Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Hi Ana, Quoting Ana Custura (2016-03-05 20:23:36) > Hi all, > > On 05/03/16 14:01, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > >>> Of course, the information can be rephrased and moved if one wants >>> to put less emphasis on it (for more emphasis elsewhere). For >>> instance, we could add something like "Debian Pure Blends are >>> developed, distributed and supported fully within Debian" at the end >>> of the current "first paragraph". >> >> That sounds like a nice improvement to me. > > With regards to the second paragraph that was removed, 'forks' is not > a concept most end users will be familiar with, Then how about "not deriving away from Debian" instead - is that a common and familiar concept/expression in english? > but the idea that blends are entirely contained within Debian is > important. I think that changes focus: Discussing whether the piece you hold in your hand and am interested in is contaminated or not is different from discussing how a lot of pieces (only a fraction of which you as a user have a direct interest in) are all uncontaminated. > I suggest we add a second paragraph: > > > "Debian Pure Blends are developed, distributed and supported fully > within Debian. Therefore, if you obtain a complete > Debian distribution, you have all available Debian Pure Blends > available for installation." > > How does this sound? To me that sounds less relevant for me - as a potential user of a blend: It talks about how all blends are in Debian, rather than (as the original text) each individual blend - e.g. the one specific blend I am interested in. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Hi all, On 05/03/16 14:01, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> Of course, the information can be rephrased and moved if one wants to put >> less >> emphasis on it (for more emphasis elsewhere). For instance, we could add >> something like "Debian Pure Blends are developed, distributed and supported >> fully within Debian" at the end of the current "first paragraph". > > That sounds like a nice improvement to me. With regards to the second paragraph that was removed, 'forks' is not a concept most end users will be familiar with, but the idea that blends are entirely contained within Debian is important. I suggest we add a second paragraph: "Debian Pure Blends are developed, distributed and supported fully within Debian. Therefore, if you obtain a complete Debian distribution, you have all available Debian Pure Blends available for installation." How does this sound? Ana
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Quoting Charles Plessy (2016-03-05 14:28:54) > Le Sat, Mar 05, 2016 at 03:12:36PM +0800, Paul Wise a écrit : >> On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Iain R. Learmonth wrote: >>> On 01/03/16 13:18, Charles Plessy wrote: By the way, I do not see the paragraph starting by "Debian Pure Blends are not forks from" in your proposal. Are you suggesting to remove it ? >>> >>> I don't think it's necessary to remove the second paragraph, it's >>> important to the concept of Pure Blends and is not covered in the >>> first paragraph. >> >> I explicitly wanted to remove that since this is a user-facing page >> not a developer one. > I think that it is valuable to inform users that Debian Pure Blends > are fully contained in Debian. Their experience with other > distribution may differ. I fully agree with above. If you find it unnecessary to mention that "detail", then perhaps consider instead not promote that concept at all, and instead promote the weaker concept "Debian Blends" which includes "sort-of almost Debian" systems as well. I would not recommend that, however. > Of course, the information can be rephrased and moved if one wants to put less > emphasis on it (for more emphasis elsewhere). For instance, we could add > something like "Debian Pure Blends are developed, distributed and supported > fully within Debian" at the end of the current "first paragraph". That sounds like a nice improvement to me. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Le Sat, Mar 05, 2016 at 03:12:36PM +0800, Paul Wise a écrit : > On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Iain R. Learmonth wrote: > > On 01/03/16 13:18, Charles Plessy wrote: > >> By the way, I do not see the paragraph starting by "Debian Pure Blends are > >> not > >> forks from" in your proposal. Are you suggesting to remove it ? > > > > I don't think it's necessary to remove the second paragraph, it's > > important to the concept of Pure Blends and is not covered in the first > > paragraph. > > I explicitly wanted to remove that since this is a user-facing page > not a developer one. Hi Paul, I think that it is valuable to inform users that Debian Pure Blends are fully contained in Debian. Their experience with other distribution may differ. For instance, I recently had to do some work on a CentOS system, where the workflow to install scientific packages is first to install the "epel-release" package, distributed by CentOS, which adds some entries in yum's equivalent of apt's sources list, that point to an extra repository where the scientific packages are available. Users who went through such experience before trying Debian may be interested to learn that Blends do not work the same. Of course, the information can be rephrased and moved if one wants to put less emphasis on it (for more emphasis elsewhere). For instance, we could add something like "Debian Pure Blends are developed, distributed and supported fully within Debian" at the end of the current "first paragraph". Have a nice week-end, Charles -- Charles Plessy Debian Med packaging team, http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Hi Paul, On 05/03/16 07:28, Paul Wise wrote: >> I've committed the first paragraph and the changes to the second one >> that were missed. I have removed the first paragraph that you added. I agree with Charles entirely. If you still feel that it doesn't make sense to jump into directly, then it needs further review from debian-l10n-english. The first paragraph should explain what Pure Blends are, the one you have given would perhaps be useful for a more extended description of blends that could perhaps live at /blends/about in the future. Ana is new to contributing to Debian and I would ask that you do not just commit over her commits, if you have any further changes you would like we can reopen the bug and discuss them. Thanks, Iain.
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Charles Plessy wrote: > maybe I am too much of a scientist, but I prefer when the first paragraph > directly answers to the question "what is this ?". I tend to lose interest or > focus when reading narratives such as the first paragraph you propose below. The second paragraph doesn't make much sense to jump right into without the first paragraph there to introduce it. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Paul Wise wrote: > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Charles Plessy wrote: > >> maybe I am too much of a scientist, but I prefer when the first paragraph >> directly answers to the question "what is this ?". I tend to lose interest >> or >> focus when reading narratives such as the first paragraph you propose below. > > The second paragraph doesn't make much sense to jump right into > without the first paragraph there to introduce it. I've committed the first paragraph and the changes to the second one that were missed. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Paul Wise wrote: > I've committed the first paragraph and the changes to the second one > that were missed. The overall diff: https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/blends/index.wml?r1=1.25=1.22 -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Hi Paul, On 05/03/16 07:12, Paul Wise wrote: >> > I don't think it's necessary to remove the second paragraph, it's >> > important to the concept of Pure Blends and is not covered in the first >> > paragraph. Ok, I'll remove that paragraph as well. Ana
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Iain R. Learmonth wrote: > On 01/03/16 13:18, Charles Plessy wrote: >> By the way, I do not see the paragraph starting by "Debian Pure Blends are >> not >> forks from" in your proposal. Are you suggesting to remove it ? > > I don't think it's necessary to remove the second paragraph, it's > important to the concept of Pure Blends and is not covered in the first > paragraph. I explicitly wanted to remove that since this is a user-facing page not a developer one. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Control: owner -1 ! Hi all, On 05/03/16 05:02, Iain R. Learmonth wrote: > Ana (in CC) has been doing some work on the blends website. I will let > her make this change in the webwml repository so she can get some > exposure to the BTS. I'm looking at this now :) Ana
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Hi All, On 01/03/16 13:18, Charles Plessy wrote: > This said, the paragraph below (or the alternative versions discussed in this > thread) would be a nice improvement to the current page. Thank you for > proposing this. > >> >> Debian Pure Blends are a solution for groups of people with specific needs. >> Not only do they provide handy collections (meta-packages) of specific >> packages, >> but they also ease installation and configuration for the intended purpose. >> They cover the interests of different groups of people, who might be >> children, >> scientists, gamers, lawyers, medical staff, visually impaired people, etc. >> Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers >> for their target audience as easy as possible and to connect their audience >> with the people who write or package software for that audience. >> I quite like this to replace the first paragraph. > By the way, I do not see the paragraph starting by "Debian Pure Blends are not > forks from" in your proposal. Are you suggesting to remove it ? I don't think it's necessary to remove the second paragraph, it's important to the concept of Pure Blends and is not covered in the first paragraph. As the last message was on the 1st March, and this has been reviewed by debian-l10n-english, I guess we've reached consensus. Ana (in CC) has been doing some work on the blends website. I will let her make this change in the webwml repository so she can get some exposure to the BTS. Thanks, Iain.
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Le Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 03:31:08PM +0800, Paul Wise a écrit : > > I would like to change the current introduction to Debian Pure Blends > on the website to the following text. Hi Paul and everybody, maybe I am too much of a scientist, but I prefer when the first paragraph directly answers to the question "what is this ?". I tend to lose interest or focus when reading narratives such as the first paragraph you propose below. > > A general purpose operating system like Debian can be the perfect solution for > many different areas of life. > Whether you want Debian to work for you in the classroom, as a games machine, > or in the office, each area has its own unique needs and requires a > different subset of packages tailored in a different way. > This said, the paragraph below (or the alternative versions discussed in this thread) would be a nice improvement to the current page. Thank you for proposing this. > > Debian Pure Blends are a solution for groups of people with specific needs. > Not only do they provide handy collections (meta-packages) of specific > packages, > but they also ease installation and configuration for the intended purpose. > They cover the interests of different groups of people, who might be children, > scientists, gamers, lawyers, medical staff, visually impaired people, etc. > Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers > for their target audience as easy as possible and to connect their audience > with the people who write or package software for that audience. > By the way, I do not see the paragraph starting by "Debian Pure Blends are not forks from" in your proposal. Are you suggesting to remove it ? Have a nice day, -- Charles
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:39 AM, Justin B Rye wrote: > or (maybe better, maybe my critical faculties are just going numb): > >Their common goal is to simplify installation and administration of >computers for their target audience, and to connect that audience >with the people writing or packaging the software they use. I think I like this one best. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Paul Wise wrote: >> # >> # Debian Pure Blends are a solution for groups of people with specific needs. >> # Not only do they provide handy collections (meta-packages) of specific >> packages, >> # but they also ease installation and configuration for the intended purpose. >> # They cover the interests of different groups of people, who might be >> children, >> # scientists, gamers, lawyers, medical staff, visually impaired people, etc. >> # Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers >> # for their target audience as easy as possible and to connect their audience >> # with the people who write or package software for that audience. >> # >> >> It's all okay, but there is room for improvement in that last >> sentence. How about: >> >> Their common goal is to make computer installation and administration >> as easy as possible for their target audience, and to connect that audience >> with the people who write or package software. > > The changes there are: > > Ordering in the easy/target part of the first part of the sentence. Looks good > > their audience -> that audience. Looks good. > > Dropping "for that audience" from the end of the sentence. This is a > fairly crucial part of the sentence and much of the point of the > previous equivalent of this sentence. > > For reference, the original read like this: > > The common goal of those is to make 12 installation and administration > of computers for their target users as easy as 13 possible, and to > serve in the role as the missing link between software 14 developers > and users well. > > https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/blends/index.wml?revision=1.2=markup > > So, I would propose to modify your version to this: > > Their common goal is to make computer installation and administration > as easy as possible for their target audience, and to connect that audience > with the people who write or package software for it. > > I'm not sure "for it" conveys exactly the right emphasis but I'm not > sure how else to word it. The trouble is, we can't just keep repeating "audience", but "it" is the group people we're writing for, so (at least in en_GB) it would be more natural to say "them", and either way it's a rather weak ending. My first draft had "the people who write or package that software", but then I decided there wasn't no clear antecedent for that to refer back to. Wracking my brain... Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers for that interest group as easy as possible and to connect the people writing or packaging the software with their target audience. or Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers for that target audience as easy as possible and to provide a connection between that group and the people writing or packaging the software they use. or (maybe better, maybe my critical faculties are just going numb): Their common goal is to simplify installation and administration of computers for their target audience, and to connect that audience with the people writing or packaging the software they use. -- JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Paul Wise wrote: > The common goal of those is to make 12 installation and administration > of computers for their target users as easy as 13 possible, and to > serve in the role as the missing link between software 14 developers > and users well. And without the copy-pasted line numbers this time :( The common goal of those is to make installation and administration of computers for their target users as easy as possible, and to serve in the role as the missing link between software developers and users well. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
[Someone dropped -blends, re-added] On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 11:34 PM, Justin B Rye wrote: > Iain R. Learmonth wrote: >> Could someone take a look at the wording for this to ensure it's >> understandable >> by non-technical users and to ensure that it's easily translatable. >> >> Please keep the bug in CC, I'm not subscribed to debian-l10n-english. > > Quoting that proposed text: > # > # A general purpose operating system like Debian can be the perfect solution > for > # many different areas of life. > # Whether you want Debian to work for you in the classroom, as a games > machine, > # or in the office, each area has its own unique needs and requires a > # different subset of packages tailored in a different way. > # > # > # > # Debian Pure Blends are a solution for groups of people with specific needs. > # Not only do they provide handy collections (meta-packages) of specific > packages, > # but they also ease installation and configuration for the intended purpose. > # They cover the interests of different groups of people, who might be > children, > # scientists, gamers, lawyers, medical staff, visually impaired people, etc. > # Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers > # for their target audience as easy as possible and to connect their audience > # with the people who write or package software for that audience. > # > > It's all okay, but there is room for improvement in that last > sentence. How about: > > Their common goal is to make computer installation and administration > as easy as possible for their target audience, and to connect that audience > with the people who write or package software. The changes there are: Ordering in the easy/target part of the first part of the sentence. Looks good their audience -> that audience. Looks good. Dropping "for that audience" from the end of the sentence. This is a fairly crucial part of the sentence and much of the point of the previous equivalent of this sentence. For reference, the original read like this: The common goal of those is to make 12 installation and administration of computers for their target users as easy as 13 possible, and to serve in the role as the missing link between software 14 developers and users well. https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/blends/index.wml?revision=1.2=markup So, I would propose to modify your version to this: Their common goal is to make computer installation and administration as easy as possible for their target audience, and to connect that audience with the people who write or package software for it. I'm not sure "for it" conveys exactly the right emphasis but I'm not sure how else to word it. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Iain R. Learmonth wrote: > Could someone take a look at the wording for this to ensure it's > understandable > by non-technical users and to ensure that it's easily translatable. > > Please keep the bug in CC, I'm not subscribed to debian-l10n-english. Quoting that proposed text: # # A general purpose operating system like Debian can be the perfect solution for # many different areas of life. # Whether you want Debian to work for you in the classroom, as a games machine, # or in the office, each area has its own unique needs and requires a # different subset of packages tailored in a different way. # # # # Debian Pure Blends are a solution for groups of people with specific needs. # Not only do they provide handy collections (meta-packages) of specific packages, # but they also ease installation and configuration for the intended purpose. # They cover the interests of different groups of people, who might be children, # scientists, gamers, lawyers, medical staff, visually impaired people, etc. # Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers # for their target audience as easy as possible and to connect their audience # with the people who write or package software for that audience. # It's all okay, but there is room for improvement in that last sentence. How about: Their common goal is to make computer installation and administration as easy as possible for their target audience, and to connect that audience with the people who write or package software. -- JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Hi, Could someone take a look at the wording for this to ensure it's understandable by non-technical users and to ensure that it's easily translatable. Please keep the bug in CC, I'm not subscribed to debian-l10n-english. Thanks, Iain.
Bug#816159: www.debian.org: new introduction for blends page
Package: www.debian.org Severity: wishlist X-Debbugs-CC: debian-ble...@lists.debian.org, debian-l10n-engl...@lists.debian.org I would like to change the current introduction to Debian Pure Blends on the website to the following text. The new introduction is derived from the 'Learn More' section of an earlier version of the page. It tries to be suitable for non-technical folks who have not heard of Debian Pure Blends and avoids the word 'users' in favour of 'people'. I am fairly happy with it but I think the very last sentence is slightly awkward and could use some fixes by English experts. A general purpose operating system like Debian can be the perfect solution for many different areas of life. Whether you want Debian to work for you in the classroom, as a games machine, or in the office, each area has its own unique needs and requires a different subset of packages tailored in a different way. Debian Pure Blends are a solution for groups of people with specific needs. Not only do they provide handy collections (meta-packages) of specific packages, but they also ease installation and configuration for the intended purpose. They cover the interests of different groups of people, who might be children, scientists, gamers, lawyers, medical staff, visually impaired people, etc. Their common goal is to make installation and administration of computers for their target audience as easy as possible and to connect their audience with the people who write or package software for that audience. https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/blends/index.wml?revision=1.2=markup -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
