Re: Bug#752450: ftp.debian.org: please consider to strongly tighten the validity period of Release files

[Paul Wise]

[Dropping the bug, this is beginning to get OT]

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:56 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:

>  * We could run a lightweight polling service on Debian infrastructure
>which the computer could use to find out how out of date it is.

This makes me think of the AMQP stuff DSA has setup as well as the fedmsg bus.

https://wiki.debian.org/FedMsg
https://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=mirror/dsa-puppet.git;a=tree;f=modules/rabbitmq

>  * We could provide a separate command or tool or option to check for
>security updates - a tool which would _fail_ if the network and
>infrastructure was not sufficiently working.

debsecan exists (and daily mails the sysadmin about new security
updates, available security updates, fixed security issues and
security issues without updates) but it only prints errors in the
download process when run interactively:

http://sources.debian.net/src/debsecan/0.4.17/src/debsecan/#L512

I suppose the reason is that the Internet is flakey and this would
guarantee to annoy sysadmins world-wide, which might make them remove
or turn off debsecan.

>  * We could provide a configurable addition to the validity period.

apt already supports this.

>  * The security archive might want a different validity period.

This is already the case, but it has a longer validity period:

10 days: http://security.debian.org/dists/wheezy/updates/Release
7 days: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy-updates/Release
7 days: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/Release

>  * We might want automation which was capable of automatically
>shutting a server down into some kind of minimal maintenance mode,
>when it is unable to verify its own security support status.

That sounds like it would introduce a denial of service attack.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: Re: Arch-dependent files in /usr/share

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Russ Allbery:

I think it's worth considering  whether we should just dump the

> Lintian checks for arch-independent files in /usr/lib, and make a
> corresponding change to Policy that says that packages are free to
> put arch-independent files there.

It would as a side-effect make you better aligned with the systemd 
Filesystem Hierarchy Standard.  (-:


* http://freedesktop.org./software/systemd/man/file-hierarchy.html

"Static, private vendor data that is compatible with all architectures 
(though not necessarily architecture-independent)."



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Re: systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

Adam Borowski:
> If you can get as far as fully running grub (ie, the partition with /boot
> and thus usually / as well is readable), you can as well boot with the
> bestest init system Debian has: the mighty /bin/bash!
> 
The key word is "usually". If root is mountable, you could also start
systemd in emergency mode, which (via "systemctl start debug-shell")
allows you to observe why the boot fails without otherwise inter fering
with it.

If not (RAID config missing and thus mdadm not in the initramfs, encryption
setup borked, …), a shell won't help, no matter how mighty. ;-)

-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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Re: systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Adam Borowski]

On Mon, Nov 03, 2014 at 09:20:57PM +0100, Kristof Provost wrote:
> On 2014-11-03 19:05:51 (+0100), Marco d'Itri  wrote:
> > I like to keep advertising over and over the awesome grml-rescueboot 
> > package which automatically provides in GRUB a copy of the awesome GRML 
> > live CD for rescue purposes.
> > 
> Ooohh! Why did I not know about that? Thanks!

If you can get as far as fully running grub (ie, the partition with /boot
and thus usually / as well is readable), you can as well boot with the
bestest init system Debian has: the mighty /bin/bash!

That's less powerful than a full rescue CD (can't fsck.btrfs /, recover
from broken ld-linux or libc, etc), but has the advantage of being already
there (so sash is not an option).  init=/bin/bash has saved my bacon a few
times even with simple and reliable sysvinit, I can imagine how useful
it will be with a certain complex monstrosity.

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Re: dgit and git-dpm

[Bernhard R. Link]

* Ian Jackson  [141103 19:13]:
> The point is that the dgit user probably will have done git diff
> before dgit build / push.  git diff provides a more convenient diffing
> tool than debdiff, and eyeballing the same thing twice is makework.

git diff is a nice tool. But it has it limits. Try detecting the adding
or removel of an empty file with git diff for example.

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: Packages using old dpkg tools paths

[Niels Thykier]

On 2014-11-03 11:23, Guillem Jover wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> [...]
> I'm planning on starting to file bug reports for the source packages
> below (BCCed). I've not checked (yet) how severe the dpkg-statoverride
> ones are, but if most of them do not get fixed, I might consider
> reintroducing the compat symlink for that one alone if the release-team
> (CCed) sees fit to that. :/
> 
> [...]
> 
> Thanks,
> Guillem
> 
> 

Hi Guillem,

Could you please re-instate all the compat symlinks for Jessie?  Besides
the package listed, we are also concerned about the upgrade path from
Wheezy.

~Niels





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Re: Packages using old dpkg tools paths

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Nov 03, 2014 at 11:23:37AM +0100, Guillem Jover wrote:
> Colin Watson 
>man-db
>openssh (U)

Thanks, I hadn't realised these paths had changed; I'm fairly sure that
maintainer script code dates from a time when dpkg-statoverride was new
and it wasn't safe to assume that it was present.  I've removed the
now-unnecessary tests.

-- 
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Re: systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Kristof Provost]

On 2014-11-03 19:05:51 (+0100), Marco d'Itri  wrote:
> I like to keep advertising over and over the awesome grml-rescueboot 
> package which automatically provides in GRUB a copy of the awesome GRML 
> live CD for rescue purposes.
> 
Ooohh! Why did I not know about that? Thanks!

-- 
Kristof


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Re: A small thanks to the kFreeBSD porters

[Tino Mettler]

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:36:26 +, Ian Jackson wrote:

[...]

> While fixing the bug on a porterbox I got very helpful IRC support

Hi Ian,

did you get this on a particular channel? If yes, what channel?

I also was bugged by a sockopt related FTBFS on kFreeBSD last weekend.
I tried my luck on #debian-kbsd which I was pointed to on a wiki page. 
It was rather silent, though.

Regards,
Tino


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Re: Punctuation characters in Debian packaging

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Joachim Breitner (2014-11-03 19:12:41)
> Am Montag, den 03.11.2014, 15:40 + schrieb Ian Jackson:
>> There are probably a lot of things missing.  If you know about some 
>> corner of Debian tooling which has exciting syntax, please add the 
>> information you have.
>
> apt-get supports appending - to a package name in its argument to 
> install to remove it; should such uses be listed on 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Punctuation?
>
> Also, is a package name ending in a - legal?.. Looks like they are, 
> according to the policy. I guess I can upload p-.-+-.- then soon :-)

Oh, it is?  That'll ruin the aptitude feature of negated installs:

  aptitude install systemd-shim systemd-sysv-

Either way it sure needs to be clarified!


 - Jonas

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Re: systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Marco d'Itri]

On Nov 03, Simon McVittie  wrote:

> On 03/11/14 14:36, Hans wrote:
> > My system has /, /boot, /home, /usr and /var on seperated partitions.
> > The partitions /home, /usr and /var are luks-encrypted.
> 
> Encrypting '/usr' but not '/' doesn't make a great deal of sense; '/'
> contains critical system libraries (in /lib), system account details,
> the ssh host key etc. (in /etc), and so on.
> 
> > I guess, many people after Snowden are using similar profiles than mine and 
> > I 
> > think, you do not expect all the computers in the world to be repartitioned.
> 
> I don't think either systemd upstream, or the systemd package in Debian,
> is likely to support your specific setup, because it's complicated and
> specific to you. However, someone (perhaps you) could write code that
> hooks into existing infrastructure to do what you want, and someone
> (perhaps the same person, perhaps you) could maintain that in Debian.
> 
> If you want things to happen before systemd starts, the place to do that
> is in an initramfs hook (/usr/share/initramfs-tools on Debian).
> 
> I know you don't want to repartition, but here is what I'd suggest for
> anyone else in your situation, on any computer that only has one
> physical disk:
> 

> - optionally, a small unencrypted recovery system (like a small
>   Debian installation, or grml) for when things go horribly wrong
I like to keep advertising over and over the awesome grml-rescueboot 
package which automatically provides in GRUB a copy of the awesome GRML 
live CD for rescue purposes.

> Separating /, /home, /usr, /var is of limited use these days. I'd just
> encrypt them all and be done with it (and that's what I use on my own
> laptop).
Agreed, with modern Debian (even without systemd) you can easily keep 
everything but /boot encrypted.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: dgit and git-dpm

[Ian Jackson]

Bernhard R. Link writes ("Re: dgit and git-dpm"):
> To do an NMU, one has to generate a debdiff anyway to post it to the
> bug report (as the rules for NMUs mandate).

Generating it and reading it are two different things.

As I say, I intend for dgit to be able to send the debdiff to the BTS
all by itself.

> And the debdiff is the real difference so the real changes done, so
> worth looking at.

This presupposes that there is a significant risk of something
unexpected showing up in the debdiff.

> How is being quite sure what would be in there with dgit that much
> different as with other NMUs? Where is the difference to
> "I just applied those two patches from the BTS and changed
> debian/rules the way described in debian/changelog.
> Why should I look at the debdiff? I know I changed nothing else."?

The point is that the dgit user probably will have done git diff
before dgit build / push.  git diff provides a more convenient diffing
tool than debdiff, and eyeballing the same thing twice is makework.

Ian.


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Re: Punctuation characters in Debian packaging

[Joachim Breitner]

Hi,


Am Montag, den 03.11.2014, 15:40 + schrieb Ian Jackson:
> There are probably a lot of things missing.  If you know about some
> corner of Debian tooling which has exciting syntax, please add the
> information you have.

apt-get supports appending - to a package name in its argument to
install to remove it; should such uses be listed on
https://wiki.debian.org/Punctuation?

Also, is a package name ending in a - legal?.. Looks like they are,
according to the policy. I guess I can upload p-.-+-.- then soon :-)

Greetings,
Joachim

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Re: Bug#752450: ftp.debian.org: please consider to strongly tighten the validity period of Release files

[Ian Jackson]

Santiago Vila writes ("Re: Bug#752450: ftp.debian.org: please consider to 
strongly tighten the validity period of Release files"):
> I have a laptop with testing which I use mostly on weekends. I have a
> partial mirror there, which I try to update as soon as I login into
> the system.

Firstly, I think this is an important use case which we should cater
to.  But also I think we should try to reduce the risk of the kinds of
attacks that Christoph Mitterer is worried about.

I think that we should approach this problem in the best Debian
tradition and try to invent some kind of technical approach that
works, as well as we can arrange, for everyone.

Certainly just changing the validity period for the signatures is too
blunt a tool.  As demonstrated, there is no right value for this
configuration parameter.  IMO that shows that we have a design
problem.  We should fix that, rather than having an argument about
which use case is more important.

Indeed, the time interval between vulnerabilities being known and
being widely exploited is becoming very short.  We need to speed up
our distribution of security patches, if we can, and that means we
need to reduce the rollback vulnerability window.


I don't have a complete recipe for this but here are some possible
pieces:

 * The computer knows when it last polled for updates from whatever
   its mirror is.  Perhaps this information is of use.

 * We could run a lightweight polling service on Debian infrastructure
   which the computer could use to find out how out of date it is.

 * We could provide a separate command or tool or option to check for
   security updates - a tool which would _fail_ if the network and
   infrastructure was not sufficiently working.

 * We could provide a configurable addition to the validity period.

 * The security archive might want a different validity period.

 * We might want automation which was capable of automatically
   shutting a server down into some kind of minimal maintenance mode,
   when it is unable to verify its own security support status.

 * Some people here have already suggested that `desktop' and `server'
   configurations might want different defaults.  `Laptop' probably
   wants yet different defaults.

> This is a real pain and it reminds me of "subscription" services or
> DRM stuff, like those games that fail to work if the player is not "online".

As someone who is running various servers, I would love it if my
server shut itself down if it thought it was `offline' because it
couldn't do its security updates.  Of course, conversely, that would
be incredibly annoying for my netbook!

Ian.


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Re: systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Simon McVittie]

On 03/11/14 14:36, Hans wrote:
> My system has /, /boot, /home, /usr and /var on seperated partitions.
> The partitions /home, /usr and /var are luks-encrypted.

Encrypting '/usr' but not '/' doesn't make a great deal of sense; '/'
contains critical system libraries (in /lib), system account details,
the ssh host key etc. (in /etc), and so on.

> I guess, many people after Snowden are using similar profiles than mine and I 
> think, you do not expect all the computers in the world to be repartitioned.

I don't think either systemd upstream, or the systemd package in Debian,
is likely to support your specific setup, because it's complicated and
specific to you. However, someone (perhaps you) could write code that
hooks into existing infrastructure to do what you want, and someone
(perhaps the same person, perhaps you) could maintain that in Debian.

If you want things to happen before systemd starts, the place to do that
is in an initramfs hook (/usr/share/initramfs-tools on Debian).

I know you don't want to repartition, but here is what I'd suggest for
anyone else in your situation, on any computer that only has one
physical disk:

- small unencrypted /boot
- optionally, a small unencrypted recovery system (like a small
  Debian installation, or grml) for when things go horribly wrong
- large encrypted volume filling the rest of the disk, containing...
  - an LVM physical volume, containing...
- swap
- root filesystem (including /home /usr /var /srv etc.)

If there are multiple disks, the second and subsequent disks could
either be a RAID array, or contain additional encrypted LVM PVs.

Separating /, /home, /usr, /var is of limited use these days. I'd just
encrypt them all and be done with it (and that's what I use on my own
laptop).

S


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Bug#767709: marked as done (general: nvidia 340.46-3 + latest jessie updates = periodic GUI hickup)

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Your message dated Mon, 03 Nov 2014 17:03:09 +
with message-id <5457b54d.1010...@debian.org>
and subject line Re: Bug#767709: bug is actually with system-monitor extension
has caused the Debian Bug report #767709,
regarding general: nvidia 340.46-3 + latest jessie updates = periodic GUI hickup
to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this
message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system
misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact ow...@bugs.debian.org
immediately.)


-- 
767709: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=767709
Debian Bug Tracking System
Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems
--- Begin Message ---
Package: general
Severity: important

Dear Maintainer,

*** Reporter, please consider answering these questions, where appropriate ***

   * What led up to the situation?
   * What exactly did you do (or not do) that was effective (or
 ineffective)?
   * What was the outcome of this action?
   * What outcome did you expect instead?

*** End of the template - remove these template lines ***
Today I updated my system with the latest jessie updates, including the kernel
update.  The last time I updated was a couple of weeks ago.

Now there every 10 seconds or so there is a very brief, 1/2 second freeze in
Gnome 3.14.1 's interface.  Using the restricted nvidia drivers, 340.46-3, with
a nvidia quadro k4200.



-- System Information:
Debian Release: jessie/sid
  APT prefers testing-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'testing-updates'), (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.16-3-amd64 (SMP w/12 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Control: forwarded 767709 
https://github.com/paradoxxxzero/gnome-shell-system-monitor-applet/issues/202

On 03/11/14 15:36, Jon Parker wrote:
> This bug actually occurs only when I use the System-monitor extension
> found here:
> 
> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/

"Don't do that, then" :-)

GNOME Shell extensions are not isolated from the Shell compositor,
so it isn't surprising that a misbehaving extension can stall the
UI periodically.

Debian doesn't seem to ship that extension, and the extension's
own bug tracker has several entries for this sort of thing
already, so there doesn't seem any point in this bug remaining
open; closing it.

Regards,
S--- End Message ---

Re: systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Hans]

Hi Ben,

> This was implemented in initramfs-tools 0.117.  This is not yet in
> jessie as these changes led to some serious regressions that have not
> all been fixed.  But I think we will have this working soon and get it
> into jessie.

this are great news! I already heard about the improvement of initramfs-tools 
in unstable. However, I could not verifý, if these also involve enrypted 
partitions. As you know, you must either decrypt them manually or by a keyfile 
on an usb-stick (or similar).
> 
> > - systemd should be started AFTER an USB-stick, which contains a
> > decryption
> > key for the partitions is mounted and the decrypt-key for /usr (and maybe
> > other partitions) is read and decrypted the needed partitions.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I don't know whether this works.
> 

Hmm, this should work IMO after the next "stable" release. Systemadmins with 
great resposibilty might have the partitions encrypted. Please avoid to break 
such systems. I will likely test, if you want to, and be pleased to send back 
feedback. 

> Ben.
Best 

Hans


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Bug#767950: ITP: vorbis-java -- Ogg and Vorbis toolkit for Java

[Emmanuel Bourg]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Emmanuel Bourg 

* Package name: vorbis-java
  Version : 0.6
  Upstream Author : Nick Burch 
* URL : https://github.com/Gagravarr/VorbisJava
* License : Apache-2.0
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : Ogg and Vorbis toolkit for Java

vorbis-java is a pure Java library for working with Ogg, Vorbis, FLAC,
Opus and Speex files

Support for the Ogg container is fairly complete, offering the ability
to read, write, add and change streams within an Ogg file. It should be
possible to use the Ogg parts as a basis for dealing with any multimedia
data stored in an Ogg container. There is basic support for Skeleton
Annodex streams, which provide metadata on top of Ogg files about the
streams, but it isn't fully integrated.

Support for the Vorbis audio format so far concentrates on metadata. It
is possible to retrieve and change metadata (such as sampling rates,
user comments etc), and tools are provided to query and alter these.
Encoding/decoding audio data is not supported.

Opus and Speex support is slightly less than that of Vorbis, covering
retrieving of metadata (such as sampling rates, user comments etc).
However, basic Opus or Speex audio frame support is outstanding. Tooling
exists for querying and changing metadata for Opus only.

Very limited support is also included for FLAC comments (user metadata),
which use the same scheme as Vorbis. FLAC-native and FLAC-in-Ogg files
are both supported for extracting the user metadata.

This library is a dependency of Apache Tika.


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Re: systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Ben Hutchings]

On Mon, 2014-11-03 at 15:36 +0100, Hans wrote:
> Dear maintainers, 
> 
> I am running jessie with systemd. As I am using a construction other people 
> might also use, please allow me to suggest some things, you should implement 
> into systemd.
>
> My system has /, /boot, /home, /usr and /var on seperated partitions.
> The partitions /home, /usr and /var are luks-encrypted.
> 
> As this profile, the follwing things should be implemented or at least 
> considered (regarded?) in systemd before the release of jessie:
> 
> - systemd should started, AFTER /usr is decrypted
> 
> - systemd should be started AFTER /usr is mounted

This was implemented in initramfs-tools 0.117.  This is not yet in
jessie as these changes led to some serious regressions that have not
all been fixed.  But I think we will have this working soon and get it
into jessie.

> - systemd should be started AFTER an USB-stick, which contains a decryption 
> key for the partitions is mounted and the decrypt-key for /usr (and maybe 
> other partitions) is read and decrypted the needed partitions.
[...]

I don't know whether this works.

Ben.

-- 
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Power corrupts.  Absolute power is kind of neat.
   - John Lehman, Secretary of the US Navy 1981-1987


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Re: mass bug filing about everything-in-usr

[Marco d'Itri]

On Nov 03, Sven Joachim  wrote:

> Thanks for doing that.  Have you looked at cases where _different_
> packages do so?
Yes, of the two cases one has been fixed and the other hopefully will 
be. Until then, there is a Conflicts directive.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Punctuation characters in Debian packaging

[Stephane Chazelas]

2014-11-03 15:40:46 +, Ian Jackson:
> I have just made this wiki page:
>   https://wiki.debian.org/Punctuation
[...]

Just a wee note:

> Character Use in Debian packaging  Other important
>uses
[...]
> ^ package, name (in apt-get and other libapt-pkg   old shells
>   users)
[...]

"old shells" (Thomson, Mashey, Bourne) and new ones: zsh (with
extendedglob), rc, es, akanga, fish... (also history expansion).

-- 
Stephane


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moodle_2.7.2-2_all.deb (was: Re: [moodle-packaging] experimental moodle .deb available, problem with gbp import-orig)

[Joost van Baal-Ilić]

Hi,

(A similar message was sent to pkg-moodle-maintainers@lists.alioth on Tue, Oct
28.).

I am working on packaging Moodle 2.7.2: the one with long-term support (LTS)
until May 2017; an extra-long period of support from Moodle HQ for 3 years.

Preliminary .deb + source package is (for now) available from
http://mdcc.cx/tmp/moodle/ .

I tried to use the git repository on alioth, but failed to do so.

(I got this:

 $ gbp-clone --all --pristine-tar git://anonscm.debian.org/pkg-moodle/moodle.git

 $ gbp import-orig --pristine-tar ../moodle-2.7.2.tgz

 gbp:info: Importing '../moodle-2.7.2.tgz' to branch 'upstream'...
 gbp:info: Source package is moodle
 gbp:info: Upstream version is 2.7.2
 pristine-tar: committed moodle_2.7.2.orig.tar.gz.delta to branch pristine-tar
 gbp:info: Merging to 'master'
 gbp:error: Merge failed, please resolve.

a _huge_ diff is left.  Am I missing something here?)

I believe it still would be usefull to upload moodle_2.7.2-2_all.deb to
unstable.  What do you think?

NB: https://bugs.debian.org/747084 rightfully states: "must not be in jessie
without proper long term support".  It should not enter testing.

Bye,

Joost - still improving the .deb and about to test it

-- 
Ho Mitakuye Oyasin ※ http://ad1810.com ※ http://mdcc.cx/


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Re: Punctuation characters in Debian packaging

[Ian Jackson]

Stephane Chazelas writes ("Re: Punctuation characters in Debian packaging"):
> Just a wee note:
...
> > ^ package, name (in apt-get and other libapt-pkg   old shells
> >   users)
> [...]
> 
> "old shells" (Thomson, Mashey, Bourne) and new ones: zsh (with
> extendedglob), rc, es, akanga, fish... (also history expansion).

I didn't know that.  But: it's a wiki :-).  Fix it to read `shells' or
`some shells' ?

Ian.


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Re: mass bug filing about everything-in-usr

[Sven Joachim]

On 2014-11-02 03:01 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> I plan to open 10 other bugs like #767710 about packages that install
> a symbolic link to a file with the same name in both /bin/ and
> /usr/bin/, this way preventing a conversion to everything-in-usr.

Thanks for doing that.  Have you looked at cases where _different_
packages do so?  I know at least one case, coreutils installing /bin/rm
and safe-rm a wrapper as /usr/bin/rm, which will give "interesting"
results if /bin and /usr/bin are the same place.

Cheers,
   Sven


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Bug#767709: bug is actually with system-monitor extension

[Jon Parker]

This bug actually occurs only when I use the System-monitor extension 
found here:


https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/

Punctuation characters in Debian packaging

[Ian Jackson]

I have just made this wiki page:
  https://wiki.debian.org/Punctuation

There are probably a lot of things missing.  If you know about some
corner of Debian tooling which has exciting syntax, please add the
information you have.

I have deliberately not listed use in regexps, because regexp engines
have a quoting mechanism, and because I didn't want this to become a
table of regexp syntax.

I'm interested in things which appear in conventional filenames,
RFC822-syntax metadata (in source and binary packages, etc.), apt and
dpkg command lines, etc.

It would be nice if the statement at the bottom

  Other than as noted above, punctuation characters are not permitted
  in package names and version numbers.

could be extended to architectures, suites and filenames.  Since
architectures, suites and filename extensions are pretty much closed
sets, it would be best if those responsible for assigning them
documented what their actual rule is (which might differ from that
documented in some code somewhere).

Ian.


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Re: Time for a new kernel?

[Mathieu Malaterre]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
[...]
>  Also, look at the success of the Raspberry Pi.
[...]
> Preferably open-source hardware. [...]
[...]

https://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/TargetedHardware#Unsuitable


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systemd - suggestions for the next version

[Hans]

Dear maintainers, 

I am running jessie with systemd. As I am using a construction other people 
might also use, please allow me to suggest some things, you should implement 
into systemd.

My system has /, /boot, /home, /usr and /var on seperated partitions.
The partitions /home, /usr and /var are luks-encrypted.

As this profile, the follwing things should be implemented or at least 
considered (regarded?) in systemd before the release of jessie:

- systemd should started, AFTER /usr is decrypted

- systemd should be started AFTER /usr is mounted

- systemd should be started AFTER an USB-stick, which contains a decryption 
key for the partitions is mounted and the decrypt-key for /usr (and maybe 
other partitions) is read and decrypted the needed partitions.

I guess, many people after Snowden are using similar profiles than mine and I 
think, you do not expect all the computers in the world to be repartitioned.

Systemd is running well, so far as I can see, but these things should be 
corrected somehow. IMO this will improve systemd a lot!

Thank you very much for your support.

Best regrads

Hans


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Bug#767944: ITP: jhighlight -- Embeddable Java library for syntax highlighting

[Emmanuel Bourg]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Emmanuel Bourg 

* Package name: jhighlight
  Version : 1.0
  Upstream Author : Geert Bevin 
* URL : http://svn.rifers.org/jhighlight
* License : LGPL-2.1+ or CDDL-1.0
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : Embeddable Java library for syntax highlighting

JHighlight is an embeddable Java syntax highlighting library that
supports Java, HTML, XHTML, XML and LZX languages and outputs to XHTML.
It also supports RIFE templates tags and highlights them clearly so that
one can easily identify the difference between the RIFE markup and the
actual marked up source.

This library is a dependency of Apache Tika.


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Re: Time for a new kernel?

[Jeremy]

IDEA: To tackle the driver issue & avoiding binary blobs, the project
should focus on ONE hardware platform (until the project solidifies, then
consider porting).

Commodore 64 was immensely successful, and only had one set of hardware to
support.  Also, look at the success of the Raspberry Pi.

Focus all effort into supporting one piece of hardware, then grow from
there when possible.  Preferably open-source hardware. (lemote anyone?)

But focusing back on Linux kernel, their direction is questionable. Linus
himself hates security. He doesn't care. That mentality will trickle down.


On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:13 AM, Samuel Thibault 
wrote:

> Jeremy, le Mon 03 Nov 2014 09:03:25 -0500, a écrit :
> > if only the kernel were replaced, the rest would still work as we al
> > like it to.  (This is evident with Debian GNU Hurd & kFreeBSD projects).
>
> It's not so easy :)
>
> > We all hear everyone say "The code is open for anyone to look for
> > exploits" but DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY DO IT?  Or does everyone think
> > someone else is going to do it, so they don't worry about?
>
> You'll end up with contradictory issues: having driver support and
> having people look at the code. The non-driver parts of the kernel are
> quite well looked at.  Drivers, much less.  Research has shown that
> it's there that most bugs lie.  And taking another kernel won't really
> change that issue (if the other kernel is actually at all shipping other
> drivers than just picking up Linux').
>
> Samuel
>

Re: mass bug filing about everything-in-usr

[Marco d'Itri]

On Nov 03, Michael Biebl  wrote:

> Thanks for this initiative, Marco!
> It would be great to get all those bits into jessie.
Indeed it would be great, because even without the conversion program in 
jessie then Debian systems could be installed with the new layout and 
just work without breaking on updates.

I provided patches for all the 11 non-library packages and all the 
changes are trivial, but I am not sure about how the release managers 
feel about this.

The 4 library packages should be fixed anyway independently of usrmerge.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: mass bug filing about everything-in-usr

[Michael Biebl]

Am 02.11.2014 um 03:01 schrieb Marco d'Itri:
> 
> For more information about everything-in-usr please read
> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/md/usrmerge.git/tree/debian/README.Debian
> 

Thanks for this initiative, Marco!
It would be great to get all those bits into jessie.

Michael
-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Re: Time for a new kernel?

[Ben Hutchings]

Don't feed the troll.



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Re: Time for a new kernel?

[Marco d'Itri]

On Nov 03, Samuel Thibault  wrote:

> You'll end up with contradictory issues: having driver support and
 +---+ .:\:\:/:/:.
 |   PLEASE DO NOT   |:.:\:\:/:/:.:   
 |  FEED THE TROLLS  |   :=.' -   - '.=:  
 |   |   '=(\ 9   9 /)='  
 |   Thank you,  |  (  (_)  ) 
 |   Management  |  /`-vvv-'\ 
 +---+ / \
 |  |@@@  / /|,|\ \   
 |  |@@@ /_//  /^\  \\_\  
   @x@@x@|  | |/ WW(  (   )  )WW  
   \/|  |\|   __\,,\ /,,/__   
\||/ |  | |  (__Y__)  
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
==

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Time for a new kernel?

[Samuel Thibault]

Jeremy, le Mon 03 Nov 2014 09:03:25 -0500, a écrit :
> if only the kernel were replaced, the rest would still work as we al
> like it to.  (This is evident with Debian GNU Hurd & kFreeBSD projects).

It's not so easy :)

> We all hear everyone say "The code is open for anyone to look for
> exploits" but DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY DO IT?  Or does everyone think
> someone else is going to do it, so they don't worry about?

You'll end up with contradictory issues: having driver support and
having people look at the code. The non-driver parts of the kernel are
quite well looked at.  Drivers, much less.  Research has shown that
it's there that most bugs lie.  And taking another kernel won't really
change that issue (if the other kernel is actually at all shipping other
drivers than just picking up Linux').

Samuel


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Time for a new kernel?

[Jeremy]

In my opinion, Linux would not be where it is today without Debian.

RedHat may have convinced businesses to use Linux, but Debian really
convinced everyone else to not only use Linux, but to like it.

The decisions Linux kernel devs now make are from the angle of getting and
keeping customers.  It is no longer about quality or security, but revenue.
As a result they are making choices which make the community very unhappy,
such as 'systemd' to name only one.

Maybe it is finally time to consider moving the core system to another
kernel.

Debian is by far the most wide spread implementation of the GNU operating
system, so if only the kernel were replaced, the rest would still work as
we al like it to.  (This is evident with Debian GNU Hurd & kFreeBSD
projects).

The only real hurdle would be overcoming hardware compatibility, but the
Debian community has grown so large it may be possible. Plus; they have
been through it before, so they know what to expect.

There are many kernels available aside from Linux. Some are even superior
as far as code quality. The Linux kernel has gotten large and
unmanageable.  Does anyone really audit these millions of lines of code?
We all hear everyone say "The code is open for anyone to look for exploits"
but DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY DO IT?  Or does everyone think someone else is
going to do it, so they don't worry about?

I strongly feel a new kernel would help preserve the Debian operating
system, for it was such a huge success that many have copied it.

-j

Re: Bug#741930: reportbug: add current init system information

[Sandro Tosi]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Michael Biebl  wrote:
> Am 03.11.2014 um 13:21 schrieb Sandro Tosi:
>> Hello,
>> sorry for resurrecting this post from such a long ago.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Sandro Tosi  wrote:
>>> Ok, I think we need a wider audience - what d-d thinks about it? bonus
>>> points if - in case we come out to add init info to every bug report -
>>> a proper way to retrieve the init running is provided :)
>
> Such tests have already been provided in
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=741930#25
> which reflect the recommendation of the systemd and upstart maintainers.

what is the recommended way to identify sysvinit? from the info
provided above one requires to check a dir existence and the checking
a command and then execute it to parse its output. it seems a bit
fragile, and maybe only upstart check really the running processes

Cheers,
-- 
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Re: Bug#741930: reportbug: add current init system information

[Michael Biebl]

Am 03.11.2014 um 13:21 schrieb Sandro Tosi:
> Hello,
> sorry for resurrecting this post from such a long ago.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Sandro Tosi  wrote:
>> Ok, I think we need a wider audience - what d-d thinks about it? bonus
>> points if - in case we come out to add init info to every bug report -
>> a proper way to retrieve the init running is provided :)

Such tests have already been provided in
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=741930#25
which reflect the recommendation of the systemd and upstart maintainers.



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Re: Bug#741930: reportbug: add current init system information

[Sandro Tosi]

Hello,
sorry for resurrecting this post from such a long ago.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Sandro Tosi  wrote:
> Ok, I think we need a wider audience - what d-d thinks about it? bonus
> points if - in case we come out to add init info to every bug report -
> a proper way to retrieve the init running is provided :)

Could you try running the attached script on your machines (check the
code first!!) and report in a private email to me the output?
Corrections/comments are welcome to be public either on d-d and/or on
the bug report.

What I want to do is inspecting the running system, instead of relying
on the presence of directories (I will use this latter method if the
first fails).

Thanks,
-- 
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi
from __future__ import with_statement
import os

pid1 = ''
init = '/sbin/init'

try:
with open('/proc/1/cmdline') as f:
pid1 = 'PID 1 is '
# cmdline contains arguments separated by NULL char
init = f.read().split('\x00')[0]
except IOError:
# ignore if the file is not accessible
pass

initsystem = os.readlink(init)

print 'Init: %s%s linked to %s' % (pid1, init, initsystem)

Bug#767890: ITP: python-getdns -- modern asynchronous DNS API (python bindings)

[Ondřej Surý]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Ondřej Surý" 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

* Package name: python-getdns
  Version : 0.2.0
  Upstream Author : Verisign & NlNetLabs
* URL : http://getdnsapi.org/
* License : BSD-3-clause
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : modern asynchronous DNS API (python bindings)

 getdns is a modern asynchronous DNS API.  It implements DNS entry
 points from a design developed and vetted by application developers,
 in an API specification edited by Paul Hoffman.  With the development
 of this API, we intend to offer application developers a modernized
 and flexible way to access DNS security (DNSSEC) and other powerful
 new DNS features; a particular hope is to inspire application
 developers towards innovative security solutions in their
 applications.
 .
 This package contains pythong bindings for the library.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1
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=SyPq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Packages using old dpkg tools paths

[Guillem Jover]

Hi!

I was notified by Emmanuel Bourg that there are still packages making
use of the old compat paths for u-a, dpkg-divert and dpkg-statoverride
in /usr/sbin. Those compat symlinks got removed in dpkg 1.17.0:

  ,---
  * Remove update-alternatives, dpkg-divert and dpkg-statoverride
compatibility symlinks under /usr/sbin/.
  `---

I'm planning on starting to file bug reports for the source packages
below (BCCed). I've not checked (yet) how severe the dpkg-statoverride
ones are, but if most of them do not get fixed, I might consider
reintroducing the compat symlink for that one alone if the release-team
(CCed) sees fit to that. :/

I'm not entirely sure why most of those packages are using a construct
like this though:

  ,---
  if [ ! -x /usr/sbin/dpkg-statoverride ] || \
 ! dpkg-statoverride --list $CONF > /dev/null
  then
  […]
  fi
  `---

instead of just using the command directly? Maybe cargo-culted from
somewhere? I also thought there was a lintian warning on absolute path
usage, but either I cannot find it after a quick glance over the
website, the code, git log and BTS, or I misremembered.


Sources list (via codesearch.d.o)


,--- u-a ---
startupmanager_1.9.13-7/bootconfig/usplash.py
wmanager_0.2.1-11/debian/wmanagerrc-update
`---

,--- dpkg-divert ---
amule_2.3.1+git1a369e47-2/debian/amule-utils.preinst
amule_2.3.1+git1a369e47-2/debian/amule.preinst
`---

,--- dpkg-statoverride ---
acidbase_1.4.5-4/debian/postinst
beep_1.3-3/debian/postinst
geki2_2.0.3-8/debian/postinst
geki3_1.0.3-7/debian/postinst
gravitywars_1.102-32/debian/postinst
im_1:151-3/debian/postrm
man-db_2.7.0.2-2/debian/postinst
monsterz_0.7.1-7/debian/postinst
netdiag_1.1-1/debian/diagperm
netselect_0.3.ds1-26/debian/netselect.postinst
openssh_1:6.7p1-2/debian/openssh-client.postinst
openssh_1:6.7p1-2/debian/openssh-server.postinst
pconsole_1.0-11/debian/postinst
phpgacl_3.3.7-7.3/debian/phpgacl.postinst
pure-ftpd_1.0.36-3/debian/pure-ftpd-common.postinst
systemtap_2.6-0.1/debian/systemtap-runtime.postinst
tecnoballz_0.93.1-1/debian/tecnoballz.postinst
terminatorx_3.90-2/debian/postinst
tvtime_1.0.2-12.1/debian/postinst
xvt_2.1-20.1/debian/postinst
`---


dd-list
===

,---
Adrian Yanes 
   amule (U)

Alessio Treglia 
   terminatorx (U)

Axel Beckert 
   pconsole

Barry deFreese 
   gravitywars (U)
   monsterz (U)
   tecnoballz (U)

Colin Watson 
   man-db
   openssh (U)

David Gil 
   phpgacl

Debian aMule Team 
   amule

Debian Games Team 
   geki2
   geki3
   gravitywars
   monsterz
   tecnoballz

Debian Multimedia Maintainers 

   terminatorx

Debian OpenSSH Maintainers 
   openssh

Debian QA Group 
   startupmanager
   tvtime

Gerfried Fuchs 
   beep

Giuseppe Iuculano 
   amule (U)

Gonéri Le Bouder 
   geki2 (U)
   monsterz (U)

Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Pen~a 
   acidbase (U)
   phpgacl (U)

Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña 
   netselect

Jeremy T. Bouse 
   acidbase

Markus Koschany 
   tecnoballz (U)

Matthew Vernon 
   openssh (U)

Michael Meskes 
   netdiag

Peter Pentchev 
   wmanager

Ritesh Raj Sarraf 
   systemtap

Sam Hocevar (Debian packages) 
   geki2 (U)
   geki3 (U)
   gravitywars (U)
   monsterz (U)
   xvt

Sandro Tosi 
   amule (U)

Stefan Hornburg (Racke) 
   pure-ftpd

Tatsuya Kinoshita 
   im

Timo Juhani Lindfors 
   systemtap (U)
`---

Thanks,
Guillem


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Re: tracking state of a binary package

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Neil Williams (2014-11-03 10:49:05)
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:44:05 +0100
> Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
>
>> How do I reliably inspect the status of a binary package in Debian?
>
> rmadison?

Oh, silly me.  Had my mind locked onto web pages :-/

Thanks for snapping me out!


>> Concrete example: Which suites contain iceweasel-l10n-ak?
>>
>> It seems that package exists in Wheezy and Jessie but not Sid.
>>
>> It is listed at  
>> but if I follow links to 
>>  and e.g. 
>>  they show 
>> different versions.
>
> Check with ftp-master but this looks like a cruft operation is needed.

Ok, I will tr get hold of them.

 - Jonas

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Re: tracking state of a binary package

[Neil Williams]

On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:44:05 +0100
Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

> How do I reliably inspect the status of a binary package in Debian?

rmadison?

(devscripts) - it queries UDD, so should be a reliable answer, allowing
for synchronisation latency.

$ rmadison iceweasel-l10n-ak
debian:
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:10.0.12esr-1~bpo60+1 | squeeze-backports | all
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:17.0.8esr-2  | sid   | all
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:17.0.10esr-1~deb7u1  | wheezy-security   | all
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:17.0.10esr-1~deb7u1  | wheezy| all
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:24.4.0esr-1~deb7u2   | wheezy| all
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:24.5.0esr-1~deb7u1   | wheezy-security   | all
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:24.5.0esr-1  | sid   | all
 iceweasel-l10n-ak | 1:24.8.1esr-1~deb7u1   | wheezy-security   | all
new:


> 
> Concrete example: Which suites contain iceweasel-l10n-ak?
> 
> It seems that package exists in Wheezy and Jessie but not Sid.
> 
> It is listed at  
> but if I follow links to 
>  and e.g. 
>  they show 
> different versions.

Check with ftp-master but this looks like a cruft operation is needed.

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=
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/



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tracking state of a binary package

[Jonas Smedegaard]

How do I reliably inspect the status of a binary package in Debian?

Concrete example: Which suites contain iceweasel-l10n-ak?

It seems that package exists in Wheezy and Jessie but not Sid.

It is listed at  
but if I follow links to 
 and e.g. 
 they show 
different versions.

I seem to have heard that binary packages can have different versions 
than their source package, but assume that needs special tricks and 
highly suspect that's not the case here, but instead something else is 
going on.


Reason that particular package caught my attention is that I try have 
boxer handle locale coverage for a region (e.g. "include most possible 
locale packages for European Union formally supported languages"), and 
security releases of Mozilla packages seem to contain not only security 
fixes but also new (hence perhaps also dropped?) locale packages.  
Changelog of those packages do not seem to cover dropped or newly 
introduced binary packages - and anyway I'd prefer some more reliable 
method than inspection of changelogs.


 - Jonas

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Re: dgit and git-dpm

[Thorsten Glaser]

On Mon, 3 Nov 2014, Bernhard R. Link wrote:

> different as with other NMUs? Where is the difference to

Thanks, you described this better than I could.

bye,
//mirabilos
-- 
15:41⎜ Somebody write a testsuite for helloworld :-)


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Re: Bug#766880: xscreensaver screensaver don't appear in mate-screensaver

[Mike Gabriel]

Hi Tormod,

(I Cc: debian-devel and debian-release MLs to get more external  
feedback on this.)


On  Sa 01 Nov 2014 12:03:05 CET, Tormod Volden wrote:


--- screensavers-desktop.stub.old 2014-10-26 15:23:44.826806788 +0100
+++ screensavers-desktop.stub 2014-10-26 15:24:39.322497990 +0100
@@ -2,4 +2,4 @@
 Terminal=false
 Type=Application
 Categories=Screensaver;
-OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
+OnlyShowIn=GNOME;MATE;


This change results in all xscreensaver screensavers becoming usable
via mate-screensaver.


The same would be needed for other .desktop files from all kind of
packages. Since MATE is a fork of GNOME, with probably much
compatibility, wouldn't it make sense to patch MATE instead so that it
shows GNOME desktop files? Is there a policy on this?


Nonono... this is not an option!!!

Tweaking MATE desktop so that it would also show .desktop files that  
are only targetted for GNOME(v3) would pull in loads of GNOMEv3-only  
stuff into a MATE desktop environment that would either break  
functionality of the MATE desktop or reduce usability (as applications  
with similar functionality would appear twice at different places on  
the desktop if MATE and GNOMEv3 are installed in parallel on the same  
system).


Please note that MATE started as a GNOMEv2 fork, but it has turned  
into quite an independent project / desktop environment and  
compatibility to current GNOMEv3 exists here and there, but it should  
not be automatically assumed anymore.


MATE is a new desktop shell in Debian with its own namespace and its  
own set of applications. So, @all-package-maintainers: consider this  
when providing .desktop files that use OnlyShowIn= or NotShowIn= fields.



It is anyway to late to get this xscreensaver change into Jessie by
simple upload (it must have been uploaded to unstable before October
26th) so we will have to see what the release managers think.


Mike


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Bug#767881: ITP: python-junit-xml -- Create JUnit XML test result documents.

[Florian Preinstorfer]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Florian Preinstorfer 

* Package name: python-junit-xml
  Version : 1.3
  Upstream Author : Brian Beyer 
* URL : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/junit-xml
* License : MIT
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Create JUnit XML test result documents.

Python module for creating JUnit XML test result documents that can be
read by tools such as Jenkins. If you are ever working with test tool or
test suite written in Python and want to take advantage of Jenkins'
pretty graphs and test reporting capabilities, this module will let you
generate the XML test reports.

This python library may be used standalone, without any test runner in
the background, to create JUnit XML reports. The package is used
in-house and we'd like to contribute it back to Debian. A sponsor is
needed, and I'd like to maintain this package under the umbrella of the
Debian Python Modules Team. I will upload a first draft of the package
to mentors soon.

regards,
Florian


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