Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 17:34 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: On Montag, 6. Mai 2013, Andy Simpkins wrote: As part of the upgrade to Wheezy, sysklogd got removed. There was no replacement log system installed in its place. The system was origanlly installed under Lenny, before an upgrade squeeze. This means that rsyslogd was not installed on the system. [...] I don't really have an opinion either way, but I'm sure the stable release team wouldn't be too happy over the introduction of a new binary package in wheezy. Not hugely, indeed. I want to add, that the release notes of lenny very clearly communicated, that sysklogd was deprecated and had been replaced by rsyslog, even though I also admit that sadly not everyone reads the release notes. It indicates that sysklogd is no longer the default, but I'm not convinced that it yells please get rid of sysklogd from your systems as loudly as maybe it should have. Hindsight is 20/20, of course. :-| In any case, as discussed on IRC a little while ago, I'm currently leaning towards improving the documentation here rather than adding the new package. That's not simply an aversion to introducing packages to stable post-release, but a concern that unless the configuration conversion is very clever we could end up with people having syslogds which appear to be running happily but are not actually logging what / where they expect; that's likely to be less obvious to spot than the absence of any logging. Regards, Adam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 08:27:23PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote: On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 06:31:08PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Am 09.05.2013 17:56, schrieb Roger Leigh: The transitional package does need a version higher than the initscripts Breaks: sysklogd ( 1.5-6.2) so a 1.5-7 would be OK. This could be done as a separate sysklogd package or as part of rsyslog. Since the rsyslog version is higher, it could provide a transitional package with its own version number, saving the need for nasty independently-versioned binary packages. Keep in mind, that sysklogd is still available in sid. So the version in wheezy would be higher than what is in sid. I'm not sure what to do about this, tbh. Maybe the least controversial we can do, is to at least document this issue in the release notes. But as already said, this needs input from the release team in any case. So we definitely need a transition in stable. And since it's also missing in testing, if we're going to do a transition in stable, which we will have to, we should really also be doing this in unstable as well at the same time. If the sysklogd maintainers are willing, we could: · upload rsyslog update to stable-proposed updates containing the transitional package · remove sysklogd from unstable · upload rsyslog to unstable containing the transitional package; this will allow transition in testing and unstable so the migration to rsyslog will be completed for jessie The transitional package could also potentially add $IncludeConfig /etc/syslog.conf to /etc/rsyslog.d as suggested by Russ Allbery. sysklogd is now removed from unstable, so if the rsyslog maintainers wish to put a transitional package in place in unstable, that's now possible. Stable release managers: would rsyslog putting a transitional package into stable be acceptable, so that sysklogd users upgrading to wheezy won't be left in a state where they don't have an installing syslog? Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' schroot and sbuild http://alioth.debian.org/projects/buildd-tools `-GPG Public Key F33D 281D 470A B443 6756 147C 07B3 C8BC 4083 E800 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#707004: [Pkg-sysvinit-devel] Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
[Roger Leigh] sysklogd is dead upstream and unmaintained in Debian for over 2½ years. It has been practically abandoned for a lot longer than that. The lack of maintenance of sysklogd is part of the reason rsyslog took over in Debian, many years ago. -- Happy hacking Petter Reinholdtsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#707004: [Pkg-sysvinit-devel] Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:37:14AM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Roger Leigh] sysklogd is dead upstream and unmaintained in Debian for over 2½ years. It has been practically abandoned for a lot longer than that. The lack of maintenance of sysklogd is part of the reason rsyslog took over in Debian, many years ago. I opened #707655 against ftp.debian.org to request its removal. Just mentioning it here in case anyone has anything to add there. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' schroot and sbuild http://alioth.debian.org/projects/buildd-tools `-GPG Public Key F33D 281D 470A B443 6756 147C 07B3 C8BC 4083 E800 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
Hi Andy, thanks for your bug report. I tend to think this is indeed a bug in the initscript package, but before assigning it there, I'd like to ask the relevant maintainers (cc:ed) for feedback. On Montag, 6. Mai 2013, Andy Simpkins wrote: Package: upgrade-reports Severity: important Dear Maintainer, As part of the upgrade to Wheezy, sysklogd got removed. There was no replacement log system installed in its place. The system was origanlly installed under Lenny, before an upgrade squeeze. This means that rsyslogd was not installed on the system. To reproduce this: 1) Create a squeeze chroot with standard debootstrap 2) install sysklogd manually 3) Change apt.sources to wheezy 4) apt-get update 5) apt-get dist-upgrade OR apt-get initscripts (sysklogd was removed from wheezy due to an RC bug) Suggested fix could be to install a transitional package into wheezy proposed updates called sysklogd at a version sufficient for the Breaks: given in init-scrpts in wheezy, letting this package Depends: on rsyslog /Andy RattusRattus cheers, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
Am 09.05.2013 10:30, schrieb Holger Levsen: Hi Andy, thanks for your bug report. I tend to think this is indeed a bug in the initscript package, but before assigning it there, I'd like to ask the relevant maintainers (cc:ed) for feedback. On Montag, 6. Mai 2013, Andy Simpkins wrote: Package: upgrade-reports Severity: important Dear Maintainer, As part of the upgrade to Wheezy, sysklogd got removed. There was no replacement log system installed in its place. The system was origanlly installed under Lenny, before an upgrade squeeze. This means that rsyslogd was not installed on the system. To reproduce this: 1) Create a squeeze chroot with standard debootstrap 2) install sysklogd manually 3) Change apt.sources to wheezy 4) apt-get update 5) apt-get dist-upgrade OR apt-get initscripts (sysklogd was removed from wheezy due to an RC bug) Suggested fix could be to install a transitional package into wheezy proposed updates called sysklogd at a version sufficient for the Breaks: given in init-scrpts in wheezy, letting this package Depends: on rsyslog I don't really have an opinion either way, but I'm sure the stable release team wouldn't be too happy over the introduction of a new binary package in wheezy. I want to add, that the release notes of lenny very clearly communicated, that sysklogd was deprecated and had been replaced by rsyslog, even though I also admit that sadly not everyone reads the release notes. As for the transitional package: from which source package should this be built? Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 05:34:26PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Am 09.05.2013 10:30, schrieb Holger Levsen: Hi Andy, thanks for your bug report. I tend to think this is indeed a bug in the initscript package, but before assigning it there, I'd like to ask the relevant maintainers (cc:ed) for feedback. On Montag, 6. Mai 2013, Andy Simpkins wrote: Package: upgrade-reports Severity: important Dear Maintainer, As part of the upgrade to Wheezy, sysklogd got removed. There was no replacement log system installed in its place. The system was origanlly installed under Lenny, before an upgrade squeeze. This means that rsyslogd was not installed on the system. To reproduce this: 1) Create a squeeze chroot with standard debootstrap 2) install sysklogd manually 3) Change apt.sources to wheezy 4) apt-get update 5) apt-get dist-upgrade OR apt-get initscripts (sysklogd was removed from wheezy due to an RC bug) Suggested fix could be to install a transitional package into wheezy proposed updates called sysklogd at a version sufficient for the Breaks: given in init-scrpts in wheezy, letting this package Depends: on rsyslog I don't really have an opinion either way, but I'm sure the stable release team wouldn't be too happy over the introduction of a new binary package in wheezy. I want to add, that the release notes of lenny very clearly communicated, that sysklogd was deprecated and had been replaced by rsyslog, even though I also admit that sadly not everyone reads the release notes. As for the transitional package: from which source package should this be built? I don't think this is strictly the business of sysvinit, which doesn't itself get involved with this. initscripts does have a Breaks on older versions of both rsyslog and sysklogd, which may trigger removal. But that's purely a side-effect of the /run transition. This should really have been handled by a transitional package--how come this didn't happen 18 months back? The transitional package does need a version higher than the initscripts Breaks: sysklogd ( 1.5-6.2) so a 1.5-7 would be OK. This could be done as a separate sysklogd package or as part of rsyslog. Since the rsyslog version is higher, it could provide a transitional package with its own version number, saving the need for nasty independently-versioned binary packages. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' schroot and sbuild http://alioth.debian.org/projects/buildd-tools `-GPG Public Key F33D 281D 470A B443 6756 147C 07B3 C8BC 4083 E800 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
Am 09.05.2013 17:56, schrieb Roger Leigh: The transitional package does need a version higher than the initscripts Breaks: sysklogd ( 1.5-6.2) so a 1.5-7 would be OK. This could be done as a separate sysklogd package or as part of rsyslog. Since the rsyslog version is higher, it could provide a transitional package with its own version number, saving the need for nasty independently-versioned binary packages. Keep in mind, that sysklogd is still available in sid. So the version in wheezy would be higher than what is in sid. I'm not sure what to do about this, tbh. Maybe the least controversial we can do, is to at least document this issue in the release notes. But as already said, this needs input from the release team in any case. Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 06:31:08PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Am 09.05.2013 17:56, schrieb Roger Leigh: The transitional package does need a version higher than the initscripts Breaks: sysklogd ( 1.5-6.2) so a 1.5-7 would be OK. This could be done as a separate sysklogd package or as part of rsyslog. Since the rsyslog version is higher, it could provide a transitional package with its own version number, saving the need for nasty independently-versioned binary packages. Keep in mind, that sysklogd is still available in sid. So the version in wheezy would be higher than what is in sid. I'm not sure what to do about this, tbh. Maybe the least controversial we can do, is to at least document this issue in the release notes. But as already said, this needs input from the release team in any case. So we definitely need a transition in stable. And since it's also missing in testing, if we're going to do a transition in stable, which we will have to, we should really also be doing this in unstable as well at the same time. If the sysklogd maintainers are willing, we could: · upload rsyslog update to stable-proposed updates containing the transitional package · remove sysklogd from unstable · upload rsyslog to unstable containing the transitional package; this will allow transition in testing and unstable so the migration to rsyslog will be completed for jessie The transitional package could also potentially add $IncludeConfig /etc/syslog.conf to /etc/rsyslog.d as suggested by Russ Allbery. sysklogd is dead upstream and unmaintained in Debian for over 2½ years. I would prefer to be able to do the above, but if not we can upload a standalone transitional package to stable-proposed-updates only and then sysklogd would need to be fixed in unstable and migrate to testing. Is there anyone who would want to fix up sysklogd and maintain it? Unless there is, I think it's well past time for it to be removed from unstable. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' schroot and sbuild http://alioth.debian.org/projects/buildd-tools `-GPG Public Key F33D 281D 470A B443 6756 147C 07B3 C8BC 4083 E800 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#707004: upgrade-reports: sysklogd removed when upgrading from squeeze to wheezy (system existed under lenny) NO log deamon installed to replace it
Package: upgrade-reports Severity: important Dear Maintainer, As part of the upgrade to Wheezy, sysklogd got removed. There was no replacement log system installed in its place. The system was origanlly installed under Lenny, before an upgrade squeeze. This means that rsyslogd was not installed on the system. To reproduce this: 1) Create a squeeze chroot with standard debootstrap 2) install sysklogd manually 3) Change apt.sources to wheezy 4) apt-get update 5) apt-get dist-upgrade OR apt-get initscripts (sysklogd was removed from wheezy due to an RC bug) Suggested fix could be to install a transitional package into wheezy proposed updates called sysklogd at a version sufficient for the Breaks: given in init-scrpts in wheezy, letting this package Depends: on rsyslog /Andy RattusRattus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
