Bug#749355: Bug#718816: Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
S, how likely it is that in stretch we will be able to have both moreutils and parallel installed?
Bug#718816: Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
On 2015-07-11 15:24:09, Nicolas Schier wrote: Dear Antoine, thanks for your good summary and your patience ... just to get it right, could you please check if I did get it right (the moreutils side): 1. Package 'moreutils' installs /usr/bin/mparallel and depends on package 'moreutils-parallel'; the latter installs a symlink /usr/bin/parallel - mparallel 'moreutils-parallel' conflicts 'parallel-gnu' and 'parallel = 20141022+ds1-1' I suggested /usr/bin/parallel.moreutils - it seems less ambiguous than mparallel and will allow discovery through commandline completion. This otherwise seems to make sense. 2. 'ikiwiki-hosting' is changed to use 'mparallel' or to depend on 'moreutils-parallel' and use '/usr/bin/parallel' 'ikiwiki-hosting' is changed to stop conflicting with parallel Good. 3. Package 'moreutils' recommends (no more depends) on 'moreutils-parallel' Also makes sense. It's my first time dealing with diversions so I hope I got this right. Any constructive modifications on the above checklists are welcome here! Right now, I can't see why we should use diversions: if moreutils-parallel and parallel-gnu conflict with each other and just install a symlink to their implementation each, everything should be clear. Or did I get something wrong? I am not sure. I had the idea of using diversions instead of symlinks to handle the /usr/bin/parallel command itself. But now I am not sure it's the right way to go. If we use symlinks, shouldn't we use the alternatives system? Then it would avoid making the two packages conflict with each other too... The problem with that, of course, is we then do not know which version we are using and have no way of enforcing that. So I guess your approach is better. I am not sure how to handle this otherwise. A. -- Either you're with us or you're with the terrorist state. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#749355: Bug#718816: Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
Dear Antoine, thanks for your good summary and your patience ... just to get it right, could you please check if I did get it right (the moreutils side): 1. Package 'moreutils' installs /usr/bin/mparallel and depends on package 'moreutils-parallel'; the latter installs a symlink /usr/bin/parallel - mparallel 'moreutils-parallel' conflicts 'parallel-gnu' and 'parallel = 20141022+ds1-1' 2. 'ikiwiki-hosting' is changed to use 'mparallel' or to depend on 'moreutils-parallel' and use '/usr/bin/parallel' 'ikiwiki-hosting' is changed to stop conflicting with parallel 3. Package 'moreutils' recommends (no more depends) on 'moreutils-parallel' It's my first time dealing with diversions so I hope I got this right. Any constructive modifications on the above checklists are welcome here! Right now, I can't see why we should use diversions: if moreutils-parallel and parallel-gnu conflict with each other and just install a symlink to their implementation each, everything should be clear. Or did I get something wrong? Thanks again and kind regards, Nicolas -- gpg key id: 55a0ce7f, epost: nicolas@(hjem.rpa.no|ip6.li) ↳ fpr: 18ed 52db e34f 860e e9fb c82b 7d97 0932 55a0 ce7f -- frykten for herren er opphav til kunnskap -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
On 2015-03-09 21:07:34, Antoine Beaupré wrote: On 2015-02-15 12:46:15, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 07:45:14PM -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote: Then we send this to the moreutils and gnu parallel maintainers to see if they would accept the fix, and we can simply NMU it. But the main problem, to restate what Joey has said here, is time: it takes time to do that work and unless someone steps up to help the maintainers patiently to clear things up, things will stay as they currently are. true, I am willing to give it a shot but we're probably far too late in the release cycle to get this into jessie (won't be wasted work anyway tho!) Indeed. So, any progress here? To make a quick recap here, i believe the strategy is as follows: 1. moreutils starts installing parallel as parallel.moreutils 2. gnu parallel starts installing parallel as parallel.gnu 3. moreutils creates a package named moreutils-parallel that will divert parallel.moreutils to parallel 4. gnu parallel creates a package named parallel-gnu (?) that will divert parallel.gnu to parallel 5. parallel-gnu and moreutils-parallel conflict with each other 6. ikiwiki-hosting is changed to stop conflicting with parallel 7. all packages depending (including ikiwiki-hosting) on moreutils or gnu (below, $package) are changed to either: * use the parallel.$package binary * depend on parallel-$package That way *even* a package like ikwiki-hosting depends on one or the other package, both binaries can actually be installed at the same time and behaving packages (ie. the ones that use the explicit binary like parallel.gnu) are not affected. (In the above, replace moreutils-parallel with parallel-tollef as you see fit. See also http://bikeshed.com/.) Of course, if two packages depend on the conflicting packages, we still have a problem, but I can't think of a solution for this. It's my first time dealing with diversions so I hope I got this right. Any constructive modifications on the above checklists are welcome here! A. -- A man is none the less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years. - Lysander Spooner -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#718816: Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
Sorry for the duplicate email, but I forgot to CC the other bug report (in moreutils, #718816, that I didn't realize existed) here, please followup on this one... On 2015-03-09 21:07:34, Antoine Beaupré wrote: On 2015-02-15 12:46:15, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 07:45:14PM -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote: Then we send this to the moreutils and gnu parallel maintainers to see if they would accept the fix, and we can simply NMU it. But the main problem, to restate what Joey has said here, is time: it takes time to do that work and unless someone steps up to help the maintainers patiently to clear things up, things will stay as they currently are. true, I am willing to give it a shot but we're probably far too late in the release cycle to get this into jessie (won't be wasted work anyway tho!) Indeed. So, any progress here? To make a quick recap here, i believe the strategy is as follows: 1. moreutils starts installing parallel as parallel.moreutils 2. gnu parallel starts installing parallel as parallel.gnu 3. moreutils creates a package named moreutils-parallel that will divert parallel.moreutils to parallel 4. gnu parallel creates a package named parallel-gnu (?) that will divert parallel.gnu to parallel 5. parallel-gnu and moreutils-parallel conflict with each other 6. ikiwiki-hosting is changed to stop conflicting with parallel 7. all packages depending (including ikiwiki-hosting) on moreutils or gnu (below, $package) are changed to either: * use the parallel.$package binary * depend on parallel-$package That way *even* a package like ikwiki-hosting depends on one or the other package, both binaries can actually be installed at the same time and behaving packages (ie. the ones that use the explicit binary like parallel.gnu) are not affected. (In the above, replace moreutils-parallel with parallel-tollef as you see fit. See also http://bikeshed.com/.) Of course, if two packages depend on the conflicting packages, we still have a problem, but I can't think of a solution for this. It's my first time dealing with diversions so I hope I got this right. Any constructive modifications on the above checklists are welcome here! A. -- The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
On 2015-02-15 12:46:15, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 07:45:14PM -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote: So I doubt we can coninve Joey to fix this problem the way we are proposing now, but it's possible. If someone wants to go forward here, there would need to be a set of patches that would create conflicting binary packages for both that will divert /usr/bin/parallel. A patch on ikiwiki-hosting to depend on moreutils-parallel would also then be necessary. Is dpkg-divert a strict requirement? Would alternatives suffices (e.g. like netcat does)? No, because the commandline interface is different and would break packages. Then we send this to the moreutils and gnu parallel maintainers to see if they would accept the fix, and we can simply NMU it. But the main problem, to restate what Joey has said here, is time: it takes time to do that work and unless someone steps up to help the maintainers patiently to clear things up, things will stay as they currently are. true, I am willing to give it a shot but we're probably far too late in the release cycle to get this into jessie (won't be wasted work anyway tho!) Indeed. A -- You Are What You Is - Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 07:45:14PM -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote: At this point, moreutils doesn't conflict with gnu parallel, and that is intentional. It is gnu parallel that conflicts with moreutils. I talked briefly with Joey about this. Obviously, it's a rather annoying issue for him, since the whole thing went as far as a CTTE bug (#665851). The result of that discussion were unclear: no decision was reached by the CTTE. From what I understand, joey doesn't want to be bothered with this. He barely has time to maintain moreutils at all and has critical opinion of gnu parallel, which breaks his ikiwiki-hosting package. Therefore, ikiwiki-hosting conflicts with gnu parallel. understood, thanks for the context! So I doubt we can coninve Joey to fix this problem the way we are proposing now, but it's possible. If someone wants to go forward here, there would need to be a set of patches that would create conflicting binary packages for both that will divert /usr/bin/parallel. A patch on ikiwiki-hosting to depend on moreutils-parallel would also then be necessary. Is dpkg-divert a strict requirement? Would alternatives suffices (e.g. like netcat does)? Then we send this to the moreutils and gnu parallel maintainers to see if they would accept the fix, and we can simply NMU it. But the main problem, to restate what Joey has said here, is time: it takes time to do that work and unless someone steps up to help the maintainers patiently to clear things up, things will stay as they currently are. true, I am willing to give it a shot but we're probably far too late in the release cycle to get this into jessie (won't be wasted work anyway tho!) filippo -- http://esaurito.net - 0x99D49B6B00CAD1E5 - ⠠⠵ God may not play dice with the universe, but something strange is going on with the prime numbers. -- Paul Erdos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
On 2014-09-26 20:51:18, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: hi, On Wed, Aug 06, 2014 at 01:30:04PM -0300, Rogério Brito wrote: But it seems no one objected to the solution of splitting it out in Debian at least, if the dependent packages are fixed. Yes, that would alleviate/solve the problem. definitely I can try to talk to people at debconf about this to see if I can unglue this mess directly. Unfortunately, I will not be at this debconf (even though I wanted to), but if you can talk with Joey, that would be great. do you know if discussion happened at debconf? just came across this on a jessie system and it is really a sad state right now :( At this point, moreutils doesn't conflict with gnu parallel, and that is intentional. It is gnu parallel that conflicts with moreutils. I talked briefly with Joey about this. Obviously, it's a rather annoying issue for him, since the whole thing went as far as a CTTE bug (#665851). The result of that discussion were unclear: no decision was reached by the CTTE. From what I understand, joey doesn't want to be bothered with this. He barely has time to maintain moreutils at all and has critical opinion of gnu parallel, which breaks his ikiwiki-hosting package. Therefore, ikiwiki-hosting conflicts with gnu parallel. So I doubt we can coninve Joey to fix this problem the way we are proposing now, but it's possible. If someone wants to go forward here, there would need to be a set of patches that would create conflicting binary packages for both that will divert /usr/bin/parallel. A patch on ikiwiki-hosting to depend on moreutils-parallel would also then be necessary. Then we send this to the moreutils and gnu parallel maintainers to see if they would accept the fix, and we can simply NMU it. But the main problem, to restate what Joey has said here, is time: it takes time to do that work and unless someone steps up to help the maintainers patiently to clear things up, things will stay as they currently are. A. -- Modern man has a kind of poverty of the spirit which stands in great contrast to his remarkable scientific and technological achievements. We've learned to walk in outer space and yet we haven't learned to walk to earth as brothers and sisters. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. pgpaPSu5j3kUV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
hi, On Wed, Aug 06, 2014 at 01:30:04PM -0300, Rogério Brito wrote: But it seems no one objected to the solution of splitting it out in Debian at least, if the dependent packages are fixed. Yes, that would alleviate/solve the problem. definitely I can try to talk to people at debconf about this to see if I can unglue this mess directly. Unfortunately, I will not be at this debconf (even though I wanted to), but if you can talk with Joey, that would be great. do you know if discussion happened at debconf? just came across this on a jessie system and it is really a sad state right now :( filippo -- http://esaurito.net - 0x001CDE6A6B79D401 - ⠠⠵ Those three things—autonomy, complexity, and a connection between effort and reward—are, most people agree, the three qualities that work has to have if it is to be satisfying. -- Malcolm Gladwell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 11:17:47AM +0200, Michele Orru` wrote: Rogério Brito rbr...@ime.usp.br writes: Given the state of the discussions at the time when I decided that the conflicts was the path of least resistance and that I am sincerely not sure how things have evolved, I would, yes, appreciate your help with the social side of things. Could you give us a pointer to that old discussion, or a summary of it? BTW, be warned that in current versions of parallel (which I have not yet packaged, but will soon) the compatibility option with moreutils was pending to be removed or is removed already, which would make things even harder. Wouldn't it be possible to let the user decide by himself via `update-alternatives`? That is actually the way things were working before the Conflicts was added. The discussion may converge as well on the default symlink, but at least one could use some moreutil's tools in pair with gnu parallel. I would also really appreciate that. For the record, no package depends on GNU parallel, and only one package (ikiwiki-hosting-web) has a hard Depends on moreutils. The other dependencies are Recommends: debci, git-notifiyer and Suggests: cacti, nagios-plugins-contrib, pkg-perl-tools. For example, consider the following use case: $ cat foo.txt | parallel ./bar.sh | sponge foo.txt Which is right now not possible in debian jessie. It's also impossible to use something like --pipe with moreutil's parallel, which is really annoying and confusing. A. -- The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater. - Frank Zappa signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
Actually, I found the original discussion here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=665851 It seems that one of the major issues is that moreutils ships parallel as an upstream, and splitting it out of there will create problems. But it seems no one objected to the solution of splitting it out in Debian at least, if the dependent packages are fixed. Personnally, i would be of the opinion that neither moreutils or parallel should ship /usr/bin/parallel by default to resolve the conflict, and then Debian package dependencies can be fixed. I can try to talk to people at debconf about this to see if I can unglue this mess directly. A. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
Hi.
On Aug 06 2014, anarcat wrote:
(...)
But it seems no one objected to the solution of splitting it out in
Debian at least, if the dependent packages are fixed.
Yes, that would alleviate/solve the problem.
I can try to talk to people at debconf about this to see if I can unglue
this mess directly.
Unfortunately, I will not be at this debconf (even though I wanted to), but
if you can talk with Joey, that would be great.
Regards,
--
Rogério Brito : rbrito@{ime.usp.br,gmail.com} : GPG key 4096R/BCFC
http://cynic.cc/blog/ : github.com/rbrito : profiles.google.com/rbrito
DebianQA: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=rbrito%40ime.usp.br
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Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
Rogério Brito rbr...@ime.usp.br writes: Given the state of the discussions at the time when I decided that the conflicts was the path of least resistance and that I am sincerely not sure how things have evolved, I would, yes, appreciate your help with the social side of things. BTW, be warned that in current versions of parallel (which I have not yet packaged, but will soon) the compatibility option with moreutils was pending to be removed or is removed already, which would make things even harder. Wouldn't it be possible to let the user decide by himself via `update-alternatives`? The discussion may converge as well on the default symlink, but at least one could use some moreutil's tools in pair with gnu parallel. For example, consider the following use case: $ cat foo.txt | parallel ./bar.sh | sponge foo.txt Which is right now not possible in debian jessie. -- m. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
Package: parallel Version: 20130922-1 Severity: important Dear Maintainer, at the moment, the package parallel/testing conflicts with moreutils/testing, as both are shipping the binary /usr/bin/parallel. There's no need for such conflict; in wheezy for example, moreutils' parallel is located in parallel.moreoutils. I'm dropping down here some fragments of the discussion I've had on #debian-next. Hope they might be useful for you. babilen moreutil's parallel should have just been replaced by the GNU version, but that discussion is *old* themill (in wheezy, parallel just diverts /usr/bin/parallel.moreutils) themill It would be appropriate to file a bug against parallel here -- there's no need for that conflict and I don't believe that policy permits ot If there's any way I could help fixing this, I would be glad to offer my help. -- System Information: Debian Release: jessie/sid APT prefers testing APT policy: (1024, 'testing') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 3.13-1-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_US.utf8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.utf8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Versions of packages parallel depends on: ii perl 5.18.2-4 ii perl-modules 5.18.2-4 parallel recommends no packages. parallel suggests no packages. -- no debconf information -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#749355: parallel: /usr/bin/parallel conflicts with moreutils' parallel
Dear Michele,
On May 26 2014, Michele Orru` wrote:
Dear Maintainer,
at the moment, the package parallel/testing conflicts with moreutils/testing,
as
both are shipping the binary /usr/bin/parallel. There's no need for such
conflict; in wheezy for example, moreutils' parallel is located in
parallel.moreoutils.
I'm dropping down here some fragments of the discussion I've had on
#debian-next. Hope they might be useful for you.
babilen moreutil's parallel should have just been replaced by the GNU
version,
but that discussion is *old*
themill (in wheezy, parallel just diverts /usr/bin/parallel.moreutils)
themill It would be appropriate to file a bug against parallel here --
there's no need for that conflict and I don't believe that policy
permits ot
If there's any way I could help fixing this, I would be glad to offer my
help.
Thank you for your help. The problems with GNU parallel vs moreutil's
parallel are indeed old as you know.
And these problems are not technical ones, but social ones, which I fixed
(actually, worked around) via conflicts clause.
Given the state of the discussions at the time when I decided that the
conflicts was the path of least resistance and that I am sincerely not sure
how things have evolved, I would, yes, appreciate your help with the social
side of things.
BTW, be warned that in current versions of parallel (which I have not yet
packaged, but will soon) the compatibility option with moreutils was pending
to be removed or is removed already, which would make things even harder.
Thanks for your interest and yes, I do appreciate help here.
--
Rogério Brito : rbrito@{ime.usp.br,gmail.com} : GPG key 4096R/BCFC
http://cynic.cc/blog/ : github.com/rbrito : profiles.google.com/rbrito
DebianQA: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=rbrito%40ime.usp.br
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