Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Rather than argue about morality, legality, whatever, shouldn't we be considering this in other terms - simple usefulness? Instead of asking why shouldn't this go into Debian?, ask why _should_ this go into Debian?. We seem to have a growing and worrying trend to pick up any random free software and add it to the distribution without considering whether it's actually useful or not... -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] This dress doesn't reverse. -- Alden Spiess
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 11:04 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: pzn writes: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: fakepop Version : 7 Upstream Author : Pedro Zorzenon Neto [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : http://vztech.com.br/software/fakepop/ * License : GPL Description : fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available fakepop is a fake pop3 daemon. It returns always the same messages to all users, it does not care about usernames and passwords. All user/pass combinations are accepted. Why use fakepop: the main purpose of fakepop is to advice users that your server only accepts pop3-ssl and they have wrongly configured pop3 without ssl. You can customize messages in /etc/fakepop/ directory to teach your users how they should configure their mail clients to use pop3-ssl instead of pop3 So, let me get this straight - fakepop will allow people to log in (using their username and password) in the clear and THEN tell them that they should have used POP over SSL instead. Quite how is this better than connection refused? Read the description: You can customize messages in /etc/fakepop/ directory to teach your users how they should configure their mail clients to use pop3-ssl instead of pop3 -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge where there is no river. Nikita Krushchev signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 12:12:12PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Steve McIntyre] So, let me get this straight - fakepop will allow people to log in (using their username and password) in the clear and THEN tell them that they should have used POP over SSL instead. Quite how is this better than connection refused? connection refused generate a support request from the user, and increases the load on the support organisation. The users will ask what the error message mean, and will have to get the explanations individually. A message poping up every time the user connect to the wrong service will normally change the users behaviour without any extra work for the support organisation. It appears that you have missed the point. One of the primary reasons why you would use pops rather than pop3 (I presume) is so that your authentication credentials aren't sent in the clear. This daemon allows the user to send their credentials en clair before telling them that they need to reconfigure their mail client. To quote the Guinness ad, Brilliant! - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
* Ron Johnson | But vegetarians (there *must* be some vegan D-Ds) would strenuously | oppose to images of such horrible treatment of animals. It's not an animal. It's a sprite. Pixels on a screen. Cartoon. (And yes, there are vegan DDs, but what does that have to do with it?) -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `-
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:17:33AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 11:04 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: pzn writes: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: fakepop Version : 7 Upstream Author : Pedro Zorzenon Neto [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : http://vztech.com.br/software/fakepop/ * License : GPL Description : fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available fakepop is a fake pop3 daemon. It returns always the same messages to all users, it does not care about usernames and passwords. All user/pass combinations are accepted. Why use fakepop: the main purpose of fakepop is to advice users that your server only accepts pop3-ssl and they have wrongly configured pop3 without ssl. You can customize messages in /etc/fakepop/ directory to teach your users how they should configure their mail clients to use pop3-ssl instead of pop3 So, let me get this straight - fakepop will allow people to log in (using their username and password) in the clear and THEN tell them that they should have used POP over SSL instead. Quite how is this better than connection refused? Read the description: You can customize messages in /etc/fakepop/ directory to teach your users how they should configure their mail clients to use pop3-ssl instead of pop3 But the password have already been sent in cleartext, hasn't it ? -- Finn-Arne Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bzz.no/
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:17:33AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 11:04 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: So, let me get this straight - fakepop will allow people to log in (using their username and password) in the clear and THEN tell them that they should have used POP over SSL instead. Quite how is this better than connection refused? Read the description: You can customize messages in /etc/fakepop/ directory to teach your users how they should configure their mail clients to use pop3-ssl instead of pop3 So I can put All your mail is belong to us in my /etc/fakepop/ directory, so that people know that their passwords *have* been successfully sent in the clear before being told to reconfigure their mail client? Well, *I'm* comforted. - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 12:09 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | But vegetarians (there *must* be some vegan D-Ds) would strenuously | oppose to images of such horrible treatment of animals. It's not an animal. It's a sprite. Pixels on a screen. Cartoon. (And yes, there are vegan DDs, but what does that have to do with it?) Someone's always going to object to something... -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. What's your genius, perfect 20 years too late Monday morning quarterback answer to how the US should have responded to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? Oh wait, you're just talking crap - you don't have a real answer, you're just regurgitating crap from NPR. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=76597cid=6839483 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
* Steve McIntyre ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041201 12:20]: Rather than argue about morality, legality, whatever, shouldn't we be considering this in other terms - simple usefulness? Instead of asking why shouldn't this go into Debian?, ask why _should_ this go into Debian?. We seem to have a growing and worrying trend to pick up any random free software and add it to the distribution without considering whether it's actually useful or not... Agreed. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
Re: New method for Packages/Sources file updates
Thiemo Seufer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Goswin von Brederlow wrote: [snip] - preformance penalty for repeated patching of the same package (e.g. the zsh-beta upload every odd day) - compression penalty due to lots of small files instead of one big one from gzip, even worse with bzip2 - performance penalty due to lots of small files instead of one big one from apt-method, forking gunzip, forking patch Client-side performance is mostly irrelevant. Also, this particular set of problems can be solved by using cumulative diffs instead of several incremental ones. The number of ftp connections needed is highly relevant. For http the penalty isn't that big but still adds up. With cumulative patches you run into the problem that you need a new cummulative patch for every day that contains most of what the previous one did. That realy quickly becomes a space issue. Errm, no, it doesn't need _one_ new cumulative patch. All the previously made cumulative diffs need to be updated. I was thinking of a -1day.diff -2day.diff -3day.diff ... So every day a new file appears at the end and contains most of what all the others already contain. Updating those cummulative diffs is also either inefficient (cat the daily diffs together), very hard (figure out how to make a minimal diff from the daylies) or you need every days Packages file (apt-dupdate does that). Having to store and diff every past days Packages file is a huge resource drain and can't be done for more than a couple of days, maybe up to 2 weeks. Ask the apt-dupdate author for how long it takes every night and how much disk space it uses. If we assume to hold 14 update cycles, have a cutoff if the size of the cumulative diff exceeds the size of the Packages file, and have linear growth of the diffs, then the additional space used is at most seven times the size of the Packages file. Normally it will be much less, because large archives don't thend to change that quickly. 14 update cycles is a limitation on the process and isn't needed with sorted Packages files. Also how do you get 'seven times'? Say every day one package changes bt on the last nearly ever package changes. That means all 14 cummulative diffs will be the size of the Packages file (change as many packages as possible but so that all stay below the cutoff). That would be nearly 14 times the space. [snip] - extra space needed for the diff files Which is minimal in comparision to the archive size. Not for something like snapshots.debian.net. They do have a tad more Packages files than debian has. And why waste even a byte if it is absolutely not needed to achive the same? Again, snapshots shouldn't have any need for updating a snapshot. Yes they do. Every time a new version of a Package is released the Packages file updates. And it never gets smaller. Those would be perfect for date sorted. Rather a heuristics based on patch sizes Packages size and the number of update cycles. The absolute timespan isn't a good measure, just think about the typical update cycles for unstable, stable and security/stable. Think about unstable main. That is where most of the updating (user and archive) happens and most of the benefit will come from. The amount of new packages for October is 691Kb as gzip. That is still less than 20% of the full file. Providing update intervals of over a month for unstable is still worth it. That is over 30 diff files in your case and then multiple updates of the same packages will cummulate in the diffs. No, they won't if cumulative diffs are used. Tell me how you plan to create the 30 cumulative diffs each day. Storing the Packages files as plain text wastes too much space. bunzip2ing them every night takes too long. Just diffing them is also not that fast. Or for 60 days, which would still be 50% the size. For stable and especially security the amount of change will be even less and even more diff files would still be worth it. The size would be smaller but the number of files higher. I can't follow you. stable would have three additional diffs by now. stable-proposed-updates What I mean is that each change is very small. So the diff files don't grow much and a large amount of diffs is still below the size of the Packages file. It is not like sid where you have 100+ package changes every day. For stable-security I assume it's either tracked closely or very infrequently. Providing a slightly faster update in the latter case doesn't seem to be worthwile. The date sorted method gets it for free. - not applicable (due to number of files) to archives with hourly updates (like amd64, and we might even do 15m updates to prevent Build-Depends stalls) This suggests interested parties do frequent updates anyway. This eventually allows to shorten the timespan covered, which means the number of files won't increase much. Not realy. The buildd will do an update
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:16:16AM +0200, Sami Haahtinen wrote: But as for this issue, this can all be solved by replacing the babe in the images with a sheep, in the first pic it has all it's wool, the next it's partially sheared and finally fully sheared. (in case of overheating the image could change in to a roast) Excellent. Hot-baa. Cheers, Dave
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
[Matthew Palmer] It appears that you have missed the point. No, I didn't miss Steve's point. I just give it less priority than other points.
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 22:25 +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:17:33AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 11:04 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: So, let me get this straight - fakepop will allow people to log in (using their username and password) in the clear and THEN tell them that they should have used POP over SSL instead. Quite how is this better than connection refused? Read the description: You can customize messages in /etc/fakepop/ directory to teach your users how they should configure their mail clients to use pop3-ssl instead of pop3 So I can put All your mail is belong to us in my /etc/fakepop/ directory, so that people know that their passwords *have* been successfully sent in the clear before being told to reconfigure their mail client? Well, *I'm* comforted. But since the password isn't valid, does it make much difference? For example, my pop3 password isn't the same as my GnuPG passphrase. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. A busy mother makes slothful daughters. Unknown signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:09:12 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen writes: * Ron Johnson | But vegetarians (there *must* be some vegan D-Ds) would strenuously | oppose to images of such horrible treatment of animals. It's not an animal. It's a sprite. Pixels on a screen. Cartoon. (And yes, there are vegan DDs, but what does that have to do with it?) For the vegans we'll make a Bob The Angry Flower theme for hotbabe. az -- + Alexander Zangerl + DSA 42BD645D + (RSA 5B586291) PEZ educates the children as well. Break the neck of something cute, and you get something good to eat. -- Stig Sandbeck Mathisen pgpliEjMJn1Dp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
Ron Johnson writes: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 22:25 +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: So I can put All your mail is belong to us in my /etc/fakepop/ directory, so that people know that their passwords *have* been successfully sent in the clear before being told to reconfigure their mail client? Well, *I'm* comforted. But since the password isn't valid, does it make much difference? For example, my pop3 password isn't the same as my GnuPG passphrase. Quite, but you're more clueful than most. The people seeing these messages will most likely have just attempted to log in using their normal username and password... -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] Armed with Valor: Centurion represents quality of Discipline, Honor, Integrity and Loyalty. Now you don't have to be a Caesar to concord the digital world while feeling safe and proud.
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
* Ron Johnson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041201 12:40]: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 22:25 +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:17:33AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 11:04 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: So, let me get this straight - fakepop will allow people to log in (using their username and password) in the clear and THEN tell them that they should have used POP over SSL instead. Quite how is this better than connection refused? Read the description: You can customize messages in /etc/fakepop/ directory to teach your users how they should configure their mail clients to use pop3-ssl instead of pop3 So I can put All your mail is belong to us in my /etc/fakepop/ directory, so that people know that their passwords *have* been successfully sent in the clear before being told to reconfigure their mail client? Well, *I'm* comforted. But since the password isn't valid, does it make much difference? For example, my pop3 password isn't the same as my GnuPG passphrase. Well, but the probability that users who mis-use pop3 instead of pop3-ssl use their pop3-ssl password for pop3 is quite high. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Jaldhar H. Vyas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Andres Salomon wrote: Er. What? Since when does religion have anything to do w/ the anti-slavery movement? Exactly. For instance Mine eyes haves seen the glory of the coming of the Lord, the anthem of the abolitionists (and the Union forces in the civil war) doesn't actually refer to theology but the superiority of Arch over CVS. LOL! Rotty -- Andreas Rottmann | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://yi.org/rotty | GnuPG Key: http://yi.org/rotty/gpg.asc Fingerprint | DFB4 4EB4 78A4 5EEE 6219 F228 F92F CFC5 01FD 5B62 Python is executable pseudocode, Perl is executable line-noise.
Re: Bug#276057: ITP: mediawiki -- Wikipedia wiki engine
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: mediawiki Version : 1.3.5 Upstream Author : Mediawiki developers [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net/ * License : GPL Description : Wikipedia wiki engine MediaWiki is the wiki engine that runs Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikibooks, and all the other Wikimedia wiki web sites. (A wiki engine is a web-based tool for collaborative editing). It uses PHP and MySQL. -- System Information: Debian Release: 3.1 APT prefers unstable APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-1-k7 Locale: LANG=en_CA.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_CA.UTF-8 hi I've woking on that same package for a while as an exercice to learn how to make debian packages. It's not finished but as i noticed that mediawiki depends on phptal, an implementation of Zope Page Templates for PHP... Logically i contacted phptal author and made the phptal package. That one is finished and i'm actually testing it on different servers... You can try it, any comment is welcome : http://nawak.taadeem.net/phptal_0.7.0-1_all.deb this phptal package is unofficial but i'll post an ITP request in the forthcoming days. if you need any help for the mediawiki package, please contact me... Damien pgpMyeMveu2yX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] God knows what [was Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor]
On Wednesday 01 December 2004 18:41, Thomas Bushnell BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russell Coker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You could. However there is no sign of a repeat of that now so it's less of an issue. The actions of the crusaders bear many similarities to what is happening in the middle east at the moment so it remains topical. I'm no fan of the Bush Administration's adventures, but there aren't all that many similarities. The current adventure is about oil, about Bush's fantasies that he's promoting democracy, and about domestic American politics, especially Bush's perceived need to look tough. By contrast, the Crusades were motivated much more directly by religion, Talk to someone who lives in those regions and try and convince them that the crusades were based on religion. Visit Venice and see the loot from the crusades on display. Read about the Fourth Crusade where sacking a Christian city was more profitable. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 11:36 +, Dave Holland wrote: On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:16:16AM +0200, Sami Haahtinen wrote: But as for this issue, this can all be solved by replacing the babe in the images with a sheep, in the first pic it has all it's wool, the next it's partially sheared and finally fully sheared. (in case of overheating the image could change in to a roast) Excellent. Hot-baa. Make that very-hot-baa. ;) -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
* Ron Johnson | *No*, that's *not* true. The thought (well mine, at least) is, | not in main, not on Disk 1. What's on the first CD is decided by popcon. If you continue to pimp hot-babe as you are doing in this thread, it might very easily end up there. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `-
Re: Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
* jaromil | in case you are an arrogant person (i don't mean you are, i just don't | know you at all) then consider that the GNU FDL license applied to the | manual and documentation of hasciicam requires: the Invariant Sections | being NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, AUTHOR In that case, I think you should reword the description in order not to cause the full Packages file to fall under the FDL due to being an aggregated work. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `-
Re: Bug#283751: ITP: fakepop -- fake pop3 server to warn users that only pop3-ssl is available
* Matthew Palmer | It appears that you have missed the point. One of the primary reasons why | you would use pops rather than pop3 (I presume) is so that your | authentication credentials aren't sent in the clear. This daemon allows the | user to send their credentials en clair before telling them that they need | to reconfigure their mail client. To quote the Guinness ad, Brilliant! They'll send them once in the clear, yes. Not each time, as they would with normal pop. Not perfect, but in many cases a reasonable tradeoff. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `-
Re: On unresponsive maintainers (was: Re: On using magicfilter and gs)
On Dec 01 2004, s. keeling wrote: A couple of them have replied to mine, mentioning that woody's old as dirt, and they're up to their eyeballs trying to bring sarge to stable. 'Sounds like a fairly reasonable excuse to me. I don't begrudge them that. But the fact is that I *am* using testing. I gave up on woody way too many months ago. Heck, I don't care for fixes for woody. I'd be happy if the fixes were only available for sarge+1, but if they were indeed fixed. -- Learn to quote e-mails decently at: http://pub.tsn.dk/how-to-quote.php http://learn.to/quote http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/toppost.htm
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
El Miércoles 01 Diciembre 2004 07:10, Ron Johnson escribió: Which goes by the name (and flag) of Red Crescent in Arabic countries as they still have not forgotten or forgiven what the crusaders did while carrying a flag with a red cross on a white background. The point is that religion (Christianity, in this case) *does* often inspire goodness. It's not just, Hey, let's go conquer some land, and pretend that we're doing it for Jesus.. I think we are all getting REALLY OFFTOPIC. Now we are discussing about the intentions of crusaders... Please, stop it. César
Re: bad archive handling (was: Re: GNOME 2.8 on ia64 completely hosed?)
Hello. Sven Luther: No the real solution to this is to have the archive software accept multiple copies of a same package, and not remove the older arch:all packages when there are still arch:any package from the same source package in the archive. But the original problem (from debian-gtk-gnome) wasn't that the archive deletes the older versions (it doesn't), but that the client-side program wants the *newest* versions of packages. gnome-applets-data_2.8.1.1-3_all.deb was in the archive when gnome-applets_2.8.1.1-3_ia64.deb was the newest gnome-applets for ia64, but gnome-applets-data_2.8.1.1-4_all.deb was there *already*, and so apt didn't want to get the older, -3 gnome-applets-data. gnome-applets and gnome-applets-data must be the same version, but from the ia64's point of view the newest gnome-applets was -3 and the newest gnome-applets-data was -4. It's apt who should have requested gnome-applets-data -3 istead of breaking. Archive was ok all the time. Cheers, -- Shot -- The only winner in the War of 1812 was Tchaikovsky. -- Solomon Short http://shot.pl/hovercraft/ === signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#283806: ITP: elizatalk -- talk program like emacs psychatrist
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: elizatalk Version : 0.4 Upstream Author : Duane Fields [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : http://elizatalk.sf.net * License : GPL Description : talk program like emacs psychatrist Elizatalk is a talkback program for the Licq Autoreply plugin v1.0 or higher. This program allows you to let you friends talk interactively to your autoresponder. Some people even think they are actually talking to you.. :-). It also works with centericq. -- System Information: Debian Release: 3.1 APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.9 Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15) (ignored: LC_ALL set to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- Nico Golde - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GPG: 1024D/73647CFF [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.ngolde.de VIM has two modes - the one in which it beeps and the one in which it doesn't signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
Re: jaromil in [EMAIL PROTECTED] in case you are an arrogant person (i don't mean you are, i just don't know you at all) then consider that the GNU FDL license applied to the manual and documentation of hasciicam requires: the Invariant Sections being NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, AUTHOR May I suggest to move the package to non-free then? Christoph -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.df7cb.de/
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Hello. Ron Johnson: If Disk 1 has hot-babe on it, I couldn't give it to Dick or Jane the 13 year old neighborhood geeks. If Disk 1 has hot-babe on it, then hot-babe is one of the most popular (most wanted) packages. I'd rather have Disk 1 more usable for Debian users than more suited for giving out to non-users. Cheers, -- Shot -- I detest life-insurance agents; they always argue that I shall some day die, which is not so. -- Stephen Leacock http://shot.pl/hovercraft/ === signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Hi all, I read all the thread and I noted you are forgeting a main problem about this package. In my point of view: First of all, it's a sexist package, sure. Putting a program on Debian in which you have pictures of nude women is VERY agressive to the most women. Yes, it's agressive to me. One way of fixing this specific problem is creating a way to choose between pictures of women or men on the program. Yes, why not have p0rn pictures of a man in the .deb package too? Is it possible to fix this sexism problem? When the sexism problem is gone, the other question we have to discuss is: is it a problem to have this kind of pictures go into Debian? We need to discuss this point and find a technical way of solving the first. I really don't want to see a sexist program in Debian. I'm open to discuss if it is offensive or not. I hope you all understand, let's find a good way to solve this problem. Regards, Fernanda G Weiden -- Projeto Software Livre Mulheres http://mulheres.softwarelivre.org Os homens so ensinados a se desculpar por suas fraquezas. As mulheres, por sua fora. --Lois Wyse signature.asc Description: Esta =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9?= uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:16:11 -0200, Fernanda Giroleti Weiden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... We need to discuss this point and find a technical way of solving the first. ... Years ago (MSDOS 5 days) I was writing a work-group computing series for Datapro; the Microsoft representative I had been interviwing at the time stated that *IF* Unix (aka Linux) was more User-Friendly more people would use it. I said that if Unix was as *Helpful* as Windows (3.1) wanted to be -- Everyone would have computer viruses =/ Yes, these are my comments about sexist, friendly programs, in/on/around *my* system... Just Say *No* to this idea. No one is stopping developers from making such a beast just as no one is stopping virus makers from making their warez. If, in the debian communitys great wisdom, it is decided that dancing lappers should wiggle and jiggle across Debian desktops everywhere - please put a *Delete me* option in that proggies Dialog =) -- WC -Sx- Jones http://insecurity.org/
Re: Simultaneous loading of e100 and eepro100 by hotplug
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 16:25 +0100, Christoph Hellwig wrote: On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 07:55:59PM +0900, Mike Hommey wrote: The problem is the following: is the e100 driver available in all kernel flavours/versions ? If yes, then it is safe to blacklist it in hotplug directly. If not, then it is not safe to do it in hotplug because it would blacklist eepro100 which would be the only working module on some flavours/versions. eepro100 is the older driver, but e100 has been available since early 2.4, so it's there in all debian kernels. e100 supports much more hardware than eepro100 (like the one on the mainboard of one of my boxens) and is actively maintained by Intel while eepro100 only gets odd fixes. Unfortunately there's some older hardware where eepro100 works and e100 doesn't, and debugging this is really hard because the hardware has gazillions of slightly incompatible variants. Worse: debian kernels 2.4.18 didn't have it yet, and a lot of Woody system probably still have this version. -- Jerome Warnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] BeezNest
Re: Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:43:29PM +0100, Christoph Berg wrote: Re: jaromil in [EMAIL PROTECTED] in case you are an arrogant person (i don't mean you are, i just don't know you at all) then consider that the GNU FDL license applied to the manual and documentation of hasciicam requires: the Invariant Sections being NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, AUTHOR May I suggest to move the package to non-free then? may i suggest to move the package out of Debian then? now please you all take a breath and stop thinking like a robot; try to imagine my position, the position of an author of software which happens to be included also in Debian. this is something that you should carefully evaluate in order to accomply to your blessed mission of distributing free software. I write free software, HasciiCam is just one, FreeJ is another, MuSE is another, they are all in Debian even if i never asked you to include them, still i love free and open source software and of course i let people do what they can with it. now you can imagine that I and I am offended by the argument of seeking personal gratification made in this same thread here! it's obviously not what i seek since i never wanted it to be in Debian, and you come and insult me in public this way! yes because in my philosophy doing things for personal gratification is not such a good behaviour! i find it an insult: my agenda includes the development of free and open source software for political reasons and carrying a political message, i make this well manifest thru my actions, day by day. this is all what i care of. and again I and I am offended by someone using small bureaucratic clauses of the free license actually as an argument AGAINST a programmer of free software. oh, is so great to be here with you guys!!! ok now please be careful: i'm talking about correctness and respect! I think many people here is being very arrogant and this is indeed not the first time i realize that among Debian developers, especially the youngs and less experienced ones, so i finally come to this small issue to give evidence to a more general problem here. To me eyes your behaviour is outrageous and i really hope you don't threat like that the people around you, in that case you must have very big problems in your social life! Instead i think you should really care to threat with more humanity people that you talk with on the other side of the screen; if it is not the case then please leave Debian development because yours is not going to be a good contribution, considered that such a collective project also requires social skills to be developed. In fact i do care about Debian and i hope it can get better in future, so please adopt a better attitude and take care to talk friendly to upstream authors - don't trick them on the basis of the same free licenses they adopt because that can be a big drawback for licensing free software in the eyse of many programmers! - and don't make your points on the level of conflict, but please SEEK AGREEMENT! finally, coming back to HasciiCam, i think that there is room for both definitions as previously stated in the thread, that is a good and peaceful solution and we should all learn from that spirit. so here i draw a line in the ground with my finger and say - -- RESPECT IS DUE TO THE DREADLOCK RASTAMAN do what you want, but give respect to who writes free code and commits his ideas to the community: that is the most important thing you care about when you are doing a GNU/Linux distribution. now please get out of my hut and go playing indian and cowboys in the garden you kids! :) peace, ciao - -- jaromil, dyne.org rasta coder, http://rastasoft.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Cryptographically signed mail, see http://gnupg.org iD8DBQFBrebIWLCC1ltubZcRAkF7AJkBx2W7V+6pDWGS9cGatWpGK+KB8ACePnoH NjK5fLAsQRPhV16pLVQDV4A= =S2+W -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
El Miércoles 01 Diciembre 2004 16:44, jaromil escribió: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:43:29PM +0100, Christoph Berg wrote: Re: jaromil in [EMAIL PROTECTED] in case you are an arrogant person (i don't mean you are, i just don't know you at all) then consider that the GNU FDL license applied to the manual and documentation of hasciicam requires: the Invariant Sections being NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, AUTHOR May I suggest to move the package to non-free then? may i suggest to move the package out of Debian then? now please you all take a breath and stop thinking like a robot; try to imagine my position, the position of an author of software which happens to be included also in Debian. this is something that you should carefully evaluate in order to accomply to your blessed mission of distributing free software. I can understand your position, and why you are disapointed. But you have to think there is Debian Policy, in order all these packages seem a distribution and not only a bunch of packages. Debian Policy states: The description should describe the package (the program) to a user (system administrator) who has never met it before so that they have enough information to decide whether they want to install it. This description should not just be copied verbatim from the program's documentation. [..] Remember that in many situations the user may only see the synopsis line - make it as informative as you can. http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#s-descriptions ok now please be careful: i'm talking about correctness and respect! I think many people here is being very arrogant and this is indeed not the first time i realize that among Debian developers, especially the youngs and less experienced ones, so i finally come to this small issue to give evidence to a more general problem here. I agree with that. What can we do? now please get out of my hut and go playing indian and cowboys in the garden you kids! :) You are funny :-D César
Re: Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
Hi all, Hi all, I read all the thread and I noted you are forgeting a main problem about this package. In my point of view: First of all, it's a sexist package, sure. Putting a program on Debian in which you have pictures of nude women is VERY agressive to the most women. Yes, it's agressive to me. It is also offensive to me. I doubt that we are unusual in this. [...] When the sexism problem is gone, the other question we have to discuss is: is it a problem to have this kind of pictures go into Debian? I think that is the main issue here. I would like to believe that Debian is capable of showing more respect for other people than including hotbabe in the distribution would indicate. Helen.
Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:43:29PM +0100, Christoph Berg wrote: Re: jaromil in [EMAIL PROTECTED] in case you are an arrogant person (i don't mean you are, i just don't know you at all) then consider that the GNU FDL license applied to the manual and documentation of hasciicam requires: the Invariant Sections being NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, AUTHOR May I suggest to move the package to non-free then? may i suggest to move the package out of Debian then? now please you all take a breath and stop thinking like a robot; try to imagine my position, the position of an author of software which happens to be included also in Debian. this is something that you should carefully evaluate in order to accomply to your blessed mission of distributing free software. I write free software, HasciiCam is just one, FreeJ is another, MuSE is another, they are all in Debian even if i never asked you to include them, still i love free and open source software and of course i let people do what they can with it. now you can imagine that I and I am offended by the argument of seeking personal gratification made in this same thread here! it's obviously not what i seek since i never wanted it to be in Debian, and you come and insult me in public this way! yes because in my philosophy doing things for personal gratification is not such a good behaviour! i find it an insult: my agenda includes the development of free and open source software for political reasons and carrying a political message, i make this well manifest thru my actions, day by day. this is all what i care of. and again I and I am offended by someone using small bureaucratic clauses of the free license actually as an argument AGAINST a programmer of free software. oh, is so great to be here with you guys!!! ok now please be careful: i'm talking about correctness and respect! I think many people here is being very arrogant and this is indeed not the first time i realize that among Debian developers, especially the youngs and less experienced ones, so i finally come to this small issue to give evidence to a more general problem here. To me eyes your behaviour is outrageous and i really hope you don't threat like that the people around you, in that case you must have very big problems in your social life! Instead i think you should really care to threat with more humanity people that you talk with on the other side of the screen; if it is not the case then please leave Debian development because yours is not going to be a good contribution, considered that such a collective project also requires social skills to be developed. In fact i do care about Debian and i hope it can get better in future, so please adopt a better attitude and take care to talk friendly to upstream authors - don't trick them on the basis of the same free licenses they adopt because that can be a big drawback for licensing free software in the eyse of many programmers! - and don't make your points on the level of conflict, but please SEEK AGREEMENT! finally, coming back to HasciiCam, i think that there is room for both definitions as previously stated in the thread, that is a good and peaceful solution and we should all learn from that spirit. so here i draw a line in the ground with my finger and say - - -- RESPECT IS DUE TO THE DREADLOCK RASTAMAN do what you want, but give respect to who writes free code and commits his ideas to the community: that is the most important thing you care about when you are doing a GNU/Linux distribution. now please get out of my hut and go playing indian and cowboys in the garden you kids! :) peace, ciao - -- jaromil, dyne.org rasta coder, http://rastasoft.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Cryptographically signed mail, see http://gnupg.org iD8DBQFBrepiWLCC1ltubZcRAqXBAJ9MVNTlU4YIu0dDUbSI4ZS2ccE0EgCdG+i+ u9ELjxj6ei62mglfUYwpEeg= =Pr0q -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Bug#279062: ITP: kboincspy -- A BOINC monitoring tool for KDE
On Sunday 31 October 2004 13:02, Frank S. Thomas wrote: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: kboincspy Upstream Author : Roberto A. Virga [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : http://sourceforge.net/projects/kboincspy/ * License : GPL Description : A BOINC monitoring tool for KDE KBoincSpy is a KDE monitoring utility for the BOINC distributed client. Designed to be the successor of KSetiSpy, it offers support for a virtually unlimited number of BOINC projects through a plugin-based architecture. The source package of version 0.8.0 is now available at: http://www.thomas-alfeld.de/frank/download/debian/kboincspy/ I'm not a DD, so sponsors are welcome! -Frank
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Am 2004-11-30 00:31:57, schrieb Thibaut VARENE: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: hot-babe Description : a rather erotic graphical system activity monitor hot-babe is a small graphical utility which display the system activity in a very special way. When the CPU is idle, it displays a dressed girl, and when the activity goes up, as the temperature increases, the girl begins to undress to finish totally naked when the system activity reaches 100%. Of course, if you can be shocked by nudity, don't use it! Sorry, but in some countries there is pornography and nudity illegal. Like arabian and persian countries. So I think, it is not a realy good idea to includer hot-babe in the Debian main stream. I do not like to go to prison in Iran or may be killed because I have such application on one of my Desktops. Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Am 2004-11-30 18:17:37, schrieb Ron Johnson: However, I'd be *highly* agitated if someone gave my daughter a CD-ROM with *any* nudy cartoons. Agreed. Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
* jaromil | On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:43:29PM +0100, Christoph Berg wrote: | | May I suggest to move the package to non-free then? | | may i suggest to move the package out of Debian then? Non-free is not Debian, so that's exactly what will happen. | now please you all take a breath and stop thinking like a robot; | try to imagine my position, the position of an author of software which | happens to be included also in Debian. | this is something that you should carefully evaluate in order to | accomply to your blessed mission of distributing free software. There is nothing blessed and nothing mission about Debian. | I write free software, HasciiCam is just one, FreeJ is another, MuSE is | another, they are all in Debian even if i never asked you to include | them, still i love free and open source software and of course i let | people do what they can with it. If hasciicam is free software then we may do such things as change the description. If not, it's not free. If it's free, we don't have to ask for permission to distribute it -- you gave the world that permission when you made it free. | and again I and I am offended by someone using small bureaucratic | clauses of the free license actually as an argument AGAINST a programmer | of free software. You have to play by the same rules as you ask others to play by. | oh, is so great to be here with you guys!!! «Multiple exclamation marks,» he went on, shaking his head, «are a sure sign of a diseased mind.» (Terry Pratchett, Eric) | i'm talking about correctness and respect! [...] | now please get out of my hut and go playing indian and cowboys in the | garden you kids! :) Do as you preach. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `-
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Am 2004-12-01 12:30:11, schrieb Cesar Martinez Izquierdo: IMHO, we really can't exclude all the programs that *MAY BE* illegal in some country. We should only exclude when there is an actual legal threaten. Nudity and pornographi is illegalö in more the 80 countries and this you tell some ? Only the possession without installing it is already punishable. So if someon can download the CD and can has a domage on his/her health and live then we should not include this Package in Debian. Otherwise, I'm quite sure I can find a country where each package is not legal, and I can start to send concerns to Debian legal, and in some months we can stop packaging Debian... I don't see why we need to do so, if the data is DSFG free. The program is intended to include THAT set of images, and not a different one, at least for the moment. Have you find those images? I find them quite artistical. And exhibitioning of naked women only is discrimination... César Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
McAfee GroupShield Alert
McAfee GroupShield Alert McAfee GroupShield discovered a problem with the following email. See your system administrator for further information. Date/Time sent: 01 Dec 2004 10:45:32 Subject line: Re: Hello From: debian-devel@lists.debian.org To: Granneman, Joseph Action taken: Replaced Reason: File Filter Rule Group: No Execs Copyright 1993-2003, Networks Associates Technology, Inc. All Rights Reserved. http://www.mcafeesecurity.com http://www.mcafeesecurity.com/
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Am 2004-12-01 13:20:15, schrieb Tollef Fog Heen: * Ron Johnson | *No*, that's *not* true. The thought (well mine, at least) is, | not in main, not on Disk 1. What's on the first CD is decided by popcon. If you continue to pimp hot-babe as you are doing in this thread, it might very easily end up there. :-( Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Ufff... Hello Fernanda, Am 2004-12-01 13:16:11, schrieb Fernanda Giroleti Weiden: Hi all, I read all the thread and I noted you are forgeting a main problem about this package. In my point of view: First of all, it's a sexist package, sure. Putting a program on Debian in which you have pictures of nude women is VERY agressive to the most women. Yes, it's agressive to me. And I was thinking, I am alone... Thanks Fernanda. One way of fixing this specific problem is creating a way to choose between pictures of women or men on the program. Yes, why not have p0rn pictures of a man in the .deb package too? Is it possible to fix this sexism problem? This is what I have writen in a previos Message too. Exhibiting of women only IS discrimination. When the sexism problem is gone, the other question we have to discuss is: is it a problem to have this kind of pictures go into Debian? In more the 80 counties YES. All Islamic contries doe not allow the possession of pornography and nudity material... I am working since many years wih UNIX and since 6 years with Debian GNU/Linux and I am origin iraniene which mean, I am awaiting the death-penalty if someone fins out, I have a CD or a private Debian-Mirror which contains... Please not that I am a femal developer and iranien taw treats women 10 harder the men. I am probably in danger with this kind of content. We need to discuss this point and find a technical way of solving the first. erotic.debian.org :-) I really don't want to see a sexist program in Debian. I'm open to discuss if it is offensive or not. I hope you all understand, let's find a good way to solve this problem. Thanks Fernanda. Regards, Fernanda G Weiden Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:34:34 +0100 Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 2004-11-30 00:31:57, schrieb Thibaut VARENE: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: hot-babe Description : a rather erotic graphical system activity monitor hot-babe is a small graphical utility which display the system activity in a very special way. When the CPU is idle, it displays a dressed girl, and when the activity goes up, as the temperature increases, the girl begins to undress to finish totally naked when the system activity reaches 100%. Of course, if you can be shocked by nudity, don't use it! Sorry, but in some countries there is pornography and nudity illegal. Like arabian and persian countries. This is neither nudity nor pornography, this is a cartoon picture. I won't comment on the like arabian and persian countries which is vague enough to be easily taken down. So I think, it is not a realy good idea to includer hot-babe in the Debian main stream. I do not like to go to prison in Iran or may be killed because I have such application on one of my Desktops. Then don't install it. What you are doing here has a name: it is spreading FUD. No one is going to get killed because of that software, what you are saying here is very dangerous and rude. If you are not confident enough with your english level, i suggest you check your wording in a dictionary. This program can _at most_ be qualified as being erotic, certainly not pornographic. Now unless someone from d-legal stands up and explains me with _valid arguments_ that this program cannot be included in Debian, I'll consider any further mails such as this one as void. There have been threads and flames in the past about various programs being part of Debian (such as dopewar) and they have proven to be moot points most of the time. What goes in Debian is decided according to the Debian Policy, and the DFSG. This program is fully DFSG-compliant. As for the local law policy, unless i'm very wrong, Debian already provides software which is illegal in some countries (such as cryptographic software). This has never been a problem, hopefully, otherwise Debian lawyers would have a very hard time checking all countries (that's a few hundreds, iirc) local laws, and we would end with not much being in the Debian archive. The Debian archive provides a set of packages, a collection of open source software that you can find on the Internet anyway. You are supposed to pick up in that collection whatever you want/need. Nothing forces you to install something you don't want/dislike, you are supposed to act like a grown up, after all. Please don't mix your own opinions with a more general debate. You are free to dislike that piece of software, but you cannot spread FUD to illustrate your ideas. -- Thibaut VARENE The PA/Linux ESIEE Team http://www.pateam.org/ pgpm0Sf4zuTWV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 04:01:06AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: Then, Disk 1 (which is very full-featured, after all) can be passed out where ever and to who ever, without any fear of possible problems. Hard-coding a list of unacceptable packages into the CD building scripts is a waste of time, because the location of a package on a CD set is primarily determined by its importance to the system and by its popularity. Most of these packages are in danger of ending up on the first CD any time soon -- and, if they were, why should we be overriding the overwhelming preferences expressed by our users just to pander to the childish sensibilities of people who *aren't* our users? Even worse with dvd images where nearly everything is on disc1. MfG Goswin
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Am 2004-12-01 11:17:19, schrieb Steve McIntyre: We seem to have a growing and worrying trend to pick up any random free software and add it to the distribution without considering whether it's actually useful or not... Agreed. Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Am 2004-12-01 05:16:16, schrieb Sami Haahtinen: But as for this issue, this can all be solved by replacing the babe in the images with a sheep, in the first pic it has all it's wool, the next it's partially sheared and finally fully sheared. (in case of overheating the image could change in to a roast) I hope nobody objects to animal nudity. :-) There, issue solved. -- Sami Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Fernanda Giroleti Weiden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all, I read all the thread and I noted you are forgeting a main problem about this package. In my point of view: First of all, it's a sexist package, sure. Putting a program on Debian in which you have pictures of nude women is VERY agressive to the most women. Yes, it's agressive to me. One way of fixing this specific problem is creating a way to choose between pictures of women or men on the program. Yes, why not have p0rn pictures of a man in the .deb package too? Is it possible to fix this sexism problem? apt-get install gimp gimp reportbug -A new-pictures.xcf.gz :) The problem there is more a Is someone willing and able to draw them more than anything else I'm sure. MfG Goswin
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Am 2004-12-01 04:13:18, schrieb Ron Johnson: I hope nobody objects to animal nudity. You know, my son would think it's great... But vegetarians (there *must* be some vegan D-Ds) would strenuously oppose to images of such horrible treatment of animals. ROFL Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: bad archive handling
Shot (Piotr Szotkowski) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello. Sven Luther: No the real solution to this is to have the archive software accept multiple copies of a same package, and not remove the older arch:all packages when there are still arch:any package from the same source package in the archive. But the original problem (from debian-gtk-gnome) wasn't that the archive deletes the older versions (it doesn't), but that the client-side program wants the *newest* versions of packages. Which is true but not the problem at all. gnome-applets-data_2.8.1.1-3_all.deb was in the archive when gnome-applets_2.8.1.1-3_ia64.deb was the newest gnome-applets for ia64, but gnome-applets-data_2.8.1.1-4_all.deb was there *already*, and so apt didn't want to get the older, -3 gnome-applets-data. The question is no what is in the archive but what is listed in the Packages file (as the highest version but there is always only one in Debian). gnome-applets and gnome-applets-data must be the same version, but from the ia64's point of view the newest gnome-applets was -3 and the newest gnome-applets-data was -4. It's apt who should have requested gnome-applets-data -3 istead of breaking. Archive was ok all the time. The newest and the only one in that distribution. 'apt-get install gnome-applets-data=2.8.1.1-3' would not have worked. Cheers, -- Shot -- The only winner in the War of 1812 was Tchaikovsky. -- Solomon Short http://shot.pl/hovercraft/ === MfG Goswin
Re: Stress-Testing my Spam filter (Was [OT] God knows what / Re: Bug#283578: ...)
Guten Abend Andreas, Am 2004-12-01 10:37:14, schrieb Andreas Tille: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Thomas Bushnell BSG ... and many other wrote: [something about hot-babes, porn etc] So what about my Spam Filter? Should I agree with it that this is Spam from my fellow Debian developers? Or should I tell him: Hey they are discussing useful things? But on the other hand it is definitely Spam if we are not able to stop those stupid threads ... It is realy easy to filter :-) Andreas. Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 06:12:21PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2004-12-01 13:16:11, schrieb Fernanda Giroleti Weiden: First of all, it's a sexist package, sure. Putting a program on Debian in which you have pictures of nude women is VERY agressive to the most women. Yes, it's agressive to me. And I was thinking, I am alone... It's VERY oppressive to force hot-babe out of Debian because of personal feelings about nudity. It's pure anti-speech insanity leading the way to socialism.
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Good evening Thibaut, Am 2004-12-01 18:15:48, schrieb Thibaut VARENE: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:34:34 +0100 Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but in some countries there is pornography and nudity illegal. Like arabian and persian countries. This is neither nudity nor pornography, this is a cartoon picture. I know, but cartoons ar faling into the same category. Then don't install it. I do not need to install it... If someon know I have the CD... I will HAVE problems. What you are doing here has a name: it is spreading FUD. No one is going to get killed because of that software, what you are saying here is very dangerous and rude. ??? There was a 15 years old Boy for two or three years in Iran and he was hanged-up because he was searchin for a program, downloaded it and it was containing a Dialer which had downloaded Erotic pics... On 26.7.2004 there was a 16 years girls hanged-up because she was violated and the man had told the justice, she was his girlfriend. Minimal punishment for him and death for her. I was already on time 17 and another time 3 month in prison... ...for nothing ! I do not like to continue this in Iran. If you are not confident enough with your english level, i suggest you check your wording in a dictionary. This program can _at most_ be qualified as being erotic, certainly not pornographic. Do you think, the Aiatholla make a difference between ? There have been threads and flames in the past about various programs being part of Debian (such as dopewar) and they have proven to be moot points most of the time. What goes in Debian is decided according to the Debian Policy, and the DFSG. This is a technical and licence issue... This program is fully DFSG-compliant. As for the local law policy, unless i'm very wrong, Debian already provides software which is illegal in some countries (such as cryptographic software). This has never been a problem, hopefully, otherwise Debian lawyers would have a very hard time checking all countries (that's a few hundreds, iirc) local laws, and we would end with not much being in the Debian archive. Cryptographical Software is one thing erotic/pronography another. The Debian archive provides a set of packages, a collection of open source software that you can find on the Internet anyway. You are supposed to pick up in that collection whatever you want/need. Nothing forces you to install something you don't want/dislike, you are supposed to act like a grown up, after all. Right, if the upstream of hot-babe create a private repository or find some others to create a collection in a seperatly debian-repository, it would be the best. Distributing of erotic as real or cartoon in Debian can make problems. Please don't mix your own opinions with a more general debate. You are free to dislike that piece of software, but you cannot spread FUD to illustrate your ideas. You was never in a persian (Iran, Tadshikistan, Afghanistan) or arabian country... So you do not know whhats going on there. You do not know the risk. Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 09:16, Fernanda Giroleti Weiden wrote: Hi all, I read all the thread and I noted you are forgeting a main problem about this package. In my point of view: First of all, it's a sexist package, sure. Putting a program on Debian in which you have pictures of nude women is VERY agressive to the most women. Yes, it's agressive to me. One way of fixing this specific problem is creating a way to choose between pictures of women or men on the program. Yes, why not have p0rn pictures of a man in the .deb package too? Is it possible to fix this sexism problem? If you draw some (DFSG-free) pictures of naked men for the program, I hereby promise to patch it to support theming (offer good for two months from today). -- Joe Wreschnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 01:06 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 01:58:45PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:26 +0100, Eric Lavarde wrote: But we should be able to pass out Debian disks to children without fear of newspaper stories like A young girl yesterday found pictures of naked women of a Linux computer disk and be able to pass them around in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc without threat of the passer and the passee being beaten or thrown in jail by the Morality Police. Uh. If you live in a country where you could be thrown in jail because someone gave you a CD-ROM containing almost 650MB worth of software of which less than half a meg contains nudity cartoons, I think you have a bigger problem than said nudity. That's beyond the scope of this discussion. However, I'd be *highly* agitated if someone gave my daughter a CD-ROM with *any* nudy cartoons. Then you'd better not bring your daughter to Europe. I am sure she would see much more explicit drawings and photos in the advertisements by the side of the road or on TV. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 06:54:20PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: There was a 15 years old Boy for two or three years in Iran and he was hanged-up because he was searchin for a program, downloaded it and it was containing a Dialer which had downloaded Erotic pics... Under no sane view Debian or hot-babe could be alleged guilty for crimes commited by crazy governments. One does not stop living because terrorists could use products of his work as excuses for crimes. Killing, hurting, imprisioning people because of erotism *is* terrorism whose guilty belongs *strictly* to the criminous murderers of that specific government.
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:34:34PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: I do not like to go to prison in Iran or may be killed because I have such application on one of my Desktops. If you can be killed because you have such application (picture) then you are in big trouble, anyway. I like to have such application (picture) not because I actully like this sorts of pictures, but because I like to be free to choose what I want to have. If someone take this one from me today, I might have not a photo of my daughter without the veil over her face tomorrow. Freedom is taken out piece by piece, history tell us.
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 06:17:37PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: However, I'd be *highly* agitated if someone gave my daughter a CD-ROM with *any* nudy cartoons. I'd rather live with this risk than with less freedom.
Re: Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
Op wo, 01-12-2004 te 16:44 +0100, schreef jaromil: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:43:29PM +0100, Christoph Berg wrote: Re: jaromil in [EMAIL PROTECTED] in case you are an arrogant person (i don't mean you are, i just don't know you at all) then consider that the GNU FDL license applied to the manual and documentation of hasciicam requires: the Invariant Sections being NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, AUTHOR May I suggest to move the package to non-free then? may i suggest to move the package out of Debian then? Well, non-free isn't part of Debian, so... That said, the Debian project considers the GFDL to be non-free, especially when invariant sections are being used (but still so if they are not). It's just that for the Sarge release, we won't throw GFDL-licensed works out yet. [...] ok now please be careful: i'm talking about correctness and respect! Good for you. We, on the other hand, are talking about license freeness. Even though the FSF considers the GFDL to be a Free license, Debian does not. It has nothing to do with respect. -- EARTH smog | bricks AIR -- mud -- FIRE soda water | tequila WATER -- with thanks to fortune
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
Helen Faulkner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that is the main issue here. I would like to believe that Debian is capable of showing more respect for other people than including hotbabe in the distribution would indicate. First, I'm not saying that I personally feel that hotbabe should be part of the Debian, but I think that hotbabe demonstrates a larger issue. The problem is that Debian is about freedom of speech. If we start dropping packages just because they are offensive to somebody, we are compromising that ideal. Should we drop the Bible packages because they are offensive to quite a few Islamists? Should we refuse to add a Koran package as it is offensive to some Christians? Remove the fortunes-off because it offends probably quite a large group of people? Yes, hotbabe is sexist (at least in it's current incarnation - if it included a male theme then it would only be sexually offensive to some) and as such should probably be an extra priority package. Even though we shouldn't exclude offensive packages we have the right to make moral judgements and try to keep the higher priorities content-neutral. -- * Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology (T.P) * * PGP public key available @ http://www.iki.fi/killer *
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:30:24PM -0200, Everton da Silva Marques wrote: It's VERY oppressive to force hot-babe out of Debian because of personal feelings about nudity. It's pure anti-speech insanity leading the way to socialism. How is this related to socialism at all ? Frank -- Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. - Brian W. Kernighan
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Michael Dominok [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 09:15, Brian Nelson wrote: Through SPI's presence? Well, i didn't search _that_ long but couldn't find anything on http://www.spi-inc.org that would give me the Impression that this a Organisation only open to USAsians and/or solely dedicated to the USAs national interests. That isn't what Brian Nelson said. What he said was that SPI is present in the United States, meaning that is where it is incorporated.
Re: [OT] God knows what [was Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor]
Russell Coker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm no fan of the Bush Administration's adventures, but there aren't all that many similarities. The current adventure is about oil, about Bush's fantasies that he's promoting democracy, and about domestic American politics, especially Bush's perceived need to look tough. By contrast, the Crusades were motivated much more directly by religion, Talk to someone who lives in those regions and try and convince them that the crusades were based on religion. I'm sorry; I was imprecise. What I meant was that religion was an official justification, but you are quite right that it was hardly the only motivation. My point is that you don't get anywhere by trying to say this is just like the Crusades; there are so many differences that it doesn't help the understanding. Moreover, it makes it harder to effectively fight against the imperialism. By saying it's just like the Crusades, one alienates those who are perfectly aware that it isn't. Much better to just focus on the manifest evil of what's going on, and explain why it's wrong, without trying to draw extremely tenuous historical parallels.
Re: Stress-Testing my Spam filter (Was [OT] God knows what / Re: Bug#283578: ...)
Andreas Tille [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Thomas Bushnell BSG ... and many other wrote: [something about hot-babes, porn etc] Actually, I said nothing about hot-babes or porn.
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
El da 01/12/2004 a 06:28 Steve McIntyre escribio ... Rather than argue about morality, legality, whatever, shouldn't we be considering this in other terms - simple usefulness? Instead of asking why shouldn't this go into Debian?, ask why _should_ this go into Debian?. I completely agree on this, what is the reason/usefulness to have a cpu monitoring program which main feature is to show a naked woman (or man)? Since there are other programs which do the same? does it improves the distribution, user-friendlyness, encourages people to install Debian instead other distros? or ... helps to have Sarge released? We seem to have a growing and worrying trend to pick up any random free software and add it to the distribution without considering whether it's actually useful or not... I do also agree on this and with previous post about a sort of guidelines to determine what are the means to pick a piece of software and put it into the archives (ain't talking about ban-this-and-that DG) regards, Rudy -- ++ | Somos libres, seamoslo con software libre * http://debian.org | ++ | http://www.apesol.org.pe -*- http://stone-head.org | | GPG FP: 0D12 8537 607E 2DF5 4EFB 35A7 550F 1A00 3433 BD21 | ++ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
debian kernel 2.6.9 with selinux enabled!
manoj, thank you. thank you thank you *smooch*. l.
Re: Bug#283717: hasciicam: enhance Description
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi Wouter, first thanks for your explanation, a bit more exhaustive, as well to Christian for his link to the GFDL debate (from another mail). of course i intend to release software free as of speech, so i am evaluating the possibility to remove the invariant sections for your Sarge release (even if the codename sounds a bit too militarised for my taste). to take this decision, i would really like to know what is the FSF position on the GFDL issue, wether that differs from the Debian policy or not. consider that i didn't knew all this at all! in fact i was sarcastic when i named the GFDL invariant section, but here i see more and more that jokes are really not aloud here ;) well i just intended to slow down the arrogance of arguments being thrown at me, still obtaining the inverse effect. anyway it's really not my intention to step over your interpretation of software freedom for such a small detail. well, thanks for taking it easy. and a suggestion: what about including a header or a brief explanation on top of the bugs mailed to upstream authors, to specify that they might not reflect the decisions nor the intentions of Debian developers? if i would have known that beforehand i would have been way less alarmed by lamer-Dan ;) ciao - -- jaromil, dyne.org rasta coder, http://rastasoft.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Cryptographically signed mail, see http://gnupg.org iD8DBQFBrh1tWLCC1ltubZcRAhgbAJ0ReTE2DThd42TJJ6d1bkvftH0aGwCdEVtn HCxD5ApfikcIMWfVDJ/3ICg= =dXzL -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: perl-tk
Re: Carlo U. Segre in [EMAIL PROTECTED] I noticed that a number of perl packages and perl-tk in particular have been orphaned but they do not appear on the wnpp list. Is this beacause they have not been orphaned by the Maintainer himself? Looking at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=wnpp: | #279823: ITA: perl-tk -- Perl module providing the Tk graphics library. | Package: wnpp; Reported by: Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Owned by: Michael Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 26 days old. Christoph -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.df7cb.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Hi, Am Mittwoch, den 01.12.2004, 15:01 -0500 schrieb Rudy Godoy: El da 01/12/2004 a 06:28 Steve McIntyre escribio ... I completely agree on this, what is the reason/usefulness to have a cpu monitoring program which main feature is to show a naked woman (or man)? Since there are other programs which do the same? does it improves the distribution, user-friendlyness, encourages people to install Debian instead other distros? or ... helps to have Sarge released? Well, maybe the user-friendlyness. I had a look (at the program, not only the picures). The blending is pretty nice. Put aside the choise of picutures, the program is worth having in debian as long as someone maintains it. To the pictures - maybe we could avoid the problem by making the thing theme-able, distribute a unproblematic version (e.g. only down to the bikini) along some other nice pictures (sunrise, tree loosing trees). The program could then offer a link to a website where the user can easily download .tar.gz'ed themes which can be installed using drag 'n drop - and everyone would be happy. With regards, nomeata -- Joachim Breitner e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.joachim-breitner.de ICQ#: 74513189 Bitte senden Sie mir keine Word- oder PowerPoint-Anhänge. Siehe http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.de.html -- Joachim nomeata Breitner Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On 30-Nov-04, 11:18 (CST), Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Most* who were Christians. Most of the people in the US were Christians. Most of the slave owners were Christians, and used the same Bible to provide justification. If you're going to give religion credit for the anti-slavery movement, you have to blame it for the slavers as well. Which just shows what others in this thread have said: religion is often used to justify whatever behaviour/belief the individual wants to justify. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net
Re: [OT] God knows what [was Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor]
On 01-Dec-04, 01:16 (CST), Russell Coker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 01 December 2004 16:10, William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:48:48PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: they still have not forgotten or forgiven what the crusaders did while carrying a flag with a red cross on a white background. Plenty of brutality on the other side. (Moorish invasion of Spain.) I guess I'm equally justified in viewing the Crescent as symbol of brutality and butchery? You could. However there is no sign of a repeat of that now so it's less of an issue. Are you claiming that there are NOT, at this time, plenty of people killing random innocents, and waving the Islamic Crescent to justify it? Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you're going to give religion credit for the anti-slavery movement, you have to blame it for the slavers as well. Which just shows what others in this thread have said: religion is often used to justify whatever behaviour/belief the individual wants to justify. You've missed the assymetry. There were both Christian and non-Christian slaveowners. But the abolitionist movement was almost entirely a religious movement. There were plenty of enlightened seculars in the nineteenth century, and they regarded abolitionism as a dangerous enthusiasm; a lawless and anarchistic force which could destroy America. For enlightened seculars, the problem with slavery was that it made it harder for white people to get along with eachother. By contrast, for the religious abolitionists, the problem with slavery was that it was fundamentally unjust and indecent to the slaves. And in that was all the difference. Indeed, even Abraham Lincoln, an enlightened secular if ever there was one, was far more interested in preserving the nation than securing justice for the slaves. Thomas
Re: debian kernel 2.6.9 with selinux enabled!
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 07:45:58PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: manoj, thank you. thank you thank you *smooch*. uh? could you please elaborate a little? ;) cheers dom -[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok --[ http://people.debian.org/~cavok/gpgkey.asc ---[ 3A0F 2F80 F79C 678A 8936 4FEE 0677 9033 A20E BC50
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Thomas Bushnell BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Dominok [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 09:15, Brian Nelson wrote: Through SPI's presence? Well, i didn't search _that_ long but couldn't find anything on http://www.spi-inc.org that would give me the Impression that this a Organisation only open to USAsians and/or solely dedicated to the USAs national interests. That isn't what Brian Nelson said. What he said was that SPI is present in the United States, meaning that is where it is incorporated. Also, with the context that Debian's association with SPI could be interpreted to mean that Debian is a product of the USA and thus subject to trade embargos and other legalities. I have no idea if any government would make that interpretation, but I suppose it's possible... -- For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you!
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 19:57 +0100, Milan P. Stanic wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 06:17:37PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: However, I'd be *highly* agitated if someone gave my daughter a CD-ROM with *any* nudy cartoons. I'd rather live with this risk than with less freedom. Fortunately, that's not an either-or proposition. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I'll call you women instead of girls, just so long as I get paid more than you do. Tom Lehrer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 08:50:08PM +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Even though we shouldn't exclude offensive packages we have the right to make moral judgements and try to keep the higher priorities content-neutral. Moral judgements from a group as large and diverse as Debian are guaranteed to always have conflicting results. No matter what your position on an issue, somebody in the project disagrees with you. Get over it. The only genuinely neutral content is the output of /dev/random; all else is subjective. -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield : :' : http://www.debian.org/ | `. `' | `- -- | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 08:50:08PM +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Yes, hotbabe is sexist (at least in it's current incarnation - if it included a male theme then it would only be sexually offensive to some) Anyone who feels that hot-babe would become less sexually offensive because it included naked male images as well as naked female images really does need to rethink their ideas about offensiveness. Somehow putting more offensive images into a package doesn't strike me as being the way to make something less offensive. Personally, I don't have a problem with the package as-is -- the pictures aren't exactly the most graphic thing that's likely to pop up unannounced in a web-browser window, but the authorities frown on distributing anything tittilating to minors in a lot of places, so I'd vote for making it a series of pictures of a tree shedding it's leaves or something in the default incarnation. - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:46:18 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Put such possibly controversial matter in contrib? No. Contrib is meant for things that depend on stuff that is not free, and is not a dumping ground for stuff yuu do not like. Is contrib on disk 1? If not, then at least disk 1 would be legal anywhere. I think it is perfectly legal to sell disk 1 -- like it is to sell even explicitly pornographic material. Should this be moved to debian-legal? Only if you think distributing the code is illegal. manoj -- He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news. Bertolt Brecht Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Building package creates broken .diff.gz file
Hi, I experienced a strange behaviour when I build a debian package for one of my C libraries. When I run 'dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot' the resulting .diff.gz file has entries like the following: --- pxlib-0.4.2.orig/debian/changelog +++ pxlib-0.4.2/debian/changelog @@ -1 +1,187 @@ -/usr/bin/gpg +pxlib (0.4.2-1) unstable; urgency=low + I wonder where the '-/usr/bin/gpg' comes from. Running 'dpkg-soure -b pxlib' results in a propper diff.gz file. Is anybody else experiencing this or can anybody explain this? I'm runnig an up to date unstable distribution. Uwe -- MMK GmbH, Universitaetsstr. 11, 58097 Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +2331 840446Fax: +2331 843920 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:08:59 -0600, Joe Wreschnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: However, pornography causes significant legal problems in the US, and probably moreso in many other countries. If I give a Debian CD containing this software to a minor, am I distributing pornography? Hmm. I see pictures of nudes by Raphael in some of the national geographic magazines -- and there is nudity in the pictures of the sistine chapel. The old testament of the bible talks about various and sundry unsavoury things, and yet it is given to children even in churches. Let us not get hysterical here. I would ask, for this reason, that the software not be included in Debian main. Hey, I worry about the obscenity which is vi, and I ask that vi not be distributed in debian main. What, is your opinion is worth more than mine? manoj -- There is an order of things in this universe. Apollo, Who Mourns for Adonais? stardate 3468.1 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:33:38 -0600, John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 10:32:37AM +, Tim Cutts wrote: I would ask, for this reason, that the software not be included in Debian main. I think this is a strong argument. But it probably also applies to things like the bible. There are countries in the world where distributing the bible is illegal. It is presumably therefore also illegal to distribute Debian in those countries. If there's going to be a policy of this sort it should be consistent. We can't remove everything from Debian that is illegal some obscure place for some obscure reason. We can't even *know* what these things are, and in this instance, you haven't cited a specific location where the Bible might be banned. China? Myanmar? In a more general sense, whether you are religious or not, there is no denying that the people inspired (for good or ill) by the Bible have left a remarkable impact on human history, influencing everything from the ancient Roman empire to the recent American election and slavery abolition movements in centuries past. There is great historical and literary value there. Even if one doesn't Pornography and prostitution (the oldest profession) have equally affected art and culture. Indeed, pornography is an early adopter, and drives all kinds of innovation in communication. believe the accounts there, it provides context for a great many events in our history on this planet. There is a, IMO legitimate, argument that banning this work would indeed be banning something of value to scholars, researchers, and everyday citizens. As would banning the nudes done by old, dead, flemish paintrers. Oh, these are not wrth what those nudes are, you say. So now it comes down to Debian being an art critic, and saying what nudes constitue art, and what do not. Yes, the package may be in bad taste, in my opinion. But so is vi, also in my opinion. Opinions of bad taste ought not to be deciding factors for inclusion of stuff in main. Such could hardly be said for a stripping CPU monitor, which seems to have no useful purpose at all. Appeals solely to the prurient interest in the words of some American laws. In a few rural Southern counties, I believe it is illegal even for adults to possess such material. In mobile, it is illegal to direct a young white male to a game of pool, so all the pool games in Debian are technically illegal in Mobile. There are a number of locations where gambling is illegal, as are all games of chance. Hmm. Do I see us ripping out the poker games from Debian? How about all them shoot 'em up violent games that lead oiur youth to murder and mayhem? Do we scrap them too? manoj -- Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up. G.K. Chesterton Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wednesday 01 December 2004 01:17, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 01:06 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 01:58:45PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:26 +0100, Eric Lavarde wrote: Hi again, perhaps to bring down the conversation to something more constructive, I think we should base decision to have something or not in Debian: 1. _NOT_ on personal belief (else we would probably end with nothing). 2. _NOT_ on local laws (same comment). But we should be able to pass out Debian disks to children without fear of newspaper stories like A young girl yesterday found pictures of naked women of a Linux computer disk and be able to pass them around in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc without threat of the passer and the passee being beaten or thrown in jail by the Morality Police. Uh. If you live in a country where you could be thrown in jail because someone gave you a CD-ROM containing almost 650MB worth of software of which less than half a meg contains nudity cartoons, I think you have a bigger problem than said nudity. That's beyond the scope of this discussion. However, I'd be *highly* agitated if someone gave my daughter a CD-ROM with *any* nudy cartoons. If you object to her seeing naked women, you better ask your school to let her change in the boys room after sport ;-)
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Joe == Joe Wreschnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joe So what are we going to do with it? Ignoring it, as many here Joe seems to advocate, is pretty dumb. Bashing the USA for stupid Joe laws doesn't solve the problem. An Adult debtag category Joe might, but then do we demand (formal or informal) age Joe verification to download the full Debian CD? And if not, Joe what's the point of that tag? We'd just be distributing Joe *admitted* adult content to minors, then. -- Joe Wreschnig Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] If we did this, we would allow people to create CDs, if they desired, without the offending software. This would solve complaints along the lines of I want to distribute Debian without accidently upsetting parents by distributing Adult software that is useless anyway -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
Hallo Joachim, Am 2004-12-01 21:09:26, schrieb Joachim Breitner: Hi, Well, maybe the user-friendlyness. I had a look (at the program, not only the picures). The blending is pretty nice. Put aside the choise of picutures, the program is worth having in debian as long as someone maintains it. To the pictures - maybe we could avoid the problem by making the thing theme-able, distribute a unproblematic version (e.g. only down to the bikini) along some other nice pictures (sunrise, tree loosing trees). The program could then offer a link to a website where the user can easily download .tar.gz'ed themes which can be installed using drag 'n drop - and everyone would be happy. Agreed. - This is a first class suggestion. With regards, nomeata Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:17:37 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: However, I'd be *highly* agitated if someone gave my daughter a CD-ROM with *any* nudy cartoons. I Would be highly upset if anyone gave my kid a CD-ROM with the bible, or even vi on it. manoj -- If food be the music of love, eat up, eat up. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:39:49 -0600, Joe Wreschnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: That's also beyond the scope of this discussion. which should be entirely about the legal risks and obligations (if any) Debian undertakes when it begins distributing material that may be deemed pornography. -- Joe Wreschnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] You distribute games of chance in large portions of the south you risk going to jail too. And then thereis the violent video game statutes in some counties -- all them scrolling shooter, first person shooters, nethack, rogue -- all may fall under violent video games. Not to mention sex.1 in emacs ;-) manoj -- No, no, I don't mind being called the smartest man in the world. I just wish it wasn't this one. -- Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias, WATCHMEN Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:58:45 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:26 +0100, Eric Lavarde wrote: Hi again, perhaps to bring down the conversation to something more constructive, I think we should base decision to have something or not in Debian: 1. _NOT_ on personal belief (else we would probably end with nothing). 2. _NOT_ on local laws (same comment). But we should be able to pass out Debian disks to children without fear of newspaper stories like A young girl yesterday found pictures of naked women of a Linux computer disk and be able to pass them around in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc without threat of the passer and the passee being beaten or thrown in jail by the Morality Police. Right. We should not have games like quake, doom, or nethack,. since they promoite murder and mayhem and eating of corpses. No scrolling shooter, since they teach our young to kill. And all them games of evil cards and chance, out, I say. No poker. No dice. Ans surely the game of pool is the spawn of satan. Personally, I find Bellamy's pictures quite artistic and not aggressive, but I would say, Women on the list should decide on this one (criteria 5). Can people who use editors decide on whether to keep emacs or vi as well? manoj -- Nothing ever becomes real till it is experienced -- even a proverb is no proverb to you till your life has illustrated it. -- John Keats Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:43:24 +0100, Frank Küster [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 01:06 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 01:58:45PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:26 +0100, Eric Lavarde wrote: But we should be able to pass out Debian disks to children without fear of newspaper stories like A young girl yesterday found pictures of naked women of a Linux computer disk and be able to pass them around in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc without threat of the passer and the passee being beaten or thrown in jail by the Morality Police. Uh. If you live in a country where you could be thrown in jail because someone gave you a CD-ROM containing almost 650MB worth of software of which less than half a meg contains nudity cartoons, I think you have a bigger problem than said nudity. That's beyond the scope of this discussion. However, I'd be *highly* agitated if someone gave my daughter a CD-ROM with *any* nudy cartoons. Then you'd better not bring your daughter to Europe. I am sure she would see much more explicit drawings and photos in the advertisements by the side of the road or on TV. Or to art museums. manoj -- Reality always seems harsher in the early morning. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:57:07 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: In germany games must be rated for distribution to minors. Anything that didn't pay and get itself rated is automatically 18+. So please (NO DONT, irony) remove all games (like tetris, very dangerous to minors) from debian main since they make distributing Debian to minors illegal. Hey, frozen bubble is a menace to society -- think of all the productive hours lost. manoj -- There are twenty-five people left in the world, and twenty-seven of them are hamburgers. -- Ed Sanders Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:01:08 -0600, Joe Wreschnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 13:26, Eric Lavarde wrote: Hi again, perhaps to bring down the conversation to something more constructive, I think we should base decision to have something or not in Debian: 1. _NOT_ on personal belief (else we would probably end with nothing). Agreed. 2. _NOT_ on local laws (same comment). Disagreed. If Debian is illegal to distribute to some important section of people in the world, because we include strange noncritical bits of software (hotbabe, the bible), then we have a real problem. In that portion of the world, sure. DSebian should continue to practice freedom, and hope that those portions of the world get better in time. 4. does it respect basic democratic values? Please demonstrate how vi respects basic democratic values. 5. does it respect other people's belief and personallity? vi does not respect my belief or personality. manoj -- Lack of skill dictates economy of style. Joey Ramone Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Bug#283859: ITP: itagalog -- A Tagalog dictionary for ispell
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: itagalog Version : 0.02 Upstream Author : Ramil Sagum [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : http://borel.slu.edu/crubadan/apps.html * License : GPL Description : A Tagalog dictionary for ispell This is the Tagalog dictionary for ispell to be used to check and correct spelling in Tagalog texts. -- System Information: Debian Release: 3.1 APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.9 Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US (charmap=ISO-8859-1)
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:09:48 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If my wife saw my son with these pictures on a disk that I gave him, she'd take a frying pan and beat me dead. I am sure I would say the same about the bible. Hard enough to raise a child without false gods being preached at to them from the debian cd. Also, all them games of chance should not be there either. Nor all the violent games. No killing of hordes of orcs. orcs were once elves, you know. Disk 1, at least, should be able to be given to anyone on the planet with a computer, without worry of any legal, spousal (or parental, for that matter) grief. oboy. can we get rid of vi from disk 1 then? finally? Let him find girlie pictures on his own. So, you would encourage him to search the wilds of the internet, rather than some tame cartoons in hot-babe? weird. manoj -- A hundred years from now it is very likely that [of Twain's works] The Jumping Frog alone will be remembered. -- Harry Thurston Peck, Jan 1901. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 04:45:27 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 12:30 +0100, Cesar Martinez Izquierdo wrote: El Miércoles 01 Diciembre 2004 04:22, Simon Law escribió: But we don't care about legal problems until somebody is coming to complain to us. That's how Debian is working till the moment. Otherwise it should be impossible to release any software (because software patents, for example). I believe people are complaining _right_ _now_. I meant: when some external people is expressing some legal concerns to Debian in this subject. Like the software patents situations. ASAP, we don't remove patented sofware if we don't know that there will be problems with that patent. I think the point here is that some developers have some moral concerns with this program, and they are trying to find some legal arguments to avoid this program entering in Debian. *No*, that's *not* true. The thought (well mine, at least) is, not in main, not on Disk 1. When you say not in main, it means not in debian. Let them do # apt-get install hot-babe bible-kjv and all will be well. I am not sure we should cater to the repression of freedoms in parochial laws, cause well, you can find a lot of stupid laws in different parts of the world. manoj -- Of course there's no reason for it, it's just our policy. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
Kalle == Kalle Kivimaa [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kalle The problem is that Debian is about freedom of speech. If Kalle we start dropping packages just because they are offensive Kalle to somebody, we are compromising that ideal. Should we drop Kalle the Bible packages because they are offensive to quite a Kalle few Islamists? Should we refuse to add a Koran package as Kalle it is offensive to some Christians? Remove the fortunes-off Kalle because it offends probably quite a large group of people? Everyone has different standards on what is offensive and what is not offensive. However, I get the impression that giving children access to nude pictures is generally considered wrong in a number of different cultures and countries. This is different from the Bible - if you find the bible offensive you don't have to install it. If you don't want your kids to install nude pictures, they might find it on a source you hadn't anticipated (a Debian CD of all things) and install it without your permission. Just as we value freedom in creating Debian, there should also be freedom in being able to distribute it. If Debian were to become known as a CD containing Adult images, especially for the sake of software that has no real purpose, then this could be very damaging, and it could be difficult to repair the damage to our reputation (even if we subsequently removed the software). In much the same way I have seen people get upset when they discover commercially available Windows software comes with free erotic photos (sorry, I can't remember what software now), I think the same applies here. (Admittedly it is worse, IMHO, when it gets installed without your consent). -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 03:30:24PM -0200, Everton da Silva Marques wrote: On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 06:12:21PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2004-12-01 13:16:11, schrieb Fernanda Giroleti Weiden: First of all, it's a sexist package, sure. Putting a program on Debian in which you have pictures of nude women is VERY agressive to the most women. Yes, it's agressive to me. And I was thinking, I am alone... It's VERY oppressive to force hot-babe out of Debian because of personal feelings about nudity. It's pure anti-speech insanity leading the way to socialism. How about we leave it out because it's crap, then? Why stop at cartoons? Once it's themable, we should ship some photographs too. And don't worry about the load monitoring, let's just ship some porn for the sake of it. Call it test data for pornview or something. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 18:01:46 +0100, Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And exhibitioning of naked women only is discrimination... It was suggested in irc to provide instead pictures of male genitalia in various stages of tumescense ... Please feel fre to contribute to free software. manoj -- As well look for a needle in a bottle of hay. Miguel de Cervantes Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:23:10 -0500, William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 12:31:57AM +0100, Thibaut VARENE wrote: Of course, if you can be shocked by nudity, don't use it! I don't think things like this belong in the main distribution. It's funny and all, but it sets a bad precedent and will scare the straights. I don't think vi belongs in debian either, but hey, opinions are like ..., everyone has one. manoj -- Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:17:19 +, Steve McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Rather than argue about morality, legality, whatever, shouldn't we be considering this in other terms - simple usefulness? Instead of asking why shouldn't this go into Debian?, ask why _should_ this go into Debian?. Great idea. I find cpu monitors useful. I find vi useless. We seem to have a growing and worrying trend to pick up any random free software and add it to the distribution without considering whether it's actually useful or not... Yeah, should have nipped the whole vi clone family in the bud. manoj happy to demonstrate that preferences are a bad way to form an inclusion policy -- It's not whether you win or lose but how you played the game. Grantland Rice Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:06:12 -0500, William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 08:51:55PM +0100, Alexander Schmehl wrote: I'm not sure, how »pornography« is defined in the US and I really didn't intend to join your nice discussion, but could you please keep in mind, that it just show rough pixely pictures of a drawn woman? It's designed as soley for the prurient interest. You know it when you see it. The status of justice with her boobs hanging out isn't. This is. It is? Gray areas are when things like hippies have oral sex on stage and call it a play. (That isn't pornography.) Behind the Green Door was an artistic movie that primarily serves to demonstrate a woman deep-throating somebody. That is. It has to do with intent. The intent here is clear. Egad, you're a mind reader, then? manoj -- May a hundred thousand midgets invade your home singing cheesy lounge-lizard versions of songs from The Wizard of Oz. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
