Bug#963327: [Pkg-zsh-devel] Processed: Merge duplicates
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 02:26:51PM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote: >... > > The majority of users are using the default of treating Recommends > > as dependencies, for them it doesn't make any difference whether > > Recommends or Depends is used. > > > > Not installing Recommends is supported, and desirable in many > > embedded/server/container scenarios. > > That's why bsdmainutils Recommends bsdextrautils and always has. The > only argument here is whether it should be a hard Depends instead. >... Yes. It only makes a difference when not installing Recommends by default, especially when upgrading from buster. bsdmainutils does depend on bsdutils. >... > > One could make the point that bsdmainutils should > > be a (transitional?) metapackage depending on all > > the tools it previously provided. > > That's my thinking, too. The remaining tools in bsdmainutils are ncal > (which should go into a separate package) and a few tools we could > switch to util-linux or remove. This would also make the Depends/Recommends question above obsolete. > Michael cu Adrian
Bug#963327: [Pkg-zsh-devel] Processed: Merge duplicates
> Build breakage out of the void is not nice, usually maintainers > inform > reverse build dependencies them before making such a breaking change. Yes, correct, and I'm sorry about this. It simply didn't occur to me that the change would create a build breakage. > The majority of users are using the default of treating Recommends > as dependencies, for them it doesn't make any difference whether > Recommends or Depends is used. > > Not installing Recommends is supported, and desirable in many > embedded/server/container scenarios. That's why bsdmainutils Recommends bsdextrautils and always has. The only argument here is whether it should be a hard Depends instead. > Installing bsdmainutils from unstable in buster breaks commands like > man ncal | cat > I would not be surprised if there is somewhere in Debian some package > that would do something like that for whatever good or bad reason in > a postinst or prerm. I didn't find any usage of man in a postinst on my system, but I have not checked all packages. > BTW: The naming of the packages is confusing. Agreed. > "extra" sounds like the more obscure utils, > enhanching the more commonly used "main" tools. > Looking at the tools shipped, the opposite seems to be true. Correct, this has to do with the old naming. The more obscure tools are still build out of the bsdmainutils sources. > One could make the point that bsdmainutils should > be a (transitional?) metapackage depending on all > the tools it previously provided. That's my thinking, too. The remaining tools in bsdmainutils are ncal (which should go into a separate package) and a few tools we could switch to util-linux or remove. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org) Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org Jabber: michael at xmpp dot meskes dot org VfL Borussia! Força Barça! SF 49ers! Use Debian GNU/Linux, PostgreSQL
Bug#963327: [Pkg-zsh-devel] Processed: Merge duplicates
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 02:03:10PM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote: > > I already updated the title of the mass-merged bug to > > "bsdmainutils must depend on bsdextrautils". > > > > This is anyway mandatory for not breaking upgrades from buster. > > Would you care to elaborate? I didn't find anything that mandates a dependency > over a recommendation. It is common practice to have dependencies for one Debian release, to ensure noone loses during an upgrade what was moved elsewhere. > Yes, it does break build dependencies but imo they should > be changed anyway. Build breakage out of the void is not nice, usually maintainers inform reverse build dependencies them before making such a breaking change. The same is true for runtime dependencies, where breakage can be much more user-visible. Worst are breakages it might cause for users upgrading from buster to bullseye. The majority of users are using the default of treating Recommends as dependencies, for them it doesn't make any difference whether Recommends or Depends is used. Not installing Recommends is supported, and desirable in many embedded/server/container scenarios. The documented way to upgrade to a new stable release is basically apt-get upgrade apt-get dist-upgrade Without a dependency the first step might upgrade bsdmainutils, but will never install bsdextrautils. I do not know for what tools software like salt or libguestfs in buster depends on bsdmainutils, and I definitely do not want our users to learn the hard way during an upgrade. Installing bsdmainutils from unstable in buster breaks commands like man ncal | cat I would not be surprised if there is somewhere in Debian some package that would do something like that for whatever good or bad reason in a postinst or prerm. > Michael cu Adrian BTW: The naming of the packages is confusing. "extra" sounds like the more obscure utils, enhanching the more commonly used "main" tools. Looking at the tools shipped, the opposite seems to be true. One could make the point that bsdmainutils should be a (transitional?) metapackage depending on all the tools it previously provided.
Bug#963327: [Pkg-zsh-devel] Processed: Merge duplicates
> I already updated the title of the mass-merged bug to > "bsdmainutils must depend on bsdextrautils". > > This is anyway mandatory for not breaking upgrades from buster. Would you care to elaborate? I didn't find anything that mandates a dependency over a recommendation. Yes, it does break build dependencies but imo they should be changed anyway. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org) Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org Jabber: michael at xmpp dot meskes dot org VfL Borussia! Força Barça! Go SF 49ers! Use Debian GNU/Linux, PostgreSQL
Bug#963327: [Pkg-zsh-devel] Processed: Merge duplicates
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:05:00AM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote: > Control: unmerge 963420 > Control: reassign 963420 src:zsh > Control: retitle 963420 zsh: FTBFS: sh: 1: colcrt: not found > Control: found 963420 5.8-4 > Control: affects 963420 = > > Dear Adrian, > > Debian Bug Tracking System wrote: > > > reassign 963420 bsdmainutils 12.1.1 > > Bug #963420 [src:zsh] zsh: FTBFS: sh: 1: colcrt: not found > > Bug reassigned from package 'src:zsh' to 'bsdmainutils'. > > No longer marked as found in versions zsh/5.8-4. > [...] > > > retitle 963327 bsdmainutils needs Breaks on util-linux versions without > > > the tools removed in 12.1.1 > > I disagree that this would help in the case of the zsh FTBFS in > #963420. >... I already updated the title of the mass-merged bug to "bsdmainutils must depend on bsdextrautils". This is anyway mandatory for not breaking upgrades from buster. > Regards, Axel cu Adrian
Bug#963327: [Pkg-zsh-devel] Processed: Merge duplicates
Hi Adrian, Adrian Bunk wrote: > > > > retitle 963327 bsdmainutils needs Breaks on util-linux versions without > > > > the tools removed in 12.1.1 > > > > I disagree that this would help in the case of the zsh FTBFS in > > #963420. > >... > > I already updated the title of the mass-merged bug to > "bsdmainutils must depend on bsdextrautils". Ah, sorry, missed that. > This is anyway mandatory for not breaking upgrades from buster. If you don't mind I'll nevertheless fix that directly in zsh as it will likely come back again as transition after bullseye. Regards, Axel -- ,''`. | Axel Beckert , https://people.debian.org/~abe/ : :' : | Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin `. `' | 4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329 6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5 `-| 1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486 202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE
