Bug#372720: Mode experts allows to bypass the reportbug criticity limitations
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to gmane.linux.debian.alioth.reportbug.devel as well. Simon Waters si...@technocool.net writes: If Debian procedures ensure Grave bugs are reviewed as promptly as Critical bugs The severity of a bug is, as I understand it, intentionally divorced from the priority of attending to that bug. There is no necessary procedural connection between them. (but then why have a Critical level in that case?) The different severity levels are well-defined URL:http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer#severities, and more importantly those definitions are defined only in terms of the *effect* of the bug. The severity is easily discussed in terms of facts. This allows the severity to be independently, and hopefully dispassionately, assessed by anyone without a stake in getting the bug fixed. I appreciate it is difficult, as there are competing interests in reducing spurious reporting of critical bugs, and also of ensuring genuinely critical issues are dealt with promptly. Debian bugs are attended to largely by volunteers. To my knowledge, there is no procedural “priority” for bug reports, beyond the coarse-grained “if this bug isn't fixed by the time we release, the package gets removed” threshold. The priority of addressing the bug is a much more socially-defined and inherently subjective property. It's good that there is no unnecessary entangling of the severity with the priority: this allows the person-to-person negotiation of priority to remain squarely outside the factual description of the bug's effect. -- \ “My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves | `\ to fact, not to try and make facts harmonise with my | _o__) aspirations.“ —Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860-09-23 | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#372720: Mode experts allows to bypass the reportbug criticity limitations
2009/4/23 chaica cha...@ohmytux.com: As said in the reportbug documentation (man page), you can bypass this limitation bu using the expert mode, which lets you define your criticity without limitations. Simon, Thomas, do you find this solution acceptable? Can we then consider this bug closed? Cheers, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#372720: Mode experts allows to bypass the reportbug criticity limitations
Sandro Tosi wrote: do you find this solution acceptable? Can we then consider this bug closed? I feel it is unacceptable, but it comes down to Debian policy and procedure issues I'm not familiar enough to comment on. The point of this mode is to guide users unfamiliar with Debian policy to make a good bug report, this bug refers to a feature that in some cases they will file a bug as Grave, when it should be Critical. If Debian procedures ensure Grave bugs are reviewed as promptly as Critical bugs, then this bug is unimportant (but then why have a Critical level in that case?). If not, then this bug might result in Critical issues not being dealt with as promptly as they should. I don't think we can assume people using a mode to assist them with bug reporting will use an expert mode or other workaround (email the bug system), they may assume that the tool is doing the right thing. I appreciate it is difficult, as there are competing interests in reducing spurious reporting of critical bugs, and also of ensuring genuinely critical issues are dealt with promptly. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#372720: Mode experts allows to bypass the reportbug criticity limitations
Hi Simon, thanks for the prompt reply On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 13:58, Simon Waterssi...@technocool.net wrote: Sandro Tosi wrote: do you find this solution acceptable? Can we then consider this bug closed? I feel it is unacceptable, but it comes down to Debian policy and procedure issues I'm not familiar enough to comment on. let's see :) The point of this mode is to guide users unfamiliar with Debian policy to if we talk only about users they then to exaggerate the level of a bug because make their system broken without looking at the situation as a whole distribution. make a good bug report, this bug refers to a feature that in some cases they will file a bug as Grave, when it should be Critical. The distintion is so small, and it's coded in the policy If Debian procedures ensure Grave bugs are reviewed as promptly as Critical bugs, then this bug is unimportant they are both RC (release critical): Debian release when the count of RC bugs goes to 0 (or very near to, as decided by release team); so yes, they are treated both as urgent bugs to fix asap. (but then why have a Critical level in that case?). that's the point. it is clarified here [1]: critical makes unrelated software on the system (or the whole system) break, or causes serious data loss, or introduces a security hole on systems where you install the package. grave makes the package in question unusable or mostly so, or causes data loss, or introduces a security hole allowing access to the accounts of users who use the package. [1] http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer#severities Now honestly how many users (*not* developers) are able to correctly identify what severity to choose? If not, then this bug might result in Critical issues not being dealt with as promptly as they should. both they are addressed as soon as possible. I don't think we can assume people using a mode to assist them with bug reporting will use an expert mode or other workaround (email the bug system), they may assume that the tool is doing the right thing. 'expert' mode is here to assist people that can do things possible with wide impact, so that lower modes have stricter rules. I appreciate it is difficult, as there are competing interests in reducing spurious reporting of critical bugs, and also of ensuring genuinely critical issues are dealt with promptly. critical and grave are very important bugs, but as per policy they have different meaning for *the project* not for the *users*. Let me make an example: if the driver for my video board stops working upon upgrade, the bug is grave and NEVER critical. Instead, if a package does rm -rf /etc/ in this packaging script, then it IS critical Cheers, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#372720: Mode experts allows to bypass the reportbug criticity limitations
* Sandro Tosi mo...@debian.org [20090623 13:26]: 2009/4/23 chaica cha...@ohmytux.com: As said in the reportbug documentation (man page), you can bypass this limitation bu using the expert mode, which lets you define your criticity without limitations. Simon, Thomas, do you find this solution acceptable? Can we then consider this bug closed? Acceptable, but not ideal. Providing a user-proof solution is sometimes too complicated, and as a developer I understand (and have experienced) the problem of users reporting things as critical which are not. But I'd rather have 5 reports marked as critical instead of grave because the user exaggerated his problem than of a single critical report lost because the user got annoyed by being controlled too much by the reporting tool. But as I said, it is acceptable, and I'd rather see grave or critical problems fixed instead of discussing this endlessly :) Regards, Thomas Arendsen Hein -- tho...@intevation.de - http://intevation.de/~thomas/ - OpenPGP key: 0x5816791A Intevation GmbH, Neuer Graben 17, 49074 Osnabrueck - AG Osnabrueck, HR B 18998 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#372720: Mode experts allows to bypass the reportbug criticity limitations
Hi, As said in the reportbug documentation (man page), you can bypass this limitation bu using the expert mode, which lets you define your criticity without limitations. Bye, Carl Chenet signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
