Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
On 08/30/12 06:57, Milan Kupcevic wrote: On 08/30/2012 03:00 AM, Rick Thomas wrote: Regardless, I'm trying to write a comprehensive set of notes on booting Apple PowerMacs from USB drives, and it would be nice to have this part fully documented. Is there something I can tell people to do at the OF prompt that will load and run the stage-one boot loader? I was not able to figure out how to do it from OF. Apple machines are looking for the blessed file if 'C' key is held pressed during the machine start-up. It is the official manufacturer prescribed way to boot a Mac from a CD/DVD. I tried boot usb0/disk@1:2.\\:tbxi This appears to load the stage-one boot loader, but unfortunately, the stage-one is apparently looking for a physical CD and gives up when it doesn't find one. I suppose I could change the cd devalias to point to the USB stick, but that might have unknown ramifications later on that would be messy when you want to boot from the physical CD-ROM. I guess I'll just warn folks that they need to use install32 if they don't have a G5 machine. Enjoy! Rick PS: As you say, what I'm trying to do is only partially supported by Apple, and doing unsupported stuff may have unpredictable results. It's probably best to leave well-enough alone. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5042b20b.1040...@pobox.com
Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
On 08/29/2012 07:58 PM, Rick Thomas wrote: On Aug 29, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Rick Thomas wrote: I just tried booting a PowerMac G4 with the Wheezy installer image built on 20120826-03:23 (details of where I downloaded it from, etc available on request). The G4 is a 32-bit machine, but it seems to be offering me the choices for a 64 bit machine. Before the boot: prompt it said (among other things) install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7) install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier) and when I entered tab at the boot: prompt I saw the list of options install expert rescue auto install32 expert32 rescue32 auto32 At this point you can still type: install32 If I just hit ret at the boot: prompt it looks like it's trying to boot the 64-bit kernel, which (of course) fails on the G4. The only unusual thing about this is that I'm booting from a USB stick using Open Firmware, rather than from a physical CD-ROM. Should that make any difference? When you load yaboot binary directly from Open Firmware you are skipping blessed stage one boot loader script. That is making the difference. I just tried booting that installer from a physical CD-ROM on the G4. I got the expected (32-bit) messages. So, I guess booting from a CD sets something in the OF environment that isn't being set when booting from a USB stick? By default, PowerPC Macs boot from a CD/DVD drive by loading an Apple specific blessed file located in an Apple_HFS partition. The blessed file is a stage one boot loader. It is a file containing Open Firmware commands that are figuring out whether they run on 32-bit or 64-bit machine, followed by a boot command that loads yaboot binary while passing appropriate arguments to it. If yaboot binary gets loaded without arguments it will offer both 64-bit and 32-bit options, but default to 64-bit. Is there a fix for this, or is it an un-common enough use-case to just need to be documented as a limitation. The on-screen instructions are correct. Thus, the manual could just say something like this: When the machine boots, follow the on screen instruction. Milan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/503f0259.80...@physics.harvard.edu
Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
On Aug 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Milan Kupcevic wrote: On 08/29/2012 07:58 PM, Rick Thomas wrote: On Aug 29, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Rick Thomas wrote: I just tried booting a PowerMac G4 with the Wheezy installer image built on 20120826-03:23 (details of where I downloaded it from, etc available on request). The G4 is a 32-bit machine, but it seems to be offering me the choices for a 64 bit machine. Before the boot: prompt it said (among other things) install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7) install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier) and when I entered tab at the boot: prompt I saw the list of options install expert rescue auto install32 expert32 rescue32 auto32 At this point you can still type: install32 If I just hit ret at the boot: prompt it looks like it's trying to boot the 64-bit kernel, which (of course) fails on the G4. The only unusual thing about this is that I'm booting from a USB stick using Open Firmware, rather than from a physical CD-ROM. Should that make any difference? When you load yaboot binary directly from Open Firmware you are skipping blessed stage one boot loader script. That is making the difference. I just tried booting that installer from a physical CD-ROM on the G4. I got the expected (32-bit) messages. So, I guess booting from a CD sets something in the OF environment that isn't being set when booting from a USB stick? By default, PowerPC Macs boot from a CD/DVD drive by loading an Apple specific blessed file located in an Apple_HFS partition. The blessed file is a stage one boot loader. It is a file containing Open Firmware commands that are figuring out whether they run on 32-bit or 64-bit machine, followed by a boot command that loads yaboot binary while passing appropriate arguments to it. If yaboot binary gets loaded without arguments it will offer both 64- bit and 32-bit options, but default to 64-bit. Is there a fix for this, or is it an un-common enough use-case to just need to be documented as a limitation. The on-screen instructions are correct. Thus, the manual could just say something like this: When the machine boots, follow the on screen instruction. Milan Thanks for the explanation. It helps me understand what's going on here. What you say is, of course, technically correct. The problem I'm having is that this is an about-face change from previous practice. Previously, 32-bit was the default, and 64-bit was the specific option. Now it's the reverse. Has there been a sea-change? Are G5 machines now more common than G4s? If so it could justify a reversal of long established behavior. But, while I have no statistics to quote, I doubt it based on the comments I've read in the lists. Actually, I think the large majority of old Apple machines people are trying to use with Debian are G4s. Regardless, I'm trying to write a comprehensive set of notes on booting Apple PowerMacs from USB drives, and it would be nice to have this part fully documented. Is there something I can tell people to do at the OF prompt that will load and run the stage-one boot loader? If it's not possible to run the stage-one boot loader, is there something I can tell them to do that will pass the appropriate arguments to yaboot to make it do the right thing for their machine? Thanks! Rick PS: I think the work you're doing on this is a big step in the right direction. I'm a fan of the PowerPC architecture, and I'm just trying to help make the experience of Debian on old Macs as good as we know it can be! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/6e23c9a2-980a-4cdb-9ecc-045c3e8b0...@pobox.com
Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
On 08/30/2012 03:00 AM, Rick Thomas wrote: Thanks for the explanation. It helps me understand what's going on here. What you say is, of course, technically correct. The problem I'm having is that this is an about-face change from previous practice. Previously, 32-bit was the default, and 64-bit was the specific option. Now it's the reverse. Has there been a sea-change? Are G5 machines now more common than G4s? I do not know about the exact prevalence. Newer non-Apple PowerPC machines, i.e. YDL PowerStation (G5) and IBM POWER machines, do not load the Apple specific stage one boot loader at all, and they are all 64-bit machines. Thus the reasoning to make 64-bit option a default option. Regardless, I'm trying to write a comprehensive set of notes on booting Apple PowerMacs from USB drives, and it would be nice to have this part fully documented. Is there something I can tell people to do at the OF prompt that will load and run the stage-one boot loader? I was not able to figure out how to do it from OF. Apple machines are looking for the blessed file if 'C' key is held pressed during the machine start-up. It is the official manufacturer prescribed way to boot a Mac from a CD/DVD. Booting Apple PowerPC machines form USB is undocumented and unsupported by the manufacturer. Thus the troubles an inconsistencies. If it's not possible to run the stage-one boot loader, is there something I can tell them to do that will pass the appropriate arguments to yaboot to make it do the right thing for their machine? You could, but the line is pretty long to type. If you are loading yaboot on a 32-bit machine directly from OF, it is easier to just type install32 on the boot prompt. Milan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/503f7159.2050...@physics.harvard.edu
Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
On Aug 4, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Milan Kupcevic wrote:
On 08/04/2012 12:41 PM, Steve McIntyre wrote:
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 05:56:54PM -0400, Milan Kupcevic wrote:
This is a Debian installation ${MEDIA_TYPE},
built on ${BUILD_DATE}.
+
Enter one of the following options to begin:
-install 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
-install64 64-bit processor (G5 or IBM POWER3/4/5)
-expert expert mode on 32-bit processor
-expert64expert mode on 64-bit processor
+install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7)
+install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
Is there a reason why you've dropped mention of the expert options
here?
Just to simplify the first screen. User has to pres TAB to see a full
list of options, which is: install, expert, rescue, auto, install32,
expert32, rescue32 and auto32.
When booted on a 64-bit machine the first presented screen looks like:
=
Welcome to Debian GNU/Linux wheezy!
This is a Debian installation CDROM,
built on 20120617-18:20.
Enter one of the following options to begin:
install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7)
install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
Press TAB for a full list of options.
If the system fails to boot with a white screen
which doesn't go away, add 'video=ofonly'.
Welcome to yaboot version 1.3.16
Enter help to get some basic usage information
boot:
=
When booted on a 32-bit machine the first presented screen looks like:
=
Welcome to Debian GNU/Linux wheezy!
This is a Debian installation CDROM,
built on 20120617-18:20.
Press ENTER to continue, or press TAB for a
full list of options.
If the system fails to boot with a white screen
which doesn't go away, type:
install video=ofonly
Welcome to yaboot version 1.3.16
Enter help to get some basic usage information
boot:
=
The full list of options presented after the TAB was pressed on a 32-
bit
machine is: install, expert, rescue and auto.
Milan
I just tried booting a PowerMac G4 with the Wheezy installer image
built on 20120826-03:23 (details of where I downloaded it from, etc
available on request).
The G4 is a 32-bit machine, but it seems to be offering me the choices
for a 64 bit machine.
Before the boot: prompt it said (among other things)
install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7)
install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
and when I entered tab at the boot: prompt I saw the list of options
install expert rescue
auto install32 expert32
rescue32 auto32
If I just hit ret at the boot: prompt it looks like it's trying to
boot the 64-bit kernel, which (of course) fails on the G4.
The only unusual thing about this is that I'm booting from a USB stick
using Open Firmware, rather than from a physical CD-ROM. Should that
make any difference?
Thanks!
Rick
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Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
On Aug 29, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Rick Thomas wrote: I just tried booting a PowerMac G4 with the Wheezy installer image built on 20120826-03:23 (details of where I downloaded it from, etc available on request). The G4 is a 32-bit machine, but it seems to be offering me the choices for a 64 bit machine. Before the boot: prompt it said (among other things) install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7) install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier) and when I entered tab at the boot: prompt I saw the list of options install expert rescue auto install32 expert32 rescue32 auto32 If I just hit ret at the boot: prompt it looks like it's trying to boot the 64-bit kernel, which (of course) fails on the G4. The only unusual thing about this is that I'm booting from a USB stick using Open Firmware, rather than from a physical CD-ROM. Should that make any difference? I just tried booting that installer from a physical CD-ROM on the G4. I got the expected (32-bit) messages. So, I guess booting from a CD sets something in the OF environment that isn't being set when booting from a USB stick? Is there a fix for this, or is it an un-common enough use-case to just need to be documented as a limitation. Enjoy! Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/0224046e-f651-448b-a715-6ac35cb84...@pobox.com
Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
Hi Milan,
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 05:56:54PM -0400, Milan Kupcevic wrote:
Package: debian-cd
Tags: patch d-i wheezy
Severity: wishlist
Hello,
I would like to propose a slight change in the way PowerPC CD/DVD boots.
OK...
CD/DVD boot-script, which runs on PowerPC Mac machines, can detect
whether it runs on 32-bit or 64-bit processor, then offer boot
options accordingly. This proposed change makes 32-bit Macs offer
32-bit boot options only. Therefore, pressing ENTER or typing
'install' would load 32-bit kernel. On the other hand, 64-bit PowerPC
Macs and IBM CHRP machines would offer 64-bit boot options by
default. Therefore, pressing ENTER or typing 'install' would load
64-bit kernel, but it would also offer 32-bit boot options such as
install32 or expert32.
Right.
Attached diff introduces two new files:
boot32.msg - Boot prompt for 32-bit Macs.
mac32.conf - Options offered on 32-bit Macs.
Diff stats:
data/wheezy/yaboot/boot.msg| 18 +--
data/wheezy/yaboot/boot32.msg | 16 ++
data/wheezy/yaboot/mac32.conf | 35 ++
data/wheezy/yaboot/ofboot.b|9 +
data/wheezy/yaboot/yaboot.conf | 54 +++---
tools/boot/wheezy/boot-powerpc | 30 --
6 files changed, 113 insertions(+), 49 deletions(-)
Any comments?
Sounds sane enough, but I'm not an expert on ppc stuff. Question
below, though:
Index: data/wheezy/yaboot/boot.msg
===
--- data/wheezy/yaboot/boot.msg(revision 2346)
+++ data/wheezy/yaboot/boot.msg(working copy)
@@ -3,16 +3,16 @@
This is a Debian installation ${MEDIA_TYPE},
built on ${BUILD_DATE}.
+
Enter one of the following options to begin:
-install 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
-install64 64-bit processor (G5 or IBM POWER3/4/5)
-expert expert mode on 32-bit processor
-expert64expert mode on 64-bit processor
+install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7)
+install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
Is there a reason why you've dropped mention of the expert options
here?
--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
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Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
On 08/04/2012 12:41 PM, Steve McIntyre wrote:
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 05:56:54PM -0400, Milan Kupcevic wrote:
This is a Debian installation ${MEDIA_TYPE},
built on ${BUILD_DATE}.
+
Enter one of the following options to begin:
-install 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
-install64 64-bit processor (G5 or IBM POWER3/4/5)
-expert expert mode on 32-bit processor
-expert64expert mode on 64-bit processor
+install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7)
+install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
Is there a reason why you've dropped mention of the expert options
here?
Just to simplify the first screen. User has to pres TAB to see a full
list of options, which is: install, expert, rescue, auto, install32,
expert32, rescue32 and auto32.
When booted on a 64-bit machine the first presented screen looks like:
=
Welcome to Debian GNU/Linux wheezy!
This is a Debian installation CDROM,
built on 20120617-18:20.
Enter one of the following options to begin:
install 64-bit processor (G5 or POWER3/4/5/6/7)
install32 32-bit processor (G4 or earlier)
Press TAB for a full list of options.
If the system fails to boot with a white screen
which doesn't go away, add 'video=ofonly'.
Welcome to yaboot version 1.3.16
Enter help to get some basic usage information
boot:
=
When booted on a 32-bit machine the first presented screen looks like:
=
Welcome to Debian GNU/Linux wheezy!
This is a Debian installation CDROM,
built on 20120617-18:20.
Press ENTER to continue, or press TAB for a
full list of options.
If the system fails to boot with a white screen
which doesn't go away, type:
install video=ofonly
Welcome to yaboot version 1.3.16
Enter help to get some basic usage information
boot:
=
The full list of options presented after the TAB was pressed on a 32-bit
machine is: install, expert, rescue and auto.
Milan
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Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Processed: Re: Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org: tags 678066 +pending Bug #678066 [debian-cd] Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options Bug #614583 [debian-cd] debian-cd: Boot prompt for powerpc does not make install64 sufficiently prominent Added tag(s) pending. Added tag(s) pending. thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. -- 614583: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=614583 678066: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=678066 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/handler.s.c.134410249625635.transcr...@bugs.debian.org
Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
Any chance d-i beta 1 install CD/DVDs for PowerPC will get simplified boot options? Milan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4fe2a230.8090...@physics.harvard.edu
Bug#678066: Proposal to simplify PowerPC CD/DVD boot options
Package: debian-cd
Tags: patch d-i wheezy
Severity: wishlist
Hello,
I would like to propose a slight change in the way PowerPC CD/DVD boots.
CD/DVD boot-script, which runs on PowerPC Mac machines, can detect
whether it runs on 32-bit or 64-bit processor, then offer boot options
accordingly. This proposed change makes 32-bit Macs offer 32-bit boot
options only. Therefore, pressing ENTER or typing 'install' would load
32-bit kernel. On the other hand, 64-bit PowerPC Macs and IBM CHRP
machines would offer 64-bit boot options by default. Therefore, pressing
ENTER or typing 'install' would load 64-bit kernel, but it would also
offer 32-bit boot options such as install32 or expert32.
Attached diff introduces two new files:
boot32.msg - Boot prompt for 32-bit Macs.
mac32.conf - Options offered on 32-bit Macs.
Diff stats:
data/wheezy/yaboot/boot.msg| 18 +--
data/wheezy/yaboot/boot32.msg | 16 ++
data/wheezy/yaboot/mac32.conf | 35 ++
data/wheezy/yaboot/ofboot.b|9 +
data/wheezy/yaboot/yaboot.conf | 54 +++---
tools/boot/wheezy/boot-powerpc | 30 --
6 files changed, 113 insertions(+), 49 deletions(-)
Any comments?
Milan
Index: data/wheezy/yaboot/mac32.conf
===
--- data/wheezy/yaboot/mac32.conf (revision 0)
+++ data/wheezy/yaboot/mac32.conf (revision 0)
@@ -0,0 +1,35 @@
+## This file is for CD booting only, do not use as reference.
+## Debian GNU/Linux PowerPC (CODENAME)
+
+default=install
+message=/install/boot32.msg
+
+# 32-bit PowerPC subarch
+
+image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+ label=install
+ initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ append=--
+ initrd-size=10240
+ read-only
+
+image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+ label=expert
+ initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ append=priority=low --
+ initrd-size=10240
+ read-only
+
+image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+ label=rescue
+ initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ append=rescue/enable=true --
+ initrd-size=10240
+ read-only
+
+image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+ label=auto
+ initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ append=auto=true priority=critical --
+ initrd-size=10240
+ read-only
Index: data/wheezy/yaboot/boot32.msg
===
--- data/wheezy/yaboot/boot32.msg (revision 0)
+++ data/wheezy/yaboot/boot32.msg (revision 0)
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+Welcome to Debian GNU/Linux ${DEBIAN_VERSION}!
+
+This is a Debian installation ${MEDIA_TYPE},
+built on ${BUILD_DATE}.
+
+
+Press ENTER to continue, or press TAB for a
+full list of options.
+
+
+If the system fails to boot with a white screen
+which doesn't go away, type:
+
+install video=ofonly
+
+
Index: data/wheezy/yaboot/yaboot.conf
===
--- data/wheezy/yaboot/yaboot.conf (revision 2346)
+++ data/wheezy/yaboot/yaboot.conf (working copy)
@@ -1,70 +1,66 @@
## This yaboot.conf is for CD booting only, do not use as reference.
## Debian GNU/Linux PowerPC (CODENAME)
-# It is important not to have a comma after cd:
-# Let's disable this one for now, as it breaks on IBM 64bit boxes,
-# Not sure if it is ok on powermacs, but yaboot should be able to
-# parse that from chosen/bootpath.
-# device=cd:
default=install
-
-# FIXME: will this be the correct path?
message=/install/boot.msg
-# PowerPC subarch
-image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+# 64-bit PowerPC subarch
+
+image=/install/powerpc64/vmlinux
label=install
- initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ initrd=/install/powerpc64/initrd.gz
append=--
initrd-size=10240
read-only
-image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+image=/install/powerpc64/vmlinux
label=expert
- initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ initrd=/install/powerpc64/initrd.gz
append=priority=low --
initrd-size=10240
read-only
-image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+image=/install/powerpc64/vmlinux
label=rescue
- initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ initrd=/install/powerpc64/initrd.gz
append=rescue/enable=true --
initrd-size=10240
read-only
-image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+image=/install/powerpc64/vmlinux
label=auto
- initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
+ initrd=/install/powerpc64/initrd.gz
append=auto=true priority=critical --
initrd-size=10240
read-only
-# PowerPC 64bit subarch
-image=/install/powerpc64/vmlinux
- label=install64
- initrd=/install/powerpc64/initrd.gz
+
+# 32-bit PowerPC subarch
+
+image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+ label=install32
+ initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
append=--
initrd-size=10240
read-only
-image=/install/powerpc64/vmlinux
- label=expert64
- initrd=/install/powerpc64/initrd.gz
+image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+ label=expert32
+ initrd=/install/powerpc/initrd.gz
append=priority=low --
initrd-size=10240
read-only
-image=/install/powerpc64/vmlinux
- label=rescue64
- initrd=/install/powerpc64/initrd.gz
+image=/install/powerpc/vmlinux
+ label=rescue32
+
