Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
On Sun, Nov 12, 2006 at 03:57:25PM -0500, Rick Thomas wrote: Installing ntp by default (making it have priority standard) would be good for the many Debian users who have always-on network access. But it would be a problem for the minority who have no or only intermittent (e.g. dial-up) network access. For ntpd to really work properly you need a static IP address. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
On Nov 25, 2006, at 3:01 PM, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Sun, Nov 12, 2006 at 03:57:25PM -0500, Rick Thomas wrote: Installing ntp by default (making it have priority standard) would be good for the many Debian users who have always-on network access. But it would be a problem for the minority who have no or only intermittent (e.g. dial-up) network access. For ntpd to really work properly you need a static IP address. Well... I'd say stable rather than static. If the local IP address changes once a week, an NTP client will have little trouble weathering the change. Once an hour would be problematical. Once a day is in the grey area. Depending on the details, it may be desirable to restart the ntpd daemon when the IP address changes. For an NTP *server* to be effective as a server, a very stable IP address is, of course, mandatory. But most Debian users don't run NTP servers, and those who do know what they're doing and what is required to do it right. Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 04:10:40PM -0500, Rick Thomas wrote: On Nov 22, 2006, at 1:05 PM, Olaf van der Spek wrote: reopen 397649 thanks Could we have NTP by default? But it would be a problem for the minority who have no or only intermittent (e.g. dial-up) network access. Why would it be a problem? No network mean the Network Time Protocol won't work. Intermittent network (e.g. dial-up) means that NTP goes for long periods with no connection to the external time servers. The ntpd daemon is (mostly) OK with that, but some auto-dialers may see it's occasional polls as a reason to dial the ISP, which is probably not what the user expected. Instead of NTP you could use chrony which gets put offline with poff. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
Op 22-11-2006 om 23:02 schreef Olaf van der Spek: There's a checkbox in the Gnome clock applet to enable NTP. But that doesn't work if it's not installed and I doubt the average user is easily able to install NTP. Then (ab)use the Gnome clock applet to get NTP installed. Cheers Geert Stappers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
reopen 397649 thanks Could we have NTP by default? But it would be a problem for the minority who have no or only intermittent (e.g. dial-up) network access. Why would it be a problem? I leave it to the PTBs to figure out whether there is a compromise position. PTBs? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
On Wednesday 22 November 2006 19:05, Olaf van der Spek wrote: Could we have NTP by default? Having NTP by default is not a d-i team decision but would better be discussed on debian-devel. The option to use ntpdate or similar *during install* to set the hardware clock is a d-i decision and is something that is already on our radar. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
Frans Pop wrote: On Wednesday 22 November 2006 19:05, Olaf van der Spek wrote: Could we have NTP by default? Having NTP by default is not a d-i team decision but would better be discussed on debian-devel. Who's decision is it? -- Olaf van der Spek http://xccu.sf.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
On Nov 22, 2006, at 1:05 PM, Olaf van der Spek wrote: reopen 397649 thanks Could we have NTP by default? But it would be a problem for the minority who have no or only intermittent (e.g. dial-up) network access. Why would it be a problem? No network mean the Network Time Protocol won't work. Intermittent network (e.g. dial-up) means that NTP goes for long periods with no connection to the external time servers. The ntpd daemon is (mostly) OK with that, but some auto-dialers may see it's occasional polls as a reason to dial the ISP, which is probably not what the user expected. I leave it to the PTBs to figure out whether there is a compromise position. PTBs? Powers That Be (From the US TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer) Enjoy! Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
Rick Thomas wrote: No network mean the Network Time Protocol won't work. Intermittent network (e.g. dial-up) means that NTP goes for long periods with no connection to the external time servers. The ntpd daemon is (mostly) OK with that, but some auto-dialers may see it's occasional polls as a reason to dial the ISP, which is probably not what the user expected. NTP could be at least installed but disabled instead of not installed. Although I'd like to have it enabled by default. Isn't it possible to start/stop ntpd based on when the dial-up link is up? -- Olaf van der Spek http://xccu.sf.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
On Nov 22, 2006, at 4:18 PM, Olaf van der Spek wrote: Rick Thomas wrote: No network mean the Network Time Protocol won't work. Intermittent network (e.g. dial-up) means that NTP goes for long periods with no connection to the external time servers. The ntpd daemon is (mostly) OK with that, but some auto-dialers may see it's occasional polls as a reason to dial the ISP, which is probably not what the user expected. NTP could be at least installed but disabled instead of not installed. What's the point of installing something you're not going to enable? It's not that much harder to type aptitude install ntp than it is to type update-rc.d ntp defaults Although I'd like to have it enabled by default. Isn't it possible to start/stop ntpd based on when the dial-up link is up? Theoretically, yes. In practice, it would be a pain to get all the little fiddly bits exactly right -- not something I'd want to undertake. -- Olaf van der Spek http://xccu.sf.net/ Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
Rick Thomas wrote: On Nov 22, 2006, at 4:18 PM, Olaf van der Spek wrote: Rick Thomas wrote: No network mean the Network Time Protocol won't work. Intermittent network (e.g. dial-up) means that NTP goes for long periods with no connection to the external time servers. The ntpd daemon is (mostly) OK with that, but some auto-dialers may see it's occasional polls as a reason to dial the ISP, which is probably not what the user expected. NTP could be at least installed but disabled instead of not installed. What's the point of installing something you're not going to enable? It's not that much harder to type aptitude install ntp than it is to type update-rc.d ntp defaults There's a checkbox in the Gnome clock applet to enable NTP. But that doesn't work if it's not installed and I doubt the average user is easily able to install NTP. -- Olaf van der Spek http://xccu.sf.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
On Nov 11, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Geert Stappers wrote: Op 08-11-2006 om 20:09 schreef Olaf van der Spek: Also, no NTP synchronization is available by default. I really think Debian should install. Maybe install but disable, although I'd prefer it to be enabled by default. The Debian-installer installs by default the packages with priority standard. Cheers Geert Stappers Who thinks it is stupid to install NTP by default. Installing ntp by default (making it have priority standard) would be good for the many Debian users who have always-on network access. But it would be a problem for the minority who have no or only intermittent (e.g. dial-up) network access. An argument in favor of making it standard is that it would greatly improve the overall state of timekeeping on the internet. This is of not just a time-geek issue. Better time distribution has lots of practical advantages. An argument in favor of leaving it optional is that requiring people without good network access to install in expert mode (to avoid getting ntp installed) is an imposition on a class of users who are individually more likely to be non-experts. I leave it to the PTBs to figure out whether there is a compromise position. Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#397649: install-report: NTP sync missing by default
Op 08-11-2006 om 20:09 schreef Olaf van der Spek: Also, no NTP synchronization is available by default. I really think Debian should install. Maybe install but disable, although I'd prefer it to be enabled by default. The Debian-installer installs by default the packages with priority standard. Cheers Geert Stappers Who thinks it is stupid to install NTP by default. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
