Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Stephan Verbücheln]

Nowadays you can also have BTRFS subvolumes, which does not require you
to define sizes in advance. In that case it is nice for snapshotting to
have separate subvolumes for things like home directories.

Regards

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Marc Haber]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 16:21:24 -0700, Russ Allbery 
wrote:
>I agree with the other feedback that you are overpartitioning your disk.

It is especially evident in the df output where there are two-digit
amounts of gigabytes free on most of those HUGE partitions.

>I used to do this back when I was first learning UNIX in the 1990s because
>it seems like a good idea and it does isolate one part of the system from
>another if it uses an excessive amount of space.  But what I found in
>practice, and what almost everyone who does this eventually finds in
>practice, is that this much partitioning drastically reduces the long-term
>flexibility of the system.  It requires you predict in advance what parts
>of the system will grow, and when you guess wrong, you end up with
>symlinks trying to move directories from a partition with no free space to
>another partition with free space, with all the complexity and breakage
>that can cause.

Nowadays, with LVM, file systems can easily grow, even online. I have
stopped putting /usr on a dedicated file system as the usrmerge began
to show up on the horizon, but I still use dedicated file systems for
/home and /var.

I am NOT looking forward having to manually convert legacy systems to
merged /usr and I do sincerely hope that Debian will choose a way to
get away without throwing away systems that have just a small /, still
supporting a dedicated /usr as long as it's mounted by initramfs. I am
not sure whether we ever issued a clear statement about that.

>There are some technical reasons to separate /boot if you are using a file
>system for other partitions that isn't suitable for early boot (or if
>you're using cryptsetup or other file system layers).  /boot/efi is always
>a separate partition because of how it works.  Apart from those two
>special cases, the only reason to put something on a separate file system
>is if you have a clear and compelling reason why you expect a given file
>system to run out of space and you want to ensure that it cannot take
>space from other parts of the system.

I also believe that smaller file systems are unlikely to break and
that a system that can boot up to a ssh-able state even with a broken
file system is way easier to fix. We have taken a huge step back in
that regard with systemd since the systemd rescue mode requiring the
"real" root password even for minor startup failures is way more
unfriendly than what we had before. Many installations closely guard
the root password for real emergencies (I have been working on big
installations for years and have NEVER seena case where the "real"
root password was actually used - it is usually easier to rebuild
affected systems from scratch).

>This can be a good justification for putting /home on a separate partition
>*if* you are running a multi-user system.  But otherwise, separating out
>things like /var or /usr/local or /opt or /srv is more likely to cause you
>long-term headaches than it is to do anything useful.

I disagree for /var (maybe just for /var/log or parts of /var/lib).

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Marc Haber]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 03:36:59 +0200, Guillem Jover 
wrote:
>If by "very minor bugs" you mean that f.ex.:
>
> * dpkg, dpkg-divert, or update-alternatives are unable to detect file
>   conflicts and thus might allow silent overwrites of random stuff on
>   disk,
> * when moving files across packages and across aliased directories,
>   these pathnames might end up disappearing depending on the unpack
>   order,
> * dpkg-deb -x on the root directory (yes, people use this to recover
>   systems) with any .deb that contains files on real directories under
>   «/», will replace the symlinked directories with real ones,
>
>then, yes, I guess "very minor" indeed. But then I completely object
>to this being classified as bugs in dpkg, as this has been shoved in
>disregarding that dpkg does *not* support this, and it would require
>new *features* to be implemented, so this "transition" is founded on
>assuming features that do not exist, or completely going behind
>dpkg's back, which sounds great I guess…

In an ideal world, would the package manager not be a service utility
to SUPPORT policy and adapt to changing environment contitions instead
being a showstopper for innovation?

Who is the dpkg maintainer to challenge the decisions of the entire
project? I fully understand that there is only ONE dpkg maintainer,
but a utility THIS central to the entire ecosystem not being team
maintained is a HUGE part of the problem.

And no, I cannot help and no, you wouldn't want me to write a single
line of code in a package THIS central.

>The problem in general is that this layout introduces unreliability
>and silently induced breakage stemming from this flawed filesystem
>layout, which is going to affect the people that are going to benefit
>the less from its properties, and are the less experience to deal with
>it.

Would it not be dpkg's job to work around these flaws? It's not that
every other component of a Debian system are perfect.

>And here we are getting the project installing by default systems that
>are fighting the packaging system and going on its back, to enable a
>filesystem design layout mostly experienced admins will benefit from
>in very special deployment conditions, where final users can very
>easily suffer from its introduced unreliability (from 3rd-party repos
>or locally built packages, etc, f.ex.).

I must be missing some thing, but isn't it the experienced admins
facing reinstalls of vital systems when we finally move to a
completely merged /usr, because these usually currently have /usr on a
dedicated mountpoint?

>Because the above has been brought up before and the proponents are well
>aware of these, I'm afraid at this point the only thing that comes to
>mind is negligence, TBH. :/

on both sides of the conflict, yes.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :(

[Paul Wise]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 8:30 AM Hanno 'Rince' Wagner wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2021, Paul Wise wrote:
>
> > Valve have said that this will be an open device that any OS can be
> > installed on, just like on PCs, they even mentioned Windows so
> > presumably it will be able to run Debian amd64 too if Valve are
> > mainlining Linux hardware support.
>
> do we have a direct contact to steam regarding this? since I was able
> to order one of these devices, I'd be interested in hearing wether
> they will maintain the hardware support and would only have to add
> their sources in apts repository.

IIRC I heard it in one of these two IGN videos about the Steam Deck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLtiRGTZvGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9eihvhM_KE

> if we do not have this communication (yet), I'd offer trying to start
> such a conversation with Valve.

Please do. IIRC they have been good about upstreaming their work on
Wine/Proton so I would be surprised if they didn't do that for Linux
support. So eventually you could skip using Arch Linux SteamOS and
switch to Debian.

BTW, the Valve Arch Linux overlay thing appears to be here:

https://repo.steampowered.com/arch/valveaur/

The old Debian repos are on the same domain too:

https://repo.steampowered.com/

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Russ Allbery]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:

> I had the belief that some software used /tmp for temporary file that
> may grow many GB (example DVD creation).

> I have 32 GB

It should not, or at least it should let you specify a different path,
because using tmpfs for /tmp is very common these days.  (/var/tmp is
available if one needs a file system more likely to be on a larger disk.)

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)  

Accepted gimp 2.10.24-2 (source) into unstable

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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Guillem Jover]

On Thu, 2021-07-15 at 10:13:47 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> As it has been said and written many times already, in reality this is
> not broken by design at all and in fact it is the only successful
> strategy that has been deployed by other distros - it's what is being
> called merged-usr-via-moves-and-symlink-farms that is broken. We can
> say this with certainty because both approaches have been tried, so
> there's actual real-world data to look at. Just go look at the absolute
> mess that Suse got themselves into by following that solution - a 10-
> years-long massive half-done-never-finished headache that took an
> inordinate amount of work to back out of, and move to the actual
> working solution that everybody else are using - merged-usr-via-
> aliased-dirs. On the other hand Fedora/RHEL had a smooth and simple
> transition using merged-usr-via-aliased-dirs, and that was the end of
> it.

Yes, a single (a couple!?) data point(s) of a strategy used in another
unrelated distribution, with completely different packaging stacks and
ecosystems, which was done very poorly, has been presented repeatedly.
I'm not sure why that has much value TBH.

The above seems to also be confusing how and if a design has been
deployed, with its inherent (short and long term) properties. A badly
performed *deployment* for a better design does not make its properties
bad, in the same way that *deploying* a flawed design faster does not
make its properties better…

What I've also said multiple times, is that
merged-usr-via-moves-and-symlink-farms could have been implemented in
a fully automated way, by debhelper, w/o requiring any maintainer scripts,
all with full cooperation and managed by dpkg, with .debs shipping
actual tracked pathnames, if it had not been for the mess required
by merged-usr-via-aliased-dirs. :/

> Dpkg has some very minor bugs that rpm/dnf/yum/zypper/whatever do not
> suffer from. So what? It is perfectly normal as it's software and all
> softwares have bugs. They could be fixed, worked around, or ignored,
> like all other bugs.

If by "very minor bugs" you mean that f.ex.:

 * dpkg, dpkg-divert, or update-alternatives are unable to detect file
   conflicts and thus might allow silent overwrites of random stuff on
   disk,
 * when moving files across packages and across aliased directories,
   these pathnames might end up disappearing depending on the unpack
   order,
 * dpkg-deb -x on the root directory (yes, people use this to recover
   systems) with any .deb that contains files on real directories under
   «/», will replace the symlinked directories with real ones,

then, yes, I guess "very minor" indeed. But then I completely object
to this being classified as bugs in dpkg, as this has been shoved in
disregarding that dpkg does *not* support this, and it would require
new *features* to be implemented, so this "transition" is founded on
assuming features that do not exist, or completely going behind
dpkg's back, which sounds great I guess…

The problem in general is that this layout introduces unreliability
and silently induced breakage stemming from this flawed filesystem
layout, which is going to affect the people that are going to benefit
the less from its properties, and are the less experience to deal with
it.

I've tried to update the 
with more explicit information, in case some people might have missed
that from previous instances of this discussion, and added an initial
table of properties for both proposals, to avoid cluttering and repeating
it on the list, and to ease updating it.




We do actually have experience with "an aliased" layout from symlinked
/usr/share/doc/ directories, where those are for optional/removable parts
of the filesystem, and the symlinks are even known and managed by dpkg.
And those have been a major and constant source of packaging bugs.

And here we are getting the project installing by default systems that
are fighting the packaging system and going on its back, to enable a
filesystem design layout mostly experienced admins will benefit from
in very special deployment conditions, where final users can very
easily suffer from its introduced unreliability (from 3rd-party repos
or locally built packages, etc, f.ex.).

Because the above has been brought up before and the proponents are well
aware of these, I'm afraid at this point the only thing that comes to
mind is negligence, TBH. :/

But *shrug*, have at it, I'm tired of the continued and complete
disregard of the unreliability issues and subversion of the packaging
system, which are supposed to be pillars of our project, every single
time. I just replied so that people that might not want to be forced
into this stuff know that there's going to be a way out.

Regards,
Guillem

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 7:21 p.m., Russ Allbery wrote:
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:
> 
>> Here's my actual config (with 2TB) and yes I have a separate /home
> 
>> What is tmpfs and why is it set to 3.2 GB ?
> 
> tmpfs is a RAM-backed temporary file system that is automatically used for
> paths like /run and /dev/shm that are supposed to be cleared on each
> reboot and hold only small files (or memory references, in the case of
> /dev/shm).
> 
> I see that you have your system configured to store /tmp on your disk.
> This is generally not recommended these days.  Storing /tmp in tmpfs is
> much faster for some applications and automatically achieves the desired
> and standard /tmp behavior of clearing it on reboot.  About the only
> reason not to use tmpfs is if you have a very memory-constrained system
> and don't want to use any member at all for memory-backed file systems.
> 
I had the belief that some software used /tmp for temporary file that
may grow many GB (example DVD creation).

I have 32 GB

>> And /dev have 16G free ? Where does this come from...
> 
> The size of the udev file system is essentially meaningless.
> 
>> I'm wasting some space with /tmp !
> 
> I agree with the other feedback that you are overpartitioning your disk.
> I used to do this back when I was first learning UNIX in the 1990s because
> it seems like a good idea and it does isolate one part of the system from
> another if it uses an excessive amount of space.  But what I found in
> practice, and what almost everyone who does this eventually finds in
> practice, is that this much partitioning drastically reduces the long-term
> flexibility of the system.  It requires you predict in advance what parts
> of the system will grow, and when you guess wrong, you end up with
> symlinks trying to move directories from a partition with no free space to
> another partition with free space, with all the complexity and breakage
> that can cause.
> 
> There are some technical reasons to separate /boot if you are using a file
> system for other partitions that isn't suitable for early boot (or if
> you're using cryptsetup or other file system layers).  /boot/efi is always
> a separate partition because of how it works.  Apart from those two
> special cases, the only reason to put something on a separate file system
> is if you have a clear and compelling reason why you expect a given file
> system to run out of space and you want to ensure that it cannot take
> space from other parts of the system.
> 
> This can be a good justification for putting /home on a separate partition
> *if* you are running a multi-user system.  But otherwise, separating out
> things like /var or /usr/local or /opt or /srv is more likely to cause you
> long-term headaches than it is to do anything useful.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 05:54:33PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> On 2021-07-18 5:07 p.m., Andy Smith wrote:
> > I recommend understanding the issue before putting forth an opinion.
> > 
> Maybe I shall correct what I said as it may be misunderstood.

It's unclear to me why you've taken my reply to your mail on
debian-user, and instead sent it to me privately and also to
debian-devel.

As neither of us are Debian Developers and you don't seem to have
done much research regarding merged-/usr, I don't feel it is
on-topic for me to continue that conversation with you on
debian-devel.

I recommend doing some more reading of these threads and the
relevant wiki pages and if things are still unclear then asking
user-level questions only on debian-user.

Thanks,
Andy

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Russ Allbery]

Russ Allbery  writes:

> I see that you have your system configured to store /tmp on your disk.
> This is generally not recommended these days.  Storing /tmp in tmpfs is
> much faster for some applications and automatically achieves the desired
> and standard /tmp behavior of clearing it on reboot.  About the only
> reason not to use tmpfs is if you have a very memory-constrained system
> and don't want to use any member at all for memory-backed file systems.

Argh, that should have been "and don't want to use any *memory* at all for
memory-backed file systems."

Apologies for the additional message, but that word substitution was
sufficiently confusing that I'm not sure the intended meaning was clear.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)  

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Russ Allbery]

Svante Signell  writes:

> Again, everybody is just hiding, I wonder from who, the big wolf??  Who
> is hen? Anybody having the courage to reply to this list about this
> issue, not only workarounds/diversions?

I'm not discussing the issue on the list because I think the current
direction in which Debian is heading seems reasonable and forward progress
is being made, so there doesn't seem to be anything to argue about or any
point in doing so.

The folks who have been upset about this direction for years are still
upset and I'm sorry that they're still upset and that we haven't found
some approach that makes everyone happy.  But so far as I can tell, there
have been no new substantive arguments and no changes in direction, so
there doesn't seem to be anything new to reply about, particularly given
that I'm not involved in the implementation and therefore am not involved
in analyzing any of the technical concerns they raise.

"Courage" seems to me like an odd label to put on any of this.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)  

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Russ Allbery]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:

> Here's my actual config (with 2TB) and yes I have a separate /home

> What is tmpfs and why is it set to 3.2 GB ?

tmpfs is a RAM-backed temporary file system that is automatically used for
paths like /run and /dev/shm that are supposed to be cleared on each
reboot and hold only small files (or memory references, in the case of
/dev/shm).

I see that you have your system configured to store /tmp on your disk.
This is generally not recommended these days.  Storing /tmp in tmpfs is
much faster for some applications and automatically achieves the desired
and standard /tmp behavior of clearing it on reboot.  About the only
reason not to use tmpfs is if you have a very memory-constrained system
and don't want to use any member at all for memory-backed file systems.

> And /dev have 16G free ? Where does this come from...

The size of the udev file system is essentially meaningless.

> I'm wasting some space with /tmp !

I agree with the other feedback that you are overpartitioning your disk.
I used to do this back when I was first learning UNIX in the 1990s because
it seems like a good idea and it does isolate one part of the system from
another if it uses an excessive amount of space.  But what I found in
practice, and what almost everyone who does this eventually finds in
practice, is that this much partitioning drastically reduces the long-term
flexibility of the system.  It requires you predict in advance what parts
of the system will grow, and when you guess wrong, you end up with
symlinks trying to move directories from a partition with no free space to
another partition with free space, with all the complexity and breakage
that can cause.

There are some technical reasons to separate /boot if you are using a file
system for other partitions that isn't suitable for early boot (or if
you're using cryptsetup or other file system layers).  /boot/efi is always
a separate partition because of how it works.  Apart from those two
special cases, the only reason to put something on a separate file system
is if you have a clear and compelling reason why you expect a given file
system to run out of space and you want to ensure that it cannot take
space from other parts of the system.

This can be a good justification for putting /home on a separate partition
*if* you are running a multi-user system.  But otherwise, separating out
things like /var or /usr/local or /opt or /srv is more likely to cause you
long-term headaches than it is to do anything useful.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)  

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 6:17 p.m., Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Jul 19, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  wrote:
> 
>> So if I get it right...
> Except for /boot/, which may be required for technical reasons, there 
> is no need to further partition your file system unless you actually 
> have reasons to do it.
> 
>> One partiton for /boot
>> One partition for /usr
>> One partition for /usr/local (if you feel like it)
>> One / partiton that will contain not much stuff other than config files ?
>> One partition for /var (if you feel)
>> One partition for /opt, /srv ...
>> One partition for /tmp
> If you are aiming for overcomplexity then I think that you forgot /home.
> 
>> The root partition can be small as 16 Gb as it won't contain much ?
> If you create a partition for everything else as described here then 
> / will only contain /etc and /root, so even 1 GB will be enough.
> But again, I do not really recommend this.
> 
> I do not recommend to partition general purpose systems with less than 
> a few hundreds of GBs of allocated disk space.
> 

Here's my actual config (with 2TB) and yes I have a separate /home

What is tmpfs and why is it set to 3.2 GB ?
And /dev have 16G free ? Where does this come from...
I'm wasting some space with /tmp !

Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
udev 16G 0   16G   0% /dev
tmpfs   3.2G  2.1M  3.2G   1% /run
/dev/sda3   184G   70G  105G  40% /
tmpfs16G  163M   16G   2% /dev/shm
tmpfs   5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
/dev/sda5   262G   50G  199G  21% /var
/dev/sda4   175G   86M  166G   1% /tmp
/dev/sda888G   60M   83G   1% /usr/local
/dev/sda792G  3.6G   84G   5% /opt
/dev/sda10   92G   60M   87G   1% /srv
/dev/sda1   487M  3.3M  483M   1% /boot/efi
/dev/sda11  733G  649G   47G  94% /home
tmpfs   3.2G   84K  3.2G   1% /run/user/118
tmpfs   3.2G  124K  3.2G   1% /run/user/1000


-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Svante Signell]

On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 20:58 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 23:40 +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:
> > On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 19:54:56 +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > > Sean Whitton dixit:
> > > > * #978636 move to merged-usr-only?
> > > > 
> > > >  We were asked to decide whether or not Debian 'bookworm'
> > > > should
> > > >  continue to support systems which are not using the merged-usr
> > > >  filesystem layout.  We decided that support should not
> > > > continue
> > > > beyond Debian 'bullseye'.
> > > 
> > > What? WHAT? ＷＨＡＴ？
> > > 
> > > >  The decision is captured here:
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > No reason provided either. This stinks. I’m v̲e̲r̲y̲
> > > disappointed.
> > > Debian is becoming untenable. Years ago, I had hoped it won’t.
> > 
> > I've been meaning to send a note about this for some time now, but
> > as I feel it keeps getting ignored, it always seems a bit
> > pointless.
> > 
> > But in any case, given that merged-usr-via-aliased-dirs is not
> > really
> > supported by dpkg anyway, it is broken by design [B], I have no
> > intention whatsoever to break any of my systems with such layout
> > going forward, I'm thus planning to spend any necessary volunteer
> > time implementing any fix, workaround or solution required to avoid
> > having to use it, in detriment of other Debian volunteer time. I
> > alreadystarted some time ago with dpkg-fsys-usrunmess(8), present
> > already inthe upcoming bullseye release.
> > 
> [B] 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/FAQ#Q:_Does_dpkg_support_merged-.2Fusr-via-aliased-dirs.3F
> 
> Since the dpkg developer and maintainer Guillem considers merged /usr
> broken by design, maybe Debian should consider to use some other
> package management software for the peace of mind for people involved
> in the project? Maybe guix could be usable?

Again, everybody is just hiding, I wonder from who, the big wolf??
Who is hen? Anybody having the courage to reply to this list about this
issue, not only workarounds/diversions?

Accepted nss 2:3.68-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Maintainers of Mozilla-related packages 

Changed-By: Mike Hommey 
Changes:
 nss (2:3.68-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Marco d'Itri]

On Jul 19, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  wrote:

> So if I get it right...
Except for /boot/, which may be required for technical reasons, there 
is no need to further partition your file system unless you actually 
have reasons to do it.

> One partiton for /boot
> One partition for /usr
> One partition for /usr/local (if you feel like it)
> One / partiton that will contain not much stuff other than config files ?
> One partition for /var (if you feel)
> One partition for /opt, /srv ...
> One partition for /tmp
If you are aiming for overcomplexity then I think that you forgot /home.

> The root partition can be small as 16 Gb as it won't contain much ?
If you create a partition for everything else as described here then 
/ will only contain /etc and /root, so even 1 GB will be enough.
But again, I do not really recommend this.

I do not recommend to partition general purpose systems with less than 
a few hundreds of GBs of allocated disk space.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Description: PGP signature

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hello (Hi) !

On 2021-07-18 5:07 p.m., Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I think all of this is quite clearly explained in:
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/md/usrmerge/raw/master/debian/README.Debian
> 
> which is linked from:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
> 
> If you think it's not then you should probably raise a bug against
> the usrmerge package with your suggested edits/clarifications.
>
I've read the link above plus the link to
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/

So if I get it right...

One partiton for /boot
One partition for /usr
One partition for /usr/local (if you feel like it)
One / partiton that will contain not much stuff other than config files ?
One partition for /var (if you feel)
One partition for /opt, /srv ...
One partition for /tmp

The root partition can be small as 16 Gb as it won't contain much ?

Am I getting this right ?

Here's my actual partition table (2TB HD)

udev 16G 0   16G   0% /dev
tmpfs   3.2G  2.1M  3.2G   1% /run
/dev/sda3   184G   70G  105G  40% /
tmpfs16G  163M   16G   2% /dev/shm
tmpfs   5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
/dev/sda5   262G   50G  199G  21% /var
/dev/sda4   175G   86M  166G   1% /tmp
/dev/sda888G   60M   83G   1% /usr/local
/dev/sda792G  3.6G   84G   5% /opt
/dev/sda10   92G   60M   87G   1% /srv
/dev/sda1   487M  3.3M  483M   1% /boot/efi
/dev/sda11  733G  649G   47G  94% /home

I currently have a 70G usage of the root partition.
Running Buster.

> Andy
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 5:07 p.m., Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 04:31:11PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>> My personal opinion is that Debian is going into a mostly "we got the
>> best idea in the world but forgot that not everyone implement things the
>> same way".
> 
> I recommend understanding the issue before putting forth an opinion.
> 
Maybe I shall correct what I said as it may be misunderstood.

Without regard to this specific issue, I seem to have noticed that the
Debian project has made some change in good faith, based on some
technological conception of what is the best. But in the end, most user
seem not to need those change and be a source of problem for most of them.

I've had hell of a mess to understand the change to SystemD.

Not so long ago I even learned that it caused a fork for a Debian
derivative called Devuan.

For me it was a huge departure from the KISS philosophy and I feel that
this "usrmerge" is going the same way.

I will take time to review what you have gave me as link and see what
will be my opinion after this.

>> I currently have a different partition for my /usr and this has been the
>> case since the end of 1990s when I started on Linux. Maybe I'm wrong but
>> I like it this way.
>>
>> Will the merge-usr cause myself problem ?
> 
> No. Not as long as you use an initramfs created by any of the
> supported Debian tools like initramfs-tools or dracut, which you
> will do unless you have gone out of your way to do something
> different.
> 
I've did many Debian install, using the standard installation software,
creating those partition from the "expert" choice of install mode. And
never had problem, I believe that the initramfs tools must be doing
their job.

> And regardless of merged-/usr, /usr on separate partition has not
> been supported in Debian without an initramfs since the stretch
> release in 2017.
> 
I've used Stretch with a separate /usr without much problem, as said above.

> I think all of this is quite clearly explained in:
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/md/usrmerge/raw/master/debian/README.Debian
> 
> which is linked from:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
> 
> If you think it's not then you should probably raise a bug against
> the usrmerge package with your suggested edits/clarifications.
> 
> Andy
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 5:31 p.m., Svante Signell wrote:
> Hi, is it OK to forward your mail to debian-devel. I don't think
> mailing to debian-user will have any effect on this issue?
>  
Sure ! Honestly it's my mistake to have sent it to debian-user.
I get everything in one mailbox. I need to have this sorted out and use
one mailbox for each mailing list.

Thanks

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Accepted nspr 2:4.32-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 06:13:28 +0900
Source: nspr
Architecture: source
Version: 2:4.32-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Maintainers of Mozilla-related packages 

Changed-By: Mike Hommey 
Closes: 991234
Changes:
 nspr (2:4.32-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release. Closes: #991234.
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Bug#991261: ITP: adr-tools -- tools for working with Architecture Decision Records (ADRs)

[Zygmunt Krynicki]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Zygmunt Krynicki 
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, m...@zygoon.pl

* Package name: adr-tools
  Version : 3.0.0
  Upstream Author : Nat Pryce 
* URL : https://github.com/npryce/adr-tools
* License : GPL-3
  Programming Lang: Shell
  Description : tools for working with Architecture Decision Records (ADRs)

Architecture Decision Records or ADRs for short encode architectural
decisions through the lifetime of a project. They are meant to help future
maintainers to understand how the project came do be the way it is. ADRs can
help understand past decisions, supersede them with new decisions and list
currently effective decisions.

This package is useful for working with ADR documents. It has very
little upstream activity at this time so I don't expect it to be a
maintenance burden. I plan to use the package myself and I wanted to
share it with others.

I plan to maintain it myself, with sponsor supporting the upload
process. Co-maintainers are welcome if more people are interested.

Bug#991260: ITP: node-dompurify -- DOM-only, super-fast, uber-tolerant XSS sanitizer

[Pirate Praveen]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Pirate Praveen 
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

* Package name : node-dompurify
 Version : 2.3.0
 Upstream Author : Mario Heiderich  
(https://cure53.de/)

* URL : https://github.com/cure53/DOMPurify
* License : (MPL-2.0 OR Apache-2.0)
 Programming Lang: JavaScript
 Description : DOM-only, super-fast, uber-tolerant XSS sanitizer
DOMPurify is a DOM-only, super-fast, uber-tolerant XSS sanitizer for 
HTML,
MathML and SVG. It's written in JavaScript and works in all modern 
browsers
(Safari, Opera (15+), Internet Explorer (10+), Firefox and Chrome - as 
well as
almost anything else using else using Blink or WebKit. It doesn't 
break on
MSIE6 or other legacy browsers. It either uses a fall-back or simply 
does

nothing.
.
Node.js is an event-based server-side JavaScript engine.

This is a dependency of @gitlab/ui which is a dependncy of gitlab.

Accepted netdiscover 0.7-4 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Joao Eriberto Mota Filho 
Changed-By: Joao Eriberto Mota Filho 
Closes: 991258
Changes:
 netdiscover (0.7-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * debian/patches/030_fix_cidr24.patch: created to fix no results with CIDR 
/24
 and libpcap >= 1.10. Thanks to Enrico Schmitz. (Closes: #991258)
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Helmut Grohne]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 01:15:37PM +0200, Magissia wrote:
> In this case, this page should be updated to reflect the fact it is not
> broken.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/MergedUsr

Logic does not quite work that way. Just because we selected that way of
doing things doesn't imply it would not be broken. Arguably, if it
wasn't broken, there would not have been a need to defer the decision to
the CTTE as there would have been consensus on choosing the non-broken
way already. The CTTE was tasked to choose the less broken one of two
broken options and it did.

>From a dpkg pov, the aliasing technique continues to be broken and the
solution continues to manifest as unintuitive behaviour and related
issues. Calling that broken sounds fair to me.

The thing that makes me a little grumpy about this is that the
proponents of the /usr merge continue stuffing ever more fingers into
their ears when faced with problems. I for one wouldn't care as much if
the /usr merge wasn't that much of a time sink to me. For instance, I
happened to be one of the first affected users of dpkg-shlibdeps ceasing
to work. I'd really like to ignore the whole mess and leave it to
others (and that includes not opposing it).

I also note that there is a subtle difference between those who disagree
with the /usr merge and those that disagree with its implementation
strategy. The former ones seems like a very small minority to me. As a
result, reiterating the "why" is kinda pointless as there already seems
to be consensus on that front. As for the how, there seems to be rough
consensus that all implementation strategies are broken one way or
another. We just get to pick the least painful one and deferred the
choice to the CTTE.

Maybe someone could fix #858331 et al and we can move on?

Helmut

Accepted gnome-dictionary 40.0-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 16:14:15 -0400
Source: gnome-dictionary
Built-For-Profiles: noudeb
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Version: 40.0-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jeremy Bicha 
Changes:
 gnome-dictionary (40.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * Bump debhelper-compat to 13
   * Bump minimum meson to 0.54.0
   * Build-Depend on dh-sequence-gir and dh-sequence-gnome
   * Drop all patches: applied in new release
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Accepted gnome-maps 40.3-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jeremy Bicha 
Changes:
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 .
   * New upstream release
   * Bump debhelper-compat to 13
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Accepted fbless 0.2.3-5 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QA Group 
Changed-By: Sebastian Ramacher 
Closes: 968498
Changes:
 fbless (0.2.3-5) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Sebastian Ramacher ]
   * QA upload
   * debian/control: Orphan package
 .
   [ Stepan Golosunov ]
   * debian/patches: Fix Python 3 support (Closes: #968498)
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Accepted docopt.cpp 0.6.2-2.2 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Science Maintainers 

Changed-By: Daniel Baumann 
Closes: 991256
Changes:
 docopt.cpp (0.6.2-2.2) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Non-maintainer upload.
   * Including docopt.cpp in /usr/include as referenced in docopt.h
 for packages that need it (Closes: #991256).
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Accepted gimp 2.10.24-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

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 gimp (2.10.24-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
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Accepted emscripten 2.0.13~dfsg-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Source: emscripten
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Version: 2.0.13~dfsg-1
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Javascript Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jonas Smedegaard 
Changes:
 emscripten (2.0.13~dfsg-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ upstream ]
   * new release
 .
   [ Jonas Smedegaard ]
   * copyright:
 + update list of repackaging-excluded files
 + update coverage
   * update source-only part of upstream source-map script
   * unfuzz patches
   * use debhelper compatibility level 13 (not 12)
   * update documentation source path
   * fix really tighten build-dependency on binaryen
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Svante Signell]

On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 23:40 +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:
> On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 19:54:56 +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > Sean Whitton dixit:
> > > * #978636 move to merged-usr-only?
> > > 
> > >  We were asked to decide whether or not Debian 'bookworm' should
> > >  continue to support systems which are not using the merged-usr
> > >  filesystem layout.  We decided that support should not continue
> > > beyond Debian 'bullseye'.
> > 
> > What? WHAT? ＷＨＡＴ？
> > 
> > >  The decision is captured here:
> > >  
> > 
> > No reason provided either. This stinks. I’m v̲e̲r̲y̲ disappointed.
> > Debian is becoming untenable. Years ago, I had hoped it won’t.
> 
> I've been meaning to send a note about this for some time now, but
> as I feel it keeps getting ignored, it always seems a bit pointless.
> 
> But in any case, given that merged-usr-via-aliased-dirs is not really
> supported by dpkg anyway, it is broken by design [B], I have no
> intention whatsoever to break any of my systems with such layout
> going forward, I'm thus planning to spend any necessary volunteer
> time implementing any fix, workaround or solution required to avoid
> having to use it, in detriment of other Debian volunteer time. I
> alreadystarted some time ago with dpkg-fsys-usrunmess(8), present
> already inthe upcoming bullseye release.
> 
[B] 
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/FAQ#Q:_Does_dpkg_support_merged-.2Fusr-via-aliased-dirs.3F
>

Since the dpkg developer and maintainer Guillem considers merged /usr
broken by design, maybe Debian should consider to use some other
package management software for the peace of mind for people involved
in the project? Maybe guix could be usable?

Accepted gegl 1:0.4.30-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 13:47:03 -0400
Source: gegl
Built-For-Profiles: noudeb
Architecture: source
Version: 1:0.4.30-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jeremy Bicha 
Closes: 985566
Changes:
 gegl (1:0.4.30-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Jeremy Bicha ]
   * New upstream release
   * Drop fix-build-new-glib.patch: Applied in new release
 .
   [ Laurent Bigonville ]
   * debian/control.in: Suggest the graphviz package
 gegl now needs the "dot" executable for some optional features
 (Closes: #985566)
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Accepted jetty9 9.4.39-3 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 19:37:57 +0200
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Urgency: high
Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers 

Changed-By: Markus Koschany 
Closes: 991188
Changes:
 jetty9 (9.4.39-3) unstable; urgency=high
 .
   * Team upload.
   * Fix CVE-2021-34429:
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 the WEB-INF directory and/or bypass some security constraints.
 Thanks to Salvatore Bonaccorso for the report. (Closes: #991188)
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Accepted babl 1:0.1.88-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

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 babl (1:0.1.88-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Andrey Rahmatullin]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 10:11:22PM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> While, AFAIK, it's indeed only Debian Policy stopping you from not
> shipping /usr/share/doc/*/copyright, and that and common sense stopping
> you from not shipping /usr/share/doc/*/changelog, that's just yet another
> case of something broken that we probably are not required to support.
... even though these files really belong with other dpkg metadata in
/var/lib/dpkg...

-- 
WBR, wRAR


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Andrey Rahmatullin]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 04:50:49PM +, Stephan Verbücheln wrote:
> Thank you for the explanation. I think it covers most use cases.
> However, it does not cover packages that do not actually install
> programs but only perform changes to /etc or install something to /opt,
> is that correct?
While, AFAIK, it's indeed only Debian Policy stopping you from not
shipping /usr/share/doc/*/copyright, and that and common sense stopping
you from not shipping /usr/share/doc/*/changelog, that's just yet another
case of something broken that we probably are not required to support.

-- 
WBR, wRAR


signature.asc
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Accepted vip-manager 1.0.1-4 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:52:20 +0200
Source: vip-manager
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Version: 1.0.1-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian PostgreSQL Maintainers 
Changed-By: Michael Banck 
Closes: 990119
Changes:
 vip-manager (1.0.1-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * debian/patches/service_file.patch: Fix command-line arguments to use two
 dashes for long options, instead of one and update options to their 1.0
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Stephan Verbücheln]

Thank you for the explanation. I think it covers most use cases.
However, it does not cover packages that do not actually install
programs but only perform changes to /etc or install something to /opt,
is that correct?

Regards

Accepted php-psr-log 3.0.0-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian PHP PEAR Maintainers 
Changed-By: David Prévot 
Changes:
 php-psr-log (3.0.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Larry Garfield ]
   * Add return types.
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Accepted evince 40.4-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Source: evince
Built-For-Profiles: noudeb
Architecture: source
Version: 40.4-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers 

Changed-By: Jeremy Bicha 
Changes:
 evince (40.4-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * Revert "debian/control.in: workaround gnome-pkg-tools"
   * debian/control.in: Build-Depend on dh-sequence-gnome >= 22
 for updated gnome:NextVersion
   * debian/watch: Update for GNOME 40 style version numbering
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Accepted klog 1.7-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 15:09:17 +
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 .
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Marco d'Itri]

On Jul 18, Stephan Verbücheln  wrote:

> On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 11:13 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > I link /var/lib/dpkg/ to somewhere in /usr/, and I think that this is
> > 
> What? No matter whether we merge “/bin” or not, “/usr” should stay
> read-only.
The dpkg database IS read-only as long as you are not installing or 
removing packages, which you cannot do anyway if /usr is read-only.
In other words, the read-only state of the dpkg database is tightly 
coupled with the read-only state of /usr.

The only corner case which would require some more thinking is how to 
handle changing diversions of files in /etc in the systems with the 
read-only /usr, and for the time being "don't do that" could be 
a totally valid solution.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Accepted php-psr-log 2.0.0-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 17:35:51 +0200
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian PHP PEAR Maintainers 
Changed-By: David Prévot 
Changes:
 php-psr-log (2.0.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Larry Garfield ]
   * Remove outdated test files.
   * Require PHP 8.0 for Stringable support.
   * Add parameter types.
   * Add property type.
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 .
   [ David Prévot ]
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Accepted php-nyholm-psr7 1.4.1-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 17:39:10 +0200
Source: php-nyholm-psr7
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian PHP PEAR Maintainers 
Changed-By: David Prévot 
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 php-nyholm-psr7 (1.4.1-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Martijn van der Ven ]
   * Wrap fopen for PHP 8 (#174)
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Accepted meson 0.59.0-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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 .
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Accepted libxml2 2.9.12+dfsg-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Debian XML/SGML Group 
Changed-By: Mattia Rizzolo 
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 .
   * Team upload.
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   * Drop patches applied upstream.
   * d/libxml2.symbols: Add a new symbol.
   * d/control: Bump Standards-Version to 4.5.1, no changes needed.
   * d/rules:
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 + Drop the --as-needed linking flag, the default starting from bullseye.
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Accepted qemu 1:5.2+dfsg-11 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 16:14:41 +0300
Source: qemu
Architecture: source
Version: 1:5.2+dfsg-11
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QEMU Team 
Changed-By: Michael Tokarev 
Closes: 983575 988157 990563 990564 990565 990675
Changes:
 qemu (1:5.2+dfsg-11) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * i386-acpi-restore-device-paths-for-pre-5.1-vms.patch
 This fixes a serious issue in some VMs (in particuar, Windows & MacOS)
 when migrating from buster qemu to bullseye qemu.
 (Closes: #990675)
   * pvrdma-fix-possible-mremap-overflow-in-pvrdma-device-CVE-2021-3582.patch
 (Closes: #990565, CVE-2021-3582)
   * pvrdma-ensure-correct-input-on-ring-init-CVE-2021-3607.patch
 (Closes: #990564, CVE-2021-3607)
   * pvrdma-fix-the-ring-init-error-flow-CVE-2021-3608.patch
 (Closes: #990563, CVE-2021-3608)
   * ide-atapi-check-logical-block-address-and-read-size-CVE-2020-29443.patch
 (Closes: #983575, CVE-2020-29443)
   * usb-limit-combined-packets-to-1-MiB-CVE-2021-3527.patch
 usb-redir-avoid-dynamic-stack-allocation-CVE-2021-3527.patch
 (Closes: #988157, CVE-2021-3527)
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Accepted ghostscript 9.54.0~dfsg-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Printing Team 
Changed-By: Jonas Smedegaard 
Changes:
 ghostscript (9.54.0~dfsg-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   [ upstream ]
   * new release
 .
   * update copyright info:
 + exclude comvenience copies
   of projects libextract, leptonica, and tesseract
 + update coverage
 + update source helper tool copyright-check:
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   * drop patches cherry-picked upstream since applied
   * unfuzz patches
   * add patches cherry-picked upstream:
 + improve description of configure.ac option --with-extract-dir
 + fix magic number used in pam device
 + fix MacOS/tesseract build problems on Unix systems
 + work with latest Extract library
 + bounds check name table "string"
 + add some relevant flags to the cups compilation
 + do not lie about emitting Multiple Master fonts in psfwrite
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 + fix missing interior of rectangles (regression in 9.54.0)
 + tweak Leptonica/Tesseract memory allocators
   * add patch 1004 to enable DeviceN-related device xcfcmyk
   * use debhelper compatibility level 13 (not 12)
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Accepted apertium-swe-dan 0.8.1-2 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Science Team 

Changed-By: Kartik Mistry 
Closes: 991241
Changes:
 apertium-swe-dan (0.8.1-2) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   [ Tino Didriksen ]
   * Depend on apertium-lex-tools (Closes: #991241)
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Accepted irclog2html 2.17.3-2 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Mattia Rizzolo 
Changed-By: Mattia Rizzolo 
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 irclog2html (2.17.3-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Update d/copyright for the license change from GPL-2+ to "GPL-2 or GPL-3".
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Andrey Rahmatullin]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 11:09:49AM +, Stephan Verbücheln wrote:
> On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 11:13 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > I link /var/lib/dpkg/ to somewhere in /usr/, and I think that this is
> > 
> 
> What? No matter whether we merge “/bin” or not, “/usr” should stay
> read-only.
On Debian /usr is changed only when /var/lib/dpkg is changed (ideally).

-- 
WBR, wRAR


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Stephan Verbücheln]

On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 11:13 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> I link /var/lib/dpkg/ to somewhere in /usr/, and I think that this is
> 

What? No matter whether we merge “/bin” or not, “/usr” should stay
read-only.

Regards

Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Bastian Blank]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 11:13:37AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Jul 18, Simon McVittie  wrote:
> > If a machine's /usr is not in sync with its /etc and /var, then it is likely
> > to work incorrectly: at a minimum, asking dpkg which packages and versions
> But in my experience (with shared-/usr containers) this works great as 
> long as everything is aligned to the same major Debian release.

So we can just merge it and make it break even less likely?

Bastian

-- 
A princess should not be afraid -- not with a brave knight to protect her.
-- McCoy, "Shore Leave", stardate 3025.3

Accepted largetifftools 1.4-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Gürkan Myczko 
Changed-By: Gürkan Myczko 
Changes:
 largetifftools (1.4-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
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   * Bump debhelper version to 13, drop d/compat.
   * Bump standards version to 4.5.1.
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Accepted irclog2html 2.17.3-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Mattia Rizzolo 
Changed-By: Mattia Rizzolo 
Changes:
 irclog2html (2.17.3-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Mattia Rizzolo ]
   * New upstream version 2.17.3.
   * d/control:
 + Bump debhelper compat level to 13.
 + Build-depend on dh-sequence-python3 instead of using `--with python3`.
 + Bump Standards-Version to 4.5.1, no changes needed.
 .
   [ Debian Janitor ]
   * Set upstream metadata fields: Bug-Database, Bug-Submit, Repository,
 Repository-Browse.
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Accepted django-qr-code 2.2.0-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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   * New upstream version 2.2.0.
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Accepted python-pyqtgraph 0.12.2-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Marco d'Itri]

On Jul 18, Simon McVittie  wrote:

> If a machine's /usr is not in sync with its /etc and /var, then it is likely
> to work incorrectly: at a minimum, asking dpkg which packages and versions
But in my experience (with shared-/usr containers) this works great as 
long as everything is aligned to the same major Debian release.

> are installed will give you an answer that does not match what is actually
> in /usr.
I link /var/lib/dpkg/ to somewhere in /usr/, and I think that this is 
something that we should do anyway.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Accepted openjdk-17 17~31ea-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: OpenJDK Team 
Changed-By: Matthias Klose 
Changes:
 openjdk-17 (17~31ea-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * OpenJDK 17 snapshot, build 31.
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Accepted progress-linux 20210101-2 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Daniel Baumann 
Changed-By: Daniel Baumann 
Closes: 986501 987667
Changes:
 progress-linux (20210101-2) sid; urgency=medium
 .
   * Uploading to sid.
   * Adding initial Brazilian Portuguese debconf translations from Jorge
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Accepted leveldb 1.23-1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Maintainer: Laszlo Boszormenyi (GCS) 
Changed-By: Laszlo Boszormenyi (GCS) 
Closes: 946291
Changes:
 leveldb (1.23-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
   * Update patches.
   * Update packaging bits.
   * Update debhelper level to 13 .
   * Update Standards-Version to 4.5.1 .
 .
   [ Steve Langasek  ]
   * Make autopkgtests cross-test-friendly (closes: #946291).
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Re: merged /usr considered harmful

[Geert Stappers]

Summary: let go, let go

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 09:13:57PM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> 
> And no, I’m not going to embrace every unnecessary change thrown my way.

None of us does embraces every unnecessary change.
We all choose our battles wisely.


> No; usrmerge is broken from the PoV of Debian’s package manager.
> Running usrmerge breaks assumptions done by dpkg; you can probably
> do it with RPM or something, but it’s not supported with dpkg.

Hence a change.


Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Accepted picolibc 1.7.2-1 (source) into unstable

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 17:57:26 -0700
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Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Keith Packard 
Changed-By: Keith Packard 
Changes:
 picolibc (1.7.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fix picolibc.ld to split C++ exceptions back apart (thanks to
 Khalil Estell)
 .
   * Add vsscanf to tinystdio (required for libstdc++).
 .
   * Also stick -isystem in C++ compile command to try and get
 picolibc headers to be used instead of newlib.
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Accepted stella 6.5.3-1~exp1 (source) into experimental

[Debian FTP Masters]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 07:38:40 +0200
Source: stella
Architecture: source
Version: 6.5.3-1~exp1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Games Team 
Changed-By: Stephen Kitt 
Changes:
 stella (6.5.3-1~exp1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream bug-fix release.
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