Re: proposal for a more efficient download process
Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is quite unacceptable. We have debs in debian up to 160Mb (packed) and 580Mb unpacked. That would require 2.7 Gb and nearly 10Gb ram respectively. Seems to be quite useless for patching full debs. One would have to limit it to a file-by-file approach. True.. It'd probably only be efficient if the deltas were based on the contents of the .deb's before they're packed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 04:18:15PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 00:50, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le jeudi 25 mai 2006 à 02:36 -0500, Manoj Srivastava a écrit : It has come to my attention that Martin Kraff used an unofficial, and easily forge-able, identity device at a large key signing party recently. FWIW, I'm pretty sure Martin presented me an official German ID card. But should I revoke signatures from developers who showed me a US driver license, a piece of plastic I could fake with my inkjet printer? I'd be inclined to say yes if they look like the new Oregon or California ones due to the lack of security features. OTOH, I live in a region with some of the highest meth consumption in the world, and I have had my identity stolen once. Damn you, social security administration... But what does it matter? Can you spot a fake Victorian drivers' licence? Fake German ID card? Do you know the distinguishing marks that differentiate a real Australian passport from fakes? Daniel, sensing misdirected enthusiasm signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: proposal for a more efficient download process
curt manucredo (hansycm) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: II.B. on the upload and storage side the upload process may need some more changes though (e.g.: for automation). if this ever comes true, there will have to be a period of time where both, the old way and this way have to work, of course. Nope. You will need to keep all normal debs anyway, for new installations. Now the interesting questions: How many diffs do you keep? How do you integrate this approach with the minimal security Release files give us today? What about the kind of signatures dpkg-sig provides? Anyway, this was proposed some times now. Have you actually read the old threads and can explain why your proposal is better and actually works? Why haven't you implemented it yet? Marc -- Fachbegriffe der Informatik - Einfach erklärt (176: NT-Consulter) italienische Ledertreter, Achselschweiß. Erklärt Probleme dadurch, daß man nicht die richtigen Kurse in Unterschleißheim belegt hat und sich dies sofort rächt. (Anders Henke) pgp4ZeDkRde4E.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: proposal for a more efficient download process
Tyler MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is quite unacceptable. We have debs in debian up to 160Mb (packed) and 580Mb unpacked. That would require 2.7 Gb and nearly 10Gb ram respectively. Seems to be quite useless for patching full debs. One would have to limit it to a file-by-file approach. True.. It'd probably only be efficient if the deltas were based on the contents of the .deb's before they're packed. That is pretty much a given anyway imho. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 00:38, Daniel Stone wrote: But what does it matter? Can you spot a fake Victorian drivers' licence? Fake German ID card? Do you know the distinguishing marks that differentiate a real Australian passport from fakes? No, but I also won't sign keys of someone with an ID I don't recognize for the same reason I wouldn't sell alcohol to people with IDs I don't recognize when I worked for the Zoo: It's my reputation (and in the case of alcohol, my legal liability) on the line. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpEBRZQzJOuA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#368985: ITP: mod-bt -- BitTorrent tracker for the Apache2 web server
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:32:06PM -0700, Tyler MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ondrej Sury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 08:07 -0700, Tyler MacDonald wrote: * Package name: mod-bt I suggest to name your package (you can name just binary package, but it since you are building just one binary package, it's easier to rename source package as well) as libapache-mod-bt to follow common practice when packaging apache modules. Ondrej, The source package is named mod-bt. It produces the following .deb's: libbttracker0-dev_0.0.16-1_i386.deb libbtutil0-dev_0.0.16-1_i386.deb There's no reason to have the so version in the -dev package name. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cowbuilder (pbuilder/cowdancer) released
Hi, This is a small note to say that cowbuilder is now released, after some coding and testing at Debconf in Mexico, and on the plane on my way back. To use it, install pbuilder and cowdancer package. apt-get install pbuilder cowdancer Then create the chroot image in /var/cache/pbuilder/base.cow/ with cowbuilder --create You can update this image with cowbuilder --update To build a package, cowbuilder --build XXX.dsc or more simpler pdebuild --pbuilder cowbuilder or even more simpler edit /etc/pbuilderrc to have PDEBUILD_PBUILDER=cowbuilder pdebuild Please share your experience with the world; cowbuilder code is pretty preliminary and doesn't have some features; please do report if you're dying to see a feature so that such feature will be likely to be implemented first. The rough time measurement results are below, in general, package extraction used to take 1 minute for my package building; which is now eliminated to improve speed: pbuilder update time measurement on iBook G4 1GHz: cowbuilder: real0m16.792s user0m4.395s sys 0m3.568s pbuilder: real2m30.573s user0m38.957s sys 0m6.523s pbuilder build time with network down (no package install) on iBook G4 1GHz: cowbuilder: real0m18.694s user0m7.899s sys 0m2.872s pbuilder: real1m20.407s user0m9.688s sys 0m4.142s with network up: (building pbuilder package) cowbuilder: real1m26.027s user0m21.582s sys 0m7.377s pbuilder: real2m57.126s user0m22.255s sys 0m7.961s pbuilder login cowbuilder: real0m4.488s user0m1.039s sys 0m1.393s pbuilder: real1m20.058s user0m4.526s sys 0m3.689s regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED],netfort.gr.jp} Debian Project -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: not running depmod at boot time
On May 27, Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, Im asking to have _one_ delay at a defined point instead of X packages having a delay because they might have to run depmod manualy. This is not a choice, every package which installs modules must run depmod or they will not be available until a reboot. Yes. But no package (besides maybe module-init-tools) should ever run depmod at boot time. This all started because several packages do run They do it at install time if they install modules. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 12:33:54PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Within the Schengen area (European Union plus Norway, Vatican, and... any others?), you travel between countries without even waving your passport at anybody. That's not fully true. You have to show your passport to the *first* country of that area you get into, from there on, you don't (since there is no customs borders between countries there). So, if you get to Europe through France, you have to show your passports in France's airport but then you don't have to if you travel with a car through Germany, the Netherlands, Italy or Spain. Regards Javier signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: cowbuilder (pbuilder/cowdancer) released
On Sam, 27 Mai 2006, Junichi Uekawa wrote: cowbuilder --create Is there a way to create a cowbuilder/pbuilder buildd similar environment, i.e. required + build-essential? I use pbuilder for building my packages and created the build.tgz with --login --save-after-login and kicking out everything with hand... Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining preining AT logic DOT at Università di Siena gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- BRUMBY The fake antique plastic seal on a pretentious whisky bottle. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RFH: problems building against libradius1-dev with libtool-aware packages?
hey folks, the latest upstream version of nagios-plugins has incorporated libtool into the build process, and no longer successfully builds in a pbuilder chroot with the following error: snip /bin/sh ../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -Wall -g -O2 -L. -o check_radius check_radius.o netutils.o utils.o ../lib/libnagiosplug.a ../lib/libcoreutils.a -lnsl -lresolv -lradiusclient -lssl -lcrypto gcc -Wall -g -O2 -o check_radius check_radius.o netutils.o utils.o -L/home/sean/nagiosplug/plugins ../lib/libnagiosplug.a ../lib/libcoreutils.a -lresolv /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.0.2/../../..//.libs/libradiusclient.so -lcrypt -lnsl -lssl -lcrypto -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.0.2/../../..//.libs gcc: /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.0.2/../../..//.libs/libradiusclient.so: No such file or directory make[1]: *** [check_radius] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/sean/nagiosplug/plugins' make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 now, i don't know libtool very well/at all, but it seems the problem is being caused by the .la file shipped with libradius1-dev in /usr/lib/libradiusclient.la. specifically, the following lines: # Is this an already installed library? installed=no um, shouldn't that be yes? i can verify that changing it fixes my compilation problem. so my question to anyone with more libtool experience: - am i correct in thinking this is a bug in libradius1-dev? - is there anything i can do to work around this bug? - or, if i'm incorrect in thinking this is a bug, what are nagios-plugins doing wrong? sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFH: problems building against libradius1-dev with libtool-aware packages?
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 06:42:40AM -0400, sean finney wrote: the latest upstream version of nagios-plugins has incorporated libtool into the build process, and no longer successfully builds in a pbuilder chroot with the following error: The real fix there, is to not install the .la file, ever. It's a world of hurt, and gains us nothing on Debian systems. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFH: problems building against libradius1-dev with libtool-aware packages?
hey daniel, On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:08:36PM +0300, Daniel Stone wrote: The real fix there, is to not install the .la file, ever. It's a world of hurt, and gains us nothing on Debian systems. but considering the fact that i do not maintain radiusclient1, and essentially have no way to implement your suggestion, are there any options? i'm also curious to know if this would be considered a bug in radiusclient1 (and if so, what the severity should be). it also seems like later versions of libtool ( sarge) are able to work around this problem, but specifying this in the build-depends makes things a bit harder for backporting to sarge. also, people will continue to have problems compiling the package (or orig upstream) from source, hence my hoping that there was a better way. sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: cowbuilder (pbuilder/cowdancer) released
Hi, cowbuilder --create Is there a way to create a cowbuilder/pbuilder buildd similar environment, i.e. required + build-essential? I use pbuilder for building my packages and created the build.tgz with --login --save-after-login and kicking out everything with hand... Does the following do what you want? cowbuilder --create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED],netfort.gr.jp} Debian Project -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#369080: ITP: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins -- Extra plugins collection for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Ricardo Mones [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins Version : 2.2.0 Upstream Author : Several authors * URL : http://www.sylpheed-claws.net/plugins.php * License : GPL Programming Lang: C, Perl Description : Extra plugins collection for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer This is a meta package for installing all extra plugins available for the Sylpheed-Claws mailer (GTK2 version). This package provides all extra plugins from upstream tarball. This supersedes current single plugin source packages in the archive, which are: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-etpan-privacy, sylpheed-claws-gtk2-perl-filter, and sylpheed-claws-gtk2-vcalendar-plugin. In addition of these three, the following binary packages are provided: Package: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-feeds-reader Description: Feeds (RSS/Atom) reader plugin for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 The RSSyl plugin provides feeds reading capability for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer. . Supported formats are RSS (1.0, 2.0 and probably 0.9x versions) and Atom feeds. . It integrates also with dillo viewer plugin to allow online browsing of entries, and has per-feed customization features, transforming your Sylpheed-Claws into a powerful lightweight feeds reader. Package: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-mailmbox-plugin Description: mbox format mailboxes handler for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer The mailMBOX plugin for Sylpheed-Claws provides the ability of handling mbox existing files like mailer's native folders using libetpan library. Package: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-maildir-plugin Description: Maildir++ support plugin for the Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer The Maildir++ plugin for Sylpheed-Claws provides direct access to Maildir++ mailboxes used by IMAP servers like Dovecot, BincIMAP or Courier without having all the IMAP overhead of a connection to 'localhost'. Package: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-smime-plugin Description: S/MIME signature/encryption handling for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 This plugin handles S/MIME signed and/or encrypted mails in Sylpheed-Claws. You can decrypt mails, verify signatures or sign and encrypt your own mails. . This plugin doesn't handle signed+encrypted and encryption of multipart messages very well (yet). Package: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-html2-viewer Description: HTML mail/attachment viewer for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer This plugin enables viewing HTML mails and mail attachments within the Sylpheed-Claws message window using the gtkhtml2 widget. Package: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-acpi-notifier Description: Laptop's Mail LED control for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 This plugin for the Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer enables notification of new mail using the mail LED available on some portable computer models from Acer, ASUS, Fujitsu and IBM makers. Package: sylpheed-claws-gtk2-attach-remover Description: Mail attachment remover for Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 This plugin for the Sylpheed-Claws GTK2 mailer provides a way to remove unwanted attachments from received mails. . All attachments are removed from the selected mails, there is no way to preserve an attachment while removing others. -- System Information: Debian Release: testing/unstable APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Kernel: Linux 2.6.14-2-amd64-k8 Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cowbuilder (pbuilder/cowdancer) released
おはよう ございます 上川さん! Junichi Uekawa wrote: cowbuilder --create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd Perfect, thanks a lot, cowbuilder will get some checking with my packages. Best wishes Norbert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 26 May 2006 16:24:27 -0700 Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 15:20, Ron Johnson wrote: Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:45:42PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 25 May 2006 15:26, Mike Hommey wrote: [snip] [0] As long as he doesn't go and vote too, since the people in the voting table would notice that he has voted twice and probably would have to reject the whole voting box of that table (as they would be unable to find and remove the previous voters' vote). Well that's an interesting way to cook an election... Method not viable in all jurisdictions. If you've ever wondered why Oregon takes almost as long as Florida to certify national election results, it's not because we can't count or we've had a blatant attempt at voter's fraud, it's because elections is busy checking signatures on ballot envelopes. Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000: Election Day is actually the last election day of six consecutive weeks we can vote (beat that and your wussy six hours, America!), and we vote at home. You have your option of mailing or handing in your ballot to county elections. Oregon residents that will be outside the state of Oregon on the last day of the election are the only people eligible to register absentee because of this (this is a good thing, since it improves voter turnout and more votes count initially, whereas absentee ballots in all 50 states never get opened unless there's a tie). Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. Jacob -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEeFF5kpJ43hY3cTURAtLcAKCy0mljUzNYIkBTs7ApfzcnSfZGQwCfWww6 +28CMNtPy3/W4CCtr4hue1g= =WAY5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: RFH: problems building against libradius1-dev with libtool-aware packages?
On Sat, 27 May 2006, sean finney wrote: it also seems like later versions of libtool ( sarge) are able to work around this problem, but specifying this in the build-depends makes things a bit harder for backporting to sarge. also, people will continue Backporting using backported build-time tools is often actually required, but you'd have to backport libtool as nobody uploaded one to backports.org yet. Then you could just backport your code using the backported libtool and upload it to backports.org. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On 5/27/06, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 12:33:54PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Within the Schengen area (European Union plus Norway, Vatican, and... any others?), you travel between countries without even waving your passport at anybody. That's not fully true. You have to show your passport to the *first* country of that area you get into, from there on, you don't (since there is no customs borders between countries there). Also, not all of the EU is member of the Schengen treaty. Switzerland recently joined even though they are not member of the EU (though they havn't implemented it yet, there are a number of things Switzerland has to do first). The obvious example is the UK, which insists on checking your passport if you come from the mainland. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:30:23PM +0200, Luca Capello wrote: FYI, Martin's explanation is at [1], which passed on Planet Debian. Thx, bye, Gismo / Luca [1] http://blog.madduck.net/geek/2006.05.24-tr-id-at-keysigning FWIW, I noted down those keys I would *not* sign and didn't tell the people at the KSP that I would not sign them. I guess his experiment only one in ten said that they would *not* sign it is moot unless he backs it up with the signatures he eventually got sent from those he showed a wrong ID to. Yes, that is true. I did the same for some people showing really weird ID like their university cafeteria card. That being said I (personally) already decided not to sign people that showed me something that was *not* a passport and noted that in my KSP paper page through it. Unfortunately, I'm not confindent in my ability to disntiguish forgeries so that means that people: - showing their country's ID card That's idiocy. The German identity card is an officially issued authentication device and substitutes a passport. (Which is true for the whole European Union, so you should know). In fact the identity card (despite the name written on it and the pages holding visa stamps) is almost identical to the passport. (With the exception of very new passports containing additional biometric features.) and not showing any passports or showing passports: - which did not had the *same* spelling as the name in the key (letter by letter) The German passport/ID card has official ASCII transliterations of umlaut names, so if you have discarded signatures on that assumption you didn't read exactly enough. Cheers, Moritz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On 26 May 2006, Christian Pernegger told this: Stop signing keys for Debian developers, since purchased ID's are acceptable in this community? ;) There's a difference between 'purchase' and 'pay for' in this context. I have always had to pay for any kind of ID card, be it passport, citizen's ID or student ID. You make it sound like he bought a *forged* ID, which I'm not sure he did. The question should be who issued the ID, what checks were performed, and do you trust the issuing entity and/or their checks. In this case the issuer was not affiliated with any government body, but they did check his passport before issuing the card. Should you therefore not trust it? I'm not so sure. Only if we take the word of someone who was trying to subvert the keysigning to belavour the obvious that it is easy to get people to sign using purchased ID's. How do you know the claim about the check was not another test to see if he can get away with this? And there are all kinds of people who just hand over an ID, no questions asked, for the appropriate amount of money. And, to the people who have trouble distinguishing between paying for a passport and purchasing an ID, while I have had to pay for all my official identity documents, merely paying would not have got me one -- there were background checks, (Indian police in all the places I had lived in, the FBI and the CIA, etc) -- and no documents would have been issued if any of the checks failed. One can purchase an ID merely by having the right contacts and sufficient money -- which is a different kettle of fish altogether. manoj -- Madness has no purpose. Or reason. But it may have a goal. Spock, The Alternative Factor, stardate 3088.7 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cowbuilder (pbuilder/cowdancer) released
El sáb, 27-05-2006 a las 18:04 +0900, Junichi Uekawa escribió: Hi, This is a small note to say that cowbuilder is now released, after some coding and testing at Debconf in Mexico, and on the plane on my way back. To use it, install pbuilder and cowdancer package. apt-get install pbuilder cowdancer Then create the chroot image in /var/cache/pbuilder/base.cow/ with cowbuilder --create Could this made configurabe as it is in pbuilder? -- Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 03:09:04PM +0200, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 08:00:23PM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: FWIW, I noted down those keys I would *not* sign and didn't tell the people at the KSP that I would not sign them. I guess his experiment only one in ten said that they would *not* sign it is moot unless he backs it up with the signatures he eventually got sent from those he showed a wrong ID to. Don't you think this is at least don't fair to people attending KSP? Not even explaining them why they won't receive your signature (which is the whole point of KSP). Something like I'm sorry but this is unacceptable to me (because of this and that) would be okay to educate people showing correct IDs. That's a good point and I will try to send those people and e-mail explaining why I didn't sign them. I, at least, don't only make the decission on signing or not in the KSP but also based on the experience throughout the Debconf (I might have different protocols for those that I have actually *met* in order to sign their keys). That's why I would not tell those at the KSP, but I might do it afterwards. Regards Javier signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 05:20:59PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:45:42PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 25 May 2006 15:26, Mike Hommey wrote: [snip] [0] As long as he doesn't go and vote too, since the people in the voting table would notice that he has voted twice and probably would have to reject the whole voting box of that table (as they would be unable to find and remove the previous voters' vote). Well that's an interesting way to cook an election... Yes, I guess that political parties (at least in Spain) are quite aware what the turnout of booths are, since voting for a given party is really cross-related to where you actually live [1]. It would be quite easy for a rogue party to force rejections of the booths that *competing* parties would win more with. But this is actually quite OT, isn't it? Regards Javier [1] And your assigned booth for voting is based on which street you live in. You cannot select to vote in any booth. That's so that the people managing voters can have a limited census lists (voters in that booth) and it is easier to prevent duplicate voting, I guess. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 04:04:33PM +0200, Moritz Muehlenhoff wrote: That being said I (personally) already decided not to sign people that showed me something that was *not* a passport and noted that in my KSP paper page through it. Unfortunately, I'm not confindent in my ability to disntiguish forgeries so that means that people: - showing their country's ID card That's idiocy. The German identity card is an officially issued authentication device and substitutes a passport. (Which is true for the whole European Union, so you should know). In fact the identity card (despite the name written on it and the pages holding visa stamps) is almost identical to the passport. (With the exception of very new passports containing additional biometric features.) That is not idiocy. The Spanish identity card is also officially issued [0]. Heck, the new ones now even come with a crypto-chip. That doesn't mean I can expect other people to tell apart a proper Spanish identity card from a fake one [1], and that's why I take my passport to KSPs and don't use my Spanish ID. I guess I think (but might be wrong) that people might be able to trust a passport which is (somewhat) similar to *their* passport (although this is not true for all countries) than to trust an identity card of a country they are unfamiliar with [2] If the assistants to the KSP were only Spanish (or German) citizens I guess that the identity card would be OK for that KSP, as most people should now what it is expected to *look* like. For international KSPs, however, I rather present (and be shown) a passport. Regards Javier [0] You have to pay for it, BTW, just like for the passport, but I guess that does not fit Manoj's definition :-) [1] Specially since ID cards in my country have mutated throughout time and older ID cards are easier to forge than newer cards, but there might be very old ID cards that do not have an expiration date on them and are (to all effects) still valid in Spain. [2] Heck, even the notion of a national ID card is foreign to some countries which do not have any of that kind. How can I expect a UK or US citizen to verify and approve of the ID card of a foreign country? (if they are not familiar with those ID cards, that is) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
list of valid documents for KSPs (was: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys)
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 04:54:19PM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: [snip] Also worth noting that Spanish driving license IDs are on that group. They are just (pink) cardboard with your name written in with a typewriter and your picture *stapled* to it. I believe that has changed now (last year?) and driving licenses now look more official (plastic cards) Is there a list of official documents (with photos) that we can consider acceptable for a KSP?. If there's not we definitely need one. However this is rather tricky because the list itself should be authenticated somehow, with a (gpg)signed photo of the person in charge for it? It seems clear that having the list somehow authoritative creates a chicken-egg problem. filippo -- Filippo Giunchedi - http://esaurito.net PGP key: 0x6B79D401 random quote follows: How do you feel about women's rights? I like either side of them. -- Groucho Marx signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Request for key signing in Shanghai
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stephen Gran wrote: This one time, at band camp, Thomas Goirand said: Hello! Is there somebody in Shanghai from Debian able to check my ID and sign my key? If there is none, is there somebody in Singapore, where I might be able to go? I wouldn't be able to go in Hongkong (because of visa problems) where I could see there was somebody available. I don't know off hand. The list (probably slightly outdated) of people offering key signing is at https://nm.debian.org/gpg_offer.php It's a shame it's not up-to-date. Is there somewhere it's more accurate? I've seen it, and that's why I said there was nobody in Shanghai. In fact I was very surprised that there was nobody in China, as half of the world population is in China... Also, if I've post here, it's because I don't want to wait years until one of the registered developers come over here. Anyway, if one of you wants to come and visit, I can offer a nice bedroom for few nights (for you and your wife/gf). :) Will there be somebody around in Paris or in Florida this summer for signing my key??? (I might travel there...) In order to maintain a single package, you don't really need to be a Debian developer. It is quite possible to work with sponsored uploads, and many people do quite well with that arrangement. I am not trying to discourage you, just pointing out that you may not need to jump through as many hoops as you think just to participate. Take care, I have a lot more than one package to have uploaded. Maybe 10 already. mod_log_sql, sbox, dtc, mysqmail (which is made of 6 packages), etc... Also, it's often updated, and I wouldn't like to depend on somebody to have it uploaded. Of course, I'd be (more than) happy if one of you had the time to work with us, but I don't think there will be one as I've been trying for quite long already to catch the attention of a sponsor for uploading. Thomas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeIThl4M9yZjvmkkRAu8GAJ0e5KCO5Yitw6BMKVUQIf4VZM1sIACcCOu+ U72NwPcer84yzc6/rKUOYtQ= =aKdd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What do you think we get by having the signed ID? What advantages accrue to Debian by having this check that someone's real name is what we think it is? I think it's a good thing, I agree with our practice, but I'm not sure what vast security hole is suddenly opened up here. If we found out that the person who has been a faithful and valuable developer, under the name Martin Krafft is not the real Martin Krafft, what should we do? Go find the real Martin Krafft and make him a developer? I thought the obvious answer here would be to kick this person out of the project for breaching the project's trust. Can you think of a reason why it would be ok for someone to lie to us about their real name? Oh, that's fine, but then I don't see exactly what Manoj is bothered by. It seems like he ought to be on Martin's side here, they are both worried about the same thing: that people are a little too lax in checking IDs', particularly at giant KSPs. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#368985: ITP: mod-bt -- BitTorrent tracker for the Apache2 web server
Mike Hommey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ondrej, The source package is named mod-bt. It produces the following .deb's: libbttracker0-dev_0.0.16-1_i386.deb libbtutil0-dev_0.0.16-1_i386.deb There's no reason to have the so version in the -dev package name. Odd, because my package depends on libapr0-dev (probably going to be libapr0-dev | libapr1-dev soon), and an apt-cache search for 0-dev on my system turns this up: guile-gnome0-dev - Guile GObject binding support library, development files libabz0-dev - Development files for the abz library libadasockets0-dev - bindings for socket services in Ada libannodex0-dev - annotated and indexed media library (develoment files) libapr0-dev - development headers for libapr libapr1.0-dev - The Apache Portable Runtime Library - Development Headers libaprutil1.0-dev - The Apache Portable Runtime Utility Library - Development Headers libaqbanking0-dev - library for online banking applications libart-2.0-dev - Library of functions for 2D graphics - development files libartsc0-dev - development files for the aRts sound system C support library libassa3.4-0-dev - object-oriented C++ networking library libatk1.0-dev - Development files for the ATK accessibility toolkit libbelpic0-dev - belgian eID PKCS11 library, development files libber0-dev - Development files for the BER library libcairomm-1.0-dev - C++ wrappers for Cairo (development files) libcamelbones0-dev - the development files for the CamelBones framework libcapi20-dev - libraries for CAPI support libcdparanoia0-dev - Shared libraries for cdparanoia (development files) libcharles0-dev - Data structure library for Ada95 modelled on the C++ STL libcherokee-base0-dev - extremely fast and flexible web server - development files libcherokee-client0-dev - extremely fast and flexible web server - development files libcherokee-server0-dev - extremely fast and flexible web server - development files libclutils0-dev - Development files needed to compile programs that use clutils. libcoin20-dev - high-level 3D graphics kit - development libcoin40-dev - high-level 3D graphics devkit with Open Inventor and VRML97 support libconfig0-dev - Development files for the config library libcteco5000-dev - Orga Eco 5000 smartcard reader CT-API development files libdancer-xml0-dev - simplistic and non-comformant xml parser library libdbaudiolib0-dev - Communicate to the DBMix audio system (development files) libdbh1.0-dev - Development files for libdbh1.0 libdbi0-dev - Database Independent Abstraction Layer for C (dev files) libdc0-dev - Development libraries for Valknut libdebug0-dev - Development files for the debug library libdisplaymigration0-dev - display migration support for GTK [development] libdlisp0-dev - Simplistic lisp type file parser (development) libdm0-dev - Data Management API static libraries and headers libdmsocket-0.32.5-0-dev - socket utility library -- development files. libdnas-application-0.32.5-0-dev - DNAS application libs -- development files. libdnas-core-0.32.5-0-dev - DNAS core networking library -- development files. libdvdplay0-dev - development files for libdvdplay0 libeid0-dev - library to read identity information from the Belgian eID card - development files libelfg0-dev - an ELF object file access library: development files libelfsh0-dev - The ELF shell library libelk0-dev - development files for libelk0 libesd0-dev - Enlightened Sound Daemon - Development files libfoundation1.0-dev - Development files for libfoundation libg2c0-dev - GNU Fortran 77 library development libgenders0-dev - development files for parsing and querying a genders database libgfortran0-dev - GNU Fortran library development libggigcp0-dev - GGI Color and Palette Manager extension development package libggiwmh0-dev - GGI Window Manager Hints extension development package libgii0-dev - General Input Interface development package libgimp2.0-dev - Headers and other files for compiling plugins for The GIMP libgksuui1.0-dev - a graphical fronted to su library (development files) libglade-bonobo0-dev - Development files for libglade (Bonobo controls support) libglade-gnome0-dev - Development files for libglade (Gnome widgets support) libglade0-dev - Development files for libglade libglib2.0-dev - Development files for the GLib library libgnetwork1.0-dev - networking wrapper library using Glib/GObject (development files) libgnomecups1.0-dev - GNOME library for CUPS interaction (headers) libgnomecupsui1.0-dev - UI extensions to libgnomecups (headers) libgnuift0-dev - libgnuift development files libgnuradio-core0-dev - Software Defined Radio libgnustep-gui0.10-dev - GNUstep Gui header files and static libraries libgpepimc0-dev - category management for GPE applications [development] libgpevtype0-dev - data interchange library for GPE applications [development] libgpib0-dev - C bindings for GPIB (IEEE 488) kernel driver -- headers libgsl0-dev - GNU Scientific Library (GSL) -- development package
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would be more inclined to do that to the people who signed his key based on the Transnational Republic ID. So, who are those people? Is Manoj one of them? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Request for key signing in Shanghai
* Thomas Goirand [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 00:57]: I've seen it, and that's why I said there was nobody in Shanghai. In fact I was very surprised that there was nobody in China, as half of the world population is in China... There are some Debian people in Beijing, and in Nanjing which wouldn't be that terribly far from Shanghai. Will there be somebody around in Paris or in Florida this summer for signing my key??? (I might travel there...) Yes, there are many, in particular in Paris. -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 04:54:19PM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:45:42PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 25 May 2006 15:26, Mike Hommey wrote: I'm pretty sure we can find official IDs that look so lame that you'd think it's a fake Also worth noting that Spanish driving license IDs are on that group. I have always wondered why they are useful in Spain for ID purposes (even for voting in general ellections) since it's a boy's game to unstaple somebody's picture from his driving license and go vote with his ID and your picture in it [0]. Go figure. [0] As long as he doesn't go and vote too, since the people in the voting table would notice that he has voted twice and probably would have to reject the whole voting box of that table (as they would be unable to find and remove the previous voters' vote). Nah, they would just keep the real guy from voting. -- Lionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#368985: ITP: mod-bt -- BitTorrent tracker for the Apache2 web server
On 2006-05-27, Tyler MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Odd, because my package depends on libapr0-dev (probably going to be libapr0-dev | libapr1-dev soon), and an apt-cache search for 0-dev on my The versionings is when stuff change to incompatible APIs, so probably depending on (libfoo0-dev | libfoo1-dev) should not be possible. If there is no change in APIs, there is no need for versioning of the -dev package. You can alwayls add a versioning number on api-change. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 12:33:54PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Within the Schengen area (European Union plus Norway, Vatican, and... any others?), you travel between countries without even waving your passport at anybody. Yes, but that's because the Schengen area is one area in this. You still need proof of being allowed to be in the Schengen area. It is only a change in scale, not in nature. -- Lionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#368985: ITP: mod-bt -- BitTorrent tracker for the Apache2 web server
Sune Vuorela [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Odd, because my package depends on libapr0-dev (probably going to be libapr0-dev | libapr1-dev soon), and an apt-cache search for 0-dev on my The versionings is when stuff change to incompatible APIs, so probably depending on (libfoo0-dev | libfoo1-dev) should not be possible. If there is no change in APIs, there is no need for versioning of the -dev package. You can alwayls add a versioning number on api-change. In APR's case, there are some small incompatibilities in the APIs between version 0 and version 1, but many packages can still compile successfully against either. And yeah, in libbttracker, etc.'s case, I don't plan on changing the soname until there's an incompatibility. Cheers, Tyler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 04:07:22PM +0200, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: The obvious example is the UK, which insists on checking your passport if you come from the mainland. The www.britishembassy.gov.uk website suggests EEA nationals need only an ID card. -- Lionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Manoj Srivastava dijo [Sat, May 27, 2006 at 09:38:00AM -0500]: Only if we take the word of someone who was trying to subvert the keysigning to belavour the obvious that it is easy to get people to sign using purchased ID's. How do you know the claim about the check was not another test to see if he can get away with this? And there are all kinds of people who just hand over an ID, no questions asked, for the appropriate amount of money. Now, Martin has not come out in his own defense because he is travelling in South-Eastern Mexico, and will continue for at least some more days - If he _believes_ in the Transnational Republic as a legitimate political (although unrecognized internationally) body, and he shows his ID card to get the point through, as some sort of propaganda? If he believes the ID to be valid, would that make much of a difference to you? Remember that the ID is just a way to link his face to his name, not to put him under the umbrella of a political regime. And, to the people who have trouble distinguishing between paying for a passport and purchasing an ID, while I have had to pay for all my official identity documents, merely paying would not have got me one -- there were background checks, (Indian police in all the places I had lived in, the FBI and the CIA, etc) -- and no documents would have been issued if any of the checks failed. One can purchase an ID merely by having the right contacts and sufficient money -- which is a different kettle of fish altogether. Again, your experience is quite different from many other people's. Some have already said it's easier for them to get official IDs. For me, yes, some questions asked, some delays involved, but no detailed background checks. I'm sure neither the FBI or the CIA (or, as for Mexican authorities, CISEN or PGR) were involved. -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:03:27PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 13:40, Joe Smith wrote: Apparently the US makes it very clear that US Citizens are not to be pestered at customs OR ELSE. If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Joe probably meant pestered by non-USA customs. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have The US constitution applies only to USA citizens, right? You say you are not US-ian, only Oregonian. So doesn't apply to youN? :-) (The fact that most of the constitution is not applied to foreign national is more a shame than something to be proud of for USA-ians.) -- Lionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On 27 May 2006, Gunnar Wolf verbalised: Manoj Srivastava dijo [Sat, May 27, 2006 at 09:38:00AM -0500]: Only if we take the word of someone who was trying to subvert the keysigning to belavour the obvious that it is easy to get people to sign using purchased ID's. How do you know the claim about the check was not another test to see if he can get away with this? And there are all kinds of people who just hand over an ID, no questions asked, for the appropriate amount of money. Now, Martin has not come out in his own defense because he is travelling in South-Eastern Mexico, and will continue for at least some more days - If he _believes_ in the Transnational Republic as a legitimate political (although unrecognized internationally) body, and he shows his ID card to get the point through, as some sort of propaganda? If he believes the ID to be valid, would that make much of a difference to you? I see you have not actually read his blog. Go back and get the context that this thread started from, before making wildly improbable hypotheses about potential motivations about other people. Remember that the ID is just a way to link his face to his name, not to put him under the umbrella of a political regime. And, to the people who have trouble distinguishing between paying for a passport and purchasing an ID, while I have had to pay for all my official identity documents, merely paying would not have got me one -- there were background checks, (Indian police in all the places I had lived in, the FBI and the CIA, etc) -- and no documents would have been issued if any of the checks failed. One can purchase an ID merely by having the right contacts and sufficient money -- which is a different kettle of fish altogether. Again, your experience is quite different from many other people's. What experience? Some have already said it's easier for them to get official IDs. Cute, but again, wildly irrelevant, and missing the point entirely. No one is claiming anything about relative ease of getting official or purchased identification documents. I am sure the degrees of difficulty vary with governments, and the quality of the purchased documentation, and various and sundry other factors not quite relevant to this discussion. For me, yes, some questions asked, some delays involved, but no detailed background checks. I'm sure neither the FBI or the CIA (or, as for Mexican authorities, CISEN or PGR) were involved. Then some government organizations do not take as stringent a set of precautions as others do. That, by itself, is an unsurprising statement. manoj -- Its name is Public Opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gnome 1 packages up for adoption
I have been maintaining the following gnome-1 support packages: bonobo gal0.x gnome-libs gnome-print gtkhtml gwrapguile imlib libcapplet libglade oaf I have been doing so because gnucash (which I maintain) was the last major gnome-1 package, and the gnome maintainers (quite reasonably) did not want to maintain gnome-1 anymore. However, there are a significant number of packages based on gnome-1 which are still in Debian, quite a few of which still see active maintenance. So I believe that it would be premature to remove the gnome-1 libraries from Debian. Indeed, I am not sure I agree with them being in oldlibs, given the existence of this many packages which use them, especially since it is not some kind of trivial matter in general to update a program to use gnome-2. But that's not my determination to make. However, I will not be willing to maintain these support packages once the gnome-2 gnucash migrates into testing. Other than normal get-into-testing transition issues, the blocker for that is the upstream release of gnucash 2.0, which is expected in the next several weeks. At that point, I will be orphaning all these packages. I stress, however, that it would not be appropriate to remove the packages without communication with all the folks who are currently depending upon them. If someone wants to undertake that task, I welcome them to it! To repeat, in executive summary: * There are many gnome-1 support packages, which I maintain, which are still widely used in Debian; * I am filing an RFA for these packages today; * Once gnucash 2.0 migrates into testing, I will be orphaning these packages; * It is not appropriate to delete these packages without speaking to the maintainers who are currently depending on them. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:03:27PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 13:40, Joe Smith wrote: Apparently the US makes it very clear that US Citizens are not to be pestered at customs OR ELSE. If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Joe probably meant pestered by non-USA customs. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have The US constitution applies only to USA citizens, right? Wrong You say you are not US-ian, only Oregonian. So doesn't apply to youN? :-) Wrong again. (The fact that most of the constitution is not applied to foreign national is more a shame than something to be proud of for USA-ians.) An incorrect conclusion reached from false premises. The constitution mostly deals with the enumeration and the limits of the pwoers of the various branches of the government. Voting is indeed restricted to citizens, but nothing else really says citizen in the text. The bill of rights apply to people (like, Amendment III applies to foreign owners of property as well), not just citizens. I find your assumption of shameful conduct without even an iota of research disturbing, and it leads more to the value one should place in statements made by you in the future than anything else. manoj -- Good teaching is one-fourth preparation and three-fourths good theatre. Gail Godwin Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
Lionel Elie Mamane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (The fact that most of the constitution is not applied to foreign national is more a shame than something to be proud of for USA-ians.) But then, as it happens, it does apply to foreign nationals who are under the jurisdiction of the United States. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: not running depmod at boot time
#include hallo.h * Marco d'Itri [Sat, May 27 2006, 11:29:32AM]: This is not a choice, every package which installs modules must run depmod or they will not be available until a reboot. Yes. But no package (besides maybe module-init-tools) should ever run depmod at boot time. This all started because several packages do run They do it at install time if they install modules. No, they don't. At least my packages call it only if `uname -r` == target version. When you drop the depmod run, and someone installs a new kernel together with accompanying module packages and only THEN reboots, the modules.dep* files won't be updated. I don't think that depmod --quick (aka -A) slows down the boot process that much. Could you show real numbers please? Unfortunately there is no good workaround because we have to deal with a dimension out of our control, the user. Eduard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Friday 26 May 2006 18:34, Russ Allbery wrote: You can get a passport. Yeah, if I really want to give a country I don't really have much of any allegence to, and consider foreign, my money and wait around for a few months. I'm Oregonian, not American. I know, I'm with you on that and didn't have one for years. I'm an Oregonian living in California. But they *are* useful for things like this. -- Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:03:27PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 13:40, Joe Smith wrote: Apparently the US makes it very clear that US Citizens are not to be pestered at customs OR ELSE. If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Joe probably meant pestered by non-USA customs. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have The US constitution applies only to USA citizens, right? Wrong I've been imprecise, because - as shocking as it may seem to you - that email was not a thoroughly researched, serious email, but trying to poke fun at John. And because the imprecision better served the purpose of my poking fun. If we are gonna get serious on this, I'd say something along the lines of the constitutional rights enjoyed by certain classes of people, such as aliens and minors, is restricted compared to what is enjoyed by 'normal' people. And in support of that, I'd quote decisions of the Supreme Court of the USA like: BOARD OF ED. OF INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DIST.NO. 92 OF POTTAWATOMIE CTY. v. EARLS No. 01-332. Argued March 19, 2002--Decided June 27, 2002 RENO, ATTORNEY GENERAL v. AMERICAN-ARAB ANTI-DISCRIMINATION COMMITTEE No. 97-1252. Argued November 4, 1998--Decided February 24, 1999 Obviously, in our current moral framework,some restrictions of constitutional rights given to aliens are completely OK. Such as ... err voting rights? Some of the actual restrictions in place I agree with. Some others I disagree. I do think that it is a very dangerous idea for the future of one's free society to have whole generations raised in the understanding that searches of private areas by authorities without probable cause is OK. That's a tiny step in how you raise / educate a generation that will tend towards accepting a intrusive government. But then, I've been known to hold extreme views on children's right. The relevance of this to Debian development? I see none whatsoever right now. You say you are not US-ian, only Oregonian. So doesn't apply to you? :-) Wrong again. There was a smiley... Of the I'm making a devilish remark here kind. That sentence was poking fun at Paul, not more. I find your assumption of shameful conduct without even an iota of research disturbing, and it leads more to the value one should place in statements made by you in the future than anything else. You should feel completely free (and justified in doing so) in ignoring any statement I make jokingly. That's the nature of jokingly made statements, after all. -- Lionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Request for key signing in Shanghai
On Sun, May 28, 2006 at 12:57:10AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote: Will there be somebody around in Paris or in Florida this summer for signing my key??? (I might travel there...) There will probably be some DD in Paris this summer, AFAICT. Me , at least. Cheers, -- Julien Danjou .''`. Debian Developer : :' : http://julien.danjou.info `. `' http://people.debian.org/~acid `- 9A0D 5FD9 EB42 22F6 8974 C95C A462 B51E C2FE E5CD signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 11:34, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:03:27PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 13:40, Joe Smith wrote: Apparently the US makes it very clear that US Citizens are not to be pestered at customs OR ELSE. If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Joe probably meant pestered by non-USA customs. No, that's not the case, the US doesn't really give a damn what happens to you once you're outside the country or how customs treats you in foreign countries. The US State Department so much as says this. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have The US constitution applies only to USA citizens, right? You say you are not US-ian, only Oregonian. So doesn't apply to youN? :-) Well, until Oregon gains independence, it's an awkward situation. It's not like the border guard had any way to know I'm for the Oregon Territory's independence or cede to Canada. Given this was at the Washington/BC line, it's not impossible that the border guard only did that job for the money and had similar sentiments. (The fact that most of the constitution is not applied to foreign national is more a shame than something to be proud of for USA-ians.) The fact that the constitution does not apply to it's own nationals is something America should be ashamed of. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpSgKKbNFIQf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 06:17, Jacob S wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000: Election Day is actually the last election day of six consecutive weeks we can vote (beat that and your wussy six hours, America!), and we vote at home. You have your option of mailing or handing in your ballot to county elections. Oregon residents that will be outside the state of Oregon on the last day of the election are the only people eligible to register absentee because of this (this is a good thing, since it improves voter turnout and more votes count initially, whereas absentee ballots in all 50 states never get opened unless there's a tie). Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. No, that's not how it works, your ballot is still secret. Think about it for a minute. You sign the mailing envelope, your ballot goes in a secrecy envelope. Elections compares signatures, opens the mailing envelope and saves it for the voter rolls, sends the secrecy envelope down the line off to the counting machines to be opened separately in some other room. And if you still don't like it, you don't have to live here, everybody else already beat you to the punch. Oregon's full. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpukUZBWuxR7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 12:32, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Lionel Elie Mamane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (The fact that most of the constitution is not applied to foreign national is more a shame than something to be proud of for USA-ians.) But then, as it happens, it does apply to foreign nationals who are under the jurisdiction of the United States. That's not what the courts have said during my lifetime, IIRC... -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgp143bbBNO04.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:54:03PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000 Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. No, that's not how it works, your ballot is still secret. Think about it for a minute. You sign the mailing envelope, your ballot goes in a secrecy envelope. Elections compares signatures, opens the mailing envelope and saves it for the voter rolls, sends the secrecy envelope down the line off to the counting machines to be opened separately in some other room. That is secrecy only to the government; not in general. For instance, someone can easily pressure you into voting for party or candidate X, _since they can verify it_ (just watch as you put the ballot in the envelope, and make sure you post it). With a voting booth, nobody can effectively pressure you, as your vote is secret from everybody. Anyhow, this is rapidly very very offtopic. /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] list of valid documents for KSPs (was: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys)
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:28:35PM +0200, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: Is there a list of official documents (with photos) that we can consider acceptable for a KSP?. If there's not we definitely need one. However this is rather tricky because the list itself should be authenticated somehow, with a (gpg)signed photo of the person in charge for it? It seems clear that having the list somehow authoritative creates a chicken-egg problem. Not meaningful. Individual KSP participants are still free to apply their own personal standards for ID verification; attempting to standardize them likely just means fewer KSP participants in the future. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: not running depmod at boot time
On May 27, Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not a choice, every package which installs modules must run depmod or they will not be available until a reboot. Yes. But no package (besides maybe module-init-tools) should ever run depmod at boot time. This all started because several packages do run They do it at install time if they install modules. No, they don't. At least my packages call it only if `uname -r` == target version. When you drop the depmod run, and someone installs a new kernel together with accompanying module packages and only THEN reboots, the modules.dep* files won't be updated. I don't think that depmod So your packages should be fixed to call depmod $KVERSION. --quick (aka -A) slows down the boot process that much. Could you show real numbers please? You should ask the people who proposed this. Unfortunately there is no good workaround because we have to deal with a dimension out of our control, the user. No, we can expect users to run depmod after manually installing modules, because this is the procedure which has been documented since forever. Users anyway tend to not manually build modules for a different kernel than the one they are running, so they know that they can run depmod -a and use the new modules without the need to reboot. So far I think we only need to know how many packages like your exist. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 13:41, Russ Allbery wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Friday 26 May 2006 18:34, Russ Allbery wrote: You can get a passport. Yeah, if I really want to give a country I don't really have much of any allegence to, and consider foreign, my money and wait around for a few months. I'm Oregonian, not American. I know, I'm with you on that and didn't have one for years. I'm an Oregonian living in California. But they *are* useful for things like this. My condolences on getting suckered into California. Hopefully you can make it back out soon. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpm3Ib7HUEFM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 10:19, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would be more inclined to do that to the people who signed his key based on the Transnational Republic ID. So, who are those people? Is Manoj one of them? Martin has yet to name names. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpgRerw78yxN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Dear Manoj, dear fellow DDs, I guess I could have known that this experiment of mine would turn into a huge thread, unfortunately extending across two mailing lists. Thus, it is surely in order for me to apologise for being the cause that your inboxes filled up. I have said most of what I wanted to say in my blog entry [0], even though I could have articulated and backed up my arguments a bit better. I will try to do better this time, but it will be my only message to this thread, unless the subject of followups is changed and indicates an actually relevant topic (at which point in time it's a new thread...). Please note, however, that I am leaving Mexico tomorrow and will be away from my mail more or less until Monday. 0. http://blog.madduck.net/geek/2006.05.24-tr-id-at-keysigning First of all, my name is Martin Felix Krafft (with a final 't'), and my GPG key ID is 0x330c4a75. The unofficial ID I presented listed that name (without the middle name), a photo is available from [1] (sorry, can't do better now). Thus, the ID card is an unofficial card, but the identity it claims is my real identity, not a fake one. To me, this is an important distinction in the context of this discussion. 1. http://madduck.net/~madduck/scratch/tr-id.jpg Key numbers 1-102, as well as 123-140 got to see my unofficial ID (if they were present). Those who didn't accept the ID surely remember being showed an official one I had in my pocket. I have indicated in my blog posting that GPG allows you to revoke signatures from keys, and I included that information exactly because I wanted to make it easier for people to undo the signing if they felt cheated. In any case, it should be the decision of each and every individual whether to revoke his/her signatures on my key. A public call as in this case is especially inappropriate IMHO, because noone can actually define the proper baseline for identity verification at keysigning parties. For your information, to date, not a single signature has been revoked. Before I respond to a few of the issues and questions raised in the thread, let me present my view of the problem. I would like to thank my travelling companions for helping me straighten it out. The Debian project heavily relies on keysigning for much of its work. However, I think the question what the signing of a key actually accomplishes has not been properly addressed. In my opinion, from the point of view of the Debian project, a person's actual identity (as in the name on your birth certificate) matters very little; the Debian project does not actively interfere with a person's real life in such a way as to require the birth certificate identity (legal cases, liability issues, etc.). Moreover, it's rather trivial in several countries of this world to change your official name. In this context, even the claim that in the case of a trust abuse, your reputation throughout the FLOSS community (and the rest of the Internet) should be properly tarnished, does not stand, IMHO. From within the project, what matters is that everything you do within the project can be attributed to one and the same person: the same person that went through our NM process. The GPG key is one technical measure to allow for this form of identification. Its purpose is not, as Micah Anderson states, a means to confirm the validity of a government-issued ID. This brings me to a point which Andreas Schuldei nicely stated at the beginning of the thread (as did others throughout): I do not need an ID to identify martin, so i dont need to rely on his (forged or real) passport or other id from him in order to sign his key. If you did not know him before you should not sign his key (if your judgement was based on the unofficial ID). When Andreas signs my ID, he voices his trust in that I am who I claim to be, and he does so not because I presented him with an ID with the claimed name, but because we've interacted many times before. In that line, Gunnar's point stands: Maybe we should just drop holding KSPs, and fall back to the traditional method of Hey, nice dinner we had yesterday. Say, now that you know me, my family and my history, would you like to sign my key as well? - Signing for people you actually know, not just linking In my eyes, this is exactly what a keysigning is and should be all about: a statement of familiarity with a person, nothing more and nothing less. And as a project, we should either accept that, or find a better way to identify our developers. So what to do in this very situation? Should you revoke your signature from my key (or not even sign it in the first place)? Should you revoke or refuse signatures to all participants, because some claim the keysigning party to have been subverted? I think the answer to both cases should be: no, unless you have not previously known the person whose key you wish to sign. That's exactly what makes this decision very subjective, and a public call such as the original post
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 10:19:57AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would be more inclined to do that to the people who signed his key based on the Transnational Republic ID. So, who are those people? Is Manoj one of them? It seems that I am one of them. After the fact, I do have a vague recollection of being presented an ID of unusual issuance, which may or may not have been Martin's; and I am told I did not ask for a second ID as I should have. Clearly, there is serious doubt that my ID checking standards that day were what they should have been, whether due to fatigue, or a feeling of being rushed due to the format, or other factors. I am grateful to Martin for bringing this to my attention, though I suppose others won't feel the same way given that it's my intention now to revoke all signatures I issued based on that KSP barring exceptional cases in which I can explicitly recall enough details of the signee's ID to confirm that I have checked it correctly. I am not asserting that I should be able to detect any and all forgeries of official IDs; that's definitely beyond my mortal means. But I should not be accepting forms of ID that I can't actually *recognize*, and for forms that I *do* recognize, there are almost universally legal penalties for forging such documents. There is no law against private-issue IDs with a person's name and picture on them, which means that if I allow myself to sign a key based on such ID, the cost to a potential attacker to get into the web of trust -- even the Debian web of trust, not the global web of trust in general -- is way too low, way lower than the cost that any of us should be able to enforce if we prioritize security over keyrankings the way we ought to. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#368985: ITP: mod-bt -- BitTorrent tracker for the Apache2 web server
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 11:14:44AM -0700, Tyler MacDonald wrote: Sune Vuorela [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Odd, because my package depends on libapr0-dev (probably going to be libapr0-dev | libapr1-dev soon), and an apt-cache search for 0-dev on my The versionings is when stuff change to incompatible APIs, so probably depending on (libfoo0-dev | libfoo1-dev) should not be possible. If there is no change in APIs, there is no need for versioning of the -dev package. You can alwayls add a versioning number on api-change. In APR's case, there are some small incompatibilities in the APIs between version 0 and version 1, but many packages can still compile successfully against either. And yeah, in libbttracker, etc.'s case, I don't plan on changing the soname until there's an incompatibility. You're missing the point that sonames track *ABI* changes, and -dev package names should track *API* changes. Typically, upstreams make API changes on new major releases; ABI changes can happen much more often than this. Tracking sonames in your -dev package names is therefore wrong and (inevitably, eventually) causes gratuitous churn for any packages build-depending on yours. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
And, to the people who have trouble distinguishing between paying for a passport and purchasing an ID, while I have had to pay for all my official identity documents, merely paying would not have got me one -- there were background checks, There were none at all in my case, as outlined above. Austrian passports can not, IMHO, be trusted because of this. If my own country does not do proper checks, maybe others don't, either. Bottom line is that you can't trust *any* kind of ID, because it might be either faked or issued negligently. I don't see where the difference is between a passport and a TR ID card. I build trust in RL based on people and their behavior, not on ID's. Maybe all my friends are living under a fake name... I do not know nor care. As long as the work signed with a particular key is in order, everything is fine - why chase names? C. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane spake thusly: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:03:27PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 13:40, Joe Smith wrote: Apparently the US makes it very clear that US Citizens are not to be pestered at customs OR ELSE. If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Joe probably meant pestered by non-USA customs. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have The US constitution applies only to USA citizens, right? Wrong I've been imprecise, because - as shocking as it may seem to you - that email was not a thoroughly researched, serious email, but trying to poke fun at John. And because the imprecision better served the purpose of my poking fun. If we are gonna get serious on this, I'd say something along the lines of the constitutional rights enjoyed by certain classes of people, such as aliens and minors, is restricted compared to what is enjoyed by 'normal' people. And in support of that, I'd quote decisions of the Supreme Court of the USA like: BOARD OF ED. OF INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DIST.NO. 92 OF POTTAWATOMIE CTY. v. EARLS No. 01-332. Argued March 19, 2002--Decided June 27, 2002 And demonstrate again that you fail to do proper research. The background: This is what the fourth amendment says: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. In the decision being bandied around, the supreme court held that held that Tecumseh’s Policy is a reasonable means of furthering the School District’s important interest in preventing and deterring drug use among its schoolchildren and does not violate the Fourth Amendment. The searches conducted were held to nbe reasonable. Nowhere does anything in the case say anything about the children in question being or not being citizens, whish is what you are trying, and failing, to find support for. RENO, ATTORNEY GENERAL v. AMERICAN-ARAB ANTI-DISCRIMINATION COMMITTEE No. 97-1252. Argued November 4, 1998--Decided February 24, 1999 Residency and voting are the two things that are indeed restricted to citizens, and rightly so. ALl this case did was to talk about whether an alien unlawfully in this country does not have a constitutional right to continue to remain in the country when the authorities have, according to the law, have commenced proceedings, adjudicated cases, and are executing removal orders. If you are gonna say that the constitutional rights of residence and franchise do not apply to non-citizens, well, duh. If this is your argument, then I wish you good day, I have no desire to waste more time on such ..., well, drivel. Obviously, in our current moral framework,some restrictions of constitutional rights given to aliens are completely OK. Such as ... err voting rights? Bullshit. ALl this demonstrates is that you have not really read the fourth amendment language, and are spouting off on things you have little knowledge, and less research, upon. Some of the actual restrictions in place I agree with. Some others I disagree. I do think that it is a very dangerous idea for the future of one's free society to have whole generations raised in the understanding that searches of private areas by authorities without probable cause is OK. That's a tiny step in how you raise / educate a generation that will tend towards accepting a intrusive government. But then, I've been known to hold extreme views on children's right. Reasonable searches in public areas are indeed OK. My carry on luggage is subject to search any time I board a flight. My person, and anything I carry, is subject to search any time I enter a federal building. If you think that these are somehow unconstitutional, I suggest you go and educate yourself on the issue. manoj -- The way of the world is to praise dead saints and prosecute live ones. Nathaniel Howe Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 15:27, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 25 May 2006 08:30, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Given time, one can pay more attention to each document (I require at least two photo ID's issued by the government). WTF? In Oregon, if you have a driver's license, you cannot get an ID card. If you have an ID card, you have to surrender it to get a driver's license. You're only legally allowed one ID. Expand your horizon beyond that of the DMV. There is no ID issuing authority recognized in Oregon higher than the DMV. So, Oregon state officials won't recognize your US passport as a valid picture ID? That's a load of crap. You know it, and everyone on this list knows it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeNKBS9HxQb37XmcRAjm7AKCHtwsvJliaF4KsqNwITJRvFofxgQCglvqm RlOZqHgisMn/fyVUt7JiWF0= =RpH8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 18:34, Russ Allbery wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thursday 25 May 2006 08:30, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Given time, one can pay more attention to each document (I require at least two photo ID's issued by the government). WTF? In Oregon, if you have a driver's license, you cannot get an ID card. If you have an ID card, you have to surrender it to get a driver's license. You're only legally allowed one ID. You can get a passport. Yeah, if I really want to give a country I don't really have much of any allegence to, and consider foreign, my money and wait around for a few months. I'm Oregonian, not American. Since there is no such thing as citizenship in a state, does I'm ... not American mean that you are voluntarily revoking your in this imperfect country? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeNN9S9HxQb37XmcRAnINAKDI5HJVnUIGeOJy578cfR2oCYP5GgCfY/zz wjb9DLyLWIguY+dt2MCM+hc= =8RfS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#368985: ITP: mod-bt -- BitTorrent tracker for the Apache2 web server
Am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2006 00:00 schrieb Steve Langasek: and -dev package names should track *API* changes To be more precise: incompatible API changes. If the current API is simply extended by some new function, the -dev package keeps its numbered name. HS pgpwQExhAEWsj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: gnome 1 packages up for adoption
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 12:00:43PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: I have been maintaining the following gnome-1 support packages: bonobo gal0.x gnome-libs gnome-print gtkhtml gwrapguile imlib libcapplet libglade oaf gwrapguile and gtkhtml have no reverse-dependencies in Debian except for gnucash. python-gnome has a build-dependency on libgtkhtml-dev which should be trivially removable since none of its binary packages use it. I would suggest filing for removal of these two packages directly, rather than orphaning them at all. Likewise, guppi is a QA-maintained package with no reverse-deps aside from gnucash, and several other chains of packages also look like we should consider removing them once the above-mentioned packages are gone. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 13:40, Joe Smith wrote: Apparently the US makes it very clear that US Citizens are not to be pestered at customs OR ELSE. If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have by searching my vehicle without probable cause, without my consent, again. Welcome to the land of the free! Now shut off the engine, step out of the vehicle and submit to an illegal search to go home! In one post you write, I am not an American, but in another you assert your rights as an American citizen. Make up your mind, or move to Canada. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeNWPS9HxQb37XmcRAnqLAKC15LbHEKWAEQlRQ2uptZV16c4/HACfYjcB L40ohRlJ1InNwTn5cAZ4nS8= =AqmL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gnome 1 packages up for adoption
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 12:00:43PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: I have been maintaining the following gnome-1 support packages: bonobo gal0.x gnome-libs gnome-print gtkhtml gwrapguile imlib libcapplet libglade oaf gwrapguile and gtkhtml have no reverse-dependencies in Debian except for gnucash. python-gnome has a build-dependency on libgtkhtml-dev which should be trivially removable since none of its binary packages use it. I would suggest filing for removal of these two packages directly, rather than orphaning them at all. I mistakenly included gwrapguile in my list, actually. It's not a gnome package at all, and my intention has always been to get rid of it directly once gnucash is out. Likewise, guppi is a QA-maintained package with no reverse-deps aside from gnucash, and several other chains of packages also look like we should consider removing them once the above-mentioned packages are gone. I agree. However, I'm not an expert on how to efficiently answer these questions (indeed, whenever I use rdepends I get a lot of spurious entries, and I don't know why, and it requires gobs of manual work to figure out which ones are real). In any case, this message is only a heads up, so that when gnucash does transition, the correct thing for each package can be done without further ado. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 12:32, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Lionel Elie Mamane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (The fact that most of the constitution is not applied to foreign national is more a shame than something to be proud of for USA-ians.) But then, as it happens, it does apply to foreign nationals who are under the jurisdiction of the United States. That's not what the courts have said during my lifetime, IIRC... I can pretty much guarantee you that if the FBI breaks down the door of a legal resident alien, there had better be compelling evidence for such action, otherwise a federal judge would toss all out all evidence collected. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeNeeS9HxQb37XmcRAhoRAKCJBMylZ5954npve+Ec7W2Vv0mYUACfYbM+ P6RMxwYZnEqhrz11alkveAo= =+eXB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Saturday 27 May 2006 12:32, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Lionel Elie Mamane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (The fact that most of the constitution is not applied to foreign national is more a shame than something to be proud of for USA-ians.) But then, as it happens, it does apply to foreign nationals who are under the jurisdiction of the United States. That's not what the courts have said during my lifetime, IIRC... Provide the citation, please. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have by searching my vehicle without probable cause, without my consent, again. Welcome to the land of the free! Now shut off the engine, step out of the vehicle and submit to an illegal search to go home! Actually, the United States Constitution does not prohibit such searches at points of entry. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:19:21PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane spake thusly: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: The US constitution applies only to USA citizens, right? Wrong I've been imprecise, because - as shocking as it may seem to you - that email was not a thoroughly researched, serious email, but trying to poke fun at John. And because the imprecision better served the purpose of my poking fun. If we are gonna get serious on this, I'd say something along the lines of the constitutional rights enjoyed by certain classes of people, such as aliens and minors, is restricted compared to what is enjoyed by 'normal' people. And in support of that, I'd quote decisions of the Supreme Court of the USA like: BOARD OF ED. OF INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DIST.NO. 92 OF POTTAWATOMIE CTY. v. EARLS No. 01-332. Argued March 19, 2002--Decided June 27, 2002 And demonstrate again that you fail to do proper research. The background: This is what the fourth amendment says: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. In the decision being bandied around, the supreme court held that held that Tecumseh’s Policy is a reasonable means of furthering the School District’s important interest in preventing and deterring drug use among its schoolchildren and does not violate the Fourth Amendment. The searches conducted were held to nbe reasonable. That's precisely the issue. The standards of reasonable are different for minors than they are for 'normal' people. RENO, ATTORNEY GENERAL v. AMERICAN-ARAB ANTI-DISCRIMINATION COMMITTEE No. 97-1252. Argued November 4, 1998--Decided February 24, 1999 Residency and voting are the two things that are indeed restricted to citizens, and rightly so. ALl this case did was to talk about whether an alien unlawfully in this country does not have a constitutional right to continue to remain in the country when the authorities have, according to the law, have commenced proceedings, adjudicated cases, and are executing removal orders. What it says is that he/she cannot argue that the removal proceedings are being selectively enforced against him/her because of his/her opinions and speech, thereby nullifying these rights for this class of people. -- Lionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 14:12, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:54:03PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000 Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. No, that's not how it works, your ballot is still secret. Think about it for a minute. You sign the mailing envelope, your ballot goes in a secrecy envelope. Elections compares signatures, opens the mailing envelope and saves it for the voter rolls, sends the secrecy envelope down the line off to the counting machines to be opened separately in some other room. That is secrecy only to the government; not in general. For instance, someone can easily pressure you into voting for party or candidate X, _since they can verify it_ (just watch as you put the ballot in the envelope, and make sure you post it). With a voting booth, nobody can effectively pressure you, as your vote is secret from everybody. Nobody can effectively pressure you, except everyone else in line, campaigners trolling the polling place, and the inability to get the day off to vote because polling places are only open 4-6 hours on election day. If you want to ignore that vote by mail is more secure than the voting booth, that's fine. Don't move to Oregon. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgprNrKdLfni3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:19:21PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane spake thusly: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: [snip] That's precisely the issue. The standards of reasonable are different for minors than they are for 'normal' people. Minors are *normal*. They are not *adults*. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeNrBS9HxQb37XmcRAuf9AKDvKNse2DfFROwwwddMPAGnxa7hnACdEZ6W oPOj7cmQaPM/AWL79IbUTqY= =sxPm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 04:07:22PM +0200, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: The obvious example is the UK, which insists on checking your passport if you come from the mainland. Passport or ID Card, that is. The www.britishembassy.gov.uk website suggests EEA nationals need only an ID card. A Passport is often recommended regardless. It doesn't get stamped. Thiemo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Debian GNU/MINIX
On Sunday 28 May 2006 00:59, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote: That would be me. I've done a lot of compiling of packages over the past few months but avoided the hard parts of a full port also my build machine has become severely limited in disk space. Next week I'm getting a replacement and at that time I'll tidy things up and hopefully start making faster progress. I found out about your project from this comp.os.minix thread Debian GNU/Minix: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.minix/browse_thread/thread/071f327ff19606c6/ , but when i went to the 'Preventa' link i found an old date (1 January 2006). Roman Ignatov [EMAIL PROTECTED] , GTk to minix porter said to me in an email I want ported library qt on Minix. But when I will begin this do, I can not say. I think GTk and Qt porting to minix have many things in comon with your task and I encourage you to talk with him. Also feel free to add posts to the comp.os.minix in that thread about your status! When Debian/Minix is ready(with QT and KDE) I will switch from Debian/Linux immediatly! Keep up the good work! Guys like you help free software to rise above the rest! -- http://zvonsully.home.ro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 14:12, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:54:03PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000 Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. No, that's not how it works, your ballot is still secret. Think about it for a minute. You sign the mailing envelope, your ballot goes in a secrecy envelope. Elections compares signatures, opens the mailing envelope and saves it for the voter rolls, sends the secrecy envelope down the line off to the counting machines to be opened separately in some other room. That is secrecy only to the government; not in general. For instance, someone can easily pressure you into voting for party or candidate X, _since they can verify it_ (just watch as you put the ballot in the envelope, and make sure you post it). With a voting booth, nobody can effectively pressure you, as your vote is secret from everybody. Nobody can effectively pressure you, except everyone else in line, campaigners trolling the polling place, and the inability to get the day off to vote because polling places are only open 4-6 hours on election day. If you want to ignore that vote by mail is more secure than the voting booth, that's fine. Don't move to Oregon. With vote-by-mail from the privacy (and seclusion) of your home, who's to stop a political operative or angry husband from saying vote Democrat, or else!? Campaigners trolling the polling place is supposed to be illegal (well, it's illegal in Louisiana), and if a campaigner *does* troll a polling place, the election observer from the opposite party will report it, and she/he will have many witnesses. There are no neutral observers in your house. The husband can watch who she votes for and beat her, or she can withhold sex if he doesn't vote for whom she wants. Since the rest of the country votes in private, my wife could be voting Marxist for all I know. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeNzZS9HxQb37XmcRAq1jAKCaCL0YRiZ7TPRGQl/L1ISPru2fCwCdGXTp hMRGuvRvAkqzEmioScSDhb8= =sYlG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 15:28, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 15:27, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 25 May 2006 08:30, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Given time, one can pay more attention to each document (I require at least two photo ID's issued by the government). WTF? In Oregon, if you have a driver's license, you cannot get an ID card. If you have an ID card, you have to surrender it to get a driver's license. You're only legally allowed one ID. Expand your horizon beyond that of the DMV. There is no ID issuing authority recognized in Oregon higher than the DMV. So, Oregon state officials won't recognize your US passport as a valid picture ID? No, I'm saying that passports are utterly useless as ID in Oregon because nobody trusts them for anything more than proof of age for cigarettes or alcohol. That's a load of crap. You know it, and everyone on this list knows it. Try using a passport as ID in Oregon sometime. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpo50JPXWyKn.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 15:41, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 13:40, Joe Smith wrote: Apparently the US makes it very clear that US Citizens are not to be pestered at customs OR ELSE. If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have by searching my vehicle without probable cause, without my consent, again. Welcome to the land of the free! Now shut off the engine, step out of the vehicle and submit to an illegal search to go home! In one post you write, I am not an American, but in another you assert your rights as an American citizen. Make up your mind, or move to Canada. We voted to become Canadian at the Vote of Champoeg. The US couldn't handle that fact and strongarmed the issue militarily. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgppMCyB4JvSR.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 15:32, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 18:34, Russ Allbery wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thursday 25 May 2006 08:30, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Given time, one can pay more attention to each document (I require at least two photo ID's issued by the government). WTF? In Oregon, if you have a driver's license, you cannot get an ID card. If you have an ID card, you have to surrender it to get a driver's license. You're only legally allowed one ID. You can get a passport. Yeah, if I really want to give a country I don't really have much of any allegence to, and consider foreign, my money and wait around for a few months. I'm Oregonian, not American. Since there is no such thing as citizenship in a state, does I'm ... not American mean that you are voluntarily revoking your in this imperfect country? The vote at champoeg was when the Oregon Territory voted to become Canadian. We're on the south side of the border exclusively due to the threat of military force when the US couldn't handle the fact that we don't want them here the first time around. That's not democracy, that's coercion. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgp4RZWal678Y.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 15:52, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have by searching my vehicle without probable cause, without my consent, again. Welcome to the land of the free! Now shut off the engine, step out of the vehicle and submit to an illegal search to go home! Actually, the United States Constitution does not prohibit such searches at points of entry. The US constitution makes no such exception. If it did, it would say, Void at customs. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpqzK2S74jna.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 16:03, Ron Johnson wrote: Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:19:21PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane spake thusly: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: [snip] That's precisely the issue. The standards of reasonable are different for minors than they are for 'normal' people. Minors are *normal*. They are not *adults*. The US constitution does not say, Void if you're a minor. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpqB6os0qJ0L.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 03:41:58PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 14:12, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:54:03PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000 Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. No, that's not how it works, your ballot is still secret. Think about it for a minute. You sign the mailing envelope, your ballot goes in a secrecy envelope. Elections compares signatures, opens the mailing envelope and saves it for the voter rolls, sends the secrecy envelope down the line off to the counting machines to be opened separately in some other room. That is secrecy only to the government; not in general. For instance, someone can easily pressure you into voting for party or candidate X, _since they can verify it_ (just watch as you put the ballot in the envelope, and make sure you post it). With a voting booth, nobody can effectively pressure you, as your vote is secret from everybody. Nobody can effectively pressure you, except everyone else in line, campaigners trolling the polling place, and the inability to get the day off to vote because polling places are only open 4-6 hours on election day. None of these people are in the voting booth with you and they are therefore not in a position to verify the vote you cast and punish you for it. If you want to ignore that vote by mail is more secure than the voting booth, that's fine. Don't move to Oregon. If you want to make facile arguments, that's fine. But don't do it on debian-devel. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: cowbuilder (pbuilder/cowdancer) released
Dear Uekawa-san, On Sam, 27 Mai 2006, Junichi Uekawa wrote: Please share your experience with the world; cowbuilder code is pretty preliminary and doesn't have some features; please do report if you're 12 hours ago I initialized a buildd cowbuilder. Now I wanted to upgrade it: cowbuilder --update and this wanted to update coreutils from 5.96-1 to -2. I got two warnings: Warning: cowdancer: unsupported operation, read-only open and fchown/fchmod: 771:1226435 Does this mean that the update failed in some way? Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining preining AT logic DOT at Università di Siena gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- Rome wasn't burned in a day. --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BACK TO -DEVEL
He guys! On Sam, 27 Mai 2006, Paul Johnson wrote: In one post you write, I am not an American, but in another you assert your rights as an American citizen. Make up your mind, or move to Canada. We voted to become Canadian at the Vote of Champoeg. The US couldn't handle that fact and strongarmed the issue militarily. I guess it is enough, we don't want to know more about stupidities and IDs and US and Canada and voting and all this. CAN WE PLEASE STOP THIS OFF-TOPIC RUBBISH! Either discuss key-signing parties, or please go somewhere else with this. Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining preining AT logic DOT at Università di Siena gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- AHENNY (adj.) The way people stand when examining other people's bookshelves. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
On Saturday 27 May 2006 16:12, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 14:12, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:54:03PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000 Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. No, that's not how it works, your ballot is still secret. Think about it for a minute. You sign the mailing envelope, your ballot goes in a secrecy envelope. Elections compares signatures, opens the mailing envelope and saves it for the voter rolls, sends the secrecy envelope down the line off to the counting machines to be opened separately in some other room. That is secrecy only to the government; not in general. For instance, someone can easily pressure you into voting for party or candidate X, _since they can verify it_ (just watch as you put the ballot in the envelope, and make sure you post it). With a voting booth, nobody can effectively pressure you, as your vote is secret from everybody. Nobody can effectively pressure you, except everyone else in line, campaigners trolling the polling place, and the inability to get the day off to vote because polling places are only open 4-6 hours on election day. If you want to ignore that vote by mail is more secure than the voting booth, that's fine. Don't move to Oregon. With vote-by-mail from the privacy (and seclusion) of your home, who's to stop a political operative or angry husband from saying vote Democrat, or else!? The fact you can go to the police, and you can vote wherever you please. If you're really that concerned about it, you can go down to county elections, say your ballot got lost in the mail or tell them that someone else coerced you (which voids the original ballot's mailing envelope, and if that mailing envelope gets cast, they void the ballot it contains) and they'll give you a fresh ballot and envelopes. You're welcome to vote at the elections office, but if you want privacy you're going to have to lock yourself in a restroom. Penalties for screwing with other people's votes here are severe. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpyylAosTFDX.pgp Description: PGP signature
openssl will block bacula into etch?
Hello, Looking on packages.qa.debian.org, I'm seeing some confusing information and am hoping someone can help me figure out what's going on. The bacula page lists a depends on openssl, which is accurate, and says not considered -- which I guess means that bacula can't be considered for migration to testing. The openssl page says Not touching package, as requested by freeze. I have no idea what that means, or if it impacts bacula. Any thoughts? Thanks, -- John Goerzen Author, Foundations of Python Network Programming http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590593715 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: openssl will block bacula into etch?
On 5/27/06, John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Looking on packages.qa.debian.org, I'm seeing some confusing information and am hoping someone can help me figure out what's going on. The bacula page lists a depends on openssl, which is accurate, and says not considered -- which I guess means that bacula can't be considered for migration to testing. The openssl page says Not touching package, as requested by freeze. I have no idea what that means, or if it impacts bacula. Any thoughts? It happens when the release team block the transition (sid-testing) for some reason. Ask in -release if nobody replies. regards, -- stratus
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
Ron Johnson writes: Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:19:21PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane spake thusly: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: [snip] That's precisely the issue. The standards of reasonable are different for minors than they are for 'normal' people. Minors are *normal*. They are not *adults*. Guys, this discussion may well be interesting to you, but has wandered well away from the original topic and has *nothing* to do with Debian development. Please take it to private mail if you feel you need to continue... -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] C++ ate my sanity -- Jon Rabone -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Saturday 27 May 2006 15:52, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If only that were true. The Americans give me hell. Canada practically waves me through. Last time I drove back to Oregon, US customs decided that it was appropriate to violate the rights the US constitution claims I have by searching my vehicle without probable cause, without my consent, again. Welcome to the land of the free! Now shut off the engine, step out of the vehicle and submit to an illegal search to go home! Actually, the United States Constitution does not prohibit such searches at points of entry. The US constitution makes no such exception. If it did, it would say, Void at customs. Have you read the relevant case? Maybe you should answer the arguments in the opinion instead of pretending it was never given. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Saturday 27 May 2006 16:03, Ron Johnson wrote: Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:19:21PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane spake thusly: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: [snip] That's precisely the issue. The standards of reasonable are different for minors than they are for 'normal' people. Minors are *normal*. They are not *adults*. The US constitution does not say, Void if you're a minor. But the standards of reasonable are different for minors than for adults. Right? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The vote at champoeg was when the Oregon Territory voted to become Canadian. We're on the south side of the border exclusively due to the threat of military force when the US couldn't handle the fact that we don't want them here the first time around. That's not democracy, that's coercion. Does it matter any more? Surely the opinions of a majority of *present day* Oregonians matters a whole lot more, right? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gnome 1 packages up for adoption
* Thomas Bushnell BSG [Sat, 27 May 2006 15:49:41 -0700]: Hi Thomas, (indeed, whenever I use rdepends I get a lot of spurious entries, and I don't know why, and it requires gobs of manual work to figure out which ones are real). One scenario in which it does not work: http://chistera.yi.org/~adeodato/blog/debian/07_evil_apt-cache_rdepends.html I really recommend that you spend a few minutes learning to use grep-dctrl / grep-available, which will give you the exact set of packages you ask for. HTH, -- Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es Debian Developer adeodato at debian.org Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can read. -- Mark Twain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 16:12, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 14:12, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:54:03PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000 Oh, so they get better counts and less fraud by doing away with ballot secrecy. How wonderful. No, that's not how it works, your ballot is still secret. Think about it for a minute. You sign the mailing envelope, your ballot goes in a secrecy envelope. Elections compares signatures, opens the mailing envelope and saves it for the voter rolls, sends the secrecy envelope down the line off to the counting machines to be opened separately in some other room. That is secrecy only to the government; not in general. For instance, someone can easily pressure you into voting for party or candidate X, _since they can verify it_ (just watch as you put the ballot in the envelope, and make sure you post it). With a voting booth, nobody can effectively pressure you, as your vote is secret from everybody. Nobody can effectively pressure you, except everyone else in line, campaigners trolling the polling place, and the inability to get the day off to vote because polling places are only open 4-6 hours on election day. If you want to ignore that vote by mail is more secure than the voting booth, that's fine. Don't move to Oregon. With vote-by-mail from the privacy (and seclusion) of your home, who's to stop a political operative or angry husband from saying vote Democrat, or else!? The fact you can go to the police, and you can vote wherever you please. If you're really that concerned about it, you can go down to county elections, say your ballot got lost in the mail or tell them that someone else coerced you (which voids the original ballot's mailing envelope, and if that mailing envelope gets cast, they void the ballot it contains) and they'll give you a fresh ballot and envelopes. You're welcome to vote at the elections office, but if you want privacy you're going to have to lock yourself in a restroom. Penalties for screwing with other people's votes here are severe. That's after-the-fact. Eliminate the possibility by voting in a private booth. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeO4FS9HxQb37XmcRApVsAJ9YRsKag6F0t5+axbWxyA0BTdhWVgCfb7ZS gy3xo+3MkiptXVGcrDkGniw= =S8s9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Langasek wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 03:41:58PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 14:12, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 01:54:03PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Oregon abolished the voting booth in 2000 [snip] If you want to ignore that vote by mail is more secure than the voting booth, that's fine. Don't move to Oregon. If you want to make facile arguments, that's fine. But don't do it on debian-devel. Stop agreeing with me, Steve, the earth might shift out of orbit! :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEeO5bS9HxQb37XmcRAj8aAKCVB6QzY2BrjtN+ra7YoqnWIdJTQwCeOMq+ QN8auNuPzS4/ykxlOL93OyA= =TflP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cowbuilder (pbuilder/cowdancer) released
Hi, Please share your experience with the world; cowbuilder code is pretty preliminary and doesn't have some features; please do report if you're 12 hours ago I initialized a buildd cowbuilder. Now I wanted to upgrade it: cowbuilder --update and this wanted to update coreutils from 5.96-1 to -2. I got two warnings: Warning: cowdancer: unsupported operation, read-only open and fchown/fchmod: 771:1226435 Does this mean that the update failed in some way? It's just a warning, so the update has not failed. This is in fact the weakest part of cowdancer; and cowdancer does not really cover this case of fchown/fchmod, which means sometimes the COW does not work and the owner/permission of the original tree may get affected. In practice, this has not been causing too much real-life problems, and thus decided to release cowbuilder. regards, junichi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED],netfort.gr.jp} Debian Project -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Saturday 27 May 2006 15:28, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 26 May 2006 15:27, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 25 May 2006 08:30, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Given time, one can pay more attention to each document (I require at least two photo ID's issued by the government). WTF? In Oregon, if you have a driver's license, you cannot get an ID card. If you have an ID card, you have to surrender it to get a driver's license. You're only legally allowed one ID. Expand your horizon beyond that of the DMV. There is no ID issuing authority recognized in Oregon higher than the DMV. So, Oregon state officials won't recognize your US passport as a valid picture ID? No, I'm saying that passports are utterly useless as ID in Oregon because nobody trusts them for anything more than proof of age for cigarettes or alcohol. That's a load of crap. You know it, and everyone on this list knows it. Try using a passport as ID in Oregon sometime. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/driverid/idproof.shtml http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/driverid/idproofprim.shtml Acceptable Primary Documents # Passport * Must be in English or contain an English translation within the document; * Acceptable up to 5 years after expiration; # An Oregon Concealed Weapons Permit/Concealed Handgun License; -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEePCwS9HxQb37XmcRAmOsAKCwYEBL2sF4ZD6eZCg7xqfX2wiCYQCeJTPh Zh+w7iwSfrDwOR3yvT2z9tQ= =xGxM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please revoke your signatures from MartinKraff's keys
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Saturday 27 May 2006 16:03, Ron Johnson wrote: Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:19:21PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane spake thusly: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On 27 May 2006, Lionel Elie Mamane stated: [snip] That's precisely the issue. The standards of reasonable are different for minors than they are for 'normal' people. Minors are *normal*. They are not *adults*. The US constitution does not say, Void if you're a minor. But the standards of reasonable are different for minors than for adults. Right? Everywhere but Oregon. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEePDsS9HxQb37XmcRAiW9AJ4/GpAMH2QcdTfDRveyUSgxZiimkgCgklt1 qSrVSEzCNj91iXA/TzJA0/w= =iawE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] list of valid documents for KSPs (was: Please revoke your signatures from Martin Kraff's keys)
Steve Langasek dijo [Sat, May 27, 2006 at 02:12:48PM -0700]: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:28:35PM +0200, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: Is there a list of official documents (with photos) that we can consider acceptable for a KSP?. If there's not we definitely need one. However this is rather tricky because the list itself should be authenticated somehow, with a (gpg)signed photo of the person in charge for it? It seems clear that having the list somehow authoritative creates a chicken-egg problem. Not meaningful. Individual KSP participants are still free to apply their own personal standards for ID verification; attempting to standardize them likely just means fewer KSP participants in the future. There is something, though, that I think would be a worthy addition to future KSPs, if we continue to hold them: Many of us have our photo as part of our key. Maybe if the printed sheet was not plain-text but included those photos that are available, it would be at least a slight improvement? Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Debconf-discuss] list of valid documents for KSPs
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 05:28:35PM +0200, Filippo Giunchedi wrote: Is there a list of official documents (with photos) that we can consider acceptable for a KSP?. If there's not we definitely need one. However this is rather tricky because the list itself should be authenticated somehow, with a (gpg)signed photo of the person in charge for it? It seems clear that having the list somehow authoritative creates a chicken-egg problem. Not meaningful. Individual KSP participants are still free to apply their own personal standards for ID verification; attempting to standardize them likely just means fewer KSP participants in the future. But then again people could lookup say mexican IDs and visas before going to a KSP in mexico so they have some clue what it should look like. If you take the list as informative instead of as exclusive it can have meaning. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: openssl will block bacula into etch?
Gustavo Franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 5/27/06, John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Looking on packages.qa.debian.org, I'm seeing some confusing information and am hoping someone can help me figure out what's going on. The bacula page lists a depends on openssl, which is accurate, and says not considered -- which I guess means that bacula can't be considered for migration to testing. The openssl page says Not touching package, as requested by freeze. I have no idea what that means, or if it impacts bacula. Any thoughts? It happens when the release team block the transition (sid-testing) for some reason. Ask in -release if nobody replies. regards, -- stratus Any source that builds udebs is always frozen (openssl builds libcrypto0.9.8-udeb). Udebs have to be moved into testing manualy and without the freeze the source+deb and udeb versions would drift apart. Another reason for this is so that the Debian-installer have a consistent set of udebs to work with. You have to ask -release to hint openssl in if the bacula change is important. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#368985: ITP: mod-bt -- BitTorrent tracker for the Apache2 web server
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're missing the point that sonames track *ABI* changes, and -dev package names should track *API* changes. Typically, upstreams make API changes on new major releases; ABI changes can happen much more often than this. Tracking sonames in your -dev package names is therefore wrong and (inevitably, eventually) causes gratuitous churn for any packages build-depending on yours. OK, so it sounds like this is what you are saying: Since this is the first public API *and* ABI, both counters should start at zero. - When the API becomes incompatible (which would implicitly make the ABI incompatible), both the -dev and library package should increment their numbers. - When the ABI becomes incompatible without affecting the API, only the library package should increment it's number. Is that right? Thanks, Tyler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
