Re: Package uploads silently discarded: how to investigate?

[Ben Finney]

Andrey Rahmatullin  writes:

> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 09:02:30AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> > In this thread I want to discover: How can I find out what's
> > happening and why the Debian archive is no longer sending me any
> > email messages about my package uploads?

> You should check usper.debian.org:/srv/upload.debian.org/queued/run/log

Thank you, that has the information I need, and now I successfully
diagnosed what was wrong with a couple of uploads.

As to how someone can know this in future:

"IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)"  writes:

> as i've wondered myself about this in the past (not for some time
> though, since i no longer update my keys just-in-time): would it be 
> possible to list reasons for (silent) discards on a prominent page?
> (e.g. somewhere on https://ftp-master.d.o¹).

Yes, please. I think your suggestions are a good starting point.

-- 
 \ “Airports are ugly. Some are very ugly. Some attain a degree of |
  `\ugliness that can only be the result of a special effort.” |
_o__)   —Douglas Adams, _The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul_, 1988 |
Ben Finney

Re: Package uploads silently discarded: how to investigate?

[Ben Finney]

Russ Allbery  writes:

> Ben Finney  writes:
>
> > The trouble is, I can only guess, because there are no messages from
> > anything in the Debian archive telling me what went wrong.
>
> My recollection is that if the signature on the upload is invalid, we
> intentionally delete the upload with no notice (because we have no
> confirmed knowledge of who to notify).

So, the question remains: How can I, the person responsible for
uploading this to the queue, find out (not guess based on absence of any
message) what the error was that caused the submission to fail?

-- 
 \ “Our urge to trust our senses overpowers what our measuring |
  `\ devices tell us about the actual nature of reality.” —Ann |
_o__)       Druyan, _Cosmos_, 2014 |
Ben Finney

Package uploads silently discarded: how to investigate?

[Ben Finney]

Howdy all,

For many weeks, my package uploads have been silently discarded. I have
some guesses as to why but I can't find any concrete report saying so.

Typically I'll receive an email message to my maintainer email address
saying the package is being processed, and later a message saying it's
succeeded or failed.

By “silently discarded”, I mean that an upload of a package – whether
source package or binary package, and whether using ‘dput’ or FTP
commands directly – succeeds, then soon afterward the files no longer
appear in the ‘/pub/UploadQueue/’ directory; then there is no further
communication from the Debian archive infrastructure.

My guess is that this is something to do with an update to the signing
GnuPG key expiry date. I can get into that in a different thread if
needed. The trouble is, I can only guess, because there are no messages
from anything in the Debian archive telling me what went wrong.

In this thread I want to discover: How can I find out what's happening
and why the Debian archive is no longer sending me any email messages
about my package uploads?

-- 
 \ “The enjoyment of one's tools is an essential ingredient of |
  `\ successful work.” —Donald Knuth, _The Art of Computer |
_o__) Programming_ |
Ben Finney

Re: Project to improve Debian support model

[Ben Finney]

Howdy Katy,

Katy Tolsen <2ndlifek...@gmail.com> writes:

> I've started a project with the aim to improve Debian's support
> model
> […]

I see that in the intervening time, the project repository has moved
away from GitHub (thank you!) and to this URL:

https://git.fosscommunity.in/kathryntolsen/diss/>

> For consideration of our developers, I ask for your input on this
> matter […]

The wiki content there has an overview of the intended architecture.

Core Components of the Debian Integrated Software System

* DISS Bot
* DISS Chat Client
* DISS Client
* DISS Diagnostic Trees
* DISS Tracker

https://git.fosscommunity.in/kathryntolsen/diss/-/wikis/home>

As you state on the wiki, many of those pages are without content. To
help get an informal idea, can you describe briefly each of those
components?

-- 
 \“Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be |
  `\  over here, looking through your stuff.” —Jack Handey |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Project to improve Debian support model

[Ben Finney]

Howdy Katy,

Katy Tolsen <2ndlifek...@gmail.com> writes:

> I've started a project with the aim to improve Debian's support model
> […]

I see that in the intervening time, the project repository has moved
away from GitHub (thank you!) and to this URL:

https://git.fosscommunity.in/kathryntolsen/diss/>

> For consideration of our developers, I ask for your input on this
> matter […]

The wiki content there has an overview of the intended architecture.

Core Components of the Debian Integrated Software System

* DISS Bot
* DISS Chat Client
* DISS Client
* DISS Diagnostic Trees
* DISS Tracker

https://git.fosscommunity.in/kathryntolsen/diss/-/wikis/home>

As you state on the wiki, many of those pages are without content. To
help get an informal idea, can you describe briefly each of those
components?

-- 
 \ “Teach a man to make fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a |
  `\   man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.” |
_o__)     —John A. Hrastar |
Ben Finney

Accepted pysha3 1.0.2-4 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

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Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:43:49 +1100
Source: pysha3
Architecture: source
Version: 1.0.2-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 937534
Changes:
 pysha3 (1.0.2-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility using ‘debhelper-compat’ dependency.
   * Remove obsolete dependency on ‘python-setuptools’.
 Closes: bug#937534. Thanks to Sandro Tosi for the follow-up notice.
   * Specify the package build system does not require root privilege.
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Accepted python-irc 8.5.3+dfsg-5 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 00:47:15 +1100
Source: python-irc
Architecture: source
Version: 8.5.3+dfsg-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 937845 948421
Changes:
 python-irc (8.5.3+dfsg-5) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Hiroshi Tanaka” release.
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * Use current HTTPS URL for copyright format declaration.
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Remove redundant dependency on ‘debhelper’.
 The ‘debhelper-compat’ dependency brings the correct packages.
   * Update copyright years for Debian packaging work.
   * Release Debian packaging work under terms of GPLv3.
   * Update copyright years for upstream work.
   * Update URL for homepage of upstream project.
   * Update VCS URLs for Debian packaging.
   * Describe current source package management in ‘README.source’.
   * Update years of publication in Debian package copyright notices.
   * Record upstream metadata in a DEP-12 format document.
   * Don't build the Python 2 binary package.
 Closes: bug#937845.
   * Remove Python 2 build dependencies.
   * Update patch for removal of ‘hgtools’ support.
   * Add patch to correct obsolete name for tool configuration section.
 Closes: bug#948421.
   * Move Git-BuildPackage specific option to its configuration file.
   * Specify the current compression for the upstream source tarball.
   * debian/source/options:
 * Remove empty configuration file.
   * Specify the package build system does not require root privilege.
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Remove specification of minimum Python versions.
 These are now satisfied by all currently supported Debian releases.
   * Use HTTPS URL for PyPI redirector.
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Accepted python-tinyrpc 0.6-3 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:15:37 +1100
Source: python-tinyrpc
Architecture: source
Version: 0.6-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 945285
Changes:
 python-tinyrpc (0.6-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Remove obsolete smoke test program for Python 2.
 Closes: bug#945285. Thanks to Matthias Klose for the report.
   * Correct executable mode for smoke test program for Python 3.
   * Tell DebHelper where to insert Sphinx binary dependencies.
   * Specify the package build system does not require root privilege.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.5.2+dfsg.1-4 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 10:20:28 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Architecture: source
Version: 4.5.2+dfsg.1-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: high
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5.2+dfsg.1-4) unstable; urgency=high
 .
   * Urgency “high” to restore dependency for other Python 2 packages.
 See bug#937665 discussion.
   * Build Python 2 and PyPy 2 binary packages.
 These still have reverse dependencies, during the Python 2 removal.
   * Exercise Python 2 and PyPy 2 packages in autopkgtest.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.5.2+dfsg.1-3 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 11:10:34 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Architecture: source
Version: 4.5.2+dfsg.1-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 944076
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5.2+dfsg.1-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Specify the package build system does not require root privilege.
   * Specify that the documentation must be built to autopkgtest it.
   * Update the expected directory where documentation is installed.
 Closes: bug#944076.
 Thanks to Paul Gevers for the report and trouble-shooting.
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Accepted gandi-cli 1.5-1 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:31:00 +1100
Source: gandi-cli
Architecture: source
Version: 1.5-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 923084
Changes:
 gandi-cli (1.5-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Hideki Hashimoto” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Bug fixes for argument parsing to some sub-commands.
   * debian/rules:
 * Correctly specify the Python build output directory for ‘dh_python3’
   to read. Thanks to Unit 193 for the description and solution.
   Closes: bug#923084.
   * debian/control:
 * Remove redundant enumeration of dependency Python packages.
 * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
 * Remove redundant dependency on ‘debhelper’.
   The ‘debhelper-compat’ dependency brings in the required package.
 * Specify the package build system does not require root privilege.
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Accepted python-daemon 2.2.4-1 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 10:16:51 +1100
Source: python-daemon
Architecture: source
Version: 2.2.4-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 937684
Changes:
 python-daemon (2.2.4-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Doris Rivett” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Improve speed to close open file descriptors, in conditions where
   maximum file descriptors is large.
 * Catch some error conditions creating the socket.
   * Update build dependencies to allow for Twine.
   * Specify commands to run the upstream test suite.
   * Remove redundant dependency on ‘debhelper’.
 The ‘debhelper-compat’ dependency brings the correct packages.
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
   * Remove the autopkgtest for Python 2 binary package.
   * Don't build the Python 2 binary package.
 Closes: bug#937684.
   * Remove Python 2 build dependencies.
   * Specify the package build system does not require root privilege.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.5.2+dfsg.1-2 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 13:57:10 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Architecture: source
Version: 4.5.2+dfsg.1-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 937665
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5.2+dfsg.1-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
 No additional changes required.
   * Remove declaration of minimum Python 2 versions.
 These are now satisfied by all currently supported Debian releases.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Don't build Python 2 or PyPy 2 binary packages.
 Closes: bug#937665.
   * Remove Python 2 and PyPy 2 autopkgtest code.
   * Remove build dependencies for Python environments not supported.
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Build docs with Sphinx by using system Python.
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Accepted pyethash 0.1.27-2 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 10:47:27 +1100
Source: pyethash
Architecture: source
Version: 0.1.27-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 937432
Changes:
 pyethash (0.1.27-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during ‘Git-BuildPackage’.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Remove obsolete control field for Python 2 version.
   * Remove declaration for minimum Python 3 version.
 Python >= 3.4 is now in all supported Debian releases.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Specify VCS URLs for current Debian package VCS hosting.
   * Record upstream metadata in DEP-12 document.
 .
   [ Sandro Tosi ]
   * Remove autopkgtest smoke test for Python 2.
   * Don't build Python 2 binary packages.
   * Remove support for Python 2.
 Closes: bug#937432.
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Accepted python-jsonext 0.4.2-1 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 12:25:12 +1100
Source: python-jsonext
Architecture: source
Version: 0.4.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 937855
Changes:
 python-jsonext (0.4.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * New upstream version.
 Now includes user documentation.
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
   * Specify HTTPS URL for upstream source repository.
   * Improve consistency of copyright grant in Debian packaging.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during ‘Git-BuildPackage’.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Update copyright years for Debian packaging.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Remove ‘debian/patches/migrate-from-times-to-arrow.patch’, now applied
 upstream.
   * Remove obsolete control field for Python 2 version.
   * Remove declaration for minimum Python 3 version.
 Python >= 3.4 is now in all supported Debian releases.
   * Record upstream metadata in DEP-12 document.
 .
   [ Sandro Tosi ]
   * Remove autopkgtest smoke test for Python 2.
   * Don't build Python 2 binary packages.
   * Remove support for Python 2.
 Closes: bug#937855.
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Accepted editorconfig-core-py 0.12.2-2 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:03:13 +1100
Source: editorconfig-core-py
Architecture: source
Version: 0.12.2-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 936468
Changes:
 editorconfig-core-py (0.12.2-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
   * Remove redundant dependency on ‘debhelper’.
 The ‘debhelper-compat’ dependency brings in the required package.
 .
   [ Sandro Tosi ]
   * Remove autopkgtest smoke test for Python 2.
   * Don't build Python 2 binary packages.
   * Remove support for Python 2.
 Closes: bug#936468.
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Accepted python-tinyrpc 0.6-2 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 10:33:45 +1100
Source: python-tinyrpc
Architecture: source
Version: 0.6-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 938218
Changes:
 python-tinyrpc (0.6-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
 .
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Specify VCS URLs for current Debian package VCS hosting.
   * Remove obsolete control field for Python 2 version.
   * Remove declaration for minimum Python 3 version.
 Python >= 3.4 is now in all supported Debian releases.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Record upstream metadata in DEP-12 document.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during ‘Git-BuildPackage’.
 .
   [ Sandro Tosi ]
 .
   * Remove support for Python 2.
 Closes: bug#938218.
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Accepted pysha3 1.0.2-3 (source) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 22:48:30 +1100
Source: pysha3
Architecture: source
Version: 1.0.2-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Closes: 937534
Changes:
 pysha3 (1.0.2-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
 .
   * Upload to “unstable”.
   * Declare conformance to “Standards-Version: 4.4.1”.
   * Specify VCS URLs for current Debian package VCS hosting.
   * Specify HTTPS URL for copyright format.
   * Grant license in Debian package under condition of GPL-3+.
   * Separate architecture-dependent build dependencies to
 “Build-Depends-Arch”.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during ‘Git-BuildPackage’.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Record upstream metadata in DEP-12 document.
   * Remove obsolete control field for Python 2 version.
   * Remove declaration for minimum Python 3 version.
 Python >= 3.4 is now in all supported Debian releases.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
 .
   [ Sandro Tosi ]
 .
   * Remove support for Python 2.
 Closes: bug#937534.
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Re: Survey results: git packaging practices / repository format

[Ben Finney]

Sean Whitton  writes:

> I don't think the comment about quilt is unreasonable, because it seems
> like you've just been lucky in not having to use quilt, or similar, yet.
> "Never having a Debian delta" would seem to be a property of packages,
> not workflows.

There's some conflation here between “never had a need for additional
tools like Quilt” with “never needing a Debian packaging delta”.

I've never needed the former, and always needed the latter. I don't
think the latter at all implies the former.

-- 
 \  “People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of |
  `\   thought which they avoid.” —Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813–1855) |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: Survey results: git packaging practices / repository format

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> What should another Debian contributor do, who wants to make a change
> to the upstream source, but wants to do so in your own git workflow
> and collaborate via your git branch, rather than by uploading a .dsc ?

I'm increasingly baffled here. Why does anyone need anything but the
existing VCS tools (to work with upstream's VCS) and the DEP-3 patch
format (to represent the changes in Debian packaging) for this?

> I think they would need to use quilt[1].

Are we talking here about the “3.0 (quilt)” package source format? I
don't consider that “using Quilt” because no maintainer of the package
needs to even know what Quilt is, let alone use it, for that format to
work.

If someone finds Quilt makes the job easier, more power to them; but I
don't see it as any kind of requirement in the workflow. Not even
noteworthy in discussing the packaging workflow.

> So that explains why your branch format is listed in that table as
> requiring quilt.

Unless there's something I'm missing here, I think that's just a false
statement.

-- 
 \  “I have a large seashell collection, which I keep scattered on |
  `\the beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen it.” —Steven |
_o__)       Wright |
Ben Finney

Re: Survey results: git packaging practices / repository format

[Ben Finney]

Russ Allbery  writes:

> Ben Finney  writes:
>
> > It may be “bare debian” is meant to cover this; but I don't
> > recognise the comment “requires use of quilt and similar tools”
> > because I've never needed to use Quilt for this.
>
> How do you handle needed changes to the upstream source?

* Use whatever VCS is published by upstream, to implement the change.

* Preferably do this in a local fork, because:

  * Rebase the branch as necessary while the change is not yet merged
upstream.

* Export that change as a series of patches.

* Those patches become DEP-3 files in ‘debian/patches/’ of the Debian
  package.

So the VCS tools themselves, and the DEP-3 format, completely (?)
obviate the need for any human to touch Quilt.

> Or do you just never make any changes to the upstream source?

We are rarely that lucky! Changes to upstream are very often needed.
That's a good reason to maintain a local clone of the upstream VCS
repository.

And with a good Distributed VCS (like Git) resolving divergent upstream
development while you wait for them to (if ever) accept the changes
upstream, patches are relatively easy to keep clean.

-- 
 \ “Oh, I realize it's a penny here and a penny there, but look at |
  `\  me: I've worked myself up from nothing to a state of extreme |
_o__)          poverty.” —Groucho Marx |
Ben Finney

Re: dgit advocacy again (Re: Survey results: git packaging practices / repository format)

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> I have said before that I think using "dgit push" (where possible) is
> an ethical imperative.  (I should clarify that I *don't* mean that
> people who aren't using "dgit push" yet are bad people.  Life is so
> full of ethical imperatives that no real human could meet them all,
> and of course Debian's right to call on volunteer effort is limited.)

Perhaps “ethical imperative” isn't what you mean, then? I understand an
ethical imperative to be instruction demanded ethically (e.g. “don't
trade people as property”). If one fails to dobey an ethical imperative,
one *is* necessarily a bad person.

Certainly I hope you don't consider that anyone who chooses not to use
‘dgit’ is thereby an ethical villain; and so I hope you'll avoid the
term “ethical imperative” for your instruction there.

Your meaning seems better expressed by an “ethical virtue”; some
instruction (e.g. “donate time at a homeless shelter”) which when a
person follows it makes that person praiseworthy, but which we do not
condemn every person who fails to follow it.

-- 
 \  “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O |
  `\   Lord, make my enemies ridiculous!’ And God granted it.” |
_o__)        —Voltaire |
Ben Finney

Re: Survey results: git packaging practices / repository format

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> Please let us know if we have missed one.  It is probably better if
> you ask us rather than just adding it, unless you're sure that what
> you are adding isn't the same as one of the existing ones.  In
> particular it seems that "unapplied" is used by a large number of
> people with disjoint tooling and disjoint terminology.

I don't recognise the repository structure that was raised by myself and
some others: A VCS repository that contains only the Debian packaging
files, which at build time is then exported to a non-VCS working tree
and moerged with the upstream source.

It may be “bare debian” is meant to cover this; but I don't recognise
the comment “requires use of quilt and similar tools” because I've never
needed to use Quilt for this.

> I hope you all won't mind too much that Sean and I have privileged our
> own point of view, in the columns which contain value judgements, and
> that we hope to retain that property of the page.

The page admonishes that we not edit ithe “value judgement” fields; but
the same page offers no clear alternative forum to achieve changes there.

-- 
 \“If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let |
  `\ 'em go, because, man, they're gone.” —Jack Handey |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: Survey: git packaging practices / repository format

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> Can you please look through the table below and see if I have covered
> everything you do ?

You have covered the workflows I set up where I have the choice. Thanks.

-- 
 \   “I am amazed, O Wall, that you have not collapsed and fallen, |
  `\since you must bear the tedious stupidities of so many |
_o__)  scrawlers.” —anonymous graffiti, Pompeii, 79 CE |
Ben Finney

Re: Difficult Packaging Practices

[Ben Finney]

Sam Hartman  writes:

> If you just want to get upstream's idea of their package onto a system
> with their release schedule and their recommended dependency versions,
> there are better ways than getting a package into Debian.

In the Debian mentors forum (that is, the chat channel, the mailing
list, etc.) we make a point of saying: that's fine!

Not every package needs to be in Debian, for its users to install that
package. Someone who wants what you describe above can learn how to make
a Debian package that will only be side-loaded from that community's own
repository, or whatever.

Perhaps that needs to be stated louder or more consistently?

-- 
 \   “Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is |
  `\ obliged to stick to possibilities, truth isn't.” —Mark Twain, |
_o__)  _Following the Equator_ |
Ben Finney

Re: dgit FAQ

[Ben Finney]

Sean Whitton  writes:

> This now exists: https://wiki.debian.org/DgitFAQ

Thank you.

One issue I noticed:

git-buildpackage and git-dpm users are fully supported […]

That seems to contradict earlier statements that “separate
Debian-packaging-only repository” workflow (which is supported by
Git-BuildPackage) is currently not supported by DGit.

Is the DGit FAQ wrong on that point?

-- 
 \ “Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “I think so, |
  `\ Brain, but if they called them ‘Sad Meals’, kids wouldn't buy |
_o__)them!” —_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney

Re: Preferred git branch structure when upstream moves from tarballs to git

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> So far I have gained the impression that the kind of people who are
> using packaging-only git trees tend to be very conservative, and very
> comfortable with .dsc/tarball/patch/quilt based tools, and not really
> convinced of the usefulness of git.

Let me counter that impression, then: I am well convinced of the
usefulness of Git, both generally and for Debian packaging in
particular. I use it every day for all manner of development work.

What I remain unconvinced of is the worth of abandoning the clean
separation between an upstream source repository (whether Git repository
or not) and a VCS repository for Debian packaging (typically in Git).

The worth of such a clean separation is that it does not run afoul of
the often wide differences between upstream developer team workflow
and Debian package maintainer team workflow.

So it's not conservatism or unwillingness to learn, in my case at least.
I don't see that there's sufficient benefit to be had trying to weld
their work together into one Git repository, when we have existing tools
and workflows that don't demand that conflation.

I believe I've made an informed assessment of the benefits and costs of
a combined-upstream-with-Debian-packaging single VCS repository, and
tentatively rejected it. That choice is not irrevocable and I could be
convinced by sufficient benefit, but AFAICT the costs remain what they
are.

> I have even experienced what feels to me like significant hostility.

Yes, I've seen that at times. I'm sure you get more that I haven't seen.
It's sad to see when it happens.

> If I am wrong and there are more users to be had by implementing this
> feature then I will definitely consider giving it a higher priority.

I'll try to find time to respond on the bug report you cited.

> BTW, dgit is capitalised thus.

Can't promise I'll remember that; as with DPut, it's easier to see the
portmanteau term with distinct capitalisation, in my opinion.

-- 
 \  “Advertising is the price companies pay for being unoriginal.” |
  `\—Yves Béhar, _New York Times_ interview 2010-12-30 |
_o__)      |
Ben Finney

Re: Preferred git branch structure when upstream moves from tarballs to git

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> […] I have not taught dgit how to convert [separate Debian
> packaging-only repository and upstream source repository] into a git
> tree that contains the [combined] source code.

One interpretation of “convert [separate repositories] into [one Git
tree]” is that it's a flag-day, point of no return conversion that
precludes the separate-Debian-packaging-repository workflow from that
point forward. If so, that wouldn't be enough to convince me to use
DGit, because I consider the separate-Debian-packaging-repository
workflow superior for many cases.

Contrariwise, on the assumption we are instead talking about a
“conversion to a Git tree” that would seamlessly let DGit support the
ongoing workflow of Debian packaging in a repository separate from any
upstream code:

> That feature would be the wishlist bug
>   #903392 "want support for packaging-only maintainer views"
> which I've already mentioned once in this thread, where I explained
> why implementing it is a low priority.

While acknowledging you are under no obligation to implement features
demanded by others, I'll point out that for as long as DGit lacks
support for that workflow, you won't get much user feedback from people
whose Debian packages need that workflow and therefore are not
knowledgeable DGit users.

So for as long as that persists, it will take special consious effort to
remember that there's a class of Debian package maintainers who would
like to become knowledgeable about DGit but can't yet; that the current
DGit user base is not representative of that class of potential user.

I trust you already know this, but it bears explicit expression from
time to time :-)

-- 
 \ “Our task must be to free ourselves from our prison by widening |
  `\our circle of compassion to embrace all humanity and the whole |
_o__)   of nature in its beauty.” —Albert Einstein |
Ben Finney

Re: Preferred git branch structure when upstream moves from tarballs to git

[Ben Finney]

Sean Whitton  writes:

> Hello,
>
> On Tue 30 Apr 2019 at 08:05AM +02, Ansgar wrote:
>
> > As an example: to update to a new upstream release, I ideally just
> > have to drop the new upstream tarball, update d/changelog and am
> > done.
>
> As a package maintainer, if you don't keep the whole source package in
> git, you're giving up on a lot of the power of git.

I can't speak for Ansgar, but “you don't keep the whole source package
in Git” is not implied by keeping Debian packaging separate. It's not
accurate to the workflow, at least as I described (I don't know Ansgar's
case, but nothing he described implies that either).

Rather, I keep the Debian packaging source separate from the upstream
source. That doesn't preclude Git access to the upstream source, and I
frequently use a Git repository cloned from upstream for that.

So, the Debian-packaging-in-a-separate-repository does not give up any
of the power of Git.

> The most significant thing is that you cannot manipulate quilt patches
> as commits on a branch. It is also much more involved to cherry pick
> commits from upstream branches, and quickly obtain diffs between
> Debian's version of the code and arbitrary other branches, to mention
> a few other things.

The full power of Git is available when I manipulate upstream source to
refresh my Debian patches. Indeed, it's even neater to refresh those
patches by going straight from the only-upstream-source repository.

> I also think that you're doing a disservice to downstream users. If
> you're trying to fix a bug in the packaged version of some software on
> your computer, you don't care about the distinction between Debian's
> packaging scripts and the upstream code. It's all going to be turned
> into a .deb once you've fixed your problem. You want the history of
> the whole thing. Thus, a git history that contains both the upstream
> git history and the Debian maintainer's changes to the packaging
> scripts is going to be very useful. A git history of only the Debian
> packaging scripts is much less useful.

Conversely, I think it does a disservice to downstream users to mix in
Debian packaging changes with upstream changes. The separation is useful
and much easier to maintain when the repositories are separate.

-- 
 \ “Time is the great legalizer, even in the field of morals.” |
  `\ —Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: Preferred git branch structure when upstream moves from tarballs to git

[Ben Finney]

Gard Spreemann  writes:

> Recently, upstream has finally started using git. What is the
> recommended way for me to maintain a sane branch structure for the
> packaging repository while starting to use upstream's git master as
> the upstream branch to follow?

My opinionated recommendation: Track the Debian packaging in a separate
repository (which contains only the ‘debian/’ directory tree). When it's
time to build the Debian source package for testing, export the upstream
source to a temporary build directory and export the Debian packaging
onto that. Build the Debian source package from the result.

(Of course, Git-BuildPackage supports this workflow, with the ‘--export’
and related options.)

Insulation from the kind of changes in upstream publishing that you
describe, is a significant advantage of this Debian packaging workflow.

-- 
 \ “My girlfriend has a queen sized bed; I have a court jester |
  `\   sized bed. It's red and green and has bells on it, and the ends |
_o__) curl up.” —Steven Wright |
Ben Finney

Bug#927454: ITP: towncrier -- compiler for project news file

[Ben Finney]

Package: wnpp
Owner: Ben Finney 
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: towncrier
  Version : 19.2.0
  Upstream Author : Amber Brown  and Contributors
* URL or Web page : https://pypi.org/project/towncrier/
* License : Expat
  Description : compiler for project news file
  Towncrier is a utility to produce useful, summarised news files for your
  project. Rather than reading the VCS history as some newer tools do, or 
having
  one single file which developers all write to, towncrier reads “news 
fragments”
  which contain information *useful to end users*.
  .
  towncrier delivers the news which is convenient to those that hear it, not
  those that write it.
  .
  That is, a “news fragment” (a small file containing just enough 
information to
  be useful to end users) can be written that summarises what has changed 
from
  the “developer log” (which may contain complex information about the 
original
  issue, how it was fixed, who authored the fix, and who reviewed the fix). 
By
  compiling a collection of these fragments, towncrier can produce a digest 
of
  the changes which is valuable to those who may wish to use the software.

-- 
 \  “Often, the surest way to convey misinformation is to tell the |
  `\   strict truth.” —Mark Twain, _Following the Equator_ |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Bug#927453: ITP: towncrier -- compiler for project news file

[Ben Finney]

Package: wnpp
Owner: Ben Finney 
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: towncrier
  Version : 19.2.0
  Upstream Author : Amber Brown  and Contributors
* URL or Web page : https://pypi.org/project/towncrier/
* License : Expat
  Description : compiler for project news file
  Towncrier is a utility to produce useful, summarised news files for your
  project. Rather than reading the VCS history as some newer tools do, or 
having
  one single file which developers all write to, towncrier reads “news 
fragments”
  which contain information *useful to end users*.
  .
  towncrier delivers the news which is convenient to those that hear it, not
  those that write it.
  .
  That is, a “news fragment” (a small file containing just enough 
information to
  be useful to end users) can be written that summarises what has changed 
from
  the “developer log” (which may contain complex information about the 
original
  issue, how it was fixed, who authored the fix, and who reviewed the fix). 
By
  compiling a collection of these fragments, towncrier can produce a digest 
of
  the changes which is valuable to those who may wish to use the software.

-- 
 \  “Often, the surest way to convey misinformation is to tell the |
  `\   strict truth.” —Mark Twain, _Following the Equator_ |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney 

Re: [Idea] Debian User Repository? (Not simply mimicing AUR)

[Ben Finney]

Vincent Bernat  writes:

>  ❦  8 avril 2019 14:46 +10, Ben Finney :
>
> >> yes, it can be done, but it is a lot more work for individual
> >> packagers.
> >
> > Sure. And, on the other hand, providing an APT repository for arbitrary
> > packages of unknown copyright status is also a lot of work to expect
> > disinterested volunteers to do without motivation.
>
> Disinterested volunteers are never forced to work for Debian.

Yes, that's why I said “expect” and not “force”.

> What is the point of being so negative?

Not sure who you're addressing here, and I'm sorry if the discussion
appears negative to you.

-- 
 \  “When I get real bored, I like to drive downtown and get a |
  `\ great parking spot, then sit in my car and count how many |
_o__)        people ask me if I'm leaving.” —Steven Wright |
Ben Finney

Re: [Idea] Debian User Repository? (Not simply mimicing AUR)

[Ben Finney]

Ben Finney  writes:

> Peter Silva  writes:
>
> > With debian, it's kind of all or nothing. Etiher you're in Debian,
> > and it gets built on every platform using the build farm, or it's
> > not, so you get no help at all.
>
> That doesn't seem accurate. Have people tried setting up an APT
> repository and got “no help at all”? Does the maintenance of the
> packages to run an APT repository, and instructions on how to do it, not
> count as help in doing that?

As for the build farm: the parties who donate those to Debian did so on
the understanding that they took on the load of building only the
official Debian archive. Opening the gates to even unofficial Debian
packages would be a significant increase in that burden on many of those
donated machines.

I think it's good to keep the distinction between official Debian
archive (which is built on the official Debian build farm) versus
unofficial packages (which need someone else with their own reasons to
donate resources to build them).

-- 
 \   “The generation of random numbers is too important to be left |
  `\to chance.” —Robert R. Coveyou |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: [Idea] Debian User Repository? (Not simply mimicing AUR)

[Ben Finney]

Peter Silva  writes:

> On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 11:10 PM Ben Finney  wrote:
>
> > If one needs to keep a close eye on changes to make sure they can
> > still be installed even on a years-old OS, the resulting packages
> > can be placed in a custom repository set up with the instructions at
> > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Setup>. What am I
> > missing?

> yes, it can be done, but it is a lot more work for individual
> packagers.

Sure. And, on the other hand, providing an APT repository for arbitrary
packages of unknown copyright status is also a lot of work to expect
disinterested volunteers to do without motivation.

So it sounds like you know of at least enough individual developers that
you have a group motivated to maintain an unofficial APT repository.

That seems like an appropriate model: groups who want to make unofficial
packages available can put in the sys-admin effort to run an unofficial
APT repository with the existing tools.

The Debian project does not (and, I believe, should not) need to be the
home of third-party unofficial repositories; the tools to provide those
are already in the hands of anyone who wants to provide them.

> With debian, it's kind of all or nothing. Etiher you're in Debian, and
> it gets built on every platform using the build farm, or it's not, so
> you get no help at all.

That doesn't seem accurate. Have people tried setting up an APT
repository and got “no help at all”? Does the maintenance of the
packages to run an APT repository, and instructions on how to do it, not
count as help in doing that?

> Launchpad gives a nice middle road that suits us right now,
> and if something similar were available for debian, it would provide a
> stepping stone to being in Debian proper.

Conversely, I would argue that providing an APT repository for the
unofficial packages they want available is a way for grroups to, on
their own steam, provide that stepping stone.

-- 
 \“Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it |
  `\ correct, not tried it.” —Donald Knuth, 1977-03-29 |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: [Idea] Debian User Repository? (Not simply mimicing AUR)

[Ben Finney]

Peter Silva  writes:

> […] the launchpad.net model, which supports backporting seamlesslly
> and allows to support the same version on all distro versions, works
> better for us. This is something a debian version of launchpad would
> get us.

How does it handle “seamlessly” changes that make a package incompatible
with the already-released Debian stable? If it doesn't handle that, is
it right to call that seamless?

If one needs to keep a close eye on changes to make sure they can still
be installed even on a years-old OS, the resulting packages can be
placed in a custom repository set up with the instructions at
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Setup>. What am I missing?

-- 
 \ “I think Western civilization is more enlightened precisely |
  `\ because we have learned how to ignore our religious leaders.” |
_o__)—Bill Maher, 2003 |
Ben Finney

Re: [Idea] Debian User Repository? (Not simply mimicing AUR)

[Ben Finney]

Peter Silva  writes:

> One thing that dampens our enthusiasm for that at the moment is that
> our packages are still very unstable […], but if it gets baked into
> debian, then we need to support some random old version for many
> years.

By that description it is not a good candidate for putting into Debian
the operating system.

If the upstream project is not going to support specific releases for
years, that puts the onus on Debian package maintainers to choose a
version for support during the lifetime of a Debian release.

So would you agree, then, that the barrier to entry to the Debian system
is appropriate in this case?

-- 
 \  “I don't want to live peacefully with difficult realities, and |
  `\ I see no virtue in savoring excuses for avoiding a search for |
_o__)real answers.” —Paul Z. Myers, 2009-09-12 |
Ben Finney

Accepted gandi-cli 1.4-2 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2019 16:26:36 +1100
Source: gandi-cli
Binary: gandi-cli
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.4-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 gandi-cli  - command-line interface for Gandi service
Changes:
 gandi-cli (1.4-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Unit 193 ]
   * Build package for all Python 3 versions in Debian.
   * Restrict ‘click’ dependencies to match upstream package.
   * Install upstream's script for Bash command completion.
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Accepted editorconfig-core-py 0.12.2-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 21:08:28 +1100
Source: editorconfig-core-py
Binary: python-editorconfig python3-editorconfig
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.12.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 python-editorconfig - library for working with EditorConfig — Python 2
 python3-editorconfig - library for working with EditorConfig — Python 3
Changes:
 editorconfig-core-py (0.12.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Support Python 3 up to 3.6.
 * Clarify aggregate license is PSF license conditions.
   * Update publication years in copyright notices.
   * Update copyright information for upstream license changes.
   * Correct the Git-BuildPackage configuration for this packaging style.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during Git-BuildPackage.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.3.0”. No additional changes required.
   * Record upstream metadata in DEP-12 document.
   * Remove custom Debian source compression option.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Remove specification of minimum Python versions.
 The required versions are now in all supported Debian releases.
   * Use HTTPS URL for PyPI redirector.
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Accepted gandi-cli 1.4-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 14:47:39 +1100
Source: gandi-cli
Binary: gandi-cli
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.4-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 gandi-cli  - command-line interface for Gandi service
Changes:
 gandi-cli (1.4-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Cristian Rossi” release.
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Add support of Python 3.7.
 * Drop support of Python <= 2.6 and Python <= 3.3.
 * Add support of DNSSEC.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.3.0”.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Declare to PyBuild the main Python package name.
   * Remove specification of minimum Python versions.
 The required versions are now in all supported Debian releases.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during ‘Git-BuildPackage’.
   * Update publication years in Debian packaging copyright notices.
   * Refine README.source to describe current packaging source maintenance.
   * Record upstream metadata in DEP-12 document.
   * Specify that build dependencies are architecture-independent.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Migrate Debhelper compatibility level declaration to build
   dependency.
   * Declare binary package dependencies explicitly.
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Remove specification of minimum Python versions.
 The required versions are now in all supported Debian releases.
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Accepted inform6-library 6.12.2+dfsg.1-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 18:52:05 +1100
Source: inform6-library
Binary: inform6-library
Architecture: source all
Version: 6.12.2+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 inform6-library - Inform 6 interactive fiction language — standard library
Closes: 826899
Changes:
 inform6-library (6.12.2+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Humayun Azad” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Project repository moved to GitLab hosting.
 * Numerous bugs fixed.
 Closes: bug#826899.
   * Update copyright information.
   * Update my email address for Debian work.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.3.0”.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Remove special handling for version-specific changelog.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Specify current HTTPS URL for copyright format declaration.
   * Specify current HTTPS URL for upstream source.
   * Specify how to create source package with Debian packaging overlay.
   * Configure UScan to poll current upstream project repository.
   * Record upstream metadata in a DEP-12 format document.
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Accepted dput 1.0.3 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 22:06:32 +1100
Source: dput
Binary: dput
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.0.3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 dput   - Debian package upload tool
Changes:
 dput (1.0.3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “سعد راشد محمد الفقيه‎‎ (Sa'ad Rashed Mohammad al-Faqih)” release.
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * Specify current VCS for this code base.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.3.0”. No additional changes needed.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Update publication years in copyright notices.
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Remove specification of minimum Python versions.
 The required versions are now in all supported Debian releases.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.5.2+dfsg.1-1 (source all amd64) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:58:58 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Binary: pypy-coverage python-coverage python-coverage-dbgsym 
python-coverage-doc python3-coverage python3-coverage-dbgsym
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 4.5.2+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 pypy-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2 PyPy
 python-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2
 python-coverage-doc - code coverage tool for Python — documentation
 python3-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 3
Closes: 915133
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5.2+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “وليد أبوالخير‎‎ (Waleed Sami Abulkhair)” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Upstream development hosting moved.
 * Namespace packages are supported on Python 3.7, where they used to
   cause TypeErrors about path being None.
 * Extend supported Python versions to include Python 3.8.
   * Update publication years for Debian packaging in copyright notices.
   * Update package source documentation for standard packaging tools.
   * debian/repack, debian/source_package_build.bash:
 * Remove unused custom ‘repack’ program.
   * Declare AutoPkgTest dependency on all relevant CPython packages.
 Closes: bug#915133. Thanks to Paul Gevers for the report.
   * Update Lintian override for new Python-version-specific filenames.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.3.0”. No additional changes required.
   * Record upstream metadata in DEP-12 document.
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Accepted python-daemon 2.2.3-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 16:32:55 +1100
Source: python-daemon
Binary: python-daemon python3-daemon
Architecture: source all
Version: 2.2.3-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 python-daemon - library for making a Unix daemon process — Python 2
 python3-daemon - library for making a Unix daemon process — Python 3
Closes: 891543
Changes:
 python-daemon (2.2.3-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ben Finney ]
   * The “Maria Rivoli” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Improve performance of `daemon.close_all_open_files`.
 * Promote the warning for `runner` module to a `DeprecationWarning`.
   This has been an unofficial example module from the beginning, and
   it will be removed in a future version.
   * Refresh patches for upstream changes.
   * Use HTTPS URL for copyright format reference.
   * Update publication years in copyright notices.
   * Correct grant of license in Debian packaging copyright.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.3.0”.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 12.
   * debian/compat:
 * Remove obsolescent configuration file.
   * Change to current VCS URL for Debian packaging source.
   * Update description of source package for current VCS workflow.
   * Update Git-Buildpackage configuration for current VCS workflow.
   * Declare build dependencies specifically for arch-independent build.
   * Patch build system to remove build-only dependency ‘docutils’.
 Closes: bug#891543. Thanks to Benjamin Drung for the report.
   * Use helpful substitutions provided by UScan.
   * Narrow the upstream version mangling pattern.
   * Use UScan specification of upstream release signature URL.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during ‘Git-BuildPackage’.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Override the Pybuild build system detection.
 The presence of a Makefile confuses Pybuild.
   * Declare upstream metadata in DEP-12 format.
   * Change to a minimal export of the public key for upstream.
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Remove specification of minimum Python versions.
 These are now satisfied by all currently supported Debian releases.
   * Use HTTPS URL for Debian mirror of PyPI service.
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python-daemon_2.2.3-1_all.deb
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python-daemon_2.2.3-1_amd64.buildinfo
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Re: Updating the policy for conflicting binaries names ? [was: Re: Re: New package netgen-lvs with binary /usr/bin/netgen - already taken]

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> Adrian Bunk writes:
> > I thought this would would have been less offensive than the normal
> > "This is a lie."
>
> You should never accuse someone of lying unless you are sure that they
> know that what they are saying is wrong.

For Adrian (since you acknowledged non-native English language status):
Ian is pointing out the distinction between “That is a lie” (asserting
the person knowingly intended to communicate a falsehood), versus
alternatives like “That is false” or “That is not true” (which carries
no implication of the person's intention or state of mind).

> If you can prove that someone is deliberately saying untrue things on
> Debian lists, that is abuse which should be reported and stopped.

If you don't want to support a claim that someone is lying, you can
avoid that implication: Just point out that the statement is not true
(and then do as you (Adrian) did to show how you know it's not true).

I hope that helps!

-- 
 \“Considering the current sad state of our computer programs, |
  `\ software development is clearly still a black art, and cannot |
_o__)  yet be called an engineering discipline.” —Bill Clinton |
Ben Finney

Corresponding source for a machine-learning data set (was: Concerns to software freedom when packaging deep-learning based appications.)

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> […] In the case of a pretrained neural network, the source code is the
> training data.
>
> In fact, they are probably not redistributable unless all the training
> data is supplied, since the GPL's definition of "source code" is the
> "preferred form for modification". For a pretrained neural network
> that is the training data.

One hopeful sign is that people are addressing the need for the source
form of a machine-learning product. In this case, it's by offering a
version control system customised to machine-learning data.


https://blog.dataversioncontrol.com/data-version-control-tutorial-9146715eda46>

Is that an approach we can recommend to upstream developers who publish
machine-learning data sets?

-- 
 \ “A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of |
  `\  five.” —Groucho Marx |
_o__)      |
Ben Finney

Re: Concerns to software freedom when packaging deep-learning based appications.

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson  writes:

> Things in Debian main shoudl be buildable *from source* using Debian
> main.  In the case of a pretrained neural network, the source code is
> the training data.
>
> In fact, they are probably not redistributable unless all the training
> data is supplied, since the GPL's definition of "source code" is the
> "preferred form for modification".  For a pretrained neural network
> that is the training data.

The above (with which I agree completely) puts me in mind of this
article from O'Reilly Media:

Compilers automated the process of writing machine code. Scripting
languages automate many mundane tasks by gluing together larger,
more complex programs. Software testing tools, automated deployment
tools, containers, and container orchestration systems are all tools
for automating the process of developing, deploying, and managing
software systems. None of these take advantage of machine learning,
but that is certainly the next step.

[…] We’ve seen research suggesting that neural networks can create
new programs by combining existing modules. The system is trained
using execution traces from other programs. […]

Thinking more systematically, Peter Norvig has argued that machine
learning can be used to generate short programs (but not long ones)
from training data; to optimize small parts of larger programs, but
not the entire program; and possibly to (with the help of humans) be
better tutors to beginning programmers.


https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/what-machine-learning-means-for-software-development>

This thread will be just one of many we will need to have, to determine
how best to preserve software freedom as the practice of developing
software changes fundamentally.

-- 
 \“I always had a repulsive need to be something more than |
  `\  human.” —David Bowie |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Accepted python-coverage 4.5.1+dfsg.1-1 (source all amd64) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 12:25:30 +1000
Source: python-coverage
Binary: python3-coverage pypy-coverage python-coverage python-coverage-doc
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 4.5.1+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 pypy-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2 PyPy
 python-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2
 python-coverage-doc - code coverage tool for Python — documentation
 python3-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 3
Closes: 901114
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5.1+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Ahmedur Rashid Chowdhury” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release: none documented.
   * Consolidate the ‘override_dh_auto_build’ packaging target.
   * Use a null command for ‘clean’ during ‘Git-BuildPackage’.
   * Correct build dependencies for both arch-dependent and -independent.
 Closes: bug#901114. Thanks to Santiago Vila for the report.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.5”.
   * Specify current URL for upstream source repository.
   * Improve consistency of copyright grant in Debian packaging.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Use standard Debian packaging tools to repack upstream source.
   * Convert UScan configuration to format version 4.
   * Remove specification of minimum Python versions.
 These are now satisfied by all currently supported Debian releases.
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Accepted comixcursors 0.9.1-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 23:20:49 +1000
Source: comixcursors
Binary: comixcursors-righthanded comixcursors-lefthanded 
comixcursors-righthanded-opaque comixcursors-lefthanded-opaque
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.9.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney 
Changed-By: Ben Finney 
Description:
 comixcursors-lefthanded - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art feeling 
(LH, translucen
 comixcursors-lefthanded-opaque - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art 
feeling (LH, opaque)
 comixcursors-righthanded - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art feeling 
(RH, translucen
 comixcursors-righthanded-opaque - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art 
feeling (RH, opaque)
Changes:
 comixcursors (0.9.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Vincenzo D'Allestro” release.
   * New upstream version.
   * Configure Git-BuildPackage for this Debian source package.
   * Update copyright years.
   * Configure UScan for new upstream release tarball URLs.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.5”.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 11.
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Re: get-orig-source and standardized source repacking

[Ben Finney]

Simon McVittie  writes:

> The only times repacking the orig tarball is required are:
>
> […]
> - it isn't available in a format supported by dpkg (with the extreme case
>   of this being that there is no orig tarball at all, only a VCS repository)

A case more extreme: the work is not distributed upstream as tarball nor
as VCS. It is available upstream only as disparate files, not from any
single URL.

(For a simple example of that, see the ‘lojban-common’ package.)

-- 
 \“I don't accept the currently fashionable assertion that any |
  `\   view is automatically as worthy of respect as any equal and |
_o__)   opposite view.” —Douglas Adams |
Ben Finney

Accepted xkcdpass 1.16.5+dfsg.1-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 05:36:46 +1000
Source: xkcdpass
Binary: xkcdpass
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.16.5+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 xkcdpass   - secure passphrase generator inspired by XKCD 936
Closes: 851144
Changes:
 xkcdpass (1.16.5+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Mong Shwe Lung Marma” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Correct the assumption about Python interpreter program name.
 * Add option ‘--case’ to specify case of words in passphrase.
 * Add option ‘--separator’ to specify separator between words.
   * Correct an editor hint.
 Closes: bug#851144. Thanks to Edward Betts for the report.
   * debian/patches/use-current-interpreter-name.patch:
 * Drop the patch, now applied upstream.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 11.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.4”.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Update copyright years for Debian packaging.
   * Remove ‘get-orig-source’ and ‘get-packaged-orig-source’ targets.
 These are no longer mentioned in Debian Policy 4.1.4 and later.
   * Update manual page for changes in command interface.
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Re: Debian Policy 4.1.4.0 released

[Ben Finney]

Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> writes:

> I just pushed Debian Policy 4.1.4.0 to sid. Thank you to the ~20
> people who contributed to this release, which includes several first
> time contributors of patches.
> […]
>
> 4.9
> The ``get-orig-source`` rules target has been removed.  Packages
> should use ``debian/watch`` and uscan instead.

Especially for this, my ‘debian/rules’ files thank you.

-- 
 \“Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they |
  `\ are the solution.” —Clay Shirky, 2012 |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: New lintian warning: vcs-deprecated-in-debian-infrastructure

[Ben Finney]

Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> writes:

> but pray tell, what will you do with that URL?

Visit it later, when I *do* have internet access.

Many people have internet connections that are unreliable, slow,
expensive, arbitrarily blocked, or some combination of all those. We
should not assume that “has internet access” is a binary, all-or-nothing
property; and we should not dismiss the use cases of people who are
between those extremes.

-- 
 \“Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “Wuh, I think |
  `\   so, Brain, but wouldn't anything lose its flavor on the bedpost |
_o__)   overnight?” —_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney

Re: New lintian warning: vcs-deprecated-in-debian-infrastructure

[Ben Finney]

Markus Koschany <a...@debian.org> writes:

> Am 22.03.2018 um 15:40 schrieb Guillem Jover:
> > I'd very strongly object to completely moving those fields out of
> > the source packages [&.3] I'll happily take outdated data than no
> > data any day, because usually you can use that outdated data to
> > trace your way to the current one, not so if it's missing.
>
> You need online access to make use of the above information in any
> way.

That's not true; you are incorrect in thinking that exhausts the common
uses of that information. For example:

> If you want to contact the maintainer you need internet access

With the maintainer email address, I do not need internet access to
compose an email message. Without that information I can't.

> if you want to visit the upstream homepage you need internet access

With the upstream home page URL, I do not need internet access to
bookmark a URL. Without that URL I can't.

> etc.

So, there are plenty of uses for information that do not require
internet access *at the time of using* the information.

Yes, some uses do require internet access; that doesn't eliminate all
usefulness of the information.

So, I concur with Guillem: This information is closely tied to the
source package, and the source package becomes less useful (lack of
imagination notwithstanding :-) by taking that information away from the
source package.

There may be good arguments for removing that information from the
source package. But let's dispose now of the “it's no use” claim;
that's simply false, so some other justification will be needed.

-- 
 \   “If consumers even know there's a DRM, what it is, and how it |
  `\ works, we've already failed.” —Peter Lee, Disney corporation, |
_o__)         2005 |
Ben Finney

Accepted gandi-cli 1.2-1 (source all) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:36:45 +1100
Source: gandi-cli
Binary: gandi-cli
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 gandi-cli  - command-line interface for Gandi service
Closes: 764342
Changes:
 gandi-cli (1.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Yuko Sakai” release.
   * Initial Debian release.
 (Closes: bug#764342)
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Re: Bug#880014: Technical committee appointment

[Ben Finney]

Gunnar Wolf <gw...@debian.org> writes:

> I have to pick a nit here - I know this mail probably comes from a
> template and you are repeating what used to be true here. But,
> according to GR 003 in 2016¹, Didier is the "Chair" of the Technical
> Committee, not the "Chairman".

Thank you, this was a well worded correction that avoided any accusation
or shame. These corrections are always worthwhile, for improving the
welcoming culture of the Debian community.

-- 
 \“If you continue running Windows, your system may become |
  `\unstable.” —Microsoft, Windows 95 bluescreen error message |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: Updated proposal for improving the FTP NEW process

[Ben Finney]

Gert Wollny <gw.foss...@gmail.com> writes:

> […] simply asking the peers doesn't make the process very public.

That is, IIUC, by design and for good reason.

Before a review of the copyright status of the work is done, we don't
have confidence the Debian Project has permission to redistribute it
publicly.

If it turns out the work is not redistributable by the Debian Project,
it is then too late; and the case could be made that we should not allow
that situation to arise (i.e. we should not redistribute before we have
confidence the work can legally be permitted by us).

So, putting it up on some public Debian infrastructure before it passes
review is, IIUC, problematic for that reason at least.

-- 
 \ “Please leave your values at the front desk.” —hotel, Paris |
  `\   |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Salsa issue tracker disabled for Debian group (was: A proposal for improving transparency of the FTP NEW process)

[Ben Finney]

Thomas Goirand <z...@debian.org> writes:

> Also, I would really have preferred if Salsa's issue tracker feature
> was simply removed/desactivated, because every other day, there's
> someone proposing to replace debbug with it. Thanks but no thanks.

As best I can tell, any project created in the Debian group
<URL:https://salsa.debian.org/debian/> already has the Issues permission
off, without anything else needing to be done.

That seems entirely appropriate, for a Debian packaging project, for the
reason you state (any Debian package should have bugs reported to the
Debian BTS).

Does that meet the preference you expressed above?

-- 
 \   “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them |
  `\to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their |
_o__)  own desires.” —Susan Brownell Anthony, 1896 |
Ben Finney

Re: A proposal for improving transparency of the FTP NEW process

[Ben Finney]

Paul Gevers <elb...@debian.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> On 03-03-18 11:57, Ben Finney wrote:
> > A large code base with complex interacting works of copyright can be
> > broken into smaller packages, that are each individually easier to
> > review and pass through NEW; either built as separate source
> > packages, or combined at build time.
>
> Except if there is one upstream tar ball. Do you really suggest we
> should repack one upstream tar ball into multiple smaller tar balls
> just for the review process?

To say “should” is rather too strong. I'm presenting it as one option to
try, for those who are frustrated at the slow review process for a large,
complex source package with complex copyright interactions: Break it
into more easily-reviewed pieces.

The review process is an acknowledged bottleneck for NEW queue
processing, and we've seen stated that large, complex source packages
are especially difficult to get through.

I'm proposing that the same code base as a set of smaller source
packages will get through that bottleneck easier; I don't say that as a
recommendation nor a “should”, but as an option to try, for those of us
who not FTPmaster and are looking for ways to work better with the
process.

-- 
 \   “Whenever you read a good book, it's like the author is right |
  `\   there, in the room talking to you, which is why I don't like to |
_o__)       read good books.” —Jack Handey |
Ben Finney

Re: A proposal for improving transparency of the FTP NEW process

[Ben Finney]

Lars Wirzenius <l...@liw.fi> writes:

> Admittedly, it is quite a small package, but that's kind-of my point.
> Making it easy for others to do the thing you need them to do is what
> you can do to make things easier for you. Asking them to do more work,
> or to change how they do their thing, is less likely to go well.
>
> The Linux kernel maintainers flat-out reject large patches that dump
> big changes without prior discussion. This is because it's easier for
> them to digest changes in smaller chunks, and they put the
> responsibility for presenting the changes that way on the people
> producing the patches.
>
> For Debian, I think we should have the same approach. […]

Your recounted experience suggests another way (compatible with the ways
you discussed) to reduce the work of reviewing a code base with complex
copyright interactions:

A large code base with complex interacting works of copyright can be
broken into smaller packages, that are each individually easier to
review and pass through NEW; either built as separate source packages,
or combined at build time.

Will that work for every large package? Maybe that's too much to hope
for. But in those cases where the maintainers are frustrated that the
NEW queue processing takes a long time to pass their new package: isn't
it worth the effort to try making it easier to review by breaking the
package into smaller more easily-reviewed chunks?

A maintainer (or a team) who tries that might find it's not so hard; and
having done that, it becomes that much easier to understand not only the
copyright status of each smaller package, but for a newcomer to
understand how to maintain it. This is a benefit not only in getting the
package reviewed through the NEW queue, but also for attracting
additional co-maintainers.

Breaking large complex tangles into smaller manageable pieces is thus,
I'd suggest, an investment in reducing the overall work of Debian
package maintenance.

> There may be other reasons why some packages stay in NEW for a long
> time. Getting information from ftp masters about the reasons why, and
> a discussion of how we can make easier for them to make NEW review
> easier would, I feel, take us forward better than another than us
> complaining that things are taking too long.

Thanks for keeping the options open.

-- 
 \ Contentsofsignaturemaysettleduringshipping. |
  `\   |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Accepted python-daemon 2.1.2-2 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 09:07:48 +1100
Source: python-daemon
Binary: python-daemon python3-daemon
Architecture: source all
Version: 2.1.2-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-daemon - library for making a Unix daemon process — Python 2
 python3-daemon - library for making a Unix daemon process — Python 3
Closes: 891543
Changes:
 python-daemon (2.1.2-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Maria Rivoli” release.
   * Use HTTPS URL for copyright format reference.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.3”. No additional changes needed.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 11.
   * Change to current VCS URL for Debian packaging source.
   * Update description of source package for current VCS workflow.
   * Update Git-Buildpackage configuration for current VCS workflow.
   * Patch build system to remove build-only dependency ‘docutils’.
 Closes: bug#891543. Thanks to Benjamin Drung for the report.
   * Use helpful substitutions provided by UScan.
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Accepted jquery-at.js 1.5.4+dfsg.1-2 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:09:42 +1100
Source: jquery-at.js
Binary: libjs-jquery-atwho
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.5.4+dfsg.1-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 libjs-jquery-atwho - library to autocomplete references in text fields
Closes: 890391
Changes:
 jquery-at.js (1.5.4+dfsg.1-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Ananda Gopal Ganguly” release.
   * Patch the CSS to correct an invalid font declaration.
   * Use helpful substitution markers in UScan configuration.
   * Patch Gulp build system to remove unused actions.
   * Use the Gulp build system to compile CoffeeScript source.
 Closes: bug#890391. Thanks to Pirate Praveen for the report
 and assistance in packaging the changes.
   * Use the Gulp build system to compile the library.
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Accepted jquery-caret.js 0.3.1+dfsg.1-2 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 13:16:51 +1100
Source: jquery-caret.js
Binary: libjs-jquery-caret.js
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.3.1+dfsg.1-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 libjs-jquery-caret.js - library to query input caret position
Closes: 890875
Changes:
 jquery-caret.js (0.3.1+dfsg.1-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Upload to “unstable”.
 Closes: bug#890875. Thanks to Pirate Praveen for the report.
 Thanks to Balasankar C for the verifiable test case.
   * Use current HTTPS URL for copyright format declaration.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Update description of source package for current VCS workflow.
   * Update Git-Buildpackage configuration for current VCS workflow.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 11.
   * Move package to new “Section: javascript”.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.3”.
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Accepted dput 1.0.2 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 11:07:14 +1100
Source: dput
Binary: dput
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.0.2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 dput   - Debian package upload tool
Closes: 876382 891268
Changes:
 dput (1.0.2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Rezaul Karim Siddique” release.
   * Parse custom port value as integer from FQDN value text.
 Closes: bug#876382. Thanks to Marc Haber for the report.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.3”. No additional changes needed.
   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 11.
   * Update copyright years.
   * Update reference URLs to HTTPS scheme, where appropriate.
   * Define custom report behaviour for Reportbug.
   * Declare EditorConfig settings for the code base.
   * Change ‘incoming’ for ‘mentors’ host in default configuration.
 Closes: bug#891268. Thanks to Mattia Rizzolo for the report and patch.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.5+dfsg.1-3 (source all amd64) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:33:50 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Binary: python3-coverage pypy-coverage python-coverage python-coverage-doc
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 4.5+dfsg.1-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 pypy-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2 PyPy
 python-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2
 python-coverage-doc - code coverage tool for Python — documentation
 python3-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 3
Closes: 890578
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5+dfsg.1-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Simona Monti” release.
   * Document copyright information for bundled files in source:
 * jquery.hotkeys.js
 * jquery.isonscreen.js
 Closes: bug#890578. Thanks to Chris Lamb for the report.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.5+dfsg.1-2 (source all amd64) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:56:06 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Binary: python3-coverage pypy-coverage python-coverage python-coverage-doc
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 4.5+dfsg.1-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 pypy-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2 PyPy
 python-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2
 python-coverage-doc - code coverage tool for Python — documentation
 python3-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 3
Closes: 889823 890560
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5+dfsg.1-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Nadia Benedetti” release.
   * Build ‘pypy-coverage’ binary package.
 Closes: bug#889823. Thanks to Ondřej Nový for the report and patch.
   * Correct install directory in Debian rules.
 Closes: bug#890560. Thanks to Chris Lamb for the report and patch.
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Accepted jquery-at.js 1.5.4+dfsg.1-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:41:34 +1100
Source: jquery-at.js
Binary: libjs-jquery-atwho
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.5.4+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 libjs-jquery-atwho - library to autocomplete references in text fields
Closes: 878478
Changes:
 jquery-at.js (1.5.4+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Nikhil Joarder” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Restores ‘functionOverrides’ setting.
   * Correct declaration of Source URL.
   * Correct URL for copyright file format.
   * Update description of source package for current VCS workflow.
   * Update Git-Buildpackage configuration for current VCS workflow.
   * Correct “Section: javascript”.
 Closes: bug#878478.
   * Declare architecture-independent build dependencies.
   * Upgrade Debhelper dependency to version 11.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.3”.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Correct filesystem permissions for ‘debian/rules’.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.5+dfsg.1-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 17:12:22 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Binary: python3-coverage python-coverage python-coverage-doc
Architecture: source all
Version: 4.5+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2
 python-coverage-doc - code coverage tool for Python — documentation
 python3-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 3
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.5+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Zakir Hossain Shaon” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Support for plug-ins to alter Coverage.py configuration.
 * Corrected behaviour of ‘include’ and ‘omit’ options.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Update description of source package for current VCS workflow.
   * Update Git-Buildpackage configuration for current VCS workflow.
   * Override the Pybuild build system detection.
 The presence of a Makefile confuses Pybuild.
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Accepted editorconfig-core-py 0.12.1-1 (source all) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 10:25:22 +1100
Source: editorconfig-core-py
Binary: python3-editorconfig python-editorconfig
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.12.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-editorconfig - library for working with EditorConfig — Python 2
 python3-editorconfig - library for working with EditorConfig — Python 3
Closes: 889694
Changes:
 editorconfig-core-py (0.12.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Initial Debian release.
 Closes: bug#889694.
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Bug#889696: ITP: editorconfig-gedit -- EditorConfig support for GEdit

[Ben Finney]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>

* Package name: editorconfig-gedit
  Version : 0.5.3
  Upstream Author : EditorConfig Team
* URL : https://github.com/editorconfig/editorconfig-gedit/
* License : BSD-2-clause
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : EditorConfig support for GEdit

  EditorConfig makes it easy to maintain the correct coding style
  when switching between different text editors and between
  different projects.
  .
  This package installs the plug-in for GEdit to support
  EditorConfig settings.

-- 
 \ “I'm a born-again atheist.” —Gore Vidal |
  `\   |
_o__)      |
Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Bug#889694: ITP: editorconfig-core-py -- Python library for working with EditorConfig

[Ben Finney]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>

* Package name: editorconfig-core-py
  Version : 0.12.1
  Upstream Author : EditorConfig Team
* URL : https://pypi.org/project/EditorConfig/
* License : PSF-2
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Python library for working with EditorConfig

  EditorConfig makes it easy to maintain the correct coding style
  when switching between different text editors and between
  different projects.
  .
  When developing an editor plugin for reading EditorConfig files,
  the EditorConfig core code can be used to locate and parse these
  files.
  .
  This package is the Python library of EditorConfig Core.

This is a dependency for the ‘editorconfig-gedit’ package.

-- 
 \   德不孤、必有鄰。 (The virtuous are not abandoned, |
  `\   they shall surely have neighbours.) |
_o__)—孔夫子 Confucius (551 BCE – 479 BCE) |
Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: proposal: ITR (was Re: Removing packages perhaps too aggressively?)

[Ben Finney]

Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> writes:

> One issue: on a small screen, crap font and no glasses, "ITR" looks similar
> to "ITP", an alternate acronym could be better.

RFI (Request for Interest)
RFU (Request for Users)
POLL (Participate Or Let's Lose this)

-- 
 \“Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in |
  `\   choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable.” —John |
_o__)Kenneth Galbraith, 1962-03-02 |
Ben Finney

GitLab repository logo customisation

[Ben Finney]

Howdy all,

Jeremy Bicha has a short post describing how a repository on Debian's
GitLab can customise its avatar or logo.

There’s a useful under-documented feature I found. If you place a
logo.png in the root of your repository, it will be automatically
used as the default “avatar” for your project (in other words, the
logo that shows up on the web page next to your project).

<URL:https://jeremy.bicha.net/2018/01/30/default-avatar-for-gitlab-repos/>

-- 
 \   “The great thing about science is we can test our ideas.… But |
  `\   until we do, until we have data, it is just one more proposal.” |
_o__) —Darren Saunders, 2015-12-02 |
Ben Finney

Accepted python-coverage 4.4.2+dfsg.1-1 (source amd64 all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 18:39:57 +1100
Source: python-coverage
Binary: python3-coverage python-coverage python-coverage-doc
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 4.4.2+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2
 python-coverage-doc - code coverage tool for Python — documentation
 python3-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 3
Closes: 887780
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.4.2+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Saiful Islam Chowkidar” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Support for Python 3.7.
 * Fixed a race condition when saving data.
 * Tilde expansion in file paths for configuration options.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.3”. No additional changes required.
   * debian/patches/03.remove-hotkeys.patch:
 * Consolidate hunks, to avoid multiple patches of any one file.
   Closes: bug#887780. Thanks to Jeffrey Cliff for the report.
   * Update Lintian overrides for current Python versions.
   * Use HTTPS URL for PyPI redirector.
   * Update Debhelper compatibility level to 11.
   * debian/tests/control:
 * Update for new filesystem location of documentation.
   * Override erroneous ‘missing-notice-file-for-apache-license’.
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Serving repos from salsa, via ‘anonscm.debian.org’ URLs (was: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta)

[Ben Finney]

Guillem Jover <guil...@debian.org> writes:

> But this still leaves all checkouts that will also need to be updated,
> which is way way worse than the changes required in debian/control,
> documentation, wiki, etc. :( I also mentioned this when we moved from
> git.d.o to anonscm.d.o.

This is an issue I haven't seen addressed with a solution, so far. We're
being asked to migrate repositories, published at ‘anonscm.debian.org’
URLs, to a host that won't serve those same URLs.

People who have ‘anonscm.debian.org’ as a remote URL should not, IMO, be
expected to know about this move; nor event to check a website prior to
the move (because there's no indication, from accessing that repository
with Git, that anything is expwected to move anywhere).

As Guillen points out, having the existing URL serve a moribund
repository, while the repository continues development somewhere else,
can be avoided – the domains are both in Debian Project control – and
should be avoided if feasible, IMO.

So it's important to keep ‘anonscm.debian.org’ working to access the
same repository at the same URL, after it moves to ‘salsa’.

What is the prospect, having migrated a repository to the
salsa.debian.org host, to continuing to serve the repository at the
published ‘anonscm.debian.org’ URL?

-- 
 \“A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can |
  `\ take from you.” —Ramsey Clark |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: Why do we list individual copyright holders?

[Ben Finney]

Marc Haber <mh+debian-de...@zugschlus.de> writes:

> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 20:01:12 -0500, Jeremy Bicha <jbi...@ubuntu.com>
> wrote:
> >I was forced to spend a few hours doing a thorough copyright file
> >earlier this year for mozjs52 which is simply the JavaScript engine
> >from Firefox 52 ESR. I first tried copying the Firefox 52 ESR's
> >copyright file (removing the extra lines that didn't apply to this
> >more minimal source) but it wasn't complete enough. (mozjs52 is
> >essential for GNOME Shell 3.26.)
>
> In the long run, this is going to keep big software packages from
> being packaged for Debian.

We (the Debian Project) don't have to accept being the *only* ones
shouldering this burden. Large upstream organisations have large
shoulders.

Surely a team responsible for a large code base also must – to avoid
self-delusion – confront the need to know, with confidence that comes
from standard, verifiable documentation, the provenance of works from
which their code base is derived.

This is quite apart from any requirements the Debian Project has; it is
part of distributing any work that derives from many copyright holders
over a log history of changes.

Our conversations about this with upstream maintainers can, I think,
more often be collaborative in nature. Instead of appealing to only one
party's policy, appeal rather to the common need for this knowledge to
be gathered, and maintained, and recorded somewhere, in a standard
format for reference by anyone when needed.

-- 
 \  “The process by which banks create money is so simple that the |
  `\ mind is repelled.” —John Kenneth Galbraith, _Money: Whence It |
_o__)       Came, Where It Went_, 1975 |
Ben Finney

Re: Has Copyright summarizing outlived its usefulness?

[Ben Finney]

Simon McVittie <s...@debian.org> writes:

> On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 at 23:10:51 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> > expecting to find “complete copyright holder information” such
> > that we can be confident it *is* complete, solely in the upstream source
> > is a folly, in my experience.
>
> Given that, on what basis can a user of the package gain value from
> our claim that the complete list of copyright holders is present in
> debian/copyright?

Because that file is typically a record of a specific effort to
*acquire* that information, and to document it for people who are
careful about the provenance and grant of license in the work.

The upstream source typically does not have that property, which is why
I'm saying ‘debian/copyright’ is valuable for that in a way that can't
be had from a typical upstream source work.

> For non-trivial packages it almost certainly isn't, because if the
> upstream maintainers (who gate all contributions) don't know the
> complete list

In my experience the information can be had from the upstream people, in
many cases where it simply isn't recorded reliably or coherently in the
source work.

The distinction I'm drawing is in response to proposals in this thread,
to declare the record in ‘debian/copyright’ to be obsolete. Some
proposals have advocated that we rely on finding that information solely
in the upstream work.

I'm pointing out that's comparatively unreliable, by comparison to the
current – admittedly under-resourced – concerted effort to find and
gather and standardise and maintain that information for the benefit of
people who want to quickly find the freedoms granted and who
specifically grants those freedoms.

> > This effort is rarely undertaken to completion in the general
> > free-software community.
>
> Yes, and rather than seeing that as a source of disappointment with
> the general free software community and demanding that our volunteers
> spend heroic amounts of effort on doing it ourselves, perhaps we
> should consider why it's rarely done, and spend our volunteers' time
> more wisely?

I agree that the burden falls unfairly on Debian Project volunteers. I
prefer to have our volunteers push that responsibility upstream more
often, making it a norm beyond our project and into the broader
community, to expect that the information can be found. And gently,
diplomatically, promoting the importance to any potential free software
recipient of knowing the provenance of a work's copyright status and
provenance.

> Linux distributions exist, they don't attempt to list every copyright
> holder on the Linux kernel, and in practice this is fine, which
> suggests that this is an ocean we're trying to boil as a weird Debian
> thing rather than because we actually need to. It's fine to have weird
> Debian things that we do because we're Debian rather than because we
> absolutely need to do them - but when we do, we should be clear about
> why, so that we can stop enforcing them if the cost (mostly in
> maintainer time and motivation, our most valuable commodities) exceeds
> the benefit.

I agree with the need to be clear about why. I hope this and other
expressions in this thread have helped make it clearer.

As you describe, the Debian Project has a long history in the free
software community of leading by persistent example, on a basis of
well-reasoned principle and informed by fact. I think this can continue.

-- 
 \   “If consumers even know there's a DRM, what it is, and how it |
  `\ works, we've already failed.” —Peter Lee, Disney corporation, |
_o__) 2005 |
Ben Finney

Re: Has Copyright summarizing outlived its usefulness?

[Ben Finney]

Steve Robbins <st...@sumost.ca> writes:

> On Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:11:20 PM CST gregor herrmann wrote:
> > My understanding is that a license without any information who puts
> > the software under this license (i.e. who is the copyright holder
> > who can grant these rights) is incomplete.
>
> OK, but surely it is up to Debian to choose the form of such
> information. For instance: each binary package is unambiguously linked
> to a source package; said source package is easy to locate and
> contains the complete copyright holder information.

That last point – whether it is easy or even feasible to locate the
complete copyright holder information merely by inspecting the upstream
source work alone – seems to be a particular issue in this discussion.


While the upstream source work is easy to locate for a Debian package,
the difficult task is locating *within* that upstream source work the
complete set of license grants that apply for the recipient.

If you're claiming that the *complete* copyright holder information is
to be found there: that is rarely the case, in my experience. Perhaps
for some simple, young, small, one-person works, written entirely
without deriving from any other work, by someone diligent about
recording their specific copyright information.

With works more complex than that, or those that have some history, or
some combination of existing works, or even those developed in the
“throw it online and copyright be damned” world we increasingly seem to
inhabit, expecting to find “complete copyright holder information” such
that we can be confident it *is* complete, solely in the upstream source
is a folly, in my experience.


The frustrations expressed by many in this thread are keenly felt by
those who interact with copyright, and not just by Debian package
maintainers. It is a lot of effort for a software project, open to
collaboration from the public at large, to record tracks carefully
enough to show the specific copyright holders and license grants, and
therefore to show provenance of the claimed grant of license in the
work, to some later recipient who needs to be sure of their status under
the law in most jurisdictions, and who may not have easy access to
contact the copyright holders even if they could know who those are.

This effort is rarely undertaken to completion in the general
free-software community.

The effort of figuring out who holds copyright in a typical published
software work by the time it gets to the Intent To Package for Debian,
is therefore difficult. It remains a significant effort after that, to
keep the information updated as the upstream maintainers continue to
make changes that potentially affect the copyright status of the work.

I assume we're agreed that it is necessary, in order that the Debian
Project can be confident we know the provenance of that work; which
itself is necessary to justify our claim to have received from the
specific copyright holders of the work some specific grant of license
(which we then grant, in turn, to Debian users).

To my mind, that effort – a precondition of confidently asserting the
copyright information and license we intend to grant to Debian users of
that software work – results in valuable and hard-won information
typically found in no single organised place. As such, that information
should not go unrecorded, it should be in a standard location for the
purpose of viewing the asserted copyright status and enabling future
verification of those claims.

That IMO is a principal value of recording the license grants, and the
collated information about the copyright holders, in the file
‘debian/copyright’ in a package.


> In the medical device industry, regulators allow vendors to use the
> "least burdensome" means of complying with a given regulation. At the
> risk of sounding naive, why can't apply this principle to copyright?

A naive answer might be: Because upstream copyright holders frequently
do not provide, in the work itself, sufficient nor complete nor
standardised documentation for us to use in complying with those
requirements.

So we present in a more standard (“least burdensome”, for the community
members who want assurance of compliance) format, our best understanding
of what evidence we have of our claim to the copyright information.

-- 
 \  “I knew things were changing when my Fraternity Brothers threw |
  `\   a guy out of the house for mocking me because I'm gay.” |
_o__)          —postsecret.com, 2010-01-19 |
Ben Finney

Which files should go in ‘/usr/share/common-licenses/’? (was: Has Copyright summarizing outlived its usefulness?)

[Ben Finney]

Wookey <woo...@wookware.org> writes:

> On 2017-12-08 01:42 +0100, Markus Koschany wrote:
> > Why don't we add all DFSG-free licenses to
> > /usr/share/common-licenses or /usr/share/free-licenses instead?
>
> I would second this. It seems odd that we only have a small subset in
> common-licences so I often end up finding/copying in a copy to the
> copyright file by hand. This seems like makework.

I am sympathetic to this. There is significant value in being able to
put a “License: GPL-3” paragraph that doesn't repeat the entire GPL v3,
and instead refers the reader to ‘/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3’.

The files in ‘/usr/share/common-licenses/’ get installed on every Debian
system, by the ‘base-files’ package. This is needed because that allows
‘/usr/share/doc/…/copyright’ to refer to a file there, knowing it will
be available.

If I understand correctly, the justification of putting a file there
must include that it is overwhelmingly more likely to save *storage
space* overall (by reducing the space in a corresponding number of
‘/usr/share/doc/…/copyright’ files), especially on machines that have
low disk space in ‘/usr/share/’.

So I think we should specifically ask the position of people who have
expertise maintaining machines with very small disk space: How to judge
which files should be unilaterally installed in that directory, in the
hope of saving not only the efforts of package maintainers, but also the
storage requirements on storage-constrained systems.

-- 
 \  “It seems intuitively obvious to me, which means that it might |
  `\   be wrong.” —Chris Torek |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney

Re: Has Copyright summarizing outlived its usefulness?

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> From what I've seen of the ftp review process, the file-by-file
> information is invaluable to ftpmaster review. As in, the ftpmaster
> review would probably be impractical without it. ftpmaster review
> necessarily focuses on the contents of the source package.

It is also invaluable, from what I can tell, as a common reference point
between what the *actual* copyright information of the work is –
something that can only be inferred, and that can change as the work
changes – versus what the maintainer *has inferred* as the copyright
information of the work.

Without that, it's very hard to talk about differences between what the
maintainer thinks is the case, versus what information is actually in
the upstream work.

> That the information for ftpmaster review has ended up being shipped
> as the user-facing copyright notice in the binary is arguably not
> ideal for some of the reasons we have explored here.

Agreed. Though I don't know of a better way, today, to serve the
purposes described above.

> So we go with what we have, and what we already have a mechanism for
> auditing.

Thanks for expressing this succinctly, Ian.

-- 
 \ “It’s a great idea to come in unencumbered by dogma but you |
  `\can’t also be unencumbered by evidence.” —Darren Saunders, |
_o__)           2015-12-02 |
Ben Finney

Re: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint)

[Ben Finney]

Jonathan Dowland <j...@debian.org> writes:

> On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 09:17:59PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >I at least, and probably a lot of Debian contributors, would start
> >hating Debian for promoting hardware that needs non-free drivers if
> >the non-free ISO was the default one.
>
> Are we promoting hardware that *doesn't* require non-free firmware
> (not drivers, there is an important distinction) at the moment?

I don't know what is meant (in either message) by “promoting hardware”.
What does an assertion of “yes, we promote such-and-so hardware” imply?

The implication that seems most sensible – we promote hardware to the
extent that we produce the Debian operating system supporting it – would
mean, AFAICT, that the Debian Project does not promote hardware that
needs non-free drivers (because the Debian system does not provide such
non-free drivers); and the Debian Project promotes hardware that doesn't
require non-free firmware (because the Debian system by default needs no
extra drivers for that hardware).

> I don't think so. Where are we prominently explaining the problem?
> Where are the links to the unencumbered hardware that people
> could/should be using instead?

This rhetorical question suggests that it's not the place of the Debian
Project to promote specific hardware. I agree with that.

On the other hand, we recognise, and can certainly draw attention to,
hardware that works with entirely free software; and we can refuse to
lend our effort to any reduction of software freedom for our users.

> Are *you* using non-free firmware?

The machines sold by, for example, ThinkPenguin, work with the latest
Debian release, without non-free software. There's one example, which
responds to the rhetoric of that question.

That distinction – there is hardware which works with entirely free
software, and we work to keep it so – is one of the most valuable things
the Debian Project does, and is why I work for the Debian Project.

There are, of course, hardware vendors that expend a lot of effort in
opposition to that goal. That does not justify the Debian Project
retreating from that goal.

> I can understand the discomfort of grasping this nettle.

Likewise, the nettle of pressing for increased software freedom is
difficult to grasp, but IMO core to the Debian Project.

> But are you completely closed to the idea of revisiting our core value
> documents at all? The Social Contract and DFSG were written a long
> time ago. Should the project not be open to looking at what our
> collective values are today, or are we beholden to the terms layed
> down by braver people, all those years ago?

Any idea is open to examination, I'd say. But this thread has not
presented any salient reason to retreat from the core values of the
project. Indeed, the facts presented in this thread cast into sharp
relief the urgency of recognising and pressing for software freedom.

-- 
 \  “I have a large seashell collection, which I keep scattered on |
  `\the beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen it.” —Steven |
_o__)           Wright |
Ben Finney

Accepted xkcdpass 1.14.2+dfsg.1-1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 16:36:45 +1100
Source: xkcdpass
Binary: xkcdpass
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.14.2+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 xkcdpass   - secure passphrase generator inspired by XKCD 936
Changes:
 xkcdpass (1.14.2+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Xulhaz Mannan” release.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
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   * Declare Debhelper compatibility level 10.
   * Correct the ‘dh_auto_build’ invocation.
   * Switch Git-Buildpackage to building source package from VCS overlay.
   * Convert UScan configuration to format version 4.
   * debian/patches/use-current-interpreter-name.patch:
 * Correct the assumption about Python interpreter program name.
   * Update Debian packaging license grant to GPL v3 or later.
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Accepted pyethash 0.1.27-1 (source amd64) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:53:58 +1000
Source: pyethash
Binary: python3-pyethash python-pyethash
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.1.27-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-pyethash - Ethash proof-of-work algorithm — Python 2
 python3-pyethash - Ethash proof-of-work algorithm — Python 3
Closes: 872602
Changes:
 pyethash (0.1.27-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “محمد صالح البجادي (Mohammed Saleh al-Bejadi)” release.
   * Initial release.
 Closes: bug#872602.
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Accepted pybitcointools 1.1.42-1 (source all) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 07:42:39 +1000
Source: pybitcointools
Binary: python3-bitcoin python-bitcoin pybtctool
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.1.42-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 pybtctool  - command interface for Bitcoin signatures and transactions
 python-bitcoin - library for cryptocurrency transactions — Python 2
 python3-bitcoin - library for cryptocurrency transactions — Python 3
Closes: 866519
Changes:
 pybitcointools (1.1.42-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Rabiul Karim” release.
   * Initial release.
 Closes: bug#866519.
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Accepted python-jsonext 0.4.1-1 (source all) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 21:11:04 +1000
Source: python-jsonext
Binary: python3-jsonext python-jsonext
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.4.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-jsonext - serialisation to/from JSON for extra types — Python 2
 python3-jsonext - serialisation to/from JSON for extra types — Python 3
Closes: 873285
Changes:
 python-jsonext (0.4.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “علي محمد باقر النمر‎‎ (Ali Mohammed Baqir al-Nimr)” release.
   * Initial release.
 Closes: bug#873285.
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Easy discovery of ‘debian/rules’ build problems (was: Unsustainable debian/rules as official build entry point?)

[Ben Finney]

Ian Jackson <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> After there is only one consumer [of the package-provided
> ‘debian/rules’ build interface], it will be somewhat easier to change
> [the policy so that interface is not the standard].

>From the rest of your message I infer that the mention of “one consumer”
there refers to (current or future) ‘dpkg-buildpackage’, is that correct?

> Important consequences of my views include:
>
> * The package-provided rules interface needs to remain managed as part
>   of policy (and to continue to have a controlled approach to updates,
>   etc.).
>
> * The interface is not *defined by* dpkg-buildpackage: ie it is still
>   possible for dpkg-buildpackage to have a bug where it does not
>   implement the de-jure interface.
>
> * Packages may still need to work around bugs in old versions of
>   dpkg-buildpackage; conversely, new versions of dpkg-buildpackage may
>   need to work around bugs in old packages.
>
> * For a long time, packages should try to be compatible with old
>   builders which invoke rules directly, even old builders other than
>   dpkg-buildpackage.

I had been under the impression the build tools (SBuild, PBuilder, etc.)
invoke ‘debian/rules’ directly, and so are a good way to test that
compatibility. Evidently that impression is wrong, and the use of those
build tools is not helping to find such bugs.

What tools exist to allow package maintainers – as many as possible – to
get easy (automatic?) notification when the package they maintain is not
presenting a compatible ‘debian/rules’ build interface?

-- 
 \  “Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest do not |
  `\ happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these |
_o__)      defects.” —Mark Twain, _A Horse's Tale_ |
Ben Finney

Accepted dput 1.0.1 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2017 18:51:25 +1000
Source: dput
Binary: dput
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.0.1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 dput   - Debian package upload tool
Changes:
 dput (1.0.1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Upload to “unstable”.
 Thanks to testers of the Python 3 migration.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.0”. No additional changes needed.
   * Use current HTTPS URL for copyright format reference.
   * Remove declaration of Python 2 support.
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Accepted python-coverage 4.4.1+dfsg.1-1 (source amd64 all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2017 17:59:17 +1000
Source: python-coverage
Binary: python3-coverage python-coverage python-coverage-doc
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 4.4.1+dfsg.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 2
 python-coverage-doc - code coverage tool for Python — documentation
 python3-coverage - code coverage tool for Python 3
Changes:
 python-coverage (4.4.1+dfsg.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Jogeshwar Roy” release.
   * Upload to “unstable” suite.
   * New upstream version.
 Highlights since previous release:
 * Some warnings can now be individually disabled.
 * Plugins can now choose to find unexecuted files.
 * Errors now go to the standard error stream.
   * Refresh patches for new upstream version.
   * Use current HTTPS URL for copyright format reference.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.1.0”. No additional changes required.
   * Update copyright years in Debian packaging.
   * Grant a uniform license for Debian packaging work.
   * Enable smoke test of installed Python scripts in autopkgtest.
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Accepted pyrlp 0.5.1-1 (source all) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 05:25:42 +1000
Source: pyrlp
Binary: python3-rlp python-rlp python-rlp-doc
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.5.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-rlp - Recursive Length Prefix (RLP) library — Python 2
 python-rlp-doc - Recursive Length Prefix (RLP) library — documentation
 python3-rlp - Recursive Length Prefix (RLP) library — Python 3
Closes: 866168
Changes:
 pyrlp (0.5.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Zuhair Kutbi” release.
   * Initial release.
 Closes: bug#866168.
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Re: Whether remotely running software is considered "software" for Debian.

[Ben Finney]

Andrey Rahmatullin <w...@debian.org> writes:

> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 01:51:16AM -0400, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
> > Policy is not the Social Contract, Policy is not the Constitution.
> > Policy can be relatively easily changed and is supposed to largely
> > document actual practices. So really, Policy needs to be amended.
> > And attempting to language-lawyer Policy like this is pointless.
> I don't it *needs* to be amended as there is no data that the current
> policy language cause problems.

Yes, I'm in agreement that the Policy wording has not been demonstrated
to cause the alleged problems.

I'm also in agreement with Anthony that, *if* the Policy wording is in
conflict with agreed consensus practice, in that hypothetical scenario
that would mean it is Policy that need to change.

-- 
 \  “A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. |
  `\Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in |
_o__)   principle is always a vice.” —Thomas Paine |
Ben Finney

Re: Whether remotely running software is considered "software" for Debian.

[Ben Finney]

Anthony DeRobertis <anth...@derobert.net> writes:

> Policy is not the Social Contract, Policy is not the Constitution.
> Policy can be relatively easily changed and is supposed to largely
> document actual practices. So really, Policy needs to be amended. And
> attempting to language-lawyer Policy like this is pointless.

Thank you, that's all well put.

-- 
 \   “I love and treasure individuals as I meet them, I loathe and |
  `\ despise the groups they identify with and belong to.” —George |
_o__)     Carlin, 2007 |
Ben Finney

Accepted python-tinyrpc 0.6-1 (source all) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 18:44:10 +1000
Source: python-tinyrpc
Binary: python3-tinyrpc python-tinyrpc python-tinyrpc-doc
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.6-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-tinyrpc - small, modular RPC library — Python 2
 python-tinyrpc-doc - small, modular RPC library — documentation
 python3-tinyrpc - small, modular RPC library — Python 3
Closes: 866515
Changes:
 python-tinyrpc (0.6-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “خالد الجهني (Khaled Al-Jehani)” release.
   * Initial release.
 Closes: bug#866515.
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Re: Whether remotely running software is considered "software" for Debian.

[Ben Finney]

Carsten Leonhardt <l...@debian.org> writes:

> Actually, I haven't seen anyone citing the following part of policy
> 2.2.1: "None of the packages in the main archive area require software
> outside of that area to function."

Yes, that's been raised. I've responded to that at
<URL:https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/851sodkbsc@benfinney.id.au>.

-- 
 \  “Software patents provide one more means of controlling access |
  `\  to information. They are the tool of choice for the internet |
_o__) highwayman.” —Anthony Taylor |
Ben Finney

Accepted comixcursors 0.9-2 (source all) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 04:03:25 +1000
Source: comixcursors
Binary: comixcursors-righthanded comixcursors-lefthanded 
comixcursors-righthanded-opaque comixcursors-lefthanded-opaque
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.9-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 comixcursors-lefthanded - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art feeling 
(LH, translucen
 comixcursors-lefthanded-opaque - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art 
feeling (LH, opaque)
 comixcursors-righthanded - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art feeling 
(RH, translucen
 comixcursors-righthanded-opaque - X11 mouse pointer themes with a comic art 
feeling (RH, opaque)
Changes:
 comixcursors (0.9-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “Ishrat Akhond” release.
   * Use current HTTPS URL for copyright format reference.
   * Update copyright years.
   * Specify current VCS for Debian packaging work.
   * Add build targets recommended by Debian Policy §4.9.
   * Update UScan configuration for upstream source URLs.
   * Declare “Standards-Version: 4.0.1”. No additional changes required.
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Accepted pysha3 1.0.2-2 (source amd64) into unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:36:06 +1000
Source: pysha3
Binary: python3-sha3 python-sha3
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.0.2-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-sha3 - SHA-3 (Keccak) hash implementation — Python 2
 python3-sha3 - SHA-3 (Keccak) hash implementation — Python 3
Changes:
 pysha3 (1.0.2-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Correct VCS URL fields.
   * Remove suggestion for unrelated package.
   * Enable upstream test suite during build.
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Re: Project and User creation is now disabled on alioth.d.o

[Ben Finney]

Alexander Wirt <formo...@debian.org> writes:

> as alioth is deprecated and will (more or less) get replaced with
> other services soon I disabled user creation and project creation on
> alioth.
>
> Please stay tuned for the results of our sprint at the weekend, an
> announcement should come that week.

How exciting! Thank you to all for working on Alioths successor, and for
working to make a graceful transition.

-- 
 \   “We spend the first twelve months of our children's lives |
  `\  teaching them to walk and talk and the next twelve years |
_o__)   telling them to sit down and shut up.” —Phyllis Diller |
Ben Finney

Accepted pysha3 1.0.2-1 (source amd64) into unstable, unstable

[Ben Finney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:59:19 +1000
Source: pysha3
Binary: python3-sha3 python-sha3
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.0.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org>
Description:
 python-sha3 - SHA-3 (Keccak) hash implementation — Python 2
 python3-sha3 - SHA-3 (Keccak) hash implementation — Python 3
Closes: 866518
Changes:
 pysha3 (1.0.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * The “سليمان الرشودي (Suliman Ibrahim al-Reshoudi)” release.
   * Initial release.
 Closes: bug#866518.
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Package Managers All the Way Down

[Ben Finney]

Howdy all,

I am catching up with the Linux.conf.au 2017 presentations, and have
just watched “Package Managers All the Way Down” by Kristoffer Grönlund
<URL:https://archive.org/details/lca2017-Package_Managers_all_the_way_down>,
also discussed at LWN <URL:https://lwn.net/Articles/712318/>.

The problems Kristoffer covered are ones that affect the Debian Project
a lot, and his call for solutions is interesting. Are there any DebConf
2017 presentations or working groups that are tackling this?

-- 
 \“I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance |
  `\  any day.” —Douglas Adams |
_o__)      |
Ben Finney

Re: Whether remotely running software is considered "software" for Debian.

[Ben Finney]

"Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wij...@debian.org> writes:

> I'm referring to policy 2.2, which lists what software belongs in main
> and what belongs in contrib. While this is not voted on and it does
> not follow directly from the SC, I thought there was agreement that
> what's in Policy 2.2 is a good way to determine where software should
> go. In particular, if it is free, but requires software outside of
> main to do its job, then it should go in contrib.

The parts of Policy §2.2 relevant to this appear to be:

§2.2.1 “The main archive area”

[…]
In addition, the packages in _main_
* must not require or recommend a package outside of _main_ for
  compilation or execution (thus, the package must not declare a
  [dependency relationship] on a non-_main_ package)
[…]

§2.2.2 “The contrib archive area”

The _contrib_ archive area contains supplemental packages intended
to work with the Debian distribution, but which require software
outside of the distribution to either build or function.

[…]
Examples of packages which would be included in _contrib_ are:
* free packages which require _contrib_, _non-free_ packages or
  packages which are not in our archive at all for compilation or
  execution
[…]

The language is clear that it is talking about dependency in the sense
of requiring the program installed on the system in order for the
program to build or execute.

> People are arguing here that "It requires a network server that is not
> in main" is fundamentally different from "it requires local software
> that is not in main".

I don't know of any program even proposed for Debian that would require
a network server in order to build or execute that program. So yes, that
is a distinction that is salient in the above Policy language.

> I think they are equivalent; server software is still software and I
> don't see why it running remotely suddenly makes it acceptable to
> depend on it.

You appear to be using “depend” here to mean “without this the program
*is not useful*”.

That is not a distinction relevant to the above Policy sections. They
speak only to whether the program will build or execute.

Whether the program does something useful is not relevant for the
categorisation into different archive areas, as laid out in the above
Policy sections.

> Policy 2.2. So again, I'm not saying the rules apply to the external
> software, I'm just saying that the external software is indeed
> software and therefore depending on it requires a package to be moved
> to contrib if the external software is not packaged in Debian (main).

The text of the above Policy sections uses “depend” and “require” in the
sense only for the cases they explicitly state: that of building the
program or executing it.

> Similarly, if a client program's purpose is to connect to a server
> that is not in main, the server operator doesn't need to do anything,
> but the fact that it is not in main means (IMO, but apparently that is
> disputed) that the client must be in contrib.

The language in Policy §2.2 does not relate to any program's purpose at
all.

Policy experts may correct me, but I find that your interpretation does
not fit what is written there.

-- 
 \  “When I was born I was so surprised I couldn't talk for a year |
  `\and a half.” —Gracie Allen |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: Whether remotely running software is considered "software" for Debian.

[Ben Finney]

"Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wij...@debian.org> writes:

> What seems to be the dispute is whether software that runs on a remote
> system is still "software" for the purpose of our rules.

That is not in dispute, it seems to me. The rules of the Debian Project
can only bind what the Debian Project does.

The Debian Project could moot rules about what the project will do with
regard to software that runs on a remote system. While there are trends,
I don't think such rules exist yet, or if they do you haven't shown us
what rules you're referring to.

The Debian Project does have rules about software *in Debian*, as
described in, for example, our Social Contract.

I hope we can agree that the Social Contract's rules about software in
Debian do not have any power to restrict software running on remote
systems (unless they also get their software from Debian).

> I think [software that runs on a remote system] is [software for the
> purpose of the Debian Project's rules], especially considering the
> trend that almost everything is being moved into the cloud.

Which of the Debian Project's rules are you referring to there? Can you
show from where in those rules you draw this interpretation?

> I believe Debian's philosophy should be that software running remotely
> on behalf of the user should be considered part of the system

By that philosophy, if person Foo connects to a system I am operating on
the internet, the rules person Foo has chosen to accept are also binding
on me? Even if I do not accept those rules?

If not, please explain where that interpretation of your statement is
inaccurate.

> It seems clear to me that a program which is intended to interact with
> server software does indeed require that server software to function.
> So if there is no free implementation of the server, then the client
> cannot be in main.

Maybe so, but that appears to be a different position: that the Debian
Project's rules apply to software in Debian which interacts with remote
systems.

That's very different from stating that the remote system's software is
also part of Debian and therefore subject to the Debian Project's rules.

Please help by clarifying which of those positions you hold.

-- 
 \  “One time I went to a drive-in in a cab. The movie cost me |
  `\  ninety-five dollars.” —Steven Wright |
_o__)          |
Ben Finney