Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Ben Hutchings]

On Tue, 2016-04-19 at 21:52 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
[...]
> - bluetooth:  unknown, seems broken whether or not I'm a member of the group
[...]

The bluetooth group isn't used for device nodes (so far as I can see)
but in the bluez D-Bus policy (/etc/dbus-1/system.d/bluetooth.conf).
That also has an 'allow' rule for users currently logged in locally, so
again it's not necessary to add desktop users to the group.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Never attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by stupidity.


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Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Christian PERRIER]

Quoting Ben Hutchings (b...@decadent.org.uk):

> I don't know where you get this 'all possible use cases of the
> installer' from.  Adding the first user to device access groups only

.../...

Something like "not default installs" or "non default desktop
environments". Indeed, I have no precise idea, just somerthing along
"what would be the consequences of dropping these 'default groups' in
non default installs".

I'm all in for simplifying things and it"s very likely possible that
these things are just remains of the past, just as you own tests seem
to show.

> I've done a quick test of removing myself from the device access groups
> on a current GNOME desktop, with these results:
> 
> - audio:      redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/snd/*
> - cdrom:      redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/sr0
> - floppy:     unknown, but expect this to work like cdrom
> - video:      redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/video0
> - plugdev:    redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/bus/usb/002/006
> - netdev:     redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/rfkill
> - scanner:    redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/sg2
> - bluetooth:  unknown, seems broken whether or not I'm a member of the group
> 
> The other groups (dip, debian-tor, lpadmin, sudo) make more sense,
> though CUPS should probably be changed to treat sudo like lpadmin.


So, well, are there any objections to us dropping all the above
groups from the list of groups the first created user is added to?



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Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Ben Hutchings]

On Tue, 2016-04-19 at 11:24 +0300, asu wrote:
> 
> On 04/19/2016 07:07 AM, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> > 
> > Control: reassign -1 user-setup
> > 
> > Quoting Felipe Sateler (fsate...@debian.org):
> > > 
> > > Control: reassign -1 debian-installer
> > > 
> > > On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do 
> > > > not put
> > > > users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now 
> > > > alsa is
> > > > for power users and pulseaudio is on default.
> > > Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
> > > installer does, so I reassign there.
> > Adding the *first created* user to so-called "useful" groups is done
> > by user-setup.
> > 
> > We'll need a detaailed explanantion abou twhy this shouldn't be done
> > anymore, including all possible use cases of the installer.
> > 
> > 
> Just simple scenario i add asterisk user on group audio and asu user on 
> group audio result is bad
>   here is result of lsoff:
> root@marian1000:/home/asu# lsof /dev/snd/*
> COMMAND   PID USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,4  9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,3  9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   15u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   20u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   21u   CHR  116,3  0t0 9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   22u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   27u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   32u   CHR  116,4  0t0 9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
> 
> On my user asu pulseaudio have acces only on Dummy card .
> Second on my audio application audacious  set to use  output to alsa 
> (assumed that pulseaudio is down)
> same issue audacious take control of audio device and is no room for 
> pulseaudio.

I don't believe the audio group has anything to do with this.  As I
explained, users logging in locally get access to sound cards even if
they aren't in the audio group.

I think the problem you have is one of:

1. Your X session doesn't start PA automatically
2. ALSA hasn't been properly configured to make applications uses PA
   when available
3. The application is overriding the default.

in descending order of likelihood.

(The pulseaudio package sets the default by installing these
configuration files for ALSA:

    /usr/share/alsa/pulse-alsa.conf
    /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/pulse.conf

but those can be overridden elsewhere.)

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Usenet is essentially a HUGE group of people passing notes in class.
  - Rachel Kadel, `A Quick Guide to Newsgroup Etiquette'

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Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Ben Hutchings]

On Tue, 2016-04-19 at 06:07 +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> 
> 
> Control: reassign -1 user-setup
> 
> Quoting Felipe Sateler (fsate...@debian.org):
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Control: reassign -1 debian-installer
> > 
> > On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest
> > > to do not put
> > > users on audio group because cross interference with alsa
> > > programs, now alsa is
> > > for power users and pulseaudio is on default.
> > Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing
> > the
> > installer does, so I reassign there.
> Adding the *first created* user to so-called "useful" groups is done
> by user-setup.
> 
> We'll need a detaailed explanantion abou twhy this shouldn't be done
> anymore, including all possible use cases of the installer.

I don't know where you get this 'all possible use cases of the
installer' from.  Adding the first user to device access groups only
ever made sense for single-user desktop/mobile systems.  The installer
doesn't make device access work automagically for other local users of
multi-user desktop/mobile systems, nor does it do the right thing for
servers - where the first user is likely to be a remote admin (and
often one of a team of admins who shuld have the same privileges).

systemd installs udev rules (/lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules) that
add the 'uaccess' tag to many kinds of devices.  systemd-logind then
adds locally logged-in users to the ACLs for the corresponding device
nodes.  This makes all or most of the groups for local device access
redundant.

I've done a quick test of removing myself from the device access groups
on a current GNOME desktop, with these results:

- audio:      redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/snd/*
- cdrom:      redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/sr0
- floppy:     unknown, but expect this to work like cdrom
- video:      redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/video0
- plugdev:    redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/bus/usb/002/006
- netdev:     redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/rfkill
- scanner:    redundant, I'm on the ACL for /dev/sg2
- bluetooth:  unknown, seems broken whether or not I'm a member of the group

The other groups (dip, debian-tor, lpadmin, sudo) make more sense,
though CUPS should probably be changed to treat sudo like lpadmin.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Usenet is essentially a HUGE group of people passing notes in class.
  - Rachel Kadel, `A Quick Guide to Newsgroup Etiquette'


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Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[asu]

On 04/19/2016 07:48 PM, Christian PERRIER wrote:

Quoting asu (a...@marian1000.go.ro):

Just simple scenario i add asterisk user on group audio and asu user on
group audio result is bad
  here is result of lsoff:
root@marian1000:/home/asu# lsof /dev/snd/*
COMMAND   PID USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,4  9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,3  9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   15u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   20u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   21u   CHR  116,3  0t0 9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   22u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   27u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   32u   CHR  116,4  0t0 9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c

On my user asu pulseaudio have acces only on Dummy card .
Second on my audio application audacious  set to use  output to alsa
(assumed that pulseaudio is down)
same issue audacious take control of audio device and is no room for
pulseaudio.


So, what I understand is that this "audacious" thing shoulnd't take
control of the audio device, which it does because your user is member
of the audio group.

But, then, why launching audocious, then? That may sound like a silly
question, but, to my understanding, this is where the problem lies, am
I wrong?

No matter this is strange on default DEBIAN PERMIT all clients on sound 
device withtout exception. I ask on udev maintainer why?

Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Christian PERRIER]

Quoting asu (a...@marian1000.go.ro):
> Just simple scenario i add asterisk user on group audio and asu user on
> group audio result is bad
>  here is result of lsoff:
> root@marian1000:/home/asu# lsof /dev/snd/*
> COMMAND   PID USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,4  9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,3  9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   15u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   20u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   21u   CHR  116,3  0t0 9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   22u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   27u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
> pulseaudi 961 asterisk   32u   CHR  116,4  0t0 9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
> 
> On my user asu pulseaudio have acces only on Dummy card .
> Second on my audio application audacious  set to use  output to alsa
> (assumed that pulseaudio is down)
> same issue audacious take control of audio device and is no room for
> pulseaudio.
> 

So, what I understand is that this "audacious" thing shoulnd't take
control of the audio device, which it does because your user is member
of the audio group.

But, then, why launching audocious, then? That may sound like a silly
question, but, to my understanding, this is where the problem lies, am
I wrong?

-- 




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Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[asu]

On 04/19/2016 07:07 AM, Christian PERRIER wrote:

Control: reassign -1 user-setup

Quoting Felipe Sateler (fsate...@debian.org):

Control: reassign -1 debian-installer

On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:


Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do not put
users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now alsa is
for power users and pulseaudio is on default.

Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
installer does, so I reassign there.

Adding the *first created* user to so-called "useful" groups is done
by user-setup.

We'll need a detaailed explanantion abou twhy this shouldn't be done
anymore, including all possible use cases of the installer.


Just simple scenario i add asterisk user on group audio and asu user on 
group audio result is bad

 here is result of lsoff:
root@marian1000:/home/asu# lsof /dev/snd/*
COMMAND   PID USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,4  9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
pulseaudi 961 asterisk  memCHR  116,3  9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   15u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   20u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   21u   CHR  116,3  0t0 9688 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   22u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   27u   CHR  116,2  0t0 9684 /dev/snd/controlC0
pulseaudi 961 asterisk   32u   CHR  116,4  0t0 9689 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c

On my user asu pulseaudio have acces only on Dummy card .
Second on my audio application audacious  set to use  output to alsa 
(assumed that pulseaudio is down)
same issue audacious take control of audio device and is no room for 
pulseaudio.

Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Christian PERRIER]

Control: reassign -1 user-setup

Quoting Felipe Sateler (fsate...@debian.org):
> Control: reassign -1 debian-installer
> 
> On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:
> 
> > Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do not 
> > put
> > users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now 
> > alsa is
> > for power users and pulseaudio is on default.
> 
> Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
> installer does, so I reassign there.


Adding the *first created* user to so-called "useful" groups is done
by user-setup.

We'll need a detaailed explanantion abou twhy this shouldn't be done
anymore, including all possible use cases of the installer.




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Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[asu]

On 04/18/2016 09:01 PM, Felipe Sateler wrote:

On 18 April 2016 at 14:59, asu  wrote:


On 04/18/2016 07:36 PM, Felipe Sateler wrote:

Control: reassign -1 debian-installer

On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:


Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do
not put
users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now
alsa is
for power users and pulseaudio is on default.

Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
installer does, so I reassign there.



Pulseaudio  does not add users but can do erase all users from audio group.

We most certainly should not do that.

Not only on debian-installer  , on all applications which use separate 
users like asterisk, lightdm and so.

Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[asu]

On 04/18/2016 07:36 PM, Felipe Sateler wrote:

Control: reassign -1 debian-installer

On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:


Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do not put
users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now alsa is
for power users and pulseaudio is on default.

Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
installer does, so I reassign there.



Pulseaudio  does not add users but can do erase all users from audio group.

Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[asu]

On 04/18/2016 09:01 PM, Felipe Sateler wrote:

On 18 April 2016 at 14:59, asu  wrote:


On 04/18/2016 07:36 PM, Felipe Sateler wrote:

Control: reassign -1 debian-installer

On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:


Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do
not put
users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now
alsa is
for power users and pulseaudio is on default.

Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
installer does, so I reassign there.



Pulseaudio  does not add users but can do erase all users from audio group.

We most certainly should not do that.


But on setup process pulseaudio add user pulse on audio group.

Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Felipe Sateler]

On 18 April 2016 at 14:59, asu  wrote:
>
>
> On 04/18/2016 07:36 PM, Felipe Sateler wrote:
>>
>> Control: reassign -1 debian-installer
>>
>> On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:
>>
>>> Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do
>>> not put
>>> users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now
>>> alsa is
>>> for power users and pulseaudio is on default.
>>
>> Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
>> installer does, so I reassign there.
>>
>>
> Pulseaudio  does not add users but can do erase all users from audio group.

We most certainly should not do that.

-- 

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Felipe Sateler]

Control: reassign -1 debian-installer

On 18 April 2016 at 13:06, Corcodel Marian  wrote:

> Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do not put
> users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now alsa 
> is
> for power users and pulseaudio is on default.

Pulseaudio does not add the user to the audio group. I'm guessing the
installer does, so I reassign there.


-- 

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

Bug#821424: pulseaudio: Do not put normal users on group audio

[Corcodel Marian]

Package: pulseaudio
Version: 5.0-13
Severity: wishlist

Any way pulseaudio is default sound server on debian and suggest to do not put
users on audio group because cross interference with alsa programs, now alsa is
for power users and pulseaudio is on default.



-- Package-specific info:
File '/etc/default/pulseaudio' does not exist


-- System Information:
Debian Release: 8.4
  APT prefers stable-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages pulseaudio depends on:
ii  adduser   3.113+nmu3
ii  libasound21.0.28-1
ii  libasound2-plugins1.0.28-1+b1
ii  libc6 2.19-18+deb8u4
ii  libcap2   1:2.24-8
ii  libdbus-1-3   1.8.20-0+deb8u1
ii  libfftw3-single3  3.3.4-2
ii  libgcc1   1:4.9.2-10
ii  libice6   2:1.0.9-1+b1
ii  libltdl7  2.4.2-1.11
ii  liborc-0.4-0  1:0.4.22-1
ii  libpulse0 5.0-13
ii  libsamplerate00.1.8-8
ii  libsm62:1.2.2-1+b1
ii  libsndfile1   1.0.25-9.1+deb8u1
ii  libspeexdsp1  1.2~rc1.2-1
ii  libstdc++64.9.2-10
ii  libsystemd0   215-17+deb8u4
ii  libtdb1   1.3.1-1
ii  libudev1  215-17+deb8u4
ii  libwebrtc-audio-processing-0  0.1-3
ii  libx11-6  2:1.6.2-3
ii  libx11-xcb1   2:1.6.2-3
ii  libxcb1   1.10-3+b1
ii  libxtst6  2:1.2.2-1+b1
ii  lsb-base  4.1+Debian13+nmu1
ii  pulseaudio-utils  5.0-13
ii  udev  215-17+deb8u4

Versions of packages pulseaudio recommends:
ii  pulseaudio-module-x11  5.0-13
ii  rtkit  0.11-2

Versions of packages pulseaudio suggests:
pn  paman
pn  paprefs  
pn  pavucontrol  
pn  pavumeter

-- no debconf information
# This file is part of PulseAudio.
#
# PulseAudio is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU Lesser General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.
#
# PulseAudio is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
# WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
# General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU Lesser General Public License
# along with PulseAudio; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307
# USA.

## Configuration file for PulseAudio clients. See pulse-client.conf(5) for
## more information. Default values are commented out.  Use either ; or # for
## commenting.

; default-sink =
; default-source =
; default-server =
; default-dbus-server =

; autospawn = yes
; daemon-binary = /usr/bin/pulseaudio
; extra-arguments = --log-target=syslog

; cookie-file =

; enable-shm = yes
; shm-size-bytes = 0 # setting this 0 will use the system-default, usually 64 
MiB

; auto-connect-localhost = no
; auto-connect-display = no
# This file is part of PulseAudio.
#
# PulseAudio is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU Lesser General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.
#
# PulseAudio is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
# WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
# General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU Lesser General Public License
# along with PulseAudio; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307
# USA.

## Configuration file for the PulseAudio daemon. See pulse-daemon.conf(5) for
## more information. Default values are commented out.  Use either ; or # for
## commenting.

; daemonize = no
; fail = yes
; allow-module-loading = yes
; allow-exit = yes
; use-pid-file = yes
; system-instance = no
; local-server-type = user
; enable-shm = yes
; shm-size-bytes = 0 # setting this 0 will use the system-default, usually 64 
MiB
; lock-memory = no
; cpu-limit = no

; high-priority = yes
; nice-level = -11

; realtime-scheduling = yes
; realtime-priority = 5

; exit-idle-time = 20
; scache-idle-time = 20

; dl-search-path = (depends on architecture)

; load-default-script-file = yes
; default-script-file = /etc/pulse/default.pa

;