Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
forwarded 434056 http://www.latex-project.org/cgi-bin/ltxbugs2html?pr=latex/4024 thanks Jonathan Kew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 31 Aug 2007, at 7:05 pm, Frank Küster wrote: Hi Jonathan, here's a bug report we got in the Debian BTS about using inputenc with XeTeX. The full conversation is at http://bugs.debian.org/434056, but the first paragraph cited describes the wish quite well. The problem is described in more detail in the initial messages, but maybe you're familiar with it. What's your view on that? TIA for your answer, Hi Frank, Yes, I'm familiar with the issue. Just noting that the issue is now officially known to the LaTeX team. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
On 31 Aug 2007, at 7:05 pm, Frank Küster wrote:
Hi Jonathan,
here's a bug report we got in the Debian BTS about using inputenc with
XeTeX. The full conversation is at http://bugs.debian.org/434056, but
the first paragraph cited describes the wish quite well. The
problem is
described in more detail in the initial messages, but maybe you're
familiar with it.
What's your view on that? TIA for your answer,
Hi Frank,
Yes, I'm familiar with the issue. I normally tell XeTeX users that
they should not be using [utf8]{inputenc} at all, as the engine reads
UTF-8 natively. I've sometimes thought that it would be good for the
package to recognize when it is loaded under XeTeX, and automatically
disable itself (perhaps with a warning), as this is a fairly common
mistake for new users.
I seem to recall discussing this with one of the LaTeX team at a
conference some time ago (maybe Chris? Morten?), but have not
followed up on it recently.
A further step would be to also support other input encodings via the
inputenc package. This would require changing the \XeTeXinputencoding
setting to map the text to Unicode correctly. Then a legacy-encoded
file that says
\usepackage[cp1250]{inputenc}
or
\usepackage[applemac]{inputenc}
(or whatever) could work correctly with Unicode fonts in XeTeX. But
the utf8 case is the common one, so it would be nice if at least that
one worked transparently.
The correct place to address this issue is in the base LaTeX release;
it's not a Debian (or other distro) bug. But in the absence of an
upstream fix, you might want to try and come up with a patch -- I
think it would be helpful to users.
JK
Frank
Juliusz Chroboczek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
TeX, pdfTeX, Omega or XeTeX, he should be able to say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
and the right thing for the current implementation of TeX should
magically happen.
I suspect you can think so because you use a language
in which there is little difference between utf8 and
normal encoding, for CJK (, Arabic, Hindi, ?) I'm afraid
things are not going so magically ;-)
Ehm... no. XeTeX uses UTF-8 for input, and so does TeX (or e-TeX, or
pdfTeX) with utf8.def. Legacy encodings are completely irrelevant
for
this discussion.
The point is that the four languages I use regularly are all covered
by the small subset of Unicode that works correctly when you say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
I realise that people for whom that is the case are a minority
(there's
probably not much more than 1.2 billion of us in the world). However,
just because it doesn't work for most people doesn't mean it should
stop working for us.
\usepackage{ifxetex}
\ifxetex\else
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\fi
Yes, i'm currently doing roughly that (but with TeX primitives rather
than the ifxetex package). However I believe that this should be
handled
automatically by inputenc.
Juliusz
--
Frank Küster
Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)
Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
Hi Jonathan,
here's a bug report we got in the Debian BTS about using inputenc with
XeTeX. The full conversation is at http://bugs.debian.org/434056, but
the first paragraph cited describes the wish quite well. The problem is
described in more detail in the initial messages, but maybe you're
familiar with it.
What's your view on that? TIA for your answer,
Frank
Juliusz Chroboczek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
TeX, pdfTeX, Omega or XeTeX, he should be able to say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
and the right thing for the current implementation of TeX should
magically happen.
I suspect you can think so because you use a language
in which there is little difference between utf8 and
normal encoding, for CJK (, Arabic, Hindi, ?) I'm afraid
things are not going so magically ;-)
Ehm... no. XeTeX uses UTF-8 for input, and so does TeX (or e-TeX, or
pdfTeX) with utf8.def. Legacy encodings are completely irrelevant for
this discussion.
The point is that the four languages I use regularly are all covered
by the small subset of Unicode that works correctly when you say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
I realise that people for whom that is the case are a minority (there's
probably not much more than 1.2 billion of us in the world). However,
just because it doesn't work for most people doesn't mean it should
stop working for us.
\usepackage{ifxetex}
\ifxetex\else
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\fi
Yes, i'm currently doing roughly that (but with TeX primitives rather
than the ifxetex package). However I believe that this should be handled
automatically by inputenc.
Juliusz
--
Frank Küster
Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)
Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
On Fre, 27 Jul 2007, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: than the ifxetex package). However I believe that this should be handled automatically by inputenc. Then please write the orginal author of inputenc ... Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining [EMAIL PROTECTED]Vienna University of Technology Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- KIBBLESWORTH (n.) The footling amount of money by which the price of a given article in a shop is less than a sensible number, in a vain hope that at least one idiot will think it cheap. For instance, the kibblesworth on a pair of shoes priced at £19.99 is 1p. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
Hi Juliusz,
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:01:42 +0200, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
I think that inputenc should just do the right thing whatever the
implementation. The user should not need to know whether he's running
TeX, pdfTeX, Omega or XeTeX, he should be able to say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
and the right thing for the current implementation of TeX should
magically happen.
I suspect you can think so because you use a language
in which there is little difference between utf8 and
normal encoding, for CJK (, Arabic, Hindi, ?) I'm afraid
things are not going so magically ;-)
Anyway it is fine if XeTeX neglects \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
but it seems to me that they provide only ifxetex package which
detects XeTeX.
You might already know it but a simple workaroud will be
to modify your file as
\usepackage{ifxetex}
\ifxetex\else
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\fi
or more directly
\expandafter\ifx\csname XeTeXrevision\endcsname\relax
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\fi
then it will be processed correctly with latex or xelatex.
(not a fix but at least possible workaroud)
I can't tell if this bug(?) should be forwarded to the
upstream or not. I guess there is more knowledgeable member
in this list.
Regards,2007-7-26(Thu)
--
Debian Developer Debian JP Developer - much more I18N of Debian
Atsuhito Kohda kohda AT debian.org
Department of Math., Univ. of Tokushima
--
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Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
TeX, pdfTeX, Omega or XeTeX, he should be able to say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
and the right thing for the current implementation of TeX should
magically happen.
I suspect you can think so because you use a language
in which there is little difference between utf8 and
normal encoding, for CJK (, Arabic, Hindi, ?) I'm afraid
things are not going so magically ;-)
Ehm... no. XeTeX uses UTF-8 for input, and so does TeX (or e-TeX, or
pdfTeX) with utf8.def. Legacy encodings are completely irrelevant for
this discussion.
The point is that the four languages I use regularly are all covered
by the small subset of Unicode that works correctly when you say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
I realise that people for whom that is the case are a minority (there's
probably not much more than 1.2 billion of us in the world). However,
just because it doesn't work for most people doesn't mean it should
stop working for us.
\usepackage{ifxetex}
\ifxetex\else
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\fi
Yes, i'm currently doing roughly that (but with TeX primitives rather
than the ifxetex package). However I believe that this should be handled
automatically by inputenc.
Juliusz
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
I might misunderstand your problem but, as far as I know,
one shouldn't use \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} with xelatex.
You're perfectly right -- that's what I consider to be the bug.
I think that inputenc should just do the right thing whatever the
implementation. The user should not need to know whether he's running
TeX, pdfTeX, Omega or XeTeX, he should be able to say
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
and the right thing for the current implementation of TeX should
magically happen.
Juliusz
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
Package: texlive-latex-base
Version: 2007-10
I'm assuming this is a problem with inputenc; if you think it's
a problem with XeTeX, please reassign this bug to texlive-xetex.
Specifying something like
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
should do nothing when input to xelatex (XeTeX already uses UTF-8
input by default); apparently it does, because it breaks accented
characters.
I'm attaching a sample file, gzipped to avoid charset conversions by
your mailer. It works in pdflatex, fails in xelatex. Removing the
inputenc line from the input makes it work in xelatex.
Juliusz Chroboczek
utf8test.tex.gz
Description: Binary data
Bug#434056: Inputenc and XeTeX don't work together
Hi Juliusz,
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:58:54 +0200, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
Specifying something like
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
should do nothing when input to xelatex (XeTeX already uses UTF-8
input by default); apparently it does, because it breaks accented
characters.
I might misunderstand your problem but, as far as I know,
one shouldn't use \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} with xelatex.
The author of XeTeX wrote in another ML as follows;
For xetex, do *not* use \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}, because this
tries to interpret the individual bytes of UTF-8 characters via TeX
macros. But xetex already handles the UTF-8 encoding itself and works
with the actual Unicode character values.
Regards,2007-7-21(Sat)
--
Debian Developer Debian JP Developer - much more I18N of Debian
Atsuhito Kohda kohda AT debian.org
Department of Math., Univ. of Tokushima
--
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