Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Michael Stummvoll]

> The 'ip' command is in /bin/ip and always available in PATH.  It is
> the currently recommended swiss-army chainsaw network tool.  Give it a
> try.
> 
>   $ ip addr show
> Or:
>   $ ip addr show eth0
> 
> And of course you can add the sbins to your PATH in .profile so that
> you have what you want always.  (I always add the sbin's to my PATH.)
> 
> Bob

Hi,

what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)? Both tools provide similar
functions for both root-users and non-root-user. I think that should be
more consistent. (which way to make it consistent is another point,
though)

Kind Regards,
Michael


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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Bob Proulx]

Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> You can't imagine how much I blame Debian each time I have to type the
> full path "/sbin/ifconfig" as a non-root user on virtual servers to just
> know the IP address the DHCP server assigned to the machine.

The 'ip' command is in /bin/ip and always available in PATH.  It is
the currently recommended swiss-army chainsaw network tool.  Give it a
try.

  $ ip addr show
Or:
  $ ip addr show eth0

And of course you can add the sbins to your PATH in .profile so that
you have what you want always.  (I always add the sbin's to my PATH.)

Bob


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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Russ Allbery]

Ulrich Dangel  writes:

> A similar solution was discussed some time ago by merging all the /bin
> and /sbin directories together (based on the UsrMove from Fedora) but
> the discussion wasn't really productive iirc.

Wasn't that discussion about merging /bin and /usr/bin?  Or did we also
have the discussion about /bin and /sbin?

This is exactly the sort of global change that Debian kind of sucks at,
but I don't like using that as an excuse to not do it.  I'd rather find
ways to get better at it.

> Changing only the PATH is also less intrusive compared to merging
> /{s,}bin and /usr/{s,}bin.

Sure, certainly true.  But, assuming that we have a consensus that the
distinction no longer matters and just causes extra work (something that
I'm inclined to agree with but that I don't think we can assume we've
decided on yet), I hate to see us doing the expedient thing because doing
the right thing is too hard.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Ulrich Dangel]

On 08/08/12 04:15, Russ Allbery wrote:

>> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin,
>> nor /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/
>> or /usr/sbin the full path must be specified.
> 
> I don't see any point in doing this as opposed to just moving everything
> from sbin into bin and making sbin a symlink to bin.  If we're going to
> add them both to the PATH, that means there's no longer any effective
> difference, and we should make that explicit.

A similar solution was discussed some time ago by merging all the /bin and /sbin
directories together (based on the UsrMove from Fedora) but the discussion 
wasn't
really productive iirc.

Changing only the PATH is also less intrusive compared to merging /{s,}bin and
/usr/{s,}bin. But if there is a consent for it, sure let's merge the 
directories.

Ulrich



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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Ulrich Dangel]

On 08/08/12 04:11, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>> Changing the default PATH for normal users to include /sbin, /usr/sbin as 
>> well as
>> /usr/local/sbin would be a great thing for simplifying command line usage for
>> normal users.
> Fedora did it a few months ago, so probably we should do it as well to 
> minimize the pain.

As far as I know (based on  
/
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SbinSanity ) Fedora changed it in 2008.

It seems that Ubuntu also has the sbin directories in PATH per default (via
/etc/environment) since at least 2006.

Ulrich



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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez]

On 08/08/12 03:16, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
> /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or 
> /usr/sbin
> the full path must be specified.
> 
> Some programs don't necessarily need root privileges like blkid, iwconfig,
> ifconfig, service etc. and can be partially useful for the normal user.
> 
> If a program requires root privileges, sudo is nowadays a standard solution  
> (the
> debian installer even automatically installs sudo undder specific 
> circumstances).
> To run a program as root with sudo the user must specify the correct path, 
> e.g.
> sudo /usr/sbin/visudo instead of just sudo visudo or su -c visudo.
> 
> Changing the default PATH for normal users to include /sbin, /usr/sbin as 
> well as
> /usr/local/sbin would be a great thing for simplifying command line usage for
> normal users.
> 
> If /sbin, /usr/sbin and /usr/local/sbin are added at the end of the PATH there
> should be no problems for existing environments if there are programs with the
> same name in /sbin and /bin…
> 
> I know that these changes are late in the release cycle so I suggest to make 
> the
> changes for Jessie.
> 

I think this is a great idea :)

You can't imagine how much I blame Debian each time I have to type the
full path "/sbin/ifconfig" as a non-root user on virtual servers to just
know the IP address the DHCP server assigned to the machine.



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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Russ Allbery]

Ulrich Dangel  writes:

> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin,
> nor /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/
> or /usr/sbin the full path must be specified.

I don't see any point in doing this as opposed to just moving everything
from sbin into bin and making sbin a symlink to bin.  If we're going to
add them both to the PATH, that means there's no longer any effective
difference, and we should make that explicit.

Let's not create another halfway situation that makes no sense in its own
right and exists only because we can't make up our mind between two
mutually-exclusive alternatives.  Either it makes sense to separate root
commands from regular user commands or it doesn't.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 08, Ulrich Dangel  wrote:

> Changing the default PATH for normal users to include /sbin, /usr/sbin as 
> well as
> /usr/local/sbin would be a great thing for simplifying command line usage for
> normal users.
Fedora did it a few months ago, so probably we should do it as well to 
minimize the pain.

> If /sbin, /usr/sbin and /usr/local/sbin are added at the end of the PATH there
> should be no problems for existing environments if there are programs with the
> same name in /sbin and /bin…
I do not think that this is an actual problem, and if it were then it 
should be fixed: when sbin is in the path it has always been before 
other directories, so changing this only for some cases would be confusing.
Just use the same path for all users.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Ulrich Dangel]

On 08/08/12 03:54, Clint Adams wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:48:48AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
>> So ignore the sudo part as it should be no problem. The bash completion even
>> changes PATH to contain the sbin directories for sudo but zsh seems to honor 
>> PATH
>> and doesn't extend to check for programs.
> 
> Perhaps you have changed your /etc/zsh/zshrc or you aren't enabling
> the modern completion system.

Ah yes ☹ I am using Grmls zshrc which doesn't contain the zstyle for changing 
the
behavior. With the zstyle (in Debians default zshrc)

zstyle ':completion:*:sudo:*' command-path /usr/local/sbin /usr/local/bin \
 /usr/sbin /usr/bin /sbin /bin /usr/X11R6/bin

the completion works with zsh as well.


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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Clint Adams]

On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:48:48AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> So ignore the sudo part as it should be no problem. The bash completion even
> changes PATH to contain the sbin directories for sudo but zsh seems to honor 
> PATH
> and doesn't extend to check for programs.

Perhaps you have changed your /etc/zsh/zshrc or you aren't enabling
the modern completion system.


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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Ulrich Dangel]

On 08/08/12 03:27, The Fungi wrote:

> Are you certain? For me, 'ifconfig' as a normal user returns
> "command not found" but 'sudo ifconfig' works just fine...

I was based on my experiments[1]. But I discovered that my
/etc/sudoers didn't contain following config line:

Defaults   secure_path
"/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/

So ignore the sudo part as it should be no problem. The bash completion even
changes PATH to contain the sbin directories for sudo but zsh seems to honor 
PATH
and doesn't extend to check for programs.

Ulrich

[1]
$ echo $PATH
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games
$ sudo visudo
sudo: visudo: command not found
$ export 
PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/sbin:/usr/sbin
$ sudo visudo
visudo: /etc/sudoers.tmp unchanged




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Re: Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[The Fungi]

On 2012-08-08 03:16:59 +0200 (+0200), Ulrich Dangel wrote:
[...]
> To run a program as root with sudo the user must specify the
> correct path, e.g. sudo /usr/sbin/visudo instead of just sudo
> visudo or su -c visudo.
[...]

Are you certain? For me, 'ifconfig' as a normal user returns
"command not found" but 'sudo ifconfig' works just fine...
-- 
{ IRL(Jeremy_Stanley); WWW(http://fungi.yuggoth.org/); PGP(43495829);
WHOIS(STANL3-ARIN); SMTP(fu...@yuggoth.org); FINGER(fu...@yuggoth.org);
MUD(kin...@katarsis.mudpy.org:6669); IRC(fu...@irc.yuggoth.org#ccl); }


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Change default PATH for Jessie / wheezy+1

[Ulrich Dangel]

Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
/usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or /usr/sbin
the full path must be specified.

Some programs don't necessarily need root privileges like blkid, iwconfig,
ifconfig, service etc. and can be partially useful for the normal user.

If a program requires root privileges, sudo is nowadays a standard solution  
(the
debian installer even automatically installs sudo undder specific 
circumstances).
To run a program as root with sudo the user must specify the correct path, e.g.
sudo /usr/sbin/visudo instead of just sudo visudo or su -c visudo.

Changing the default PATH for normal users to include /sbin, /usr/sbin as well 
as
/usr/local/sbin would be a great thing for simplifying command line usage for
normal users.

If /sbin, /usr/sbin and /usr/local/sbin are added at the end of the PATH there
should be no problems for existing environments if there are programs with the
same name in /sbin and /bin…

I know that these changes are late in the release cycle so I suggest to make the
changes for Jessie.

cheers,
Ulrich


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Guillem Jover]

Hi!

On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 15:37:11 +0200, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> The following package pairs:
> 1) are co-installable,
> 2) both ship binaries with the same name, but in different
> directories within $PATH (e.g. one in /usr/bin, another in
> /usr/sbin):

Ralf Treinen has been running automated tests [0] for file overwrite
conflicts among packags in the archive; Ralf (CCed), maybe you might
be interested in covering conflicts over different pathnames too?

  [0] 

regards,
guillem


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Bug#684222: ITP: libfile-data-perl -- interface to file data

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard 

* Package name: libfile-data-perl
  Version : 1.16
  Upstream Author : Richard Foley 
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/File-Data/
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : interface to file data

 File::Data wraps all the accessing of a file into a convenient set of
 calls for reading and writing data, including a simple regex interface.


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 August 2012 14:37, Jakub Wilk  wrote:
> The following package pairs:
> 1) are co-installable,
> 2) both ship binaries with the same name, but in different directories
> within $PATH (e.g. one in /usr/bin, another in /usr/sbin):
>
> sethdlc: ax25-tools dahdi
> crm: crm114 pacemaker
> cutter: cutter-testing-framework-bin cutter
> gearmand: gearman-job-server gearman-server
> update-locale: gosa-dev locales
> sendpage: hylafax-client sendpage-server
> rpcinfo: libc-bin rpcbind
> lid: libuser id-utils
> nfsiostat: nfs-common sysstat
> vmware-user-suid-wrapper: open-vm-tools open-vm-toolbox
> ptest: pacemaker parmetis-test
> siggen: siggen tripwire
> tcpd: tcm tcpd
> vuname: util-vserver umview
>
> Any volunteers to file bugs?
>

Does this include search across all components of standard $PATH and
across all packages? How did you run this check? I would be interested
in duplicates (shipped by the single package or different packages)
across /bin & /usr/bin;   /sbin & /usr/sbin;   /lib & /usr/lib and
etc.

Regards,
Dmitrijs.


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Bug#684202: ITP: python-shelltoolbox -- Collection of helpers for interacting with shell commands

[Clint Byrum]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Clint Byrum 

* Package name: python-shelltoolbox
  Version : 0.2.1+bzr17
  Upstream Author : Launchpad Yellow Squad 
* URL : https://launchpad.net/python-shelltoolbox
* License : GPL-3
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Collection of helpers for interacting with shell commands

Convenience functions and classes for using shell commands from within
Python. The primary focus of these commands is system administration
tasks such as updating packages and running ssh. Also includes some
general-purpose routines.


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Bug#684200: ITP: confctl -- Utility to access C-like configuration files from shell scripts.

[Edward Tomasz Napierala]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Edward Tomasz Napierala 


* Package name: confctl
  Version : 1.1
  Upstream Author : Edward Tomasz Napierala 
* URL : https://github.com/trasz/confctl/
* License : BSD
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Utility to access C-like configuration files from shell 
scripts.

Confctl is a sysctl-like tool to provide access to C-syntax configuration
files, such as dhcpd.conf.  It allows for retrieving, modifying, adding
and removing variables, while preserving comments and formatting.


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Olaf Titz]

> guess: nvram-wakeup sgt-puzzles

That's an awfully generic name for a program which gets run exactly once per
motherboard to figure out some hardware configuration :-(
Not knowing the game I would recommend renaming the nvram-wakeup thingy.

Olaf


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Simon Tatham]

Ian Jackson  wrote:
> So, Simon, if these puzzle names should be qualified to make them more
> unique on the PATH, what formulaic change should be made ?  My
> recommendation would be "sgt-*" on the grounds that that's unlikely to
> conflict, although it might of course end up with your initials on a
> broken or badly-behaved derivative.

"sgt-*" is what I'd have suggested too, since it's the most sensible
abbreviation of the title of the whole puzzle collection.

I hadn't actually considered the risk of crappy derivatives looking
as if I wrote them, but given that they'll probably still be
labelled with my name in places other than their filenames, I don't
think it's something I can get worked up about. Perhaps I shouldn't
have named the whole collection after myself in the first place, but
I couldn't think of a better name at the time and it's too late now.

Cheers,
Simon
-- 
Simon Tatham "What a caterpillar calls the end of the
world, a human calls a butterfly."


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Ian Jackson]

Ben Hutchings writes ("Re: node-like file conflicts"):
> On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 04:14:19PM +0200, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> [...]
> > guess: nvram-wakeup sgt-puzzles
> [...]
> > Ben Hutchings 
> >sgt-puzzles
> [...]
> 
> There are a lot of short and generic names in this package.  I
> appended 'game' to some of them to avoid such conflicts when
> originally uploading.  'guess' was added more recently and I must have
> forgotten to check.
> 
> I don't know if I should carry on adding the suffix to specific
> conflicting names, or do what Fedora has done: add 'puzzle-' as a
> prefix to all of them.  I'm probably not the only one who sometimes
> types their names, so the latter could be an annoying change.

We should (i) discuss this with upstream (ii) do a transition where we
ship new names for a bit.

So, Simon, if these puzzle names should be qualified to make them more
unique on the PATH, what formulaic change should be made ?  My
recommendation would be "sgt-*" on the grounds that that's unlikely to
conflict, although it might of course end up with your initials on a
broken or badly-behaved derivative.

Ian.


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Ben Hutchings]

On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 04:14:19PM +0200, Jakub Wilk wrote:
[...]
> guess: nvram-wakeup sgt-puzzles
[...]
> Ben Hutchings 
>sgt-puzzles
[...]

There are a lot of short and generic names in this package.  I
appended 'game' to some of them to avoid such conflicts when
originally uploading.  'guess' was added more recently and I must have
forgotten to check.

I don't know if I should carry on adding the suffix to specific
conflicting names, or do what Fedora has done: add 'puzzle-' as a
prefix to all of them.  I'm probably not the only one who sometimes
types their names, so the latter could be an annoying change.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking.
  - Albert Camus


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Jakub Wilk]

* Josselin Mouette , 2012-08-07, 08:13:

The following package pairs:
1) are co-installable,
2) both ship binaries with the same name, but in different directories 
within $PATH (e.g. one in /usr/bin, another in /usr/sbin):


Thanks.

There’s also epiphany (maybe your forgot /usr/games).


Hasn't it been fixed since, um, 2003? (bug #216489)

But you guessed right, I forgot to check /usr/games:

sauce: fortunes-de sauce
makeobj: kdesdk-scripts simutrans-makeobj
mousetrap: gnome-mousetrap mousetrap
monop: bsdgames mono-devel
rs: reminiscence rs
guess: nvram-wakeup sgt-puzzles
morse: bsdgames morse
morse: bsdgames morse-simulator
hunt: bsdgames hunt
scribble: racket scribble
metar: flightgear metar
queen: flight-of-the-amazon-queen sgb

(Strictly speaking flightgear + metar are not co-installable, but that's 
only because flightgear itself is not installable.)


--
Jakub Wilk
Andreas Tille 
   fortunes-de

Angel Ramos 
   hunt

Anibal Avelar 
   mousetrap

Ansgar Burchardt 
   simutrans-makeobj (U)

Ben Hutchings 
   sgt-puzzles

Brian White 
   scribble

Clint Adams 
   simutrans-makeobj (U)

Damyan Ivanov 
   reminiscence (U)

David Bremner 
   racket

David Weinehall 
   flight-of-the-amazon-queen (U)

Debian Accessibility Team 
   gnome-mousetrap

Debian FlightGear Crew 
   flightgear

Debian Games Team 
   bsdgames
   flight-of-the-amazon-queen
   reminiscence
   simutrans-makeobj

Debian Mono Group 
   mono-devel

Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers 
   kdesdk-scripts

Debian Science Team 
   morse-simulator

Debian VDR Team 
   nvram-wakeup

Fathi Boudra 
   kdesdk-scripts (U)

George Kiagiadakis 
   kdesdk-scripts (U)

Ian Jackson 
   sauce

James McCoy 
   racket (U)

Jo Shields 
   mono-devel (U)

José Manuel Santamaría Lema 
   kdesdk-scripts (U)

Julian Gilbey 
   sgb

Kees Leune 
   metar

Michael Prokop 
   rs (U)

Mirco Bauer 
   mono-devel (U)

Modestas Vainius 
   kdesdk-scripts (U)

Moritz Muehlenhoff 
   flight-of-the-amazon-queen (U)

Nanakos Chrysostomos 
   morse

Ove Kaaven 
   flightgear (U)

Samuel Thibault 
   gnome-mousetrap (U)

Sune Vuorela 
   kdesdk-scripts (U)

Sylvestre Ledru 
   morse-simulator (U)

Séverin Lemaignan 
   morse-simulator (U)

Thomas Schmidt 
   nvram-wakeup (U)

Thorsten Glaser 
   rs

Tobias Grimm 
   nvram-wakeup (U)

Tobias Quathamer 
   bsdgames (U)

Bug#684161: ITP: seascope -- source code navigation tool

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ritesh Raj Sarraf 

* Package name: seascope
  Version : 0.6
  Upstream Author : Anil Kumar 
* URL : http://code.google.com/p/seascope
* License : BSD
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : source code navigation tool

 Seascope is a graphical source code browsing tool with cross reference
 functionality support using the following backends:
 * cscope
 * idutils
 * ctags
 .
 Seascope is written in Python and is supported on all major operating
 system platforms


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Re: node-like file conflicts

[Ian Jackson]

Josselin Mouette writes ("Re: node-like file conflicts"):
> Le lundi 06 août 2012 à 15:37 +0200, Jakub Wilk a écrit : 
> > The following package pairs:
> > 1) are co-installable,
> > 2) both ship binaries with the same name, but in different directories 
> > within $PATH (e.g. one in /usr/bin, another in /usr/sbin):
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> There’s also epiphany (maybe your forgot /usr/games).

/usr/games is a swamp for another time I think.  I guess it contains
an awful lot of things with clashing names.

Nowadays those name clashes, and the expectation that people writing
games might not be so good about namespace questions as other software
(ha ha ha), might be part of the TBH rather flimsy justification for
/usr/games's existence.

Ian.


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Bug#684135: ITP: libio-detect-perl -- resolve file name from file handle

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard 

* Package name: libio-detect-perl
  Version : 0.004
  Upstream Author : Toby Inkster 
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/IO-Detect
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : resolve file name from file handle

 It is stupidly complicated to detect whether a given scalar is a
 filehandle (or something filehandle like) in Perl. IO::Handle attempts
 to do so, but probably falls short in some cases. The primary advantage
 of using this module is that it gives you somebody to blame (me) if
 your code can't detect a filehandle.
 .
 The main use case for IO::Detect is for when you are writing functions
 and you want to allow the caller to pass a file as an argument without
 being fussy as to whether they pass a file name or a file handle.


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