Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2014-03-23 23:36:08 -0500, David Smith wrote:
> Yes.  In short, it appears that the upstream maintainer doesn't believe
> that every software application ever made should go out of it's way to
> present a configuration option to the user to change how that one
> application presents date and time to the user. 
> 
> I can't blame him. In my opinion, applications would be user friendly if
> they had more consistency about these kinds of things.

Well, Liferea has its own format. So, it's inconsistent with this
other applications.

> From what I read above it seems that liferea will continue displaying
> date/time based on language/locale settings. So marking as wontfix seems
> appropriate.

Liferea is not displaying date/time based on language/locale settings.
Moreover there are several ways to display the date/time based on
locale settings. For instance, the month can be displayed either as
a number or as a sequence of letters. Some users will want one form,
others will want some other form.

The only standard way I know to display combined date/time is
strftime's %c format. But I don't think anyone would like it for
Liferea, as it would take much space, in particular.

> I'd assume that now with GTK3 there would be a way to specify custom
> date/time formatting and have it applied across all GTK3 applications. 
> Is that not the case?

I don't know. Make sure that the customization is not too basic...

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[David Smith]

tags 667973 wontfix
done.

On 03/23/2014 08:09 PM, Marcelo Lacerda wrote:
> Considering that the upstream maintainer have adamantly stated that he
> will not implement the requested feature, should this bug be marked as
> "wontfix"?
>
Yes.  In short, it appears that the upstream maintainer doesn't believe
that every software application ever made should go out of it's way to
present a configuration option to the user to change how that one
application presents date and time to the user. 

I can't blame him. In my opinion, applications would be user friendly if
they had more consistency about these kinds of things.

>From what I read above it seems that liferea will continue displaying
date/time based on language/locale settings. So marking as wontfix seems
appropriate.

I'd assume that now with GTK3 there would be a way to specify custom
date/time formatting and have it applied across all GTK3 applications. 
Is that not the case?

-David


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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2014-03-23 22:09:47 -0300, Marcelo Lacerda wrote:
> Considering that the upstream maintainer have adamantly stated that he will
> not implement the requested feature, should this bug be marked as "wontfix"?

In my case, I stopped using Liferea since upstream didn't want to
make some basic features (such as date formatting) configurable[*],
and didn't want to waste my time maintaining the patch.

[*] and also because this new date feature was broken:

  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=677696

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Marcelo Lacerda]

Considering that the upstream maintainer have adamantly stated that he 
will not implement the requested feature, should this bug be marked as 
"wontfix"?



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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-06-28 00:20:44 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> Am 28.06.2012 00:17, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> >On 2012-06-28 00:13:39 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> >>Am 28.06.2012 00:10, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> >>>On 2012-06-27 23:50:30 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> Sorry, I hereby give up explaining my point.
> >>>You can patch Liferea so that one can have the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss
> >>>time format and document what the user should do in order to have it.
> >>Sure I can but I do not want to as the project needs less code
> >>to be maintainable.
> >You can remove all the bloated code Liferea already has concerning
> >date formatting, and use the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss format instead
> >(or %c if you really want it to be specified by the locales). It
> >would have less code and be more maintainable.
> Sure, if I want to remove a IMO totally sane formatting style...

Sane for you. Totally insane for me.

BTW, if it were really sane, it would already have been provided by
some locales, e.g. for %c.

> Vincent I do not share your opinion on the date format being
> broken and as I explained on the long term their will be a one
> liner using the glib method.

You didn't. You said (in <4fe9f721.3010...@gmail.com>) that the
glib method was for date parsing, not for date formatting.

> Without any user interfaces to define format strings only
> programmers do understand...

That's not completely true. See Mozilla's about:config feature, which
is also used by non-programmers. All one needs is documentation, even
if not provided with the application (e.g. documentation found on the
web).

(I'm starting to think that the best method would be an HTML5 interface,
where the user could have his own scripts.)

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

Am 28.06.2012 00:17, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

On 2012-06-28 00:13:39 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:

Am 28.06.2012 00:10, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

On 2012-06-27 23:50:30 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:

Sorry, I hereby give up explaining my point.

You can patch Liferea so that one can have the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss
time format and document what the user should do in order to have it.

Sure I can but I do not want to as the project needs less code
to be maintainable.

You can remove all the bloated code Liferea already has concerning
date formatting, and use the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss format instead
(or %c if you really want it to be specified by the locales). It
would have less code and be more maintainable.

Sure, if I want to remove a IMO totally sane formatting style...
Vincent I do not share your opinion on the date format being
broken and as I explained on the long term their will be a one
liner using the glib method. Without any user interfaces to
define format strings only programmers do understand...

Let's end this discussion.




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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-06-28 00:13:39 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> Am 28.06.2012 00:10, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> >On 2012-06-27 23:50:30 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> >>Sorry, I hereby give up explaining my point.
> >You can patch Liferea so that one can have the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss
> >time format and document what the user should do in order to have it.
> Sure I can but I do not want to as the project needs less code
> to be maintainable.

You can remove all the bloated code Liferea already has concerning
date formatting, and use the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss format instead
(or %c if you really want it to be specified by the locales). It
would have less code and be more maintainable.

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

Am 28.06.2012 00:10, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

On 2012-06-27 23:50:30 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:

Sorry, I hereby give up explaining my point.

You can patch Liferea so that one can have the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss
time format and document what the user should do in order to have it.

Sure I can but I do not want to as the project needs less code
to be maintainable.




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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-06-27 23:50:30 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> Sorry, I hereby give up explaining my point.

You can patch Liferea so that one can have the -MM-DD hh:mm:ss
time format and document what the user should do in order to have
it.

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

Am 27.06.2012 23:10, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

On 2012-06-27 22:31:24 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:

Am 27.06.2012 19:16, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

Note: for coreutils, the format of timestamps of files is specified
by the $TIME_STYLE environment variable. I mention this because
timestamps of files and timestamps of feed items are a bit similar.

You are right. The coreutils $TIME_STYLE is the same feature.
So what's left to do is to take the French localization from coreutils
and apply the format codes to the French Liferea localization.

I don't understand what you mean. There's nothing related to French
here. $TIME_STYLE is just a user configuration. BTW, I use coreutils
under English locales.

What is related to locales is %c, e.g.

$ date +%c
2012-06-27T23:00:36 CEST

with my $LC_TIME, which is en_DK (the well-known locale that follows
the ISO 8601 standard).

That's very close to my $TIME_STYLE config (CEST isn't really useful
information when space is limited - there may be an slight ambiguity
just twice a year).

%c is what Firefox uses, e.g. on "View Page Info".

That's the fixed format that should be the closest to what the user
expects (via his LC_TIME locale or fallback). But it may take too
much space in the context of Liferea (users may not want the timezone
information, and some other users may not want the seconds either,
and humans may prefer a space rather than a "T" in this particular
locale). That's why a format completely configurable by the user
(basically a user-provided strftime string) is preferred.

Sorry, I hereby give up explaining my point.

Regards,
Lars



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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-06-27 22:31:24 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> Am 27.06.2012 19:16, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> >Note: for coreutils, the format of timestamps of files is specified
> >by the $TIME_STYLE environment variable. I mention this because
> >timestamps of files and timestamps of feed items are a bit similar.
> You are right. The coreutils $TIME_STYLE is the same feature.
> So what's left to do is to take the French localization from coreutils
> and apply the format codes to the French Liferea localization.

I don't understand what you mean. There's nothing related to French
here. $TIME_STYLE is just a user configuration. BTW, I use coreutils
under English locales.

What is related to locales is %c, e.g.

$ date +%c
2012-06-27T23:00:36 CEST

with my $LC_TIME, which is en_DK (the well-known locale that follows
the ISO 8601 standard).

That's very close to my $TIME_STYLE config (CEST isn't really useful
information when space is limited - there may be an slight ambiguity
just twice a year).

%c is what Firefox uses, e.g. on "View Page Info".

That's the fixed format that should be the closest to what the user
expects (via his LC_TIME locale or fallback). But it may take too
much space in the context of Liferea (users may not want the timezone
information, and some other users may not want the seconds either,
and humans may prefer a space rather than a "T" in this particular
locale). That's why a format completely configurable by the user
(basically a user-provided strftime string) is preferred.

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

Am 27.06.2012 19:16, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

On 2012-06-27 15:07:29 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:

It seems that you don't use strftime() with a time format specified
by the user. Or how can it be configurable without the patch?

We do use strftime() with translation defined time strings.

A translation defined time string (a string that depends on the
language, if I understand correctly) is not sufficient: for each
language, there are many ways to represent a date, and each user
has his own preferences. For me, it is "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S" for
all dates.

I do not doubt that each users has own ideal preferences.


Note: for coreutils, the format of timestamps of files is specified
by the $TIME_STYLE environment variable. I mention this because
timestamps of files and timestamps of feed items are a bit similar.

You are right. The coreutils $TIME_STYLE is the same feature.
So what's left to do is to take the French localization from coreutils
and apply the format codes to the French Liferea localization.




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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-06-27 15:07:29 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> > It seems that you don't use strftime() with a time format specified
> > by the user. Or how can it be configurable without the patch?
> 
> We do use strftime() with translation defined time strings.

A translation defined time string (a string that depends on the
language, if I understand correctly) is not sufficient: for each
language, there are many ways to represent a date, and each user
has his own preferences. For me, it is "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S" for
all dates.

Note: for coreutils, the format of timestamps of files is specified
by the $TIME_STYLE environment variable. I mention this because
timestamps of files and timestamps of feed items are a bit similar.

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> On 2012-06-27 12:49:48 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
>> > strptime() does parsing, not formatting. strftime() does formatting,
>> > and you should use it with a time format that can be specified by
>> > the user (not the hardcoded format like now).
>>
>> Sorry about the typo. Did you really think we do not use strftime()
>> for formatting? How would we get any useful output with strptime()...
>
> It seems that you don't use strftime() with a time format specified
> by the user. Or how can it be configurable without the patch?

We do use strftime() with translation defined time strings.



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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-06-27 12:49:48 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> > strptime() does parsing, not formatting. strftime() does formatting,
> > and you should use it with a time format that can be specified by
> > the user (not the hardcoded format like now).
> 
> Sorry about the typo. Did you really think we do not use strftime()
> for formatting? How would we get any useful output with strptime()...

It seems that you don't use strftime() with a time format specified
by the user. Or how can it be configurable without the patch?

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> On 2012-06-26 19:53:37 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
>> Am 16.06.2012 21:17, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
>> >On 2012-06-16 20:38:52 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
>> >>The idea was to radically simplify the date formatting by relying
>> >>only on a single glib method... (which ATM is not yet possible due
>> >>to a glib bug...).
>> >Do you mean that date formatting should be provided by glib?
>> >If it is itself configurable, then yes, that would be the best
>> >solution.
>> No, not at all. Only the date parsing.
>>
>> The formatting is performed using strptime().
>
> strptime() does parsing, not formatting. strftime() does formatting,
> and you should use it with a time format that can be specified by
> the user (not the hardcoded format like now).

Sorry about the typo. Did you really think we do not use strftime()
for formatting? How would we get any useful output with strptime()...

>> The format codes are supplied by the language translations
>
> The default date format in Liferea is broken, as it is a mix of
> French and English here.

Then the translation of the time format literals should be fixed.



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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-06-26 19:53:37 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> Am 16.06.2012 21:17, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> >On 2012-06-16 20:38:52 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> >>The idea was to radically simplify the date formatting by relying
> >>only on a single glib method... (which ATM is not yet possible due
> >>to a glib bug...).
> >Do you mean that date formatting should be provided by glib?
> >If it is itself configurable, then yes, that would be the best
> >solution.
> No, not at all. Only the date parsing.
> 
> The formatting is performed using strptime().

strptime() does parsing, not formatting. strftime() does formatting,
and you should use it with a time format that can be specified by
the user (not the hardcoded format like now).

> The format codes are supplied by the language translations

The default date format in Liferea is broken, as it is a mix of
French and English here.

> and follow the standard time format shortening as found in mail
> clients

My MUA, Mutt, uses strftime, with user-supplied time format. This is
all what I need with Liferea.

> and GNOME.

GNOME sucks. It doesn't follow standards, such as LC_TIME.

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

Am 16.06.2012 21:17, schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

tags 667973 patch upstream
thanks

On 2012-06-16 20:38:52 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:

Sorry guys. I dropped it for simplicity. As less and less work goes
into Liferea minor use cases have to be dropped for maintainting the
whole thing.

I really hate the default date format. I've attached an old patch that
still works for me (IIRC, it just re-adds the old code). Concerning
simplicity, making just the date configurable by the user is much
simpler than the whole complex (and broken) date_format_nice function.

Concerning simplicity for a skilled end-user you are right.
May main concern is further maintaining Liferea. I want to
simplify the code while still providing an optimum at features.

The idea was to radically simplify the date formatting by relying
only on a single glib method... (which ATM is not yet possible due
to a glib bug...).

Do you mean that date formatting should be provided by glib?
If it is itself configurable, then yes, that would be the best
solution.

No, not at all. Only the date parsing.

The formatting is performed using strptime(). The format codes
are supplied by the language translations and follow the standard
time format shortening as found in mail clients and GNOME.

With Best Regards,
Lars



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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

tags 667973 patch upstream
thanks

On 2012-06-16 20:38:52 +0200, Lars Windolf wrote:
> Sorry guys. I dropped it for simplicity. As less and less work goes
> into Liferea minor use cases have to be dropped for maintainting the
> whole thing.

I really hate the default date format. I've attached an old patch that
still works for me (IIRC, it just re-adds the old code). Concerning
simplicity, making just the date configurable by the user is much
simpler than the whole complex (and broken) date_format_nice function.

> The idea was to radically simplify the date formatting by relying
> only on a single glib method... (which ATM is not yet possible due
> to a glib bug...).

Do you mean that date formatting should be provided by glib?
If it is itself configurable, then yes, that would be the best
solution.

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diff -Naurd liferea-1.8.0.old/src/date.c liferea-1.8.0.new/src/date.c
--- liferea-1.8.0.old/src/date.c2011-11-28 21:50:57.0 +
+++ liferea-1.8.0.new/src/date.c2011-12-24 21:31:07.0 +
@@ -141,7 +141,20 @@
result = g_new0 (gchar, TIMESTRLEN);
e_utf8_strftime_fix_am_pm (result, TIMESTRLEN, date_format, 
&date_tm);
} else {
-   result = date_format_nice (date);
+   gchar *fmt;
+   conf_get_str_value ("/apps/liferea/date-format", &fmt);
+   if (fmt && !strlen (fmt)) {
+   g_free (fmt);
+   fmt = NULL;
+   }
+   if (fmt) {
+   localtime_r (&date, &date_tm);
+   result = g_new0 (gchar, TIMESTRLEN);
+   e_utf8_strftime_fix_am_pm (result, TIMESTRLEN, fmt, 
&date_tm);
+   g_free (fmt);
+   } else {
+   result = date_format_nice (date);
+   }
}
 
return result;

Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Lars Windolf]

Sorry guys. I dropped it for simplicity. As less and less work goes into Liferea
minor use cases have to be dropped for maintainting the whole thing.

The idea was to radically simplify the date formatting by relying only on
a single glib method... (which ATM is not yet possible due to a glib bug...).

Regards,
Lars

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> found 667973 1.8.5-0.1
> thanks
>
> On 2012-04-07 22:20:20 +0300, Mike wrote:
>> After update to 1.8.3 liferea doesn't use date format specified by
>> date-format key in GConf.
>
> I confirm. :(
>
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> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
>
>
>



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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Vincent Lefevre]

found 667973 1.8.5-0.1
thanks

On 2012-04-07 22:20:20 +0300, Mike wrote:
> After update to 1.8.3 liferea doesn't use date format specified by
> date-format key in GConf.

I confirm. :(

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Bug#667973: liferea: Custom date format doesn't work anymore

[Mike]

Package: liferea
Version: 1.8.3-0.1
Severity: normal

After update to 1.8.3 liferea doesn't use date format specified by date-format
key in GConf.



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Debian Release: wheezy/sid
  APT prefers testing-proposed-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'testing-proposed-updates'), (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.2.0-2-amd64 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Versions of packages liferea depends on:
ii  gconf-service   3.2.3-4
ii  gconf2  3.2.3-4
ii  libatk1.0-0 2.2.0-2
ii  libc6   2.13-27
ii  libcairo2   1.10.2-7
ii  libgconf-2-43.2.3-4
ii  libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0  2.24.1-1
ii  libglib2.0-02.30.2-6
ii  libgtk2.0-0 2.24.10-1
ii  libice6 2:1.0.7-2
ii  libjson-glib-1.0-0  0.14.2-1
ii  libnotify4  0.7.4-1
ii  libpango1.0-0   1.29.4-3+b1
ii  libsm6  2:1.2.0-2
ii  libsoup2.4-12.34.3-1
ii  libsqlite3-03.7.11-2
ii  libunique-1.0-0 1.1.6-4
ii  libwebkitgtk-1.0-0  1.6.3-1
ii  libxml2 2.7.8.dfsg-7
ii  libxslt1.1  1.1.26-8
ii  liferea-data1.8.3-0.1

Versions of packages liferea recommends:
ii  curl  7.24.0-1
ii  dbus  1.4.18-1
ii  dbus-x11  1.4.18-1
ii  wget  1.13.4-2

Versions of packages liferea suggests:
ii  network-manager  0.9.2.0-2

-- no debconf information



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