Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  wrote (Tue, 3 May 2022 
10:22:35 +0200):
> However, I would appreciate it if you could add partman-hfs to the translation
> project so it gets translated as all the other d-i packages. 

Now done.

> You are also very
> welcome to perform uploads of the partman-hfs package yourself.

Hmm, I guess there's some black magic to be performed by kibi to gain me
upload rights for this new package...

Kibi?


Holger



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Holger Wansing 
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Re: License issue? (Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project)

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Am 4. Mai 2022 16:52:40 MESZ schrieb John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 
:
>
>This shouldn't introduce any license problems as the partman-hfs package itself
>is not affected by the license issue. It's just the hfsprogs package that is
>using the problematic APSL license.
>
>partman-hfs is just using the same license as debian-installer but it has to
>live in the contrib section because it depends on a package from the non-free
>section.

Sounds reasonable to me.
Thanks for clarrification.


Holger

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Sent from /e/ OS on Fairphone3

Re: License issue? (Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project)

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi Holger!

On 5/4/22 16:35, Holger Wansing wrote:
>> It's part of unstable, so in principal, it can be used to build non-free 
>> installer
>> images.
> 
> For which archs is this used?

It's currently used on m68k, powerpc and ppc64. But it could be used on amd64 
and
arm64 as well since HFS/HFS+ is in principle useful on any Apple Macintosh 
computer,
even the latest ones.

> So even if partman-hfs is not used by default currently, the translations are
> currently used (translators work on it, if we add partman-hfs to the 
> l10n machinery), so I wonder if this introduces a license issue for the 
> translation files?
> (The po files contain the hint:
> "This file is distributed under the same license as debian-installer.")

This shouldn't introduce any license problems as the partman-hfs package itself
is not affected by the license issue. It's just the hfsprogs package that is
using the problematic APSL license.

partman-hfs is just using the same license as debian-installer but it has to
live in the contrib section because it depends on a package from the non-free
section.

Adrian

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: :' :  Debian Developer
`. `'   Physicist
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License issue? (Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project)

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  wrote (Tue, 3 May 2022 
10:22:35 +0200):
> Hello Holger!
> 
> On 5/2/22 16:10, Holger Wansing wrote:
> > Apparently I did not got the point regarding non-free here, when reading
> > this mail that day.
> > 
> > Now I see that partman-hfs is in contrib, and that opened my eyes.
> > I wonder if it's ok from the license point-of-view, to have a installer
> > module from contrib in the installer?
> > Doesn't this turn the whole installer into a no-longer DFSG-free piece of
> > software?
> 
> Only if you build CD images with the packages included which is not happening 
> by
> default. I would argue it's similar to non-free images that are being built
> with firmware included.
> 
> > Or in other words: can we call such installer the "official 
> > Debian-Installer"?
> > 
> > (There is another issue about non-free firmware to be included in the
> > installer, and unofficial installer images were introduced for this; maybe 
> > this is a similar thing?)
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > Ahhh, another thought comes to mind:
> > maybe this partman-hfs is for ports releases anyway, and not to be used in
> > official release archs?
> 
> It's part of unstable, so in principal, it can be used to build non-free 
> installer
> images.

For which archs is this used?

> Unfortunately, debian-cd currently seems unable to include udebs from contrib
> and non-free which is why this has to be enabled in the codebase first anyway.
> 
> However, I would appreciate it if you could add partman-hfs to the translation
> project so it gets translated as all the other d-i packages. You are also very
> welcome to perform uploads of the partman-hfs package yourself.
> 
> As for the license issue: The hfsprogs package has been in main for a long 
> time
> but then someone raised the severity of this license bug to serious and the
> package had to be moved to non-free [1].
> 
> I would still argue that Apple's APSL should not be considered non-free, 
> especially
> since Fedora ships the hfsplus-tools package with their normal distribution 
> [2] and
> Fedora is known to be very strict when it comes to license questions.

So even if partman-hfs is not used by default currently, the translations are
currently used (translators work on it, if we add partman-hfs to the 
l10n machinery), so I wonder if this introduces a license issue for the 
translation files?
(The po files contain the hint:
"This file is distributed under the same license as debian-installer.")


Holger


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Holger Wansing 
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Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello Holger!

On 5/2/22 16:10, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Apparently I did not got the point regarding non-free here, when reading
> this mail that day.
> 
> Now I see that partman-hfs is in contrib, and that opened my eyes.
> I wonder if it's ok from the license point-of-view, to have a installer
> module from contrib in the installer?
> Doesn't this turn the whole installer into a no-longer DFSG-free piece of
> software?

Only if you build CD images with the packages included which is not happening by
default. I would argue it's similar to non-free images that are being built
with firmware included.

> Or in other words: can we call such installer the "official Debian-Installer"?
> 
> (There is another issue about non-free firmware to be included in the
> installer, and unofficial installer images were introduced for this; maybe 
> this is a similar thing?)

Yes.

> Ahhh, another thought comes to mind:
> maybe this partman-hfs is for ports releases anyway, and not to be used in
> official release archs?

It's part of unstable, so in principal, it can be used to build non-free 
installer
images.

Unfortunately, debian-cd currently seems unable to include udebs from contrib
and non-free which is why this has to be enabled in the codebase first anyway.

However, I would appreciate it if you could add partman-hfs to the translation
project so it gets translated as all the other d-i packages. You are also very
welcome to perform uploads of the partman-hfs package yourself.

As for the license issue: The hfsprogs package has been in main for a long time
but then someone raised the severity of this license bug to serious and the
package had to be moved to non-free [1].

I would still argue that Apple's APSL should not be considered non-free, 
especially
since Fedora ships the hfsplus-tools package with their normal distribution [2] 
and
Fedora is known to be very strict when it comes to license questions.

Adrian

> [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=666707
> [2] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/hfsplus-tools/tree/rawhide

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`. `'   Physicist
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Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  wrote (Thu, 15 Apr 
2021 08:28:52 +0200):
> Hi!
> 
> I created a partman-hfs package that is required for the installation of
> PowerMacs but will also allow to create HFS and HFS+ partitions on any
> machines. It might be useful on Intel Macs as well for creating shared
> partitions for dual-boot Macs.
> 
> While including the necessary hfsprogs-udeb in debian-installer is a bit
> tricky due to the non-free license of src:hfsprogs, I was wondering whether
> it would be okay nevertheless to include the git repository for partman-hfs
> packaging in the debian-installer's team project?

Apparently I did not got the point regarding non-free here, when reading
this mail that day.

Now I see that partman-hfs is in contrib, and that opened my eyes.
I wonder if it's ok from the license point-of-view, to have a installer
module from contrib in the installer?
Doesn't this turn the whole installer into a no-longer DFSG-free piece of
software?
Or in other words: can we call such installer the "official Debian-Installer"?


(There is another issue about non-free firmware to be included in the
installer, and unofficial installer images were introduced for this; maybe 
this is a similar thing?)


Ahhh, another thought comes to mind:
maybe this partman-hfs is for ports releases anyway, and not to be used in
official release archs?


Holger


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Holger Wansing 
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 4/19/21 12:52 PM, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Cyril Brulebois  wrote (Thu, 15 Apr 2021 18:35:32 +0200):
>> I don't think having an extra repository would be an issue.
>>
>> Some care might be required to make sure we don't burden translators
>> with a somewhat special component, but AFAIR that shouldn't happen until
>> the package is (possibly) added to the list of packages that require
>> translations. Holger would likely know better.
> 
> We have ../packages/po/packages_list for this.
> As long as we don't include the new package there, translators don't it.
> 
> So no objections from that side.

OK, good. The still needs some refinements but I guess I will add it to git
by the end of the week and submit it to unstable.

Thanks,
Adrian

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Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Cyril Brulebois  wrote (Thu, 15 Apr 2021 18:35:32 +0200):
> I don't think having an extra repository would be an issue.
> 
> Some care might be required to make sure we don't burden translators
> with a somewhat special component, but AFAIR that shouldn't happen until
> the package is (possibly) added to the list of packages that require
> translations. Holger would likely know better.

We have ../packages/po/packages_list for this.
As long as we don't include the new package there, translators don't it.

So no objections from that side.


Holger


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Re: Including partman-hfs to the team's git project

[Cyril Brulebois]

Hi,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  (2021-04-15):
> I created a partman-hfs package that is required for the installation
> of PowerMacs but will also allow to create HFS and HFS+ partitions on
> any machines. It might be useful on Intel Macs as well for creating
> shared partitions for dual-boot Macs.
> 
> While including the necessary hfsprogs-udeb in debian-installer is a
> bit tricky due to the non-free license of src:hfsprogs, I was
> wondering whether it would be okay nevertheless to include the git
> repository for partman-hfs packaging in the debian-installer's team
> project?

I don't think having an extra repository would be an issue.

Some care might be required to make sure we don't burden translators
with a somewhat special component, but AFAIR that shouldn't happen until
the package is (possibly) added to the list of packages that require
translations. Holger would likely know better.


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (k...@debian.org)
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant


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Including partman-hfs to the team's git project

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi!

I created a partman-hfs package that is required for the installation of
PowerMacs but will also allow to create HFS and HFS+ partitions on any
machines. It might be useful on Intel Macs as well for creating shared
partitions for dual-boot Macs.

While including the necessary hfsprogs-udeb in debian-installer is a bit
tricky due to the non-free license of src:hfsprogs, I was wondering whether
it would be okay nevertheless to include the git repository for partman-hfs
packaging in the debian-installer's team project?

Thanks,
Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913