Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
On Sat, 3 Sep 2022, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > The upload of manpages-l10n (manpages-fr) was just accepted in > unstable. OK, thanks. AIUI we now need another upload of src:sysvinit in which bin:bootlogd gets a Replaces and Breaks on manpages-fr (<< 4.15.0-9~), correct? I can do that this weekend, ceteris paribus, unless anyone shouts. Where, though, are the other Replaces/Breaks? I cannot find any on the 3.05-1 binary packages? These are needed for upgrade ordering… … oh, the manpages for the other packages are just diverted? That will do, I suppose? bye, //mirabilos -- Infrastrukturexperte • tarent solutions GmbH Am Dickobskreuz 10, D-53121 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/ Telephon +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235 HRB AG Bonn 5168 • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg /⁀\ The UTF-8 Ribbon ╲ ╱ Campaign against Mit dem tarent-Newsletter nichts mehr verpassen: ╳ HTML eMail! Also, https://www.tarent.de/newsletter ╱ ╲ header encryption!
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Thorsten, On Thu, Sep 01, 2022 at 06:39:18PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > > For Debian, as stated above, I can do another upload removing this > > file as well. > > Thanks. Feel free to reassign/close this bug at will then… or do we > need another sysvinit upload with updated Replaces/Breaks/… as well, > Andreas? The upload of manpages-l10n (manpages-fr) was just accepted in unstable. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hi Helge, […] > Yes, that would be the best option. A few days ago I informed all > translation teams about the transfer of translations to sysvinit, so > if the French team could integrate the translation of bootlogd there, > that'll be great. ok, great! > For Debian, as stated above, I can do another upload removing this > file as well. Thanks. Feel free to reassign/close this bug at will then… or do we need another sysvinit upload with updated Replaces/Breaks/… as well, Andreas? bye, //mirabilos -- Infrastrukturexperte • tarent solutions GmbH Am Dickobskreuz 10, D-53121 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/ Telephon +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235 HRB AG Bonn 5168 • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg /⁀\ The UTF-8 Ribbon ╲ ╱ Campaign against Mit dem tarent-Newsletter nichts mehr verpassen: ╳ HTML eMail! Also, https://www.tarent.de/newsletter ╱ ╲ header encryption!
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Thorsten, On Thu, Sep 01, 2022 at 06:39:18PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > […] > > Yes, that would be the best option. A few days ago I informed all > > translation teams about the transfer of translations to sysvinit, so > > if the French team could integrate the translation of bootlogd there, > > that'll be great. > > ok, great! > > > For Debian, as stated above, I can do another upload removing this > > file as well. > > Thanks. Feel free to reassign/close this bug at will then… or do we > need another sysvinit upload with updated Replaces/Breaks/… as well, > Andreas? I'll do the upload on the weekend. I guess the best is that you close it afterwards? Or reassign it to manpages-l10n? Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Torsten et al, On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 11:04:25PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, Mark Hindley wrote: > > > > there seems to be one manpage (in bootlogd) missing conflict handling: > > > > > > /usr/share/man/fr/man8/bootlogd.8.gz > > > > Thanks. I was under the impression that manpages-i10n had changed to > > systemd versions (which doesn't have bootlogd.8) but apparently not. I > > think we should continue to use the manpages-i10n version and not have > > any more dpkg diversions than are absolutely necessary. No. This is not the intention, quite the contrary. This file probably escaped me, because I did not realize that the package bootlogd originates from sysvinit. I can do another upload removing this file as well. > > I am away for a week, but will resolve this once I am back. > > Perhaps in this time a french speaker can compare the two versions, > from sysvinit and manpages-l10n, and see which one is “better”, then > contribute that to sysvinit so manpages-l10n can remove theirs as > bootlogd isn’t provided with systemd? Yes, that would be the best option. A few days ago I informed all translation teams about the transfer of translations to sysvinit, so if the French team could integrate the translation of bootlogd there, that'll be great. I suggest we keep this source file in the manpage l10n upstream repository for a few more weeks and then I ask upstream (Mario Blättermann) to move it to the archive. (Best if the French team would indicate a good time). For Debian, as stated above, I can do another upload removing this file as well. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, Mark Hindley wrote: > > there seems to be one manpage (in bootlogd) missing conflict handling: > > > > /usr/share/man/fr/man8/bootlogd.8.gz > > Thanks. I was under the impression that manpages-i10n had changed to > systemd versions (which doesn't have bootlogd.8) but apparently not. I > think we should continue to use the manpages-i10n version and not have > any more dpkg diversions than are absolutely necessary. > > I am away for a week, but will resolve this once I am back. Perhaps in this time a french speaker can compare the two versions, from sysvinit and manpages-l10n, and see which one is “better”, then contribute that to sysvinit so manpages-l10n can remove theirs as bootlogd isn’t provided with systemd? bye, //mirabilos -- Infrastrukturexperte • tarent solutions GmbH Am Dickobskreuz 10, D-53121 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/ Telephon +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235 HRB AG Bonn 5168 • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg /⁀\ The UTF-8 Ribbon ╲ ╱ Campaign against Mit dem tarent-Newsletter nichts mehr verpassen: ╳ HTML eMail! Also, https://www.tarent.de/newsletter ╱ ╲ header encryption!
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Andreas, On Tue Aug 30 23:05:59 2022 Andreas Beckmann wrote: > Followup-For: Bug #1009915 > Control: found -1 3.05-1 > > Hi, > > there seems to be one manpage (in bootlogd) missing conflict handling: > > /usr/share/man/fr/man8/bootlogd.8.gz Thanks. I was under the impression that manpages-i10n had changed to systemd versions (which doesn't have bootlogd.8) but apparently not. I think we should continue to use the manpages-i10n version and not have any more dpkg diversions than are absolutely necessary. I am away for a week, but will resolve this once I am back. Mark
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Followup-For: Bug #1009915 Control: found -1 3.05-1 Hi, there seems to be one manpage (in bootlogd) missing conflict handling: /usr/share/man/fr/man8/bootlogd.8.gz Preparing to unpack .../bootlogd_3.05-1_amd64.deb ... Unpacking bootlogd (3.05-1) ... dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/bootlogd_3.05-1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/fr/man8/bootlogd.8.gz', which is also in package manpages-fr 4.15.0-7 Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/bootlogd_3.05-1_amd64.deb Andreas PS: Please don't consider using Replaces without corresponding Breaks, the "lost files" after removal are likely spotted by some ci/piuparts tests resulting in RC bugs.
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Jesse, On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 10:17:39PM -0300, Jesse Smith wrote: > > Note: It is recommended to use [po_directory] rather than [po4a_langs] and > > [po4a_paths]. See section Autodetection of the paths and languages below. > > > > So, maybe I will look at incorporating that in man/po/po4a.cfg. > > This sounds good, Mark. If you do adjust the Makefile, please send me a > patch or pull request. I'll be happy to test commit it upstream. Patch to implement this is attached for your consideration. The only other thing I can see that is outstanding is the bug address you want to use as an argument to --msgid-bugs-address in man/Makefile. Helge, anything else you want to add? Thanks both. Mark >From a9af4b0423525b6535e39953799161a89ee29d2c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Mark Hindley Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 18:15:21 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Use [po_directory] as recommended by po4a(1). --- man/Makefile| 2 -- man/po/po4a.cfg | 3 +-- 2 files changed, 1 insertion(+), 4 deletions(-) diff --git a/man/Makefile b/man/Makefile index 3b06f561..59c5fc5d 100644 --- a/man/Makefile +++ b/man/Makefile @@ -3,8 +3,6 @@ killall5.8 last.1 lastb.1 logsave.8 mesg.1 mountpoint.1 pidof.8 poweroff.8 \ readbootlog.1 reboot.8 runlevel.8 shutdown.8 sulogin.8 telinit.8 utmpdump.1 \ wall.1 -LANGUAGES=$(shell sed -ne 's/^.*\[po4a_langs\] \(.*\)$$/\1/p' po/po4a.cfg) - PO4A := $(shell command -v po4a 2> /dev/null) PO4A_OPTS = --previous --srcdir po/ --destdir ./ --no-backups --stamp \ diff --git a/man/po/po4a.cfg b/man/po/po4a.cfg index 4c925987..4e294ae6 100644 --- a/man/po/po4a.cfg +++ b/man/po/po4a.cfg @@ -1,5 +1,4 @@ -[po4a_langs] de es fi fr hu id pl -[po4a_paths] sysvinit-man.pot $lang:$lang.po +[po_directory] ./ [type:man] ../bootlogd.8 $lang:$lang/bootlogd.8 [type:man] ../fstab-decode.8 $lang:$lang/fstab-decode.8 -- 2.35.1
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Jesse, On Mon, May 09, 2022 at 12:56:13PM -0300, Jesse Smith wrote: > Mark, thanks very much for the patches. Sorry it took me a while to > respond, your e-mail with patches ended up in my spam folder. Thanks, no worries. > I've applied the five patches upstream in the 3.05 branch of sysvinit. > > Regarding the idea of making the installation of translated manual pages > optional, I'm in favour of that. If people don't want six translations > of the same page they are using, I'm happy to support that. > > Maybe we should have an adjustment in the Makefile that, by default, > only installs the default English pages. Then have an optional target > that installs translated pages? Something like "make > install-translations" seems appropriate. What do you think? Seems reasonable. We are not far from that now anyway. My patch of the install target in src/Makefile uses $(wildcard) so it only installs the translated pages that have been built. The translated pages are only built if po4a is available. So existing build environments should just see a new warning to install po4a if they want to build the translated pages. The po4a(1) manpage[1] also says:- Note: It is recommended to use [po_directory] rather than [po4a_langs] and [po4a_paths]. See section Autodetection of the paths and languages below. So, maybe I will look at incorporating that in man/po/po4a.cfg. Best wishes Mark [1] https://manpages.org/po4a
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Mark, On Thu, May 05, 2022 at 04:27:26PM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote: > On Sun, May 01, 2022 at 04:16:33PM -0300, Jesse Smith wrote: > > > The attached Makefile for man/ does not yet work, but I think it's just my > > > limited man page knowledge. > > > > Thank you for putting this together. I'm applying upstream to our 3.05 > > branch. > > I was still having difficulties with the Makefile you committed. There are > some > patches attached which resolve them for me. > > Helge, I am unclear what the po4a option '--msgid-bugs-address "Your Bugmail > "' is for. Is it required or should it be set to something > @upstream sysvinit? Yes. It should be set to some e-mail address wich actually handles bug reports on strings. This is put into the header of each message file (pot and po file). > Jesse, I have suggested making po4a optional. I wonder if some users might not > want to install and build the translated pages? Ideally it should be opt out, e.g. for space constraints. Otherwise uptake may be very slow. > Any successfully translated manpages are now installed. Great. > What do you both think? > Subject: [PATCH 3/5] Use single rule and make po4a optional (with warning). > > This ensures the version in set in the master copy before being translated. Looks fine. > Subject: [PATCH 1/5] Fix parsing LANGUAGES: $ needs escaping in Makefile. Yes, this was my intent, I just had some trouble with the quoting and hence my hack. Please use. > Subject: [PATCH 5/5] Use po4a --stamp option to avoid rebuild every time, also > requires --destdir=./ I did not implement stamp file yet, my status was just to get the work going, which I achieved, so yes, the stamp part I agree. For > -PO4A_OPTS = --previous --srcdir po/ --destdir po/ --no-backups \ > +PO4A_OPTS = --previous --srcdir po/ --destdir ./ --no-backups --stamp \ We have a (larger) problem, not yet adressed. If the original man pages get updated, how (and when) are man/po/* updated? My intention was to do this latest at build time (to avoid outdated translations). Jesse, how do you want this to be done? Version a) - You update man page - You update man/po/* This could happen by hand or you could have a makefile target which you call and then commit the results to the git repository - Whenever translators see the outdated xx.po (e.g. de.po), they pick it up, translate it and you integrate it (all at theier own pace). Version b) - During release, you update man/po/* (and commit the result!) - Whenever translators see the outdated xx.po (e.g. de.po), they pick it up, translate it and you integrate it (all at theier own pace). However, if you decide to release seldom (e.g. once a year) than translations are at least outdated this time. > Subject: [PATCH 4/5] Install i10n manpages, if available. Did not check this in detail, best to try out. I hadn't coded this part yet. > Subject: [PATCH 2/5] Remove dummy VERSION. Yes, this was part of my testing only, not meant for production. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Jesse, Helge,
Thanks.
On Sun, May 01, 2022 at 04:16:33PM -0300, Jesse Smith wrote:
> > The attached Makefile for man/ does not yet work, but I think it's just my
> > limited man page knowledge.
>
> Thank you for putting this together. I'm applying upstream to our 3.05
> branch.
I was still having difficulties with the Makefile you committed. There are some
patches attached which resolve them for me.
Helge, I am unclear what the po4a option '--msgid-bugs-address "Your Bugmail
"' is for. Is it required or should it be set to something
@upstream sysvinit?
Jesse, I have suggested making po4a optional. I wonder if some users might not
want to install and build the translated pages?
Any successfully translated manpages are now installed.
What do you both think?
Thanks
Mark
>From 3c37edc7386ba86b259d51c0204916e8ed7d254e Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Mark Hindley
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 18:35:41 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 3/5] Use single rule and make po4a optional (with warning).
This ensures the version in set in the master copy before being translated.
---
man/Makefile | 11 +++
1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)
diff --git a/man/Makefile b/man/Makefile
index 38fc9015..53fe2d11 100644
--- a/man/Makefile
+++ b/man/Makefile
@@ -5,16 +5,19 @@ wall.1
LANGUAGES=$(shell sed -ne 's/^.*\[po4a_langs\] \(.*\)$$/\1/p' po/po4a.cfg)
+PO4A := $(shell command -v po4a 2> /dev/null)
PO4A_OPTS = --previous --srcdir po/ --destdir po/ --no-backups \
--package-name sysvinit --package-version $(VERSION) \
--msgid-bugs-address "Your Bugmail "
-translated:
- po4a $(PO4A_OPTS) po/po4a.cfg
-
-all install: translated
+all install:
sed --in-place=.orig --separate 's/\@VERSION\@/$(VERSION)/g' $(MANPAGES)
+ifdef PO4A
+ po4a $(PO4A_OPTS) po/po4a.cfg
+else
+ @echo 'Install po4a to build translated manpages'
+endif
clean distclean:
for man in $(MANPAGES) ; do \
--
2.35.1
>From ec8bab0151bad7c2c90601e2c2cda2fbecb3661b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Mark Hindley
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 18:33:15 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 1/5] Fix parsing LANGUAGES: $ needs escaping in Makefile.
---
man/Makefile | 4 +---
1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 3 deletions(-)
diff --git a/man/Makefile b/man/Makefile
index 5817b961..d0ae39d9 100644
--- a/man/Makefile
+++ b/man/Makefile
@@ -3,9 +3,7 @@ killall5.8 last.1 lastb.1 logsave.8 mesg.1 mountpoint.1 pidof.8 poweroff.8 \
readbootlog.1 reboot.8 runlevel.8 shutdown.8 sulogin.8 telinit.8 utmpdump.1 \
wall.1
-LANGUAGES_DIST =`sed -ne 's/^.*\[po4a_langs\] \(.*\)$/\1/p' po/po4a.cfg`
-LANGUAGES=$(LANGUAGES_DIST)
-LANGUAGES=de es fi fr hu id pl
+LANGUAGES=$(shell sed -ne 's/^.*\[po4a_langs\] \(.*\)$$/\1/p' po/po4a.cfg)
VERSION?=1.2.3
--
2.35.1
>From 430320674a1e0f716a5c6798e977ddc2a6c903d4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Mark Hindley
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 18:38:49 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 5/5] Use po4a --stamp option to avoid rebuild every time, also
requires --destdir=./
---
man/Makefile | 6 +++---
src/Makefile | 6 +++---
2 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)
diff --git a/man/Makefile b/man/Makefile
index ed3edc77..3b06f561 100644
--- a/man/Makefile
+++ b/man/Makefile
@@ -7,7 +7,7 @@ LANGUAGES=$(shell sed -ne 's/^.*\[po4a_langs\] \(.*\)$$/\1/p' po/po4a.cfg)
PO4A := $(shell command -v po4a 2> /dev/null)
-PO4A_OPTS = --previous --srcdir po/ --destdir po/ --no-backups \
+PO4A_OPTS = --previous --srcdir po/ --destdir ./ --no-backups --stamp \
--package-name sysvinit --package-version $(VERSION) \
--msgid-bugs-address "Your Bugmail "
@@ -25,6 +25,6 @@ install: all
clean distclean:
for man in $(MANPAGES) ; do \
if [ -f "$$man.orig" ] ; then mv "$$man.orig" "$$man" ; fi \
- done
- for lang in $(LANGUAGES) ; do rm -rf "po/$$lang" ; done
+ done
+ for lang in $(LANGUAGES) ; do rm -rf "$$lang" "$$lang.po" ; done
diff --git a/src/Makefile b/src/Makefile
index afbeaac2..865af488 100644
--- a/src/Makefile
+++ b/src/Makefile
@@ -219,15 +219,15 @@ install: all
$(INSTALL_DIR) $(ROOT)$(MANDIR)/man5/$$lang; \
$(INSTALL_DIR) $(ROOT)$(MANDIR)/man8/$$lang; \
done
- for man in $(MAN1) $(subst ../man/,,$(foreach man,$(MAN1),$(wildcard ../man/po/??/$(man; do \
+ for man in $(MAN1) $(subst ../man/,,$(foreach man,$(MAN1),$(wildcard ../man/??/$(man; do \
$(INSTALL_DATA) ../man/$$man $(ROOT)$(MANDIR)/man1/$$man; \
sed -i "1{ $(MANDB); }" $(ROOT)$(MANDIR)/man1/$$man ; \
done
- for man in $(MAN5) $(subst ../man/,,$(foreach man,$(MAN5),$(wildcard ../man/po/??/$(man; do \
+ for man in $(MAN5) $(subst ../man/,,$(foreach man,$(MAN5),$(wildcard ../man/??/$(man; do \
$(INSTALL_DATA) ../man/$$man $(ROOT)$(MANDIR)/man5/$$man; \
sed -i "1{ $(MANDB); }" $(ROOT)$(MANDIR)/man5/$$man ; \
done
- for man in $(MAN8) $(subst ../man/,,$(foreach man,$(MAN8),$(wildcard ../man/po/??/$(man; do \
+ for man in $(MAN8) $(subst ../man/,,$(foreach man,$(MAN8),$(wildcard ../man/??/$(m
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Jesse, On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:58:14PM -0300, Jesse Smith wrote: > > > I'm not a makefile expert, but I have some experience with po4a and > > firends (in makefiles). I'll contact Jesse and see what I (or maybe > > Mario, who supported the transfer) can do. > > > > > As the upstream person in this situation, I'm happy to accept patches or > suggestions. A little while back I received the beginnings of the > translation process (the framework) and dropped it into the upstream > source tree sort of "as is". At the time it looked like there might be > more pieces coming in the future, so I left it alone. > > If anyone wants to improve upon the translation framework and/or send me > patches, I'll be happy to receive them. The attached Makefile for man/ does not yet work, but I think it's just my limited man page knowledge. For some reason I'm not seeing the solution for "make clean", probably some typo. I added a new target to actually create the translated man pages. For testing, I inserted a dummy version, please remove. What I'm not so sure is how to best call "translated", probably as a dependency for "all install"? You can of course integrate it in the target "all install", that would be the easiest solution. I suggest you use this Makefile as an input and then we work from there. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ MANPAGES=bootlogd.8 fstab-decode.8 halt.8 init.8 initctl.5 initscript.5 inittab.5 \ killall5.8 last.1 lastb.1 logsave.8 mesg.1 mountpoint.1 pidof.8 poweroff.8 \ readbootlog.1 reboot.8 runlevel.8 shutdown.8 sulogin.8 telinit.8 utmpdump.1 \ wall.1 LANGUAGES_DIST =`sed -ne 's/^.*\[po4a_langs\] \(.*\)$/\1/p' po/po4a.cfg` #LANGUAGES_DIST = $(sed -ne 's/^.*\[po4a_langs\] \(.*\)$/\1/p' po/po4a.cfg) LANGUAGES=$(LANGUAGES_DIST) LANGUAGES="de es fi fr hu id pl" VERSION=1.2.3 PO4A_OPTS = --previous --srcdir po/ --destdir po/ --no-backups \ --package-name sysvinit --package-version $(VERSION) \ --msgid-bugs-address "Your Bugmail " translated: po4a $(PO4A_OPTS) po/po4a.cfg all install: sed --in-place=.orig --separate 's/\@VERSION\@/$(VERSION)/g' $(MANPAGES) clean distclean: for man in $(MANPAGES) ; do \ if [ -f "$$man.orig" ] ; then mv "$$man.orig" "$$man" ; fi \ done echo $(LANGUAGES) for lang in $(LANGUAGES); do \ rm -rf "po/$$lang" \ done signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Mark, On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:20:47AM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 08:39:44PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > > I have had a quick look and I think the upstream support for this is still > > > incomplete. Shouldn't there be a rule for building translated manpages in > > > man/Makefile? > > > > I did not yet check the details, I just had a quick look. I can check > > more in detail in the weekend. > > A quick experiment with po4a suggests that running > > po4a po4a.cfg > > in man/po does build the translated manpages. > > However, there is no makefile rule for that build or subsequent installation > (which is bizarrely handled in src/Makefile!). > > That seems something to deal with upstream. Helge, could you liaise with Jesse > to complete that? I'm not a makefile expert, but I have some experience with po4a and firends (in makefiles). I'll contact Jesse and see what I (or maybe Mario, who supported the transfer) can do. Thanks for checking the state of the files. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 08:39:44PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > I have had a quick look and I think the upstream support for this is still > > incomplete. Shouldn't there be a rule for building translated manpages in > > man/Makefile? > > I did not yet check the details, I just had a quick look. I can check > more in detail in the weekend. A quick experiment with po4a suggests that running po4a po4a.cfg in man/po does build the translated manpages. However, there is no makefile rule for that build or subsequent installation (which is bizarrely handled in src/Makefile!). That seems something to deal with upstream. Helge, could you liaise with Jesse to complete that? Thanks Mark
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Guillem, On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 12:34:20PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote: > On Fri, 2022-04-22 at 20:16:02 +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > > On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Mark Hindley wrote: > > > > Or Replaces: but that has downsides on deinstallation. > > > > > > Yes. And I am unclear how dpkg would behave if sysvinit-core was installed > > > Replacing the manpages-l10n versions but then manpages-l10n was upgraded. > > > > Hm. Given that manpages-l10n would *not* Replaces sysvinit-core, > > I’d… say/hope ☺ that those of sysvinit-core take precedence. But > > I have to admit… I actually am not sure. Asking the experts ☻ > > Replaces works as it would be expected, yes. So as long as a package > contains the field, even if a replaced package gets installed/upgraded > later then it will be kept being replaced. But as has been mentioned, > and on their own, they have the problem of leaving the system w/o those > replaced files if the replacing package gets removed or swapped. > > I just checked the context for this report, and I think the better > option would be for systemd to ship their own translated man pages > (with appropriate Replaces/Breaks). (Helge have you considered or > tried that approach with upstream?) So that when someone switches > between sysvinit and systemd (or another init system providing the > same binaries), the translated man pages always correspond with the > actual original man pages and tools. I also think diversions or > alternatives do not seem appropriate as long as the commands themselves > are not handled in the same way. In theory this is the best way, yes. In practice it works seldom. Sysvinit is the very rare example where the transfer and integration went quick and smoothly. Unfortunatley, alsmost alwyys, this is a multi-year process, first getting upstreams (we have > 100 upstreams!) to accept the idea of translated man pages (some are even hostile at this very first step), then to help them integrate them, then to have them actually ship the files and finally to convince the downstreams like Debian to enable this process. As we can fail in any step, Mario (manpages-l10n upstream) just decided to stop working on those transfers, even though he believes this is the right step. For systemd I've not tried this, however, they are well aware of the translated man pages and never ever requested transfer or even asked about it. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hi! On Fri, 2022-04-22 at 20:16:02 +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Mark Hindley wrote: > > > Or Replaces: but that has downsides on deinstallation. > > > > Yes. And I am unclear how dpkg would behave if sysvinit-core was installed > > Replacing the manpages-l10n versions but then manpages-l10n was upgraded. > > Hm. Given that manpages-l10n would *not* Replaces sysvinit-core, > I’d… say/hope ☺ that those of sysvinit-core take precedence. But > I have to admit… I actually am not sure. Asking the experts ☻ Replaces works as it would be expected, yes. So as long as a package contains the field, even if a replaced package gets installed/upgraded later then it will be kept being replaced. But as has been mentioned, and on their own, they have the problem of leaving the system w/o those replaced files if the replacing package gets removed or swapped. I just checked the context for this report, and I think the better option would be for systemd to ship their own translated man pages (with appropriate Replaces/Breaks). (Helge have you considered or tried that approach with upstream?) So that when someone switches between sysvinit and systemd (or another init system providing the same binaries), the translated man pages always correspond with the actual original man pages and tools. I also think diversions or alternatives do not seem appropriate as long as the commands themselves are not handled in the same way. Thanks, Guillem
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Mark Hindley wrote: > > Or Replaces: but that has downsides on deinstallation. > > Yes. And I am unclear how dpkg would behave if sysvinit-core was installed > Replacing the manpages-l10n versions but then manpages-l10n was upgraded. Hm. Given that manpages-l10n would *not* Replaces sysvinit-core, I’d… say/hope ☺ that those of sysvinit-core take precedence. But I have to admit… I actually am not sure. Asking the experts ☻ bye, //mirabilos -- Infrastrukturexperte • tarent solutions GmbH Am Dickobskreuz 10, D-53121 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/ Telephon +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235 HRB AG Bonn 5168 • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg /⁀\ The UTF-8 Ribbon ╲ ╱ Campaign against Mit dem tarent-Newsletter nichts mehr verpassen: ╳ HTML eMail! Also, https://www.tarent.de/newsletter ╱ ╲ header encryption!
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Mark, On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 09:11:46AM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 08:39:44PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > > The other possibility might be dpkg-diverts. Perhaps that depends on how > > > many > > > conflicts there actually are/will be. I will try to quantify that more > > > accurately. > > > > That is an interesting idea. Than I wait for your analysis, thanks. > > I have just compared the manpage lists in sysvinit, manpages-l10n and > systemd. AFAICS the duplicates are the 7 in systemd-sysv: > > init.1 > halt.8 > poweroff.8 > reboot.8 > runlevel.8 > shutdown.8 > telinit.8 > > src:sysvinit has manpage translations for 7 languages: de es fi fr hu id pl. > > That seems a manageable number to handle through dpkg-divert. Thanks for the analysis, this is roughly what I've expected. Looking at the example section of dpkg-divert(1) I assume that you will issue the appropriate calls to dpkg-divert in sysvinit maintainer scripts and that I (on the manpage-l10n side) do not have to use any special handling, correct? Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Thorsten, Thanks for your input, as always. On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 08:38:57PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > > The other possibility might be dpkg-diverts. Perhaps that depends on how > > many > > conflicts there actually are/will be. I will try to quantify that more > > accurately. > > Or Replaces: but that has downsides on deinstallation. Yes. And I am unclear how dpkg would behave if sysvinit-core was installed Replacing the manpages-l10n versions but then manpages-l10n was upgraded. dpkg-divert seems preferable to me. Thanks Mark
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Helge, On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 08:39:44PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > The other possibility might be dpkg-diverts. Perhaps that depends on how > > many > > conflicts there actually are/will be. I will try to quantify that more > > accurately. > > That is an interesting idea. Than I wait for your analysis, thanks. I have just compared the manpage lists in sysvinit, manpages-l10n and systemd. AFAICS the duplicates are the 7 in systemd-sysv: init.1 halt.8 poweroff.8 reboot.8 runlevel.8 shutdown.8 telinit.8 src:sysvinit has manpage translations for 7 languages: de es fi fr hu id pl. That seems a manageable number to handle through dpkg-divert. Mark
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Hello Mark, On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 07:25:16PM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote: > Thanks. I was expecting this after #1001908 and your contribution to sysvinit > upstream. > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 05:45:47PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > For the benefit of Sysvinit using Debian users, it would be great if > > you could enable the translations of the man pages during package > > build; > > I have had a quick look and I think the upstream support for this is still > incomplete. Shouldn't there be a rule for building translated manpages in > man/Makefile? I did not yet check the details, I just had a quick look. I can check more in detail in the weekend. > > My request: > > === > > The only solution I can imagine is the Alternatives system, so we > > identify which man pages conflict and both manpages-l10n and sysvinit > > establish alternatives for those translations. > > The other possibility might be dpkg-diverts. Perhaps that depends on how many > conflicts there actually are/will be. I will try to quantify that more > accurately. That is an interesting idea. Than I wait for your analysis, thanks. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
On Wed, 20 Apr 2022, Mark Hindley wrote: > > The only solution I can imagine is the Alternatives system, so we > > identify which man pages conflict and both manpages-l10n and sysvinit > > establish alternatives for those translations. > > The other possibility might be dpkg-diverts. Perhaps that depends on how many > conflicts there actually are/will be. I will try to quantify that more > accurately. Or Replaces: but that has downsides on deinstallation. The scenario would be: • manpages-de and sysvinit-core ship the same files • sysvinit-core Replaces: manpages-de (but NOT the other way around) On deinstalling sysvinit-core, the files from manpages-de would not be reinstated (which they would with dpkg-divert, which is the one I’d have considered instead). For many packages, this is unattractive. Realistically, people who install both on Debian *now* (that is, sid or bookworm+) will not switch to systemd _afterwards_ so I estimate that we can go with a Replaces-based solution. If not dpkg-divert IMHO is the way to go. bye, //mirabilos -- Infrastrukturexperte • tarent solutions GmbH Am Dickobskreuz 10, D-53121 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/ Telephon +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235 HRB AG Bonn 5168 • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg /⁀\ The UTF-8 Ribbon ╲ ╱ Campaign against Mit dem tarent-Newsletter nichts mehr verpassen: ╳ HTML eMail! Also, https://www.tarent.de/newsletter ╱ ╲ header encryption!
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Helge, Thanks. I was expecting this after #1001908 and your contribution to sysvinit upstream. On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 05:45:47PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > For the benefit of Sysvinit using Debian users, it would be great if > you could enable the translations of the man pages during package > build; I have had a quick look and I think the upstream support for this is still incomplete. Shouldn't there be a rule for building translated manpages in man/Makefile? > My request: > === > The only solution I can imagine is the Alternatives system, so we > identify which man pages conflict and both manpages-l10n and sysvinit > establish alternatives for those translations. The other possibility might be dpkg-diverts. Perhaps that depends on how many conflicts there actually are/will be. I will try to quantify that more accurately. Best wishes Mark
Bug#1009915: sysvinit: Please align with manpages-l10n and afterwards activate man page translations
Source: sysvinit Version: 3.03 Severity: wishlist For better understanding, I provide some background and afterwards my exact proposal (request). On myself = I'm maintainer of (amongst others) manpages-l10n (localized man pages) and offered to continue the German translation for sysvinit upstream. Background: === Until recently (i.e. before manpges-l10n version 4.13-1 released in February) the translations from Sysvinit were shipped, even if Systemd had a man page of the same name. This caused user confusion (see #1001908) and therefor manpages-l10n (i.e. manpages-de, manpages-fr, manpages-pl, ..) now ship the translation of the systemd man pages always. An example for this is shutdown(8). When resolving this issue, upstream agreed to accept the man page translations for its man pages, so they are not lost. I monitored the sourceware repository, but apparently those files did not appear there, but in github, therefor I could not post an advanced warning to you, apologizes. For the benefit of Sysvinit using Debian users, it would be great if you could enable the translations of the man pages during package build; if you need any help on this please ask me and I can have a look. However, this will create file conflicts if systemd ships a man page of the same name (which is definitly translated into German but possibly other languages). Simply conflicting manpages-de, manpages-pl, ... won't work, as manpages-l10n ships translations for over 100 upstream projects, so forcing it out on Systemvinit systems would not be very nice to users (they e.g. loose all man-pages translations, mutt, groff, ...). My request: === The only solution I can imagine is the Alternatives system, so we identify which man pages conflict and both manpages-l10n and sysvinit establish alternatives for those translations. Except for German I expect little updates for other languages, so this system would be rather static. If there are better ways to have both sysvinit and manpages-de (manpages-es, manpages-fr, ..) on the same system at the same time, then of course I would prefer this. Otherwise bear with me, as a package maintainer I haven't used the alternatives system so far. Once this is in place, you enable the translations in sysvinit packages and users of sysvinit in other languages can read their correct man pages again (as they did for the last 25 years in German, other languages simmilarly). This bug mainly serves to get the ball rolling before the file conflicts appear and we can coordinate our uploads and packages. Of course, we can discuss this off-bug, if you prefer. -- System Information: Debian Release: 11.3 APT prefers stable-security APT policy: (500, 'stable-security'), (500, 'stable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Foreign Architectures: i386 Kernel taint flags: TAINT_UNSIGNED_MODULE Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) (ignored: LC_ALL set to de_DE.UTF-8), LANGUAGE not set Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system) -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
