Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
On 2014-12-02 15:31:39, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Jonas, would you mind taking over from here and upload https://libav.org/releases/libav-11.1.tar.xz to unstable? I don't mind doing the technical work of packaging, but prefer if someone else takes to dialogue with release team about freeze exception, as I don't have the stomach for that (no blame on the release team for that!). I also don't mind doing the additional technical work of cherry-picking only the fix for this bug and apply to 6:11-2 currently targeted Jessie. Which of those to do would probably need input from the person willing to do the negotiation with release team, however. So I await someone volunteering for that (and while waiting will prepare that new upstream release, and if noone have appeared before done release it targeted experimental). I'm currently preparing the upload to unstable and will follow up with the release team. Cheers -- Sebastian Ramacher signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Hi Sebastian, Quoting Sebastian Ramacher (2014-12-30 18:01:24) On 2014-12-02 15:31:39, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Jonas, would you mind taking over from here and upload https://libav.org/releases/libav-11.1.tar.xz to unstable? I don't mind doing the technical work of packaging, but prefer if someone else takes to dialogue with release team about freeze exception, as I don't have the stomach for that (no blame on the release team for that!). I also don't mind doing the additional technical work of cherry-picking only the fix for this bug and apply to 6:11-2 currently targeted Jessie. Which of those to do would probably need input from the person willing to do the negotiation with release team, however. So I await someone volunteering for that (and while waiting will prepare that new upstream release, and if noone have appeared before done release it targeted experimental). I'm currently preparing the upload to unstable and will follow up with the release team. Great! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: Bug#771191: Bug#771126: Bug#771191: Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Fabian Greffrath fab...@greffrath.com writes: Am Dienstag, den 02.12.2014, 23:29 +0100 schrieb Bastien ROUCARIES: And offencive (sexist) for 50% of the population the women... Now it's getting really ridiculous. Gosh, it's a picture of a woman! Er, no, it's not just a picture of a woman. It's a cropped Playboy centerfold. In other words, it's a porn shot (if one from the fairly artistic side of that spectrum) that's been cropped to remove the explicit sexual content. The image itself is one thing; the surrounding context of the image makes it a bit worse. Obviously, in terms of great problems facing the world, this isn't the worst. But having the standard test picture for image software be a porn image does send certain messages, and they're probably not messages that we (by which I mean the general software and tech industry as a whole) actually want to be sending. This is not a problem of Debian's creation, and we can't fix the world, but insofar as we can contribute to not sending those messages, I think that makes the world, and Debian, a better place. Thank you very much to Reinhard for doing the irritating and tedious work of starting to replace it. It feels like a distraction from other work and a thankless task, I know, but small things like this really do make people happier and help people in tiny ways. Software became a bit less off-putting, a bit less locked into a particular model of how genders are supposed to interact, and a tiny bit more welcoming. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#771126: Bug#771191: Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Quoting Fabian Greffrath (2014-12-03 08:56:41) Am Dienstag, den 02.12.2014, 23:29 +0100 schrieb Bastien ROUCARIES: And offencive (sexist) for 50% of the population the women... Now it's getting really ridiculous. Gosh, it's a picture of a woman! I disagree with you. Honestly, when you mentioned you'd replaced with a photo of your own, I got very curious and checked if you'd made a self-portrait posing similarly - looking over your shoulder and into the camera with an invitation in the eyes. You chose food. Had you done that (in an honest attempt, inspired by but without making fun on the original), your comment now would have more meaning to me. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: Bug#771191: Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2014-12-03 11:33:17) Quoting Fabian Greffrath (2014-12-03 08:56:41) Am Dienstag, den 02.12.2014, 23:29 +0100 schrieb Bastien ROUCARIES: And offencive (sexist) for 50% of the population the women... Now it's getting really ridiculous. Gosh, it's a picture of a woman! I disagree with you. Honestly, when you mentioned you'd replaced with a photo of your own, I got very curious and checked if you'd made a self-portrait posing similarly - looking over your shoulder and into the camera with an invitation in the eyes. You chose food. Had you done that (in an honest attempt, inspired by but without making fun on the original), your comment now would have more meaning to me. Whoops - sorry: I mixed up you and Reinhard. :-( - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Niels Thykier ni...@thykier.net wrote: Control: tags -1 -wheezy-ignore On 2014-11-27 23:23, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Quoting Niels Thykier (2014-11-27 22:14:25) [...] In prior similar bugreport https://bugs.debian.org/760171#10 - referenced from https://bugs.debian.org/771191#10 - distribution is documented as permitted only for research and education which I interpret as unacceptable for Debian. [...] - Jonas FTR, this whole business feel incredibly silly. lena.pnm has become the *de-facto* standard image for every CS student to do his graphics courses homework on, and is generally considered to public domain, even without proper documentation. The copyright holder is going to have a very hard time enforcing his right if he wanted to prevent distribution of the image, in particular the low-quality scan that is being used in the Libav source package. Also, even according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lenna.png#Licensing, the holder is not interested in that to begin with. - I mean, really, don't we have more important things to do? Nevertheless, lena.pnm lacks proper licensing and some argue it violates the DFSG, so I've taken the effort (and ridicule!) to replace lena.pnm upstream with a new image reference.pnm, which I have personally taken this summer and upon Jonas' suggestion provide it under the expat license. This required to update all test reference patterns, which took most of the effort and is basically not verifiable. Jonas, would you mind taking over from here and upload https://libav.org/releases/libav-11.1.tar.xz to unstable? Otherwise I can see if I can get to that this weekend. Regarding stable: I've backported this change back to release/0.8 upstream. In the past, the security team has accepted libav point releases in wheezy-security, and I trust that this is also an acceptable change. It will be part of the next upload to stable-security. (this may take some more weeks, as libav has been notified about a couple of more CVEs, which need to be tested, fixed and verified, which is incredibly laborsome to do correctly). Does this plan work for everyone? -- regards, Reinhard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Quoting Reinhard Tartler (2014-12-02 14:11:19) On 2014-11-27 23:23, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: In prior similar bugreport https://bugs.debian.org/760171#10 - referenced from https://bugs.debian.org/771191#10 - distribution is documented as permitted only for research and education which I interpret as unacceptable for Debian. FTR, this whole business feel incredibly silly. Welcome to the Real World: Some stuff is incredibly stupid, yet Real. lena.pnm has become the *de-facto* standard image for every CS student to do his graphics courses homework on, Proprietary operating systems, word processors and spreadsheet editors have become the *de-facto* standard e.g. for most public servants in the World. Incredibly silly as free (and technically superior) alternatives exist. But this bugreport is about DFSG... The copyright holder is going to have a very hard time enforcing his right if he wanted to prevent distribution of the image, DFSG is is about Debian respecting copyright and licensing (no matter if difficult for copyright holders to defend or enforce their rights). (perhaps you confuse copyright and licensing with trademarks or patents, in some cases considered irrelevant for Debian to care about) Jonas, would you mind taking over from here and upload https://libav.org/releases/libav-11.1.tar.xz to unstable? I don't mind doing the technical work of packaging, but prefer if someone else takes to dialogue with release team about freeze exception, as I don't have the stomach for that (no blame on the release team for that!). I also don't mind doing the additional technical work of cherry-picking only the fix for this bug and apply to 6:11-2 currently targeted Jessie. Which of those to do would probably need input from the person willing to do the negotiation with release team, however. So I await someone volunteering for that (and while waiting will prepare that new upstream release, and if noone have appeared before done release it targeted experimental). - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: Bug#771191: Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Le 2 déc. 2014 14:15, Reinhard Tartler siret...@gmail.com a écrit : On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Niels Thykier ni...@thykier.net wrote: Control: tags -1 -wheezy-ignore On 2014-11-27 23:23, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Quoting Niels Thykier (2014-11-27 22:14:25) [...] In prior similar bugreport https://bugs.debian.org/760171#10 - referenced from https://bugs.debian.org/771191#10 - distribution is documented as permitted only for research and education which I interpret as unacceptable for Debian. [...] - Jonas FTR, this whole business feel incredibly silly. lena.pnm has become the *de-facto* standard image for every CS student to do his graphics courses homework on, and is generally considered to public domain, And offencive (sexist) for 50% of the population the women... Bastien even without proper documentation. The copyright holder is going to have a very hard time enforcing his right if he wanted to prevent distribution of the image, in particular the low-quality scan that is being used in the Libav source package. Also, even according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lenna.png#Licensing, the holder is not interested in that to begin with. - I mean, really, don't we have more important things to do? Nevertheless, lena.pnm lacks proper licensing and some argue it violates the DFSG, so I've taken the effort (and ridicule!) to replace lena.pnm upstream with a new image reference.pnm, which I have personally taken this summer and upon Jonas' suggestion provide it under the expat license. This required to update all test reference patterns, which took most of the effort and is basically not verifiable. Jonas, would you mind taking over from here and upload https://libav.org/releases/libav-11.1.tar.xz to unstable? Otherwise I can see if I can get to that this weekend. Regarding stable: I've backported this change back to release/0.8 upstream. In the past, the security team has accepted libav point releases in wheezy-security, and I trust that this is also an acceptable change. It will be part of the next upload to stable-security. (this may take some more weeks, as libav has been notified about a couple of more CVEs, which need to be tested, fixed and verified, which is incredibly laborsome to do correctly). Does this plan work for everyone? -- regards, Reinhard
Bug#771126: Bug#771191: Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Am Dienstag, den 02.12.2014, 23:29 +0100 schrieb Bastien ROUCARIES: And offencive (sexist) for 50% of the population the women... Now it's getting really ridiculous. Gosh, it's a picture of a woman! - Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
control: tags -1 + wheezy-ignore control: retitle -1 libav/lena.pnm: non-DFSG free + not mentioned in copyright first of all, the file in question is libav-11/tests/lena.pnm second, as referred in the mail referred to by the original bugreport, please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lenna.png#Licensing According to that and also to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion/2011_November_4#File:Lenna.png it seems to me that this file is distributable under fair use policy, especially since it's a low-res thumbnail as well. (the wikipedia low-res image is 512x512, the image in libav is 256x245). Yet while it's distributable, it's also clearly not DFSG free and btw it's also not mentioned in debian/copyright at all. So for sid+jessie I recommend to drop this file. Also not least because Suggestive pictures used in lectures on image processing ... convey the message that the lecturer caters to the males only. For example, it is amazing that the Lena pin-up image is still used as an example in courses and published as a test image in journals today. as explained in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna (btw, regarding usage in test cases: I have to admit I don't understand how/if usage of this file as a test case is relevant in the Debian context. Explainations welcome...) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Quoting Holger Levsen (2014-11-27 11:25:05) control: tags -1 + wheezy-ignore Are you part of the release team? first of all, the file in question is libav-11/tests/lena.pnm No, path (inside the source) is tests/lena.pnm. second, as referred in the mail referred to by the original bugreport, please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lenna.png#Licensing Why read it again (sure you do not imply that I didn't read already)? [irrelevant details snipped] Yet while it's distributable, it's also clearly not DFSG free So your conclusion is same as mine. Why did you retitle? What was the purpose of your mail? Seems the only actual sensible action was ignoring for the next release. Please elaborate on your reasoning for that. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2014-11-27 12:15:13) Quoting Holger Levsen (2014-11-27 11:25:05) control: tags -1 + wheezy-ignore [...] Why did you retitle? What was the purpose of your mail? Seems the only actual sensible action was ignoring for the next release. Please elaborate on your reasoning for that. Correction: current stable release. Questions still stand: Why? - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
On Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: control: tags -1 + wheezy-ignore Are you part of the release team? No, but the release team is explicitly happy with *me* tagging stuff wheezy- ignore following guidelines discussed on debian-release. the conclusion there has been: (in stable) distributable stuff which is non- free or wrongly mentioned in debian/copyrights are serious bugs - but serious bugs which *can* be ignored. (and yeah, usually I cc: debian-release@l.d.o explicitly on such taggings, because it's the proper thing to do. as I also know that most if not all of the release team are subscribed to all RC bugs anyway, I sometimes forget this...) first of all, the file in question is libav-11/tests/lena.pnm No, path (inside the source) is tests/lena.pnm. you're so right, amazing! Questions still stand: Why? to save people from useless^w work. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
In order to address this, I've proposed to replace lena.pnm with a new image, taken by me, at https://github.com/libav/libav/pull/17 I don't really care about the licensing. Is the declaration in the commit message OK? How to declare that in debian/copyright? -- regards, Reinhard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Hi Reinhard, Quoting Reinhard Tartler (2014-11-27 18:35:05) In order to address this, I've proposed to replace lena.pnm with a new image, taken by me, at https://github.com/libav/libav/pull/17 Fun idea :-) I don't really care about the licensing. Is the declaration in the commit message OK? How to declare that in debian/copyright? I might get away with such custom set of licensing terms, but to ease processing (if not by lawyers in a later dispute then at least by fellow distro maintainers wanting to categorize, identify, verify etc.) it is recommended that you instead pick a common license. Preferrably one of those tracked by SPDX as listed at https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/#license-specification. Seems what you want is as liberal and as briefly expressed license as possible. A popular common license of that kind is Expat. ideally you refer to that license by its canonical URL http://www.jclark.com/xml/copying.txt but since you seem to seek as brief as possible expression, you could simply state e.g. Licensed under the Expat license. I am not a lawyer, just interested in licensing and pay attention to licensing patterns commonly expressed by upstreams of Debian and approved in Debian. YMMV. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Hi Reinhard, Quoting Reinhard Tartler (2014-11-27 18:35:05) In order to address this, I've proposed to replace lena.pnm with a new image, taken by me, at https://github.com/libav/libav/pull/17 Fun idea :-) I don't really care about the licensing. Is the declaration in the commit message OK? How to declare that in debian/copyright? I might get away with such custom set of licensing terms, but to ease processing (if not by lawyers in a later dispute then at least by fellow distro maintainers wanting to categorize, identify, verify etc.) it is recommended that you instead pick a common license. Preferrably one of those tracked by SPDX as listed at https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/#license-specification. Seems what you want is as liberal and as briefly expressed license as possible. A popular common license of that kind is Expat. ideally you refer to that license by its canonical URL http://www.jclark.com/xml/copying.txt but since you seem to seek as brief as possible expression, you could simply state e.g. Licensed under the Expat license. I am not a lawyer, just interested in licensing and pay attention to licensing patterns commonly expressed by upstreams of Debian and approved in Debian. YMMV. Sure, if you believe that the expat license is appropriate, I'd license it that way. Thanks for the feedback. Reinhard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
On 2014-11-27 12:46, Holger Levsen wrote: On Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: control: tags -1 + wheezy-ignore Are you part of the release team? No, but the release team is explicitly happy with *me* tagging stuff wheezy- ignore following guidelines discussed on debian-release. the conclusion there has been: (in stable) distributable stuff which is non- free or wrongly mentioned in debian/copyrights are serious bugs - but serious bugs which *can* be ignored. (and yeah, usually I cc: debian-release@l.d.o explicitly on such taggings, because it's the proper thing to do. as I also know that most if not all of the release team are subscribed to all RC bugs anyway, I sometimes forget this...) [...] Hi, FTR, I believe Holger is referring to [1]. At first glance, it seems to mostly apply to this particular case. I say mostly because it is not immediately clear to me that we got an exact license (combined with ... and there is *no doubt about the license* of the files [...] from [1], emphasis mine). That said, provided that we *are permitted* to distributable, I see no issue with the -ignore tag for Wheezy. Should it turn out that the files are in fact non-distributable, the -ignore tag will have to go and we would need a stable-update to fix it. ~Niels [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2014/03/msg00409.html signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Quoting Niels Thykier (2014-11-27 22:14:25) FTR, I believe Holger is referring to [1]. At first glance, it seems to mostly apply to this particular case. I say mostly because it is not immediately clear to me that we got an exact license (combined with ... and there is *no doubt about the license* of the files [...] from [1], emphasis mine). That said, provided that we *are permitted* to distributable, I see no issue with the -ignore tag for Wheezy. In prior similar bugreport https://bugs.debian.org/760171#10 - referenced from https://bugs.debian.org/771191#10 - distribution is documented as permitted only for research and education which I interpret as unacceptable for Debian. You might also want to read Holger's conclusion which contradicts the other stuff he extracted from the material I referenced. Sigh... - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
/me sings happy birthday to you and sighs. and q.e.d. too, FWIW, which is nothing. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Processed: Re: Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Processing control commands: tags -1 -wheezy-ignore Bug #771126 [src:libav] libav/lena.pnm: non-DFSG free + not mentioned in copyright Removed tag(s) wheezy-ignore. -- 771126: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=771126 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#771126: libav/tests/lena.pnm: also not mentioned in debian/copyright
Control: tags -1 -wheezy-ignore On 2014-11-27 23:23, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Quoting Niels Thykier (2014-11-27 22:14:25) [...] In prior similar bugreport https://bugs.debian.org/760171#10 - referenced from https://bugs.debian.org/771191#10 - distribution is documented as permitted only for research and education which I interpret as unacceptable for Debian. [...] - Jonas Ack, removing the -ignore tag then. That does not sound like something we can distribute as we also distribute to other uses. Once this have been resolved in unstable, please file both an unblock request for it and a p-u request for getting it fixed in stable. Please also be advised that snapshots.d.o may also be distributing copies of this file unknowingly. Please inform them of the affected versions, so they can remove them. ~Niels -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
