Re: transition to usrmerge to start around 2022-09-15 (next Thursday)

2022-09-11 Thread Marc Haber
On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 11:08:44 -0400, Marvin Renich 
wrote:
>* Ansgar  [220910 09:37]:
>> the transition to usrmerge as described in [1] is planned to start
>> around 2022-09-15 (next Thursday).
>[snip]
>> We will send an announcement to debian-devel-announce@ once the upload
>> to unstable happens.
>
>What is the point in waiting until after the upload to send to
>debian-devel-announce?  I would think that most users running
>testing/unstable would want prior notice, and you shouldn't assume that
>all users will read their mail before performing a routine
>update/upgrade cycle on the morning after the upload.  I don't think
>everyone running testing/unstable reads debian-devel, so I think it
>would be appropriate to send to -announce at least one (two?) day(s)
>before the upload.

And, is there a solution for the existing conflict with the dpkg
maintainer?

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834



Re: packages expected to fail on some archs

2022-09-11 Thread Paul Wise
On Sun, 2022-09-11 at 23:07 +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:

> Architecture lists containing all 64bit ports or all little endian
> ports create much extra work for anyone adding support for a new
> 64bit little endian architecture.

Since dpkg already knows about the bits and endianness of ports,
perhaps it could add some sort of architecture wildcard system,
which would get resolved to real architectures at .dsc build time?

Alternatively the wildcards could be added to the .dsc too but that
would require sbuild, wb, dak and other tools to understand them too.

Until one of those happens, an unofficial Architecture-Tags field that
the Debian Janitor could use to update Architecture fields might work.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part


Re: packages expected to fail on some archs

2022-09-11 Thread Rene Engelhard

Hi,


Am 11.09.22 um 22:07 schrieb Adrian Bunk:

On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 05:08:57PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:

...
The issue we see is that some DDs end up setting a hardcoded list in
the "Architecture" field, rather than just letting builds keep failing
on these archs (and then possibly succeeding after some time whenever
somebody contributes a fix upstream that gets propagated to Debian).
...

I'd say it is the best solution when a package needs non-trivial
architecture-specific porting for every architecture it supports.

With "non-trivial" I mean not just adding a new architecture to a few
#ifdefs, but serious upstream porting efforts. E.g. valgrind does not
support riscv64, and if it would ever gain the support in a new upstream
version I'd expect the maintainer to add that to the Architecture field
when upstream announces support for a new architecture.


As a maintainer of such package I agree.

I would not like it to fail when it is known that it won't work. Ever.

Unless someone actually writes the matching asm part, knowing the ABI 
and calling convetions, etc.



Regards,


Reme



Re: packages expected to fail on some archs

2022-09-11 Thread Adrian Bunk
On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 05:08:57PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>...
> The issue we see is that some DDs end up setting a hardcoded list in
> the "Architecture" field, rather than just letting builds keep failing
> on these archs (and then possibly succeeding after some time whenever
> somebody contributes a fix upstream that gets propagated to Debian).
>...

I'd say it is the best solution when a package needs non-trivial
architecture-specific porting for every architecture it supports.

With "non-trivial" I mean not just adding a new architecture to a few 
#ifdefs, but serious upstream porting efforts. E.g. valgrind does not
support riscv64, and if it would ever gain the support in a new upstream
version I'd expect the maintainer to add that to the Architecture field
when upstream announces support for a new architecture.

But Architecture lists for expressing e.g. "64bit" or "little endian"
are a real pain for everyone working on bringup of a new port.

Which happens far more often than most people realize.

There is not only riscv64 (64bit, little endian).

Ports is about to start building for arc (32bit, little endian).

There are people working on ports like arm64be (64bit, big endian),
loongarch64 (64bit, little endian) and many other ports that might
never end up being built in the Debian infrastructure (but some of
them might get built by derivatives).

Architecture lists containing all 64bit ports or all little endian
ports create much extra work for anyone adding support for a new 64bit 
little endian architecture.

> Samuel

cu
Adrian



Re: packages expected to fail on some archs

2022-09-11 Thread Adrian Bunk
On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 09:25:40PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Paul Gevers, le dim. 11 sept. 2022 21:16:08 +0200, a ecrit:
> > 
> > - color packages that "never" had a successful built on an architecture
> > different. That information is already available because that's what marks
> > the package as "uncompiled" vs "out-of-date".
>...
> That doesn't cover the case when a package stopped building on an arch,
> though.

In practive it does, when Paul wrote "never" that actually means
"no older version is in the archive on that architecture".

On release architectures people are usually fast with getting stale 
versions of no longer buildable packages removed since it prevents
testing migration.

> Samuel

cu
Adrian



Re: packages expected to fail on some archs

2022-09-11 Thread Samuel Thibault
Paul Gevers, le dim. 11 sept. 2022 21:16:08 +0200, a ecrit:
> On 11-09-2022 17:08, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > We could for instance:
> > - Add an Architecture-FTBFS field to debian/control
> > - Add an environment variable to debian/rules so that on these archs dh
> >fails with a different exit code that buildds would notice.
> > - Add a Architecture-FTBFS field in the wb database that DDs can set
> 
> - color packages that "never" had a successful built on an architecture
> different. That information is already available because that's what marks
> the package as "uncompiled" vs "out-of-date".

Oh, right, that information is already available in wb.  Mehdi, do you
think you can implement that easily for a start?

That doesn't cover the case when a package stopped building on an arch,
though.

Samuel



Re: packages expected to fail on some archs

2022-09-11 Thread Paul Gevers

Hi Samuel,

On 11-09-2022 17:08, Samuel Thibault wrote:

We could for instance:
- Add an Architecture-FTBFS field to debian/control
- Add an environment variable to debian/rules so that on these archs dh
   fails with a different exit code that buildds would notice.
- Add a Architecture-FTBFS field in the wb database that DDs can set


- color packages that "never" had a successful built on an architecture 
different. That information is already available because that's what 
marks the package as "uncompiled" vs "out-of-date".


I think it has added value if both cases (marked by the maintainer vs 
detected automatically) have value and could have different colors. 
Comparing it to autopkgtest, we currently color no-regression orange, 
while "neutral" (because of all kind of reasons, but the result of an 
actively set property) is blue.


Paul


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature


Bug#1019543: ITP: golang-github-bsm-go-vlq -- variable-length quantity encoding library

2022-09-11 Thread 陳昌倬
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: ChangZhuo Chen (陳昌倬) 
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

* Package name: golang-github-bsm-go-vlq
  Version : 0.0~git20150828.ec6e8d4
  Upstream Author : Dimitrij Denissenko
* URL : https://github.com/bsm/go-vlq
* License : Expat
  Programming Lang: golang
  Description : variable-length quantity encoding library

This package will be maintained under Debian Go Packaging Team.
This is dependencies of terraform-switcher (https://bugs.debian.org/1014440).

-- 
ChangZhuo Chen (陳昌倬) czchen@{czchen,debian}.org
http://czchen.info/
Key fingerprint = BA04 346D C2E1 FE63 C790  8793 CC65 B0CD EC27 5D5B


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: transition to usrmerge to start around 2022-09-15 (next Thursday)

2022-09-11 Thread Marvin Renich
* Ansgar  [220910 09:37]:
> the transition to usrmerge as described in [1] is planned to start
> around 2022-09-15 (next Thursday).
[snip]
> We will send an announcement to debian-devel-announce@ once the upload
> to unstable happens.

What is the point in waiting until after the upload to send to
debian-devel-announce?  I would think that most users running
testing/unstable would want prior notice, and you shouldn't assume that
all users will read their mail before performing a routine
update/upgrade cycle on the morning after the upload.  I don't think
everyone running testing/unstable reads debian-devel, so I think it
would be appropriate to send to -announce at least one (two?) day(s)
before the upload.

...Marvin



packages expected to fail on some archs

2022-09-11 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello,

We have been discussing a bit on #debian-ports about packages that fail
to build on less-mainstream architectures.

The issue we see is that some DDs end up setting a hardcoded list in
the "Architecture" field, rather than just letting builds keep failing
on these archs (and then possibly succeeding after some time whenever
somebody contributes a fix upstream that gets propagated to Debian).

First, perhaps it's worth reminding to DDs is that it's fine for a
package to show up as FTBFS on the buildd status for some archs: that's
not RC if the binary packages for that arch are not in testing (and
even then, an RM request can fix that, to just express the unfortunate
regression)

That said, I guess DDs would still set a manual Arch list so as to get
the red flags away from their sight on the buildd page status, e.g. from
https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=sthibault%40debian.org&comaint=yes&compact=compact
so that they can easily notice which build failures are actually not
expected, to be able to efficiently work on those.

So perhaps what is missing is a way to express that an FTBFS is
expected, so that the buildd page status represents it differently, e.g.
in orange rather than red?  The idea would be that it should be really
easy to set (as easy as setting an Architecture list) so that we can
easily recommend it.

We could for instance:
- Add an Architecture-FTBFS field to debian/control
- Add an environment variable to debian/rules so that on these archs dh
  fails with a different exit code that buildds would notice.
- Add a Architecture-FTBFS field in the wb database that DDs can set

The tricky part I see is that AIUI the buildd status page doesn't
have direct access to debian/control, only to the wb database, so the
first solution is not immediate to implement. The third option would
be the most obvious from the buildd point of view, but that's not very
convenient for DDs. Possibly such field could be automatically set
according to the Packages entry when a newer upload is done?

Samuel



Re: Presenting DPKG_ROOT

2022-09-11 Thread Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues
Hi,

Quoting Josh Triplett (2022-09-11 15:26:52)
> Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues wrote:
> > What do you think? Is this the right solution to the problem? A few more 
> > bits
> > about DPKG_ROOT as well as alternative solution proposals (including 
> > rejected
> > ones) can be found on this wiki page:
> > 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/Spec/InstallBootstrap#Proposal:_chrootless_maintscripts
> > 
> > So lets come back to our question of scope: Right now, our DPKG_ROOT patches
> > are limited to Essential:yes, build-essential, apt and systemd. We also
> > restrict the mechanism to initial installations only and upgrades are not
> > supported. We also currently require that the system (and its tools) on the
> > outside must be the same as the chroot that is being created with 
> > DPKG_ROOT. As
> > far as enabling very early architecture bootstrap goes, this solves the
> > problem.
> > 
> > So what do you think? Is this okay? Is there a better solution?
> 
> So, first of all, I'm thrilled to see work on improving bootstrapping
> and cross-bootstrapping. I'm also thrilled to see DPKG_ROOT being
> discussed more broadly.
> 
> Regarding the specific solution: the DPKG_ROOT approach has concerned me
> since it was introduced, because maintainer scripts run as root, so a
> bug in one package's DPKG_ROOT support (let alone the absence of
> DPKG_ROOT support) would result in modifying the host system rather than the
> target chroot.

That is correct.

> I would love to see the DPKG_ROOT support augmented with `unshare`, a mount
> namespace, a UID namespace, and a chroot, such that:
> 
> - The host filesystem is bind-mounted read-only.
> - Host devices are not available (only a minimal /dev); this will also
>   help ensure bootstraps don't depend on any aspect of the host system.
> - The maintainer scripts run as container-root, but not as host-root, so
>   that they can't accidentally change any aspect of the host.
> 
> This could still make use of the existing DPKG_ROOT support; this would
> be completely transparent to the maintainer scripts and tools ported
> thus far.
> 
> This would also allow bootstrapping as non-root, on systems that allow
> creating UID namespaces as non-root.
> 
> As a bonus, testsuites could use an overlayfs instead of a read-only
> bind mount, and then check afterwards if *any* changes occurred in the
> overlay, which would be a test failure.
> 
> Does that seem like a reasonable addition to the DPKG_ROOT support?

Bind-mounting the host system read-only is an interesting idea that we haven't
tried out yet. To avoid unintended modifications of the host system we are
currently testing two different approaches in our CI system:

 1. we run the whole chroot creation inside fakeroot. That way, the maintainer
scripts think they are run as root but they actually cannot modify anything
important.

 2. we run the chroot creation as root but inside mmdebstrap in unshare mode.
We create a tarball of the outer system before and after running the
DPKG_ROOT method and then compare these two tarballs to make sure that no
changes were done in the outer system.

I think making the outer system read-only via bind-mounts is another valuable
test that we should implement.

Thanks!

cheers, josch

signature.asc
Description: signature


Re: Presenting DPKG_ROOT

2022-09-11 Thread Josh Triplett
Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues wrote:
> What do you think? Is this the right solution to the problem? A few more bits
> about DPKG_ROOT as well as alternative solution proposals (including rejected
> ones) can be found on this wiki page:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/Spec/InstallBootstrap#Proposal:_chrootless_maintscripts
> 
> So lets come back to our question of scope: Right now, our DPKG_ROOT patches
> are limited to Essential:yes, build-essential, apt and systemd. We also
> restrict the mechanism to initial installations only and upgrades are not
> supported. We also currently require that the system (and its tools) on the
> outside must be the same as the chroot that is being created with DPKG_ROOT. 
> As
> far as enabling very early architecture bootstrap goes, this solves the
> problem.
> 
> So what do you think? Is this okay? Is there a better solution?

So, first of all, I'm thrilled to see work on improving bootstrapping
and cross-bootstrapping. I'm also thrilled to see DPKG_ROOT being
discussed more broadly.

Regarding the specific solution: the DPKG_ROOT approach has concerned me
since it was introduced, because maintainer scripts run as root, so a
bug in one package's DPKG_ROOT support (let alone the absence of
DPKG_ROOT support) would result in modifying the host system rather than
the target chroot.

I would love to see the DPKG_ROOT support augmented with `unshare`, a
mount namespace, a UID namespace, and a chroot, such that:

- The host filesystem is bind-mounted read-only.
- Host devices are not available (only a minimal /dev); this will also
  help ensure bootstraps don't depend on any aspect of the host system.
- The maintainer scripts run as container-root, but not as host-root, so
  that they can't accidentally change any aspect of the host.

This could still make use of the existing DPKG_ROOT support; this would
be completely transparent to the maintainer scripts and tools ported
thus far.

This would also allow bootstrapping as non-root, on systems that allow
creating UID namespaces as non-root.

As a bonus, testsuites could use an overlayfs instead of a read-only
bind mount, and then check afterwards if *any* changes occurred in the
overlay, which would be a test failure.

Does that seem like a reasonable addition to the DPKG_ROOT support?

- Josh Triplett



Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

2022-09-11 Thread Andrey Rahmatullin
On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 03:09:07PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
>  Stuffing them behind a command, possibly making them online only in the
>  process will arguably make system troubleshooting and administration 
>  harder,
>  esp. if the system has connectivity issues.
>  
>  If something critical breaks, I can boot to recovery and look at the logs
>  and changelogs of recently updated packages. Having recent-ish 
>  changelogs on
>  the disk arguably accelerates the fixing process.
> >>> I don't think removing recent-ish changelogs from the disk is proposed
> >>> here.
> >> 
> >> Again, I may have misread, then. Because what I understood is
> >> 
> >> Trim changelogs:
> >> 1. Convert them to metadata
> >> 2. Ship untrimmed part in package DB
> >> 3. Get remaining part from network
> >> 
> >> Effectively eliminating /usr/share/doc/*changelog* files.
> > Even this isn't "making them online only".
> 
> Yes, you’re right. However, my reservation is whether dpkg is more prone to 
> breaking in disaster recovery scenarios. Reading a gzipped file is always 
> simpler than querying a DB via more abstraction.
I assume that cases when your dpkg database is broken and cases when you
need to read changelogs of updated packages shouldn't intersect.

-- 
WBR, wRAR


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

2022-09-11 Thread Hakan Bayındır



> On 11 Sep 2022, at 14:59, Andrey Rahmatullin  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 02:41:24PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
>>> On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
 While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some
 reservations against treating changelogs as metadata.
 
 Current changelogs as files have a well known place, can be used by 
 anything
 and everything, and they are local.
>>> Assuming you are talking about making changelogs available at a dpkg
>>> command, as in the RPM world, it's actually making the way to get a
>>> package changelog more well-known, not less.
>> 
>> If this created the opposite effect in RPM world w.r.t. my theory, then I 
>> stand corrected.
> It didn't create anything because that was how it worked from the
> beginning.
> But yes, it's easier to run -q --changelog than write a full file path.

While I manage RPM based systems too, I’m not that familiar with depths of RPM.

> 
 Stuffing them behind a command, possibly making them online only in the
 process will arguably make system troubleshooting and administration 
 harder,
 esp. if the system has connectivity issues.
 
 If something critical breaks, I can boot to recovery and look at the logs
 and changelogs of recently updated packages. Having recent-ish changelogs 
 on
 the disk arguably accelerates the fixing process.
>>> I don't think removing recent-ish changelogs from the disk is proposed
>>> here.
>> 
>> Again, I may have misread, then. Because what I understood is
>> 
>> Trim changelogs:
>> 1. Convert them to metadata
>> 2. Ship untrimmed part in package DB
>> 3. Get remaining part from network
>> 
>> Effectively eliminating /usr/share/doc/*changelog* files.
> Even this isn't "making them online only".

Yes, you’re right. However, my reservation is whether dpkg is more prone to 
breaking in disaster recovery scenarios. Reading a gzipped file is always 
simpler than querying a DB via more abstraction.

Cheers,

H.

> -- 
> WBR, wRAR



Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

2022-09-11 Thread Andrey Rahmatullin
On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 02:41:24PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
> >> While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some
> >> reservations against treating changelogs as metadata.
> >> 
> >> Current changelogs as files have a well known place, can be used by 
> >> anything
> >> and everything, and they are local.
> > Assuming you are talking about making changelogs available at a dpkg
> > command, as in the RPM world, it's actually making the way to get a
> > package changelog more well-known, not less.
> 
> If this created the opposite effect in RPM world w.r.t. my theory, then I 
> stand corrected.
It didn't create anything because that was how it worked from the
beginning.
But yes, it's easier to run -q --changelog than write a full file path.

> >> Stuffing them behind a command, possibly making them online only in the
> >> process will arguably make system troubleshooting and administration 
> >> harder,
> >> esp. if the system has connectivity issues.
> >> 
> >> If something critical breaks, I can boot to recovery and look at the logs
> >> and changelogs of recently updated packages. Having recent-ish changelogs 
> >> on
> >> the disk arguably accelerates the fixing process.
> > I don't think removing recent-ish changelogs from the disk is proposed
> > here.
> 
> Again, I may have misread, then. Because what I understood is
> 
> Trim changelogs:
> 1. Convert them to metadata
> 2. Ship untrimmed part in package DB
> 3. Get remaining part from network
> 
> Effectively eliminating /usr/share/doc/*changelog* files.
Even this isn't "making them online only".

-- 
WBR, wRAR


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Presenting DPKG_ROOT

2022-09-11 Thread Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues
Hi,

in 2016 we filed our first DPKG_ROOT patch #824594 against base-files. The dpkg
version at the time just had included support for the DPKG_ROOT variable being
set for maintainer scripts and we were excited to try out this new feature for
creating foreign architecture chroots. At the time we thought that no
discussion on d-devel was necessary before filing the bug because we knew only
10 source packages had to add DPKG_ROOT to their maintainer scripts and because
doing so would not affect any normal installation.

In hindsight, this was a mistake. We should've brought it up on d-devel and
explained our idea first before starting to file our bugs with patches. Luckily
in this very first bug, Santiago pushed back and requested to first see that
our concept really works before applying anything. This was excellent advice
and resulted in a CI job on salsa that regularly checks that Debian unstable
with our patches produces bit-by-bit identical chroots created with DPKG_ROOT
compared to chroots created the normal way. This proof of our method working
exactly as intended convinced Santiago and probably many other maintainers that
applied our patches to their source packages.

Today, six years later, all but two of our patches have been applied. The
transition is nearly complete.

So why are we (Helmut and me) writing you now that things are already done?

Firstly to apologize for having misjudged the situation in the past years. We
should've communicated DPKG_ROOT to all of d-devel at the very beginning to
allow for project wide discussion but decided not to do so. For that mistake we
are sorry.

Secondly, while we of course are hoping for a blessing of our contributions in
hindsight, we wanted to ask whether we maybe missed anything that makes our
DPKG_ROOT approach inferior to other ways to solve this problem. We also wanted
to ask about the scope of DPKG_ROOT. So what exactly is the problem we are
trying to solve?

In the very early days of a new architecture, emulation support is either not
available at all or too buggy to be useful for any practical purposes.  After
having cross-built the initial package set, these packages need to be installed
to create a chroot that can then be used to continue building packages natively
on the new architecture, completing the early bootstrap process. But creating
that chroot requires package maintainer scripts to be run but we cannot emulate
the new architecture to run any of its binaries. So how was this done in the
past? By performing the tasks that are usually carried out by package
maintainer scripts manually. We wanted to find a way that would allow for an
automatic creation of a foreign architecture chroot without being able to run
any of the binaries in it.

To solve this problem, since dpkg 1.18.10 (old-old-stable) the variable
`DPKG_ROOT` is set to the empty string in all maintainer script invocations.
All, except when dpkg is run with `--force-script-chrootless` and `--root` set
to a chroot directory path which will be stored in the `DPKG_ROOT` environment
variable. This is a “force” option because if set, dpkg will not do a chroot
call into the new chroot before calling the maintainer script, thus causing
undesired changes in the outer system instead. By installing packages in a way
that avoids the chroot call, maintainer scripts will run the tools from outside
the chroot instead of the foreign architecture tools inside the chroot.  These
tools need to know where they need to operate on and they use the value of the
`DPKG_ROOT` variable to get this information.

As of today, tools like dpkg-divert, dpkg-maintscript-helper,
deb-systemd-helper, or update-shells understand the `DPKG_ROOT` variable and
will do the right thing.  Maintainer script snippets as they are generated by
debhelper also already respect `DPKG_ROOT`. Where we need package-specific
patches is when maintainer scripts call general purpose tools like mv, cp,
chown or chmod, where it doesn’t make sense to let them support `DPKG_ROOT`
because those tools are not limited to be used in maintainer scripts. Source
packages in the Essential:yes and build-essential set that require changes
involving the `DPKG_ROOT` variable in their maintainer scripts are:

base-files, base-passwd, coreutils, dash, debianutils, dpkg, gcc-defaults,
glibc, pam, shadow

Usually, patches look like this:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?att=1;bug=983565;filename=coreutils_8.32-4.1.debdiff;msg=5

So if before the maintainer script ran `rm /usr/bin/touch` then it now runs `rm
"$DPKG_ROOT/usr/bin/touch"`. Since the `DPKG_ROOT` variable is usually empty,
this change will be a NO-OP in normal installations and only affects setups
that explicitly called dpkg in the way described above. Another way to support
`DPKG_ROOT` is to remove maintainer scripts altogether and replace them by
declarative methods, which was done in case of the transition from add-shell
and remove-shell to update-shells:
https://lists.debian.o

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

2022-09-11 Thread Hakan Bayındır
Hi Andrey,

> On 6 Sep 2022, at 12:42, Andrey Rahmatullin  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
>> While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some
>> reservations against treating changelogs as metadata.
>> 
>> Current changelogs as files have a well known place, can be used by anything
>> and everything, and they are local.
> Assuming you are talking about making changelogs available at a dpkg
> command, as in the RPM world, it's actually making the way to get a
> package changelog more well-known, not less.

If this created the opposite effect in RPM world w.r.t. my theory, then I stand 
corrected.

> 
>> Stuffing them behind a command, possibly making them online only in the
>> process will arguably make system troubleshooting and administration harder,
>> esp. if the system has connectivity issues.
>> 
>> If something critical breaks, I can boot to recovery and look at the logs
>> and changelogs of recently updated packages. Having recent-ish changelogs on
>> the disk arguably accelerates the fixing process.
> I don't think removing recent-ish changelogs from the disk is proposed
> here.

Again, I may have misread, then. Because what I understood is

Trim changelogs:
1. Convert them to metadata
2. Ship untrimmed part in package DB
3. Get remaining part from network

Effectively eliminating /usr/share/doc/*changelog* files.

Thanks for clarifying both,

Cheers,

H.

> -- 
> WBR, wRAR



please coordinate using ITP bugreports

2022-09-11 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Hi all fellow Debian developers,

Duplicated work is silly and learning you've done it feels frustrating,
so let's try avoid that by a) communicating when initiating a work and
b) checking first if others have already begun same work.

For Debian packages, we have since long established a method to
coordinate this called "intent-to-package" bugreports, or ITPs.  Please
file an ITP when you prepare a new package, and before you do please
check first that there is not already an ITP for that same package.

Purpose of ITPs is not to "claim ownership", but an invitation to
coordinate efforts.  It is only an invitation, however, and requires
followup to work as intended: Please be respectful to your peers by
checking for ITPs before (initiating and) uploading new packages into
Debian.

You might work in a team that does things differently - maybe hint about
new efforts in our wiki or on salsa or on a team-specific mailinglist.
Please have in mind, however, that Debian is larger than your team, and
whatever you choose to do internally within a team is in *addition* to
how we generally collaborate in Debian as a whole.  Debian uses Debbugs
as bugtracker, and within that uses ITPs to coordinate new packages.

Concretely this post was triggered by stumbling upon "rust-rmp" package
in NEW queue last night, after working on that package myself as
announced in bug#1014339.  My point here is the general usefulness of
ITPs, however.

This affects Rust team internal procedures but concerns Debian as a
whole, so please reply to debian-devel@l.d.o
(headers added accordingly).


Kind regards,

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

signature.asc
Description: signature