Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi Bruno, > I need to correct myself and unfortunately lower expectations: opensurge will > be a package newly introduced to Debian, so it has to successfully go through > the NEW queue [1] procedure which takes additional time. I.e., chances are low > Open Surge may make it into bullseye, we need to see how slow or fast things > will work out. My bad, I'm not used to upload to the NEW queue. Okay, at least we tried if it weren't for these license questions. :( But I am waiting for the upstream to launch OpenSurge. In case it takes too long, we leave it to Debian 12, unfortunately. > @Carlos: I further cleaned up packaging and documented lintian infos/warnings > + according overrides. To save disk space in the archive, I split opensurge > into a small architecture dependent package opensurge and an architecture > independent package opensurge-data. This should make ftpmasters' lives easier > for a smooth NEW queue transition. Please check the changes for any mistakes. Thanks Bruno, it will help me a lot. As soon as the upstream releases the new version. I will make these changes to the package. See you later! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Carlos Donizete Froes [a.k.a coringao] ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian Wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/coringao ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ GPG: 4096R/B638B780 ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀ 2157 630B D441 A775 BEFF D35F FA63 ADA6 B638 B780 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Am Dienstag, dem 05.01.2021 um 14:14 -0300 schrieb Alexandre Martins: > Hi, > > The source code will be compatible with the libraries that are > currently packaged in Debian. > > We are including in the new version a file that specifies, in a clear > and organized manner, the copyright information of the artwork > (authors, licenses): > > https://github.com/alemart/opensurge/blob/master/src/misc/copyright-artwork.csv > > A few files have been changed since the latest release (mostly music), > and a few more are expected to change in the coming days (mostly > music). However, most files remain the same. This csv file may thus > help you save some time. > > Hopefully with these contributions Open Surge 0.5.2.0 can make it for > bullseye. > > Alexandre Hi Alexandre, hi Carlos, I need to correct myself and unfortunately lower expectations: opensurge will be a package newly introduced to Debian, so it has to successfully go through the NEW queue [1] procedure which takes additional time. I.e., chances are low Open Surge may make it into bullseye, we need to see how slow or fast things will work out. My bad, I'm not used to upload to the NEW queue. @Carlos: I further cleaned up packaging and documented lintian infos/warnings + according overrides. To save disk space in the archive, I split opensurge into a small architecture dependent package opensurge and an architecture independent package opensurge-data. This should make ftpmasters' lives easier for a smooth NEW queue transition. Please check the changes for any mistakes. Cheers, Bruno [1] https://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi, The source code will be compatible with the libraries that are currently packaged in Debian. We are including in the new version a file that specifies, in a clear and organized manner, the copyright information of the artwork (authors, licenses): https://github.com/alemart/opensurge/blob/master/src/misc/copyright-artwork.csv A few files have been changed since the latest release (mostly music), and a few more are expected to change in the coming days (mostly music). However, most files remain the same. This csv file may thus help you save some time. Hopefully with these contributions Open Surge 0.5.2.0 can make it for bullseye. Alexandre Em ter., 5 de jan. de 2021 às 05:27, Bruno Kleinert escreveu: > > Hi Alexandre, > > excellent! > > Providing estimations is difficult, because everything in the Debian Games > Team happens in our spare time. For updating the currentl opensurge package, > the effort depends on checking and documenting copyright holders and licenses > of added or changed game data. > > With respect to the source code, dependencies are critical: If opensurge > requires later releases of its dependenceis than those currently packaged it > will be too late to update them after 12.1., because that's the date of > transition freeze. > > To sum things up: The smaller the difference between the releases, the less > effort it takes to get it integrated. > > Cheers, > Bruno > > Am Montag, dem 04.01.2021 um 23:48 -0300 schrieb Alexandre Martins: > > Thank you. Our upcoming release is expected to be available by the > > first week of February. > > > We're putting extra effort so that the game can be available in > > bullseye. How long does it take to review and upload the package once > > we release the new version? > > > Alexandre > > > Em dom., 3 de jan. de 2021 às 04:37, Bruno Kleinert > > escreveu: > > > > Am Freitag, dem 01.01.2021 um 23:52 -0300 schrieb Carlos Donizete Froes: > > > Hi, > > > > Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos > > > Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading > > > the package. > > > > Perfect, I will wait for the next release. I want to thank the upstream > > > Alexandre Martins for contacting us and clarifying our doubts. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Just for your information, 12th February is freeze of bullseye, see > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye > > > Cheers, > > Bruno > >
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi Alexandre, excellent! Providing estimations is difficult, because everything in the Debian Games Team happens in our spare time. For updating the currentl opensurge package, the effort depends on checking and documenting copyright holders and licenses of added or changed game data. With respect to the source code, dependencies are critical: If opensurge requires later releases of its dependenceis than those currently packaged it will be too late to update them after 12.1., because that's the date of transition freeze. To sum things up: The smaller the difference between the releases, the less effort it takes to get it integrated. Cheers, Bruno Am Montag, dem 04.01.2021 um 23:48 -0300 schrieb Alexandre Martins: > Thank you. Our upcoming release is expected to be available by the > first week of February. > > We're putting extra effort so that the game can be available in > bullseye. How long does it take to review and upload the package once > we release the new version? > > Alexandre > > Em dom., 3 de jan. de 2021 às 04:37, Bruno Kleinert > escreveu: > > > > > Am Freitag, dem 01.01.2021 um 23:52 -0300 schrieb Carlos Donizete Froes: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos > > > > Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading > > > > the package. > > > > > > Perfect, I will wait for the next release. I want to thank the upstream > > > > Alexandre Martins for contacting us and clarifying our doubts. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Just for your information, 12th February is freeze of bullseye, see > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye > > > > Cheers, > > Bruno signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Thank you. Our upcoming release is expected to be available by the first week of February. We're putting extra effort so that the game can be available in bullseye. How long does it take to review and upload the package once we release the new version? Alexandre Em dom., 3 de jan. de 2021 às 04:37, Bruno Kleinert escreveu: > > Am Freitag, dem 01.01.2021 um 23:52 -0300 schrieb Carlos Donizete Froes: > > Hi, > > > Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos > > Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading > > the package. > > > Perfect, I will wait for the next release. I want to thank the upstream > > Alexandre Martins for contacting us and clarifying our doubts. > > > Thanks! > > > > Just for your information, 12th February is freeze of bullseye, see > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye > > Cheers, > Bruno
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Am Freitag, dem 01.01.2021 um 23:52 -0300 schrieb Carlos Donizete Froes: > Hi, > > > Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos > > Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading > > the package. > > Perfect, I will wait for the next release. I want to thank the upstream > Alexandre Martins for contacting us and clarifying our doubts. > > Thanks! > Just for your information, 12th February is freeze of bullseye, see https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye Cheers, Bruno signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi, > Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos > Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading > the package. Perfect, I will wait for the next release. I want to thank the upstream Alexandre Martins for contacting us and clarifying our doubts. Thanks! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Carlos Donizete Froes [a.k.a coringao] ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian Wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/coringao ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ GPG: 4096R/B638B780 ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀ 2157 630B D441 A775 BEFF D35F FA63 ADA6 B638 B780 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alexandre Martins wrote: > By the way, Johan himself has uploaded that very same music to > opengameart.org, this time under the CC-BY-SA 3.0: > https://opengameart.org/content/theme-from-open-surge While it is unfortunately too late now, it would be nice if Johan had released the samples, notes and mixing information for this track, so that it could be changed in meaningful ways by other folks. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi Bruno, Thank you for your reply. By playing Johan's songs in our game, we are paying homage to an artist who has contributed greatly to our project. By the way, Johan himself has uploaded that very same music to opengameart.org, this time under the CC-BY-SA 3.0: https://opengameart.org/content/theme-from-open-surge Johan can no longer speak on this plane, but I can speak for him. Even though he said we could use his music under the public domain, I think it's more fair if we used it under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 instead. We begin to pick a license that requires attribution if his music is used elsewhere, as a way to honor his work. The copyright file of the Debian package could reflect that choice. Looking forward to seeing Open Surge in Debian, Alexandre Em qui., 31 de dez. de 2020 às 02:36, Bruno Kleinert escreveu: > > Hi Martin, > > Am Mittwoch, dem 30.12.2020 um 15:02 -0300 schrieb Alexandre Martins: > > Hi. Upstream here. > > > From what I've seen in Open Surge it seems this is another example of > upstream copying random files from the web and pretend to have the permission > to create derivate works from them and redistribute them > > > Let me clarify a few things. We never "copy random files from the > > web". The "copyright issue" you have raised is not valid. > > > Johan Brodd (aka jobromedia) has created the song Minds Wide Open > > (theme.ogg) for Open Surge. He joined our project years ago and > > contributed with his musical talent. > > > Free content is very important to our project and I talk to artists > > about it. I have talked to Johan about his music and he has agreed to > > release it under the public domain. Unfortunately, Johan passed away a > > few years back (we have even included a RIP in our credits screen). > > > While not directly related to musics/theme.ogg, in a forum thread > > dated from December 2011 I explain to Johan about free content and > > then he decides to release his files under the public domain: > > http://forum.opensurge2d.org/viewtopic.php?id=1114 > > > Regarding musics/theme.ogg specifically, I invite you to take a look > > at a screenshot of a private conversation between me and Johan, where > > he expresses gratitude for having that music included in the game: > > http://forum.opensurge2d.org/misc/jobro_theme.png He is a deceased man > > now, but he has made that music for Open Surge, and it's free. He > > cared and he has provided great free music to our project. The > > inference that our project "copies random files from the web and > > pretend to have permission" sounds disrespectful to me and to > > everybody who has contributed content. > > > Thanks for providing the links. From > https://forum.opensurge2d.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8700#p8700 "[…] I set all my > files to public domain now […]" is the crucial piece of information. I > consider it worthy to document that within the distribution of the game. > Other FLOSS distributions, e.g., fedora, also benefit from clear copyright > and license documentation. > > > Let me also clarify that our C source code is released under the > > GPLv3, but our artwork is mostly under the CC-BY 3.0. We also have a > > few files under the public domain and under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 (check > > our credits screen). In addition, we have a scripting system called > > SurgeScript inside the game; scripts written in SurgeScript (.ss > > files) are released under the MIT license. > > > We have never re-licensed any CC-BY-SA 3.0 content to the GPLv3. > > Artwork is not code. Years ago I read about a claimed incompatibility > > between the CC-BY-SA and the GPL, but I have learned since that this > > doesn't hold. My understanding is that they are compatible and can be > > mixed in a game. The popular SuperTux mixes CC-BY-SA artwork with GPL > > code, as can be seen in their README > > https://github.com/SuperTux/supertux > > > My apologies, the re-licensing was something I misunderstood from Carlos. For > a Debian package it's required to document all respective copyright holders > and respective licenses in file /usr/share/doc//copyright. > > That file's content must be carefully gathered and verified to avoid any > possibilities of copyright infringements or license violations by Debian as > we redistribute the work and must make sure to have the permission to do so. > That's why me and sure many other Debian Developers are keen on clear and > unambiguous copyright and licensing documentation of upstream work. > > To get an idea of what this file looks like, take a look at out > work-in-progess here: > https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/opensurge/-/blob/debian/master/debian/copyright > > Btw. in licenses/ there seems to be > https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode.txt missing for the > CC-BY-SA-3.0 licensed content. > > > I hope this sorts it out. If you find any issues, I'm open and willing > > to help. I too would like to see our project in Debian. What has been > > claimed, however, is a
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi Martin, Am Mittwoch, dem 30.12.2020 um 15:02 -0300 schrieb Alexandre Martins: > Hi. Upstream here. > > > From what I've seen in Open Surge it seems this is another example of > > upstream copying random files from the web and pretend to have the > > permission to create derivate works from them and redistribute them > > Let me clarify a few things. We never "copy random files from the > web". The "copyright issue" you have raised is not valid. > > Johan Brodd (aka jobromedia) has created the song Minds Wide Open > (theme.ogg) for Open Surge. He joined our project years ago and > contributed with his musical talent. > > Free content is very important to our project and I talk to artists > about it. I have talked to Johan about his music and he has agreed to > release it under the public domain. Unfortunately, Johan passed away a > few years back (we have even included a RIP in our credits screen). > > While not directly related to musics/theme.ogg, in a forum thread > dated from December 2011 I explain to Johan about free content and > then he decides to release his files under the public domain: > http://forum.opensurge2d.org/viewtopic.php?id=1114 > > Regarding musics/theme.ogg specifically, I invite you to take a look > at a screenshot of a private conversation between me and Johan, where > he expresses gratitude for having that music included in the game: > http://forum.opensurge2d.org/misc/jobro_theme.png He is a deceased man > now, but he has made that music for Open Surge, and it's free. He > cared and he has provided great free music to our project. The > inference that our project "copies random files from the web and > pretend to have permission" sounds disrespectful to me and to > everybody who has contributed content. Thanks for providing the links. From https://forum.opensurge2d.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8700#p8700 "[…] I set all my files to public domain now […]" is the crucial piece of information. I consider it worthy to document that within the distribution of the game. Other FLOSS distributions, e.g., fedora, also benefit from clear copyright and license documentation. > > Let me also clarify that our C source code is released under the > GPLv3, but our artwork is mostly under the CC-BY 3.0. We also have a > few files under the public domain and under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 (check > our credits screen). In addition, we have a scripting system called > SurgeScript inside the game; scripts written in SurgeScript (.ss > files) are released under the MIT license. > > We have never re-licensed any CC-BY-SA 3.0 content to the GPLv3. > Artwork is not code. Years ago I read about a claimed incompatibility > between the CC-BY-SA and the GPL, but I have learned since that this > doesn't hold. My understanding is that they are compatible and can be > mixed in a game. The popular SuperTux mixes CC-BY-SA artwork with GPL > code, as can be seen in their README > https://github.com/SuperTux/supertux My apologies, the re-licensing was something I misunderstood from Carlos. For a Debian package it's required to document all respective copyright holders and respective licenses in file /usr/share/doc//copyright. That file's content must be carefully gathered and verified to avoid any possibilities of copyright infringements or license violations by Debian as we redistribute the work and must make sure to have the permission to do so. That's why me and sure many other Debian Developers are keen on clear and unambiguous copyright and licensing documentation of upstream work. To get an idea of what this file looks like, take a look at out work- in-progess here: https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/opensurge/-/blob/debian/master/debian/copyright Btw. in licenses/ there seems to be https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode.txt missing for the CC-BY-SA-3.0 licensed content. > > I hope this sorts it out. If you find any issues, I'm open and willing > to help. I too would like to see our project in Debian. What has been > claimed, however, is a non-issue. I'm sensitive to re-licensing issues without permission. Two game projects come immediately to my mind where this was done. Thank you Martin, I appreciate upstream cooperation! I know this isn't obligatory. > > Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos > Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading > the package. > > Happy new year, > Alexandre Thank you, the same to you! Cheers, Bruno > > Em qua., 30 de dez. de 2020 às 11:07, Carlos Donizete Froes > escreveu: > > > > Mensagem encaminhada > > De: Bruno Kleinert > > Para: Carlos Donizete Froes > > Cc: Debian Games Team > > Assunto: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge' > > Data: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 09:22:38 +0100 > > > > Am Mittwoch, dem 30.12.2020 um 01:01 -0300 schrieb Carlos Donizete Froes: > > > > Hi Bruno, > > > > > > Unfortunately, I found a blocker from uploading the package: The licensing > > and > > >
Bug#943676: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi. Upstream here. > From what I've seen in Open Surge it seems this is another example of > upstream copying random files from the web and pretend to have the permission > to create derivate works from them and redistribute them Let me clarify a few things. We never "copy random files from the web". The "copyright issue" you have raised is not valid. Johan Brodd (aka jobromedia) has created the song Minds Wide Open (theme.ogg) for Open Surge. He joined our project years ago and contributed with his musical talent. Free content is very important to our project and I talk to artists about it. I have talked to Johan about his music and he has agreed to release it under the public domain. Unfortunately, Johan passed away a few years back (we have even included a RIP in our credits screen). While not directly related to musics/theme.ogg, in a forum thread dated from December 2011 I explain to Johan about free content and then he decides to release his files under the public domain: http://forum.opensurge2d.org/viewtopic.php?id=1114 Regarding musics/theme.ogg specifically, I invite you to take a look at a screenshot of a private conversation between me and Johan, where he expresses gratitude for having that music included in the game: http://forum.opensurge2d.org/misc/jobro_theme.png He is a deceased man now, but he has made that music for Open Surge, and it's free. He cared and he has provided great free music to our project. The inference that our project "copies random files from the web and pretend to have permission" sounds disrespectful to me and to everybody who has contributed content. Let me also clarify that our C source code is released under the GPLv3, but our artwork is mostly under the CC-BY 3.0. We also have a few files under the public domain and under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 (check our credits screen). In addition, we have a scripting system called SurgeScript inside the game; scripts written in SurgeScript (.ss files) are released under the MIT license. We have never re-licensed any CC-BY-SA 3.0 content to the GPLv3. Artwork is not code. Years ago I read about a claimed incompatibility between the CC-BY-SA and the GPL, but I have learned since that this doesn't hold. My understanding is that they are compatible and can be mixed in a game. The popular SuperTux mixes CC-BY-SA artwork with GPL code, as can be seen in their README https://github.com/SuperTux/supertux I hope this sorts it out. If you find any issues, I'm open and willing to help. I too would like to see our project in Debian. What has been claimed, however, is a non-issue. Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading the package. Happy new year, Alexandre Em qua., 30 de dez. de 2020 às 11:07, Carlos Donizete Froes escreveu: > > Mensagem encaminhada > De: Bruno Kleinert > Para: Carlos Donizete Froes > Cc: Debian Games Team > Assunto: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge' > Data: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 09:22:38 +0100 > > Am Mittwoch, dem 30.12.2020 um 01:01 -0300 schrieb Carlos Donizete Froes: > > Hi Bruno, > > > Unfortunately, I found a blocker from uploading the package: The licensing and > > copyright information of the game's data is missing in debian/copyright. I > > added debian/TODO to document that issue, i.e., there's still quite some work > > ahead to gather the respective copyright holders and licenses for data files. > > I picked random samples and it seems that some graphics files have that > > information in the image, while for the audio and music files copyright > > holders and license is mostly unclear. Please get in touch with upstream to > > get this sorted out! > > > Sorry, but I didn't understand what you need and what needs to be corrected to > > have all this work and mandatory part in the licenses, since the upstream > itself > > declares in the main project directory that the license is GPLv3. > > > If upstream includes a piece of work which has a license that forbids > re-licensing, e.g., images/hydra.png is CC-BY-SA-3.0, then upstream has no > permission to re-license it under GPL-3. I'm not a lawyer, but would expect > this could only work if upstream has a written exception permission by the > original author to re-license a piece of work. Since there is no permission > released with Open Surge, we cannot assume this permission exists. > > > Is it really necessary to ask upstream to add all licenses to files such as > > audio, music and images that it has created and that declares GPLv3? > > > Yes, because Debian must make sure it does not redistribute work that was > pirated by upstream. > > It seems there's even such an example in Open Surge: > > fuddl@flutschi:~/debian/opensurge/opensurge/musics$ ogginfo theme.ogg > Processing file "theme.ogg"... > […] > TITLE=Minds wide open > ARTIST=Johan Brodd > […] > > I searched the web for that song and found it on vimeo: >
