Bug#774361: how to play?
On 03.01.2015 21:20, Tomas Pospisek wrote: [...] Please do mention the README.lgeneral.gz file as that has a description of the controls. I did: Please also read README.lgeneral for further instructions on how to play the game. [...] I think the man page is fine because lgeneral really is only the engine. Again, as a user, I very like might not know that. I install the package, then type lgeneral on the command line. The game starts. And now what? So I either search for a README or I type man lgeneral. And that should give me the info that's necessary. According to Unix tradition all necessary should be contained in the man page. I don't think it is helpful if we repeat the same information over and over again. The man page should contain precise information about the engine's commands and it is not a replacement for other documentation. There are two README files under /usr/share/doc/lgeneral and after reading them everyone should now be able to play the game. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#774361: how to play?
tags 774361 - moreinfo + patch severity 774361 wishlist thanks Hello in the new year Markus, I've should have also read the accompanying README.lgeneral.gz, then I would have known. However I suggest to make it easier to users to just play. Imagine the following situation: It's christmas holidays and I'm bored. I fire up aptitude and install some games at random. Then I start them from the Applications menu. Once the game is started I think the user will intuitively start clicking around, not least around the menu. But unless he first selects a scenario *and then also a campaign*, he will not be able to play. I think ideally the game should give the users a hint what to do next. So upon loading the scenario, the text that is displayed should tell the user and now select a campaign from the menu. But all of this is material for upstream. What the Debian package could do is to make it easier for the Debian user. I think an advanced user will at least have a look at the README.Debian, and that's where you could give him/her the necessary hint. The same hint should also go into the manpage IMHO... So here's my proposed patch for Debian.README (the same should go into 'man lgeneral'). === --- README.Debian.orig 2015-01-03 14:04:00.515754439 +0100 +++ README.Debian 2015-01-03 14:06:36.755751024 +0100 @@ -7,6 +7,10 @@ the fun may vary. Playtesting, feedback and suggestions for improvements are most welcome. +To start a game, you need to go to the menu and first select a scenario and then +a campaign. Have a look at the provided README.lgeneral.gz, chapter 5. Interface +for instructions on how to play the game. + You can gather more information about LGeneral for Debian at http://wiki.debian.org/Games/LGeneral. === Thanks, *t On Thu, 1 Jan 2015, Markus Koschany wrote: Control: tags -1 moreinfo Hi and happy new year, On Thu, 01. Jan 15:13 Tomas Pospisek tpo_...@sourcepole.ch wrote: Package: lgeneral Version: 1.2.3+dfsg-3 Severity: normal How can I actually play the game? 1. I start lgeneral 2. I click C for campain, and select PG 3. a text explains what the aim is I click on that and the text disappears 4. I'm back to the map 5. what's the next step? - clicking anywhere doesn't seem to have any effect - right-click brings up the menu - any key-press on my keyboard doesn't seem to have any effect either - README.Debian does mention any controls, however it point to the LGeneral Debian Wiki - in the Debian Wiki there's no mention of controls either however it points to the LGeneral Web Page at SF - on the LGeneral Web Page there's no mentions of controls either 6. now what? That sounds more like a support request and not like a bug report. In short: You are supposed to click on S and start the scenarios except you own a copy of the original Panzer General game yourself. In the latter case you could then use game-data-packager to create a Debian package for the original campaign. I have explained this in README.Debian. The campaign is non-distributable for Debian despite the fact that the community claims Panzer General was abandonware and there is even a commercial game which reverse-engineered the PG engine but still I am not aware of a free license that would allow it. Let's start with the campaign (C) and the scenarios (S). If you install lgeneral, you can only play the free scenarios provided by the lgeneral-data package. You have to click on (S) and choose one of the WWI scenarios from the kukgen directory. You can always bring up the menu by right-clicking. After you have selected a scenario, the game will start with the selected map. The rest is moving your units around and attack other units. Pretty standard turn-based strategy. I wonder how I am supposed to fix this bug. More information are appreciated. Regards, Markus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#774361: how to play?
Hi Tomas, On 03.01.2015 14:22, Tomas Pospisek wrote: tags 774361 - moreinfo + patch severity 774361 wishlist thanks Hello in the new year Markus, I've should have also read the accompanying README.lgeneral.gz, then I would have known. However I suggest to make it easier to users to just play. I have just improved README.Debian. You can find the new version at http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-games/lgeneral.git/tree/debian/README.Debian I hope this new version incorporates your suggestions and makes it now generally intelligible how to start and play a game. Imagine the following situation: It's christmas holidays and I'm bored. I fire up aptitude and install some games at random. Then I start them from the Applications menu. Once the game is started I think the user will intuitively start clicking around, not least around the menu. But unless he first selects a scenario *and then also a campaign*, he will not be able to play. This is not correct. You can play the game by selecting a single scenario. A campaign is merely a sequence of scenarios accompanied by a short briefing screen. A campaign is not mandatory to play the game. I think ideally the game should give the users a hint what to do next. So upon loading the scenario, the text that is displayed should tell the user and now select a campaign from the menu. But all of this is material for upstream. I agree that the game could be a lot more user friendly. However one must understand what LGeneral always was, a game engine without free data. I believe this is already well explained in README.lgeneral but I did emphasize this in README.Debian too. For playing the original, non-free, Panzer General campaign, the user has to take additional steps. What the Debian package could do is to make it easier for the Debian user. I think an advanced user will at least have a look at the README.Debian, and that's where you could give him/her the necessary hint. The same hint should also go into the manpage IMHO... The Debian package already goes far beyond what upstream provides. You can install lgeneral and you will also get additional free WWI scenarios + a very convenient way to install the original PG campaign by using game-data-packager. game-data-packager lgeneral -w I think the man page is fine because lgeneral really is only the engine. I think a pop-up warning would be nice, if you click on the PG campaign but didn't install the data prior to that. This is something for upstream and I gladly forward patches to him. If there are no further objections, I will fix this issue with the next scheduled upload of LGeneral. Regards, Markus signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#774361: how to play?
Hello Markus, On Sat, 3 Jan 2015, Markus Koschany wrote: Hi Tomas, On 03.01.2015 14:22, Tomas Pospisek wrote: tags 774361 - moreinfo + patch severity 774361 wishlist thanks Hello in the new year Markus, I've should have also read the accompanying README.lgeneral.gz, then I would have known. However I suggest to make it easier to users to just play. I have just improved README.Debian. You can find the new version at http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-games/lgeneral.git/tree/debian/README.Debian I hope this new version incorporates your suggestions and makes it now generally intelligible how to start and play a game. Please do mention the README.lgeneral.gz file as that has a description of the controls. To illustrate this point: when I select the first available campaign - Albania - there is no field I can click on where I could /do/ something. Some of the fields display some additional data, since they contain some infrastructure, but no action is available. So giving the user quick access to how he's supposed to play the game would make the package much more user friendly. Imagine the following situation: It's christmas holidays and I'm bored. I fire up aptitude and install some games at random. Then I start them from the Applications menu. Once the game is started I think the user will intuitively start clicking around, not least around the menu. But unless he first selects a scenario *and then also a campaign*, he will not be able to play. This is not correct. You can play the game by selecting a single scenario. A campaign is merely a sequence of scenarios accompanied by a short briefing screen. A campaign is not mandatory to play the game. You're right. I think ideally the game should give the users a hint what to do next. So upon loading the scenario, the text that is displayed should tell the user and now select a campaign from the menu. But all of this is material for upstream. I agree that the game could be a lot more user friendly. However one must understand what LGeneral always was, a game engine without free data. I believe this is already well explained in README.lgeneral but I did emphasize this in README.Debian too. For playing the original, non-free, Panzer General campaign, the user has to take additional steps. Sure. However the point I was trying to make above in the imagine the following situation is that the Debian user that is starting the game might do so, just because he wants to play some game and installed yours because it's installable and not because he's coming from or has knowledge of the original game. I understand what you are saying, but it might not describe the situation of the person running your game. What the Debian package could do is to make it easier for the Debian user. I think an advanced user will at least have a look at the README.Debian, and that's where you could give him/her the necessary hint. The same hint should also go into the manpage IMHO... The Debian package already goes far beyond what upstream provides. You can install lgeneral and you will also get additional free WWI scenarios + a very convenient way to install the original PG campaign by using game-data-packager. game-data-packager lgeneral -w I think the man page is fine because lgeneral really is only the engine. Again, as a user, I very like might not know that. I install the package, then type lgeneral on the command line. The game starts. And now what? So I either search for a README or I type man lgeneral. And that should give me the info that's necessary. According to Unix tradition all necessary should be contained in the man page. I think a pop-up warning would be nice, if you click on the PG campaign but didn't install the data prior to that. This is something for upstream and I gladly forward patches to him. If there are no further objections, I will fix this issue with the next scheduled upload of LGeneral. Thanks for the changes you did. Please - if I may ask - consider the arguments I brought up above. Danke! *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#774361: how to play?
Package: lgeneral Version: 1.2.3+dfsg-3 Severity: normal How can I actually play the game? 1. I start lgeneral 2. I click C for campain, and select PG 3. a text explains what the aim is I click on that and the text disappears 4. I'm back to the map 5. what's the next step? - clicking anywhere doesn't seem to have any effect - right-click brings up the menu - any key-press on my keyboard doesn't seem to have any effect either - README.Debian does mention any controls, however it point to the LGeneral Debian Wiki - in the Debian Wiki there's no mention of controls either however it points to the LGeneral Web Page at SF - on the LGeneral Web Page there's no mentions of controls either 6. now what? Thanks, *t -- System Information: Debian Release: 8.0 APT prefers testing APT policy: (500, 'testing') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Foreign Architectures: i386 Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/8 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=de_CH.utf8, LC_CTYPE=de_CH.utf8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system) Versions of packages lgeneral depends on: ii lgc-pg 1.2.3+dfsg-3 ii lgeneral-data1.0-1 ii libc62.19-13 ii libsdl-mixer1.2 1.2.12-11+b1 ii libsdl1.2debian 1.2.15-10+b1 lgeneral recommends no packages. Versions of packages lgeneral suggests: pn game-data-packager none -- no debconf information -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#774361: how to play?
Control: tags -1 moreinfo Hi and happy new year, On Thu, 01. Jan 15:13 Tomas Pospisek tpo_...@sourcepole.ch wrote: Package: lgeneral Version: 1.2.3+dfsg-3 Severity: normal How can I actually play the game? 1. I start lgeneral 2. I click C for campain, and select PG 3. a text explains what the aim is I click on that and the text disappears 4. I'm back to the map 5. what's the next step? - clicking anywhere doesn't seem to have any effect - right-click brings up the menu - any key-press on my keyboard doesn't seem to have any effect either - README.Debian does mention any controls, however it point to the LGeneral Debian Wiki - in the Debian Wiki there's no mention of controls either however it points to the LGeneral Web Page at SF - on the LGeneral Web Page there's no mentions of controls either 6. now what? That sounds more like a support request and not like a bug report. In short: You are supposed to click on S and start the scenarios except you own a copy of the original Panzer General game yourself. In the latter case you could then use game-data-packager to create a Debian package for the original campaign. I have explained this in README.Debian. The campaign is non-distributable for Debian despite the fact that the community claims Panzer General was abandonware and there is even a commercial game which reverse-engineered the PG engine but still I am not aware of a free license that would allow it. Let's start with the campaign (C) and the scenarios (S). If you install lgeneral, you can only play the free scenarios provided by the lgeneral-data package. You have to click on (S) and choose one of the WWI scenarios from the kukgen directory. You can always bring up the menu by right-clicking. After you have selected a scenario, the game will start with the selected map. The rest is moving your units around and attack other units. Pretty standard turn-based strategy. I wonder how I am supposed to fix this bug. More information are appreciated. Regards, Markus signature.asc Description: Digital signature
