Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
On 5/27/05, Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/27/05, Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's correct; and, with or without that dependency, OpenTTD infringes the copyright on Transport Tycoon Deluxe under a mise en scene theory, as discussed on debian-legal. (Not to say there's a What do you mean by that exactly? A video game with even the skimpiest of original story lines (see Duke Nukem 3-D, as described in Micro Star v. FormGen) is a literary or artistic work at run-time, over and above the expressive content of its source code. Hence an additional form of copyright infringement is possible -- the creation of an unauthorized sequel using the original's characters and mise en scene (a term borrowed by lawyers from the theater; imagine the accent grave). There's a difference between the kind of thing prohibited in the Duke Nukem case and the kind of thing permitted in the Nintendo case (Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc.). In both cases, the scene changed. In the Duke Nukem case, the additional scene elements were permanent -- new scene elements were added to the game data. In the Nintendo case, the changed scene elements were ephemeral -- they only existed at execution time. In my opinion (one M.K.Edwards does not share), OpenTTD is more like the Nintendo case than the Duke Nukem case. We're dealing with an alternate game engine here (which is primarily functional in character). If you use the original game engine, at all, the changes introduced by OpenTTD vanish. In other words, these changes appear to be ephemeral. Since the court is treating these cases using concepts from theatre, an analogy might be relevant: The Nintendo case was analogous to presenting the play on a different stage. The Duke Nukem case was analogous to presenting the play with a revised script. -- Raul
Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: openttd Version : 0.4.0.1 Upstream Author : Various * URL : http://www.openttd.org/ * License : GPL Description : open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe I am working on this package and would like to see it in debian. I am still looking for a sponsor until I can apply as NM. -- System Information: Debian Release: 3.1 APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.10 Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
On 5/27/05, Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: openttd Version : 0.4.0.1 Upstream Author : Various * URL : http://www.openttd.org/ * License : GPL Description : open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe I am working on this package and would like to see it in debian. I am still looking for a sponsor until I can apply as NM. As far as I understood it, it requires media files from the original game. Is this correct? Or are there free media files available? -- regards, Reinhard
Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
On Fri, May 27, 2005 at 06:24:50PM +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: * Package name: openttd As far as I understood it, it requires media files from the original game. Is this correct? Or are there free media files available? It does. We are working on support for free media files, but for now it is not yet playable without the original game. This means it will be included in contrib instead of main. Gr. Matthijs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
On 5/27/05, Reinhard Tartler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/27/05, Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: openttd Version : 0.4.0.1 Upstream Author : Various * URL : http://www.openttd.org/ * License : GPL Description : open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe I am working on this package and would like to see it in debian. I am still looking for a sponsor until I can apply as NM. As far as I understood it, it requires media files from the original game. Is this correct? Or are there free media files available? That's correct; and, with or without that dependency, OpenTTD infringes the copyright on Transport Tycoon Deluxe under a mise en scene theory, as discussed on debian-legal. (Not to say there's a consensus or anything; but it's not that complicated an issue, and you can draw conclusions from cases like Micro Star v. FormGen even if YANAL.) Though it looks like a lot of fun, OpenTTD belongs on an abandonware site and not on the Debian mirror network, even in non-free. The same, really, applies to freeciv and the innumerable clones of games, from Pac-Man to Doom, with anything resembling characters and a storyline; but that's not a problem for debian-mentors. Cheers, - Michael (IANADD, IANAL, TINLA)
Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
Hello, Fri, 27 May 2005 17:30:20 +0200 Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Package name: openttd Version : 0.4.0.1 Upstream Author : Various * URL : http://www.openttd.org/ * License : GPL Description : open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe Remember it will not be included in main as long as openttd depends on several files from Microprose version, that are not free. Even if you try downloading those files at postinst, openttd goes to contrib (take a look at `msttcorefonts' package for example). Regards, Grzegorz Bizon -- [ ,''`. [EMAIL PROTECTED] // [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [ : :' : GG: 830398 // JID: verdan(at)chrome.pl ] [ `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] //GPG: 0xDF32F531 ] [ `- 1A6F A0A1 01D1 3033 332A 60FE 4C7B 8037 DF32 F531 ] pgpqgbviDGJvm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
That's correct; and, with or without that dependency, OpenTTD infringes the copyright on Transport Tycoon Deluxe under a mise en scene theory, as discussed on debian-legal. (Not to say there's a What do you mean by that exactly? consensus or anything; but it's not that complicated an issue, and you can draw conclusions from cases like Micro Star v. FormGen even if YANAL.) Though it looks like a lot of fun, OpenTTD belongs on an abandonware site and not on the Debian mirror network, even in non-free. I have posted this issue on debian-legal before, where people seemed to agree to put it into contrib, which is what I am planning to. OpenTTD has IMHO nothing to do with abandonware, since it is still actively maintained and improved. Actually, there is an immense difference between the original TTD and OpenTTD by now. (I am aware that an immense difference doesn't really buy you anything, legally) The same, really, applies to freeciv and the innumerable clones of games, from Pac-Man to Doom, with anything resembling characters and a storyline; but that's not a problem for debian-mentors. I expect that this discussion has already been done for those games and that apparently the consensus was to do include them. Gr. Matthijs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#310994: ITP: openttd -- open source clone of the Microprose game Transport Tycoon Deluxe
On 5/27/05, Matthijs Kooijman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's correct; and, with or without that dependency, OpenTTD infringes the copyright on Transport Tycoon Deluxe under a mise en scene theory, as discussed on debian-legal. (Not to say there's a What do you mean by that exactly? A video game with even the skimpiest of original story lines (see Duke Nukem 3-D, as described in Micro Star v. FormGen) is a literary or artistic work at run-time, over and above the expressive content of its source code. Hence an additional form of copyright infringement is possible -- the creation of an unauthorized sequel using the original's characters and mise en scene (a term borrowed by lawyers from the theater; imagine the accent grave). The right to create sequels is reserved to the copyright holder, absent the sort of potent First Amendment defense which prevailed in SunTrust Bank v. Houghton Mifflin (The Wind Done Gone). Similar reasoning holds in many non-US jurisdictions, under national implementations of Article 2.3 of the Berne Convention. OpenTTD -- a reimplementation of Transport Tycoon Deluxe with enhancements -- is precisely such an unauthorized sequel. It may not have characters, but it has some story line and has mise en scene out the wazoo. Basically harmless, if TTD is abandonware; but unambiguously (IANAL) an infringement of the copyright on the original, whether any literal copying is involved or not. I have posted this issue on debian-legal before, where people seemed to agree to put it into contrib, which is what I am planning to. OpenTTD has IMHO nothing to do with abandonware, since it is still actively maintained and improved. Actually, there is an immense difference between the original TTD and OpenTTD by now. (I am aware that an immense difference doesn't really buy you anything, legally) Unfortunately, the people who agreed to that don't seem to be applying a sufficient knowledge of the law. I myself am no lawyer, nor am I a DD, nor have I been a debian-legal denizen for long; but I fear I have the misfortune of being right on this one, consensus or no consensus. The same, really, applies to freeciv and the innumerable clones of games, from Pac-Man to Doom, with anything resembling characters and a storyline; but that's not a problem for debian-mentors. I expect that this discussion has already been done for those games and that apparently the consensus was to do include them. Apparently so. Lots of things get onto Debian's mirror network without the degree of scrutiny that an organization with assets to protect should be applying. Cheers, - Michael
