Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
Am 21.10.2021 21:05, schrieb Brian Potkin: Fortunately, not selecting it isn't of any consequence. A user gets what else is chosen. I don't consider it "fortunate", it is inconsistent that having that choice selected or not does not make a difference as long as any other choice is selected. And that having that choice selected but none of the others will indeed install one of the others. No, that is not the case. Selecting "Desktop Environment" only will have the effect of selecting the default desktop. This could be Xfce, which is not the first one in the list. Yes, right, that's on non-amd64/non-i386. That's even more confusing, that selecting the generic choice but not explicitly selecting any of the choices in the list will implicitly install the third choice in that list. - Fabian
Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
On Thu 21 Oct 2021 at 20:39:01 +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote: > Am Donnerstag, dem 21.10.2021 um 18:33 +0100 schrieb Brian Potkin: > > I think this is exactly the way it was designed. Whether the design > > is the best is what has been brought up in this report. > > The results are pretty surprising and unpredictable, though. Indeed. Many users, myself included, have stared at the choices and wondered what the first choice implies. "Default - Gnome" next to it might have helped. Fortunately, not selecting it isn't of any consequence. A user gets what else is chosen. > > There is the concept of "default desktop". At the present time it is > > Gnome. The first selection is for the default. The description for > > task-desktop says: > > You don't have a chance to read the description of the task-desktop > package during d-i. As Holger already stated, it must be made clear > that merely selecting "Desktop Environment" will have the same effect > as selecting the first one in the list, even if this has been > explicitly unselected. No, that is not the case. Selecting "Desktop Environment" only will have the effect of selecting the default desktop. This could be Xfce, which is not the first one in the list. Cheers, Brian.
Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Am Donnerstag, dem 21.10.2021 um 18:33 +0100 schrieb Brian Potkin: > I think this is exactly the way it was designed. Whether the design > is the best is what has been brought up in this report. The results are pretty surprising and unpredictable, though. > There is the concept of "default desktop". At the present time it is > Gnome. The first selection is for the default. The description for > task-desktop says: You don't have a chance to read the description of the task-desktop package during d-i. As Holger already stated, it must be made clear that merely selecting "Desktop Environment" will have the same effect as selecting the first one in the list, even if this has been explicitly unselected. - Fabian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEIsF2SKlSa4TfGRyWy+qOlwzNWd8FAmFxs8UACgkQy+qOlwzN Wd/z1RAA5qtuYcv/O7hbs51+GgxM+Rw7GfokPKH84b5UuYlNs7qrvIHl7tL7dGY2 n76iyX0SI3QEPHnm99w+KjUv5XzOuFSIJIzFsbuywZTN96VH9fkDKIS6qhWmyvYj djTdyPMhFqhDcnuC4ZMRsk/SKm1LCR2rj/GgNe3BlZKV81P04sKshVo+Z1IhiG8n HZjn/APxLc/fZm/OcUIeZ3i9ANpD3/A4Snwc7/BNRWg6uO845xXIuJRyPRPpOfQv 6SVlhxeQG5aPqMxMjbc1LFD9KSvQKX5CEQWR1NM9od7GPfs/aa1YO3BaPfvT90h+ Hi9jbVNX4/oBJJ4eFiEjaCOzC5/6GIern1HYvnRvwZC5Ex2N9DgD/oz71lRTUAxA JlSIRwL9ndoz2NSYISsV4d736jJ6EWtBHIk9+6y30D8KFzC3AsK3mmTroV7FuIA5 TsjeJvzgRrZWInudDPWqZsqXI4NOKbH2X7TPyQDLkoeKGky9LtS9Z6j8BMZraivO QCIzOelZ/tlCsnXs1ftcgpNktDIaSTqOpLgF5YOVfkvRZYHvtf7AiS4f1iMM24jN ooPWblioZGROAjxIR4/znjqWr4dVF8sv0aoSOeF6TgpxHrNBx2aWDHJYTd1u3s/F POpn4AzdzvZOiOpSf/Cusm/ubCVRNoVSXxZPwsb8gzHivzJ3y+I= =IFgM -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
Hi, Fabian Greffrath wrote (Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:25:35 +0200): > I just installed Debian stable in a virtual machine. When I was asked > during the installation process which "meta-packages" to install I > left "Desktop Environment" selected but explicitly deselected GNOME. I > expected to end up with a minimal graphical environment, e.g. X with > twm and xterm or similar. However, I was surprised to find out after > installation that indeed the entire GNOME desktop was installed albeit > me explicitly deselecting it during installation. Selecting "Desktop Environment", but not choose one of the displayed possiblities (like "GNOME", "KDE" and so on) is not the way, how this dialog was designed, I guess. If you want a graphical desktop, select "Desktop Environment" and one of the options under it; or if you dont't want a graphical UI, deselect all those options. There is no way in between of these two. This is not optimal of course, and there have been reports from people, who where irritated by the functionality of this dialog in the past as well. I could imagine a solution, where the checkbox in the first line "Desktop Environment" is not directly changeable at all, but gets automatically checked or unchecked, if the user selects one of the desktop environment options below (or does not check any of them). Or the first line having no checkbox at all would be even better. Don't know, if something like this is possible with debconf... Holger -- Holger Wansing PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508 3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076
Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
Holger Wansing writes: > Hi, > > Fabian Greffrath wrote (Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:25:35 +0200): >> I just installed Debian stable in a virtual machine. When I was asked >> during the installation process which "meta-packages" to install I >> left "Desktop Environment" selected but explicitly deselected GNOME. I >> expected to end up with a minimal graphical environment, e.g. X with >> twm and xterm or similar. However, I was surprised to find out after >> installation that indeed the entire GNOME desktop was installed albeit >> me explicitly deselecting it during installation. > > Selecting "Desktop Environment", but not choose one of the displayed > possiblities (like "GNOME", "KDE" and so on) is not the way, how this > dialog was designed, I guess. > > If you want a graphical desktop, select "Desktop Environment" and one of > the options under it; or if you dont't want a graphical UI, deselect all > those options. > There is no way in between of these two. The outcome is the same if one does any of: setting just "Desktop Environment"; setting just Gnome; or setting both of them at the same time. The reason being that setting just "Desktop Environment" results in you getting the default desktop, which currently happens to be Gnome. If there was a way of making "Desktop Environment" be a section heading instead, without it having a checkbox next to it, that would have been done, but AFAIK that is not currently possible with the way that the menu is assembled. Sadly, that's rather misleading. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY
Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
On Thu 21 Oct 2021 at 17:27:22 +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote: > Hi Holger, > > thanks for your reply! > > Am 21.10.2021 16:31, schrieb Holger Wansing: > > Selecting "Desktop Environment", but not choose one of the displayed > > possiblities (like "GNOME", "KDE" and so on) is not the way, how this > > dialog was designed, I guess. > > Yes, apparently. :/ I think this is exactly the way it was designed. Whether the design is the best is what has been brought up in this report. There is the concept of "default desktop". At the present time it is Gnome. The first selection is for the default. The description for task-desktop says: This task package is used to install the Debian desktop. Regards, Brian.
Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
Hi Holger, thanks for your reply! Am 21.10.2021 16:31, schrieb Holger Wansing: Selecting "Desktop Environment", but not choose one of the displayed possiblities (like "GNOME", "KDE" and so on) is not the way, how this dialog was designed, I guess. Yes, apparently. :/ I could imagine a solution, where the checkbox in the first line "Desktop Environment" is not directly changeable at all, but gets automatically checked or unchecked, if the user selects one of the desktop environment options below (or does not check any of them). Or the first line having no checkbox at all would be even better. Yes, one of these options would clearly help improve this experience. Thanks! Cheers, - Fabian
Bug#996955: task-desktop silently pulls in task-desktop-gnome via Recommends
Package: task-desktop Version: 3.68 Severity: normal Tags: d-i X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-b...@lists.debian.org Hi, I just installed Debian stable in a virtual machine. When I was asked during the installation process which "meta-packages" to install I left "Desktop Environment" selected but explicitly deselected GNOME. I expected to end up with a minimal graphical environment, e.g. X with twm and xterm or similar. However, I was surprised to find out after installation that indeed the entire GNOME desktop was installed albeit me explicitly deselecting it during installation. The reason seems to be that task-desktop Recommends a whole list of alternative desktop environments with task-desktop-gnome being the first on the list -- and since Recommends are installed by default and since the first of a list of alternatives is installed by default, this is how I ended up getting GNOME installed, although I didn't even want it. The outcome is the same as if I had left the GNOME checkbox selected, which is quite surpsising and unexpected to me. Please consider introducing an absolute bare minimum package to let task-desktop depend on (by means of Recommends) instead of falling back to GNOME. Thanks! Cheers, - Fabian -- System Information: Debian Release: bookworm/sid APT prefers testing APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable-debug'), (500, 'experimental'), (500, 'unstable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 5.14.0-2-amd64 (SMP w/8 CPU threads) Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE not set Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system) Versions of packages task-desktop depends on: ii desktop-base11.0.3 ii tasksel 3.68 ii xorg1:7.7+23 ii xserver-xorg-input-all 1:7.7+23 ii xserver-xorg-video-all 1:7.7+23 Versions of packages task-desktop recommends: ii alsa-utils 1.2.5.1-1 ii anacron 2.3-31+b1 ii avahi-daemon0.8-5 ii eject 2.37.2-1 ii firefox 93.0-1 ii fonts-symbola 2.60-1.1 ii iw 5.9-3 ii libnss-mdns 0.14.1-2 ii sudo1.9.5p2-3 ii task-gnome-desktop 3.68 ii xdg-utils 1.1.3-4.1 task-desktop suggests no packages. -- no debconf information
