Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
One more info: If you have laptop-mode-tools installed, disabling hdd power management (hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda) don't fix the problem. Load_Cycle_Count still increase. Only removing laptop-mode-tools don't fix the problem. Is necessary *remove* laptop-mode-tools *and* do: #hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda Best regards, Renato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Renato S. Yamane wrote: One more info: If you have laptop-mode-tools installed, disabling hdd power management (hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda) don't fix the problem. Load_Cycle_Count still increase. Only removing laptop-mode-tools don't fix the problem. Is necessary *remove* laptop-mode-tools *and* do: #hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda Note that that should be 254. 255 gives undefined behaviour for lots of hardware. Here's a question to everybody here: does the load cycle count increase quickly *while you're on AC*? (Why I'm asking: the current solution was designed so that the load cycle count increases while on battery, but stops increasing while on AC. The theory is that nobody works on battery 24 hrs/day, and that HD power management actually has benefits while working on battery. We've calculated that with this solution, even with very mobile usage patterns your drive should live for years. If the load cycle count increases while you're on AC, then the solution is broken. If the load cycle count increases only on battery, then it works as designed.) Cheers, Bart -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Bart Samwel wrote: Note that that should be 254. 255 gives undefined behaviour for lots of hardware. 254 don't fix the problem (Load_Cycle_Count still increasing). And check below: # hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda /dev/sda: setting Advanced Power Management level to 0xfe (254) # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda /dev/sda: setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled So, I really think that correct is 255. What you think? Here's a question to everybody here: does the load cycle count increase quickly *while you're on AC*? - When I run in AC, Load_Cycle_Count never increase. - When I run in battery, Load_Cycle_Count increase at least 1 time per minute. No more than 2 times per minute. The theory is that nobody works on battery 24 hrs/day, and that HD power management actually has benefits while working on battery. We've calculated that with this solution, even with very mobile usage patterns your drive should live for years. If the load cycle count increases while you're on AC, then the solution is broken. Yes, when I'm running in AC, Load_Cycle_Count don't increase in my laptop. Messias, and in your laptop? And... Messias can hear this sound when Load_Cycle_Count increase: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=8777action=view This can be a different bug? If the load cycle count increases only on battery, then it works as designed.) You think that is a good idea change hdparm -B from 254 to 255 in my case (/etc/acpi/battery.d/90-hdparm.sh)? Because when I run as 254, I get: setting Advanced Power Management level to 0xfe (254) And when I run as 255, I get: setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled Best regards, Renato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Renato S. Yamane wrote: Bart Samwel wrote: Note that that should be 254. 255 gives undefined behaviour for lots of hardware. 254 don't fix the problem (Load_Cycle_Count still increasing). Even if you do it and do nothing else, so that nothing runs laptop mode tools and/or acpi-support? And check below: # hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda /dev/sda: setting Advanced Power Management level to 0xfe (254) # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda /dev/sda: setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled So, I really think that correct is 255. What you think? Nope, 254 is correct for this. 255 means do what you want, 254 means do as little power management as possible. For many drives disable power management does the same as 128 (the default). Here's a question to everybody here: does the load cycle count increase quickly *while you're on AC*? - When I run in AC, Load_Cycle_Count never increase. - When I run in battery, Load_Cycle_Count increase at least 1 time per minute. No more than 2 times per minute. Ah, it works exactly as designed then! The theory is that nobody works on battery 24 hrs/day, and that HD power management actually has benefits while working on battery. We've calculated that with this solution, even with very mobile usage patterns your drive should live for years. If the load cycle count increases while you're on AC, then the solution is broken. Yes, when I'm running in AC, Load_Cycle_Count don't increase in my laptop. Messias, and in your laptop? And... Messias can hear this sound when Load_Cycle_Count increase: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=8777action=view This can be a different bug? I don't have sound so I can't see if this is the same. On my laptop it gives a pretty loud click. This is expected, this is just the sound of the head parking. If the load cycle count increases only on battery, then it works as designed.) You think that is a good idea change hdparm -B from 254 to 255 in my case (/etc/acpi/battery.d/90-hdparm.sh)? Because when I run as 254, I get: setting Advanced Power Management level to 0xfe (254) And when I run as 255, I get: setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled No, I'd keep it at 254 if it works for you. And I wouldn't worry if the load cycle count increases while you're on battery: you're not on battery all day. Here's the math again, which shows why this is safe: 8 hours on battery per day * 60 minutes per hour * 1 load cycle per minute = 480 cycles per day. Drives are rated for 60 load cycles - 60 / 480 = 1250 days = 3.42 years. And that's if you use your laptop on battery for 8 hours EVERY DAY for 3.42 years. Nobody does that: a typical Li-Ion battery can take 300 load cycles before it's exhausted and needs to be replaced. So, assuming you have a battery which can handle 8 hours (!) you'd need to be in your 5th replacement battery before your hard drive fails. Do you know ANYONE who uses a laptop into its second replacement battery? I don't either. So this is perfectly safe. :-) Cheers, Bart -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Hi, Well, Yes, when I'm running in AC, Load_Cycle_Count don't increase in my laptop. Messias, and in your laptop? Yes, when I'm running in AC, Load_Cycle_Count don't increase in my laptop and and increase very. And... Messias can hear this sound when Load_Cycle_Count increase: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=8777action=view Yes, I hear a sound almost identical to that. -- []'s Messias Alves GUD-BR-PI 2009/2/18 Bart Samwel b...@samwel.tk Renato S. Yamane wrote: Bart Samwel wrote: Note that that should be 254. 255 gives undefined behaviour for lots of hardware. 254 don't fix the problem (Load_Cycle_Count still increasing). Even if you do it and do nothing else, so that nothing runs laptop mode tools and/or acpi-support? And check below: # hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda /dev/sda: setting Advanced Power Management level to 0xfe (254) # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda /dev/sda: setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled So, I really think that correct is 255. What you think? Nope, 254 is correct for this. 255 means do what you want, 254 means do as little power management as possible. For many drives disable power management does the same as 128 (the default). Here's a question to everybody here: does the load cycle count increase quickly *while you're on AC*? - When I run in AC, Load_Cycle_Count never increase. - When I run in battery, Load_Cycle_Count increase at least 1 time per minute. No more than 2 times per minute. Ah, it works exactly as designed then! The theory is that nobody works on battery 24 hrs/day, and that HD power management actually has benefits while working on battery. We've calculated that with this solution, even with very mobile usage patterns your drive should live for years. If the load cycle count increases while you're on AC, then the solution is broken. Yes, when I'm running in AC, Load_Cycle_Count don't increase in my laptop. Messias, and in your laptop? And... Messias can hear this sound when Load_Cycle_Count increase: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=8777action=view This can be a different bug? I don't have sound so I can't see if this is the same. On my laptop it gives a pretty loud click. This is expected, this is just the sound of the head parking. If the load cycle count increases only on battery, then it works as designed.) You think that is a good idea change hdparm -B from 254 to 255 in my case (/etc/acpi/battery.d/90-hdparm.sh)? Because when I run as 254, I get: setting Advanced Power Management level to 0xfe (254) And when I run as 255, I get: setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled No, I'd keep it at 254 if it works for you. And I wouldn't worry if the load cycle count increases while you're on battery: you're not on battery all day. Here's the math again, which shows why this is safe: 8 hours on battery per day * 60 minutes per hour * 1 load cycle per minute = 480 cycles per day. Drives are rated for 60 load cycles - 60 / 480 = 1250 days = 3.42 years. And that's if you use your laptop on battery for 8 hours EVERY DAY for 3.42 years. Nobody does that: a typical Li-Ion battery can take 300 load cycles before it's exhausted and needs to be replaced. So, assuming you have a battery which can handle 8 hours (!) you'd need to be in your 5th replacement battery before your hard drive fails. Do you know ANYONE who uses a laptop into its second replacement battery? I don't either. So this is perfectly safe. :-) Cheers, Bart
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Em 18-02-2009 13:15, Bart Samwel escreveu: Renato S. Yamane wrote: Bart Samwel wrote: Note that that should be 254. 255 gives undefined behaviour for lots of hardware. 254 don't fix the problem (Load_Cycle_Count still increasing). Even if you do it and do nothing else, so that nothing runs laptop mode tools and/or acpi-support? With 254 when AC is connected Load_Cycle_Count don't increase. Only when AC is removed it increase (but I think that is OK, because it increase 1 time per minute, and you say that is safe). With 255, it never increase. About strange sound when HDD parking head, in the past this was a bug: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7674 Att, Renato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Hi, I see some users with this problem again. Load_Cycle_Count increase 1 in each 2 minutes. User can hear this sound in each 2 minutes: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=8777action=view # date Seg Fev 16 15:44:27 BRT 2009 # smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle_Count 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 1997 # date Seg Fev 16 16:46:07 BRT 2009 # smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle_Count 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 2025 This mean 600.000 counter in only 892 days. Messias, can you inform us your HDD model? #smartctl -i /dev/sda And if this problem is happening when you disable hdd power management? #hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda Best regards, Renato S. Yamane -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Hi, The output of the command is: # smartctl -i /dev/sda smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Device Model: SAMSUNG HM160HI Serial Number:S1C8J56QB31613 Firmware Version: HH100-12 User Capacity:160,041,885,696 bytes Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0 Local Time is:Tue Feb 17 10:01:46 2009 BRT == WARNING: May need -F samsung or -F samsung2 enabled; see manual for details. SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled After you have disabled power management, the problem stopped. Best regards, -- []'s Messias Alves 2009/2/17 Renato S. Yamane yam...@diamondcut.com.br Hi, I see some users with this problem again. Load_Cycle_Count increase 1 in each 2 minutes. User can hear this sound in each 2 minutes: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=8777action=view # date Seg Fev 16 15:44:27 BRT 2009 # smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle_Count 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 1997 # date Seg Fev 16 16:46:07 BRT 2009 # smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle_Count 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 2025 This mean 600.000 counter in only 892 days. Messias, can you inform us your HDD model? #smartctl -i /dev/sda And if this problem is happening when you disable hdd power management? #hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda Best regards, Renato S. Yamane
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Wow... I don't believe. Same problem in my Lenovo Thinkpad T61! laptop-mode-tools 1.45-1 acpi-support0.109-11 When AC is conected: Ter Fev 17 10:14:22 BRT 2009 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 099 099 000Old_age Always - 10820 Ter Fev 17 11:59:26 BRT 2009 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 099 099 000Old_age Always - 10820 As you can see, no spin-up and spin-down. But when AC is removed: Ter Fev 17 11:59:26 BRT 2009 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 099 099 000Old_age Always - 10820 Ter Fev 17 12:27:48 BRT 2009 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 099 099 000Old_age Always - 10840 I don't use my laptop when I removed AC (because I go to lunch), but my HDD spin-up and spin-down 20 times in 28 minutes! === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Device Model: HITACHI HTS722010K9SA00 Serial Number:080222DP0210DPGAZS7P Firmware Version: DC2ZC75A User Capacity:100,030,242,816 bytes Device is:Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall] ATA Version is: 8 ATA Standard is: ATA-8-ACS revision 3f Local Time is:Tue Feb 17 12:41:26 2009 BRT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled My HDD have: Power_On_Hours - 1194 Load_Cycle_Count - 10840 It means: 9 Load Cycle in each hour! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
unarchive 448673 reopen 448673 yam...@diamondcut.com.br found 448673 0.109-11 tags - fixed thanks Really so sorry for this last 3 messages to control. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Michael Gilbert wrote: Package: acpi-support Version: 0.103-1 Severity: important as recently seen on slashdot [1], acpi ends up repeatedly load cycling certain hard disks on ubuntu [2]. Yeah, I've been following those discussions. Thanks for confirming that this also happens on Debian, I already kind of suspected that it would. I'll be waiting with a fix until the Ubuntu people agree on one, unless that takes bloody ages, in which case I will take matters into my own hands. Cheers, Bart -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#448673: acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
Package: acpi-support
Version: 0.103-1
Severity: important
as recently seen on slashdot [1], acpi ends up repeatedly load cycling
certain hard disks on ubuntu [2].
it is now confirmed that this problem affects debian sid as well (i have
not tested this on etch or before). my Load_Cycle_Count is now at 718,694.
this is very bad because the average Load_Cycle_count before failure for
most hard disks is 600,000.
$ smartctl -a /dev/hda | grep 193
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 001 001 000Old_age Always
- 718694
i have a dell inspiron 8200 notebook and an IDE hard disk:
$ hdparm -i /dev/hda
/dev/hda:
Model=ST9100823A, FwRev=3.07, SerialNo=3LG0V07X
Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw15uSec Fixed DTR10Mbs RotSpdTol.5% }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=8192kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=off
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=195371568
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:240,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5
AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting WriteCache=enabled
Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 2: ATA/ATAPI-1,2,3,4,5,6
a temporary solution is to disable advanced power management for the hard
disk:
$ hdparm -B 255 /dev/hda
/dev/hda:
setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled
thanks for the hard work.
[1] http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/10/30/1742258.shtml
[2] https://launchpad.net/bug59695.html
-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
APT prefers unstable
APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (400, 'testing'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.22-3-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Versions of packages acpi-support depends on:
ii acpid 1.0.6-4Utilities for using ACPI power man
ii dmidecode 2.9-1 Dump Desktop Management Interface
ii finger0.17-11user information lookup program
ii hdparm7.7-1 tune hard disk parameters for high
ii laptop-detect 0.13.2 attempt to detect a laptop
ii libc6 2.6.1-6GNU C Library: Shared libraries
ii lsb-base 3.1-24 Linux Standard Base 3.1 init scrip
ii nvclock 0.8b2-1Allows you to overclock your nVidi
ii powermgmt-base1.29 Common utils and configs for power
ii radeontool1.5-5 utility to control ATI Radeon back
ii toshset 1.72-6 Access much of the Toshiba laptop
ii vbetool 0.7-1.1run real-mode video BIOS code to a
ii x11-xserver-utils 7.3+1 X server utilities
acpi-support recommends no packages.
-- no debconf information
--
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