Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017, Andreas Metzler wrote:

> On 2017-07-13 Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Jul 2017, Marc Haber wrote:
> 
> >> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 08:47:56AM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> >>> I am talking about the report:
> >>> X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
> >>> entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam_report: ...T_ADDRESS@@
> >>> for details.  Content previ[...]
>  
> >> Just making sure, this is a report generated by Amavis on
> >> lists.debian.org, not on the bug reporter's exim, right?
> > No. Its generated by the spamd exim is calling. No amavis involved. It just
> > catches the broken header on arrival. 
> 
> What we are trying to point out is that exim does not add an
> "X-Amavis-Alert" header. Is your issue about a broken "X-Amavis-Alert"
> header or is it about an X-Spam_report that amavis does not like?
It is about Exim/Spamassassin adding non rfc conform headers. 

"No amavis involved. It just catches the broken header on arrival."

Please forget you ever heard amavis. 

Alex

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Andreas Metzler]

On 2017-07-13 Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2017, Marc Haber wrote:

>> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 08:47:56AM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
>>> I am talking about the report:
>>> X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
>>> entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam_report: ...T_ADDRESS@@
>>> for details.  Content previ[...]
 
>> Just making sure, this is a report generated by Amavis on
>> lists.debian.org, not on the bug reporter's exim, right?
> No. Its generated by the spamd exim is calling. No amavis involved. It just
> catches the broken header on arrival. 

What we are trying to point out is that exim does not add an
"X-Amavis-Alert" header. Is your issue about a broken "X-Amavis-Alert"
header or is it about an X-Spam_report that amavis does not like?

cu Andreas
-- 
`What a good friend you are to him, Dr. Maturin. His other friends are
so grateful to you.'
`I sew his ears on from time to time, sure'

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017, Marc Haber wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 08:47:56AM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > I am talking about the report:
> > X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
> > entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam_report: ...T_ADDRESS@@
> > for details.  Content previ[...]
> 
> Just making sure, this is a report generated by Amavis on
> lists.debian.org, not on the bug reporter's exim, right?
No. Its generated by the spamd exim is calling. No amavis involved. It just
catches the broken header on arrival. 

Alex

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Marc Haber]

On Sun, Jan 04, 2015 at 10:26:38AM +0100, Rainer Dorsch wrote:
> I am running exim since a few years and scanned incoming and outgoing mails 
> for spam, where outgoing does not make a lot of sense or even hurts. 
> I was surprised to find out that disabling scanning outgoing mails is so 
> simple.

It is, regrettable not so simple.

Since there is a gazillion of possibilities to integrate spam scanning,
how exactly did you do it? Can you give the entire relevant part of your
configuration?

> It would have helped me, if the default config would have had something like
> 
> root@netcup:~# diff -u 40_exim4-config_check_data.orig 
> 40_exim4-config_check_data
> --- 40_exim4-config_check_data.orig 2015-01-04 10:17:58.31600 +0100
> +++ 40_exim4-config_check_data  2015-01-04 10:20:34.48400 +0100
> @@ -54,6 +54,9 @@
>#
># See the exim docs and the exim wiki for more suitable examples.
>#
> +  # do not run spam scanning on authentificated mails (=outgoing mails)
> +  #   accept authenticated = *
> +  #

This will disable spam scanning for authenticated messages, not for
outgoign messages. Very different. For example, messages coming in from
a machine listed in dc_relay_nets would be scanned anyway.

What you want to do is non-trivial in the package since it needs
information about the entire site's configuration as soon as the site is
a non-trivial setup.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017, Marc Haber wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 08:47:56AM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > I am talking about the report:
> > X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
> > entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam_report: ...T_ADDRESS@@
> > for details.  Content previ[...]
> 
> If this very header is generated in a non-rfc-conforming way, then it
> would be up to amavis to generate it correctly. Not an exim issue.
> 
> The presence of an X-Header does not make the message rfc-uncompliant.
> 
> > This does not belong to outgoing mail.
> 
> The configuration in question is not part of the default configuration.
> Only the local admin can judge what constitutes "outgoing" in the site
> context.
> 
> I am not opposed to the patch in question, but alas, it doesn't help.
This is not about amavis. Amavis is not involved. This is about
40_exim4-config_check_data which uses SpamAssassin with spamd. 

Alex

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Marc Haber]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 08:47:56AM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> I am talking about the report:
> X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
> entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam_report: ...T_ADDRESS@@
> for details.  Content previ[...]

Just making sure, this is a report generated by Amavis on
lists.debian.org, not on the bug reporter's exim, right?

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Marc Haber]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 08:47:56AM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> I am talking about the report:
> X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
> entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam_report: ...T_ADDRESS@@
> for details.  Content previ[...]

If this very header is generated in a non-rfc-conforming way, then it
would be up to amavis to generate it correctly. Not an exim issue.

The presence of an X-Header does not make the message rfc-uncompliant.

> This does not belong to outgoing mail.

The configuration in question is not part of the default configuration.
Only the local admin can judge what constitutes "outgoing" in the site
context.

I am not opposed to the patch in question, but alas, it doesn't help.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017, Marc Haber wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:59:22PM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2015, Andreas Metzler wrote:
> > > On 2015-01-04 Rainer Dorsch  wrote:
> > > > Package: exim4
> > > > Version: 4.84-6
> > > > Severity: wishlist
> > > > Tags: patch
> > > 
> > > > Dear Maintainer,
> > > 
> > > > I am running exim since a few years and scanned incoming and
> > > > outgoing mails for spam, where outgoing does not make a lot of sense
> > > > or even hurts. 
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > I tend to disagree here. - Scanning outgoing mails to avoid spreading
> > > viruses sent by infectected users makes sense.
> > jftr, it dies hurt to add the spamassassin report to outgoing mails. Those
> > mails does are rfc2822 conform any more. Debian listserver will discard such
> > mails. SA Report should not get added to mail leaving the server.
> 
> In which point does the adding of X-Headers violate RFC822?
> 
> Additionally, the patch given in this bug report will not help in the
> case where a message is accepted by exim as a relay from a permitted IP
> range as it will only exempt authenticated mail.
> 
> So, the question is, how do we determine that a message is "outgoing"
> not from exim's point of view, but from the _site's_ point of view.
> 
> In addition, the headers in question seem to be added by Amavis, not by
> exim, right?
I am talking about the report:
X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam_report: ...T_ADDRESS@@
for details.  Content previ[...]

This does not belong to outgoing mail.

Alex

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Marc Haber]

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:59:22PM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Jan 2015, Andreas Metzler wrote:
> > On 2015-01-04 Rainer Dorsch  wrote:
> > > Package: exim4
> > > Version: 4.84-6
> > > Severity: wishlist
> > > Tags: patch
> > 
> > > Dear Maintainer,
> > 
> > > I am running exim since a few years and scanned incoming and
> > > outgoing mails for spam, where outgoing does not make a lot of sense
> > > or even hurts. 
> > [...]
> > 
> > I tend to disagree here. - Scanning outgoing mails to avoid spreading
> > viruses sent by infectected users makes sense.
> jftr, it dies hurt to add the spamassassin report to outgoing mails. Those
> mails does are rfc2822 conform any more. Debian listserver will discard such
> mails. SA Report should not get added to mail leaving the server.

In which point does the adding of X-Headers violate RFC822?

Additionally, the patch given in this bug report will not help in the
case where a message is accepted by exim as a relay from a permitted IP
range as it will only exempt authenticated mail.

So, the question is, how do we determine that a message is "outgoing"
not from exim's point of view, but from the _site's_ point of view.

In addition, the headers in question seem to be added by Amavis, not by
exim, right?

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Hendrik Tews]

Hi,

could you please include this patch or something similar? I also
followed the suggestion in the Debian exim config files and, as a
result, produced non-conform messages that were discarded by some
other servers.

Note that the Debian exim wiki contains the same wrong advice.

Thanks,

Hendrik

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015, Andreas Metzler wrote:

> On 2015-01-04 Rainer Dorsch  wrote:
> > Package: exim4
> > Version: 4.84-6
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Tags: patch
> 
> > Dear Maintainer,
> 
> > I am running exim since a few years and scanned incoming and
> > outgoing mails for spam, where outgoing does not make a lot of sense
> > or even hurts. 
> [...]
> 
> I tend to disagree here. - Scanning outgoing mails to avoid spreading
> viruses sent by infectected users makes sense.
jftr, it dies hurt to add the spamassassin report to outgoing mails. Those
mails does are rfc2822 conform any more. Debian listserver will discard such
mails. SA Report should not get added to mail leaving the server.

Alex - with its listmaster hat on

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Rainer Dorsch]

Hi Andreas,

On Sunday 04 January 2015 12:39:46 Andreas Metzler wrote:
 On 2015-01-04 Rainer Dorsch m...@bokomoko.de wrote:
  Package: exim4
  Version: 4.84-6
  Severity: wishlist
  Tags: patch
  
  Dear Maintainer,
  
  I am running exim since a few years and scanned incoming and
  outgoing mails for spam, where outgoing does not make a lot of sense
  or even hurts.
 
 [...]
 
 I tend to disagree here. - Scanning outgoing mails to avoid spreading
 viruses sent by infectected users makes sense.

Scanning does not hurt, but having the X-Spam-Report line 

X-Spam_report: $spam_report

in outgoing mails made the Debian mailserver classifying my mail to a Debian 
mailing 
list as spam:

Jan  3 21:34:21 s_local@bendel amavis[17115]: (17115-41) Passed BAD-HEADER-4
{RelayedInbound,Quarantined}, pb_en-ht [79.209.215.172] m...@bokomoko.de[1] -

lists-debian-...@bendel.debian.org[2], quarantine: m/badh-m89awh4uBlcw,
Message-ID: 2158424.WclWlOo0ND@blackbox, mail_id: m89awh4uBlcw, Hits: -7.1,
size: 3331, queued_as: 0567AD2, Subject: outbox disappeared, From:
Rainer_Dorsch_m...@bokomoko.de[1], User-Agent:
KMail/4.14.1_(Linux/3.16.0-4-686-pae;_KDE/4.14.2;_i686;_;_), helo=, Tests:
[BAYES_00=-2,DKIM_SIGNED=0.1,DKIM_VALID=-0.1,DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1,LDO_WHITE
LIST=-5],
autolearn=ham, autolearnscore=-5.1, languages=en, 6518 ms 
X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up
entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam-Report: ...that system
for details.\n \n Content previ[...] 

From postmas...@debian.org: Because its header is broken. X-Spam-Report really 
does not belong into outgoing mails.

Thanks,
Rainer

-- 
Rainer Dorsch
http://bokomoko.de/


[1] mailto:m...@bokomoko.de
[2] mailto:lists-debian-...@bendel.debian.org

Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Andreas Metzler]

On 2015-01-04 Rainer Dorsch m...@bokomoko.de wrote:
 Package: exim4
 Version: 4.84-6
 Severity: wishlist
 Tags: patch

 Dear Maintainer,

 I am running exim since a few years and scanned incoming and
 outgoing mails for spam, where outgoing does not make a lot of sense
 or even hurts. 
[...]

I tend to disagree here. - Scanning outgoing mails to avoid spreading
viruses sent by infectected users makes sense.

cu Andreas
-- 
`What a good friend you are to him, Dr. Maturin. His other friends are
so grateful to you.'
`I sew his ears on from time to time, sure'


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Bug#774553: exim4: Do not scan outgoing mail for spam

[Rainer Dorsch]

Package: exim4
Version: 4.84-6
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

Dear Maintainer,

I am running exim since a few years and scanned incoming and outgoing mails for 
spam, where outgoing does not make a lot of sense or even hurts. 
I was surprised to find out that disabling scanning outgoing mails is so simple.

It would have helped me, if the default config would have had something like

root@netcup:~# diff -u 40_exim4-config_check_data.orig 
40_exim4-config_check_data
--- 40_exim4-config_check_data.orig 2015-01-04 10:17:58.31600 +0100
+++ 40_exim4-config_check_data  2015-01-04 10:20:34.48400 +0100
@@ -54,6 +54,9 @@
   #
   # See the exim docs and the exim wiki for more suitable examples.
   #
+  # do not run spam scanning on authentificated mails (=outgoing mails)
+  #   accept authenticated = *
+  #
   # warn
   #   spam = Debian-exim:true
   #   add_header = X-Spam_score: $spam_score\n\
root@netcup:~# 

Thanks,
Rainer

-- Package-specific info:
Exim version 4.84 #2 built 21-Dec-2014 13:47:32
Copyright (c) University of Cambridge, 1995 - 2014
(c) The Exim Maintainers and contributors in ACKNOWLEDGMENTS file, 2007 - 2014
Berkeley DB: Berkeley DB 5.3.28: (September  9, 2013)
Support for: crypteq iconv() IPv6 PAM Perl Expand_dlfunc GnuTLS 
move_frozen_messages Content_Scanning DKIM Old_Demime PRDR OCSP
Lookups (built-in): lsearch wildlsearch nwildlsearch iplsearch cdb dbm dbmjz 
dbmnz dnsdb dsearch ldap ldapdn ldapm mysql nis nis0 passwd pgsql sqlite
Authenticators: cram_md5 cyrus_sasl dovecot plaintext spa
Routers: accept dnslookup ipliteral iplookup manualroute queryprogram redirect
Transports: appendfile/maildir/mailstore/mbx autoreply lmtp pipe smtp
Fixed never_users: 0
Size of off_t: 8
Configuration file is /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated
# /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
#
# Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
# yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
#
# Please note that this is _not_ a dpkg-conffile and that automatic changes
# to this file might happen. The code handling this will honor your local
# changes, so this is usually fine, but will break local schemes that mess
# around with multiple versions of the file.
#
# update-exim4.conf uses this file to determine variable values to generate
# exim configuration macros for the configuration file.
#
# Most settings found in here do have corresponding questions in the
# Debconf configuration, but not all of them.
#
# This is a Debian specific file

dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet'
dc_other_hostnames='netcup.bokomoko.de'
dc_local_interfaces=''
dc_readhost=''
dc_relay_domains=''
dc_minimaldns='false'
dc_relay_nets=''
dc_smarthost=''
CFILEMODE='644'
dc_use_split_config='true'
dc_hide_mailname=''
dc_mailname_in_oh='true'
dc_localdelivery='maildir_home'
mailname:netcup.bokomoko.de

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 8.0
  APT prefers testing-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'testing-updates'), (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages exim4 depends on:
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]  1.5.55
ii  exim4-base 4.84-6
ii  exim4-daemon-heavy 4.84-6

exim4 recommends no packages.

exim4 suggests no packages.

-- debconf information:
* exim4/drec:


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