have any idea how I can find what is preventing users from loging into MATE (or other Desktop Environment) when Default is selected? or the problem with espeak-ng not speaking in other consoles because something is killing speech-dispatcher? Digging in the logs might reveale some clues. -- John Doe
Re: Logs from Failed Bullseye RC3 Netinstall CD Accessible installation
On 8/18/2021 9:21 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: D.J.J. Ring, Jr., le dim. 15 août 2021 07:03:51 -0400, a ecrit: I have the log files of unsuccessful installation of my Bullseye AMD64 RC Netinstall CD here: [1]http://qsl.net/n1ea/bullseyerc3netinstall.tar.gz This is telling me 404. Thanks to Jude for replying to my previous posts, otherwise I thought the list was malfunctioning. Sometimes people are merely on a week-end or on vacancy? Thank you Samule for pulling this off. -- John Doe
Re: Debian 11 unofficial firmware first installation
On 8/18/2021 8:06 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Gas lighted? Surely that's a screen reader mistake because it doesn't make sense to me. They should have stopped the release because few things are worse than a release that doesn't work at all. I have stripped the rant. When someone on this very list ask for feedback on a RC release of D-I, this issue was never brought up. -- John Doe
Re: editing files using VIM on remote server
On 8/18/2021 9:38 AM, adilhusain shaikh wrote: Thanks everyone for their response, Hi Samuel, I tried running :set noruler in vim command mode, but no luck. Hi Frank and john , I’m not using speak up. On windows, I used NVDA and JAWS. On Linux, I used Gnome-orca. Frank, maybe you’re write. Visually, the cursor goes to next line. But for some reason screen readers aren’t happy. Maybe I need to tweak something in server configuration. I experience the same issue when I run simple commands such as DNF update. When I press backspace to delete the last character entered, I don’t hear any feedback. Is DNF using curses or alike friends? I'm not able to reproduce what you are seeing using NVDA invim (Cygwin) and also remotely. If I recall correctly, I did not have this issue using espeakup. Cygwin is accessed thrue Teraterm though. Note that this is a Debian mailing list and you are talking about non-Debian stuff! -- John Doe
Re: editing files using VIM on remote server
On 8/17/2021 11:13 AM, adilhusain shaikh wrote: Hi all, I’m new to the list and this is my first post here. Please excuse me if my question is off topic. Currently, my job requires me to use cent OS on IBM power PC. And I’m having a nightmare editing files using SSH on remote server. The issue is when I press down arrow the cursor goes to next line,. But the screen reader still reads out the last line. Just let me explain. Let’s assume We have following lines in a text file Line 1 Line 2 Line 3 When I Press I, I’m on the first line. Press down arrow, goes to next line (line 2), but still reads out line 1. If you press I in vim, you are in insert mode. If you press escape you should be able to move with the arowkeys. Press down arrow again, goes to third line (line 3), now it reads out line 2. Press down arrow, already on third line. I Hear the bell and it reads out the third line. So far, I tried these things. * Used built-in SSH client of windows 10 * Used SSH in WSL in ubuntu This is Windows, what screenreader are you using? *installed Debian 10 as dual boot and tried SSH What screenreader are you using on linux? * Used different editors text VI, VIM and nano Everything has failed. Could someone please help me out? > Or just point me to right direction. In other words, please list the screenreaders that you are using on Windows and linux. -- John Doe
Re: my lynx config file
On 7/31/2021 6:53 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Still doesn't work here, Jude. https://www.panix.com/jdashiel/lynxcfg.zip Error 404: Page Not FoundSorry. We've reorganized our site, and the page you're looking for has been moved. For your convenience, we've added a site map <https://www.panix.com/general/> that should help you find what you need. DR On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 12:24 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: Permission problems on that file got fixed, I got that directory and the file set to chmod 755 lynxcfg.zip and no the file isn't capitalized. On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Chime Hart wrote: Sorry Jude, in the words of the 4Tops "Its the Same Old Song" Wonder if some portion of the file name is capitalized, but you think it isn't? Best of luck figuring this out, but yet I think 1 lister did grab it. Chime The '~' is missing in the URI before the username. https://www.panix.com/~jdashiel/lynxcfg.zip -- John Doe
Re: Screen Reader
On 7/30/2021 9:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: Well, a list of screen readers: Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) Orca (linux screen reader) NVDA (windows screen reader: free) NVDA is very good to create and interpret HTML pages. -- John Doe
Re: Install Orca screen reader on the server.
On 7/10/2021 4:48 PM, Marcel Roșca wrote: Hello! I want to know if "Orca" can be installed on a server without a Desktop environment, because I am a blind person and I would like to install a dedicated server. I don't want to have graphics, so I thought I'd install the orca manually, but I have no idea how to do that. I have already installed the audio drivers and I have sound in the terminal is not a problem, but with the installation of the orca it is a bit problematic. I use SSH to control the server, but I want to have a solution if I lose the connection so I can go to the terminal and restore from there, Thanks for the attention and I apologize for my English I don't know and I use Google Translate. Goodbye. If you "install Debian with speatch" you could use espeakup locally or install it using 'apt-get/apt'. -- John Doe
