Re: Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
On 09 Sep 2002 09:07:47 +0200 Also, a pretty standard policy when translating things is to try not to change the meaning of the text. Huh? I only want to change the default value, how does it have an impact on the meaning of the text? Changing the default value changes the semantics of a question, does it not? Then you can change the translated question also :) regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 09:07:47AM +0200, Martin Sjögren wrote:
Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they
choose a language and provided default values do not take this
information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors,
default system language, etc.).
I had an idea on this yesterday, I'm not sure if {c,}debconf supports
it. In templates.fr, you could have:
Description: foo
bar
Description-fr: foo
bar
Default: ftp.d.o
Default-fr_FR: ftp.fr.d.o
Default-fr_CA: ftp.ca.d.o
Default-fr_XX: ftp.xx.d.o
My feeling is that this is exactly what we should do. Or even better,
Default-??_FR: ftp.fr.d.o
Default-??_CA: ftp.ca.d.o
Default-??_US: ftp.d.o
Ie, allow to set default not depending on the language, but on the country.
But of course, it'll be a nightmare to implement this. And moreover, I guess
it's the only template it will be used (with timezone). I guess that if I
would live in america, I'll still use A4 paper size, but I'm not sure.
Et.c. As I said, I'm not sure if debconf is happy about it, and I'm not
sure it's a good idea either, but it would enable more intelligent
default values. You'd ask the user for language and country early in the
installation. This could also carry over to be default locale in the
target system (and indeed, the user might expect it to be).
Thanks, Mt.
--
Il ne faut pas confondre « La société m'opprime » et « le système m'étrique ».
--- éphéméride du 19 juin
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Re: Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 09:04:20PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: Denis Barbier wrote: Isn't English spoken in quite a lot more countries than United States? ;) Why is United States a good default value whereas France is not for French speaking people? Because the US is reasonably well connected to everywhere and has Debian's main round-robin mirror network in it. If these facts of servers and network topology should change, we should then change the default of course. Makes sense to me, looks like I have to find a better example. Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they choose a language and provided default values do not take this information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors, default system language, etc.). Bored? If you want to provide sane location-based defaults, then ask the user where they are. This information, if in a reasonable form, can be re-used by base-config, which already has to ask about it for time zone setup. (Or do you think I should force all French speaker's computers to ^ be set to GMT when they install? :-P) Aren't we talking about default values? Whether this default value is blindly used depends upon template priority, or did I miss something? And I am not sure that forcing them to use a wrong timezone is very helpful ;) Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 11:51:43PM +0200, Martin Sjögren wrote: [...] France != French. Isn't French spoken in quite a lot more countries than France? For example Canada... Isn't English spoken in quite a lot more countries than United States? ;) Why is United States a good default value whereas France is not for French speaking people? Also, a pretty standard policy when translating things is to try not to change the meaning of the text. Huh? I only want to change the default value, how does it have an impact on the meaning of the text? If I'm in the USA while installing Debian, I might want to use Swedish during the installation, though I definitely don't want to use ftp.se.d.o. Yes, I can change back the default, Exactly. but isn't the Usually, ftp.your country code.debian.org is a good choice. enough? Then why is a default value provided? Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they choose a language and provided default values do not take this information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors, default system language, etc.). Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 12:28:07AM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 11:51:43PM +0200, Martin Sjögren wrote: Then why is a default value provided? Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they choose a language and provided default values do not take this information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors, default system language, etc.). I agree. And boot-floppies works that way. If I choose French install, I got french mirror. -- Thomas Poindessous [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Localized default values (was Re: [d-i] Problems with various debconf templates)
Denis Barbier wrote: Isn't English spoken in quite a lot more countries than United States? ;) Why is United States a good default value whereas France is not for French speaking people? Because the US is reasonably well connected to everywhere and has Debian's main round-robin mirror network in it. If these facts of servers and network topology should change, we should then change the default of course. A lot more languages than English are spoken in the US too. You really think a Spanish speaker in California or Tennessee wants to hit a mirror in Spain? Then why is a default value provided? A default value is probably going to be *shown* whether you explicitly provide one or not. Whatever country starts with A and is at the top of the list is probably not a good choice. Seriously my feeling is that users are getting bored when they choose a language and provided default values do not take this information into accout (when choosing keyboard layout, mirrors, default system language, etc.). Bored? If you want to provide sane location-based defaults, then ask the user where they are. This information, if in a reasonable form, can be re-used by base-config, which already has to ask about it for time zone setup. (Or do you think I should force all French speaker's computers to be set to GMT when they install? :-P) -- see shy jo, listening to Spanish on the radio in Tennesee, oddly enough msg21972/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
