Re: [OT] maildir (was Re: procmail and Large File Support)
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 11:54 +1100, Paul Hampson wrote: On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 06:51:32PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 18:19 -0500, sean finney wrote: recent versions of kernel/ext2/ext3 have built-in dirent hashing, which cuts heavily on the many-files penalty. another benefit of maildir is that when you modify a single message, you only need to modify the I thought it was illegal to modify a message. Status: O? I don't know what that means. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I take my children everywhere, but they always find their way back home. Robert Orben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] maildir (was Re: procmail and Large File Support)
On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 20:54 -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 06:51:32PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: Of course, all of these factors depend on the file system used. I am confident somebody could point out a file-system that eliminates many Reiserfs, of course. You meant XFS, right? (Sorry, couldn't be helped. :) Sure, for those *20* GB mbox files. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Rightly hating violence, [pacifists] do not wish to recognise that it is integral to modern society and that their own fine feelings and noble attitudes are all the fruit of injustice backed up by force. They do not want to learn where their incomes come from. George Orwell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] maildir
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 02:05 +, Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 11:54 +1100, Paul Hampson wrote: I thought it was illegal to modify a message. Status: O? I don't know what that means. It means that the message is not marked 'new'. Many MUA's keep track of message flags by inserting this header into the message. Ah. Maildir distinguishes new and already read by whether an email is in the new/ or cur/ folder. Doing a select all, and mark as read on a multi-GB mbox file sounds painful. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. If 1/2 of all US marriages end in divorce, and there are a good number of 3rd, 4th, etc marriages, then more than 1/2 of all 1st marriages will be permanent. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] maildir (was Re: procmail and Large File Support)
On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 22:26 -0500, sean finney wrote: On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 06:51:32PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: That seems awfully huge. In my (Maildir) archive of d-u, the average size is 4,959 bytes. Of course, there are no html mails. Though, even in my Evolution list archive, where there are many more html-mails, the average size is only 6,097. i came up with the number by totalling the mailbox sizes of a 3000 user mail system, and then dividing by the total number of messages in these mailboxes. this generated a number around 13k average message size. i had to do this as part of assessing the feasability of migrating to maildir without reformatting the filesystem. Wow. Lot's of html and lots of attachments. It might also be useful to calculate the mode and standard deviation. Why? Really big attachments *might* be skewing the average. recent versions of kernel/ext2/ext3 have built-in dirent hashing, which cuts heavily on the many-files penalty. another benefit of maildir is that when you modify a single message, you only need to modify the I thought it was illegal to modify a message. marking a message as read is one example. moving a message from one mailbox to another is another example. although it's not modifying the message itself, it's moving its location, which with a crappy imap server can mean re-writing the contents of two mailboxes. *cough* wu- *cough* ;) -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Lead the people with governmental measures and regulate them by law and punishments, and they will avoid wrongdoing, but will have no sense of honor and shame. Lead them by virtue and regulate them by the rules of propriety and they will have a sense of shame and, moreover, set themselves right. Confucius -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: procmail and Large File Support
On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 10:23 +, Colin Watson wrote: On Fri, Feb 25, 2005 at 07:45:47PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 00:53 +0100, Santiago Vila wrote: I have several reports saying procmail does not support mbox folders larger than 2GB. Questions: OT here, but WTF are people smoking, to have 2GB mbox files? Consider a spam-bin folder that you don't split by month or whatever and don't check very often. Maildir? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I don't pretend we have all the answers. But the questions are certainly worth thinking about. Arthur C. Clarke -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mplayer, the time has come
On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 10:36 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Feb 25, giskard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: many people who I know, especially artists who use free software, often use the reproduction in ascii art (new kind of art). The artists you know are not many people and they are not representative of the user base in any way. I just don't understand how Reagan got elected. No one I know voted for him! In other words, just because *you* don't know anyone who uses AA, that doesn't mean that a decent number of people *do* use AA. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Clearly the allies may not like it, and I think that's our great concern - where's the backbone of Russia, where's the backbone of France, where are they in expressing their condemnation of such clearly illegal activity: they're now climbing into a box and they will have enormous difficulty not following up on this if there is not compliance. John Kerry - CNN Crossfire / November 12, 1997 http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0403/S00076.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: procmail and Large File Support
On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 00:53 +0100, Santiago Vila wrote: Hello. I have several reports saying procmail does not support mbox folders larger than 2GB. Questions: OT here, but WTF are people smoking, to have 2GB mbox files? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. LUKE: Is Perl better than Python? YODA: No... no... no. Quicker, easier, more seductive. LUKE: But how will I know why Python is better than Perl? YODA: You will know. When your code you try to read six months from now. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Does this break binary compatability on 64bit architectures?
On Thu, 2005-02-24 at 20:52 +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 05:53:02PM +0300, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote: Hello. Upstream of a library package that I maintain changed function prototypes in the followinf way: -int mailpop3_retr(mailpop3 * f, uint32_t index, char ** result, +int mailpop3_retr(mailpop3 * f, unsigned int index, char ** result, size_t * result_len); That is, 'uint32_t' was changed to 'unsigned int'. Does this break binary compatability on any of debian architectures (so soname change is needed)? Afaik, on all 64 bit arches in debian an int is still 32 bit. Just out of curiosity, why would upstream change a library fun from uint32_t, which will *always* be 32 bits, to int, which may or may not be 32 bits, depending on the arch and compiler? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. $ python -c 'print len(str(2**300))' 903090 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: amd64 is already the 2nd most important arch (WasRe: Let's remove mips, mipsel, s390, ... (Was: [Fwd: Re: GTK+2.0 2.6.2-3 and buildds running out of space])
On Tue, 2005-02-22 at 22:25 -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 03:08:11AM +, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote: [snip] Oops. You jumped from second most common to second most important, as if they're synonymous. Maybe they are to some people, but that's not at all beyond debate: AMD64 will probably be supported by all serious distributions, while Debian is, from what I recall, the *only* way to get a sensible Unix installation on many of the less common systems. NetBSD? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Since when do business goals (profit) come before values, ethics, and decency? Dr. Laura Schlessinger Since the time of the writing of the Old Testament... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Let's remove mips, mipsel, s390, ...
On Mon, 2005-02-21 at 13:36 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 12:16:38PM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: [snip] The problem with s390 is that you can't just go to eBay and buy yourself an s390; or even if you could, that you would still require some hosting for it (a fridge-sized machine isn't exactly cheap to host in a data center, and I'd prefer your electricity bill to contain the machine's power needs over mine), so we rely on s390 owners to donate us a virtual machine on their box, which may or may not use the full CPU power of the machine it's hosted on. What about Hercules? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. GGLX : Gnome GNU Linux X.Org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Debian exim 4 packages suck badly on exim-users@exim.org
On Fri, 2005-02-18 at 21:37 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote: On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 02:15:16PM -0600, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (...) And yes, it does belong there. It could easily add the something like: The single monolithic file is the normal upstream configuration, while the other choice is a Debian innovation that works better with large installations or ISPs needing to support many virtual domains. For newbies, this is the first MTA installation they will have ever seen. Help 'em out, for Pete's sake. Do newbies understand the concept of upstream ? Yes. Or vaguely. Depends on the level of newbieness. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Don't tell me peace has broken out. Bertolt Brecht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 10:54 +0100, GOMBAS Gabor wrote: On Thu, Feb 17, 2005 at 01:04:34AM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: I do believe that the right thing is to be disabled by default. No. Well, I've just checked and mount --move /dev /temp-mount-point mount --bind /dev /where-you-want-it mount --move /temp-mount-point /dev works on a live system (modulo bug #282205), so you can leave it disabled by default and provide a little helper script to turn it on on request. Of course this is a bad idea as long as 2.4 kernels are officially supported, so in sarge the default should be on, and after sarge the default can be switched to off. Or do a boot-time check to see which kernel is running? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. [Hitler] has grasped the falsity of the hedonistic attitude to life. Nearly all western thought since the last war, certainly all 'progressive' thought, has assumed tacitly that human beings desire nothing beyond ease, security and avoidance of pain. George Orwell, 1940, reviewing /Mein Kampf/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 23:16 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 01:05:15PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: carefully remove with appropriate tools. Anyone who goes mucking around their filesystem removing potentially critical compenents without thinking about it and using the proper tools for the job, is not thinking straight. 'rm' is not a proper tool for file removal? Rules to live by: Look before you leap. Measure twice, cut once. Google it! -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Perl is worse than Python because people wanted it worse. Larry Wall, 10/14/1998 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 18:33 -0200, Lucas de Sousa wrote: 'rm' is not a proper tool for file removal? Rules to live by: Look before you leap. Measure twice, cut once. Google it! This is a very good set of rules if all of our intendend users are experts. ^^^ So you are saying that these are *not* good rules for amateurs? :) And even to experts... If I have not readed this here I would look at it. And promptly removed it. (rm -Rf style, yes) Assuming that is unclean installation junk. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Regarding war zones: There's nothing sacrosanct about a hotel with a bunch of journalists in it. Marine Lt. Gen. Bernard E. Trainor (Retired) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 20:11 -0200, Lucas de Sousa wrote: Rules to live by: Look before you leap. Measure twice, cut once. Google it! This is a very good set of rules if all of our intendend users are experts. So you are saying that these are *not* good rules for amateurs? It is But is not wise to develop software that depends on it. Too true. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. Ronald Reagan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 10:11 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Feb 10, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what?, you say. Well, data should only be listed once, not twice. gtkdiskfree sums up all total and free disk space, and having /.dev in there totally distorts the truth. This means that gtkdiskfree is broken, and should be fixed to understand bind mounts. HTH. It does. I'll file bugs against gtkdiskfree pydf. Now that I understand this more (thanks, MdI), I see that df has a way to exclude bind mounts. $ df -T FilesystemType 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda3 ext3 9843308 5430908 3912380 59% / tmpfstmpfs 501936 0501936 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda2 ext3 46668 20415 23844 47% /boot /dev/hda5 reiserfs 2995936 1988176 1007760 67% /home /dev/hda6 ext3 105280504 79520128 20412340 80% /data /dev unknown 9843308 5430908 3912380 59% /.dev none tmpfs5120 2564 2556 51% /dev $ df -x unknown Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda3 9843308 5430908 3912380 59% / tmpfs 501936 0501936 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda246668 20415 23844 47% /boot /dev/hda5 2995936 1987864 1008072 67% /home /dev/hda6105280504 79523152 20409316 80% /data none 5120 2564 2556 51% /dev -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The mass of ignorant Negroes still breed carelessly and disastrously, so that the increase among Negroes, even more than the increase among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear their children properly. W.E.B. DuBois (co-founder of the NAACP), 1932 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 11:29 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) schrieb: On Feb 09, Norbert Tretkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: File a bugreport... /etc/init.d/udev says: Don't. # /.dev is used by /sbin/MAKEDEV to access the real /dev directory. # if you don't like this, remove /.dev/. Remove /.dev/ does not mean rm -rf it. Considering that the line above says to access the real /dev directory, I think that the message is very clear. Considering that not every user knows about bind-mount, and might be confused and think that it is something like a symlink, I think that this is worth some better documentation. I would suggest: # If you don't like this, umount /.dev/ and remove the empty directory. This does not excuse the fact that someone with (a) root access, and (b) without the proper knowledge, went around rm'ing things. Hopefully, this isn't wildly offensive to Germans and Austrians: Der machine is diggen by experten only. Is nicht fur geverken by das dumpkopfen. Das rubber necken sightseenen keepen das cotton- picken hands in das pockets. So relaxen, und vatchen das blinkenlights. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Today, it is not only that our kings do not know mathematics, but our philosophers do not know mathematics. Julius Robert Oppenheimer (1904-1967) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 19:14 +0100, Lech Karol Pawaszek wrote: On Thursday 10 of February 2005 18:22, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Feb 10, Lech Karol Paw?aszek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well... not really... it's something like this: I don't know much about cars, just how to drive one. I looked under the hood, and there were all the messy wires everywhere. And I remember, that one of them wasn't there when i looked there last time, so I cut this one out. OK. People who do this are still morons. To be honest - i don't care what you think about people who cut extra wire from their car. They can be morons or whoever they want to be. I would point out that one might be suprised that a hidden directory appeared in his/hers root directory. What happens next? Well. One could think something like i've been compromised and do a fast remove. Cut and end of the story. Anyway. I know it's a little bit far-fetched story, but it happens sometimes. Ready! Fire! Aim! can have disastrous results. http://www.2theadvocate.com/sk/old_articles/stories/new_safety002.shtml Yoshihiro Hattori was shot to death when he knocked on the door of Peairs' house, mistaking it for the site of a Halloween party. If you are concerned that your box has been breached: - pull the Ethernet cable - turn it off - go to another computer and start Googling -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. What has a tiny brain, a big mouth, and an opinion nobody cares about? You! from Murphy Brown signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 12:18 -0600, John Hasler wrote: Roberto C. Sanchez writes: I said snap it off, not carefully remove with appropriate tools. Anyone who goes mucking around their filesystem removing potentially critical compenents without thinking about it and using the proper tools for the job, is not thinking straight. Rm is the tool that we provide for removing things. And # is what we use for removing things from init scripts. And look before you leap, and measure twice, cut once are *still* wise advice. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety. or something like that Ben Franklin, maybe signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Wed, 2005-02-09 at 17:30 +, Sam Morris wrote: Maykel Moya wrote: I recently realized that I had /.dev, after that, I rm -fr it what rendered my system unbootabled. Can somebody point me to info regarding /.dev. I have dig in /usr/share/doc/udev and Google but found nothing. $ mount | grep \\.dev /dev on /.dev type unknown (rw,bind) When udev starts, your real /dev is bind mounted to /.dev so you can still access it for whatever reason. As you have noticed, wiping it out removes your real /dev, which means that your system won't be able to boot up to the point where it would normally start udev. :( Some argue that this is one of the places where the old devfs is superior to udev. ;) One thing I do know is that traditional apps like df (and anything that uses stat(), I guess) don't know about /.dev, and so return false information: $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda39843308 5428016 3915272 59% / tmpfs 501936 0501936 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda2 46668 20415 23844 47% /boot /dev/hda52995936 1790220 1205716 60% /home /dev/hda6 105280504 78681360 21251108 79% /data /dev 9843308 5428016 3915272 59% /.dev none5120 2564 2556 51% /dev -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I take my children everywhere, but they always find their way back home. Robert Orben signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Wed, 2005-02-09 at 12:43 -0800, Ben Pfaff wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One thing I do know is that traditional apps like df (and anything that uses stat(), I guess) don't know about /.dev, and so return false information: $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda39843308 5428016 3915272 59% / tmpfs 501936 0501936 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda2 46668 20415 23844 47% /boot /dev/hda52995936 1790220 1205716 60% /home /dev/hda6 105280504 78681360 21251108 79% /data /dev 9843308 5428016 3915272 59% /.dev none5120 2564 2556 51% /dev It's not really false, it's just that /.dev is a subtree of / and so shows the same information as / does. To me, reporting the same information 2 times means that one of them should not be there. These programs report duplicate info: df pydf gtkdiskfree So what?, you say. Well, data should only be listed once, not twice. gtkdiskfree sums up all total and free disk space, and having /.dev in there totally distorts the truth. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. There never was a good war or a bad peace. Benjamin Franklin Well, I think I have to disagree with Mr. Franklin... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: what is /.udev for ?
On Wed, 2005-02-09 at 19:24 -0600, Steve Greenland wrote: On 09-Feb-05, 19:12 (CST), Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what?, you say. Well, data should only be listed once, not twice. gtkdiskfree sums up all total and free disk space, and having /.dev in there totally distorts the truth. If you don't have a fs mounted, df won't show it either. Is it lying then, too? Df et. al. show all the mounted filesystems. If the same filesystem is mounted twice, then it shows it twice. It's a PITA to have to manually subtract out /.dev. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/02/msg00402.html For people who want MAKEDEV to keep updating the static /dev. It's not the most essential thing in the world, so should be dropped, and added when needed. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. You're a good example of why some animals eat their young. Jim Samuels signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#293572: RFP: lpr-via-http -- a web frontend for lpr queue monitoring and management
On Fri, 2005-02-04 at 14:06 +0100, Mathieu Roy wrote: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: lpr-via-http Version : 1.0 Upstream Author : Mathieu Roy [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL or Web page : https://gna.org/projects/lpr-via-http/ * License : GPL Description : a web frontend for lpr queue monitoring and management. Long Description: - LPR via HTTP purpose is to provide a web frontend for lpr queue monitoring and management. The point is to provide to users a simple and centralized way to monitor an lp (printer) queue information of a distant host and eventually to remove jobs. Acknowledgment: It is probably best to use desktop environment application (provided by KDE, or GNOME). But currently (February 2005), it is not easy to get these tools to work correctly, especially with a distant lpr server. LPR via HTTP depends on a web server with Perl support (mod_perl advised) and LPRng (not tested with the old LPR). It assumes that the Should it then be named lprng-via-http? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Millions of Chinese speak Chinese, and it's not hereditary... Dr. Dean Edell signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#292831: udev: udev prevents X from beeing started
On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 11:43 +0100, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote: Hi Marco, On Sunday, 30 Jan 2005, Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 30, Martin Zobel-Helas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This breaks unrelated stuff here, so please fix it. I'll wait for your patch. What about not enableing udev per default? Lets say, you would add a /etc/default/udev and add a UDEV_ENBALED switch, which is disabled per default. Add a remark about reading /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian before enableing UDEV_ENABLE. This would result in the user did it himself and not in causes X problems by installation. Unfortunately, GNOME depends on hal, and hal depends on udev. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. If thine enemy offend thee, give his child a drum. Chinese Curse signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#292831: udev: udev prevents X from beeing started
On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 15:58 +0100, Christoph Hellwig wrote: On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 12:45:42PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, Ron Johnson wrote: Unfortunately, GNOME depends on hal, and hal depends on udev. If it does indeed depend on udev, how does it work under kernel 2.4 at all? Because that statement is utter bullshit. There's a single and optional gnome component that wants to use hal. A single and optional gnome component that is very, very useful. But yes, you *are* correct that gnome-volume-manager is optional. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The first stage of fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power Mussolini signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 09:32 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. They are also supposed to educate their children. Yes, but it's the job of *parents* to do that. If you want me to do it for you, you'll have to pay me. They refers to Parents. Note the their children part. How could you not see that? Your anger must be numbing your brain, because (unless you home- school your kids) of course parents *also* pay someone else to teach their children. What do you think K-12 and University are? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Why jobs are being out-sourced to 2nd 3rd world nations: Unions and Liberalism. Unions for a general raising of wages, and Liberalism for the creation of The Nanny State, which creates a *relatively* high minimum wage, and *lots* of well meaning regulations that drive up employment costs. Lastly, Unions, Liberalism and it's offspring the Me Generation have destroyed the educational system, at the same time that 2nd 3rd world nations are pumping out millions of highly educated people who can live like princes on a fraction of US or Western European wages. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 13:49 +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:22:13AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. More freedom of choice? You can choose to install it or not to install it. Once you install it, you examine it and decide what you want to be activated! That was the final consensus: an /etc/dosage config file BTW, if they are out of curiosity, they can wget ; ar x ; tar zxvf ; cd ; exec dosage-porn, which might be of more interest once they know it contains $FORBIDEN stuff. As I said in another post, there will come a time when they can do that. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The average girl would rather have beauty than brains because she knows that the average man can see much better than he can think. Ladies' Home Journal signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 15:01 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: Jesus, On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 01:49:20PM +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:22:13AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. More freedom of choice? You can choose to install it or not to install it. Once you install it, you examine it and decide what you want to be activated! Remember that Ron is from the Deep South, where freedom of choice means you must provide me with an option that gives me the maximum benefit of your efforts without impinging my moral standards, otherwise you are violating my freedom of choice. Please don't feed the redn^W troll. Please don't feed the self-righteous know-it-all. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. It is bad to be oppressed by a minority, but it is worse to be oppressed by a majority. Lord Acton, 1907 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 22:31 +0100, David Weinehall wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 10:32:13PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 03:38 +0100, Uwe A. P. Wuerdinger wrote: Ron Johnson schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: [-snip-] [snip] Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. Says who (well, except you)? *Your* parents. And, to take an extreme example, the parents of every 5 yo who won't let him go see some hyper-violent R-rated(*) movie. (*) In the USA, an R (Restricted) movie says that children under age 17 are not allowed in without an adult. They are also supposed to educate their children. Can't disagree with this one though. But there's always the saying: Do as I say, not as I do. And it's always a mistake... Bull. Happens all the time. Quick example: I cross the street by myself all the time. My children, however, can't. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. GGLX : Gnome GNU Linux X.Org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[OT] Re: NEW queue and ftp-master approval
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 01:40 -0600, Joe Wreschnig wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 01:06 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 07:39 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 22:28 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] have to be done for NEW packages, e.g. inform some U.S. government agency about the new deb, add an override entry into the db. The only Could you flesh that out a little? Details were a bit scetchy there on irc too. I would rather have an ftp-master say what is actualy going on then repeat speculations. Sounds(*) like the paranoid rantings of a W-hater. Sounds like the nationalistic rantings of someone ignorant of US law. H - I love my (imperfect) country. - The Federal Register is Very Large. - I've been to many other countries But as to the need to inform some bureaucracy: yes, I was wrong in my characterization. (But then, Clinton never did anything worth knowing anyway, did he?) What does that have to do with irrational hatred of W? (NOTE: I stopped saying that I hated The Clintons when I worked for someone who really *did* hate The Clintons. She was *scary* when she started talking politics...) But since this is way OT, any replies should be off-list. It's not hard to find information about the measures Debian has taken for crypto export compliance, which do involve sending information a government mailbox (albeit one that probably goes unread) about our exports: http://lwn.net/2002/0328/a/deb-crypto.php3 -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. If you disregard people's motives, it becomes much harder to foresee their actions. George Orwell signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: apply to NM? ha!
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:48 +0100, Ingo Juergensmann wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:17:32AM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: I wish more women would join Debian and the lists. My experience is that usually there's not that much aggressiveness when there are women around. That usualy only works if you recognise them as females and can lead to quite the oposite as well sometimes. :) Oh, you mean we should use video mails or such? Now that's a scary thought... -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. People had to leave everything, from photos of their grandparents to cars. Their clothes, cash and passports has been changed by state authorities. This is incredible, people lived, had homes, country houses, garages, motorcyles, cars, money, friends and relatives, people had their life, each in own niche and then in a matter of hours this world fall in pieces and everything goes to dogs and after few hours trip with some army vehicle one stands under some shower, washing away radiation and then step in a new life, naked with no home, no friends, no money, no past and with very doubtful future. http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/page14.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:04 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 25 January 2005 04:51, Sam Watkins wrote: Dosage / mainline has a feature to download all supported comics, so it is quite possible for someone (perhaps a child) to stumble across this one by accident, as I did. Probably nearly everyone who tries dosage will want to see the range of comics available. While I am aware that this is another quality, I just want to point out, that fortunes has mitigated this risk by splitting off the offensive fortunes into a sperate package. Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of those comics at all. http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. No matter how hard women work, train, excersize (and some of the woment in the Olympics were *muscular*), lose body fat, or get Title IX money, (the population of athletic) women will *never* be faster, stronger or better at sports(*) than (the population of athletic) men. (*Excluding small sports like darts.) It's just how men and women have evolved. Deal with it. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. Squid? And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. What other evidence do you have that they are terrorists, other than that they trained in these camps? 17-Sep-2002 Katie Couric to an FBI agent regarding the 5 men arrested near Buffalo NY signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. What does having root access have to do with this? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Americans hate foreign policy because Americans hate foreigners, because they *are* foreigners, and came to this country to get away from the bad things. P.J. O'rourke, 2004-06-25, Fox News Channel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The graduate with a Science degree asks, Why does it work? The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, How does it work? The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, How much will it cost? The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, Do you want fries with that? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 05:57 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. What does having root access have to do with this? oops, wrong post. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout. A MODEST PROPOSAL FOR PREVENTING THE CHILDREN OF POOR PEOPLE IN IRELAND FROM BEING A BURDEN TO THEIR PARENTS OR COUNTRY signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:09 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. These parents shouldn't give their children root access to the computers in the family. If they do give them root access, there's no way to prevent them from downloading such things, anyway (except perhaps some mandatory filtering proxy). What does giving them root access have to do with this? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. He that would live in peace and at ease must not speak all he knows or all he sees. Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 13:46 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. Squid? And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) Try it out and get pregnant? I started looking at porn 30 years ago, and haven't gotten pregnant yet. Amazingly, porn != coitus. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The peace dividend is peace. Dan Quayle signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:55 +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:34:38PM +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Up until a certain age the parents should be responsible for keeping control on the machine itself, the software it has installed and the programs they can use/install, including the ports and domains they have access to. [snip] At no time Debian should be censoring any content for innapropiate. Every single bit of information has an audience which might feel offended by it. So help us parents keep control by splitting possibly inappropriate material into separate packages. Like fortune does. Then all the bits are there, and parents have a modicum of control. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. He was about as useful in a crisis as a sheep. Dorothy Eden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:04 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: | * Ron Johnson [snip] Then perhaps they should get to see porn if they want to? Or filter URLs in your gateway or whatever -- I really don't see why Debian should suddenly become a distribution where all the sharp hooks you can cut yourself on are removed. This sounds a bit like the gun control debate. I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice round scissors that are suitable for children). Am I making any sense to you? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. All of the reporting about Laci Peterson Michael Jackson reminds me of the Don Henley song Dirty Laundry: Can we do the operation? Is the head dead yet? You know, the boys in the newsroom got a running bet. Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:05 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: Op di, 25-01-2005 te 06:00 -0600, schreef Ron Johnson: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. So you want Debian to supervise your kids every waking minute of their lives instead? Did I say that? No. Making it easier for me to give them age-appropriate comics (by having fortune-like multiple packages) isn't too much, is it? Yes, it is indeed possible to supervise them every waking minute of their lives. You should thus focus your efforts on making them understand why $ACTION is wrong, instead of trying to prevent them from doing $ACTION. To minors, the forbidden act is tempting; the wrong act is not. But if MadamAndEve is not on the list of supported comics that I've installed for dosage, then there's no need to explain. Parenting is already busy enough trying to help them understand why any number of $ACTIONs are wrong, why would I want to add any more? NOTE that I thing that packaging dosage is a *good* idea! It would be better, though, if the the supported-cartoon list could be broken up into multiple packages. That's all I'm saying. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The chief excitement in a woman's life is spotting women who are fatter than she is. Helen Rowland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 13:59 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: Op di, 25-01-2005 te 04:30 -0600, schreef Ron Johnson: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:04 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of those comics at all. http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. Oh, are we turning into a children's distribution now? I hope not. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. Are you one of them? If not, please stop theorizing about hypothetical users that might not even exist. Yes. And I want $YOU to be able to install dosage with support for all the comics, and $ME to be able to install dosage with only a limited number of comics. $YOU get what $YOU want, and $ME gets what $ME wants. Debian -- The Universal Operating System -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The difference between drunken sailors and Congressmen is that drunken sailors spend their own money. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:48 +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 04:30:08AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. As a future parent and atheist I conside offensive and inappropiate the following material: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache search bible | wc -l 16 Please, kindly remove them from the archive. /mode type=irony Dude, get a grip. You have the option to *not* install them on your machine. John Ashcroft is not holding a gun to your head making you install it. I want to have more options than just to do or do not install dosage. What's wrong with that? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Oh, great altar of passive entertainment, bestow upon me thy discordant images at such speed as to render linear thought impossible Calvin, regarding TV signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 15:25 +0100, Jorge Bernal wrote: El Martes 25 Enero 2005 11:30, Ron Johnson escribió: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. another thing: Given A,B where A=parent(B) if ((A have not installed dosage) (B hasn't root access)) B can't access dosage just another more thing: Maybe I should say I agree to not include it in debian, in order to enhace kids creativity (sic). If you provide them a porn-downloader script, they may become just plain porn consumers. However, if they have to download porn by hand, someday they'll program an script, and we'll see another flame here :P PD: a parent can't pretend Debian to watch their kids. If they have to get something they'll just get it with or without the Debian help. A little proof: $ cat ~/bin/pget | grep -v ^# | egrep -v ^$ | wc -l 44 And it just depends on sh, sed and wget, should we remove those...? When he gets old enough to start writing scripts to auto-d/l porn, well... that will call for a different set of parenting skills. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The only thing that changed on 9/11 is that the dynamite that got stuck up our ass blew our heads out of the sand. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 15:02 +, Will Newton wrote: On Tuesday 25 Jan 2005 14:59, Ron Johnson wrote: You have the option to *not* install them on your machine. John Ashcroft is not holding a gun to your head making you install it. I want to have more options than just to do or do not install dosage. What's wrong with that? 1. File a wishlist big against dosage if one does not already exist. It isn't in the system, yet. 2. Get on with your life. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The enemy thinks and plans and strategizes, too. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 16:44 +0100, Jorge Bernal wrote: El Martes 25 Enero 2005 15:42, Ron Johnson escribió: But if MadamAndEve is not on the list of supported comics that I've installed for dosage, then there's no need to explain. Parenting is already busy enough trying to help them understand why any number of $ACTIONs are wrong, why would I want to add any more? what about adding en /etc/dosagerc with a forbidden_strips=... ? Whatever way the maintainer thinks is best. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. 4 degrees from Vladimir Putin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 17:35 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds a bit like the gun control debate. I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice round scissors that are suitable for children). Am I making any sense to you? No, not at all. What's the difference between dosage, being installable only by root, and dosage-boring plus dosage-offensive, being installable only by root? If you care so much about your childrens' computer usage, for sure you won't install any software without proper checking that it is okay on the family computer? We're both saying the same thing. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Welfare Democracies will only work, in the long term, if the recipients of the wealth given to them by the earners use that wealth to become earners themselves. Unfortunately, only a small % of recipients seem to be availing themselves of the opportunity. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:27 -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Ron Johnson dijo [Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:24:57AM -0600]: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Up until a certain age the parents should be responsible for keeping control on the machine itself, the software it has installed and the programs they can use/install, including the ports and domains they have access to. [snip] At no time Debian should be censoring any content for innapropiate. Every single bit of information has an audience which might feel offended by it. So help us parents keep control by splitting possibly inappropriate material into separate packages. Like fortune does. Then all the bits are there, and parents have a modicum of control. ...Ok, so we should put mozilla into this category? Hell, it's much easier to type www.sex.com into the address bar or to google for naked babes than it is to install this package. There will come a time when he will be *interested* in such things, at which time he'll try such tactics. And use Pan to look for the a.b.p.e groups. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the meantime, however, he has no concept of it, and I'd like to keep it that way until his (and her) mind develops enough to show such interest. Following fortune's model, this is what I'm thinking: dosage dosage-comics dosage-comics-off See there's no censorship here... -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. But a much bigger business is selling anti-spam software. This is a billion dollar market, and it is rapidly growing. Any simple and effective solution against spam would defeat revenues and drive several companies into bankrupt, would make consultants jobless. ... Have a single, simple, and permanent solution to the problem and - boom - this billion dollar market is dead. That's one of the reasons why people are expected to live with spam. They have to live with it to make them buy anti-spam software. Content filters are perfect products to keep this market alive. Hadmut Danisch signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 21:26 +0200, Tristan Seligmann wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 20:15:29 +0100, Wim De Smet wrote: The OP wants the offensive parts split off in a separate package. He doesn't want dosage removed from the archive. And splitting does indeed change something. If his kids are not root they cannot install the offensive part. They might find some way around the restrictions (eg. download them directly thru a proxy or something) but this will raise Firing up a normal web browser to view Sexy Losers with is not much harder than using Dosage to download it. This doesn't take away from the idea of having a separate package, of course. When $SON gets old enough to think about such things, then, yes, $SON can easily use Mozilla and Pan to get such things. The key part is old enough to think about such things. He is not, yet. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. A busy mother makes slothful daughters. Unknown signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:10 -0800, D. Starner wrote: How is this going to help parents? I don't want my future kids to read Something Positive; it's not pornographic, I don't recall nudity, but that level of cold-hearted cynicism is not something I want my kids exposed to, at least not at a young age. Should we set this up to only grab Garfield, Peanuts, and Calvin and Hobbes? Or accept that there's no bright line here, and that every parent should take the time to examine the comics themselves? Yes, they should. And /etc/dosage/disabled will allow them to then do something after they have examined the comics. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. Thomas Jefferson signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 01:46 +0200, Tristan Seligmann wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 17:15:00 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: Following fortune's model, this is what I'm thinking: dosage dosage-comics dosage-comics-off See there's no censorship here... Where do you draw the line, though? Some people would consider Sexy Losers the only offensive comic supported by Dosage, while others would probably consider half of the supported comics offensive or unsuitable for their children; someone mentioned Something Positive elsewhere, for example, a comic that hadn't even vaguely occurred to me as one people might object to. Which is why, when someone mentioned /etc/dosage/disabled, I said it was a good idea. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Why should we not accept all in favor of woman suffrage to our platform and association even though they be rabid pro-slavery Democrats. Susan B. Anthony, _History_of_Woman_Suffrage_ http://www.ifeminists.com/introduction/essays/introduction.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Slightly Off Topic: Laptops for Debian
On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 12:58 +1100, Rob Weir wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 03:58:55PM -0600, Jacob Schroeder said On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:31:53 + Ben Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm looking for a new laptop, and wondered what DDs used. I might go for the Apple 15 powerbook, but I'm not sure. My apologies for this slightly off-topic post... I hear iBooks have a much better value for the money. Not just from a iBook's are quite solid little machines, but be aware that you cannot use their internal wireless under Linux. Same with the powerbooks, but you can at least use a pcmcia card there (on the 15 and 17 ones). One issue, though, is w32codecs. Is there a PPC analog to w32codecs? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I take my children everywhere, but they always find their way back home. Robert Orben signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 03:38 +0100, Uwe A. P. Wuerdinger wrote: Ron Johnson schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: [-snip-] And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) Looks like an other round of underestimating children and censorship is coming up. Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. They are also supposed to educate their children. The balance between censorship and education is different at every age and for each child. And, for a given child at a given age, the censorship/education balance is different for each kind of topic. 1. Kids are smarter than most of us think. When they are not interested in (say porn) they'll ignore it and or complain about it. 2. If they are interested they outsmart most parents anyway[1]. [1] Whena 13 year old starts to ask smart questions about how that web censor stuff in china works one should think twice about explaining it or et least get a foot in the door for a share of the money he'll make by selling his classmates anonymizing service. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. All machines, no matter how complex, are considered to be based on 6 simple elements: the lever, the pulley, the wheel and axle, the screw, the wedge and the inclined plane. Marilyn Vos Savant signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: NEW queue and ftp-master approval
On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 22:28 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] have to be done for NEW packages, e.g. inform some U.S. government agency about the new deb, add an override entry into the db. The only Could you flesh that out a little? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Why do we have to hide from the police, Daddy? Because we use vi, son. They use emacs. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: NEW queue and ftp-master approval
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 07:39 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 22:28 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] have to be done for NEW packages, e.g. inform some U.S. government agency about the new deb, add an override entry into the db. The only Could you flesh that out a little? Details were a bit scetchy there on irc too. I would rather have an ftp-master say what is actualy going on then repeat speculations. Sounds(*) like the paranoid rantings of a W-hater. * But, of course, even paranoids have enemies too, rarely... -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading. Unknown signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[OT] observational behavioral studies (was Re: apply to NM? ha!)
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 07:38 +0100, Ingo Juergensmann wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:26:13AM +, Helen Faulkner wrote: [snip] I wish more women would join Debian and the lists. My experience is that usually there's not that much aggressiveness when there are women around. Until *lots* of women join, and then there just as much aggression as before, but in a different format. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. An economist is a man who states the obvious in terms of the incomprehensible. Alfred A. Knopf signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: rudeness in general
On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 19:14 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: Op ma, 10-01-2005 te 06:39 -0500, schreef David Mandelberg: [snip] 'RTFM' means Go read the documentation, that's what it's for. I personally find it far more rude to go on a mailing list, ask for the Do you *really* think that RTFM means Go read the documentation, that's what it's for? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I need an expert on the pain I'm goin' thru, so I keep George on the ol' turn table 'till I'm over you... Mark Chesnutt, Just Playin' Possum signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: If you really want Free firmware...
On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 17:43 +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote: On 14/12/2004 Chasecreek Systemhouse wrote: Personally I'm not buying it. Hardware costs what it does for the same reasons as software -- to advance the state of the art and to create better hardware (or software as the case may be.) I personally don't think that the price of products in a capitalistic society is to advance creation of better hardware in general. it might be, that other reasons take into account here, as most people who determine the price of products don't know much about the products themselves. The *price* of product has *nothing* to do with how much it *cost* to create. The price that someone is willing to pay for an item is a function of it's *perceived* value to the purchaser. That's why, unfortunately, sales and marketing are so important in capitalist/free market systems: use S M to convince the consumer that they need the product, and will thus pay more than, for example, cost of goods sold + 8% profit. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. My husband and I are either going to buy a dog or have a child. We can't decide whether to ruin our carpet or ruin our lives. Rita Rudner signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: If you really want Free firmware...
On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 14:42 -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: The *price* of product has *nothing* to do with how much it *cost* to create. In a purely competitive market the price of goods would approach their cost. The system of intellectual property is a barrier that prevents certain goods from becoming commodities. There are other mechanisms, such as branding, that create perceptual rather than legal barriers. If consumers have adequate knowledge of all goods and services, then yes, the price of goods would approach their cost. Yet, even if there were no IP issues, consumers still wouldn't have adequate knowledge of all goods and services. Do you have time to research *every* good and service that you and your S.O. purchase? Neither do we. Branding is what Sales Marketing (which I already mentioned) do. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork. Mae West signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: udev.rules configuration
On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 21:59 +0100, Rainer Dorsch wrote: Hi Marco, I am using udev since a few weeks for having dedicted mount points for usb devices. I added Add site-specific rules to: /etc/udev/rules.d/10-local.rules man udev for the CONFIGURATION udev_rules section: The name of the udev rules file or directory to look for files with the suffix .rules. All rule files are read in lexical order. The default value is /etc/udev/rules.d/. ## USB disk BUS=scsi, SYSFS_vendor=USB 2.0*, NAME=usbdisk%n ## Pentax Optio 33S disk BUS=scsi, SYSFS_vendor=Pentax, NAME=optio%n which works fine. It is somewhat annoying that with each upgrade of udev, I get a conflict with this configuration file. Certainly, I want all the enhancements of your new version. What I do then, I answer get the package maintainers version and I add my few lines again and again. I am just wondering, if there is a better way to do what I intend. If not, do you think, it is worth to open a wishlist bug for that? Another side effect of udev I noticed is that it seems to hide /dev/isdninfo so I mount the udev file system now to /udev instead of /dev, such that other tools can still use /dev/isdninfo. For a complete bug report, see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=277315 Thanks for keeping the package uptodate, even if I have to edit udev.rules frequently ;-) -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Pretty much, we've killed off the dumb ones, and we've got the smart ones left. A US soldier, regarding insurgents in Iraq, 2004-11-09 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Sun, 2004-12-12 at 02:18 +0100, Robert Millan wrote: On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 01:06:11PM +0900, Clemens Schwaighofer wrote: True, the Koran just invites to kill your ennemy bloodily, that's very different... Thats wrong, thats just an interpretion. I wonder how could text be written such that the question wether it invites to kill someone bloodily is open to interpretation. Are there other places in the Koran that say different things? An example from the Bible: the Old Testament says that homosexuals must be stoned to death, but many times, it says, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The true Christian response, *IMHO*, would be, love the sinner, hate the sin, since ROMANS 13:9 QUOTE 9 For the commandments, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet, and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. /QUOTE But, exegesis is a thorny topic, and really shouldn't be on d-devel. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. There's nothing wrong with the average person that a good psychiatrist can't exaggerate. Toronto Star Newspaper signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Sun, 2004-12-12 at 22:24 +1300, Philip Charles wrote: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Ron Johnson wrote: On Sun, 2004-12-12 at 02:18 +0100, Robert Millan wrote: On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 01:06:11PM +0900, Clemens Schwaighofer wrote: True, the Koran just invites to kill your ennemy bloodily, that's very different... Thats wrong, thats just an interpretion. I wonder how could text be written such that the question wether it invites to kill someone bloodily is open to interpretation. Are there other places in the Koran that say different things? An example from the Bible: the Old Testament says that homosexuals must be stoned to death, Nonsence, people were to be stoned for many things, but homosexuality was not one of them. You're right. It doesn't say stoned. However, they shall surely be put to death, is, how shall we say, a superset of stoned to death. Therefore, I was close enough. Leviticus 20 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Anyone who thinks that religion is Sooo Eeevil should remember: - The number of Soviet citizens that the religion is the opiate of the masses Soviets killed or let starve is between 20M and 60M. - The number of Chinese killed or allowed to starve by the Chinese Communists is estimated to be as many as 66M. Now *that* is True Evil. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: amd64: ftp-masters questions
On Sun, 2004-12-12 at 00:05 +0100, Santiago Vila wrote: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader wrote: My recollection is that all technical concerns were addressed and that the port would go in after the mirror issues will be sorted out (which will happen some point after sarge). Why after sarge? Nobody knows when sarge will be released. Exactly. If Sarge had been released in October or November, that would be one thing, but no one knows when it will be released. Thus, IMO, the AMD64 gcc-3.4 branch should be moved into Sarge. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The United States is not a nation to which peace is a necessity. Grover Cleveland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Linux Core Consortium
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 21:40 -0600, John Goerzen wrote: On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 07:08:48PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: Bruce Perens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that tying core Debian packages to the Red Hat boat anchor is a horrible, horrible idea. I tend to agree with sentiments like this, but didn't Bruce mention that we could participate in this organization even if we didn't take their packages? That is, perhaps we could influence the direction to a more useful one? If that is the case, it seems zero risk to me. Yes, this is the bottom line: it does not negatively impact Debian for (for example) the DPL to go talk/email/IRC with the LCC representatives. If Debian's concerns can't be satisfactorily resolved, then Debian says thanks, but no thanks, and continues down it's current path. It's *that* simple. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Vegetarian - an old Indian word meaning 'lousy hunter'. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Linux Core Consortium
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 23:15 -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: John Goerzen dijo [Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 09:40:51PM -0600]: I think that tying core Debian packages to the Red Hat boat anchor is a horrible, horrible idea. I tend to agree with sentiments like this, but didn't Bruce mention that we could participate in this organization even if we didn't take their packages? That is, perhaps we could influence the direction to a more useful one? If that is the case, it seems zero risk to me. Then we would be non-participants, we would be just bitchers, telling everybody how fucked-up their process and QA are. We would gain nothing, and we would lose as everybody would say that Debian refuses to play together with the guys after giving an initial 'yes'. And no, no ISV would certify Debian just because Debian sits and bitches. There are diplomatic ways to say, your processes and QA are all fucked up. We'll just have to send someone who knows how to do that. :) -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. If you don't know how to do something, you don't know how to do it with a computer. Anonymous signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Fri, 2004-12-10 at 22:48 +1100, Russell Coker wrote: On Thursday 09 December 2004 14:06, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're coming very late to the conversation. A District Attorney angling for higher office or someone in the Morality Police (think Saudi Arabia) or a petty member of the CCP might not care about there will be conflicts like this. Let's forget about Saudi law. Saudi law is something for people who live there to worry about not for those of us who live in the free world. It is. if we want people in Arabia to be able to possess Debian disks. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Pacifism can act more effectively against democracy than for it. George Orwell, 1941 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: LCC and blobs
On Fri, 2004-12-10 at 15:21 -0800, Brian Nelson wrote: Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 01:20:32PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Dec 09, Bruce Perens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Then we might as well remove the whole kernel from main, since most devices depend on a non-free firmware blob to operate. Why does it Most ? Or are you stretching beyond reason, to include stuff like the BIOS, which isn't in the kernel? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach him to fish, he gets mad at you for making him have to work so hard. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: SVG icons
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 15:49 +0900, Mike Hommey wrote: On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 09:16:06PM -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that's a may and a should, not a must. IIRC they only trigger lintian warnings, not errors. If I tell my son, You may not go play in the rain., he knows that he can't go play in the rain. OT If you tell your som, You must not go play in the rain, it's the best way to be sure he'll be doing it ;) /OT The best way to be sure he'll *want* to do it. He knows the consequences of disobeying a direct order can be unpleasant. Thus, may in this context is ambiguous. Should is only slightly less so. See RFC 2119. I think usages of may, should, must and stuff should follow these explanations. There's an RFC for words??? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Clueless tech journalists drive geeks crazy signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Linux Core Consortium
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 14:33 -0600, John Hasler wrote: Daniel Jacobowitz writes: Using binaries from LCC would also run against the Debian principle of always building Debian packages from their source before uploading them
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 19:57 +1100, Russell Coker wrote: On Wednesday 08 December 2004 07:42, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fortunately, though, pictures of naked dogs are *not* considered to be appealing to prurient interests. Unless, *maybe*, a hyper- horny 13 year old boy is seeing a picture of dogs copulating, and not in the context of some scientific value, i.e., a text book. Even in that case, though, the boy would probably be told to wash his hand and stop being a pervert. So you have no objections to bestiality web sites then? How does a picture of dogs copulating get morphed into bestiality? When such pictures appear on porn sites they are presumably used in the same manner as other porn (not for scientific or artistic purposes). [snip] Are you are purposefully misinterpreting what I wrote? When you give an example of a boy needing to wash his hands after seeing a picture of dogs copulating you are obviously referring to dog-copulation porn pictures. I was interpreting it in EXACTLY the same way as you. But still, a picture of dogs copulating is *not* bestiality, and I never inferred that the picture would be on a porn site (there's more to life than than the internet, after all), so I'm confused as to made the leap. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. If you wish for peace be ready for war. Proverb To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace. George Washington signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 09:31 -0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 12:00:14AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 11:17:46AM -0300, Fabricio Cannini wrote: --- Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: Am 2004-12-07 10:39:42, schrieb Fabricio Cannini: [snip] What about non-US? If some packages can be distributed from only some mirrors outside US, why shouldn't some packages be distributed only from some countries where they are legal to be distributed? Or are there only two countries for Debian? US (main) and non-US? The US isn't the only country that has various forms of content restrictions. Thus, non-US isn't sufficient. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Peace is not only better than war, but infinitely more arduous. George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 13:34 -0800, Scott Robinson wrote: If my wife saw my son with these pictures on a disk that I gave him, she'd take a frying pan and beat me dead. And what would she say about any number of other iffy packages? bible-kjv? Probably nothing because it isn't offensive to her. fortunes-off? Because hot-babe uses graphics it's worse? Definitely fortunes-off, too. As long as Debian is a distribution - a precomposed packaging of as much software as possible - then there will be conflicts like this. You're coming very late to the conversation. A District Attorney angling for higher office or someone in the Morality Police (think Saudi Arabia) or a petty member of the CCP might not care about there will be conflicts like this. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I'll call you women instead of girls, just so long as I get paid more than you do. Tom Lehrer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Is Debian a common carrier? Was: package rejection
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 10:31 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Tim Cutts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] To be honest I really don't see what the problem is here. Content which is illegal to distribute in pretty much any significant market should be kept off the first CD, and probably shouldn't be in main. So that means that reference to US law certainly is relevant, since the United States is a significant market. Never mind, the principle you suggest is not Debian's current rule, and if you want it to be adopted, you should follow the normal way, not just declare that it is somehow obviously the right rule. So how about you take the discussion to debian-project where it belongs, and prepare a suitable GR or other policy instrument to change our policies, or lobby the release manager, or do one of those things? Debian isn't Soviet Russia or the PRC or pre-war Afghanistan. Calmly discussing peoples' should beliefs is a worthy task. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. [QUOTE] Casey asked Johnson if doctors tell a woman that the abortion procedure they might use includes sucking the brain out of the skull. I don't think we would use those terms, Johnson said. I think we would probably use a term like 'decompression of the skull' or 'reducing the contents of the skull.' The judge responded, Make it nice and palatable so that they wouldn't understand what it's all about? Johnson, though, said doctors merely want to be sensitive. [/QUOTE] http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=519ncid=519e=7; u=/ap/20040401/ap_on_re_us/abortion_lawsuits_31 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: SVG icons
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 11:55 +0900, Mike Hommey wrote: On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 11:49:49PM +0100, Bill Allombert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The authoritative document is the menu _manual_: (/usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz), section 3.7 An extract from that section: Debian package maintainers should ensure that any icons they include for use in the Debian menus conform to the following points: 1. The icons should be in xpm format. 2. The icons may not be larger than 32x32 pixels, although smaller sizes are ok. Note that's a may and a should, not a must. IIRC they only trigger lintian warnings, not errors. If I tell my son, You may not go play in the rain., he knows that he can't go play in the rain. Thus, may in this context is ambiguous. Should is only slightly less so. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Status of this ITP?
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 11:30 -0600, Steve Greenland wrote: On 08-Dec-04, 11:15 (CST), Luis R. Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Get off your ass. Ah. I see. Courtesy is not your strong point. His parents must not have taught him manners. Or he knows that he can't get beat up by people who don't see him face-to-face. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. An ad run by the NEA (the US's biggest public school TEACHERS UNION) in the Spring and Summer of 2003 asks a teenager if he can find sodium and *chloride* in the periodic table of the elements. And they wonder why people think public schools suck... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Linux Core Consortium
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 17:41 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: Bruce, On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 04:49:13PM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: [snip] I'm skeptical to begin with of the benefits LCC has to offer Debian -- being bound not just to an external *standard*, but to an external *implementation* requires sacrificing autonomy in areas that have been historically important to Debian, such as timely security fixes and arch-specific fixes for architectures not covered by the LCC -- and the wording from your original message set off a very large red flag for me besides. Can you provide pointers to concrete LCC proposals of library renames, so that I can get comfortable with the technical specifics of what's really at issue here? You are way overreacting. Reread this, the last paragraph of BP's OP, a few times. I would not suggest that Debian commit to using LCC packages at this time. We should participate for a while and see how many changes we'd have to make and whether the project works for us. But I think we should be at the table and in a position to in- fluence the project. The other members are willing to have us on those terms. Note the part about I would not suggest that Debian commit to using LCC packages at this time. If Debian decides that it would not be in Debian's best interest to follow the LCC implementation, then guess what: it doesn't have to... -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. What other evidence do you have that they are terrorists, other than that they trained in these camps? 17-Sep-2002 Katie Couric to an FBI agent regarding the 5 men arrested near Buffalo NY signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Status of this ITP?
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 19:36 -0800, Brian Nelson wrote: On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 09:26:00PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 11:30 -0600, Steve Greenland wrote: On 08-Dec-04, 11:15 (CST), Luis R. Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Get off your ass. Ah. I see. Courtesy is not your strong point. His parents must not have taught him manners. Or he knows that he can't get beat up by people who don't see him face-to-face. Here, go find him: http://www.acs.rutgers.edu/directory/ He's half-way across the continent. Not worth the effort to fly over there and tell him he's a rude twerp. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning, but without understanding. Justice Louis Brandeis, dissenting, Olmstead v US (1928) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 20:31 +1100, Russell Coker wrote: On Tuesday 07 December 2004 11:22, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 10:01 +1100, Brian May wrote: So are you saying I should take my web pages of my naked dogs down? Depends on who's prurient interests are appealed to by your naked dogs. Fortunately, though, pictures of naked dogs are *not* considered to be appealing to prurient interests. Unless, *maybe*, a hyper- horny 13 year old boy is seeing a picture of dogs copulating, and not in the context of some scientific value, i.e., a text book. Even in that case, though, the boy would probably be told to wash his hand and stop being a pervert. So you have no objections to bestiality web sites then? How does a picture of dogs copulating get morphed into bestiality? Are you are purposefully misinterpreting what I wrote? [snip] -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Fear the Penguin!! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Is Debian a common carrier? Was: package rejection
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 16:48 -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: Goswin von Brederlow wrote: But that would not include any debian mirror, they would be common carrier? A mirror operator in general does make choices about the content carried on the mirror. The closest analogy that would already have been litigated is a Cable TV system. The U.S. FCC decided that Cable TV networks were not common carriers because the subscriber did not determine the programming. This was appealed and the court agreed with FCC. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_TV Now, there might be a way make a mirror qualify. You would have to set it up so that the mirror would mirror everything that is sent its way without discrimination. The mirror operator could take money to do this, but would not be able to turn customers away. Then, you might have some chance of convincing a judge that the mirror provides a communications service in an entirely non-discriminatory fashion, which is what a common carrier does. I guess Akamai would be the closest example today to a mirror operating this way. But, of course, all this is US law. French law, for instance, is very strict regarding anything regarding Nazism. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. After seeing all the viruses, trojan horses, worms and Reply mails from stupidly-configured anti-virus software that's been hurled upon the internet for the last 3 years, and the time/money that is spent protecting against said viruses, trojan horses worms, I can only conclude that Microsoft is dangerous to the internet and American commerce, and it's software should be banned. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian's status as a legal entity and how it could effect a potential defense.
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 21:42 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Bruce Perens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 8. Obscenity and Harassment: GW computing systems and services may not be used in an obscene, harassing or otherwise improper manner. GW computing systems and services shall not be used in a manner that discriminates against another individual on any basis protected by federal or local law. This provision explicitly prohibits any behavior that is intended to or has the effect of creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive environment because of an individual's sex, race, color, religion, national origin, age, pregnancy, sexual orientation, disability, or other factors protected by law. And you have evidence that the inclusion of such an image in a bulk archive, which is present in a merely passive manner, runs afoul of this provision? It seems to me that a hostile workplace is not created by the presence of an archive or a single image in that archive. But if you have a legal opinion to offer on this question, I would be glad to hear it. A legal opinion on this matter would be a good idea... -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. It's springtime for Hitler, and Germany... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 16:55 +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 09:53:00PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, to the best my knowledge the kernel doesn't contain any pictures of naked people either. I might be mistaken. It does have language which qualifies as obscene. Not in the United States, at least, where obscene, as a matter of constitutional law, cannot describe text. Pfft, constitution. Like that'll ever hold up in court. Free Speech is not an absolute. For example, in most all of the US, if someone (especially an adult or teenager) yells out, Fuck you! in a playground full of younger children, and a policeman is nearby, the Sayer Of Foul Language could easily be hauled off. Circumstances that would make the Sayer more likely to be carted off would be the attitude of the policeman, whether a parent complains, or whether the yell was a one time offense, or whether it's a constant stream of off-color crudity. There was a case last year where a group of adults were floating down a river, making a constant, loud stream of crude comments. Just downstream was a couple of families with young children. A parent video-taped the scene, found a local sheriff, and the off- enders were arrested. The convictions were held up on appeal. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come. Carl Sandburg Oh, come on. Sure they will. That's what testosterone is for... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian's status as a legal entity and how it could effect a potential defense.
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 22:08 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A legal opinion on this matter would be a good idea... Keep in mind that Debian is not the U in question; Debian has no obligation to conform to some U's self-censorship policies. That's true. Debian doesn't *have* to be mirrored *anywhere*. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Regarding war zones: There's nothing sacrosanct about a hotel with a bunch of journalists in it. Marine Lt. Gen. Bernard E. Trainor (Retired) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 16:57 +1100, Brian May wrote: Russell == Russell Coker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Russell As an example see some of the books of advice for Russell pregnant women. They have LOTS of photos of nudity Russell including nipples and public hair. Women seem to buy Russell such books in quantity. From time to time they even have naked photos on broadcasted shows too. Sorry, I can't remember all the ratings now. I suspect one show was G (General), or similar (science show aimed at teenagers). What is scary is that I have all these nude photos on my website of some friends. Included is one bitch (hmmm... should include the other bitch sometime). No, I am not swearing (see dictionary reference for bitch if you are uncertain; in particular, see the K9 version). Should my website get censored? The subjects in question don't mind or understand... I think the issue, for the general case (some cultures may be different), isn't so much seeing the naked body is bad, rather, seeing pictures that present the body as a sex item is seen as bad. There is a fine line between the two, people will have different opinions. If you are presenting pictures that appeal to the prurient interest and lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value, then you very well might be violating your ISP's AUP. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. In America, only the successful writer is important, in France all writers are important, in England no writer is important, and in Australia you have to explain what a writer is. Geoffrey Cottrell signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 06:46 +0100, Miros/law Baran wrote: 5.12.2004 pisze William Ballard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 06:28:14PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: [snip] The interesting part is, how easily some of us resort to the plain, old censorship in the name of greater good. And how independent it is from being conservative or liberal [in the original meaning of these words]. Censorship is trying to get the upstream website taken down. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. A peace that depends on fear is nothing but a suppressed war. Henry Van Dyke signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Hot-Babe non-controversial images
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 17:02 +1100, Brian May wrote: Frederik == Frederik Schueler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: An earlier suggestion to show a lamb in various states of shear, and then roasted at 100% was also good. Frederik As a vegeterian I have to strongly object on this. ;-) An extra good reason not to overwork your poor overloaded CPU ;-). Unless you skin hot-babe with tofu in various states of, ummm... does tofu even turn brown when being stir-fried? :) How about pictures of GWB being burned in effigy? Or better yet, Michael Moore. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 07:03 +0100, Miros/law Baran wrote: 6.12.2004 pisze Brian May ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): [...] Also, to the best my knowledge the kernel doesn't contain any pictures of naked people either. I might be mistaken. It is much, much worse. There is a picture of naked animal there. Ok, I'll bite: which file? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. ACHTUNG - ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian's status as a legal entity and how it could effect a potential defense.
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 22:33 -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: That's true. Debian doesn't *have* to be mirrored *anywhere*. I have not so far seen what you are going to tell the mirror operators so that they know what packages to reject. Surely you can not believe that they are all responsible to dig this information up on their own. That would be very unsympathetic toward the role of people who do the project a lot of good. You are right. So, some manager would decree that Debian stop being mirrored. And, because other distros may also have the same package, they'd all be removed, as well. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. After listening to many White House, Pentagon CENTCOM briefings in both Gulf Wars, it is my firm belief that most senior correspondents either have serious agendas that don't get shaken by facts, or are dumb as dog feces. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 15:36 +0900, Mike Hommey wrote: On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 09:13:29PM -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No. We are not calling on the Morality Police to take the particular web site down. We are not saying, you can not install that app on your computer. There's a *fundamental* difference between don't want hot-babe in Debian and don't want hot-babe to *exist*. That doesn't contradict the fact that this could be considered stupid and/or hypocritic, while *not* censorship. True. Censorship and stupidity/hypocrisy are orthogonal. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The difference between RockRoll and Country Music? Old Rockers still on tour are pathetic, but old Country singers are still great. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:27 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:49:08 -0500, William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 06:28:14PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: might want, and put it on non-us since it is illegal to distribute such things in the USA (and unlike the possibility of offending people's sensibilities, THIS is a real issue as things stand). While at it, we They have had quite a few major busts of child pornographers in Europe and also Asia. Europe doesn't tolerate *everything*. Kinda irrelevant. I don't see them shutting down the Louvre. Because the paintings/statues in the Louvre are considered bona fide works of art, having serious literary, artistic, educational or scientific value. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. 'He insulted me, he cheated me, he beat me, he robbed me' -- those who are free of resentful thoughts surely find peace. Buddha signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian's status as a legal entity and how it could effect a potential defense.
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:31 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 21:37:41 -0800, Bruce Perens [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [snip] Seems like if the person being offended has the sole discretion about what is offensive, trhewn hell, we might as well hang up our keyboards and go home, cause anyone can be offended by anything. Hey, we agree on something Fear of being sued for harassment has made every organization (in- cluding Universities, hospitals, companies, non-profits, governments, etc) in the USA to spend lots of money on lawyers to devise rules and regulations, send managers to tolerance training sessions, make employees take sensitivity training classes, blah, blah, blah. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Legality/morality of using open wireless points: If I leave my door unlocked are you going to come into my house in the middle of the night because you need to use the restroom? I pay a fixed rate for water. It's cold water so there is no electricity usage. No financial loss. I have 2.5 bathrooms, so no loss of usage on my end. Is this OK? Please, try this and we'll see if it's OK. http://www.warchalking.org/comments/2002/9/22/223831/236/135 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 22:49 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: On Mon, 06 Dec 2004, Ron Johnson wrote: On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 07:03 +0100, Miros/law Baran wrote: 6.12.2004 pisze Brian May ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Also, to the best my knowledge the kernel doesn't contain any pictures of naked people either. I might be mistaken. It is much, much worse. There is a picture of naked animal there. Ok, I'll bite: which file? Hell, it's even worse. We distribute a picture with a naked animal Umm, all animals (except humans) are naked. admonishing impressionable youngsters to imbibe! ??? I'm sure there's a picture somewhere of Tux drinking a beer. Which package is it in, just out of curiosity. Upstream doesn't even stoop to our levels of depravity. Certainly not to mine... :o -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war. John F Kennedy signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian's status as a legal entity and how it could effect a potential defense.
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 22:44 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seems like if the person being offended has the sole discretion about what is offensive, trhewn hell, we might as well hang up our keyboards and go home, cause anyone can be offended by anything. Don't worry, that's not how hostile environment harassment law works. IIRC, it's based on a reasonable person test, and is extremely complex. It all depends on your definition of reasonable. Besides, since law suits cost so must to defend and can be publicly embarassing (even if the defendant wins, since TV/newspapers tend only to tell you about the accusation, not the acquittal), just the fear of being sued has caused a lot of money to be spent on unproductive things. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The main reason that M$ gets bashed is that they persist in writing bad code, on top of bad code As many have said, there is NO PERFECT OS. The better OS though, IMHO, is the one that will openly deal with issues, both major, and minor. Microsoft still needs a lot of work in this area. http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/202/comment/24104#MSG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:39 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 22:32:29 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 19:24 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There's a *fundamental* difference between don't want hot-babe in Debian and don't want hot-babe to *exist*. Currently, the procedures for the inclusion of packages in Debian allow each developer to decide what to package, provided the licenses permit distribution. Yes, I know. AFAICT, the only way for h-b to not be in Debian would be if Thibaut VARENE, who filed the original ITP, decided not to submit the package to Debian. That shall not work, since if the ITP is not followed upon, other people may chose to put the package in Debian. ITP's can be hijacked if the original author does not follow through. Picky, picky. You get my point, though. But probably not. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. One sword keeps another in the sheath. George Herbert signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:57:19 +0100, Jan Ingvoldstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Here's one useful suggestion, I think: If hot-babe is useful as a .deb, make it available as such through its own web site or something. This works for many other packages not accepted into the Debian tree for whatever reason, why shouldn't it work for hot-babe? The reason other packages are not accepted into Debian is usually license issues -- they are not fre. But that's censorship! -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. All machines, no matter how complex, are considered to be based on 6 simple elements: the lever, the pulley, the wheel and axle, the screw, the wedge and the inclined plane. Marilyn Vos Savant signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:38 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 20:50:25 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 15:07 +, Andrew Suffield wrote: On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 08:45:56AM -0600, Steve Greenland wrote: On 05-Dec-04, 04:55 (CST), James Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's no excuse for censorship, ever. Okay everybody, repeat after me: Choosing not to distribute a given package is NOT censorship. And telling somebody else that they can't distribute a given package IS censorship. You evidently have chosen not to do it. That's not censorship. You're presumably also trying to tell somebody else not to do it. That's censorship. Then the DFSG is censorship, and newspaper editors are censors. Be real, man. Steve Greenland said it perfectly: Choosing not to distribute a given package is NOT censorship. ... This is not a subtle difference. You choose not to put such a thing in Debian, your choice. You tell me that something I have worked upon, is legal, and free, and my work can't be put into debian because of your narrow morality, then it is indeed censorship. Sigh I never said it *can't*. The tone has been, *should* it be in Debian. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout. A MODEST PROPOSAL FOR PREVENTING THE CHILDREN OF POOR PEOPLE IN IRELAND FROM BEING A BURDEN TO THEIR PARENTS OR COUNTRY signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 01:06 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:48:47 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:27 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:49:08 -0500, William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 06:28:14PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: [snip] Kinda irrelevant. I don't see them shutting down the Louvre. Because the paintings/statues in the Louvre are considered bona fide works of art, having serious literary, artistic, educational or scientific value. And Bruno Bellamy paintings are so very obviously not art, eh? And you are who, the culture police? Yes, as a matter of fact, I am. I'd give you my badge number, but then I'd have to kill you, because it's Ultra Super Top Secret, and only certain members of the Dept Of Homeland Security, the Republican Party and Moral Majority are supposed to know that I am, in fact, a member of The Culture Police. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge where there is no river. Nikita Krushchev signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian's status as a legal entity and how it could effect a potential defense.
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 23:18 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't worry, that's not how hostile environment harassment law works. IIRC, it's based on a reasonable person test, and is extremely complex. It all depends on your definition of reasonable. No, that's not true. reasonable person (actually, they say reasonable man) is a quite well-defined concept in American law. Is reasonable man the same in San Francisco and Birmingham, AL? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. What I got by going to Canada was a cold. Henry David Thoreau signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian's status as a legal entity and how it could effect a potential defense.
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 02:04 -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Dec 06, 2004 at 12:24:19AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 22:08 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A legal opinion on this matter would be a good idea... Keep in mind that Debian is not the U in question; Debian has no obligation to conform to some U's self-censorship policies. That's true. Debian doesn't *have* to be mirrored *anywhere*. Hi all. if someone in $VERY_RESTRICTED_COUNTRY downloads it from $FREE_COUNTRY, is debian still liable? Don't think so. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. In America, only the successful writer is important, in France all writers are important, in England no writer is important, and in Australia you have to explain what a writer is. Geoffrey Cottrell signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 01:18 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 01:08:31 -0600, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:57:19 +0100, Jan Ingvoldstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Here's one useful suggestion, I think: If hot-babe is useful as a .deb, make it available as such through its own web site or something. This works for many other packages not accepted into the Debian tree for whatever reason, why shouldn't it work for hot-babe? The reason other packages are not accepted into Debian is usually license issues -- they are not fre. But that's censorship! No, dear idiot, it is not. We do not distribute illegal software, cause we are not scofflaws. We do not distribute non--free stuff, cause that is the core of what we are. And if no DD does the work, it is not here to be distributed. We do not censor based on content. Legal, illegal, what's the difference? *I* want to package it. Therefore, anyone who tries to stop me is censoring me. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning, but without understanding. Justice Louis Brandeis, dissenting, Olmstead v US (1928) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 23:44 -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Legal, illegal, what's the difference? *I* want to package it. Therefore, anyone who tries to stop me is censoring me. Nobody can stop you from creating a package of it. Folks on the Debian project can collectively decide whether or not the project should be a party to distributing it. Yes. I was trying to make a point by taking Manoj's censorship article to the extreme. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. One sword keeps another in the sheath. George Herbert signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
