Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
Hello Otavio, Otavio Salvador wrote: This is somewhat complicate to decide. I see two sides in this question: 1) adding Network Manager for LXDE we'll give a more ready to use desktop for laptop users and give some extra bonus for regular users; 2) LXDE seems to fit very well with users wanting a low-resource environment and Network Manager is not thin (it bring a lot of libraries and consumes resources); So personally I'm unsure which is the best option. I agree with you. We need disscuss this to have a best option. And it shouldn't be related in #500119, but in tasksel. I will reply in another email without cc to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are we agreed to get #500119 fixed in lenny? At least our users who install network-manager-gnome manually on their custom system can benefit from this fix. -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
Andrew Lee wrote: Are we agreed to get #500119 fixed in lenny? At least our users who install network-manager-gnome manually on their custom system can benefit from this fix. Additional comments from Xfce maintainer: 15:23 -!- Irssi: Join to #debian-xfce was synced in 1 secs 15:23 AndrewLee hello 15:46 AndrewLee Any xfce maintainer here? 15:47 Corsac yup, but see topic 15:47 Corsac and I'm livin 16:15 AndrewLee Corsac: Does xfce-desktop task included a wifi configuration GUI? 16:19 AndrewLee I'd like to change a line in nm-applet.desktop to make it works for all kind windowmanager and desktop enviroment except in KDE. 16:19 AndrewLee So I'd like to ask xfce maintainer if this change is okay to xfce? 16:47 Corsac no we don't include anything atm 16:47 Corsac I'm testing wicd at the moment, which seems to work fine 16:47 Corsac and upstream is kind-of working on airconfig, which works fine too 16:47 Corsac but that will be for squeeze 16:48 Corsac are you working on lenny or squeeze for that change? 16:48 Corsac (anyway, I still think you should drop the OnlyShowIn=GNOME for the moment) 16:48 Corsac not sure if that means it'll be autostarted by Xfce, though 16:49 Corsac what would be nice is that it appears in the potentially autostarted apps, but isn't selected by default, so user has the choice 16:49 Corsac but I'm not sure it's possible 17:01 -!- Corsac [EMAIL PROTECTED] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01 -!- Corsac [EMAIL PROTECTED] has joined #debian-xfce 17:28 AndrewLee Corsac: thanks. I will post your comment on #500119 to convenice the maintainer to get it fix. Cheers. -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
PCMan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you don't install nm and nm-applet, it doesn't matter what's inside nm-applet.desktop. Fixing the incorrect desktop file won't break any existing things and has no relationship with your question. If a user don't want the dependencies brought by nm, he/she shouldn't get it installed. Besides, the reason why nm has so many dependencies is understandable. To get your Linux desktop correctly connected to the internet is very difficult and can be very complicated. That's why nm is so complicated. So personally I think nm is still an acceptable option even for lightweight desktops since it works quite well. Some might argue that wicd can do this well and it's small, too. However, it's written in python, and that small program need python and its libs, which are not thin at all. Network manager is still a reasonable and sensible option if you need to manage your connections with GUI. The .desktop change of nm-applet I'm ok with. And this is really recommended to be done to allow it to be used by other compatible desktops. The point is, whether the installer for lxde flavor includes nm or not, it'll never works for the users even when they really want to use it and install nm manually. That's why this fix is definitely needed. Agree. But install it in tasksel is a completely different history. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Otavio Salvador [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Andrew Lee [Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:11:18 +0800]: Cc'ed this to debian-boot and debian-release. Dear RMs, This is only one line change in nm-applet.desktop which benefit other Window Managers and Desktops user. Please accept this change into Lenny. Has somebody verified that the change ensures it doesn't get started in KDE, just as with OnlyShownIn=GNOME? Or do you have first-hand knowledge of that? In any of those case, I'm ok with that one change. This is somewhat complicate to decide. I see two sides in this question: 1) adding Network Manager for LXDE we'll give a more ready to use desktop for laptop users and give some extra bonus for regular users; 2) LXDE seems to fit very well with users wanting a low-resource environment and Network Manager is not thin (it bring a lot of libraries and consumes resources); So personally I'm unsure which is the best option. From my POV I believe we shouldn't add Network Manager on lxde-desktop task since it's quite easy to do it and we can make the installation fat for a user that is limited regarting space, memory and cpu power. What others think about it? -- O T A V I OS A L V A D O R - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UIN: 5906116 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br - Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives you the whole house. -- O T A V I OS A L V A D O R - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UIN: 5906116 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br - Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives you the whole house. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Otavio, Otavio Salvador wrote: This is somewhat complicate to decide. I see two sides in this question: 1) adding Network Manager for LXDE we'll give a more ready to use desktop for laptop users and give some extra bonus for regular users; 2) LXDE seems to fit very well with users wanting a low-resource environment and Network Manager is not thin (it bring a lot of libraries and consumes resources); So personally I'm unsure which is the best option. I agree with you. We need disscuss this to have a best option. And it shouldn't be related in #500119, but in tasksel. I will reply in another email without cc to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are we agreed to get #500119 fixed in lenny? At least our users who install network-manager-gnome manually on their custom system can benefit from this fix. Yes. I fully agree to get it fixed in lenny and that will allow more freedom for our users. I'm waiting for your reply about the tasksel inclusion or not... -- O T A V I OS A L V A D O R - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UIN: 5906116 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br - Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives you the whole house. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
* Andrew Lee [Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:11:18 +0800]: Cc'ed this to debian-boot and debian-release. Dear RMs, This is only one line change in nm-applet.desktop which benefit other Window Managers and Desktops user. Please accept this change into Lenny. Has somebody verified that the change ensures it doesn't get started in KDE, just as with OnlyShownIn=GNOME? Or do you have first-hand knowledge of that? In any of those case, I'm ok with that one change. Cheers, Michael Biebl wrote: So the only change would be in nm-applet.desktop to NotShowIn=KDE. I guess this change would be fine, although it's unlikely that this fix will make it into lenny unfortunately (unless you help me to persuade the RMs that this change is important enough for granting a freeze exception) We are discussing to have xfce/lxde cd image with lenny RC2 release on debian-book and debian-cd. And I mentioned that XFCE and LXDE also need wifi GUI tool such as network-manager. It's good that only a change in nm-applet.desktop file would make network-manager works automaticlly in a various Window Managers, XFCE and LXDE for our users. Andrew, do you also need/want the change to the nm-editor.desktop file? No, as you well explaned. :) Cheers, -Andrew -- Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es Debian Developer adeodato at debian.org Listening to: Duncan Dhu - Slowly -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
Quoting Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * Andrew Lee [Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:11:18 +0800]: Cc'ed this to debian-boot and debian-release. Dear RMs, This is only one line change in nm-applet.desktop which benefit other Window Managers and Desktops user. Please accept this change into Lenny. Has somebody verified that the change ensures it doesn't get started in KDE, just as with OnlyShownIn=GNOME? Or do you have first-hand knowledge of that? In any of those case, I'm ok with that one change. nm-applet.desktop is installed according to the fd.o autostart spec (into /etc/xdg/autostart). KDE3 does *not* support this spec (KDE4 does though), so it is impossible that nm-applet is autostarted in KDE. It might be autostarted in KDE4 though (I'd have to verify that, I don't know if KDE4 uses the same session identifier as KDE3 does). But as we don't ship KDE4 as desktop in lenny (only the libs), we are safe on this side. Matter of fact, we could even go as far and remove the OnlyShownIn=GNOME line altogether for lenny. Cheers, Michael This mail was sent through TecO-Webmail: http://www.teco.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
Thank you all for handling this bug report. I have related knowledge and can confirm the correctness of this fix. Please refer to the spec: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html quote OnlyShowIn, NotShowIn A list of strings identifying the environments that should display/not display a given desktop entry. Only one of these keys, either OnlyShowIn or NotShowIn, may appear in a group (for possible values see the Desktop Menu Specification). /quote So, apparently, this fix MUST work. Otherwise, it's definitely a serious KDE4 bug. Cheers! On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:34 AM, Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Andrew Lee [Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:11:18 +0800]: Cc'ed this to debian-boot and debian-release. Dear RMs, This is only one line change in nm-applet.desktop which benefit other Window Managers and Desktops user. Please accept this change into Lenny. Has somebody verified that the change ensures it doesn't get started in KDE, just as with OnlyShownIn=GNOME? Or do you have first-hand knowledge of that? In any of those case, I'm ok with that one change. Cheers, Michael Biebl wrote: So the only change would be in nm-applet.desktop to NotShowIn=KDE. I guess this change would be fine, although it's unlikely that this fix will make it into lenny unfortunately (unless you help me to persuade the RMs that this change is important enough for granting a freeze exception) We are discussing to have xfce/lxde cd image with lenny RC2 release on debian-book and debian-cd. And I mentioned that XFCE and LXDE also need wifi GUI tool such as network-manager. It's good that only a change in nm-applet.desktop file would make network-manager works automaticlly in a various Window Managers, XFCE and LXDE for our users. Andrew, do you also need/want the change to the nm-editor.desktop file? No, as you well explaned. :) Cheers, -Andrew -- Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es Debian Developer adeodato at debian.org Listening to: Duncan Dhu - Slowly -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Andrew Lee [Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:11:18 +0800]: Cc'ed this to debian-boot and debian-release. Dear RMs, This is only one line change in nm-applet.desktop which benefit other Window Managers and Desktops user. Please accept this change into Lenny. Has somebody verified that the change ensures it doesn't get started in KDE, just as with OnlyShownIn=GNOME? Or do you have first-hand knowledge of that? In any of those case, I'm ok with that one change. This is somewhat complicate to decide. I see two sides in this question: 1) adding Network Manager for LXDE we'll give a more ready to use desktop for laptop users and give some extra bonus for regular users; 2) LXDE seems to fit very well with users wanting a low-resource environment and Network Manager is not thin (it bring a lot of libraries and consumes resources); So personally I'm unsure which is the best option. From my POV I believe we shouldn't add Network Manager on lxde-desktop task since it's quite easy to do it and we can make the installation fat for a user that is limited regarting space, memory and cpu power. What others think about it? -- O T A V I OS A L V A D O R - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UIN: 5906116 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br - Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives you the whole house. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
If you don't install nm and nm-applet, it doesn't matter what's inside nm-applet.desktop. Fixing the incorrect desktop file won't break any existing things and has no relationship with your question. If a user don't want the dependencies brought by nm, he/she shouldn't get it installed. Besides, the reason why nm has so many dependencies is understandable. To get your Linux desktop correctly connected to the internet is very difficult and can be very complicated. That's why nm is so complicated. So personally I think nm is still an acceptable option even for lightweight desktops since it works quite well. Some might argue that wicd can do this well and it's small, too. However, it's written in python, and that small program need python and its libs, which are not thin at all. Network manager is still a reasonable and sensible option if you need to manage your connections with GUI. The point is, whether the installer for lxde flavor includes nm or not, it'll never works for the users even when they really want to use it and install nm manually. That's why this fix is definitely needed. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Otavio Salvador [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Andrew Lee [Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:11:18 +0800]: Cc'ed this to debian-boot and debian-release. Dear RMs, This is only one line change in nm-applet.desktop which benefit other Window Managers and Desktops user. Please accept this change into Lenny. Has somebody verified that the change ensures it doesn't get started in KDE, just as with OnlyShownIn=GNOME? Or do you have first-hand knowledge of that? In any of those case, I'm ok with that one change. This is somewhat complicate to decide. I see two sides in this question: 1) adding Network Manager for LXDE we'll give a more ready to use desktop for laptop users and give some extra bonus for regular users; 2) LXDE seems to fit very well with users wanting a low-resource environment and Network Manager is not thin (it bring a lot of libraries and consumes resources); So personally I'm unsure which is the best option. From my POV I believe we shouldn't add Network Manager on lxde-desktop task since it's quite easy to do it and we can make the installation fat for a user that is limited regarting space, memory and cpu power. What others think about it? -- O T A V I OS A L V A D O R - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UIN: 5906116 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br - Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives you the whole house. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
Cc'ed this to debian-boot and debian-release. Dear RMs, This is only one line change in nm-applet.desktop which benefit other Window Managers and Desktops user. Please accept this change into Lenny. Michael Biebl wrote: So the only change would be in nm-applet.desktop to NotShowIn=KDE. I guess this change would be fine, although it's unlikely that this fix will make it into lenny unfortunately (unless you help me to persuade the RMs that this change is important enough for granting a freeze exception) We are discussing to have xfce/lxde cd image with lenny RC2 release on debian-book and debian-cd. And I mentioned that XFCE and LXDE also need wifi GUI tool such as network-manager. It's good that only a change in nm-applet.desktop file would make network-manager works automaticlly in a various Window Managers, XFCE and LXDE for our users. Andrew, do you also need/want the change to the nm-editor.desktop file? No, as you well explaned. :) Cheers, -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
retitle #500119 Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel tags #500119 = patch thanks Dear network-manager maintainer, I am the LXDE packages maintainer. I have a better proposal for you to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel. And could increase it's users. :) The KDE and GNOME are the major desktops so it makes sense to optimize for the common case for me. And from the popcon information, I believe that nm-applet would has more user who would like to uses it in a various WindowManagers and Desktops such as XFCE and LXDE. So my solution is very *simple*, just avoid nm-applet started automaticly in KDE. We can have 'NotShowIn=KDE;' in the nm-applet.desktop file. And do the same, set 'NotShowIn=GNOME;' for knetworkmanager. I attached a patch. I felt now everybody would happy with it. :D Thank you for your good work on network-manager, and I really need to have network-manage installed on my LXDE. :) Cheers, -Andrew --- editor/nm-editor.desktop.orig 2008-11-14 21:01:39.100698501 +0800 +++ editor/nm-editor.desktop 2008-11-14 21:02:09.785948372 +0800 @@ -7,7 +7,7 @@ Terminal=false Type=Application Categories=Network;Settings; -OnlyShowIn=GNOME; +NotShowIn=KDE; X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Bugzilla=GNOME X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Product=NetworkManager X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Component=general --- nm-applet.desktop.orig 2008-11-14 21:01:50.491715376 +0800 +++ nm-applet.desktop 2008-11-14 21:02:23.870700553 +0800 @@ -7,7 +7,7 @@ Terminal=false Type=Application Categories= -OnlyShowIn=GNOME; +NotShowIn=KDE; X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Bugzilla=GNOME X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Product=NetworkManager X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Component=general
Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
I agreed with the proposal from Andrew. That's a really simple and effective solution which won't break anything. Please refer to the desktop entry spec. http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html The NotShowIn solution, I think, is the best way to solve the problem. In this way knetwork-manager won't be started in gnome, and nm-applet won't be started in KDE. The only pitfall is, if a user install both of them, and runs XFCE, both of them will be started. So, you can make nm-applet NotShowIn KDE, and make knetwork-manager OnlyShowIn KDE. I this way, KDE only starts knetwork-manager, and other desktpo environments, such as XFCE and LXDE, can start nm-applet. There are no clashes, and all users will be very happy. After all, nm-applet is not a gnome-specific program at all even when it has 'gnome' in its package name. The only gnome things it uses are PolicyKit and keyring. So, it's very suitable for other desktops, too. Please let this bug be fixed. We users from desktop environments other than KDE and GNOME really need this. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#500119: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#500119: Better way to avoid both knetworkmanager and nm-applet are started in parallel
PCMan wrote: I agreed with the proposal from Andrew. That's a really simple and effective solution which won't break anything. Please refer to the desktop entry spec. http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html The NotShowIn solution, I think, is the best way to solve the problem. In this way knetwork-manager won't be started in gnome, and nm-applet won't be started in KDE. The only pitfall is, if a user install both of them, and runs XFCE, both of them will be started. So, you can make nm-applet NotShowIn KDE, and make knetwork-manager OnlyShowIn KDE. knetworkmanager-autostart.desktop already has OnlyShowIn=KDE; And as PCman correctly stated, I don't think we need to change that to NotShowIn=GNOME; So the only change would be in nm-applet.desktop to NotShowIn=KDE. I guess this change would be fine, although it's unlikely that this fix will make it into lenny unfortunately (unless you help me to persuade the RMs that this change is important enough for granting a freeze exception) Andrew, do you also need/want the change to the nm-editor.desktop file? Under GNOME, nm-editor is listed in the Settings menu, does LXDE (or XFCE) have a similar concept of a config menu or config application? If not, I'd rather have it not listed in the regular applications menu, given that nm-editor has been deprecated and will be gone in 0.7 Cheers, Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
