date:20141021

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Michael Ole Olsen wrote:

 suddenly I couldnt just place a script in rc2.d folder anymore, needed to 
 symlink
 needed to add an lsb header too it seems

Indeed.

It took me quite some effort to learn about LSB headers, exit codes,
SYSV init scripts, and all that, in order to fix our machines, on
which coworkers had put “init scripts”, after Debian forcefully
required insserv even for file-rc. (I come from a DOS/BSD background,
so I haven’t had to deal with all that before.)

That was shortly before systemd was introduced. Just when I finally
learned how to write a proper Debian SYSV init script for things
like JBoss/Wildfly with Liferay.

I was not amused.

I’ll be amused when my coworkers upgrade systems I have no control
over, will get systemd (despite my warnings), and their scripts
and systemd will have “interesting” effects because they don’t
match what systemd documents a system state to be.

bye,
//mirabilos
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Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach (was: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =))

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:

 So, dear fellow DDs, I'm asking you: each time you see that an upstream
 author is breaking an ABI on a package you maintain, write an email to
 him/her, and explain how much this is bad and shouldn't happen. If the
 Unix community starts to realize how much we're loosing by breaking
 ABIs, I'm sure the situation will improve.

Why?

OpenBSD’s libc.so major number is 50 or something like that right now,
because they – correctly – increment it on every incompatible change.

This is not a problem because, you know, we have Open Source, so we
can always just recompile everything against the new libraries.

So I am *honestly* puzzled why you would want to avoid lib major bumps.

Thanks,
//mirabilos
-- 
Sometimes they [people] care too much: pretty printers [and syntax highligh-
ting, d.A.] mechanically produce pretty output that accentuates irrelevant
detail in the program, which is as sensible as putting all the prepositions
in English text in bold font.   -- Rob Pike in Notes on Programming in C


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Bug#765719: general: System restarts on shutdown -h now

2014-10-21 Thread Konstantin Khomoutov

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:04:03 +0200 (CEST)
Moritz Tacke moritz.ta...@gmail.com wrote:

 * What led up to the situation?
  After the last upgrade, the system would not halt any more.
  Instead, it runs into a restart cycle. The restart bypasses GRUB,
  i.e. one a computer with multiple OS, it restarts linux directly.
  The machine in use is a Lenovo Thinkpad X220.
  [...]
  Do you have kexec-tools installed by chance?
[...]
 Thank you very much, that worked instantly! I don't know why
 kexec-tools was installed, but now, it isn't any longer and the
 reboot-cycle is broken.

What I fail to gather from your response, especially from

 it isn't any longer and the reboot-cycle is broken.

is if you really have kexec-tools uninstalled but normal binaries
like /sbin/reboot are still redirected to some kexec's program?
Is that the case?

Or you mean that you have managed to break out of the kernel-only
reboot cycle, all is well and the bug may be closed? ;-)


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Re: LSB headers and other junk, how do you hack a quick init script in debian these days?

2014-10-21 Thread Marc Haber

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:28:07 +0200, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org
wrote:
Michael Ole Olsen g...@gmx.net wrote: 
   How do you hack a quick init script these days?:)

I write a systemd unit file. It’s smaller, faster to write, easier to
understand and works more reliably. 

And it is also a bug to not have an init script since we still have
ports that do not use systemd.

People are working hard on eliminating those (non-systemd ports, not
bugs).

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom  | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834


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Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach (was: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =))

2014-10-21 Thread Konstantin Khomoutov

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:12:20 +0200
Thorsten Glaser t...@mirbsd.de wrote:

  So, dear fellow DDs, I'm asking you: each time you see that an
  upstream author is breaking an ABI on a package you maintain, write
  an email to him/her, and explain how much this is bad and shouldn't
  happen. If the Unix community starts to realize how much we're
  loosing by breaking ABIs, I'm sure the situation will improve.
 
 Why?
[...]
 This is not a problem because, you know, we have Open Source, so we
 can always just recompile everything against the new libraries.

Sometimes we have to run software which is neither Open Source nor Free
on our systems which are (luckily) Open Source and Free.
I don't want to sound pompous or something but it's real life which has
its constraints, however inconvenient.


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Re: post-jessie: header only C++ library package (static?)

2014-10-21 Thread Rene Engelhard

On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 08:45:04PM +, Sune Vuorela wrote:
 On 2014-10-19, Rene Engelhard r...@debian.org wrote:
  On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 04:39:20PM +0200, Jerome BENOIT wrote:
   What I know of is
   - large parts of boost and
   - seqan.
  
  If you are looking for samples: mpfrc++ [1] can be added.
 
  And mdds. And parts of libvigraimpex.
 
  And I am just packaging rapidjson...
 
 Eigen.

glm (libglm-dev).

And there's prbably much more.. And I bet most  ttheir r-deps
don't use Built-Using:

I know from LO (uses boost, vigraimpex, mdds, glm and soon
rapidjsono via collada2gltf) at least.

Regards,

Rene


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Bug#766166: ITP: gns3-server -- GNS3 server to asynchronously manage emulators

2014-10-21 Thread Daniel Lintott

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Daniel Lintott dan...@serverb.co.uk

* Package name: gns3-server
   Version : 1.0
   Upstream Author : Jeremy Grossmann jer...@gns3.net
* URL : www.gns3.net
* License : GPLv3
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : GNS3 server to asynchronously manage emulators
  The GNS3 server manages emulators such as Dynamips, VirtualBox or Qemu/
  KVM. Clients like the GNS3 GUI controls the server using a JSON-RPC API over
  Websockets.


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Bug#766167: ITP: gns3-gui -- GNS3 graphical interface for the GNS3 server

2014-10-21 Thread Daniel Lintott

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Daniel Lintott dan...@serverb.co.uk

* Package name: gns3-gui
   Version : 1.0
   Upstream Author : Jeremy Grossmann jer...@gns3.net
* URL : www.gns3.net
* License : GPLv3
   Programming Lang: Python
   Description : GNS3 graphical interface for the GNS3 server


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Re: Bug#757941: static linking: alternatives for glibc?

2014-10-21 Thread Aurelien Jarno

reassign 754813 libc6
reassign 757941 libc6
forcemerge 754813 757941
severity 754813 important
retitle 754813 libc6 version 2.19 breaks NSS loading for static binaries
forwarded 754813 https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17250
tag 754813 + upstream
thanks

On Tue, Oct 07, 2014 at 09:58:04AM +0400, Michael Tokarev wrote:
 07.10.2014 08:34, Steve Langasek wrote:
 []
  Was the removal of gethostby* APIs from the static glibc intentional?
  
  Yes.  It's the nsswitch problem.  The behavior of those APIs is controlled
  by the nsswitch mechanism (specifically the hosts configuration), which is
  inherently dynamic and doesn't support static linking.
  
  It nevertheless is expected to work when the corresponding NSS modules are
  present.  It's not truly static, but the dynamic loading from static libc is
  supported.
 
 When a statically linked app calls getaddrinfo() (it is getnameinfo not
 gethostbyname), the call immediately returns host not found, try again,
 without any attempt to load anything or look for other files.
 
 This is with jessie glibc.  With wheezy's glibc it worked when the right
 nss modules are presnt (iirc anyway -- I know it worked, I didn't check
 _how_ it worked).
 
  So bug #757941 should be reassigned to glibc, instead of claiming that this
  is somehow expected glibc behavior.
  
  Perhaps glibc upstream would be willing to restore them?
  
  It would be nice, but I doubt you'll make much progress.  Lots of people
  have complained about this over the years.
  
  At issue here is a glibc regression, not the standard complaints about
  static glibc being not truly static.
 
 Regression or not, but there are several other problems here.
 

This is a regression introduced in 2.19 by the following commit:

| commit 0d23a5c1b1908700d25b7e3c6cece148e19dded4
| Author: Maciej W. Rozycki ma...@codesourcery.com
| Date:   Fri Jan 31 17:51:31 2014 +
| 
| [BZ #16046] Static dlopen correction fallout fixes.
| 
| Fixes to address issues from BZ #15022 resolution, as follows:
| 
| * TLS updates to csu/libc-tls.c -- we now have a proper main map, so
|   there's no longer a need to create a separate fake one to keep TLS
|   structures,
| 
| * random updates to elf/dl-close.c -- LM_ID_BASE is now a valid name
|   space ID for static executables as well, so assert that we don't
|   unload the main map.  Similarly dl_nns isn't supposed to be 0 for
|   static executables anymore,
| 
| * actual BZ #16046 fix to elf/dl-iteratephdr.c -- the dl_iterate_phdr
|   special function for static executables isn't needed anymore, provided
|   that l_phdr and l_phnum members of the main map have been properly
|   initialized (done in _dl_non_dynamic_init in elf/dl-support.c now),
| 
| * ld.so.cache loader update to elf/dl-load.c --
|   GL(dl_ns)[LM_ID_BASE]._ns_loaded is now always initialized in static
|   executables so can become the fallback loader map to check for
|   DF_1_NODEFLIB, provided that the l_flags_1 member of the main map has
|   been properly initialized (done in elf/dl-support.c now); this also
|   ensures previous semantics elsewhere in elf/dl-load.c,
| 
| * matching updates to elf/dl-support.c -- to complement the two fixes
|   above.

This is actually the same bug than #754813, as all NSS functions are
affected, including DNS resolver or getpwuid. I am therefore merging the
bugs.

-- 
Aurelien Jarno  GPG: 4096R/1DDD8C9B
aurel...@aurel32.net http://www.aurel32.net


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Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach

Konstantin Khomoutov dixit:

Sometimes we have to run software which is neither Open Source nor Free
on our systems which are (luckily) Open Source and Free.

Things like f-prot are shipped statically linked, when in their
binary form for OpenBSD. And binary compatibility only goes so
far either in GNU/Linux… (luckily, we have VMs now). This is
especially true for Debian: try to install binary *.deb from
various people, or to build AOSP (Android) on Debian… Multi-Arch
also introduced lots of fun…

bye,
//mirabilos
-- 
16:47⎜«mika:#grml» .oO(mira ist einfach gut)  23:22⎜«mikap:#grml»
mirabilos: und dein bootloader ist geil :)23:29⎜«mikap:#grml» und ich
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gleich mal auf usb-stick installieren   -- Michael Prokop über MirOS bsd4grml


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Bug#766175: ITP: vboxwrapper -- control mechanism for VirtualBox on Linux

2014-10-21 Thread Daniel Lintott

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Daniel Lintott dan...@serverb.co.uk

* Package name: vboxwrapper
  Version : 0.9.1
  Upstream Author : Jeremy Grossmann  Alexey Eromenko jer...@gns3.net
* URL : https://github.com/GNS3/vboxwrapper
* License : GPLv2
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : control mechanism for VirtualBox on Linux


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Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach (was: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =))

Hi,

Thorsten Glaser:
 OpenBSD’s libc.so major number is 50 or something like that right now,
 because they – correctly – increment it on every incompatible change.
 
Glibc has versioned symbols instead …

 This is not a problem because, you know, we have Open Source, so we
 can always just recompile everything against the new libraries.
 
I'd be ecstatic if the whole world was Open Source, but it is not.
It probably never will be.

And even if/when I have source, I'd like to continue to use my
locally-built programs. Instead of being forced to rebuild each
and every one of them, every time I do an OS upgrade. :-/

-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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Re: piece of mind

On 10/20/2014 at 01:50 PM, Axel Wagner wrote:

 Hi Thorsten,
 
 Thorsten Glaser t...@mirbsd.de writes:
 
 If you don't want to use my software on general principles, go
 away and write your own. Do not bother me.
 
 This principle is hardly specific to systemd.
 
 Yes, but other upstreams at least agree to not step on the toes of
 people who wish to use other software.
 
 Can you give an example of people doing that in case of systemd?
 Because so far, everything I heard was similar to GNOME, where:
 • systemd provided a feature.

This is the problem. The init system should not be providing features
which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown, want to make use
of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly all? - of the other
init-system candidates don't either.) Such features should be provided
separately, independent of what may happen to be running as PID 1.

The decision to incorporate such features into systemd is IMO the design
flaw which leads to the problems to which people object. That decision
was made by the systemd developers, and is the core reason why blaming
systemd upstream for the problems that result from

 • Software A's upstream decided they wanted to use it, because it made
   their life easier.

is arguably (but IMO often) legitimate.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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aptitude dependency-resolver behaviors (was Re: apt-get install sysvinit-core removes gnome?)

On 10/20/2014 at 11:59 AM, David Kalnischkies wrote:

 On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 09:32:54AM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
 
 David Kalnischkies:

 This isn't trying harder, it is trying increasingly incorrect
 solutions to the problem because aptitude assumes the users is
 not able to express himself correctly. apt-get is treating its
 user as its god instead, aka: user is always right, even if it
 makes no sense in apt's simple mind.
 
 My main problem is that, whenever I install a difficult package,
 the first solution I get presented is always to simply not install
 the package in question. The next 2^n-1 solutions transitively
 remove everything that currently conflicts with installing the
 thing in question. Rejecting the removal of a few core packages
 then gets me the correct solution, e.g. upgrading two packages.
 
 I think aptitude is calling this canceling actions. I would bet you
 can use this config setting to discourage it from doing that, but 
 ultimately its a design choice to allow or forbid them at all.
 
 Selecting one package in an or-group is a grand example of people
 not understand their tools although the policy is simple and
 logic: If it isn't impossible to let it win, the first
 alternative wins. If the package manager would go for any
 heuristic based on simplicity of installation instead everyone
 would have lsb-invalid-mta as MTA because that is damn easy to
 install by any standard. Maintainers are very heavily relying on
 this property while e.g. building packages.
 
 You don't have to drop that part of its logic. Choosing a different
 package as a dependency should of course be a last resort action
 (i.e. be heavily penalized). I'm not talking about changing that.
 I'm talking about the fact that aptitude treats upgrading to a
 slightly-lower-prioritized version of a package as a *way* worse
 solution than removing that package (and/or 500 others).
 
 Well, slightly lower priority means packages from a different
 release in general, so that isn't a safe action either. experimental
 and backports come to mind. Never upgrading to a security fix is
 another.
 
 Also – but that might be a relatively controversial point – users
 are much better at figuring out which packages they don't want
 removed compared to e.g. which packages should be held at a lower
 version, so I can optimize the other values and let the user decide
 along a property he can easily reason about (I am not suggestion that
 aptitude or apt-get work that way, but who knows that for sure
 anyway, right?).

What I think is being asked for (and what I'd certainly like to see,
anyway) is a way for the user, having figured out which packages they
don't want removed, to tell the aptitude resolver that and have it taken
into account in calculating a dependency solution.

As it happens, there's an obvious way to do that: specify the package(s)
you don't want removed on the aptitude command line.

However, one of the behaviors I've observed - which I think, per the
quote above, is part of exactly what is being complained about - is that
aptitude will often propose a solution which involves keep
package-X-from-command-line at its current version before proposing a
solution which involves install a new version of that same package.
Thus, specifying a package on the command line does not effectively tell
the aptitude resolver that you don't want it removed.

(I'm pretty sure I've seen a proposed solution, in a package-upgrade
scenario, which involved remove package X and everything that depends
on it, as well. But I don't recall any specifics on that one, so it
might be my imagination.)

My core objection to aptitude is less that it proposes non-optimal
solutions first (although that's certainly part of it) than that it
frequently, indeed perhaps consistently, proposes solutions which
involve *not doing the actual thing which was requested* before
proposing ones which do. That does not seem remotely reasonable, to me.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Bug#766202: ITP: libcatmandu-marc-perl -- modules for working with MARC data within the Catmandu framework

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libcatmandu-marc-perl
  Version : 0.206
  Upstream Author : Patrick Hochstenbach patrick.hochstenb...@ugent.be
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/Catmandu-MARC
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : modules for working with MARC data within the Catmandu 
framework

 Catmandu provides a suite of Perl modules to ease the import, storage,
 retrieval, export and transformation of metadata records.
 .
 Catmandu::MARC contains modules for handling MARC data within the
 Catmandu framework.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Josselin Mouette

The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: 
This is the problem. The init system should not be providing features
which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown, want to make use
of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly all? - of the other
init-system candidates don't either.) Such features should be provided
separately, independent of what may happen to be running as PID 1.

These features cannot exist separately. Quoting the systemd position
statement:

[…] while it is true that a handful of trivial interfaces are not really
related to systemd (and could be split out if needed), most of these
features cannot be implemented without close integration to PID 1. It is
not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
of how the service was launched. Et caetera. 

-- 
 .''`.Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
  `-


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Bug#766204: ITP: libcatmandu-mab2-perl -- modules for working with MAB2 data within the Catmandu framework

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libcatmandu-mab2-perl
  Version : 0.07
  Upstream Author : Johann Rolschewski rolschew...@gmail.com
* URL : https://github.com/jorol/Catmandu-MAB2
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : modules for working with MAB2 data within the Catmandu 
framework

 Catmandu provides a suite of Perl modules to ease the import, storage,
 retrieval, export and transformation of metadata records.
 .
 Catmandu::MAB2 contains methods to work with MAB2 data within the
 Catmandu framework.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Re: piece of mind

On 10/21/2014 at 10:03 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:

 The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote:
 
 This is the problem. The init system should not be providing
 features which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown,
 want to make use of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly
 all? - of the other init-system candidates don't either.) Such
 features should be provided separately, independent of what may
 happen to be running as PID 1.
 
 These features cannot exist separately.

If that is the case, then they should not be provided at all.

That is a core disagreement here; the systemd upstream plainly rank
those as features more valuable than either the principle(s) which
is(/are) violated by having them be provided by PID 1 or the real-world
consequences (in terms of other software depending on a particular init
system) of providing them in PID 1, and other people invert those
relative values.

 Quoting the systemd position statement:
 
 […] while it is true that a handful of trivial interfaces are not
 really related to systemd (and could be split out if needed), most of
 these features cannot be implemented without close integration to PID
 1. It is not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the
 process which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not
 possible to ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not
 have awareness of how the service was launched. Et caetera.

I am aware of this statement.

I am not convinced that this is necessarily true, but even if it is,
that simply means that the decision should have been to not implement
those features at all rather than to implement them with integration to
PID 1.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Norbert Preining

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Josselin Mouette wrote:
 not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
 which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
 ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
 of how the service was launched. Et caetera. 

And surely that didn't work the last 20 years ... 

Only because the Wanderer is a troll, doesn't mean that everything
he says is wrong.

Norbert


PREINING, Norbert   http://www.preining.info
JAIST, Japan TeX Live  Debian Developer
GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0  ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13



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Re: piece of mind

On 10/21/2014 at 10:13 AM, Norbert Preining wrote:

 On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Josselin Mouette wrote:
 
 not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the
 process which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not
 possible to ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not
 have awareness of how the service was launched. Et caetera.
 
 And surely that didn't work the last 20 years ...

I believe the argument is that it didn't work reliably, or as well as it
could have and as they argue that it should. And I can see their point,
although I don't know whether I necessarily believe it holds.

 Only because the Wanderer is a troll, doesn't mean that everything
 he says is wrong.

I object to being characterized as a troll. I'm not trying to stir
things up or incite a furor or the like, nor am I posting to cause a
reaction for my own amusement, nor am I saying controversial or hostile
or otherwise flamebait-y things regardless of whether or not I actually
believe them, or anything along those lines.

I've actively refrained from commenting in many systemd-related threads,
here and elsewhere, when I felt that I did not have anything relevant or
useful to say, and/or when I felt that my contribution would not help
anything. It's possible that my contribution won't help anything here
either, but I judged that it was at least close enough to be worth the
risk.

Now, if you wanted to classify me as posting flamebait in this
specific instance, I'd have much less ground on which to refute that -
though doing so was not my goal, and I do think that even some things
which are valuable contributions to a discussion can also be classified
as flamebait. But posting flamebait and being a troll are very
different things.

(Even independent of its being used to refer to me, I don't like to see
a useful and specific term being broadened into less-useful generality
like that.)

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Ansgar Burchardt

On 10/21/2014 04:13 PM, Norbert Preining wrote:
 On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Josselin Mouette wrote:
 not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
 which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
 ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
 of how the service was launched. Et caetera. 
 
 And surely that didn't work the last 20 years ... 

It did not work, yes. That's why, for example, fail2ban can be used by
local users to deny access to other users[1].

If logging information includes additional information, you could make
fail2ban only block users if the log messages about failed logins come
from the SSH service.

Ansgar

  [1]
http://www.fail2ban.org/wiki/index.php/MANUAL_0_8#Possibility_of_DOS_attack_by_a_local_user


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Neil Williams

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:03:10 +0200
Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org wrote:

 The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: 
 This is the problem. The init system should not be providing
 features which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown,
 want to make use of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly
 all? - of the other init-system candidates don't either.) Such
 features should be provided separately, independent of what may
 happen to be running as PID 1.
 
 These features cannot exist separately. Quoting the systemd position
 statement:
 
 […] while it is true that a handful of trivial interfaces are not
 really related to systemd (and could be split out if needed), most of
 these features cannot be implemented without close integration to PID
 1. It is not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the
 process which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not
 possible to ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not
 have awareness of how the service was launched. Et caetera. 
 

not possible is always an intolerably extreme position in software.

Not currently possible is very common, not supported, not easily
possible, not practical, not convenient or not without potentially
compromising security are common too but all are open to new ideas and
new implementations. Security itself is a spectrum and many use cases
merit lower security to gain convenience, many other use cases have a
perfectly sane reason to require security at the cost of (nearly all)
convenience.

It is always possible to push an interface between two 'rigid' free
software components - it might not be secure in some forms and there
may be latency but to say that a method of software A interacting with
software B is not possible is a wild exaggeration and extremely
short-sighted. Who knows what will become possible in the future? It is
an error for any software project to state that the position of the
project on any one matter is that the software to implement the
solution to a problem is not possible.

A relation of a log to a service is mere configuration - a conffile is
all that is needed for that example.

Any software, currently possible or not, is just a SMOP after all...

(Note: In common with a lot of us, I don't have time to work on any
other software than the load I have currently... but that does *not*
preclude someone else joining the effort and doing some of it. It is
not currently possible for me to take on more software development but
it is not impossible.)

-- 


Neil Williams
=
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/



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Re: piece of mind

Hi,

The Wanderer:
  Can you give an example of people doing that in case of systemd?
  Because so far, everything I heard was similar to GNOME, where:
  • systemd provided a feature.
 
 This is the problem. The init system should not be providing features
 which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown, want to make use
 of.

Define post-boot. What about socket activation? Or starting up my
database when the iSCSI link to the storage comes up, instead of
*whenever*? Or cleanly restarting my Apache heap-of-processes?

Please explain why it should *not* provide these features.
Why should every daemon (or its startup script) re-implement the same
code to put itself in the background, change UIDs, resource-limit and
security-enhance (private /tmp) itself, when the same thing can be
implemented once, so that I as a sysadmin (or my puppet script) don't have
to learn ten separate ways of configuring that?

There are a bunch of things systemd can do which sys5rc can't do. Why is it
a design flaw to provide these in the way that's easiest to implement,
and therefore (presumably) least buggy?

 The decision to incorporate such features into systemd is IMO the design
 flaw which leads to the problems to which people object. That decision
 was made by the systemd developers

for a couple of reasonably good reasons. You might want to debate the
validity of these reasons and the difficulty of doing it some other way,
assuming that there's a tangible benefit of doing it another way in the
first place. Having ten processes responsible for bitspieces of what
systemd-as-PID1 does instead of one isn't a benefit -- not if all you gain
by that is nine additional processes.

It's a big monolithic thing, and big monolithic things are bad and evil
and non-Unix-y, so there!!1! is not a valid argument.

-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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GPL-3 openssl: provide a -nossl variant for a library

2014-10-21 Thread Michael Fladischer

Hi,

I'm the maintainer for src:librabbitmq and the binary package
librabbitmq1 is linked against libssl1.0.0 (OpenSSL).

Now I was approached by Julien Kerihuel from the OpenChange project, who
release their software under the terms of GPL-3, asking if I could
provide an alternative to the OpenSSL-linked library so they can use it
without causing a license conflict.

Sadly librabbitmq only supports OpenSSL, there is rudimentary support
for GnuTLS but it seems to be severely broken at the moment.

Considering this, is it a good idea to provide a librabbitmq1-nossl
binary package that was built without OpenSSL while still having
librabbitmq1 with OpenSSL-support?

I could not find another package that does this, so I assume that a
similar situation did not yet occur (unlikely) or that there where
arguments against providing such a package variant.

Cheers,
-- 
Michael Fladischer
Fladi.at



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Re: GPL-3 openssl: provide a -nossl variant for a library

2014-10-21 Thread Ondřej Surý

Why just not add a license exception as many other GPL projects do? 
Something like (copied from our Knot DNS d/copyright):

 In addition, as a special exception, the author of this program gives
 permission to link the code of its release with the OpenSSL project's
 OpenSSL library (or with modified versions of it that use the same
 license as the OpenSSL library), and distribute the linked
 executables. You must obey the GNU General Public License in all
 respects for all of the code used other than OpenSSL.  If you
 modify this file, you may extend this exception to your version of
 the file, but you are not obligated to do so.  If you do not wish to
 do so, delete this exception statement from your version.

O.

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014, at 15:58, Michael Fladischer wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm the maintainer for src:librabbitmq and the binary package
 librabbitmq1 is linked against libssl1.0.0 (OpenSSL).
 
 Now I was approached by Julien Kerihuel from the OpenChange project, who
 release their software under the terms of GPL-3, asking if I could
 provide an alternative to the OpenSSL-linked library so they can use it
 without causing a license conflict.
 
 Sadly librabbitmq only supports OpenSSL, there is rudimentary support
 for GnuTLS but it seems to be severely broken at the moment.
 
 Considering this, is it a good idea to provide a librabbitmq1-nossl
 binary package that was built without OpenSSL while still having
 librabbitmq1 with OpenSSL-support?
 
 I could not find another package that does this, so I assume that a
 similar situation did not yet occur (unlikely) or that there where
 arguments against providing such a package variant.
 
 Cheers,
 -- 
 Michael Fladischer
 Fladi.at
 
 Email had 1 attachment:
 + signature.asc
   1k (application/pgp-signature)


-- 
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Knot DNS (https://www.knot-dns.cz/) – a high-performance DNS server


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Martin Read


On 21/10/14 15:32, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:

It did not work, yes. That's why, for example, fail2ban can be used by
local users to deny access to other users[1].


With that said, if that fact *actually matters*, you probably have 
other, worse problems.



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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Ondřej Surý

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014, at 16:13, Norbert Preining wrote:
 On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Josselin Mouette wrote:
  not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
  which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
  ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
  of how the service was launched. Et caetera. 
 
 And surely that didn't work the last 20 years ... 
 
 Only because the Wanderer is a troll, doesn't mean that everything
 he says is wrong.

Norbert, could you please stop your aggressive behaviour against other
people on this list? Sadly, you are not very funny with these remarks.

Thanks,
-- 
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Knot DNS (https://www.knot-dns.cz/) – a high-performance DNS server


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Re: piece of mind

Ondřej, could you please stop your aggressive behaviour against other
people on this list? Sadly, you are not very helpful with these remarks.
Repeatedly.

Thanks,
//mirabilos
-- 
15:41⎜Lo-lan-do:#fusionforge Somebody write a testsuite for helloworld :-)


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Bug#766211: ITP: fonts-orbitron -- geometric sans-serif typeface intended for display purposes

2014-10-21 Thread Roland Hieber

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Roland Hieber roh...@rohieb.name

* Package name: fonts-orbitron
  Version : 20110526.13e6a52
  Upstream Author : Matt McInerney m...@pixelspread.com
* URL : https://github.com/theleagueof/orbitron
* License : OFL-1.1
  Programming Lang: n/a (font)
  Description : geometric sans-serif typeface intended for display purposes

  Orbitron was designed as an alternative to futuristic looking typefaces
  like Eurostile or Bank Gothic. For example, it can be used on spaceship
  exteriors, space station signage, monopolistic corporate branding,
  uniforms featuring aerodynamic shoulder pads, etc.

  This fontface is available in four weights (light, medium, bold, and
  black), and features a stylistic alternative (small caps) as well as a
  ton of alternate glyphs.

I use Orbitron myself from time to time, and it was requested an the wiki (as
As this is my first Debian package, I will maintain the package inside the
pkg-fonts team, but I will need a sponsor for uploading.

[8]: https://wiki.debian.org/Fonts/Missing


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Ansgar Burchardt

On 10/21/2014 04:43 PM, Martin Read wrote:
 On 21/10/14 15:32, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
 It did not work, yes. That's why, for example, fail2ban can be used by
 local users to deny access to other users[1].
 
 With that said, if that fact *actually matters*, you probably have
 other, worse problems.

Like students having remote access to computers in a lab? :)

Having to assume local users (be they system users or real users) do not
do stupid things seems wrong on a multi user system.

Ansgar


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Alessio Treglia

Hi,

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org wrote:
 Norbert, could you please stop your aggressive behaviour against other
 people on this list? Sadly, you are not very funny with these remarks.

Come on Ondřej, that was just sarcastic to me.
The CoC is a good thing, though such attitude to educate others about
politeness and courtesy is getting ridiculous.

Cheers.

-- 
Alessio Treglia  | www.alessiotreglia.com
Debian Developer | ales...@debian.org
Ubuntu Core Developer|  quadris...@ubuntu.com
0416 0004 A827 6E40 BB98 90FB E8A4 8AE5 311D 765A


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Re: piece of mind

Hi,

Neil Williams:
 A relation of a log to a service is mere configuration - a conffile is
 all that is needed for that example.
 
No it's not. You need code which captures all of a daemon's output (and its
children -- stdout+stderr+syslog), separately from any other daemon, and
log it in a way that's attributable to that daemon. Even if logged by some
randomly-named process which this daemon started.

Whichever code is responsible for starting that daemon needs to set that
up. Then it needs to either read the output itself, or forward the file
descriptors to some logger program.

The current way of haphazardly logging to $RANDOM_SYSLOG_FILE and/or
/dev/null (guess what daemonization does to standard error, and guess what
you no longer need to do when your server runs under systemd) is a waste of
time. I want to figure out what the *censored* is wrong with $DAEMON,
not where it logs to (or how to convince it to do so in the first place).

-- 
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Re: piece of mind

On 10/21/2014 at 10:35 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:

 Hi,
 
 The Wanderer:
 
 Can you give an example of people doing that in case of systemd?
 Because so far, everything I heard was similar to GNOME, where:
 • systemd provided a feature.
 
 This is the problem. The init system should not be providing
 features which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown,
 want to make use of.
 
 Define post-boot. What about socket activation? Or starting up my
 database when the iSCSI link to the storage comes up, instead of
 *whenever*? Or cleanly restarting my Apache heap-of-processes?

None of those things are done exclusively at boot / shutdown time, so
they should not be done by the init system. If they are done at all,
they should be done by something which can run and do them under any
init system.

 Please explain why it should *not* provide these features. Why
 should every daemon (or its startup script) re-implement the same
 code to put itself in the background, change UIDs, resource-limit
 and security-enhance (private /tmp) itself,when the same thing can
 be implemented once, so that I as a sysadmin (or my puppet script)
 don't have to learn ten separate ways of configuring that?

I never said every daemon, et cetera, should reimplement those things.
They shouldn't.

Those things should be implemented centrally, in something which can
work irrespective of the current init system. (Barring possibly a
hypothetical init system which actively tries to prevent it from working.)

 There are a bunch of things systemd can do which sys5rc can't do. Why
 is it a design flaw to provide these in the way that's easiest to
 implement, and therefore (presumably) least buggy?

Because, since there is only one slot for PID 1 per system, having
something depend on a feature that is provided by PID 1 breaks choice.
(This is an overly simplistic answer, but I've spent half an hour
writing possible more-detailed responses to this so far, and none of
them seem both accurate and unlikely to be misconstrued.)

Note that I (think I) would have no objection to providing such features
both in PID 1 (for its own use) and in an init-system-independent
external process, with PID 1 providing them for use by other things only
if and as no external provider is available. (In fact, if I'm
understanding things correctly, systemd itself used to do it that way
with cgroups management until the kernel upstream decided that having
multiple cgroups managers running at once was broken design and would
not be supported.)

Something vaguely like that is what seems to be being worked towards
(with some current success) by the systemd-shim project, which is
something of a kludge, and will inevitably be chasing whatever interface
changes systemd upstream chooses to make. It would be better design to
decide to provide that separate implementation as part of the main
project itself (in terms of maintenance, not necessarily of
integration), rather than as a third-party backfill.

 The decision to incorporate such features into systemd is IMO the
 design flaw which leads to the problems to which people object.
 That decision was made by the systemd developers
 
 for a couple of reasonably good reasons. You might want to debate
 the validity of these reasons and the difficulty of doing it some
 other way, assuming that there's a tangible benefit of doing it
 another way in the first place. Having ten processes responsible for
 bitspieces of what systemd-as-PID1 does instead of one isn't a
 benefit -- not if all you gain by that is nine additional processes.

That isn't all you gain by it; you also gain the benefit of being able
to use these features no matter which init system you're running. Which
in turn helps avoid lock-in, and enable easier testing of (or migration
to) alternatives, and prevent user surprise, and so forth.

 It's a big monolithic thing, and big monolithic things are bad and
 evil and non-Unix-y, so there!!1! is not a valid argument.

And it's not an argument I'm making, at least not at present.

I'm not aware of what those reasons are, unless you're referring to the
points referenced in the systemd position statement which Josselin
quoted. My response to that is that do it this way vs. do it some
other way ignores the possibility of don't do it at all, which may be
the correct choice in some cases.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Svante Signell

On Tue, 2014-10-21 at 16:03 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
 The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: 
 This is the problem. The init system should not be providing 
 features
 which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown, want to make 
 use
 of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly all? - of the other
 init-system candidates don't either.) Such features should be provided
 separately, independent of what may happen to be running as PID 1.
 
 These features cannot exist separately. Quoting the systemd position
 statement:
 
 […] while it is true that a handful of trivial interfaces are not really
 related to systemd (and could be split out if needed), most of these
 features cannot be implemented without close integration to PID 1. It is
 not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
 which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
 ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
 of how the service was launched. Et caetera. 

How is uselessd solving this then?


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Robert Lemmen

hi matthias,

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:35:20PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
 [...]
 first place. Having ten processes responsible for bitspieces of what
 systemd-as-PID1 does instead of one isn't a benefit -- not if all you gain
 by that is nine additional processes.
 
 It's a big monolithic thing, and big monolithic things are bad and evil
 and non-Unix-y, so there!!1! is not a valid argument.

but that's the thing, to some (e.g. me) ten separate processes that each
do a fairly small thing with understandable interfaces between them is
an *enormous* benefit over one bigger thing that does all that in an
integrated fashion. to the point that even if the one big thing would
have nice,additional features, I would still opt for the decomposed
one.

obviously you have a different opinion and that is your good right, but
you have to accept that for a lot of people this *is* important. that's
why having the choice would be great!

regards  robert

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Robert Lemmen   http://www.semistable.com 


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Bug#766223: ITP: libmarc-parser-raw-perl -- MARC RAW format parser

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libmarc-parser-raw-perl
  Version : 0.01
  Upstream Author : Johann Rolschewski rolschew...@gmail.com
* URL : https://github.com/jorol/MARC-Parser-RAW
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : MARC RAW format parser

 MARC::Parser::RAW is a lightweight, fault tolerent parser for raw MARC
 records.  Tags, indicators and subfield codes are not validated against
 the MARC standard.  Record length from leader and field lengths from
 the directory are ignored.  Records with a faulty structure will be
 skipped with a warning.  The resulting data structure is optimized for
 usage with the Catmandu data tool kit.

Needed by libcatmandu-marc-perl.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Matthias Klumpp

2014-10-21 17:24 GMT+02:00 Robert Lemmen rober...@semistable.com:
hi matthias,

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:35:20PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
[...]
first place. Having ten processes responsible for bitspieces of what
systemd-as-PID1 does instead of one isn't a benefit -- not if all you gain
by that is nine additional processes.

It's a big monolithic thing, and big monolithic things are bad and evil
and non-Unix-y, so there!!1! is not a valid argument.

but that's the thing, to some (e.g. me) ten separate processes that each
do a fairly small thing with understandable interfaces between them is
an *enormous* benefit over one bigger thing that does all that in an
integrated fashion. to the point that even if the one big thing would
have nice,additional features, I would still opt for the decomposed
one.
Well, you just now described systemd. The systemd project develops
many small tools which do one thing ant interact together via defined
interfaces.
The init daemon is a bit more powerful that sysvinit, but it still
only does what it is supposed to do: Starting, stopping and monitoring
services. The other tools under the systemd umbrella do different
things.
Did you play around with systemd already?
Cheers,
Matthias

--
Debian Developer | Freedesktop-Developer
I welcome VSRE emails. See http://vsre.info/

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Bug#766226: ITP: libmarc-file-mij-perl -- read newline-delimited marc-in-json files

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libmarc-file-mij-perl
  Version : 0.04
  Upstream Author : Bill Dueber dueb...@umich.edu
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/MARC-File-MiJ
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : read newline-delimited marc-in-json files

 MARC::File::MiJ is a subclass of MARC::File for reading MARC records
 encoded as newline-delimited marc-in-json, as supported by
 pymarc/ruby-marc/marc4j and described at
 
http://dilettantes.code4lib.org/blog/2010/09/a-proposal-to-serialize-marc-in-json/.

Needed for libcatmandu-marc-perl.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Robert Lemmen

hi matthias,

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 05:39:49PM +0200, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
 Did you play around with systemd already?

not as much as would be ideal, but I have been running it on one
machine, adapted a few things that I run for starting, and trieid the
monitoring/restart. but really, my main concerns are fueled by pages
like this [0].

 Well, you just now described systemd. The systemd project develops
 many small tools which do one thing ant interact together via defined
 interfaces.
 The init daemon is a bit more powerful that sysvinit, but it still
 only does what it is supposed to do: Starting, stopping and monitoring
 services. The other tools under the systemd umbrella do different

ok, the way you put this sounds great, but let me contrast that with
the originall paragraph:

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:35:20PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
 [...]
 first place. Having ten processes responsible for bitspieces of what
 systemd-as-PID1 does instead of one isn't a benefit -- not if all you
 gain by that is nine additional processes.

I don't quite see how these two paragraph line up. to me these seem to
be contradicting a bit...

The other point is what you expect from the interfaces between
components. In the paragraph towards the top you just say defined, but
I am sure your quality requirements for an interface of that type are
higher than that. I would argue that the most important aspect is
compatibility across large range of versions of the interface, and a
looseness that allows either end of the interface to be (partially)
reimplemented in a different way. so for me POSIX is a well-defined,
stable interface (not without problems, mind you). DBUS means next to
nothing. 

There are a few symptoms that make me think that while an
interface may actually be defined in some way, it is so specific that
there really can only be a single implementation. In other words, what
should really be an optional part now becomes a mandatory part of the
implementation of the interface. For example, one of the core complaints
about systemd is the fact that it is linux-only. I understand that
cgroups is a nice facility, but if an init system can't start a process
without it, then it simply is far too specific (for my taste). Equally,
if my window manager has such specific and absolute requirements that
there is only a single init system that can start it, then something is
terribly amiss. it's just another process after all!

but note that I have nothing against anyone using systemd, or it being
supported in debian! what kinda rubs me the wrong way is intreoduction
of something new and shiny with the expectation that it is now everyone
else's job to make sure that the existing still works. The GR just says
that your package (with the exceptions) must not be specific to an init 
system. That seems to be a no-brainer to me, of course a normal package
must work independently of how or who started it! 

regards  robert

[0] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InterfaceStabilityPromise/

-- 
Robert Lemmen   http://www.semistable.com 


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Re: piece of mind

Hi,

The Wanderer:
 None of those things are done exclusively at boot / shutdown time, so
 they should not be done by the init system. If they are done at all,
 they should be done by something which can run and do them under any
 init system.
 
The whole point of an init system is to start programs.

Do you honestly want to implement all of this twice -- once for real
startup+shutdown, and once for everything else? What do you do when the
line between the two gets more and more blurry?

 Because, since there is only one slot for PID 1 per system, having
 something depend on a feature that is provided by PID 1 breaks choice.

So if you want another init system, you implement that feature some other
way. Which is exactly what the systemd-shim authors are doing.

So what's the problem?

 Note that I (think I) would have no objection to providing such features
 both in PID 1 (for its own use) and in an init-system-independent
 external process, with PID 1 providing them for use by other things only
 if and as no external provider is available.

I can think of a bunch of problems you'd have to solve for this idea to
work. All of which just go away if you simply use the code in PID1. Which
you need anyway. Which is why the systemd people decided not to do that.

All this talk about generic $FEATUREs misses one crucial point: Exactly
which feature of systemd-as-PID1 would one want to move to a separate
process? And which second implementation would be a suitable replacement?

-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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Bug#766229: ITP: libex-monkeypatched-perl -- experimental API for safe monkey-patching

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libex-monkeypatched-perl
  Version : 0.03
  Upstream Author : Aaron Crane a...@cpan.org
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/ex-monkeypatched
* License : Artistic or GPL-2
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : experimental API for safe monkey-patching

 The term monkey patching describes injecting additional methods into
 a class whose implementation you don't control.  If done without care,
 this is dangerous; the problematic case arises when:
  * You add a method to a class;
  * A newer version of the monkey-patched class adds another method of
the same name
  * And uses that new method in some other part of its own
implementation.

 ex::monkeypatched lets you do this sort of monkey-patching safely:
 before it injects a method into the target class, it checks whether the
 class already has a method of the same name.  If it finds such a
 method, it throws an exception (at compile-time with respect to the
 code that does the injection).
 .
 See http://aaroncrane.co.uk/talks/monkey_patching_subclassing/ for
 more details.

Needed by libcatmandu-marc-perl.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Bug#766230: ITP: libmarc-file-marcmaker-perl -- work with MARCMaker/MARCBreaker records

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libmarc-file-marcmaker-perl
  Version : 0.05
  Upstream Author : Bryan Baldus eij...@cpan.org
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/MARC-File-MARCMaker
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : work with MARCMaker/MARCBreaker records

 MARC::File::MARCMaker is an extension to MARC::Record for working with
 MARC21 data using the format used by the Library of Congress MARCMaker
 and MARCBreaker programs.

Needed by libcatmandu-marc-perl.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Re: Accepted tasksel 3.29 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Santiago Vila

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:22:32PM +, Joey Hess wrote:
  tasksel (3.29) unstable; urgency=high
  .
* Gnome only works on i386 and amd64, so default to xfce on other arches.
  Closes: #765839 Thanks, Adam Borowski for testing.

Gnome only works on i386 and amd64?

Maybe we should substract some points for this fact in the desktop
requalification page:

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Requalification/Jessie

The page says that it would improve consistency to have the same
default across architectures when possible, but apparently the value
of this good property is currently zero, which seems a little bit
strange to me.

Thanks.


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Bug#766236: ITP: libcatmandu-sru-perl -- modules for working with SRU data within the Catmandu framework

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libcatmandu-sru-perl
  Version : 0.037
  Upstream Author : Wouter Willaert, wout...@inuits.eu
* URL : https://github.com/LibreCat/Catmandu-SRU
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : modules for working with SRU data within the Catmandu 
framework

 Catmandu provides a suite of Perl modules to ease the import, storage,
 retrieval, export and transformation of metadata records.
 .
 Catmandu::SRU contains modules for handling SRU data within the
 Catmandu framework.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Re: Accepted tasksel 3.29 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Josselin Mouette

Santiago Vila sanv...@unex.es wrote: 
* Gnome only works on i386 and amd64, so default to xfce on other 
arches.
  Closes: #765839 Thanks, Adam Borowski for testing.

Gnome only works on i386 and amd64?

GNOME works on all Linux architectures.

GNOME *without hardware 3D* will probably have big trouble running
anywhere but on i386 and amd64.
So in the real world, it depends on the architectures: 
  * real-world desktop powerpc hardware comes with hardware 3D and
free drivers 
  * real-world ARM hardware comes with hardware 3D and non-free
drivers 
  * not sure for mips* and s390

So of course if you want to be sure it works in a Qemu host, GNOME is
probably not the best choice. But in the real world it’s a bit more
complicated than that. 

-- 
 .''`.Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
  `-


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Axel Wagner

Hi,

The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm writes:
This is the problem. The init system should not be providing features
which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown, want to make use
of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly all? - of the other
init-system candidates don't either.) Such features should be provided
separately, independent of what may happen to be running as PID 1.

That is your opinion and you might well hold it, even if I disagree with
it. But this point has also been rehashed a thousand times and already
been answered as often, as you are well aware.

What makes your mail flamebait (look, it worked!) and make people
(me included, by the way) classify you as a troll, is that you
intentionally glossed over the point and instead started the millionth
discussion about the technical implementations of systemd, all of which
has been discussed and rediscussed ad infinitum. The point was:

If you don't like systemd, don't use it and stop stepping on people's
toes for wanting to use it. Even if they are the upstream of software
you want to use.

Don't forget, what the trigger for this millionth of discussions about
systemd in debian is: That the systemd-opponents want to take the
freedom from other people (amongst other the gnome upstream and debian
maintainers) to use the software they like in the way they like, by
preventing them from depending on systemd.

Best,

Axel Wagner

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Bug#766238: ITP: libxml-struct-perl -- represent XML as data structure preserving element order

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libxml-struct-perl
  Version : 0.23
  Upstream Author : Jakob Voß
* URL : https://github.com/nichtich/XML-Struct
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : represent XML as data structure preserving element order

 XML::Struct implements a mapping between XML and Perl data structures.
 By default, the mapping preserves element order, so it also suits for
 document-oriented XML.  In short, an XML element is represented as
 array reference with three parts:
 .
   [ $name = \%attributes, \@children ]
 .
 This data structure corresponds to the abstract data model of
 MicroXML http://www.w3.org/community/microxml/, a simplified subset
 of XML.
 .
 If your XML documents don't contain relevant attributes, you can also
 choose to map to this format:
 .
   [ $name = \@children ]
 .
 Both parsing (with XML::Struct::Reader or function readXML) and
 serializing (with XML::Struct::Writer or function writeXML) are fully
 based on XML::LibXML, so performance is better than XML::Simple and
 similar to XML::LibXML::Simple.

Needed by libcatmandu-sru-perl.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Bug#766243: ITP: libcatmandu-store-mongodb-perl -- searchable store backed by MongoDB

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: libcatmandu-store-mongodb-perl
  Version : 0.0303
  Upstream Author : Nicolas Steenlant nicolas.steenl...@ugent.be
* URL : https://github.com/LibreCat/Catmandu-Store-MongoDB
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : searchable store backed by MongoDB

 Catmandu provides a suite of Perl modules to ease the import, storage,
 retrieval, export and transformation of metadata records.
 .
 Catmandu::Store::MongoDB is a Perl package that can store data into
 MongoDB databases. The database as a whole is called a 'store'.
 Databases also have compartments (e.g. tables) called Catmandu::Bag-s.

Will be maintained in the Perl team.

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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Olav Vitters

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:14:35AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
  These features cannot exist separately.
 
 If that is the case, then they should not be provided at all.
 
 That is a core disagreement here; the systemd upstream plainly rank
 those as features more valuable than either the principle(s) which
 is(/are) violated by having them be provided by PID 1 or the real-world
 consequences (in terms of other software depending on a particular init
 system) of providing them in PID 1, and other people invert those
 relative values.

You're advocating that some theory is more worthy than practical
benefits. Could you explain why?

-- 
Regards,
Olav


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Re: GPL-3 openssl: provide a -nossl variant for a library

2014-10-21 Thread Jelmer Vernooij

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:41:27PM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote:
 Why just not add a license exception as many other GPL projects do? 
 Something like (copied from our Knot DNS d/copyright):
 
  In addition, as a special exception, the author of this program gives
  permission to link the code of its release with the OpenSSL project's
  OpenSSL library (or with modified versions of it that use the same
  license as the OpenSSL library), and distribute the linked
  executables. You must obey the GNU General Public License in all
  respects for all of the code used other than OpenSSL.  If you
  modify this file, you may extend this exception to your version of
  the file, but you are not obligated to do so.  If you do not wish to
  do so, delete this exception statement from your version.
This is harder for OpenChange since it links against other GPLv3 projects,
most notably Samba.

Samba is unlikely to add such an exception.

Cheers,

Jelmer

 On Tue, Oct 21, 2014, at 15:58, Michael Fladischer wrote:
  Hi,
  
  I'm the maintainer for src:librabbitmq and the binary package
  librabbitmq1 is linked against libssl1.0.0 (OpenSSL).
  
  Now I was approached by Julien Kerihuel from the OpenChange project, who
  release their software under the terms of GPL-3, asking if I could
  provide an alternative to the OpenSSL-linked library so they can use it
  without causing a license conflict.
  
  Sadly librabbitmq only supports OpenSSL, there is rudimentary support
  for GnuTLS but it seems to be severely broken at the moment.
  
  Considering this, is it a good idea to provide a librabbitmq1-nossl
  binary package that was built without OpenSSL while still having
  librabbitmq1 with OpenSSL-support?
  
  I could not find another package that does this, so I assume that a
  similar situation did not yet occur (unlikely) or that there where
  arguments against providing such a package variant.
  
  Cheers,
  -- 
  Michael Fladischer
  Fladi.at
  
  Email had 1 attachment:
  + signature.asc
1k (application/pgp-signature)


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Gunnar Wolf

The Wanderer dijo [Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 11:10:41AM -0400]:
  Can you give an example of people doing that in case of systemd?
  Because so far, everything I heard was similar to GNOME, where:
  • systemd provided a feature.
  
  This is the problem. The init system should not be providing
  features which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown,
  want to make use of.
  
  Define post-boot. What about socket activation? Or starting up my
  database when the iSCSI link to the storage comes up, instead of
  *whenever*? Or cleanly restarting my Apache heap-of-processes?
 
 None of those things are done exclusively at boot / shutdown time, so
 they should not be done by the init system. If they are done at all,
 they should be done by something which can run and do them under any
 init system.

That's precisely the quid. We were used to having a passive init
system, and called initialization to the actions that happen upon
boot. All further state changes had to be monitored by, well, state
monitoring daemons (in a broad sense). But our computers are each
time less static than back in 1983.

That's the reason why most of us felt SysV had to be replaced with
something more adequate to our current reality. No, I'm not frankly
familiar with systemd (although I run it at two of my computers, but
I'm not yet familiar with its ways), but this argument has been
floating around for many years already. 

Fact is, state changes should often alter what's running. The example
you quote states the iSCSI link should be a dependency and a trigger
for the database activation. Is the network flaky? OK, the database
should shut down if it no longer has access to its backing store. Is
the iSCSI link back up? OK, the database should start answering
queries as soon as it's available. What does it take to make it
available? Well, for starters, it should be fsck'ed, as it was
forcibly unmounted (it fell out of existence).

Why shouldn't an init system take care of such operation? After all, I
configured I want PostgreSQL to run on the server. Isn't that
enough?

Even more: If I ask my system, why is PostgreSQL not running?, it
should clearly tell me, the disks where it wants to reside do not
currently exist. Or even more: if I just ask the system, how are you
feeling today?, I should be able to see (in red, bold letters)
anything that aches.

 (...)
 That isn't all you gain by it; you also gain the benefit of being able
 to use these features no matter which init system you're running. Which
 in turn helps avoid lock-in, and enable easier testing of (or migration
 to) alternatives, and prevent user surprise, and so forth.

Yes. But it would end up finally boiling up to having your favorite
init spawning nothing but this newfangled ultra-process-supervisor,
which would then start monitoring everything. That is, you'd have
whateverinit spawn a PID 2 process, which would... Perform precisely
systemd's tasks.


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Bug#766253: ITP: libpicocontainer-java -- Java library implementing the Dependency Injection pattern

2014-10-21 Thread Markus Koschany

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Markus Koschany a...@gambaru.de

* Package name: libpicocontainer-java
  Version : 2.15
  Upstream Author : PicoContainer Committers
* URL : http://picocontainer.com
* License : BSD-3-clause
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : Java library implementing the Dependency Injection pattern

PicoContainer is a highly embeddable full service Inversion of
Control (IoC) container for components that honour the Dependency
Injection pattern. It can be used as a lightweight alternative to
Sun's J2EE patterns for web applications or general solutions.
Despite it being very compact in size, PicoContainer supports
different dependency injection types (Constructor, Setter, Annotated
Field and Method) and offers multiple lifecycle and monitoring
strategies.

This is the reintroduction of Picocontainer to Debian because it is now
needed as a dependency for the latest version of Robocode, an
educational Java programming game. I intend to maintain the package as
part of the Java team.


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Bug#766255: ITP: libparanamer-java -- Java based library to access method parameter names at runtime

2014-10-21 Thread Markus Koschany

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Markus Koschany a...@gambaru.de

* Package name: libparanamer-java
  Version : 2.7
  Upstream Author : Paul Hammant
* URL : https://github.com/paul-hammant/paranamer
* License : BSD-3-clause
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : Java based library to access method parameter names at 
runtime

Paranamer is a library that allows the parameter names of non-private
methods and constructors to be accessed at runtime. Normally this
information is dropped by the compiler. With the advent of advanced
scripting languages and web action frameworks for the Java Virtual
Machine it is of increasing importance to be able to leverage a
method's parameter names.  Scripting languages like Groovy  JRuby,
web action frameworks like Waffle and VRaptor and the compelling
Grails as well as SOAP and REST designs could also benefit.

This is the reintroduction of Paranamer to Debian because it is a
dependency of Picocontainer which in turn is needed for the latest
version of Robocode, an educational Java programming game. I intend to
maintain the package as part of the Java team.


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Bug#766256: ITP: libcodesize-java -- Java library to calculate the size of code for Robocode

2014-10-21 Thread Markus Koschany

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Markus Koschany a...@gambaru.de

* Package name: libcodesize-java
  Version : 1.1
  Upstream Author : Christian D. Schnell, Flemming N. Larsen
* URL : http://www.robowiki.net/wiki/Code_Size
* License : CPL-1.0
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : Java library to calculate the size of code for Robocode


Codesize is a tool for calculating the code size of a Java classfile
or Java archive (JAR). Code size is important to you if you want to
make Robots for the smaller weight classes. It can be challenging,
educational, frustrating or all at once to reduce the code to the
targeted level.

This is a new dependency of Robocode, an educational Java programming
game. I intend to maintain this package as part of the Java team.


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Re: aptitude dependency-resolver behaviors (was Re: apt-get install sysvinit-core removes gnome?)

2014-10-21 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Ma, 21 oct 14, 09:08:26, The Wanderer wrote:
 
 What I think is being asked for (and what I'd certainly like to see,
 anyway) is a way for the user, having figured out which packages they
 don't want removed, to tell the aptitude resolver that and have it taken
 into account in calculating a dependency solution.
 
 As it happens, there's an obvious way to do that: specify the package(s)
 you don't want removed on the aptitude command line.

It's also possible to do it in interactive mode.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Peace of Mind (Please, give us some!)

2014-10-21 Thread Fabiano Antunes

Hello, fellows.

First, I'm correcting the misspelling of the God dammit subject. I'm
not a native English speaker, but since it's the so called universal
language to communicate with everyone else subscribed to it, I think
everyone should, at least, check grammar and spelling before submitting
messages to the list, so that we're all able to communicate using the
same, correct *code*.

Second, it is my belief that everyone (or at least, most people)
subscribed to this list is interested in Debian development specific
topics. Please, stop flooding this list with non-development, babling
and
crying-over-my-pillow-because-the-debian-project-is-not-taking-care-of-my-sorry-ass-needs-related
stuff.

Third, *systemd* issue has been, as many here pointed before me,
througly discussed in several opportunities - and IMHO, adoption of
software in releases is *not* directly _development_ related, being,
instead, maybe administrative, project or something else. If such a
list does not exist, I'd recommend it to be created, so that there would
be a specific list for people to send their oppinion regarding those
concerns to.

Fourth, AFAIK - and please, correct me if I'm wrong - this list should
be more concerned about improving collaborative work and software in the
Debian Project, with information, with elder/senior/more experienced
developers helping/guiding/providing orientation for younger/newcomer
developers, and discussions about software functionality (and I mean
*functionality*, not *adoption/choice*) and implementation. Again, I
wouldn't mind receiving tons of e-mails containing technical information
regarding software development, but I'm not interested in a single mail
regarding why you are so sad that Debian Project picked systemd or even
an 90 year-old lady to control your system services. I'm not advocating
in favour of either *here* because I don't thnk this is the purpose of
this list.

Fifth, please, Google for and read about *netiquette*, mostly regarding
*subject* and start writting consistent, direct, specific subjects.

Best regards,
Fabiano.

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Re: LSB headers and other junk, how do you hack a quick init script in debian these days?

2014-10-21 Thread Ralf Jung

Hi,

 I write a systemd unit file. It’s smaller, faster to write, easier to
 understand and works more reliably. 
 
 And it is also a bug to not have an init script since we still have
 ports that do not use systemd.

And this is also completely irrelevant as the question was about quickly
hacking something together for local use.
If it were about a package, then he would have to put stuff into
/etc/init.d anyway, and add LSB headers, etc. In other words, it would
work with systemd without him changing his habits.

Of course, Michael, you can also always choose not to use systemd,
should you wish to do so. It's not like that is complicated:
$ aptitude install systemd-sysv- sysvinit-core systemd-shim

Kind regards
Ralf


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Re: Accepted tasksel 3.29 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Joey Hess

Josselin Mouette wrote:
 GNOME works on all Linux architectures.
 
 GNOME *without hardware 3D* will probably have big trouble running
 anywhere but on i386 and amd64.
 So in the real world, it depends on the architectures: 
   * real-world desktop powerpc hardware comes with hardware 3D and
 free drivers 
   * real-world ARM hardware comes with hardware 3D and non-free
 drivers 
   * not sure for mips* and s390

#765839 has it tested failing on multiple real-world ARM hardware
(with proprietary 3D drivers).

Specific information about eg, powerpc hardware that can and cannot
support it would be useful.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Accepted tasksel 3.29 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Adam Borowski

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 07:46:25PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
 Santiago Vila sanv...@unex.es wrote: 
 * Gnome only works on i386 and amd64, so default to xfce on 
 other arches.
   Closes: #765839 Thanks, Adam Borowski for testing.
 
 Gnome only works on i386 and amd64?
 
 GNOME works on all Linux architectures.

Compiles yes, works not really.

 GNOME *without hardware 3D* will probably have big trouble running
 anywhere but on i386 and amd64.

This means it's useless for most developer and sysadmin work.  I for one
have only two non-phone computers currently attached to a monitor, yet for
example this machine I sit before right now has 23 full-system virtual
machines using four different virtualization/emulation methods with a
plethora of test setups inside (only 8 Debian...).  This count is so low
only because I use chroots/vservers for most work...  Five other machines
(two physical, three vservers) in the room and cellar have GUI installed,
reachable via ssh -X or via VNC.   I guess this is typical for a person
of our kind.

And you're trying to tell me that having to use a non-default desktop
environment on all these virtual machines is ok?  Even those whose very
purpose is to test programs on such environments?

 So in the real world, it depends on the architectures: 
   * real-world desktop powerpc hardware comes with hardware 3D and
 free drivers 

I have little clue there, I'm afraid.  I remember receiving a bug report (on
crawl-tiles which uses opengl) from a powerpc person whose graphics card
didn't sound like one of the Big Three, but that's all I know.

A description of a newest-and-greatest powerpc/ppc64el beef linked from
Slashdot today included on-board graphics -- that's a server-type box.

Some input from a person owning a physical powerpc machine could shed some
light here.

   * real-world ARM hardware comes with hardware 3D and non-free
 drivers 

I have personally tested two distinct boxes with Mali GPU:
* Odroid U2
* Omega OAN133 (laptop)

The Mali 3D driver is non-free and not packaged in Debian.  On U2, I took
pre-made packages (hardkernel community), on Omega it's sunxi-mali.


I can also try Broadcom on a certain infamous armel/half-armhf machine, but
it'll take ages.


As for other SoCs, we got quite a few people who work with ARM
professionally.  Wookey and co, please enlighten us!

   * not sure for mips* and s390

s390 doesn't have real display, so all GUI comes in the form of VNC and
such.  Which works in software.

As for mips, I _did_ see it do awesome OpenGL stuff, 1.5 decades ago!
I'm afraid I know nothing more recent :/

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Re: Accepted tasksel 3.29 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Ben Hutchings

On Tue, 2014-10-21 at 23:40 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 07:46:25PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
  Santiago Vila sanv...@unex.es wrote: 
  * Gnome only works on i386 and amd64, so default to xfce on 
  other arches.
Closes: #765839 Thanks, Adam Borowski for testing.
  
  Gnome only works on i386 and amd64?
  
  GNOME works on all Linux architectures.
 
 Compiles yes, works not really.
 
  GNOME *without hardware 3D* will probably have big trouble running
  anywhere but on i386 and amd64.
 
 This means it's useless for most developer and sysadmin work.
[...]

Did you read that correctly?   GNOME Shell *does* work on x86 systems
without 3D acceleration, and I don't think 'most' developers or
sysadmins run GUIs on non-x86 machines.

That's not to say that this isn't a real limitation.  It would certainly
be good to have GNOME fully working on all our architectures again, and
particularly MIPS laptop and desktop systems.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Reality is just a crutch for people who can't handle science fiction.


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Adam Borowski

[Sorry for slow response, testing this on one's main machine requires
dropping too much state...]  I should have CCed the bug earlier, doing this
now.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 08:37:04PM -0700, Cameron Norman wrote:
  * the Utopia stack (restart, shutdown, suspend, hibernate, mounting USB
drives, etc from GUI (with low-level tools like pm-utils working)).
This is supposed to be handled by systemd-shim which doesn't currently
work for me, but some folks report it being ok.
 
 What versions (of shim and cgmgr) did you try it with? I thought these
 types of issues were fixed in Sid :/

I just retested, with current unstable (ie, 8-3 and 0.33-2).  Same results
as week ago (when shim was uploaded):

On lightdm screen, reboot/shutdown/etc are grayed out.
As a logged-in user:
* suspend/hibernate are _not_ grayed out (as they were some time ago), but
  show an error: Failed to suspend session
  GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied: Permission denied
* reboot/shutdown log me out instead, back to lightdm
I forgot to check mounting USB drives this time.


On the other hand, on a semi-fresh virtual machine (d-i beta 1), shim 8-3
started to work correctly.

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Re: MBF: What is the status of /usr/share/texmf/doc ?

2014-10-21 Thread Atsuhito Kohda

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:13:45 +0200, Hilmar Preusse hill...@web.de wrote:

 Found more two packages in non-free:
 
 sid:~# zgrep usr/share/doc/texmf/ 
 /var/cache/apt/apt-file/ftp.de.debian.org_debian_dists_*|awk -F   '{print 
 $2}'|sort|uniq
 non-free/doc/context-doc-nonfree
 non-free/tex/foiltex
 
 I guess the first is our task.

And the second is my task ;-)
Thanks for your notification.

Best regards,   2014-10-22(Wed)

-- 
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 Atsuhito Kohda kohda AT debian.org
 Department of Math., Tokushima Univ.


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Cameron Norman

El mar, 21 de oct 2014 a las 7:03 , Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org 
escribió:

The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote:
This is the problem. The init system should not be providing 
features
which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown, want 
to make use
of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly all? - of 
the other
init-system candidates don't either.) Such features should be 
provided
separately, independent of what may happen to be running as 
PID 1.


These features cannot exist separately. Quoting the systemd position
statement:

[…] while it is true that a handful of trivial interfaces are not 
really

related to systemd (and could be split out if needed), most of these
features cannot be implemented without close integration to PID 1. It 
is

not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
of how the service was launched. Et caetera.


Upstart can launch processes in cgroups using cgmanager since version 
1.13. Few things are truly impossible with programming, and making 
certain functions be implemented independent of or outside of PID 1 
does not come close to impossible.


Also, I do not understand the log statement. Once again, Upstart can 
hook up a job's stdout/err to a file in /var/log/upstart/, but I am not 
exactly sure what was being said so maybe I missed the point.


Cheers,
--
Cameron

Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:23:39PM -0700, Cameron Norman wrote:
 El mar, 21 de oct 2014 a las 7:03 , Josselin Mouette
 j...@debian.org escribió:
 The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote:
 This is the problem. The init system should not be
 providing features
 which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown,
 want to make use
 of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly all? -
 of the other
 init-system candidates don't either.) Such features should
 be provided
 separately, independent of what may happen to be running
 as PID 1.
 
 These features cannot exist separately. Quoting the systemd position
 statement:
 
 […] while it is true that a handful of trivial interfaces are not
 really
 related to systemd (and could be split out if needed), most of these
 features cannot be implemented without close integration to PID 1.
 It is
 not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
 which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
 ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
 of how the service was launched. Et caetera.
 
 Upstart can launch processes in cgroups using cgmanager since
 version 1.13. Few things are truly impossible with programming, and
 making certain functions be implemented independent of or outside of
 PID 1 does not come close to impossible.
 
 Also, I do not understand the log statement. Once again, Upstart can
 hook up a job's stdout/err to a file in /var/log/upstart/, but I am
 not exactly sure what was being said so maybe I missed the point.
[Speaking as systemd developer] the way I understand the argument,
this is also a no-no, because the init system should not interfere with
logging in any way. So upstart violates this requirement too.

OTOH, just intercepting writes to stdout and stderr is not enough.
A lot (most?) daemons use syslog(), and journald uses the knowledge
of how PID1 arranges the cgroup layout to relate PIDs back to units
and annotates messages with service information. Without this integration
things like 'journalctl --unit=' would not work.

BTW., I've always wondered, but been to lazy to properly investigate.
how does upstart deal with rotation of those log files in
/var/log/upstart? Is it necessary to restart a daemon if it logs too
many lines?

Zbyszek


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Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 05:12:56PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
 On Tue, 2014-10-21 at 16:03 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
  The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: 
  This is the problem. The init system should not be providing 
  features
  which other software might, post-boot and pre-shutdown, want to 
  make use
  of. (AFAIK sysvinit never did, and most - possibly all? - of the 
  other
  init-system candidates don't either.) Such features should be 
  provided
  separately, independent of what may happen to be running as PID 1.
  
  These features cannot exist separately. Quoting the systemd position
  statement:
  
  […] while it is true that a handful of trivial interfaces are not really
  related to systemd (and could be split out if needed), most of these
  features cannot be implemented without close integration to PID 1. It is
  not possible to split the system cgroups arbitrator from the process
  which starts services and sessions in cgroups. It is not possible to
  ensure the relation of a log to a service if you do not have awareness
  of how the service was launched. Et caetera. 
 
 How is uselessd solving this then?

It's not. It simply breaks this functionality, and a lot of other
functionality.

(I just skimmed the useless.de.net page today, so I can give some more
examples, apart from the most obvious cgroups and integrated logging.

Based on the description:

- uselessd removes swap and mount units, simply calling mount and swapon 
directly.
This of course means that if the mount or swap is done by other means
the manager will not be aware of it. It probably also means that the
manager is not aware of alternative names for mount- and swap-points,
so if you say LABEL=... it will not know that /dev/dm-11 is the same thing.

- uselessd removes the integration with udev, so hardware activation is
probably gone

- uselessd simply calls fsck to do fsck, so checking of devices as they
appear and only if they are needed is also gone

... etc.)

Zbyszek


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Re: piece of mind

On 10/21/2014 at 11:39 AM, Matthias Klumpp wrote:

 2014-10-21 17:24 GMT+02:00 Robert Lemmen rober...@semistable.com:
 
 hi matthias,
 
 On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:35:20PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:

 first place. Having ten processes responsible for bitspieces of
 what systemd-as-PID1 does instead of one isn't a benefit -- not
 if all you gain by that is nine additional processes.
 
 It's a big monolithic thing, and big monolithic things are bad
 and evil and non-Unix-y, so there!!1! is not a valid argument.
 
 but that's the thing, to some (e.g. me) ten separate processes that
 each do a fairly small thing with understandable interfaces between
 them is an *enormous* benefit over one bigger thing that does all
 that in an integrated fashion. to the point that even if the one
 big thing would have nice,additional features, I would still opt
 for the decomposed one.
 
 Well, you just now described systemd. The systemd project develops
 many small tools which do one thing ant interact together via
 defined interfaces.
 The init daemon is a bit more powerful that sysvinit, but it still
 only does what it is supposed to do: Starting, stopping and
 monitoring services. The other tools under the systemd umbrella do
 different things.

Is that really what the init daemon is supposed to do?

At a glance at the sysvinit source, it doesn't look to me like
/sbin/init itself does service management, in the starting, stopping
and monitoring services form; at most, it seems to handle some subset
of the monitoring part, in the form of noticing when something has
died abnormally. (Which goes well beyond just services, when necessary.)

From what I can see, it looks as if sysvinit's service management is
actually handled pretty much entirely by sysv-rc, which is not PID 1.

If that's correct, and if the systemd PID 1 binary handles service
management, then that's something it's doing which the init daemon
itself has not traditionally done. Which doesn't automatically mean that
it shouldn't, but which does seem to eliminate the argument that it
only does what [the init daemon is] supposed to do.


Looking at the sysvinit source for this, and thinking about the
differences in relation to systemd, has led me to come up with some
ideas in regard to possible init-system-et-al. design which I think may
be interesting enough to be worth pursuing or at least discussing.
However, that discussion would cease entirely to be remotely on-topic
for debian-devel (even to whatever extent this entire thread isn't
already offtopic).

Any suggestions for a place where such discussion would be welcome or
at least acceptable, and where it would reach people who are
experienced with or at least interested in the design and
implementation of init systems? (I suspect that the systemd development
forums would satisfy the latter criterion but would not satisfy the
former.)

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: piece of mind

2014-10-21 Thread Russ Allbery

The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm writes:

 At a glance at the sysvinit source, it doesn't look to me like
 /sbin/init itself does service management, in the starting, stopping
 and monitoring services form; at most, it seems to handle some subset
 of the monitoring part, in the form of noticing when something has
 died abnormally. (Which goes well beyond just services, when necessary.)

/etc/inittab is exactly starting, stopping, and monitoring services.  It's
just so bad of an implementation of the concept that people long ago
started layering another system on top and invoking it via /etc/inittab.
But I know folks who still use /etc/inittab instead of other things
layered on top precisely because it's more reliable to have PID 1 handle
the starting, stopping, and monitoring.  Even though sysvinit is missing
basically every feature that you would want from something that does this.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/


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Accepted liboping 1.7.0-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Barak A. Pearlmutter

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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 06:56:06 +0100
Source: liboping
Binary: liboping-dev liboping0 oping libnet-oping-perl
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.7.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Sebastian Harl tok...@debian.org
Changed-By: Barak A. Pearlmutter b...@debian.org
Description:
 libnet-oping-perl - module for ICMP latency measurement
 liboping-dev - C/C++ library to generate ICMP ECHO_REQUESTs (development files)
 liboping0  - C/C++ library to generate ICMP ECHO_REQUESTs
 oping  - sends ICMP_ECHO requests to network hosts
Changes:
 liboping (1.7.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * Remove quilt patches, functionality is upstream
   * Bump standards version, no changes required
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Accepted ardour 1:2.8.16+git20131003-4 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Jaromír Mikeš

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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 02:35:29 +0200
Source: ardour
Binary: ardour ardour-dbg ardour-altivec ardour-i686
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1:2.8.16+git20131003-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Multimedia Maintainers 
pkg-multimedia-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Jaromír Mikeš mira.mi...@seznam.cz
Description:
 ardour - digital audio workstation (graphical gtk2 interface)
 ardour-altivec - digital audio workstation (graphical gtk2 interface) [altivec]
 ardour-dbg - digital audio workstation (debug)
 ardour-i686 - digital audio workstation (graphical gtk2 interface) [i686]
Closes: 749363
Changes:
 ardour (1:2.8.16+git20131003-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Upload to unstable.
   * Bump Standards.
   * Add exec-code to desktop files.
   * Update copyright file. (Closes: #749363)
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Accepted hdf-eos4 2.19v1.00+dfsg.1-2 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Alastair McKinstry

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Architecture: source amd64
Version: 2.19v1.00+dfsg.1-2
Distribution: sid
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Alastair McKinstry mckins...@debian.org
Changed-By: Alastair McKinstry mckins...@debian.org
Description:
 libhdfeos-dev - Development files for the HDF-EOS4 library
 libhdfeos0 - Earth Observation System extensions to HDF4
Changes:
 hdf-eos4 (2.19v1.00+dfsg.1-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Depend on libtool-bin not libtool. Roles have reversed.
   * Now at Standards-Version: 3.9.6
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Accepted bley 2.0.0-1 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Evgeni Golov

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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:33:50 +0200
Source: bley
Binary: bley
Architecture: source all
Version: 2.0.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Evgeni Golov evg...@debian.org
Changed-By: Evgeni Golov evg...@debian.org
Description:
 bley   - intelligent greylisting daemon for Postfix and Exim
Changes:
 bley (2.0.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Imported Upstream version 2.0.0
   * Standards-Version: 3.9.6
   * X-Python-Version: = 2.6
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Accepted zim 0.62-2 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Raphaël Hertzog

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:54:43 +0200
Source: zim
Binary: zim
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.62-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Emfox Zhou em...@debian.org
Changed-By: Raphaël Hertzog hert...@debian.org
Description:
 zim- graphical text editor based on wiki technologies
Changes:
 zim (0.62-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Cherry pick an upstream patch that fixes a small regression
 with keybindings.
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Accepted libjogl2-java 2.2.4-1 (source all amd64) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Emmanuel Bourg

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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:07:42 +0200
Source: libjogl2-java
Binary: libjogl2-java libjogl2-jni libjogl2-java-doc libjogl2-toolkits
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 2.2.4-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers 
pkg-java-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Emmanuel Bourg ebo...@apache.org
Description:
 libjogl2-java - Java bindings for OpenGL API
 libjogl2-java-doc - Documentation for the Java bindings for OpenGL
 libjogl2-jni - Java bindings for OpenGL API (JNI lib)
 libjogl2-toolkits - Toolkits to play with JOGL2
Changes:
 libjogl2-java (2.2.4-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Team upload.
   * New upstream release
 - Depend on gluegen = 2.2.4
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Accepted jsoup 1.8.1-1 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Emmanuel Bourg

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:48:35 +0200
Source: jsoup
Binary: libjsoup-java libjsoup-java-doc
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.8.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers 
pkg-java-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Emmanuel Bourg ebo...@apache.org
Description:
 libjsoup-java - Java HTML parser that makes sense of real-world HTML soup
 libjsoup-java-doc - Documentation for jsoup HTML Parser
Changes:
 jsoup (1.8.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * Refreshed the patch
   * Added animal-sniffer-maven-plugin to the ignored plugins
   * Standards-Version updated to 3.9.6 (no changes)
   * debian/copyright: Removed the space in the short name of CC-BY-SA-3.0
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Accepted pyhoca-cli 0.5.0.1-1 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Mike Gabriel

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:23:54 +0200
Source: pyhoca-cli
Binary: pyhoca-cli
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.5.0.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: X2Go Packaging Team pkg-x2go-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Mike Gabriel sunwea...@debian.org
Description:
 pyhoca-cli - Command line X2Go client written in Python
Changes:
 pyhoca-cli (0.5.0.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
   * debian/control:
 + Don't use subfolder x2go/ on Alioth's collab-maint anymore.
 + Raise versioned D (pyhoca-cli): python-x2go (= 0.5.0.0).
 + Bump Standards: to 3.9.6. No changes needed.
 + Add to S (pyhoca-gui): mteleplayer-clientside (not yet in Debian).
 + Replace LDAP support by session brokerage support in 
LONG_DESCRIPTION.
   * debian/upstream/changelog:
 + Stop manually shipping upstream ChangeLog files anymore. From now on
   provided in upstream tarball.
   * debian/copyright:
 + Update copyright years.
   * debian/rules:
 + Update copyright date in file header.
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Accepted kalgebra 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:37 +0200
Source: kalgebra
Binary: kalgebra kalgebramobile kalgebra-common kalgebra-dbg
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 kalgebra   - algebraic graphing calculator
 kalgebra-common - contains files common for kalgebra and kalgebramobile
 kalgebra-dbg - debugging symbols for the KDE education module
 kalgebramobile - algebraic graphing calculator for small touch based interfaces
Changes:
 kalgebra (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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kalgebra_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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kalgebra_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kalgebramobile_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kalgebra-common_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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Accepted ktouch 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64 all) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:12:51 +0200
Source: ktouch
Binary: ktouch ktouch-data
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian/Ubuntu Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 ktouch - touch typing tutor for KDE
 ktouch-data - data files for ktouch
Changes:
 ktouch (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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ktouch_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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Accepted okteta 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:38 +0200
Source: okteta
Binary: okteta okteta-dev libkasten2controllers2 libkasten2core2 libkasten2gui2 
libokteta1core1 libokteta1gui1 libkasten2okteta1controllers1abi1 
libkasten2okteta1core1 libkasten2okteta1gui1
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 libkasten2controllers2 - controllers Kasten library for Okteta
 libkasten2core2 - core Kasten library for Okteta
 libkasten2gui2 - gui Kasten library for Okteta
 libkasten2okteta1controllers1abi1 - kastencontrollers library for Okteta
 libkasten2okteta1core1 - kastencore library for Okteta
 libkasten2okteta1gui1 - kastengui library for Okteta
 libokteta1core1 - core Okteta library
 libokteta1gui1 - gui Okteta library
 okteta - hexadecimal editor for binary files
 okteta-dev - Development files for Okteta
Changes:
 okteta (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
   * Update install files.
Checksums-Sha1:
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okteta_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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okteta-dev_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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libkasten2controllers2_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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libkasten2core2_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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libkasten2gui2_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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libokteta1core1_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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libokteta1gui1_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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Accepted audiocd-kio 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64 all) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:40 +0200
Source: audiocd-kio
Binary: kio-audiocd kio-audiocd-dev kdemultimedia-kio-plugins kdemultimedia-dev 
kio-audiocd-dbg
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 kdemultimedia-dev - transitional package for KDE multimedia development 
packages
 kdemultimedia-kio-plugins - transitional package for kio-audiocd
 kio-audiocd - transparent audio CD access for applications using the KDE Platfo
 kio-audiocd-dbg - debugging symbols for the audio CD KIO plugin
 kio-audiocd-dev - development files for the audio CD KIO plugin
Changes:
 audiocd-kio (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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audiocd-kio_4.14.2.orig.tar.xz
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audiocd-kio_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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kio-audiocd_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kio-audiocd-dev_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kdemultimedia-kio-plugins_4.14.2-1_all.deb
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kdemultimedia-dev_4.14.2-1_all.deb
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kio-audiocd-dbg_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb

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Accepted cantor 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:24 +0200
Source: cantor
Binary: cantor cantor-backend-kalgebra cantor-backend-maxima 
cantor-backend-octave cantor-backend-python2 cantor-backend-qalculate 
cantor-backend-r cantor-backend-sage cantor-backend-scilab cantor-backend-lua 
cantor-dbg
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 cantor - interface for mathematical applications
 cantor-backend-kalgebra - KAlgebra backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-lua - Lua backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-maxima - Maxima backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-octave - Octave backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-python2 - Python backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-qalculate - Qalculate! backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-r - R backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-sage - Sage backend for Cantor
 cantor-backend-scilab - Scilab backend for Cantor
 cantor-dbg - debugging symbols for cantor
Changes:
 cantor (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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Accepted eweouz 0.9 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Tollef Fog Heen

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:05:38 +0200
Source: eweouz
Binary: eweouz
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.9
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Tollef Fog Heen tfh...@debian.org
Changed-By: Tollef Fog Heen tfh...@debian.org
Description:
 eweouz - Emacs interface to Evolution Data Server
Closes: 728072 754010
Changes:
 eweouz (0.9) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Switch Depends to emacs | emacsen instead of hard coding version
 numbers.  Closes: #754010
   * Add dh-autoreconf to Build-Depends.
   * Ship README.  Closes: #728072
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Accepted distro-info 0.14 (source amd64 all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Benjamin Drung

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:09:57 +0200
Source: distro-info
Binary: distro-info libdistro-info-perl python-distro-info python3-distro-info
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 0.14
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Benjamin Drung bdr...@debian.org
Changed-By: Benjamin Drung bdr...@debian.org
Description:
 distro-info - provides information about the distributions' releases
 libdistro-info-perl - information about distributions' releases (Perl module)
 python-distro-info - information about distributions' releases (Python module)
 python3-distro-info - information about distributions' releases (Python 3 
module)
Closes: 766142
Changes:
 distro-info (0.14) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fix days in month calculation for leap years (Closes: #766142)
   * Bump Standards-Version to 3.9.6
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Accepted directfb 1.2.10.0-5.1 (source i386) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Hector Oron

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 13:51:00 +0200
Source: directfb
Binary: libdirectfb-1.2-9 libdirectfb-1.2-9-udeb libdirectfb-bin 
libdirectfb-bin-udeb libdirectfb-extra libdirectfb-dev libdirectfb-1.2-9-dbg 
libdirectfb-bin-dbg libdirectfb-extra-dbg
Architecture: source i386
Version: 1.2.10.0-5.1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian DirectFB Team pkg-directfb-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Hector Oron zu...@debian.org
Description:
 libdirectfb-1.2-9 - direct frame buffer graphics - shared libraries
 libdirectfb-1.2-9-dbg - direct frame buffer graphics - shared libraries debug 
symbols
 libdirectfb-1.2-9-udeb - direct frame buffer graphics - shared libraries (udeb)
 libdirectfb-bin - direct frame buffer graphics - binaries
 libdirectfb-bin-dbg - direct frame buffer graphics - binaries debug symbols
 libdirectfb-bin-udeb - direct frame buffer graphics - binaries (udeb)
 libdirectfb-dev - direct frame buffer graphics library - development files
 libdirectfb-extra - direct frame buffer graphics - extra providers
 libdirectfb-extra-dbg - direct frame buffer graphics - extra provider debug 
symbols
Changes:
 directfb (1.2.10.0-5.1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Non-maintainer upload.
   * d/control: drop build depend on libts-dev.
   * d/libdirectfb-1.2-9.install.*: drop install libdirectfb_tslib.so
   * d/libdirectfb-dev.install.*: drop install libdirectfb_tslib.a
   * d/control: bump Standards-Version to 3.9.6 (no changes needed).
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libdirectfb-1.2-9_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.deb
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libdirectfb-1.2-9-udeb_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.udeb
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libdirectfb-bin_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.deb
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libdirectfb-bin-udeb_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.udeb
 86610d7b411b93efe789e6daac74909c 31892 libs optional 
libdirectfb-extra_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.deb
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libdirectfb-dev_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.deb
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libdirectfb-1.2-9-dbg_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.deb
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libdirectfb-bin-dbg_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.deb
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libdirectfb-extra-dbg_1.2.10.0-5.1_i386.deb
Package-Type: udeb

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Accepted filelight 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:29 +0200
Source: filelight
Binary: filelight
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 filelight  - show where your diskspace is being used
Changes:
 filelight (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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filelight_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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 80f58f68485d76346563d74db80a8415 287008 kde optional 
filelight_4.14.2.orig.tar.xz
 b0dae1b123fe4dbacfca057542ade76c 2512 kde optional 
filelight_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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filelight_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb

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Accepted gnome-panel 3.8.1-6 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-21 Thread Dmitry Shachnev

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:52:46 +0400
Source: gnome-panel
Binary: gir1.2-panelapplet-4.0 gnome-panel gnome-panel-data gnome-panel-dbg 
gnome-session-fallback gnome-session-flashback libpanel-applet-4-0 
libpanel-applet-4-dev libpanel-applet-4-doc
Architecture: source all
Version: 3.8.1-6
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 
pkg-gnome-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Dmitry Shachnev mity...@debian.org
Description:
 gir1.2-panelapplet-4.0 - GObject introspection for the GNOME Panel Applet 
library
 gnome-panel - launcher and docking facility for GNOME
 gnome-panel-data - common files for the GNOME Panel
 gnome-panel-dbg - GNOME Panel and library for panel applets - debugging symbols
 gnome-session-fallback - GNOME Session Manager - GNOME Flashback (transitional 
package)
 gnome-session-flashback - GNOME Session Manager - GNOME Flashback session
 libpanel-applet-4-0 - library for GNOME Panel applets
 libpanel-applet-4-dev - library for GNOME Panel applets - development files
 libpanel-applet-4-doc - library for GNOME Panel applets - documentation files
Changes:
 gnome-panel (3.8.1-6) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Build-depend on gobject-introspection 1.41.4-1~ as this is
 the first version installing files into multiarch location.
   * Do not ship Compiz session.
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libpanel-applet-4-doc_3.8.1-6_all.deb

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Accepted granatier 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:07 +0200
Source: granatier
Binary: granatier
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 granatier  - Bomberman clone
Changes:
 granatier (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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granatier_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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granatier_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb

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Accepted juk 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:10 +0200
Source: juk
Binary: juk
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 juk- music jukebox / music player
Changes:
 juk (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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Accepted jovie 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64 all) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:17 +0200
Source: jovie
Binary: jovie kttsd jovie-dbg
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 jovie  - text-to-speech system
 jovie-dbg  - debugging symbols for jovie
 kttsd  - transitional package for jovie
Changes:
 jovie (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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Accepted gwenview 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:16 +0200
Source: gwenview
Binary: gwenview gwenview-dbg
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 gwenview   - image viewer
 gwenview-dbg - debugging symbols for the gwenview
Changes:
 gwenview (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
Checksums-Sha1:
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gwenview-dbg_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
Checksums-Sha256:
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gwenview_4.14.2-1.dsc
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gwenview_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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gwenview_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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gwenview-dbg_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
Files:
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 63ef4c9eb8992cb7198c43d70268bdb1 2910664 kde optional 
gwenview_4.14.2.orig.tar.xz
 da9f9311aa5af15f26713876bb8395f3 5544 kde optional 
gwenview_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
 7eef8e32f1463b627fca3379a6870c17 2934274 graphics optional 
gwenview_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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gwenview-dbg_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb

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Accepted kalzium 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64 all) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:34 +0200
Source: kalzium
Binary: kalzium kalzium-data kalzium-dbg
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 kalzium- periodic table and chemistry tools
 kalzium-data - data files for Kalzium
 kalzium-dbg - debugging symbols for the Kalzium
Changes:
 kalzium (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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kalzium_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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 d574eda78effa33148cf97a4ff3150ca 3945356 kde optional 
kalzium_4.14.2.orig.tar.xz
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kalzium_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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kalzium_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kalzium-data_4.14.2-1_all.deb
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kalzium-dbg_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb

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Accepted kamera 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:39 +0200
Source: kamera
Binary: kamera kamera-dbg
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 kamera - digital camera support for KDE applications
 kamera-dbg - debugging symbols for kamera
Changes:
 kamera (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
Checksums-Sha1:
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kamera_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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kamera_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kamera-dbg_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
Files:
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 467dead9aac5fb1b84f338573d85781c 35328 kde optional kamera_4.14.2.orig.tar.xz
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kamera_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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kamera_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kamera-dbg_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb

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Accepted kblocks 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:33 +0200
Source: kblocks
Binary: kblocks
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 kblocks- falling blocks game
Changes:
 kblocks (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
Checksums-Sha1:
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kblocks_4.14.2-1.dsc
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kblocks_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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kblocks_4.14.2.orig.tar.xz
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kblocks_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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kblocks_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb

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Accepted kde-baseapps 4:4.14.2-1 (source all amd64) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:05 +0200
Source: kde-baseapps
Binary: kde-baseapps kdebase-apps dolphin kde-baseapps-bin kdebase-bin 
kde-baseapps-data kdepasswd kfind konqueror konqueror-nsplugins konq-plugins 
libkonq5abi1 libkonq-common libkonq5-templates libkonq5-dev 
libkonqsidebarplugin4a libkonqsidebarplugin-dev plasma-widget-folderview 
kde-baseapps-dbg kdebase-dbg
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 dolphin- file manager
 kde-baseapps - base applications from the official KDE release (meta-package)
 kde-baseapps-bin - core binaries for the KDE base applications
 kde-baseapps-data - shared data files for the KDE base applications
 kde-baseapps-dbg - debugging symbols for the KDE base applications module
 kdebase-apps - Transitional package for kde-baseapps
 kdebase-bin - Transitional package for new kde-baseapps
 kdebase-dbg - Transitional package for kde-baseapps-dbg
 kdepasswd  - graphical password changing utility
 kfind  - file search utility
 konq-plugins - plugins for Konqueror, the KDE file/web/document browser
 konqueror  - advanced file manager, web browser and document viewer
 konqueror-nsplugins - Netscape plugin support for Konqueror
 libkonq-common - core Konqueror library - support files
 libkonq5-dev - development files for the Konqueror libraries
 libkonq5-templates - data files for the Konqueror libraries
 libkonq5abi1 - core libraries for Konqueror
 libkonqsidebarplugin-dev - konqueror sidebar plugin library development files
 libkonqsidebarplugin4a - konqueror sidebar plugin library
 plasma-widget-folderview - plasma widget showing the content of a folder
Changes:
 kde-baseapps (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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kdepasswd_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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Accepted kdegraphics-mobipocket 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:22 +0200
Source: kdegraphics-mobipocket
Binary: kdegraphics-mobipocket libqmobipocket1 libqmobipocket-dev
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 kdegraphics-mobipocket - mobipocket plugins for Strigi indexing and thumbnails
 libqmobipocket-dev - library for reading Mobipocket documents
 libqmobipocket1 - library for reading Mobipocket documents
Changes:
 kdegraphics-mobipocket (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
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kdegraphics-mobipocket_4.14.2-1.dsc
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kdegraphics-mobipocket_4.14.2.orig.tar.xz
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kdegraphics-mobipocket_4.14.2-1.debian.tar.xz
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kdegraphics-mobipocket_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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libqmobipocket1_4.14.2-1_amd64.deb
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Accepted kdepimlibs 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:13:26 +0200
Source: kdepimlibs
Binary: kdepimlibs5-dev kdepimlibs-kio-plugins libakonadi-contact4 
libakonadi-kabc4 libakonadi-kcal4 libakonadi-kde4 libakonadi-kmime4 
libakonadi-socialutils4 libakonadi-notes4 libakonadi-xml4 libgpgme++2 libkabc4 
libkblog4 libkalarmcal2 libkcal4 libkcalcore4 libkcalutils4 libkholidays4 
libkimap4 libkldap4 libkmbox4 libakonadi-calendar4 libkmime4 
libkontactinterface4a libkpimidentities4 libkpimtextedit4 libkpimutils4 
libkresources4 libktnef4 libkxmlrpcclient4 libmailtransport4 libmicroblog4 
libqgpgme1 libsyndication4 kdepimlibs-dbg
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4:4.14.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Maximiliano Curia m...@debian.org
Description:
 kdepimlibs-dbg - debugging symbols for the KDE Development Platform PIM 
libraries
 kdepimlibs-kio-plugins - kio slaves used by KDE PIM applications
 kdepimlibs5-dev - development files for the KDE Development Platform PIM 
libraries
 libakonadi-calendar4 - library providing calendar helpers for Akonadi items
 libakonadi-contact4 - Akonadi contacts access library
 libakonadi-kabc4 - Akonadi address book access library
 libakonadi-kcal4 - Akonadi calendar access library
 libakonadi-kde4 - library for using the Akonadi PIM data server
 libakonadi-kmime4 - Akonadi MIME handling library
 libakonadi-notes4 - Akonadi notes access library
 libakonadi-socialutils4 - Akonadi resources for handling social feeds
 libakonadi-xml4 - Akonadi XML helper library
 libgpgme++2 - c++ wrapper library for gpgme
 libkabc4   - library for handling address book data
 libkalarmcal2 - library for handling kalarm calendar data
 libkblog4  - client-side support library for web application remote blogging A
 libkcal4   - library for handling calendar data
 libkcalcore4 - library for handling calendar data
 libkcalutils4 - library with utility functions for the handling of calendar 
data
 libkholidays4 - holidays calculation library
 libkimap4  - library for handling IMAP data
 libkldap4  - library for accessing LDAP
 libkmbox4  - library for handling mbox mailboxes
 libkmime4  - library for handling MIME data
 libkontactinterface4a - Kontact interface library
 libkpimidentities4 - library for managing user identities
 libkpimtextedit4 - library that provides a textedit with PIM-specific features
 libkpimutils4 - library for dealing with email addresses
 libkresources4 - KDE Resource framework library
 libktnef4  - library for handling TNEF data
 libkxmlrpcclient4 - simple XML-RPC client library
 libmailtransport4 - mail transport service library
 libmicroblog4 - library for using the Microblog Akonadi Resource
 libqgpgme1 - library for GpgME++ integration with Qt
 libsyndication4 - parser library for RSS and Atom feeds
Changes:
 kdepimlibs (4:4.14.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release (4.14.2).
   * Update symbols files from buildds logs (4:4.14.1-1).
   * Update symbols files.
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Accepted kig 4:4.14.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable