Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de wrote: This is just a translation - not an interpretation. If that is the linguistic level of discussion, I don't feel inclined to continue. I cannot take into account each clumsy word-by-word translation that is possible in some language if my english wording it translated too literally. That isn't fun. Although I'm german, I didn't have any German wording in mind when writing the english templates. But now, einstellen instead of handhaben sounds easier to understand and less techno-speak to me. Same as above. The original says »handle«, not »set« or »change«. leo.org doesn't even show handhaben as a translation, dict.cc does. What about kann nicht umgehen mit? Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Sprecher B90/Grüne OV Miltenberg und Umgebung VCD Miltenberg, ADFC Aschaffenburg-Miltenberg Debian Developer (TeXLive) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Christian PERRIER bubu...@debian.org wrote: Another point is that we ran the full translation update round and that changing the wording now would require going through it again If we had ended up with a debconf message that uses the Term TeX only in the third sentence/phrase, I would not have hesitated to change it again. But since there is supposed to be a package name title, and only my chroot is missing it, there's no need to. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Sprecher B90/Grüne OV Miltenberg und Umgebung VCD Miltenberg, ADFC Aschaffenburg-Miltenberg Debian Developer (TeXLive) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Hi Frank, Frank Küster: Chris Leick wrote: Same as above. The original says »handle«, not »set« or »change«. leo.org doesn't even show handhaben as a translation, dict.cc does. What about kann nicht umgehen mit? Good idea. I've changed it. Thanks. Regards, Chris # German debconf translation of texlive-base. # Copyright (C) 2005 Norbert Preining, 2006 Frank Küster. # This file is distributed under the same license as the texlive-base package. # Translation by Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de, 2011 # msgid msgstr Project-Id-Version: texlive-base 2009-14\n Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: texlive-b...@packages.debian.org\n POT-Creation-Date: 2011-08-25 08:04+0200\n PO-Revision-Date: 2011-09-19 21:56+0200\n Last-Translator: Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de\n Language-Team: German debian-l10n-ger...@lists.debian.org\n MIME-Version: 1.0\n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8\n Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare SystempapiergröÃe (${libpaperPaper}) #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The currently defined system-wide paper size is ${libpaperPaper}. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper size for ${binary}. msgstr Die derzeit definierte systemweite PapiergröÃe ist ${libpaperPaper}. Das TeX-Konfigurationssystem kann jedoch nicht mit dieser PapiergröÃe für ${binary} umgehen. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The setting will remain unchanged. msgstr Die Einstellung wird unverändert bleiben. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The following command can show the list of known paper sizes for ${binary}: msgstr Der folgende Befehl kann eine Liste der bekannten PapiergröÃen für ${binary} anzeigen: #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid TeX binaries that should use the system paper size: msgstr TeX-Programme, die die SystempapiergröÃe nutzen sollen: #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid This system's TeX binaries currently use different default paper sizes. Please choose which of them should get the system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) as their default. msgstr Die TeX-Programme dieses Systems benutzen derzeit unterschiedliche StandardpapiergröÃen. Bitte wählen Sie, welche davon die SystempapiergröÃe (${libpaperPaper}) als Vorgabe annehmen soll.
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Quoting Frank Küster (fr...@kuesterei.ch): It is - it is simply the first line of the text, TeX configuration cannot That is also what I expected, but I would have called the thing between '┤ ├' the (window) title, and I assumed that the package name would be there. When Christian said the short description should appear in the title, I was alarmed because then the package name couldn't appear. It seems that I have a different understanding of title than Christian. But nevertheless the package name does _not_ appear. This is not expected. There should be package configuration which is the default window title (it can be modified with db_title and this can be localised in the templates file). Still, in my opinion, the synopsis is what you could call a title or a header. Which is my point for it not being a sentence, but your mileage may vary. Another point is that we ran the full translation update round and that changing the wording now would require going through it again signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Am 16.09.2011 22:43, schrieb Frank Küster: Hallo Chris, please find attached the German debconf translation of texlive-base. I slightly disagree on some of the translations. Chris Leickc.le...@vollbio.de wrote: #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare Systempapiergröße (${libpaperPaper}) This is correct, but I find it horrible to read in German. Is there any rule no to use a short sentence like systemweite Papiergröße kann nicht eingestellt werden? At least we should use systemweite Papiergröße as in later translations. The original string isn't »Unable to set system-wide paper size«. This is just a translation - not an interpretation. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The currently defined system-wide paper size is ${libpaperPaper}. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper size for ${binary}. msgstr Die derzeit definierte systemweite Papiergröße ist ${libpaperPaper}. Das TeX-Konfigurationssystem kann jedoch diese Papiergröße nicht für ${binary} handhaben. Although I'm german, I didn't have any German wording in mind when writing the english templates. But now, einstellen instead of handhaben sounds easier to understand and less techno-speak to me. Same as above. The original says »handle«, not »set« or »change«. #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid TeX binaries that should use the system paper size: msgstr TeX-Programme, die die Systempapiergröße nutzen sollten: Here it should rather be sollen, shouldn't it? There's no Konjunktiv anywhere, it's simply the choice of the sysadmin that is asked for. Or is the english badly worded? Ok. I've changed this string I've attached the new version. Kind regards, Chris # German debconf translation of texlive-base. # Copyright (C) 2005 Norbert Preining, 2006 Frank Küster. # This file is distributed under the same license as the texlive-base package. # Translation by Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de, 2011 # msgid msgstr Project-Id-Version: texlive-base 2009-14\n Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: texlive-b...@packages.debian.org\n POT-Creation-Date: 2011-08-25 08:04+0200\n PO-Revision-Date: 2011-09-18 11:28+0200\n Last-Translator: Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de\n Language-Team: German debian-l10n-ger...@lists.debian.org\n MIME-Version: 1.0\n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8\n Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare SystempapiergröÃe (${libpaperPaper}) #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The currently defined system-wide paper size is ${libpaperPaper}. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper size for ${binary}. msgstr Die derzeit definierte systemweite PapiergröÃe ist ${libpaperPaper}. Das TeX-Konfigurationssystem kann jedoch diese PapiergröÃe nicht für ${binary} handhaben. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The setting will remain unchanged. msgstr Die Einstellung wird unverändert bleiben. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The following command can show the list of known paper sizes for ${binary}: msgstr Der folgende Befehl kann eine Liste der bekannten PapiergröÃen für ${binary} anzeigen: #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid TeX binaries that should use the system paper size: msgstr TeX-Programme, die die SystempapiergröÃe nutzen sollen: #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid This system's TeX binaries currently use different default paper sizes. Please choose which of them should get the system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) as their default. msgstr Die TeX-Programme dieses Systems benutzen derzeit unterschiedliche StandardpapiergröÃen. Bitte wählen Sie, welche davon die SystempapiergröÃe (${libpaperPaper}) als Vorgabe annehmen soll.
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Quoting Frank Küster (fr...@debian.org): One of the points relates to a change that has been made in the english template review process. There seems to be a rule that makes sense in English, but I think its result is horrible in German. Can you comment on this? MOst of Debconf interface (and specifically the most common one, dialog) show note synopsis as a title. That explains why a fulle sentence with a verb is mostly viewed as inappropriate. That may differ in German, but I think that most German translators have stick to that rule (which is described in the DevRef). Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de wrote: #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare Systempapiergröße (${libpaperPaper}) This is correct, but I find it horrible to read in German. Is there any rule no to use a short sentence like systemweite Papiergröße kann nicht eingestellt werden? At least we should use systemweite Papiergröße as in later translations. The change to the templates was: -_Description: TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size ${libpaperPaper} +_Description: Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) In English, the change results in a shorter phrase which is easy to understand - and I hope it sounds good for native speakers. In German, the original translates quite well to what I suggested above, although I didn't remember the original wording. Whereas the translation of the changed english phrase sounds ugly and quirky to me. I would expect such a wording in an administrative decision, written by a clerk that doesn't care about language at all. Hard for me to comment, here..:-) My very limited knowledge of German shows me a translation that parallel to what we did in French. At least in French, I think this is both understandable and quite normal wording but it may differ in German. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Hi english and debconf message experts, Christian PERRIER bubu...@debian.org wrote: MOst of Debconf interface (and specifically the most common one, dialog) show note synopsis as a title. That explains why a fulle sentence with a verb is mostly viewed as inappropriate. Uups. I just tried with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=dialog, and what I get looks like this: ┌─┤ ├┐ │ │ │ TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size Monarch │ │ │ │ Your system-wide paper size is set to Monarch. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper │ │ size for all programs. I assumed that there would be the package name between the ──┤ ├── at the top, but it isn't. Which means that after the wording change -_Description: TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size ${libpaperPaper} +_Description: Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) it is hard for the user to understand what the dialog is talking about - they need to read to the second sentence in the second paragraph before finding the information that this is about TeX. Doesn't that mean we should reword the english short description again? And after adding a mention to TeX somewhere, we'd end up somewhere near to System paper size not manageable by the TeX configuration (note that 'TeX' only would be technically wrong). Quite near to the initial phrase... Moreover, I don't see why the title cannot be a short sentence, in particular since IIRC there are frontends that display only the short description. But it seems I am in a minority position here. That may differ in German, but I think that most German translators have stick to that rule (which is described in the DevRef). Hm, I don't read that there. There's no specific rule for error templates, but for some types, sentences are explicitly requested. For notes, it's said to be a title, and notes are near to errors. But I don't see why a good short error description shouldn't be a sentence. msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare Systempapiergröße (${libpaperPaper}) This is correct, but I find it horrible to read in German. Is there any rule no to use a short sentence like systemweite Papiergröße kann nicht eingestellt werden? [...] In German, the original translates quite well to what I suggested above, although I didn't remember the original wording. Whereas the translation of the changed english phrase sounds ugly and quirky to me. I would expect such a wording in an administrative decision, written by a clerk that doesn't care about language at all. Hard for me to comment, here..:-) My very limited knowledge of German shows me a translation that parallel to what we did in French. At least in French, I think this is both understandable and quite normal wording but it may differ in German. It's understandable, and it may even be common. But then it's common because there are lots of people, in particular in technical fields (and in that sense, administration is technical, too) that don't care about language... That doesn't make it less ugly to me, but ugly is a word that expresses a taste... Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Sprecher B90/Grüne OV Miltenberg und Umgebung VCD Miltenberg, ADFC Aschaffenburg-Miltenberg Debian Developer (TeXLive) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Frank Küster wrote: Uups. I just tried with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=dialog, and what I get looks like this: ┌─┤ ├┐ │ │ │ TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size Monarch │ │ │ │ Your system-wide paper size is set to Monarch. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper │ │ size for all programs. I assumed that there would be the package name between the ──┤ ├── at the top, but it isn't. Which means that after the wording change So the Description text isn't appearing anywhere? If this is the case then something's wrong that changing the wording won't fix (hopefully in my understanding of the situation). -_Description: TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size ${libpaperPaper} +_Description: Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) it is hard for the user to understand what the dialog is talking about - they need to read to the second sentence in the second paragraph before finding the information that this is about TeX. It rather depends on whether it's possible to reach this error without first having tried to configure a nonstandard system-wide default TeX paper size. If we know that's the last thing the user did then we can be relatively confident they won't assume it's (say) CUPS that's producing this error. Doesn't that mean we should reword the english short description again? And after adding a mention to TeX somewhere, we'd end up somewhere near to System paper size not manageable by the TeX configuration (note that 'TeX' only would be technically wrong). Quite near to the initial phrase... That's a bit long - if we keep the ${libpaperPaper} part people could end up faced with monster titles like: ┌┤System paper size (government-letter) not manageable by the TeX configuration├┐ If we're going to change it I'd be inclined to leave that information out of the title and slim it right down into something more like: _Description: TeX paper size configuration failure As it happens you could turn that into a grammatical sentence just by replacing failure with failed, but I wouldn't recommend it. -- JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Justin B Rye j...@edlug.org.uk wrote: Frank Küster wrote: Uups. I just tried with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=dialog, and what I get looks like this: ┌─┤ ├┐ │ │ │ TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size Monarch │ │ │ │ Your system-wide paper size is set to Monarch. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper │ │ size for all programs. I assumed that there would be the package name between the ──┤ ├── at the top, but it isn't. Which means that after the wording change So the Description text isn't appearing anywhere? It is - it is simply the first line of the text, TeX configuration cannot That is also what I expected, but I would have called the thing between '┤ ├' the (window) title, and I assumed that the package name would be there. When Christian said the short description should appear in the title, I was alarmed because then the package name couldn't appear. It seems that I have a different understanding of title than Christian. But nevertheless the package name does _not_ appear. -_Description: TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size ${libpaperPaper} +_Description: Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) it is hard for the user to understand what the dialog is talking about - they need to read to the second sentence in the second paragraph before finding the information that this is about TeX. It rather depends on whether it's possible to reach this error without first having tried to configure a nonstandard system-wide default TeX paper size. If we know that's the last thing the user did then we can be relatively confident they won't assume it's (say) CUPS that's producing this error. He might have done nothing but install a TeX system, maybe upon initial installation. Prior to that, libpaper will be installed and configured. If the user chose some exotic paper size for the system paper, the TeX configuration programs cannot handle this, and the error will be shown (and the TeX default will be a4). Doesn't that mean we should reword the english short description again? And after adding a mention to TeX somewhere, we'd end up somewhere near to System paper size not manageable by the TeX configuration (note that 'TeX' only would be technically wrong). Quite near to the initial phrase... That's a bit long - if we keep the ${libpaperPaper} part people could end up faced with monster titles like: ┌┤System paper size (government-letter) not manageable by the TeX configuration├┐ Ah, you mean it should be between the '┤ ├'? Is it on your system? On the other hand, the longest paper name that paperconfig --force suggests ist halfexecutive. _Description: TeX paper size configuration failure As it happens you could turn that into a grammatical sentence just by replacing failure with failed, but I wouldn't recommend it. In German, too: Fehler bei der Konfiguration der TeX-Papiergröße sounds much better than Konfiguration der TeX-Papiergröße fehlgeschlagen. Gruß, Frank -- Frank Küster Sprecher B90/Grüne OV Miltenberg und Umgebung VCD Miltenberg, ADFC Aschaffenburg-Miltenberg Debian Developer (TeXLive) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Hallo Chris, please find attached the German debconf translation of texlive-base. I slightly disagree on some of the translations. Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de wrote: #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare Systempapiergröße (${libpaperPaper}) This is correct, but I find it horrible to read in German. Is there any rule no to use a short sentence like systemweite Papiergröße kann nicht eingestellt werden? At least we should use systemweite Papiergröße as in later translations. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The currently defined system-wide paper size is ${libpaperPaper}. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper size for ${binary}. msgstr Die derzeit definierte systemweite Papiergröße ist ${libpaperPaper}. Das TeX-Konfigurationssystem kann jedoch diese Papiergröße nicht für ${binary} handhaben. Although I'm german, I didn't have any German wording in mind when writing the english templates. But now, einstellen instead of handhaben sounds easier to understand and less techno-speak to me. #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid TeX binaries that should use the system paper size: msgstr TeX-Programme, die die Systempapiergröße nutzen sollten: Here it should rather be sollen, shouldn't it? There's no Konjunktiv anywhere, it's simply the choice of the sysadmin that is asked for. Or is the english badly worded? Vielen Dank, Frank -- Frank Küster Sprecher B90/Grüne OV Miltenberg und Umgebung VCD Miltenberg, ADFC Aschaffenburg-Miltenberg Debian Developer (TeXLive) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Bonjour Christian, Frank Küster fr...@debian.org wrote: Hallo Chris, please find attached the German debconf translation of texlive-base. I slightly disagree on some of the translations. One of the points relates to a change that has been made in the english template review process. There seems to be a rule that makes sense in English, but I think its result is horrible in German. Can you comment on this? Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de wrote: #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare Systempapiergröße (${libpaperPaper}) This is correct, but I find it horrible to read in German. Is there any rule no to use a short sentence like systemweite Papiergröße kann nicht eingestellt werden? At least we should use systemweite Papiergröße as in later translations. The change to the templates was: -_Description: TeX configuration cannot handle the system paper size ${libpaperPaper} +_Description: Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) In English, the change results in a shorter phrase which is easy to understand - and I hope it sounds good for native speakers. In German, the original translates quite well to what I suggested above, although I didn't remember the original wording. Whereas the translation of the changed english phrase sounds ugly and quirky to me. I would expect such a wording in an administrative decision, written by a clerk that doesn't care about language at all. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Sprecher B90/Grüne OV Miltenberg und Umgebung VCD Miltenberg, ADFC Aschaffenburg-Miltenberg Debian Developer (TeXLive) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#640536: texlive-base: [INTL:de] Initial German debconf translation
Package: texlive-base Version: 2009-14 Severity: wishlist Tags: l10n Hi, please find attached the German debconf translation of texlive-base. Kind regards, Chris # German debconf translation of texlive-base. # Copyright (C) 2005 Norbert Preining, 2006 Frank Küster. # This file is distributed under the same license as the texlive-base package. # Translation by Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de, 2011 # msgid msgstr Project-Id-Version: texlive-base 2009-14\n Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: texlive-b...@packages.debian.org\n POT-Creation-Date: 2011-08-25 08:04+0200\n PO-Revision-Date: 2011-08-29 21:02+0200\n Last-Translator: Chris Leick c.le...@vollbio.de\n Language-Team: German debian-l10n-ger...@lists.debian.org\n MIME-Version: 1.0\n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8\n Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid Unmanageable system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) msgstr Nicht verwaltbare SystempapiergröÃe (${libpaperPaper}) #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The currently defined system-wide paper size is ${libpaperPaper}. However, the TeX configuration system cannot handle this paper size for ${binary}. msgstr Die derzeit definierte systemweite PapiergröÃe ist ${libpaperPaper}. Das TeX-Konfigurationssystem kann jedoch diese PapiergröÃe nicht für ${binary} handhaben. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The setting will remain unchanged. msgstr Die Einstellung wird unverändert bleiben. #. Type: error #. Description #: ../templates:2001 msgid The following command can show the list of known paper sizes for ${binary}: msgstr Der folgende Befehl kann eine Liste der bekannten PapiergröÃen für ${binary} anzeigen: #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid TeX binaries that should use the system paper size: msgstr TeX-Programme, die die SystempapiergröÃe nutzen sollten: #. Type: multiselect #. Description #: ../templates:3001 msgid This system's TeX binaries currently use different default paper sizes. Please choose which of them should get the system paper size (${libpaperPaper}) as their default. msgstr Die TeX-Programme dieses Systems benutzen derzeit unterschiedliche StandardpapiergröÃen. Bitte wählen Sie, welche davon die SystempapiergröÃe (${libpaperPaper}) als Vorgabe annehmen soll.