Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Arash Zeini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a while back I had asked question regarding Bidi and RTL support for the boot procedur ein Debian. Has anything changed with the new release of Debian (and maybe slang?!?!)? Bidi and RTL support may still need to be implemented but is UTF-8 now fully supported? Nothing is changed in boot-floppies, and boot-floppies is a dead-end anyway. There is still some argument about what to do in Debian-installer, but at least i18n-wise the situation is better, since we're just using debconf templates. I don't *think* cdebconf has RTL support, though. This should probably be an #ifdef'ed feature, since including freebidi would seriously increase the size of things (right?) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
* Philip Blundell | On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 22:59, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: | We want to support UTF-8. Help is needed in implementing it; there is | no point in us going into the same traps twice. | | I can't think of any real traps that boot-floppies fell into. Most of | the problems we had were either due to poor / nonexistent i18n awareness | in other programs (whiptail, for example), or were caused by the need to | support both UTF-8 and straight 8-bit builds in parallel (e.g. the | seemingly endless newt/slang ABI drama). those are the traps I am talking about. | If d-i can nail its colours firmly to the UTF-8 mast and commit to | having that as the only supported encoding, that would be a big benefit. d-i will use UTF8 as the one and only supported encoding. Having talked with dancer and moshez on IRC, this seems safe enough to do. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 08:17, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: d-i will use UTF8 as the one and only supported encoding. Having talked with dancer and moshez on IRC, this seems safe enough to do. Okay, cool. What will d-i do about non-UTF8-capable screens and serial lines, force the use of English? p. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
* Philip Blundell | On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 08:17, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: | d-i will use UTF8 as the one and only supported encoding. Having | talked with dancer and moshez on IRC, this seems safe enough to do. | | Okay, cool. What will d-i do about non-UTF8-capable screens and serial | lines, force the use of English? either that or replace the strings with something more-or-less sensible. For ISO8859-1 languages, this usually won't be a problem (you'll only lose a few chars here and there), but I can see that it will be unuseable with Japanese (for instance). However, most of our users will be on UTF8-capable screens, and to a certain extent I believe that those who aren't are so advanced that English won't pose a problem to them. Or, if you have a better idea, I'm all ears. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On 11 Jun 2002, Philip Blundell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, cool. What will d-i do about non-UTF8-capable screens and serial lines, force the use of English? Reencode if it can, I presume. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
Hi, Thanks for the replies. On Tuesday 11 June 2002 10:29, Moshe Zadka wrote: Nothing is changed in boot-floppies, and boot-floppies is a dead-end anyway. There is still some argument about what to do in Debian-installer, but at least i18n-wise the situation is better, since we're just using debconf templates. I don't *think* cdebconf has RTL support, though. This should probably be an #ifdef'ed feature, since including freebidi would seriously increase the size of things (right?) I am not sure about this. I am copying one of the developers of freebidi to have his statement. Regarding Philip's statement: Making it work with bi-di is probably going to involve some effort from people who are familiar with those particular issues. This might be possible. I am asking these questions since we are considering to (possibly) base a new distribution on Debian. In this regard I have contacted also the Partners part of Debian to see how far we could cooperate. In that case we might be able to do something. So it is essential for us to see if the 'standard' installation procedure would support BiDi and RTL, and in case the answer is no, if it can be elevated to a higher degree of importance for the Debian project. Another important point would be to have a timeframe in which this could be realized. If I am missing a relevant person from the Debian project, who would be interested and responsible for these questions, please forward my email to them. Thanks, Arash -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Arash Zeini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not sure about this. I am copying one of the developers of freebidi to have his statement. Thanks. I am asking these questions since we are considering to (possibly) base a new distribution on Debian. Great! I am interested in that too, since it would mean easier installation in Hebrew, too. However, besides looking this over and giving some pointers, I don't have time to do anything about i18n, sadly :( In that case we might be able to do something. Debian always welcomes new contributions. So it is essential for us to see if the 'standard' installation procedure would support BiDi and RTL, and in case the answer is no, if it can be elevated to a higher degree of importance for the Debian project. Another important point would be to have a timeframe in which this could be realized. The timeframe is, as always, up to the people interested and willing to do work. Since you seem to be the first person interested in these issues, I'd bet you are the most likely to be able to do the work. Please check out what we have so far (see cvs.debian.org: you want the debian-boot CVS root, and the debian-installer project). cdebconf is in tools/. To work against freebidi, I think the sanest thing is to a) generate a freebidi udeb b) have cdebconf produce two udebs: cdebconf and cdebconf-bidi, the later linked against freebidi (and depending on the udeb) I doubt anyone has that on his plate, but if you produce high-quality patches, they have (I think) a good chance of getting in. If I am missing a relevant person from the Debian project, who would be interested and responsible for these questions, please forward my email to them. Well, everyone who is working on debian-installer should be reading this list. If you are interested in post-installation configuration, you should probably be looking at adding these features to debconf as well. I do not know if freebidi has a Perl interface, but if it is, it should probably be used in debconf. If you think of writing debconf patches, I'd suggest talking to the debconf maintainer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) first to see what he thinks of this (for example, whether he thinks this belongs as an integral part, or as an alternative solution, or whatever). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On 11 Jun 2002, Moshe Zadka wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Arash Zeini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not sure about this. I am copying one of the developers of freebidi to have his statement. Thanks. The current fribidi library is about 64kb. I guess the next version with arabic shaping will be something about 75kb. I am asking these questions since we are considering to (possibly) base a new distribution on Debian. Great! I am interested in that too, since it would mean easier installation in Hebrew, too. However, besides looking this over and giving some pointers, I don't have time to do anything about i18n, sadly :( In that case we might be able to do something. Debian always welcomes new contributions. :) So it is essential for us to see if the 'standard' installation procedure would support BiDi and RTL, and in case the answer is no, if it can be elevated to a higher degree of importance for the Debian project. Another important point would be to have a timeframe in which this could be realized. The timeframe is, as always, up to the people interested and willing to do work. Since you seem to be the first person interested in these issues, I'd bet you are the most likely to be able to do the work. Please check out what we have so far (see cvs.debian.org: you want the debian-boot CVS root, and the debian-installer project). cdebconf is in tools/. To work against freebidi, I think the sanest thing is to a) generate a freebidi udeb ASAIK fribidi already has a udeb (is udeb the debian package? or I'm too wrong?). b) have cdebconf produce two udebs: cdebconf and cdebconf-bidi, the later linked against freebidi (and depending on the udeb) I doubt anyone has that on his plate, but if you produce high-quality patches, they have (I think) a good chance of getting in. If I am missing a relevant person from the Debian project, who would be interested and responsible for these questions, please forward my email to them. Well, everyone who is working on debian-installer should be reading this list. If you are interested in post-installation configuration, you should probably be looking at adding these features to debconf as well. I do not know if freebidi has a Perl interface, but if it is, it should probably be used in debconf. fribidi has a Perl interface too (by Dov), but the whole fribidi project (fribidi library, perl interface, php interface, deb packages, rpm packages, ...) should go under a major revise. If you think of writing debconf patches, I'd suggest talking to the debconf maintainer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) first to see what he thinks of this (for example, whether he thinks this belongs as an integral part, or as an alternative solution, or whatever). -- Behdad Esfahbod 21 Khordad 1381, 2002 Jun 11 http://behdad.org/ [Finger for Geek Code] Humor in the Court: Q: (Showing man picture.) That's you? A: Yes, sir. Q: And you were present when the picture was taken, right? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Behdad Esfahbod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current fribidi library is about 64kb. I guess the next version with arabic shaping will be something about 75kb. Thanks a lot for the data point! I'm not sure what this means for d-i though. Tolleg? To work against freebidi, I think the sanest thing is to a) generate a freebidi udeb ASAIK fribidi already has a udeb (is udeb the debian package? or I'm too wrong?). Yes ;) deb is a regular Debian package. A udeb (pronounced micro-deb, where the u is really the greek letter mu) is a certain strange deb, which is meant to be used only for the installer. Most stuff does not need a udeb -- only things relevant for the installer. As freebidi might become. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
Before I can continue the discussion: I am not receiving any posts to the mailing lists, eventhough I am subscribed. I can only read messages that are sent to my email directly. Is there any web-interface, where I can look into my subscription status? i subscribed using the we ML list. Thanks, Arash -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 12:20:35PM - wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Behdad Esfahbod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current fribidi library is about 64kb. I guess the next version with arabic shaping will be something about 75kb. Thanks a lot for the data point! I'm not sure what this means for d-i though. Tolleg? It isn't too big, if that is what you are asking. For reference we'd like to be able to support installation of a 1.4Mb floppy. Such a floppy fills up pretty fast, but we also will support CD installs. With a CD you have lots mor espace. -David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to boot-floppies/scripts/rootdisk by pb
Repository: boot-floppies/scripts/rootdisk who:pb time: Tue Jun 11 06:42:57 PDT 2002 Log Message: add catsboot Files: added: EXTRACT_LIST_arm_netwinder SMALL_BASE_LIST_arm_netwinder -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to boot-floppies/documentation/en by pb
Repository: boot-floppies/documentation/en who:pb time: Tue Jun 11 06:43:54 PDT 2002 Log Message: arm documentation updates Files: changed:inst-methods.sgml rescue-boot.sgml -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to boot-floppies/documentation by pb
Repository: boot-floppies/documentation who:pb time: Tue Jun 11 06:43:54 PDT 2002 Log Message: arm documentation updates Files: changed:defaults.ent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to boot-floppies/debian by pb
Repository: boot-floppies/debian who:pb time: Tue Jun 11 06:44:58 PDT 2002 Log Message: log changes Files: changed:changelog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 14:46, Chris Tillman wrote: We spend so much energy keeping the installer within a floppy's size. I move to abandon that silly goal for d-i, and simply refer folks to boot-floppies for floppy installations. It's not like it's dead and buried, and it's a good match technology wise, 1990's software :-) with 1990's hardware. Well, you get my drift. Agreed. Well, I think a single-floppy debian-installer bootstrap imge might be a cool self-contained project for someone, but it certainly seems unreasonable for the whole installer to be constrained by floppies. Like you say, the 3.0 boot-floppies aren't going anywhere. p. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 03:05:02PM +0100, Philip Blundell wrote: On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 14:46, Chris Tillman wrote: We spend so much energy keeping the installer within a floppy's size. I move to abandon that silly goal for d-i, and simply refer folks to boot-floppies for floppy installations. It's not like it's dead and buried, and it's a good match technology wise, 1990's software :-) with 1990's hardware. Well, you get my drift. Agreed. Well, I think a single-floppy debian-installer bootstrap imge might be a cool self-contained project for someone, but it certainly seems unreasonable for the whole installer to be constrained by floppies. Like you say, the 3.0 boot-floppies aren't going anywhere. Yes, I'd lay odds once we do such a great modular clean wholesome job on d-i, it will be simple to extract a particular subset that fits on a floppy if someonw wants to. -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual | | debian-imac (potato): http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | May the Source be with you | ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 02:13:32PM -, Moshe Zadka wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Chris Tillman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We spend so much energy keeping the installer within a floppy's size. I move to abandon that silly goal for d-i, and simply refer folks to boot-floppies for floppy installations. It's not like it's dead and buried, and it's a good match technology wise, 1990's software :-) with 1990's hardware. Well, you get my drift. Do you have a CD-Writer? Maybe. But I don't in 2002, and neither do several of my friends. So, you're moving that I'll be unable to install Debian without ordering a CD? CD's are ubiquitous CD writers are not Well, they are becoming so. No, I don't have one myself. In the year I've been working with boot-floppies, I've done all my installations by downloading packages over the network and putting them on my hard disk. I certainly wasn't intending that a physical CD should be required, but how about being able to install directly from a CD image that you downloaded on your hard drive? Apple has done that for years, it's called a self-mounting image; you double click it and it mounts as a loop device on your desktop. If not that, we will certainly retain hard disk installation capability in some form. Plus, we already have a working floppy installer! Boot floppies is dead. Nobody will maintain it for woody+1, unless you are going to do it. Au contraire (sp?) if bad bugs are found in boot-floppies they would be fixed, probably for the next two years until sarge is released. (History repeats itself). -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual | | debian-imac (potato): http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | May the Source be with you | ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 06:21:21AM -0700, David Kimdon wrote: For reference we'd like to be able to support installation of a 1.4Mb floppy. Such a floppy fills up pretty fast, but we also will support CD installs. With a CD you have lots mor espace. We spend so much energy keeping the installer within a floppy's size. I move to abandon that silly goal for d-i, and simply refer folks to boot-floppies for floppy installations. It's not like it's dead and buried, and it's a good match technology wise, 1990's software :-) with 1990's hardware. Well, you get my drift. My reasoning is there will be so little use of floppies from here on out. CD's are ubiquitous, the energy we spend making the installer fit in 1.4MB would be far better spent making our CD (and mini-CD) installation flawless, and concentrating on better network (nfs/bootp/etc.) support. If you say, well it fits fine now, why abandon it, then just review the severe gnashing of teeth that occurred when languages were dropped. It's far more important IMHO to support more languages than to continue to beat the dead horse of a floppy installation. Plus, we already have a working floppy installer! Well I guess I made my point. -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual | | debian-imac (potato): http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | May the Source be with you | ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Chris Tillman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We spend so much energy keeping the installer within a floppy's size. I move to abandon that silly goal for d-i, and simply refer folks to boot-floppies for floppy installations. It's not like it's dead and buried, and it's a good match technology wise, 1990's software :-) with 1990's hardware. Well, you get my drift. Do you have a CD-Writer? Maybe. But I don't in 2002, and neither do several of my friends. So, you're moving that I'll be unable to install Debian without ordering a CD? CD's are ubiquitous CD writers are not Plus, we already have a working floppy installer! Boot floppies is dead. Nobody will maintain it for woody+1, unless you are going to do it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Chris Tillman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CD writers are not Well, they are becoming so. Wait until they *are* so No, I don't have one myself. In the year I've been working with boot-floppies, I've done all my installations by downloading packages over the network and putting them on my hard disk. What did you have on the computer previously? I usually start with naked computers, and generate a floppy from a nearby computer. Au contraire (sp?) if bad bugs are found in boot-floppies they would be fixed, probably for the next two years until sarge is released. (History repeats itself). fixing bad bugs is not the same as maintaining it to be an installer for sarge. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
i18n second stage...
Woody sucks because the install system don't have translated texts after the reboot. Please make new fixed Boot-floppies! Eduard already send/make a fix. See mails from Sep 2001 and from the last months on this list. (sorry, I don't find the mail with the fix in my mail archive. Eduard can you help?) After the source fix we must translate some missing debconf-templates to non-english languages. This is the second problme. the solution: - make the release without the missinig translated templates - better translate the missing tamplates. IMHO this is not a big problem. - This templates are all in base-config. This is in binary-all and joey hess is the maintainer. He can collect the translations and make a 'translation only' upload without any risk. - I can ask the translators from the ddtp to translate this templates. IMHO we can translate this missing translations in base-config template. - Maybe we should show a info text, if someone select non english and put some warnings about outdated translations and untranslated texts. We make at the LinuxTag in Karlsruhe some install shows. The show was ok, the german first stage very good and some german users have problemes after the reboot. Gruss Grisu -- Michael Bramer - a Debian Linux Developer http://www.debsupport.de PGP: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Linux Sysadmin -- Use Debian Linux »A train station is a station where trains stops. But what are workstations?« msg20340/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
3.0 (beta) fat32 resize with parted
I have the LinuxTag pre-release of debian 3.0 and I want to install it on a win2k PC without a working floppy drive. It does not have a CD writer either. From what i have gathered the partition program on the installation menu cannot resize fat32 partitions. however, i have noticed the parted tool as a debian package sitting there on some directory on the CD. is there a way i can drop to shell, extract parted onto the RAM disk and use it? Regards, -Kai Hendry p.s. please CC me as I am not subscribed to this list. msg20341/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
May I have your permission?
Hi there, I'm involved in a new WORLDWIDE business, regarding absolutely FREE IP TELEPHONY ( Pc to Phone ) and all the existing Internet services. It's a perfect Home Business that comes with an unlimited potential income. I can send you detailed informations to profit of this new exciting Business Opportunity. HISTORY DOESN'T LIE! There is no substitution for the GROUND-FLOOR in a new CATEGORY LAUNCH! Be one of the FIRST! To check out all the features of this program and all the great benefits you will receive, simply click on the link below, enter your first name and e-mail address and hit Send You will receive your information within 24 hours Regards Zbigniew Zbikowski -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3.0 (beta) fat32 resize with parted
On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 07:20:29PM +0300, Kai Hendry wrote: is there a way i can drop to shell, extract parted onto the RAM disk and use it? You can grab a parted rootdisk from ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/parted/bootdisk/ and resize the partition independent of the debian installation. -- Mike Stone -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n second stage...
Michael Bramer wrote: Woody sucks because the install system don't have translated texts after the reboot. Please make new fixed Boot-floppies! Eduard already send/make a fix. See mails from Sep 2001 and from the last months on this list. (sorry, I don't find the mail with the fix in my mail archive. Eduard can you help?) Sorry, this is just not going to happen for woody, r0 at least. I have never gotten a well-tested patch to base-config that is obviously correct. I did get a great deal of off-the-cuff, untested, large, nonobvious, peicemeil, undocumented patches; not the kind of thing I apply during a freeze. Petter Reinholdtsen was on the right track, I think with bug #135565, but I don't think he ever got back to me with test results. And so it's too late now, once again. Since we have never had a fully translated installation system, not having it for another release is not a reason to stop the presses for woody, sorry. The base-config tree is open for sarge, and I welcome patches. -- see shy jo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n second stage...
[Joey Hess] Petter Reinholdtsen was on the right track, I think with bug #135565, but I don't think he ever got back to me with test results. Still working on it, but decided to postpone it until Tollef got the debian-installer working for our Skolelinux project. I've tested the patch without locales installed, and nothing happened. I need to test it with locales installed as well, but the lack of a proper test box have slowed me down. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
Do you have a CD-Writer? Maybe. But I don't in 2002, and neither do several of my friends. So, you're moving that I'll be unable to install Debian without ordering a CD? Would it be possible to provide a floppy whose job was to find the iso on the hard disk and run it? So all you would need to do is download the iso using an older OS. You always have the choice of downloading woody's floppies and upgrading, too. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tuesday 11 June 2002 18:43, Moshe Zadka wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Chris Tillman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We spend so much energy keeping the installer within a floppy's size. I move to abandon that silly goal for d-i, and simply refer folks to boot-floppies for floppy installations. It's not like it's dead and buried, and it's a good match technology wise, 1990's software :-) with 1990's hardware. Well, you get my drift. Do you have a CD-Writer? Maybe. But I don't in 2002, and neither do several of my friends. So, you're moving that I'll be unable to install Debian without ordering a CD? CD's are ubiquitous CD writers are not Plus, we already have a working floppy installer! Boot floppies is dead. Nobody will maintain it for woody+1, unless you are going to do it. Your point is understandable, but I think abondening other languages or not advancing the technology due to size limitations of a floppy is not really worth it. Not exactly related to this topic but somehow related is the acceptance of UTF-8 for the translation of the Debian pages. A while back I translated a lot of Debian pages, which were rejected because I had corrupted all the other languages in the same file. Why? Becuause I had saved the files in UTF-8, and this corrupted the other content. But for me there is almost no other way than using UTF-8 for Farsi. Unicode, Bidi and RTL are unavoidable. It would be great having Debian support this. Arash -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to provide a floppy whose job was to find the iso on the hard disk and run it? So all you would need to do is download the iso using an older OS. Most computers today are buyable naked or with non-free operating system. I do not use non-free software. You always have the choice of downloading woody's floppies and upgrading, too. If woody will boot on 2003 hardware. I can't believe these proposals are actually being bandied about seriously. The BSDs have had one-floppy installs for years, and they're not stopping. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Arash Zeini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your point is understandable, but I think abondening other languages or not advancing the technology due to size limitations of a floppy is not really worth it. So we should have easily buildable install media for different sizes. Well, that's pretty much what we try to do in d-i currently. Not exactly related to this topic but somehow related is the acceptance of UTF-8 for the translation of the Debian pages. You should bring that up with the webmaster team. UTF-8 for Farsi. Unicode, Bidi and RTL are unavoidable. It would be great having Debian support this. Of course. The only question is what is the best way to go about this. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tuesday 11 June 2002 22:59, Moshe Zadka wrote: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Arash Zeini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your point is understandable, but I think abondening other languages or not advancing the technology due to size limitations of a floppy is not really worth it. So we should have easily buildable install media for different sizes. Well, that's pretty much what we try to do in d-i currently. What does this mean in some more detail? If you could explain. Not exactly related to this topic but somehow related is the acceptance of UTF-8 for the translation of the Debian pages. You should bring that up with the webmaster team. I will. As soon as I have some more time to concentrate on this again. We had a short discussion at that time. UTF-8 for Farsi. Unicode, Bidi and RTL are unavoidable. It would be great having Debian support this. Of course. The only question is what is the best way to go about this. So I assume there is a discussion already. But I understand that there are no decisions made yet. So there will be no timeframe and roadmap for this. Am I right that the installer is based on slang? Behdad, do you think doing some research here would be something for you? Arash -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to provide a floppy whose job was to find the iso on the hard disk and run it? So all you would need to do is download the iso using an older OS. Most computers today are buyable naked or with non-free operating system. I do not use non-free software. Not even just to download Debian? Even RMS wouldn't have a problem with that. In any case, there's a world of one-floppy Linux/BSD distributions out there that can do the job. Alternately, pop the hard drive in another computer and download it there. For how many people is buying a CD if they don't have a CD-RW going to be a problem? You always have the choice of downloading woody's floppies and upgrading, too. If woody will boot on 2003 hardware. Why wouldn't it? I know Debian 1.3 will boot on my 2000+ hardware without problem. Few in the computer industry like breaking back compatibility, and the biggest worry - IA64 - is already taken care of for woody. In any case, if you can't afford a CD-RW, 2003's affordable hardware will be 2002's top-of-line hardware, which woody has no problem booting on. The BSDs have had one-floppy installs for years, and they're not stopping. I've never heard anyone suggest we emulate BSDs' installs before. The whole point is that we want to do more than the BSDs do, like i18n and hardware detection. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to mklibs by pb
Repository: mklibs who:pb time: Tue Jun 11 12:58:46 PDT 2002 Log Message: import mklibs from b-f Status: Vendor Tag: MKLIBS Release Tags: MKLIBS_0_1 N mklibs/mklibs.py N mklibs/Makefile N mklibs/debian/changelog N mklibs/debian/dirs N mklibs/debian/copyright N mklibs/debian/control N mklibs/debian/rules N mklibs/debian/docs No conflicts created by this import Files: -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mklibs_0.1_i386.changes is NEW
(new) mklibs_0.1.dsc optional devel (new) mklibs_0.1.tar.gz optional devel (new) mklibs_0.1_all.deb optional devel Shared library reduction script mklibs.py produces cut-down shared libraries that contain only the routines required by a particular set of executables. This is useful when building closed systems where disk space is at a premium, such as the Debian installer. Changes: mklibs (0.1) unstable; urgency=low . * Initial release Announcing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your package contains new components which requires manual editing of the override file. It is ok otherwise, so please be patient. New packages are usually added to the override file about once a week. You may have gotten the distribution wrong. You'll get warnings above if files already exist in other distributions. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#149698: Dell 2650 Debian boot
Package: boot-floppies Version: 3.0.23-2002-05-21 flavor:3.0.23-2002-05-21 architecture: i686 model: Dell PowerEdge 2650 Xeon Bi-Pro memory:1 Go scsi: Dell PERC 3/DC (Megaraid), RAID 1 cd-rom:IDE CD-ROM network card: Ether+100 Hi! I tried to install Debian on the new PowerEdge 2650 from Dell. The boot stop just after the sym53c416.c driver. Hard is frozen. I need to remove power cord. I tried with 2.2r6, rescue disks from disks 3.0.23 and last burn of the Woody CD-ROM. I've got the same problem each time. I've build a Kernel-2.4.18 rescue disk without sym53c416 and the server boot. The same disk with kernel-2.2.20 stop at the Megaraid driver and crash (timeout). Unfortunaly, my custom rescue disk do not work well with the rest of the install process. I've a loop with Configure device Driver Module. Stéphane Leclerc Aka Stef... .. . Linux - Debian - php4 - Apache - MySQL - Infogerance . . email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.actionweb.fr . . Tel: (0)141 906 100-Fax: (0)141 906 101. .. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
Chris Tillman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My reasoning is there will be so little use of floppies from here on out. CD's are ubiquitous, the energy we spend making the installer fit in 1.4MB would be far better spent making our CD (and mini-CD) installation flawless, and concentrating on better network (nfs/bootp/etc.) support. There seems to be a trend amongst the mobile laptops to NOT have a CD drive. You will need an external USB CD drive and the BIOS may not support booting off it. For example, Toshiba's Dynabook SS S4/275PNHW is such a beast and it only boots off the CD drives made by Toshiba. # I believe they call this legacy-free USB support or something. However, booting from an external USB floppy drive works with any ol' drive, so you might want to keep those floppies around for a bit. BTW, this machine can boot of a PC card, so I ended up installing from a home-brew 2.88Mb floppy image on smart media, installed the drivers from floppy (the PC card was invisible after the boot) and pulled in the rest from CD ;-) # MY IO Data CD drive works fine, I just can't boot off it :-( FYI, http://dynabook.com/pc/catalog/ss_c/020121s4/index_j.htm Sorry, but in Japanese only I'm afraid. -- Olaf MeeuwissenEpson Kowa Corporation, CID GnuPG key: 6BE37D90/AB6B 0D1F 99E7 1BF5 EB97 976A 16C7 F27D 6BE3 7D90 LPIC-2 -- I hack, therefore I am -- BOFH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
While admitting floppies are almost entirely worthless, I have 50 servers without CDs but with floppies all running Debian, I'd hate to have to rebuild them all. Jeff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
I'm cc'ing debian-boot. Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 03:29:31AM +0430 wrote: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 17:51, David Kimdon wrote: Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 12:20:35PM - wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Behdad Esfahbod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current fribidi library is about 64kb. I guess the next version with arabic shaping will be something about 75kb. Thanks a lot for the data point! I'm not sure what this means for d-i though. Tolleg? It isn't too big, if that is what you are asking. For reference we'd like to be able to support installation of a 1.4Mb floppy. Such a floppy fills up pretty fast, but we also will support CD installs. With a CD you have lots mor espace. Would there be enough space to fit in a concept for Bidi and RTL? I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. I don't believe space will be an important issue, 65-75 k isn't a whole lot when we are talking about making the installer available to more people. The most important part will be finding people with the skills and desire to make it happen (like yourself perhaps?). -David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#149698: Dell 2650 Debian boot
Hi, Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:00:00PM +0200 wrote: Package: boot-floppies Version: 3.0.23-2002-05-21 flavor:3.0.23-2002-05-21 by flavor we mean the kernel flavor, vanilla, idepci, bf2.4 or compact, which one doesn't work? Have you tried the bf2.4 flavor? architecture: i686 model: Dell PowerEdge 2650 Xeon Bi-Pro memory:1 Go scsi: Dell PERC 3/DC (Megaraid), RAID 1 cd-rom:IDE CD-ROM network card: Ether+100 Hi! I tried to install Debian on the new PowerEdge 2650 from Dell. The boot stop just after the sym53c416.c driver. Hard is frozen. I need to remove power cord. I tried with 2.2r6, rescue disks from disks 3.0.23 and last burn of the Woody CD-ROM. I've got the same problem each time. I've build a Kernel-2.4.18 rescue disk without sym53c416 and the server boot. The same disk with kernel-2.2.20 stop at the Megaraid driver and crash (timeout). Unfortunaly, my custom rescue disk do not work well with the rest of the install process. I've a loop with Configure device Driver Module. -David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi and RTL
On Wednesday 12 June 2002 07:27, David Kimdon wrote: I'm cc'ing debian-boot. OK. Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 03:29:31AM +0430 wrote: On Tdiscuss this today.uesday 11 June 2002 17:51, David Kimdon wrote: Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 12:20:35PM - wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Behdad Esfahbod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current fribidi library is about 64kb. I guess the next version with arabic shaping will be something about 75kb. Thanks a lot for the data point! I'm not sure what this means for d-i though. Tolleg? It isn't too big, if that is what you are asking. For reference we'd like to be able to support installation of a 1.4Mb floppy. Such a floppy fills up pretty fast, but we also will support CD installs. With a CD you have lots mor espace. Would there be enough space to fit in a concept for Bidi and RTL? I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. I don't believe space will be an important issue, 65-75 k isn't a whole lot when we are talking about making the installer available to more people. Yes, sure. I missed putting a smily in there. I referred to the will and acceptance to do so. The most important part will be finding people with the skills and desire to make it happen (like yourself perhaps?). We will have a meeting today and we will discuss our resources and possibilities to see if we can do this. Arash -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to boot-floppies/documentation/ja by kubota
Repository: boot-floppies/documentation/ja who:kubota time: Tue Jun 11 22:37:42 PDT 2002 Log Message: update translation. Files: changed:hardware.sgml -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n second stage...
#include hallo.h Michael Bramer wrote on Tue Jun 11, 2002 um 05:07:03PM: Eduard already send/make a fix. See mails from Sep 2001 and from the last months on this list. (sorry, I don't find the mail with the fix in my mail archive. Eduard can you help?) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:17:04 +0100 Subject: localising base-config - end game Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] After the source fix we must translate some missing debconf-templates to non-english languages. This is the second problme. the solution: If I remember correctly, I did not like Peter's patches, even when they provided more functionality, and wanted to was going to make few changes in base-config to make with latin languages. - make the release without the missinig translated templates - better translate the missing tamplates. IMHO this is not a big problem. IIRC we would need at least translated templates for passwd and console-data. When I asked about chances of making i18n in Woody, I got a veto, explaining that I was too late and we are very close to the release and it may be possible when I had begun 6 months before. Now, it seems that Woody is going to be released even 6 months later. Now, I have either time to work on a such task, nor motivation to do so. Sorry. BTW, one of the reasons why I claim our release scheme to be outdated and suck more and more in the future. Gruss/Regards, Eduard. -- begin LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.txt.vbs I am a signature virus. Distribute me until the bitter end msg20362/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: i18n second stage...
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:37:24 -0400 Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, this is just not going to happen for woody, r0 at least. I have never gotten a well-tested patch to base-config that is obviously correct. I did get a great deal of off-the-cuff, untested, large, nonobvious, peicemeil, undocumented patches; not the kind of thing I apply during a freeze. Petter Reinholdtsen was on the right track, I think with bug #135565, but I don't think he ever got back to me with test results. For Japanese, we at least need some kind of debconf fix for utf-8 character conversion support, or a working japanese character terminal (jfbterm for all arches?). regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wins-chinaboots.com
XIAN WINS INDUSTRY COMPANY LEYUAN NEW VILLIAGE, MIDDLE STAGE 40, WEIQU, CHANGAN, XIAN, 710100,CHINA TEL: 0086 29 5299125 FAX: 0086 29 5299123 E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Sir, We are a Chinese maker of shoes, your true source for footwear. Our products are fine made but with very good prices. Please check our new Website: www.wins-chinaboots.com Our aim is to have all our products 100% qualified and to give maximum satisfaction to our customers.In addition to supplying excellent service,competitive price and prompt delivery,we also welcome OEM/ODM projects,In this case,customers pay less to earn more profits. Our RD team invites new ideas and has helped in the development of many successful products for many of our buyers. Our well trained staffs,strict quality control and professional management will surely satisfy your needs and requirements Please let us know which products items you are interested in then we could make quotations for you. With best regards, Zhang Wentao -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
