cvs commit to debian-installer/libdebian-installer by sjogren
Repository: debian-installer/libdebian-installer who:sjogren time: Sun Sep 8 04:21:32 MDT 2002 Log Message: Add di_pkg_parse() to parse Packages files Add di_stristr() for case-insensitive substring matching Files: changed:Makefile debian-installer.c debian-installer.h -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to debian-installer/libdebian-installer/debian by sjogren
Repository: debian-installer/libdebian-installer/debian who:sjogren time: Sun Sep 8 04:21:32 MDT 2002 Log Message: Add di_pkg_parse() to parse Packages files Add di_stristr() for case-insensitive substring matching Files: changed:changelog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to debian-installer/anna/debian by sjogren
Repository: debian-installer/anna/debian who:sjogren time: Sun Sep 8 04:26:58 MDT 2002 Log Message: Use di_pkg_parse from libd-i Files: changed:changelog control -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to debian-installer/anna by sjogren
Repository: debian-installer/anna who:sjogren time: Sun Sep 8 04:26:57 MDT 2002 Log Message: Use di_pkg_parse from libd-i Files: changed:Makefile anna.h retriever.c removed:packages.h -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to debian-installer/main-menu by sjogren
Repository: debian-installer/main-menu who:sjogren time: Sun Sep 8 04:28:18 MDT 2002 Log Message: Use di_pkg_parse from libd-i Files: changed:Makefile main-menu.h status.c tree.c -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to debian-installer/main-menu/debian by sjogren
Repository: debian-installer/main-menu/debian who:sjogren time: Sun Sep 8 04:28:20 MDT 2002 Log Message: Use di_pkg_parse from libd-i Files: changed:changelog control -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
care to upload new busybox?
Hi, it seems like there is a bug in zcat in busybox, where: 14:01 Marvin-- while (file_count == 0 || optind argc) 14:02 Marvin-- it increases optind, but not file_count This seems to be fixed in the development version. Care to upload a fixed package? -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cvs commit to debian-installer/utils/debian by tfheen
On Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 08:36:20PM -0600, Debian Boot CVS Master wrote: Repository: debian-installer/utils/debian who:tfheen time: Sat Sep 7 20:36:20 MDT 2002 Log Message: Initial checkin of mounter Files: changed:changelog control added: di-utils-mount-partitions.postinst di-utils-mount-partitions.template Wrong filename, should be di-utils-mount-partitions.templates Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
i18n requires setlocale
Hi, i18n of messages and other things require setlocale. AFAIK there are no call to setlocale in the sources. Adding setlocale(LC_ALL,); to start of each main() should be enough. Otherwise applications will be running in C locale. regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Junichi Uekawa http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer GPG Fingerprint : 17D6 120E 4455 1832 9423 7447 3059 BF92 CD37 56F4 Libpkg-guide: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n requires setlocale
sön 2002-09-08 klockan 13.59 skrev Junichi Uekawa: Hi, i18n of messages and other things require setlocale. AFAIK there are no call to setlocale in the sources. Adding setlocale(LC_ALL,); to start of each main() should be enough. I've been thinking the same thing. However, the i18n support is pretty hazy as it is: * main-menu asks debconf for debian-installer/language which afaict doesn't exist. IMO it would be better if the thing that asked for debian-installer/language first, sets LANG=$language after that, so setlocale can be used. * The Packages file parsing didn't support Description-ll_CC, only Description-ll (something I'm working on fixing) and I'm not sure about cdebconf as I get lost in the source code when I try to have a look. * Not all templates are in UTF-8. * debconf TITLE commands aren't translated at all. * Should we even use debconf i18n (which is pretty limited) or po files as per gettext? * How much i18n can we (and how much do we want to) fit on the floppy? That's just a list on top of my head, there are probably more issues than this. Regards, Martin signature.asc Description: Detta =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4r?= en digitalt signeradmeddelandedel
Woody Installation
: DCAS-34330 Rev: S65A Type Direct-AccessANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi disk sda at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-ROM PX-32TS Rev: 1.01 Type : CD-ROMANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 4, lun 0 Vendor: CyberDrv Model: CD-ROM TW240SRev: 1.40 Type : CD-ROMANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr1 at scsi0, channel 0, id 5, lun 0 Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-ROM Rewritable-2x2x6 Rev: 2.00 Type : CD-ROMANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr2 at scsi0, channel 0, id 6, lun 0 scsi : detected 3 SCSI cdroms 1 SCSI disk total ... sr0: NOT LISTED, WHY ? sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 24x/24x cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray sr2 scsi3-mmc drive: 2x/6x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray Partition check sda: sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4 hda: hda1 hda5 hda6 hda7 hda8 hda9 hda10 hda11 hda2 hdb: hdb1 hdb5 hdb6 hdb7 hdb8 hdb9 hdb10 hdb11 hdc: [PTBL] [2491/255/63] hdc1 hdc5 hdc6 hdc7 What's that? Why? Seems to be Partition table / CHS, but why? insmod: modprobe: cannot create /var/log/ksymoops/20020908.log Read-only file system insmod: /libs/modules/2.2.20/misc/unix.o: cannot create /var/log/ksymoops/20020908121553.ksyms Read-only file sestem insmod: /libs/modules/2.2.20/misc/unix.o: cannot create /var/log/ksymoops/20020908.log Read-only file sestem is this serious? ... Loading modules: unix af_packet ne2k-pci ne2k-pci.c: v1.02 for Linux 2.2 ??? af_packet: what's that, who installed that? nek2k-pci.c: PCI NE2000 clone 'Realtek RTL-8029' at I/O 0xb800, IRQ 12 eth0: RealTek RTL-8029 found at 0xb800, IRQ12, MAC-Address sb Soundblaster audio driver Coipyright ... SB 4.13 detected OK (220) sb: interrupt test on IRQ7 failed - probable IRQ conflict nls_cp437 vfat nfs /proc/modules sb 32456 0 (unused) uart401 5872 0 [sb] sound 56384 0 [sb uart401] soundlow 384 0 [sound] soundcore 2452 5 [sb sound] usb-uhci 18220 0 (unused) usbcore43920 0 [usb-uhci] * ide-scsi7060 0 * parport_probe 3360 0 (autoclean) * parport_pc 7276 1 (autoclean) lp 4580 0 (autoclean) * parport 6852 1 (autoclean) [parport_probe parport_pc lp] * pcmcia_core45824 0 nfs71180 0 (unused) lockd 42420 0 [nfs] * sunrpc 57816 0 [nfs lockd] vfat9428 0 nls_cp437 3896 1 ne2k-pci4240 1 83905944 0 [ne2k-pci] af_packet 6152 0 (unused) unix 11352 5 (autoclean) Why ide-scsi? Never asked for that. The only DVD drive may also be accessed through directly. Sunrpc? What's that Pcmcia? Didn't we remove Pcmcia during intallation? Parport? I only want to print thru my parallel port. No scanners, No CD-ROMs, nothing else. What can I delete? Debian System Configutarion ... just run /usr/sbin/base-config Just imagine, all thoes usesful bits of information stored in a nice text file. If Possible with something like: You installed xxx, config files are config programs are format of config files (no man pages as usual) can be found at a, the following errors occured during install , to solve them run or edit . Wouldn't this be just great? Writing down /usr/base/config (hoping not to lose slip of paper) No GMT - Europe/Berlin md5 passwords enabled shadow passwords enabled create user Q: How secure are passwords like 'I1,just4.want4 in2 No_of_Chars11'. Can they easily be cracked too? (Meaningful sentence + special chars on the same key on all keyboards) delete PCMCIA No PPP for installing Apt-Configuration /dev/cdrom : yuck : changed to /mnt/cd32 = /dev/sr0 fstab : /dev/sr0 /mnt/cd32 iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0 mount /mnt/cd32 works entering /mnt/cd32 in Ap-config causes error-message : /mnt/cd32 no block device mounting /mnt/cd32 solves this problem, but apt-config is skipped (very bad) No way back. How do I configure it now? So run tasksel - no run dselect - no mail : no configuration, not decided what will be necessary. Will ask in further posting. login man apt man apt-cache yucck, pager is more, no less installed (extremely bad) man apt.conf man apt-config apropos apt - apt : nothing appropriate (that's ridiculous) Nothing tells me how to create apt.conf. As there was a graphical interface in the install program, it would be nice if it could be used outside the installation process. cd /usr/share/doc/apt cat guide.text.gz | gzip -d | more doesn't yield anything useful either. So, how do I now create apt.conf? The sample under /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/apt.conf however does not contain
Re: i18n requires setlocale
* main-menu asks debconf for debian-installer/language which afaict doesn't exist. IMO it would be better if the thing that asked for debian-installer/language first, sets LANG=$language after that, so setlocale can be used. * The Packages file parsing didn't support Description-ll_CC, only Description-ll (something I'm working on fixing) and I'm not sure about cdebconf as I get lost in the source code when I try to have a look. * Not all templates are in UTF-8. No templates should be in UTF-8. They need to be converted from their local encoding to the UTF-8 on the fly, or on creation of udebs. * Should we even use debconf i18n (which is pretty limited) or po files as per gettext? It should probably be worked on by Tomohiro Kubota, on the real debconf... We used po files for boot-floppies, and I think it was quite easy to maintain, as far as po files went. But I'm used to po files. I gather that many people are used to maintaining debconf templates, so it shouldn't make much difference. * How much i18n can we (and how much do we want to) fit on the floppy? That is why udebootstrap may be required. Note that debian-installer goes very far back from boot-floppies in respect to i18n. boot-floppies worked around the size constraints by loading locale information from file on CD-Rom, if it was available. (xlp.tgz). regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Junichi Uekawa http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer GPG Fingerprint : 17D6 120E 4455 1832 9423 7447 3059 BF92 CD37 56F4 Libpkg-guide: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n requires setlocale
sön 2002-09-08 klockan 17.31 skrev Junichi Uekawa: No templates should be in UTF-8. They need to be converted from their local encoding to the UTF-8 on the fly, or on creation of udebs. Why can't they be in UTF-8? My local encoding *is* UTF-8 (unless I misunderstand what you mean). And on-the-fly conversion is something that I want debconf to do, but it also requires specifying the encoding in the templates files. But I don't see the importance of templates not being in UTF-8. Precious few editors don't support UTF-8, and even if someone happens to use an editor that doesn't, there's iconv. Gtk 2 and hence Gnome 2 use UTF-8 for all text and po files, so it's not as if it can't be done. We used po files for boot-floppies, and I think it was quite easy to maintain, as far as po files went. But I'm used to po files. I'm used to po files too, being a member of the Swedish team in the Translation Project. Using po files is simple enough for a translator (and fairly well documented). Note that debian-installer goes very far back from boot-floppies in respect to i18n. Exactly, and since i18n is such a complicated matter, it makes sense to use what has been produced by others who have thought a lot about it (e.g. gettext) instead of producing something ourselves that may or may not be good enough. boot-floppies worked around the size constraints by loading locale information from file on CD-Rom, if it was available. (xlp.tgz). Nod. I'm not 100% up to speed on what the single floppy is supposed to be able to do (bootstrap for systems that can't boot from CDs and netinstall I suppose, but what else?) This is a tough nut to crack as we say in Sweden. Regards, Martin signature.asc Description: Detta =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4r?= en digitalt signeradmeddelandedel
Re: Woody Installation
Tollef Fog Heen wrote: Hi Tollef Thanks for the extremely fast answer. You can choose kernels etc by choosing which CD to use. But then you have to know which kernel is on which CD. So here, too, a short note would be helpful (like kernel xxx on CD yyy) | As I had to disable all drives except /dev/hda I'll have to to without a | swap drive. | Mounting /dev/sda4 Uhm, you are saying you only had hda here, but then continuing to mount sda4? Sorry: all drives except /dev/sda, of course | Install Kernel and Driver Modules : pressed enter : skipped by install | routine (not good) Parse error. What to do now? File a bug report? | Why not tell users how to enter parameters? Because it is dependend on the kernel module? But couldn't each driver bring its own message? Would make it much more user friendly. | + vfat : OK | (No description available) : That's a joke, isn't it | + nfs: OK | (No description available) : That's a joke, isn't it file bugs against modconf. How do I do this thru windoze? Some docs available? | Select Installation Medium (didn't we have that before and before ...) I usually install base from the network, though I may install the kernel from cd, so this is a sane question. | So, Linux seems to scan for several scsi-adapters. How to disable this? Make a new initrd or compile your own kernel? No sources on my CD set. Will try and have al look at initrd | hdc: [PTBL] [2491/255/63] hdc1 hdc5 hdc6 hdc7 | | What's that? Why? Seems to be Partition table / CHS, but why? Asking those who make the installation system why the kernel prints stuff in a particular way isn't too productive. I suggest you ask those on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good point here. Will do this. | Loading modules: | unix af_packet ne2k-pci ne2k-pci.c: v1.02 for Linux 2.2 | ??? af_packet: what's that, who installed that? packet socket, iirc. I don't want to use iirc, so can I delete it? | Parport? I only want to print thru my parallel port. No scanners, No | CD-ROMs, nothing else. you still need a kernel driver. Shouldn't lp alone do the work. Normally I compile my own kernel, but without sources... | Q: How secure are passwords like 'I1,just4.want4 in2 No_of_Chars11'. Can | they easily be cracked too? (Meaningful sentence + special chars on the | same key on all keyboards) quite. The Debian installation is not supposed to be a beginner's course on UNIX. Sure, just a question along the way. Thanks You installed base and said no to dselect and tasksel, that means you have a minimal system. I always thought less was the preferred pager in Linux, so I would rather expect it than more. | How do I find out how to find out how to find out any information on | anything in Debian? Read the docs? Where to find them (debian specific) if you don't know where to start looking. Serious question. | For some stupid reason it insists on /dev/cdrom (direct access to a dev | file, aaargh) which | points to /dev/scd0, why not to /dev/sr0 ??? | How to get rid of ide-pci (might cause that scd0). And how to set up apt | so it will only access /mnt/sd32 (mount point for /dev/sr0). idepci is your kernel flavor. And if you want apt-cdrom to work properly, it needs to know the block device. | But apt insists on /cdrom. How can I change that to /mnt/cd32 /etc/fstab. tried that, didn't work. We are not your servants. We do our best. Throwing shit in our face is useless. Of course not. If it came over like that, sorry. The problems I have might also be the problems of others. Maybe providing more info during installation might make debian more appealing. So far I only worked in text mode doing all the stuff that would take far to long under windoze (especially sorting, file processing (sed / awk etc) ). X was on my boxes, but hardly ever used. No that I am planning to move over for good, I have to install more stuff and will also see more points where _I_ think more information will be helpful. I wouldn't call this throwing shit - at least that was never intended. | What happens if you accidentally hit no. Will the next scan delete the I suggest you use dselect or aptitude, since you know what you want and don't want. But the big question is: What's it called and where is it. As the CD-structure has greatly changed from a task / field-oriented to a first_letter_of_app_name-structure it's quite difficult to search no. apt-cache might not always be helpful. | So let's try X only. (And have fun afterwards lloking for all the apps | one by one) | Eh? X installs bc, biff, binutils, bison, cpp, ispell, cpp, gdb? | Strange. Why is that strange? I didn't expect them in X | xdm? I don't want any graphical login. Then don't install xdm. I never asked for them. During another installation (on my laptop) I was presented a menu from which to choose a gdm without a choice to say no, thanks, don't want this. Somehow it seems
Re: Woody Installation
Mr Axel Schlicht, I am not an installation master but I think that I could try answering some of your questions. First a quick introduction. The debian installer you used will probably be superceded by a new installer that is being written from scratch, i.e. it is not an improuvement of the dbootstrap code you are using. If you are courious you could probably try it from CVS: http://cvs.debian.org/debian-installer/ The second warning is that you are referring to errors that should be addressed to different target: - Linuxland, for the CD that you got, - Debian, for the installation procedure, - Kernel, for the problems about SoundBlaster and other modules. Said that, I would reply to some of your points. 1. The documentation about the sb module and all its arguments is /usr/src/kernel-source-2.4.18/Documentation/sound/Soundblaster Of course the actual path will be different for a different kernel version. 2. I think that you should not setup the network and audio card while installing Debian. You should normally setup ONLY the modules you need for the installation itself (like scsi drivers.) 3. To setup the modules after the installation of Debian you need to create a file in /etc/modutils/. The files already there will be useful for understanding how they work. You still have more documentation on this in /usr/src/kernel-source-2.4.18/Documentation/modules.txt In that document you will find how to know what parameters a module needs (/sbin/modinfo -p sb) If you want to load some module at boot time, than insert its name in /etc/modules. 4. About the cdrom mount point. I *think* that Debian have a 'preferred' cdrom. Once you have a system set up, you should make a link from your /dev/sr0 to /dev/cdrom. In this way every program that try to access your cdrom will find it in /dev/cdrom regardless of which is your real cdrom device (scsi, ide, ...) The usual mount point for the cdrom in /cdrom. After Debian is installed you usually find a line like this one in /etc/fstab /dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,exec,noauto 5. The ide-scsi. Some program require a SCSI device. The ide-scsi software emulate the SCSI interface on an IDE device. If you need to activate it then you have to load the module *AND* use an argument during the loading of the linux kernel (i.e. in LILO or grub). If you do not set the argument for ide-scsi during boot then you do not have to worry about it. It is probably opened by some program but will not actually work since you did not provide the argument. An example of the argument is hdc=ide-scsi that means: create a faked SCSI device controller and a fakes device chain and a faked SCSI disk device that the emulator should map to the hdc device. 6. About the matrox driver. I am not an owner of a matrox card but I understood that XFree requires a driver for that board that is available from the matrox web site. 7. The CVS for the documentation is not available only under Linux. You use any CVS client on any unices or user WinCVS under MS-Windows. Moreover you have the HTTP interface in http://cvs.debian.org/ 8. The apt.conf file is documented in man. To have more information just type 'man apt.conf'. It this doesn't show up, then prabably you have a misconfigured man. Did you tried mandb? 9. mail. On a Debian system you need at least local mail in order to deliver mail from cron. If you use exim, then you may choice from a menu that will permit you a 'local delivery only' installation. You may run eximconfig anytime to change it. 10. Security update. This a different source for your apt. You may insert it in /etc/apt/sources.list and then run the apt frontend you like. The question about using root is strange: you need to have root privilege to install any package in Debian. There is no special rule in using security update since they are normal packages that fixes security bug in a stable distribution like woody. 11. tcpwrapper is way to secure your network connected machine at application level. To have more information on it look for the package tcpd. 12. The X resolution is shown in /var/log/XFree86.0.log. Look for a line like 'Virtual size is 1024x768 (pitch 1024)'. You may also find the actual resolution using the command xdpyinfo. 13. When you boot your system using the Debian kernel than you have a lot of driver installed. This is the reason that during boot you see many SCSI drivers trying to find its own hordware. To avoid it you have to recompile your kernel without these drivers. 14. The kernel source are available in a *BINARY* package and not only in the source package. You may install it via the package kernel-source with the correct version (the one you like.) Hope this help. At least for some problems. Bye, Giuseppe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of
cvs commit to base-config by porridge
Repository: base-config who:porridge time: Sun Sep 8 13:32:14 MDT 2002 Log Message: Updated polish translations (man pages and templates) Files: changed:apt-setup.pl.8 apt-setup.templates.pl base-config.pl.8 termwrap.pl.8 tzsetup.pl.8 tzsetup.templates.pl added: validlocale.pl.8 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit to base-config/debian by porridge
Repository: base-config/debian who:porridge time: Sun Sep 8 13:32:15 MDT 2002 Log Message: Updated polish translations (man pages and templates) Files: changed:changelog templates.pl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n requires setlocale
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 06:49:54PM +0200, Martin Sj?gren wrote: s??n 2002-09-08 klockan 17.31 skrev Junichi Uekawa: No templates should be in UTF-8. They need to be converted from their local encoding to the UTF-8 on the fly, or on creation of udebs. Why can't they be in UTF-8? My local encoding *is* UTF-8 (unless I misunderstand what you mean). And on-the-fly conversion is something that I want debconf to do, but it also requires specifying the encoding in the templates files. But I don't see the importance of templates not being in UTF-8. Precious few editors don't support UTF-8, and even if someone happens to use an editor that doesn't, there's iconv. Gtk 2 and hence Gnome 2 use UTF-8 for all text and po files, so it's not as if it can't be done. We used po files for boot-floppies, and I think it was quite easy to maintain, as far as po files went. But I'm used to po files. I'm used to po files too, being a member of the Swedish team in the Translation Project. Using po files is simple enough for a translator (and fairly well documented). Note that debian-installer goes very far back from boot-floppies in respect to i18n. Exactly, and since i18n is such a complicated matter, it makes sense to use what has been produced by others who have thought a lot about it (e.g. gettext) instead of producing something ourselves that may or may not be good enough. boot-floppies worked around the size constraints by loading locale information from file on CD-Rom, if it was available. (xlp.tgz). Nod. I'm not 100% up to speed on what the single floppy is supposed to be able to do (bootstrap for systems that can't boot from CDs and netinstall I suppose, but what else?) This is a tough nut to crack as we say in Sweden. For floppy installs, why not plan on having a floppy version available in each language rather than trying to do a multilingual floppy? -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual | |debian-imac: http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | To Have, Give All to All (ACIM) | ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n requires setlocale
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 05:14:56PM +0200, Martin Sjögren wrote: [...] * Should we even use debconf i18n (which is pretty limited) or po files as per gettext? [...] FYI I have written some tools to manage translated Debconf templates files with gettext and will send an ITP as soon as documentation is over. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
Karsten Merker wrote: It is described in the installation manual, which is on your CD set and also available online at: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-rescue-boot.en.html#s-install-cd Didn't look into it; thought ch stands for Chinese, and with no Chinese fonts istalled, why bother to look into it? file bugs against modconf. How do I do this thru windoze? Some docs available? http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting Will look into it. iirc = if I remember correctly = wenn ich micht recht erinnnere Blush. You need both of the unix and af_packet modules, they provide functionality that is needed by the installer. OK Look for example into /usr/share/doc/debian/FAQ/; if you do not have that directory, install the package doc-debian. A list of further documentation is available at http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals. Next on my look-into-list Thanks a lot. Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates
On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 10:36:41AM +0200, Martin Sjögren wrote:
mån 2002-09-02 klockan 10.27 skrev Denis Barbier:
I was unclear, sorry, here is the problematic template:
Template: mirror/country
Type: select
Choices: ${countries}
Default: United States
Description: Use a mirror from what country?
The goal is to find a mirror that is close to you on the network -- be
aware that near countries, or even your own, may not be the best choice.
But still, language is orthogonal to country. You don't want to
translate the country, not even the default value. If we always used the
ll_CC notation it would be possible, but it would be a lot of redundancy
involved.
In another email you told having misunderstood my position, now it's my turn
to try to misunderstand you ;)
What is your position about hostnames?
Template: mirror/http/mirror
Type: select
Choices: ${mirrors}
Default: http.us.debian.org
I definitely want to add
Default-fr: ftp.fr.debian.org
but am I the only translator interested in providing better defaults when
they are locale-dependent?
Denis
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cvs commit to boot-floppies/documentation by claush
Repository: boot-floppies/documentation who:claush time: Sun Sep 8 15:21:21 MDT 2002 Log Message: Danish update Files: changed:release-notes.da.sgml -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
Hi Christian installed, so the kernel-image source package is on the source CD, the kernel-image binary package is on your CD, the kernel-source source package is on the source CD, the kernel-source binary (binary-all) package is on the binary CDs, simple isn't it?). Well, my woody only has 7 Binary-CD-s and one Add-On-CD (Open Office). So, I never expected the kernel sources to be on them. find /cdrom -name '*kernel*' -print yielded kernel 2.2.20 and 2.4.xx apt-get install kernel-sources-2.2.20 kernel-sources-2.4.18 OK So now I think I can compile my own kernel CD-structure has greatly changed from a task / field-oriented to a first_letter_of_app_name-structure it's quite difficult to search no. apt-cache might not always be helpful. You typicall do not search on the CD for programs, thats what dselect and friends are for. What do you do if you are looking for a program with particular features but don't have the slightest idea as what it might be called. Here browsing the CD's has often been a good idea, but will no longer work with the new layout. they are not _in_ X, but xfree86 is not only one package, it depends on several other packages and the one or other package requires (or suggests) one of the packages you mentioned. If you use dselect to install packages, you should be able to see what packages require. And if you try to unselect one of those packages, it will tell you which package needs/recommends it. makes sense. | xdm? I don't want any graphical login. Then don't install xdm. I never asked for them. During another installation (on my laptop) I was presented a menu from which to choose a gdm without a choice to say no, thanks, don't want this. Somehow it seems to default to installing a gdm. dkpg -r xdm dpkg: dependency problems prevent removal of xdm x-window-system depends on xdm so I cant't remove it, but I think it should not be installed by default. Thanks for the help Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
Giuseppe Sacco wrote: Hi Giuseppe First a quick introduction. The debian installer you used will probably be superceded by a new installer that is being written from scratch, i.e. it is not an improuvement of the dbootstrap code you are using. If you are courious you could probably try it from CVS: http://cvs.debian.org/debian-installer/ Will look into that (as well as dbootstrap). 1. The documentation about the sb module and all its arguments is /usr/src/kernel-source-2.4.18/Documentation/sound/Soundblaster Of course the actual path will be different for a different kernel version. 3. To setup the modules after the installation of Debian you need to create a file in /etc/modutils/. The files already there will be useful for understanding how they work. You still have more documentation on this in /usr/src/kernel-source-2.4.18/Documentation/modules.txt In that document you will find how to know what parameters a module needs (/sbin/modinfo -p sb) Now that I have found the kernel source on the BINARY CDs I can go on. 4. About the cdrom mount point. I *think* that Debian have a 'preferred' cdrom. Once you have a system set up, you should make a link from your /dev/sr0 to /dev/cdrom. In this way every program that try to access your cdrom will find it in /dev/cdrom regardless of which is your real cdrom device (scsi, ide, ...) The usual mount point for the cdrom in /cdrom. After Debian is installed you usually find a line like this one in /etc/fstab /dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,exec,noauto I would like to have apt read from /mnt/cd32. Which file do I have to tweak now? I. e. whre does apt store ist predilection for /cdrom or is it compiled in? 5. The ide-scsi. Some program require a SCSI device. The ide-scsi software emulate the SCSI interface on an IDE device. If you need to activate it then you have to load the module *AND* use an argument during the loading of the linux kernel (i.e. in LILO or grub). If you do not set the argument for ide-scsi during boot then you do not have to worry about it. It is probably opened by some program but will not actually work since you did not provide the argument. An example of the argument is hdc=ide-scsi that means: create a faked SCSI device controller and a fakes device chain and a faked SCSI disk device that the emulator should map to the hdc device. I have 3 SCSI CD-ROMs and a SCSI harddisk, so most programs should be happy. No compiling a no kernel, ide-scsi will be dead. Never had any problems befor w/o it. 6. About the matrox driver. I am not an owner of a matrox card but I understood that XFree requires a driver for that board that is available from the matrox web site. I looked at xfree86.org again. They say it's part of the svga-driver. I think I will ask again in debian-x with copy of my config file attached. 7. The CVS for the documentation is not available only under Linux. You use any CVS client on any unices or user WinCVS under MS-Windows. Moreover you have the HTTP interface in http://cvs.debian.org/ Good to know. 8. The apt.conf file is documented in man. To have more information just type 'man apt.conf'. It this doesn't show up, then prabably you have a misconfigured man. Did you tried mandb? Found it now, it's /etc/apt/sources.list 9. mail. On a Debian system you need at least local mail in order to deliver mail from cron. If you use exim, then you may choice from a menu that will permit you a 'local delivery only' installation. You may run eximconfig anytime to change it. Local mail is installed and will soon be configured, but I have to retrieve mail from several ISPs and also want to read several languages not using Roman characters. Will ask this again in debian-isp. 10. Security update. This a different source for your apt. You may insert it in /etc/apt/sources.list and then run the apt frontend you like. The question about using root is strange: you need to have root privilege to install any package in Debian. There is no special rule in using security update since they are normal packages that fixes security bug in a stable distribution like woody. To run apt-get, you must be root, so that means to access the web as root. I don't like the idea. Is there a way to do this wothout being root? 11. tcpwrapper is way to secure your network connected machine at application level. To have more information on it look for the package tcpd. OK 12. The X resolution is shown in /var/log/XFree86.0.log. Look for a line like 'Virtual size is 1024x768 (pitch 1024)'. You may also find the actual resolution using the command xdpyinfo. Should help. 13. When you boot your system using the Debian kernel than you have a lot of driver installed. This is the reason that during boot you see many SCSI drivers trying to find its own
Re: i18n requires setlocale
* Chris Tillman | For floppy installs, why not plan on having a floppy version available | in each language rather than trying to do a multilingual floppy? Because we will then have a zillion different floppies to choose from? :) -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates
sön 2002-09-08 klockan 23.09 skrev Denis Barbier:
But still, language is orthogonal to country. You don't want to
translate the country, not even the default value. If we always used the
ll_CC notation it would be possible, but it would be a lot of redundancy
involved.
In another email you told having misunderstood my position, now it's my turn
to try to misunderstand you ;)
What is your position about hostnames?
Template: mirror/http/mirror
Type: select
Choices: ${mirrors}
Default: http.us.debian.org
I definitely want to add
Default-fr: ftp.fr.debian.org
but am I the only translator interested in providing better defaults when
they are locale-dependent?
France != French. Isn't French spoken in quite a lot more countries than
France? For example Canada...
Also, a pretty standard policy when translating things is to try not to
change the meaning of the text. If I'm in the USA while installing
Debian, I might want to use Swedish during the installation, though I
definitely don't want to use ftp.se.d.o. Yes, I can change back the
default, but isn't the Usually, ftp.your country code.debian.org is a
good choice. enough?
We had a discussion about it on IRC a while back, I can't seem to find
it in my logs though :(
Regards,
Martin
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Re: Woody Installation
Axel Schlicht wrote: 12. The X resolution is shown in /var/log/XFree86.0.log. Look for a line like 'Virtual size is 1024x768 (pitch 1024)'. You may also find the actual resolution using the command xdpyinfo. Should help. Found the mistake Subsection Display Depth * Modes * EndSubSection did not contain any modes. Entered them manually, X seems to run no, no border, nice outfit. Think that was it. Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
* Axel Schlicht
I'll only answer stuff where I see that other's haven't answered.
| Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
| Make a new initrd or compile your own kernel?
|
| No sources on my CD set. Will try and have al look at initrd
man mkinitrd is a good start.
| you still need a kernel driver.
|
| Shouldn't lp alone do the work. Normally I compile my own kernel, but
| without sources...
I think you need both.
| | How do I find out how to find out how to find out any information on
| | anything in Debian?
| Read the docs?
|
| Where to find them (debian specific) if you don't know where to
| start looking. Serious question.
The install manual has a lot of information.
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-moreinfo.en.html
has some pointers.
| We are not your servants. We do our best. Throwing shit in our face
| is useless.
|
| Of course not. If it came over like that, sorry.
| The problems I have might also be the problems of others. Maybe
| providing more info during installation might make debian more
| appealing.
Sure, it's just a bit demotivating to mostly getting reports saying
«this doesn't work, this doesn't work», some in a quite harsh tone. I
apologize for my harsh reply, I should have known better than to
answer that way.
| | What happens if you accidentally hit no. Will the next scan delete the
| I suggest you use dselect or aptitude, since you know what you want
| and don't want.
|
| But the big question is: What's it called and where is it. As the
| CD-structure has greatly changed from a task / field-oriented to a
| first_letter_of_app_name-structure it's quite difficult to search no.
| apt-cache might not always be helpful.
aptitude is a package browser, similar to dselect (but has a lot
better UI). There you can also peek at what the different tasks
depends on
| | xdm? I don't want any graphical login.
| Then don't install xdm.
|
| I never asked for them. During another installation (on my laptop) I was
| presented a menu from which to choose a gdm without a choice to say no,
| thanks, don't want this. Somehow it seems to default to installing a
| gdm.
The desktop task, most likely. Please file a wishlist bug against
against {kdm,xdm,gdm} asking them to offer a choice «none».
| | Binutils: Kernel link failure info. Nice. Affects which kernels? 2.2.*,
| | 2.4.*
| | 2.2.17 in Potato (2.2.r0) did link OK). Info should be saved to disk, so
| | scribbling down again.
|
| It is.
|
| Where? And (once again) how do I find out if and where something is
| written?
It should be sent to root's mailbox, and it should have been
documented under /usr/share/doc/binutils (which I just checked, and it
doesn't seem to be).
| Then I suggest you sit down and write that documentation. Scratch
| your own itch.
|
| I would be willing to do so, but as I hate programming, I won't read
| source code. If the programmers did provide at least a short (and
| complete) list of keywords and an outline of the way they intend their
| programs to work + how to find that list, I should be starting out quite
| soon.
(speaking for myself here): I suck at documentation. If a person asks
how something works (or is supposed to work), I can tell them, quite
well, but there is something which makes it hard for me to write
decent docs. If somebody like you came along and asked all those
questions, I'd be happy to answer.
| uhm, what OS does _not_ have a CVS client those days?
|
| But: I cannot connect using Linux, and it's not possible to do so under
| Windows. So offering a second way of accessing them might be a good
| idea.
WinCVS? Or, you can download them off the web using viewCVS (the web
interface), though the latter is most likely quite painful,
considering the number of files.
| In closing.
| Imagine somebody new to Linux. Wouldn't you too like Linux to be easier
| to install. the more information you find during installation, the
| easier it will be to install. Information available AFTER you installed
| will not be accessible while you install. So my plea here is to provide
| more of it during installation.
Indeed. Which is why I am spending a lot of time rewriting the
installation system right now. :) It'll be a lot better.
--
Tollef Fog Heen,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' :
`. `'
`-
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Re: Woody Installation
4. About the cdrom mount point. I *think* that Debian have a 'preferred' cdrom. Once you have a system set up, you should make a link from your /dev/sr0 to /dev/cdrom. In this way every program that try to access your cdrom will find it in /dev/cdrom regardless of which is your real cdrom device (scsi, ide, ...) The usual mount point for the cdrom in /cdrom. After Debian is installed you usually find a line like this one in /etc/fstab /dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,exec,noauto I would like to have apt read from /mnt/cd32. Which file do I have to tweak now? I. e. whre does apt store ist predilection for /cdrom or is it compiled in? from 'man apt-cdrom': --cdrom Mount point; specify the location to mount the cdrom. This mount point must be listed in /etc/fstab and propely configured. Configuration Item: Acquire::cdrom::mount. 9. mail. On a Debian system you need at least local mail in order to deliver mail from cron. If you use exim, then you may choice from a menu that will permit you a 'local delivery only' installation. You may run eximconfig anytime to change it. Local mail is installed and will soon be configured, but I have to retrieve mail from several ISPs and also want to read several languages not using Roman characters. Will ask this again in debian-isp. You may use fetchmail to get your email, then probably any MUA (mail user agent) will work. I think that you could use mutt on a utf-8 enabled xterm. Better solutions in debian-user mailing list. 10. Security update. This a different source for your apt. You may insert it in /etc/apt/sources.list and then run the apt frontend you like. The question about using root is strange: you need to have root privilege to install any package in Debian. There is no special rule in using security update since they are normal packages that fixes security bug in a stable distribution like woody. To run apt-get, you must be root, so that means to access the web as root. I don't like the idea. Is there a way to do this wothout being root? You have to be root. If you don't want to be root than you could probably give the right to use apt to some user vua the program called sudo. Bye, Giuseppe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 11:51:43PM +0200, Martin Sjögren wrote: [...] France != French. Isn't French spoken in quite a lot more countries than France? For example Canada... Isn't English spoken in quite a lot more countries than United States? ;) Why is United States a good default value whereas France is not for French speaking people? Also, a pretty standard policy when translating things is to try not to change the meaning of the text. Huh? I only want to change the default value, how does it have an impact on the meaning of the text? If I'm in the USA while installing Debian, I might want to use Swedish during the installation, though I definitely don't want to use ftp.se.d.o. Yes, I can change back the default, Exactly. but isn't the Usually, ftp.your country code.debian.org is a good choice. enough? Then why is a default value provided? Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they choose a language and provided default values do not take this information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors, default system language, etc.). Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 12:28:07AM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 11:51:43PM +0200, Martin Sjögren wrote: Then why is a default value provided? Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they choose a language and provided default values do not take this information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors, default system language, etc.). I agree. And boot-floppies works that way. If I choose French install, I got french mirror. -- Thomas Poindessous [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Serverprobleme ??
Hallo, Du hast Recht,ich hatte Serverprobleme ! Mein Domainserver ist offline !! :-( Keine Ahnung warum!!! Aber ich habe wieder alles im Griff. Die Seite ist jetzt zu erreichen unter : http://erotikpur.yeah.net/ Probier es mal aus und mail mir mal ob das so okay ist. Bis dann -- Original Message - From: Andre Bischoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Serverprobleme?? Hallo Jasmina sag mal hast Du Serverprobleme?? Ich wollte mir mal Deine neue Seite anschauen, aber unter Deiner Adresse tut sich nichts! Dabei war ich so neugierig auf die neue Page. Kannst Du mir mal Deinen neuen LINK schicken so das ich mir die Seite mal anschauen kann?? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: care to upload new busybox?
On Sun Sep 08, 2002 at 02:25:54PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: Hi, it seems like there is a bug in zcat in busybox, where: 14:01 Marvin-- while (file_count == 0 || optind argc) 14:02 Marvin-- it increases optind, but not file_count This seems to be fixed in the development version. Care to upload a fixed package? k, I'll do that this evening, -Erik -- Erik B. Andersen http://codepoet-consulting.com/ --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
You, rather I, unpack the CDs, notice that we no longer need sources,
call the maker (Linuxland, Munich, Germany) and are told that they are
setting up a list of those interested in sources and - by the end of
next week - will actually start burning them for a small fee. Nice, but
that means that I won't be able to create my own kernel afterwards.
Weird to sell Linux without sources.
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-post-install.en.html#s-kernel-baking
Sources for all programs are required to be available from your vendor, and
are also available online at http;//packages.debian.org/package-name (among
others).
Now, after inserting CD#1 into /dev/sr0 we are greeted by this charming
and encouraging little message:
(If it fails try the other CDs)
Do you have a suggested rewording? It seems to be succinct, accurate and
to the point. A longer explanation would explain that we have tried hard
to accomodate as many different machine architectures as possible, by
providing differently configured boot kernels on the different CDs,
one of which should boot on most any machine. But, that's covered in
much more detail in
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-rescue-boot.en.html#s-install-cd
ISOLINUX 1.67/debian-cd 2002-05-14 isolinux: Loading spec packet, trying
to wing it...
isolinux; Failed to locate CD-ROM device; boot failed
So Debian is still unable to boot from a mixed system, i. e. starting
from a scsi-device with ide-devices present. Will work the other way
round. No problem with windoze, OS/2 et. al. in such a situation.
(not a new bug, present since at least 2.0 (hamm? slink?)
I don't believe this is true; if it is, it should be added to the docs.
What is more likely, is that it needs a kernel with the correct scsi drivers
(which you get by picking the appropriate boot flavor).
So now we try CD #2
Whow, now we get a welcome screen
and - via F3 - are presented with a few options:
linux, ramdisk{0,1}, floppy{0,1}, and rescue. Not much of a choice for
kernels.
If isolinux had worked on your machine, you would have been given a
choice of kernels. Since it didn't you have the backup plan: try
different CDs.
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-rescue-boot.en.html#s-install-cd
I could go on here (and already did so in the first try) just to find
out that lilo is still unable to write to the correct hard disk in a
mixed system (see above).
Can't speak to that. Bug lilo?
So, the old game again: diable ide ports AND set all hds to 'none'.
Inserting CD#1 again and rebooting
same result, very strange. (Debian based Knoppix e. g. would have no
problem here).
Yuck.
So CD#2
accepting default (linux)
and we get:
modprobe: modprobe: Can't open dependencies file
/lib/modules/2.2.20/modules.dep
(No such file or directory)
No worry, you haven't installed yet.
And now the first splash screen
... boot-floppies version 3.0.23
... built on 2002-05-15 by Adam Di Carlo
Where the debian website and Installation Instructions link is displayed.
I wish the paper manual you received was the instructions, as you assumed.
As I had to disable all drives except /dev/hda I'll have to to without a
swap drive.
...
Mounting /dev/sda4
Install Kernel and Driver Modules : pressed enter : skipped by install
routine (not good)
What happened? I don't understand. It did nothing? This would be the next
dialog:
Select Installation Medium : CD-Rom chosen
Install Kernel and Driver Modules
changed CD for CD#1
enter, skipped again by install routine
?
Found a Debian CD-ROM
Finally found drivers (what about telling users which CD to insert for
modules?)
I don't think you need to insert a CD for modules; they are loaded at
boot AFAIK.
So far I have always compiled my own kernel (just for this reason, but
without any sources I can't but use modules)
In any case the limited installation system would not support compiling
a kernel.
So second attempt
Command-Line-Arguments
irq=5
Error message: I/O, IRQ, and DMA are mandatory... installation failed
How do I separate entries? Commata, spaces, semicola, cola ?
I agree, the module installation process is cumbersome. The more advanced
detection tools being used in the new installer should help a lot.
Now, sb16 requires TWO DMA-adresses 1 AND 5), TWO ports (220 AND 330)
How to enter this?
/usr/doc/sb* /usr/cod/soundblaster* does not exist.
Since the installation system was designed to fit on a floppy, and
must work in a ramdisk, it has no documentation or manuals. I think a
good suggestion for CD builders would be to add a documentation CD;
in fact I just submitted a bug asking for one.
this out? Why not tell users how to enter parameters?
Thankfully, I use powerpc where all modules I know of can autodetect.
usb-section : error-message for 0.0001 sec, please allow more time for
the older (over 20) guys like me. Just wanted to see what usb might
Re: i18n requires setlocale
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 11:43:17PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Chris Tillman | For floppy installs, why not plan on having a floppy version available | in each language rather than trying to do a multilingual floppy? Because we will then have a zillion different floppies to choose from? Right, but they're an organized zillion. One user is likely to need only one language, so from that viewpoint he gets to choose from a few. -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual | |debian-imac: http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | To Have, Give All to All (ACIM) | ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
On Sun, 2002-09-08 at 17:38, Axel Schlicht wrote: CD-structure has greatly changed from a task / field-oriented to a first_letter_of_app_name-structure it's quite difficult to search no. apt-cache might not always be helpful. You typicall do not search on the CD for programs, thats what dselect and friends are for. What do you do if you are looking for a program with particular features but don't have the slightest idea as what it might be called. Here browsing the CD's has often been a good idea, but will no longer work with the new layout. apt-cache search enter keywords here apt-cache show package name This will often provide a reasonable selection of packages to choose from although sometimes there is a lot of extra packages to sort through. Another place is to look is http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages where there is a categorized listing and a searching capability. -- Stephen Depooter -- Debian user since last March :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 04:41:34PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: Axel Schlicht wrote: man apt.conf man apt-config apropos apt - apt : nothing appropriate (that's ridiculous) Again, this is part of the standard installation you skipped. [...] Only specific marked sections are handled by debconf... Man Xwrapper : no manual entry for debconf Apropos Xwrapper : nothing appropriate Well, yes Unfortunately, apropos doesn't work out of the box. You have to run mandb in order for it to build the apropos database, this is done the first time cron runs, but on a system like mine where cron never runs, well it just doesn't happen. Just mandb I fixed this in man-db 2.3.20-20, after a fashion: the database won't get updated over time unless you have cron enabled, but this is difficult to avoid without making man a pain to use; at least you get a database built with the man pages from base packages. Do you think it's worth me making an upload to stable with just this change, to see if it'll be let into 3.0r1? -- Colin Watson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
Denis Barbier wrote: Isn't English spoken in quite a lot more countries than United States? ;) Why is United States a good default value whereas France is not for French speaking people? Because the US is reasonably well connected to everywhere and has Debian's main round-robin mirror network in it. If these facts of servers and network topology should change, we should then change the default of course. A lot more languages than English are spoken in the US too. You really think a Spanish speaker in California or Tennessee wants to hit a mirror in Spain? Then why is a default value provided? A default value is probably going to be *shown* whether you explicitly provide one or not. Whatever country starts with A and is at the top of the list is probably not a good choice. Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they choose a language and provided default values do not take this information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors, default system language, etc.). Bored? If you want to provide sane location-based defaults, then ask the user where they are. This information, if in a reasonable form, can be re-used by base-config, which already has to ask about it for time zone setup. (Or do you think I should force all French speaker's computers to be set to GMT when they install? :-P) -- see shy jo, listening to Spanish on the radio in Tennesee, oddly enough msg21972/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Woody Installation
Chris Tillman wrote:
Hi Chris
ISOLINUX 1.67/debian-cd 2002-05-14 isolinux: Loading spec packet, trying
to wing it...
isolinux; Failed to locate CD-ROM device; boot failed
So Debian is still unable to boot from a mixed system, i. e. starting
from a scsi-device with ide-devices present. Will work the other way
round. No problem with windoze, OS/2 et. al. in such a situation.
(not a new bug, present since at least 2.0 (hamm? slink?)
I don't believe this is true; if it is, it should be added to the docs.
What is more likely, is that it needs a kernel with the correct scsi drivers
(which you get by picking the appropriate boot flavor).
Take a fully configured linux system (condition is scsi AND ide, boot
sequence ide first) and invoke lilo.
Restart, and lilo will hang. Disable all ide drives and lilo will find
and write to the scsi drive.
I already asked this question a couple of years ago in the compuserve
*nix fora, but could not get a solution. Same situation with Suse,
Redhat, Caldera ...
Somehow Linux doesn't get the order right. My bios shows the scsi drive
as 0x80 / c: but thereafter you cant't run lilo. Revese it (ide first)
and you won't have any problems.
Also happens with a self-tailored kernel with the correct scsi-driver.
Sources for all programs are required to be available from your vendor, and
are also available online at http;//packages.debian.org/package-name (among
others).
I called them, and, as I already say, they are now collecting orders and
will burn and sell the CDs for a nominal fee. I didn't know that the
kernel sorces are packed at buinaries. Found and unpacked them, so
everything shopuild be fine now.
Now, after inserting CD#1 into /dev/sr0 we are greeted by this charming
and encouraging little message:
(If it fails try the other CDs)
Do you have a suggested rewording? It seems to be succinct, accurate and
to the point. A longer explanation would explain that we have tried hard
to accomodate as many different machine architectures as possible, by
providing differently configured boot kernels on the different CDs,
one of which should boot on most any machine. But, that's covered in
much more detail in
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-rescue-boot.en.html#s-install-cd
What about providing something like indicating a file which lists all
possible kernels on all CD's. should be a text file so that a simple cat
| more will sufice to read it.
So now we try CD #2
Whow, now we get a welcome screen
and - via F3 - are presented with a few options:
linux, ramdisk{0,1}, floppy{0,1}, and rescue. Not much of a choice for
kernels.
If isolinux had worked on your machine, you would have been given a
choice of kernels. Since it didn't you have the backup plan: try
different CDs.
Might have something to do with the SCSI / IDE thing. Maybe a bug.
Sameone wiser than I might inspect it.
modprobe: modprobe: Can't open dependencies file
/lib/modules/2.2.20/modules.dep
(No such file or directory)
No worry, you haven't installed yet.
Worked fine after installing.
Install Kernel and Driver Modules : pressed enter : skipped by install
routine (not good)
What happened? I don't understand. It did nothing? This would be the next
dialog:
It just alternated between the two. Might have been caused by the wrong
CD being inserted.
A error message telling the user to insert the correct disk would surely
stop this.
I don't think you need to insert a CD for modules; they are loaded at
boot AFAIK.
I meant modules ( drivers = modconf
I agree, the module installation process is cumbersome. The more advanced
detection tools being used in the new installer should help a lot.
After some fiddling I got it to work, but many potential users might
throw in the towel at this stage.
Since the installation system was designed to fit on a floppy, and
must work in a ramdisk, it has no documentation or manuals. I think a
good suggestion for CD builders would be to add a documentation CD;
in fact I just submitted a bug asking for one.
Thankfully, I use powerpc where all modules I know of can autodetect.
Lucky you
If it was a true error message, I'm sure it would have stayed
visible. Probably just a progress type message.
Maybe usb was listed, but not available at the moment. As I don't intend
to use it (I just wanted to peek and see what's provides) I won't
bother.
(where does it hide the parameters to sb
Searching for files with almost the same datestamp as /etc/modules-
/etc/modules/conf)
Couldn't the first line of /etc/modules be something like
... all parameters are in /etc/modules.conf )
Well, modules.conf states at the top that it is controlled by the
system, not to be directly edited. So that would be inappropriate.
Of course, but here you can see which paramters are being passed. Nice
place to look if something doesn't work.
Network
...
DNS Server address : blank With several ISPs,
Re: Woody Installation
Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
* Axel Schlicht
| Make a new initrd or compile your own kernel?
| No sources on my CD set. Will try and have al look at initrd
man mkinitrd is a good start.
found the sources, am on my way.
| you still need a kernel driver.
|
| Shouldn't lp alone do the work. Normally I compile my own kernel, but
| without sources...
I think you need both.
Compiling will do it, as before.
| Where to find them (debian specific) if you don't know where to
| start looking. Serious question.
The install manual has a lot of information.
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-moreinfo.en.html
has some pointers.
I have been given many good links so far. Will delve into the whole
matter.
| We are not your servants. We do our best. Throwing shit in our face
| is useless.
| Of course not. If it came over like that, sorry.
| The problems I have might also be the problems of others. Maybe
| providing more info during installation might make debian more
| appealing.
Sure, it's just a bit demotivating to mostly getting reports saying
this doesn't work, this doesn't work, some in a quite harsh tone. I
apologize for my harsh reply, I should have known better than to
answer that way.
I might have shown too much of my frustration, but this is the first
time I ever had such a hassle with Debien / Linux.
| | What happens if you accidentally hit no. Will the next scan delete the
| I suggest you use dselect or aptitude, since you know what you want
| and don't want.
|
| But the big question is: What's it called and where is it. As the
| CD-structure has greatly changed from a task / field-oriented to a
| first_letter_of_app_name-structure it's quite difficult to search no.
| apt-cache might not always be helpful.
aptitude is a package browser, similar to dselect (but has a lot
better UI). There you can also peek at what the different tasks
depends on
Will give it a closer look.
| | xdm? I don't want any graphical login.
| Then don't install xdm.
| I never asked for them. During another installation (on my laptop) I was
| presented a menu from which to choose a gdm without a choice to say no,
| thanks, don't want this. Somehow it seems to default to installing a
| gdm.
The desktop task, most likely. Please file a wishlist bug against
against {kdm,xdm,gdm} asking them to offer a choice none.
Will file - as suggested - several bugs soon.
| | Binutils: Kernel link failure info. Nice. Affects which kernels? 2.2.*,
| | 2.4.*
| | 2.2.17 in Potato (2.2.r0) did link OK). Info should be saved to disk, so
| | scribbling down again.
| It is.
| Where? And (once again) how do I find out if and where something is
| written?
It should be sent to root's mailbox, and it should have been
documented under /usr/share/doc/binutils (which I just checked, and it
doesn't seem to be).
There was no mail, not even the normal welcome mail, but mail hasn't
been configured yet.
So, mea culpa.
| Then I suggest you sit down and write that documentation. Scratch
| your own itch.
|
| I would be willing to do so, but as I hate programming, I won't read
| source code. If the programmers did provide at least a short (and
| complete) list of keywords and an outline of the way they intend their
| programs to work + how to find that list, I should be starting out quite
| soon.
(speaking for myself here): I suck at documentation. If a person asks
how something works (or is supposed to work), I can tell them, quite
well, but there is something which makes it hard for me to write
decent docs. If somebody like you came along and asked all those
questions, I'd be happy to answer.
Let me get networking / gatewaying etc. done and I will start out.
| uhm, what OS does _not_ have a CVS client those days?
|
| But: I cannot connect using Linux, and it's not possible to do so under
| Windows. So offering a second way of accessing them might be a good
| idea.
WinCVS? Or, you can download them off the web using viewCVS (the web
interface), though the latter is most likely quite painful,
considering the number of files.
Hope with a working DSL connection this problem will be history.
| In closing.
| Imagine somebody new to Linux. Wouldn't you too like Linux to be easier
| to install. the more information you find during installation, the
| easier it will be to install. Information available AFTER you installed
| will not be accessible while you install. So my plea here is to provide
| more of it during installation.
Indeed. Which is why I am spending a lot of time rewriting the
installation system right now. :) It'll be a lot better.
Please continue.
Thanks again for the long and helpful answer
Axel Schlicht
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Re: Woody Installation
Giuseppe Sacco wrote: 4. About the cdrom mount point. I *think* that Debian have a 'preferred' cdrom. Once you have a system set up, you should make a link from your /dev/sr0 to /dev/cdrom. In this way every program that try to access your cdrom will find it in /dev/cdrom regardless of which is your real cdrom device (scsi, ide, ...) The usual mount point for the cdrom in /cdrom. After Debian is installed you usually find a line like this one in /etc/fstab /dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,exec,noauto I would like to have apt read from /mnt/cd32. Which file do I have to tweak now? I. e. whre does apt store ist predilection for /cdrom or is it compiled in? from 'man apt-cdrom': --cdrom Mount point; specify the location to mount the cdrom. This mount point must be listed in /etc/fstab and propely configured. Configuration Item: Acquire::cdrom::mount. Was also answered by others. Will have to do some reading. 9. mail. On a Debian system you need at least local mail in order to deliver mail from cron. If you use exim, then you may choice from a menu that will permit you a 'local delivery only' installation. You may run eximconfig anytime to change it. Local mail is installed and will soon be configured, but I have to retrieve mail from several ISPs and also want to read several languages not using Roman characters. Will ask this again in debian-isp. You may use fetchmail to get your email, then probably any MUA (mail user agent) will work. I think that you could use mutt on a utf-8 enabled xterm. Better solutions in debian-user mailing list. I will ask again and in more detail on debian-isp. 10. Security update. This a different source for your apt. You may insert it in /etc/apt/sources.list and then run the apt frontend you like. The question about using root is strange: you need to have root privilege to install any package in Debian. There is no special rule in using security update since they are normal packages that fixes security bug in a stable distribution like woody. To run apt-get, you must be root, so that means to access the web as root. I don't like the idea. Is there a way to do this wothout being root? You have to be root. If you don't want to be root than you could probably give the right to use apt to some user vua the program called sudo. I just hate to have an outgoing connection as root. Maybe I will find / be told a good way to secure my system. Thanks a lot again Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
Colin Watson wrote: Unfortunately, apropos doesn't work out of the box. You have to run mandb in order for it to build the apropos database, this is done the first time cron runs, but on a system like mine where cron never runs, well it just doesn't happen. Just mandb did mandb Purging old database entries in /usr/share/man mandb: can't update index cache /var/cache/man/index.bt: No such file or directory. Processing manual paes under /usr/share/man fopen: No such file or directory Updating indes cache for path '/usr/share/man. Wait... mandb: warning: /usr/share/man/man1/vdex.1x.gz: whatis parse for vdesk(1x) failed ... Purging old database entries in /usr/local/man... mandb: can't update index cache /var/cache/man/oldlocal/index.bt: No such file or directory. Processing manual pages under /usr/local/man... fopen: No such file or directory ... Purging old database entries in /usr/X11R6/man... mandb: can't update index cache /var/cache/man/X11R6/index.bt: No such file or directory. Processing manual pages under /usr/X11R6/man... fopen: No such file or directory ... mandb no errors now Are those errors normal for a first invokation of mandb? I fixed this in man-db 2.3.20-20, after a fashion: the database won't get updated over time unless you have cron enabled, but this is difficult to avoid without making man a pain to use; at least you get a database built with the man pages from base packages. Do you think it's worth me making an upload to stable with just this change, to see if it'll be let into 3.0r1? I have never been involved in developing Debian, so I better should remain silent on this (although I appreciate all improvements). Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
Christian T. Steigies wrote: Moin, auch Moin apt-cache search or wajig search work quite nicely. Also dselect still sorts packages according to sections, and I bet that gives you much more information than a CD listing. You could also read the Packages file directly, but I guess apt-cache search uses that as an input. And if you insist on reading the files on the CD, find also works on CD-Roms. Will give aptitude / dselect etc. a try dkpg -r xdm dpkg: dependency problems prevent removal of xdm x-window-system depends on xdm so I cant't remove it, but I think it should not be installed by default. Of course you can remove it, x-window-system is only a task which pulls in a bunch of other packages, including xdm, because the standard user who wants the x-windows-system also wants xdm. You are the non-standard user. After installing the task, nobody stops you from removing the task and individual packages which were pulled in by that task. Its just a convenient thing to select one package and get X (or C development, or ...) going instead of selecting an xserver, some fonts, a windowmanager and a terminal emulator and maybe more manually. Its very easy to forget something and you wonder why X is not working. Been there, done that, xterm was my favourite. That helps. Thanks a lot Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
Stephen Depooter wrote: Hi apt-cache search enter keywords here Know this already, does indeed often come in handy, but often lists too many unrelated packages. apt-cache show package name Never tried this. This will often provide a reasonable selection of packages to choose from although sometimes there is a lot of extra packages to sort through. Another place is to look is http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages where there is a categorized listing and a searching capability. This sound good and helpful. Will browse there. Thanks a lot. Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n requires setlocale
Why can't they be in UTF-8? My local encoding *is* UTF-8 Your local encoding is a country default that has been used in the past, and which is used in your debconf templates file, assumed when you do not specify an encoding in your templates file. ISO-8859-? for most european countries, EUC-JP in Japan, and so on. Not what your environment variable holds. (unless I misunderstand what you mean). So there is a misunderstanding. And on-the-fly conversion is something that I want debconf to do, but it also requires specifying the encoding in the templates files. We know the encoding of the templates files, and we are going towards a on-the-fly conversion. But I don't see the importance of templates not being in UTF-8. They should not be in UTF-8 suddenly, without any signification of them being in UTF-8. Well, if they had been UTF-8 from the beginning, then that would be okay. Note that on-the-fly conversion using iconv is very expensive. $ du -sh /usr/lib/gconv/ 4.4M/usr/lib/gconv We are not going to fit that onto a floppy. I'm used to po files too, being a member of the Swedish team in the Translation Project. Using po files is simple enough for a translator (and fairly well documented). exactly. Exactly, and since i18n is such a complicated matter, it makes sense to use what has been produced by others who have thought a lot about it (e.g. gettext) instead of producing something ourselves that may or may not be good enough. ditto, but since debconf has been going in this direction, and joey hess made it the beast it is, it seems like we are sticking to it this way. boot-floppies worked around the size constraints by loading locale information from file on CD-Rom, if it was available. (xlp.tgz). Nod. I'm not 100% up to speed on what the single floppy is supposed to be able to do (bootstrap for systems that can't boot from CDs and netinstall I suppose, but what else?) El-torito bootable CD image ? Are we still using 2.88MB image is used for booting from the CD-Rom? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Junichi Uekawa http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer GPG Fingerprint : 17D6 120E 4455 1832 9423 7447 3059 BF92 CD37 56F4 Libpkg-guide: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 01:22:12AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 04:41:34PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: I fixed this in man-db 2.3.20-20, after a fashion: the database won't get updated over time unless you have cron enabled, but this is difficult to avoid without making man a pain to use; at least you get a database built with the man pages from base packages. Do you think it's worth me making an upload to stable with just this change, to see if it'll be let into 3.0r1? I think there's an expectation that a unix/linux system have working apropos. But the alternative is to tell people to mandb in the manual. I don't think it's worth the potential hassle, personally. -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual | |debian-imac: http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | To Have, Give All to All (ACIM) | ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Installation
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 03:12:28AM +0200, Axel Schlicht wrote: Chris Tillman wrote: (If it fails try the other CDs) Do you have a suggested rewording? It seems to be succinct, accurate and to the point. A longer explanation would explain that we have tried hard to accomodate as many different machine architectures as possible, by providing differently configured boot kernels on the different CDs, one of which should boot on most any machine. But, that's covered in much more detail in http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-rescue-boot.en.html#s-install-cd What about providing something like indicating a file which lists all possible kernels on all CD's. should be a text file so that a simple cat | more will sufice to read it. That would be the README's in /install/doc Archive path (only one available) : /instmnt We tried to not ask questions where only one response was possible; apparently this one was missed. So it will be remedied soon. No, as someone else mentioned we're not working on boot-floppies any more. We'll need help testing the new installer once it becomes available. You'd agree it's a minor problem? What can I delete? Are you really tight on disk space? With 20-40G disks, most users just don't worry about disk space at this level any more. You would be absolutely amazed how much of that M$ system you're leaving behind is useless on a particular machine. I simply hate having anything unneeded on my box. Maybe I'm slightly paranoid with all the stuff spying on you under windoze. (And I started out with an extremely expensive 10 MB harddisk a couple of years ago. So I'm still unwilling to waste space) In that case, you'll be interested in a little program called cruft. It needs decent documentation, too. Please submit a detailed bug report on base-config. There should be a way back. (BTW, reportbug is an excellent program to use to report bugs). Will do this. As I have to work in many languages, some of them with non-Roman letters, internationalization is very important and confusing for me. I hope you can help us clear this up for the user. Good point. It's the database of configuration questions you have asked and answered. The debconf man page is installed with debconf-doc, which is _not_ installed by default. Please write a bug on debconf asking that it either install a man page, or prohibit any other packages from using its name in vain. Will do. We would certainly appreciate your help in the testing and documentation areas. There are all too few people in Debian who are good documentors. Most are programmers who associate writing documentation with eating broccoli, and IMHO really appreciate having docs built for them by the people that can figure out how to use their programs. Most are willing to help you figure it out though. As soon as I have everything in place, especially the networking / gateway / securing part, I will come back. Offered translating already over a year ago, but have never been able to get Linux work with my modem / ISDN card. Now with DSL things should be better. Oh yeah. Definitely. Better faster. How shall I ever recommend Linux and especially Debian to anybody, if the installation is still so clumsy, and documentation (especially on how to configure something, the EXACT format with ALL options of config files etc.) is still either nonexistent or only to be found by a long time developer. You would have been helped a lot by the install manual, I think. Some of the details are properly hidden and defaulted until you investigate how else that program can serve you. There are many documentation weaknesses. Found the manual, will read it now. (So far I could alway install everything without to much trouble. Woody was the first version giving me a real nightmare.) Maybe it would be a nice idea to include a big file sumarizing all the changes in a eays to scan format. Espacially changed config tools and file formats. A list of changed app names was in the book included in my distro. Our attempt is the release notes (on the CD or website). Did you ask Google? Google and X is not the best combination. Maybe I didn't find the correct keywords, but I now have a couple of links to look into. Google and lynx get along pretty well. -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual | |debian-imac: http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | To Have, Give All to All (ACIM) | ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: i18n requires setlocale
On Sun, 8 Sep 2002 16:51:49 -0700 Chris Tillman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | For floppy installs, why not plan on having a floppy version available | in each language rather than trying to do a multilingual floppy? Because we will then have a zillion different floppies to choose from? Right, but they're an organized zillion. One user is likely to need only one language, so from that viewpoint he gets to choose from a few. Can we also have a zillion ISO images ? regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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´ËÓʼþΪÉÌÒµÐź¯£¬Èç¹ûÄú¶Ô´Ë²»¸ÐÐËȤÇëÁ¢¼´É¾³ý£»Èç¹ûÄú²»Ï£ÍûÔÙÊÕµ½´ËÓʼþÇëµ½http://filter.21gold.comÍ˶©£¬ÎÒÃǽ«»á°ÑÄúµÄÓÊÏäµØÖ·¹ýÂ˳öÁÐ±í¡£Ð»Ð»£¡ This mail is a business letter. If you are uninterested in this , please delete it immediately;If you do not hope to receive this mail again , please go to http://filter.21gold.com ,fill in your mail address ,and we will filter it out of our mail list. Thank you! ½ðÊÀ¼ÍÍøÂçȫеÄÍøÂ罨վ·½°¸£º ×ÔÓɸü¶à,Äú¿ÉÒÔÍêÈ«¶¨ÖÆ×Ô¼ºµÄÖ÷»ú Ëٶȸü¿ì,¸üÎȶ¨,Ñϸñ¿ØÖÆÖ÷»úÊýÁ¿ ¸üÓÅ»Ý,ÏÖÔÚÉêÇë¾ùÔùË͹ú¼ÊÓòÃû¡¢VIPÆóÒµÓÊÏä ÎÞ·çÏÕ,¿ªÍ¨ÊÔÓÃ7Ìì,ÂúÒâÔÙ¸¶¿î ×îµÍÒ»Äê½öÐè170Ôª¡£¼´¿ÉÓµÓÃÓòÃû+Ö÷»ú+ÆóÒµÓʾ֡£ ¶ÀÓеÄÓû§¹ÜÀíϵͳ¿ÉÒÔʵÏÖ£º ÔÚÏßÐÞ¸ÄFTPÃÜÂë¡¢ÔÚÏßWEBÍøÕ¾¹ÜÀí¡¢ ÔÚÏßÓòÃûDNS¹ÜÀí¡¢ÔÚÏß¿ªÍ¨ÆóÒµÓÊÏäµÈ »¹Óиü¶àÓÅ»ÝÌײ;´Çë·ÃÎÊ£ºhttp://www.21gold.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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debian-boot@lists.debian.org
´ËÓʼþΪÉÌÒµÐź¯£¬Èç¹ûÄú¶Ô´Ë²»¸ÐÐËȤÇëÁ¢¼´É¾³ý£»Èç¹ûÄú²»Ï£ÍûÔÙÊÕµ½´ËÓʼþÇëµ½http://filter.21gold.comÍ˶©£¬ÎÒÃǽ«»á°ÑÄúµÄÓÊÏäµØÖ·¹ýÂ˳öÁÐ±í¡£Ð»Ð»£¡ This mail is a business letter. If you are uninterested in this , please delete it immediately;If you do not hope to receive this mail again , please go to http://filter.21gold.com ,fill in your mail address ,and we will filter it out of our mail list. Thank you! ½ðÊÀ¼ÍÍøÂçȫеÄÍøÂ罨վ·½°¸£º ×ÔÓɸü¶à,Äú¿ÉÒÔÍêÈ«¶¨ÖÆ×Ô¼ºµÄÖ÷»ú Ëٶȸü¿ì,¸üÎȶ¨,Ñϸñ¿ØÖÆÖ÷»úÊýÁ¿ ¸üÓÅ»Ý,ÏÖÔÚÉêÇë¾ùÔùË͹ú¼ÊÓòÃû¡¢VIPÆóÒµÓÊÏä ÎÞ·çÏÕ,¿ªÍ¨ÊÔÓÃ7Ìì,ÂúÒâÔÙ¸¶¿î ×îµÍÒ»Äê½öÐè170Ôª¡£¼´¿ÉÓµÓÃÓòÃû+Ö÷»ú+ÆóÒµÓʾ֡£ ¶ÀÓеÄÓû§¹ÜÀíϵͳ¿ÉÒÔʵÏÖ£º ÔÚÏßÐÞ¸ÄFTPÃÜÂë¡¢ÔÚÏßWEBÍøÕ¾¹ÜÀí¡¢ ÔÚÏßÓòÃûDNS¹ÜÀí¡¢ÔÚÏß¿ªÍ¨ÆóÒµÓÊÏäµÈ »¹Óиü¶àÓÅ»ÝÌײ;´Çë·ÃÎÊ£ºhttp://www.21gold.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: American Online Services And Unknown Soul Complaint Against Link In E-Mail
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