Bug#682010: mumble and celt, #682010, TC

2012-07-20 Thread Ian Jackson 
Ron writes (Re: mumble and celt, #682010, TC):
 On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 07:18:31PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
  Since Ron is listed as co-maintainer for mumble do you feel you have
  the authority to do this ?  I imagine Ron would object, so you would
  in any case need a TC ruling to arbitrate between you.
 
 *sigh*  Why would you imagine this?

I imagined you would object because it would amount to undoing a
change that you yourself had made.

Clearly a respectful co-maintainer would not simply undo a change made
by one of their colleagues, at least without discussion.  Particularly
not in a difficult and controversial situation.

 If you have no objection to that, then I guess it's all settled.
 You can put down the Dad Knows Best hat, and leave it to Thorvald and I
 to sort out the details.

Please stop being so rude.

Ian.


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Bug#682010: mumble and celt, #682010, TC

2012-07-19 Thread Ron 
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 07:56:06PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
 Ian Jackson writes (Re: mumble and celt, #682010, TC):
  Patrick Matthäi writes (Re: mumble and celt, #682010, TC):
   I were the maintainer, with Thorvald, since mumble is included in Debian 
   and declined this job, since I were personaly attacked by some of our 
   DDs. I also talked with our leader about this situation.
   
   Philipp and I *wanted* to continue the maintenance of celt for the 
   lifetime of wheezy, but for this idea Philipp and I just get more and 
   more personal insults, with the side effects that:
   1) Philipp gave up *all* his efforts on Debian
   2) I also wanted to resign, didn't done it but sorry now I have got a 
   fu... opinion about this
  
  I'm sorry you feel this way.
 ...
   Well known and he did everything so that nobody wants to do this job, 
   that - with the insults from some other DDs - is the only reason why I 
   do not want to do this job, anymore, but thanks for asking.
  
  If you had the support of the Technical Committee, would it help ?
 
 I have spoken to Patrick Matthaei on irc and he has informed me that,
 unfortunately, he does not want to get involved in this situation
 again, because of the abuse he has received.
 
 Now, both Philippe and Patrick have alleged abuse; unfortunately, I am
 told, this was in private mainly via irc.  There apparently aren't any
 appropriate logs.
 
 I would like to emphasise that personal abuse and insults along the
 lines described informally to me by Patrick are wholly unacceptable
 from one participant in Debian to another.
 
 In future, I would encourage anyone who is on the receiving end of
 abusve behaviour to immediately contact, in private, someone in a
 position of authority in the project; you should give a complete irc
 transcript or the full text of relevant emails, etc.  If your irc
 client does not have logging enabled then a screenshot is good.
 (Please try to avoid publicly post your accusations of abuse, naming
 the accused, if you can.)
 
 I'm sure that members of the TC, the Project Leader, former DPLs, and
 the suchlike would be happy to help anyone who is the victim of such
 abuse.  Part of our responsibility is to use our positions of
 influence to make sure that abuse does not continue.

I think I might actually have logs of the ALL CAPS screaming abuse I
received from Patrick Matthäi ...

But I'm not going to be so childish as to think that posting them
publicly or to others will actually make anything about that better.

The irony was amusing for a nanosecond though.

 Ron


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Bug#682010: mumble and celt, #682010, TC

2012-07-19 Thread Ron 
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 07:18:31PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
 Thorvald Natvig writes (Re: mumble and celt, #682010, TC):
  For now, the easiest is probably to re-enable Mumble to build the
  embedded CELT, something it currently does not do. That way it is just a
 single package, and we can deal with problems as they come up.
 
 Since Ron is listed as co-maintainer for mumble do you feel you have
 the authority to do this ?  I imagine Ron would object, so you would
 in any case need a TC ruling to arbitrate between you.

*sigh*  Why would you imagine this?

I already told you I have the utmost faith in Thorvald, and this is *his*
software for pitysake.  I also already suggested exactly this as the
least-worst option, and you shot me down ...

Now you think it's a great idea?

Why on earth do you think I would need someone else to arbitrate with
someone I actually respect?

I would love nothing more than for Thorvald to find the time to come back
on the scene and take care of this for Wheezy.

If you have no objection to that, then I guess it's all settled.
You can put down the Dad Knows Best hat, and leave it to Thorvald and I
to sort out the details.

Done Deal?

 Ron


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