Re: DE features dependent on Systemd
Am 06.12.2014 um 13:39 schrieb The Wanderer:
> On 12/06/2014 at 05:47 AM, Tomas Pospisek wrote:
>
>> Am 06.12.2014 um 00:55 schrieb Svante Signell:
>>
>>> On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 15:22 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>>>> When NFSv4 development sparked the modern Linux keyring data
>>>> model, we were delighted to switch (and then got very frustrated
>>>> by the GPL-only tags on various keyring features, but that's
>>>> another argument).
>>>
>>> So I wish you a happy life with current (Debian chosen) technology,
>>> it is perfect! No more problems with bugs popping up or people
>>> being unable to boot their desktop computers/servers. Merry
>>> Christmas :)
>>
>> So in apparently yet another tantrum you threw a buzzword ("OpenAFS")
>> in the face of the audience, Russ actually managed to (miraculously)
>> make sense of seeing that single word, answered and explained in
>> detail. And the reply you produce is yet more polemic and snide and
>> there's not a single (!) word of appreciation and acknowledgement of
>> the argument of yours that Russ put in perspective or maybe refuted?
>>
>> It makes the impression on me that your goal is to prevent systemd
>> by whatever means available you. It seems to be a holy grail of
>> yours: total destruction of systemd and all of its misguided
>> "followers".
>
> I don't think this last is entirely fair; I don't think (she?)'s
> interested in the total destruction of systemd, only in restoring it to
> a niche off in the metaphorical corner - to a status of "if you want to
> use it yourself, or advocate for others to use it, feel free - but don't
> do anything that makes it harder for others *not* to use it".
Might be you're right, and I've exagerated yet once again.
> Which I would actually agree with, albeit not with the type of vocal
> attitude towards it which (she?) apparently brings to the table. I like
> to think I'm both more rational and more reasonable than that.
>
>> I've ddg'd a bit but was unable to find a killfile for Thunderbird
>> yet. Does anybody know of such functionality for Thunderbird?
>
> Tools -> Message Filters. I don't use it for killfile purposes in
> E-mail, but I've used it that way (in "mark read" form, at least) on
> Usenet, with reasonably good effect.
Thanks a lot,
*t
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Re: DE features dependent on Systemd
Am 06.12.2014 um 00:55 schrieb Svante Signell:
> On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 15:22 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Svante Signell writes:
>>> On Wed, 2014-12-03 at 16:55 +, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 03/12/14 14:46, Svante Signell wrote:
>>
> If more granularity is needed, what's hindering introduction of even
> more groups: like an image group and splitting the fb0 to more devices?
> Or even subdirectories like /dev/snd/* for audio etc.
>>
This does not actually solve the same problem as logind's "uaccess", or
ConsoleKit's "udev ACL" (which was an older version of the same general
idea): it just splits it up into a larger number of orthogonal instances
of the same problem, which is that group membership makes a poor
encoding for temporary permissions.
>>
>>> Have you ever heard about openafs?
>
>> When NFSv4 development
>> sparked the modern Linux keyring data model, we were delighted to switch
>> (and then got very frustrated by the GPL-only tags on various keyring
>> features, but that's another argument).
>
> So I wish you a happy life with current (Debian chosen) technology, it
> is perfect! No more problems with bugs popping up or people being unable
> to boot their desktop computers/servers. Merry Christmas :)
So in apparently yet another tantrum you threw a buzzword ("OpenAFS") in
the face of the audience, Russ actually managed to (miraculously) make
sense of seeing that single word, answered and explained in detail. And
the reply you produce is yet more polemic and snide and there's not a
single (!) word of appreciation and acknowledgement of the argument of
yours that Russ put in perspective or maybe refuted?
It makes the impression on me that your goal is to prevent systemd by
whatever means available you. It seems to be a holy grail of yours:
total destruction of systemd and all of its misguided "followers".
You very much make the impression of an adrenaline saturated teenager
having realized that everything is the adults' fault. And now the
anti-systemd religion has enlightened you and you are glowing with the
joy of knowing that you are ready to die for THE TRUTH.
Sure it's worth destroying, wearing out, burning out all those idiots
blinded by Satan-d if they are not ready to convert to the one and only
TRUTH, right? You can not get out of this Jihad until the reign of Go-d
is reinstalled on earth, right?
Is my impression correct?
If you are unable to realize the problem with acting like this, then I'd
rather put you in a killfile and wait a few years for the adrenaline to
level down and to allow for balanced thoughts about the Linux landscape
again.
I've ddg'd a bit but was unable to find a killfile for Thunderbird yet.
Does anybody know of such functionality for Thunderbird?
*t
PS: Initially I was happy to see a person (you) contribute to #762194 to
try to move it further, but given your seeming inability to finding
consensus I think the only effect of your contributions there is driving
the participants' adrenaline up and thus clouding their ability to
decide in a calm, thoughtful and differentiated manner.
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Re: Bug#762194: Summary:Re: Bug#762194: Proposal for upgrades to jessie (lendows 1)
Am 29.11.2014 um 22:01 schrieb Philipp Kern: > On 2014-11-29 21:30, Steve Langasek wrote: >> Debian releases when it's ready. If large numbers of our users are >> going to >> have a bad experience with jessie as a result of being switched to >> systemd, >> then we should take appropriate steps to address that, even if that means >> unfreezing the installer. > > Sure. But where is the evidence for that? Is there a bug that has been > agreed upon to be RC? Whoever upgrades their lxc guests without taking further informed action (such as switching back to sysv), will not be able to start their LXC VM at the next reboot( #766233 [1]). This is currently classified as "a bug which has a major effect on the usability of a package, without rendering it completely unusable to everyone." and thus not RC, so if being RC is currently the precondition to fix stuff in jessie, then you are right. Unless at least respective documentation gets included in the release notes (#762194 [2]) I think there will be some future unhappiness. At this moment it's a trap waiting to be walked into. *t [1] http://bugs.debian.org/766233 [2] https://bugs.debian.org/762194 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547c9de8.5020...@sourcepole.ch
Re: upgrading to jessie broke usb_storage on a mode switched device
So, since there hasn't been any reaction to this, let me try to ask a few additional questions, that might help me to find out where to dig next: Am 27.11.2014 um 18:53 schrieb Tomas Pospisek: > Am 27.11.2014 um 17:12 schrieb Thomas Goirand: >> On 11/27/2014 09:28 PM, Tomas Pospisek wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> after upgrading to jessie(-with systemd) connecting my mobile to the >>> latop as a usb storage device stopped working. >>> >>> I do have to "rmmod usb_storage && modprobe usb_storage" in order for >>> the usb storage devices to become visible every time. >>> >>> What is the suggested procedure from here on short of filing a bug >>> against "general"? I do not have an idea which component between >>> systemd/udev/usb_modeswitch/the kernel/or other is at fault here, if >>> even it's the fault of a single package at all. Where does the bug >>> belong to? Is this more appropriate for debian-user? >> >> This sounds like an udev/systemd issue. Do you have any kind of logs to >> provide? Does "dmesg" says something? Anything in the syslog^W systemd >> journal? > > Yes, /var/log/messages looks like this: > > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28652.975203] usb 4-1.1: new high-speed USB > device number 26 using ehci-pci > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068821] usb 4-1.1: New USB device found, > idVendor=12d1, idProduct=1037 > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068831] usb 4-1.1: New USB device > strings: Mfr=2, Product=3, SerialNumber=4 > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068836] usb 4-1.1: Product: Android > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068840] usb 4-1.1: Manufacturer: Android > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068844] usb 4-1.1: SerialNumber: > 4C8BEFBC3276 > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.069822] usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0: USB Mass > Storage device detected > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.070344] scsi15 : usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0 > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier mtp-probe: checking bus 4, device 26: > "/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/usb4/4-1/4-1.1" > Nov 27 13:46:41 hier mtp-probe: bus: 4, device: 26 was not an MTP device > Nov 27 13:46:42 hier usb_modeswitch: switch device 12d1:1037 on 004/026 > > And that's that. Now when I do "rmmod usb_storage && modprobe usb_storage" > the log continues like this: > > Nov 27 13:46:55 hier kernel: [28666.858764] usbcore: deregistering interface > driver usb-storage > Nov 27 13:47:01 hier kernel: [28672.635113] usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0: USB Mass > Storage device detected > Nov 27 13:47:01 hier kernel: [28672.635615] scsi16 : usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0 > Nov 27 13:47:01 hier kernel: [28672.635915] usbcore: registered new interface > driver usb-storage > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.633832] scsi 16:0:0:0: Direct-Access > LinuxFile-CD Gadget PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.634382] scsi 16:0:0:1: Direct-Access > LinuxFile-CD Gadget PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.634813] scsi 16:0:0:2: CD-ROM > LinuxFile-CD Gadget PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.636127] sd 16:0:0:0: Attached scsi > generic sg2 type 0 > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.636856] sd 16:0:0:1: Attached scsi > generic sg3 type 0 > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.637294] sd 16:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI > removable disk > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.640180] sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 0x/0x caddy > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.641721] sr 16:0:0:2: Attached scsi > generic sg4 type 5 > Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.642690] sd 16:0:0:1: [sdc] Attached SCSI > removable disk > Nov 27 13:47:11 hier kernel: [28682.358352] sd 16:0:0:0: [sdb] 2310144 > 512-byte logical blocks: (1.18 GB/1.10 GiB) > Nov 27 13:47:11 hier kernel: [28682.363018] sdb: > Nov 27 13:47:13 hier kernel: [28684.404459] sd 16:0:0:1: [sdc] 62333952 > 512-byte logical blocks: (31.9 GB/29.7 GiB) > Nov 27 13:47:13 hier kernel: [28684.411152] sdc: sdc1 > Nov 27 13:47:23 hier kernel: [28695.050516] FAT-fs (sdc1): utf8 is not a > recommended IO charset for FAT filesystems, filesystem will be case sensitive! > Nov 27 13:47:23 hier kernel: [28695.075737] FAT-fs (sdc1): Volume was not > properly unmounted. Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck. So in these logs we see that: 1. when I plug in my smartphone 2. the kernel tells me he has noticed it and correctly reports the newly discovered device to the log 3. also the usb-storage module reports that it is seeing a new storage device on the USB bus. Also correct. 4a. next the mtp-probe reports that the new device is not a MTP
Re: Javascript trigger design
Am 28.11.2014 um 08:19 schrieb Matthias Urlichs: > Hi, > > Tomas Pospisek: >> At least the Ruby On Rails framework notices an updated JS and will >> re-compress the whole JS blob from its parts. > > Does it call stat() on every constituent of these packed JS files on every > web request, or does it do that with a periodic background checker? I do not know. Now that I am reading the answers in this thread I'm noticing that RoR might be checking the newness of JS scripts depending on the mode it's running in (production, testing, dev). In which case the trigger mechanism could come into play again. So maybe my statement was mistaken. In case anybody intends to make conclusions, s/he really needs to look these detail up in the RoR docu. *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547840c0.4050...@sourcepole.ch
Re: Technical committee acting in gross violation of the Debian constitution
It took me time to realize why writing the below didn't feel right in some uneasy way. That's because, allthough being logically completely correct (I boldly assert here...), what I wrote below completely misses the essence and is therefor just bullshit, which we can have a good laugh about. And that actually *does* expresses the essence: we _should_ be laughing! So, dear Josselin, sorry for confronting you with that nonsense, I hope you can chuckle about it gleefully! *t Am 27.11.2014 um 12:04 schrieb Tomas Pospisek: > Am 27.11.2014 um 01:19 schrieb Josselin Mouette: >> Yes, yes, and yes. This needs to be put in a frame and bashed in the >> head of anyone who keeps repeating that systemd is about GNOME. > > What about the idea of being mindful of the tone of your conversation > and keeping it conciously moderate, Josselin? > > When you are asking for something to be "bashed in the head" of people > other than you, then I think it is trivial to understand that you are > setting the response to be of the same tone with respect to agressivity > and intollerance. > > That kind of tone will evidently not contribute to keeping the > conversation constructive. > > If there's something to be learned from the mailing list traffic here > then it seems crystal clear to me that the *way* people interact with > each other is *the* determining factor of the future of Debian as a project. > > You must accept that there will be different opinions never mind how > stupid they are. If you react with violence and bash people on their > heads then that might work for small, fearful minorities, which you will > beat out of the project or into silence. But it will not work in a > situation like this, where a large and strong part of the project has a > different oppinion than you. > > Technical correctnes and excellence and correct and excellent > interaction are conditions sine non qua for a good and excellent project > and product. > > All of these are of course platitudes that you, being a brilliant mind, > have no problem to understand. Therefore I want to suggest to you to > please to take one step back before pressing reply and to choose the > words that you are using here in conversations conciously. > *t > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5477cbd9.10...@sourcepole.ch
Re: Javascript trigger design
Am 28.11.2014 um 00:04 schrieb Thomas Goirand: > Hi, > > Web application have evolved into monsters that needs lots of > javascript. It's very common that these javascript applications are > collecting all the .js library they use, concatenate them into a single > file, and compress the result using all sorts of tools (node uglify is > one of the implementation, but that's not the only one). > > As much as possible, as good Debian citizens, we do package each and > every javascript library into a separate package. But then, if there's > an update of that JS library, the Web application package has to somehow > know about it, and redo the concatenate & compress job. Otherwise, the > web app would continue to use the old version. > > I have this issue with the OpenStack dashboard (ie: Horizon), but also > with a second web app which I'm currently packaging (OpenStack Fuel, > which is a deployment software for OpenStack). Though this could of > course be generalize to any JS app. > > It's been a long time I've been thinking about it, and I believe that > the only way to do this, would be to use triggers. Though I have never > used triggers, and I thought it was a good idea to ask my DD friends and > this list about it. Should there be one trigger per web app? How would > this work? > > Thoughts anyone? Jonas maybe, who did lots of JS packaging? At least the Ruby On Rails framework notices an updated JS and will re-compress the whole JS blob from its parts. I don't know about other server side frameworks, but they _should_ be able to do the same. - ? Or there shoould be some switch or some additional plugin or such that enables the same functionality. Or do I missunderstand you? *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5477c7b4.90...@sourcepole.ch
Re: upgrading to jessie broke usb_storage on a mode switched device
Am 27.11.2014 um 17:12 schrieb Thomas Goirand: > On 11/27/2014 09:28 PM, Tomas Pospisek wrote: >> Hello, >> >> after upgrading to jessie(-with systemd) connecting my mobile to the >> latop as a usb storage device stopped working. >> >> I do have to "rmmod usb_storage && modprobe usb_storage" in order for >> the usb storage devices to become visible every time. >> >> What is the suggested procedure from here on short of filing a bug >> against "general"? I do not have an idea which component between >> systemd/udev/usb_modeswitch/the kernel/or other is at fault here, if >> even it's the fault of a single package at all. Where does the bug >> belong to? Is this more appropriate for debian-user? > > This sounds like an udev/systemd issue. Do you have any kind of logs to > provide? Does "dmesg" says something? Anything in the syslog^W systemd > journal? Yes, /var/log/messages looks like this: Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28652.975203] usb 4-1.1: new high-speed USB device number 26 using ehci-pci Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068821] usb 4-1.1: New USB device found, idVendor=12d1, idProduct=1037 Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068831] usb 4-1.1: New USB device strings: Mfr=2, Product=3, SerialNumber=4 Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068836] usb 4-1.1: Product: Android Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068840] usb 4-1.1: Manufacturer: Android Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.068844] usb 4-1.1: SerialNumber: 4C8BEFBC3276 Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.069822] usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0: USB Mass Storage device detected Nov 27 13:46:41 hier kernel: [28653.070344] scsi15 : usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0 Nov 27 13:46:41 hier mtp-probe: checking bus 4, device 26: "/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/usb4/4-1/4-1.1" Nov 27 13:46:41 hier mtp-probe: bus: 4, device: 26 was not an MTP device Nov 27 13:46:42 hier usb_modeswitch: switch device 12d1:1037 on 004/026 And that's that. Now when I do "rmmod usb_storage && modprobe usb_storage" the log continues like this: Nov 27 13:46:55 hier kernel: [28666.858764] usbcore: deregistering interface driver usb-storage Nov 27 13:47:01 hier kernel: [28672.635113] usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0: USB Mass Storage device detected Nov 27 13:47:01 hier kernel: [28672.635615] scsi16 : usb-storage 4-1.1:1.0 Nov 27 13:47:01 hier kernel: [28672.635915] usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storage Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.633832] scsi 16:0:0:0: Direct-Access LinuxFile-CD Gadget PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.634382] scsi 16:0:0:1: Direct-Access LinuxFile-CD Gadget PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.634813] scsi 16:0:0:2: CD-ROM LinuxFile-CD Gadget PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.636127] sd 16:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0 Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.636856] sd 16:0:0:1: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 0 Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.637294] sd 16:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.640180] sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 0x/0x caddy Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.641721] sr 16:0:0:2: Attached scsi generic sg4 type 5 Nov 27 13:47:02 hier kernel: [28673.642690] sd 16:0:0:1: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk Nov 27 13:47:11 hier kernel: [28682.358352] sd 16:0:0:0: [sdb] 2310144 512-byte logical blocks: (1.18 GB/1.10 GiB) Nov 27 13:47:11 hier kernel: [28682.363018] sdb: Nov 27 13:47:13 hier kernel: [28684.404459] sd 16:0:0:1: [sdc] 62333952 512-byte logical blocks: (31.9 GB/29.7 GiB) Nov 27 13:47:13 hier kernel: [28684.411152] sdc: sdc1 Nov 27 13:47:23 hier kernel: [28695.050516] FAT-fs (sdc1): utf8 is not a recommended IO charset for FAT filesystems, filesystem will be case sensitive! Nov 27 13:47:23 hier kernel: [28695.075737] FAT-fs (sdc1): Volume was not properly unmounted. Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5477652f.1030...@sourcepole.ch
upgrading to jessie broke usb_storage on a mode switched device
Hello, after upgrading to jessie(-with systemd) connecting my mobile to the latop as a usb storage device stopped working. I do have to "rmmod usb_storage && modprobe usb_storage" in order for the usb storage devices to become visible every time. What is the suggested procedure from here on short of filing a bug against "general"? I do not have an idea which component between systemd/udev/usb_modeswitch/the kernel/or other is at fault here, if even it's the fault of a single package at all. Where does the bug belong to? Is this more appropriate for debian-user? ? Thanks, *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54772708.1060...@sourcepole.ch
successful upgrade to jessie - thanks!
Hello list, I hope it's appropriate here, I just wanted to say *thanks to everybody*, in particular the low level package and infrastructure maintainers for the excellent work they've done. Yesterday I've upgraded my laptop with quite massive foreign package sources and installations (qgis packages, backports, stuff from ubuntu PPAs, nodejs, a dozen packages from jessie etc.) from wheezy to jessie. Allthough apt-get dist-upgrade broke half way through due to unresolvable package dependencies, I was able to finish the upgrade via aptitude's ncurses interface. One problem when upgrading via apt-get is that if it breaks then I think there's no way a user that is not *very much* knowledgeable will be ever able to get his system back together. apt-get with or without -f will (in my case) flood the user with a broken dependencies listing which is far, far beyond trivial to act upon. So I think if Debian wants to embrace the "normal" desktop end user, then it *can not* point him to apt-get as the upgrade method of choice. I am not sure how pervasive non-debian package sources (mind you Debian backports are officially listed at Debian, but can break the upgrade none the less!) are in our install base, but there are a lot of upstream projects that do provide Debian packages and respective advice is easily found on the intertubes. I do not know how other Debian users handle tech, but my way of approaching technology is "just try". In the case of a Debian installation with foreign package sources that "apt-get dist-upgrade" approach will quite likely end with a broken system. So I think it'd be good to add a big fat warning to "apt-get dist-upgrade" if it finds non canonical sources to tell the user "you want to break your system now? Please go ahead and type 'YES' now" or have a different way for upgrading for "end users". Another point to note is that the migration to systemd went very smoothly - very few things broke - so applause to all the burned out parties out there and those that are sill holding out: you did a very good job. Thanks a lot! *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54772586.9060...@sourcepole.ch
Re: Technical committee acting in gross violation of the Debian constitution
Am 27.11.2014 um 01:19 schrieb Josselin Mouette: > Yes, yes, and yes. This needs to be put in a frame and bashed in the > head of anyone who keeps repeating that systemd is about GNOME. What about the idea of being mindful of the tone of your conversation and keeping it conciously moderate, Josselin? When you are asking for something to be "bashed in the head" of people other than you, then I think it is trivial to understand that you are setting the response to be of the same tone with respect to agressivity and intollerance. That kind of tone will evidently not contribute to keeping the conversation constructive. If there's something to be learned from the mailing list traffic here then it seems crystal clear to me that the *way* people interact with each other is *the* determining factor of the future of Debian as a project. You must accept that there will be different opinions never mind how stupid they are. If you react with violence and bash people on their heads then that might work for small, fearful minorities, which you will beat out of the project or into silence. But it will not work in a situation like this, where a large and strong part of the project has a different oppinion than you. Technical correctnes and excellence and correct and excellent interaction are conditions sine non qua for a good and excellent project and product. All of these are of course platitudes that you, being a brilliant mind, have no problem to understand. Therefore I want to suggest to you to please to take one step back before pressing reply and to choose the words that you are using here in conversations conciously. *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5477053b.4000...@sourcepole.ch
Re: Beersigning in Zürich/SH/Winti? Meeting other local Debianistas? Bugfixing?
Thanks for all the nice info Paul! *t Am 12.11.2014 um 06:59 schrieb Paul Wise: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Tomas Pospisek wrote: > >> would any of you come and sign my key when in Zürich/SH/Winti? > > In case folks from these places aren't reading this list, some possibilities: > > https://db.debian.org/search.cgi?country=ch&dosearch=Search > https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers#CH > https://wiki.debian.org/LocalGroups#Switzerland > http://debian.ch/ > > This info brought to you by DebianLocations: > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLocations -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54634e30.7030...@sourcepole.ch
Beersigning in Zürich/SH/Winti? Meeting other local Debianistas? Bugfixing?
Hello all, since 1. I need signatures on my all new fresh key 0x29774B39 and 2. I would love to meet all the local Debianistas would any of you come and sign my key when in Zürich/SH/Winti? Anybody interested in going out for a beer? We could also have a bugfixing evening. Wink, *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5462c30f.3090...@sourcepole.ch
Re: patch to remove 'base' pseudo package
On Thu, 11 Sep 2014, Holger Levsen wrote: Hi Tomas, thanks for having jumped in dealing with these kinds of bugs. Much appreciated! :-)! Thanks Holger! On Donnerstag, 11. September 2014, Tomas Pospisek wrote: the attached patch implements the removal of the 'base' pseudo package from reportbug. cool, thanks! (Though this should probably be re-send as a new wishlist bug against reportbut. #734053 is about removing the "base" pseudo package from the BTS.) Done, see #761206 [1]. Thanks for letting me know about my mistake! Additionally I'd like to ask if it'd be OK to at the same time reassign the existing few bug reports from the 'base' package to the 'general' package or to more specific packages (most of the 'base' bugs seem to concern the kernel). rather assign them to the right package(s), those bugs don't belong to "general". Ping me if you have questions about how to handle specific bugs. Thanks, I will. However, for today I had my share of BTS work, I'll see when I'll continue. Liebe Grüsse! *t [1] http://bugs.debian.org/761206
patch to remove 'base' pseudo package
Hello,
the attached patch implements the removal of the 'base' pseudo package
from reportbug.
Additionally I'd like to ask if it'd be OK to at the same time reassign
the existing few bug reports from the 'base' package to the 'general'
package or to more specific packages (most of the 'base' bugs seem to
concern the kernel).
Thanks,
*tcommit 8019e48
Author: Tomas Pospisek
Date: Thu Sep 11 17:59:34 2014 +0200
remove 'base' package
Fixes #734053
diff --git bin/reportbug bin/reportbug
index 127cbda..80155b4 100755
--- bin/reportbug
+++ bin/reportbug
@@ -483,7 +483,7 @@ def get_package_name(bts='debian', mode=MODE_EXPERT):
'bug tracking system itself.'):
package = 'reportbug'
-if package in ('general', 'project', 'debian-general', 'base'):
+if package in ('general', 'project', 'debian-general'):
ui.long_message(
"If you have a general problem, please do consider using "
'the available Debian support channels to narrow the problem '
diff --git reportbug/debbugs.py reportbug/debbugs.py
index ce21ba4..0e4abb6 100644
--- reportbug/debbugs.py
+++ reportbug/debbugs.py
@@ -160,7 +160,6 @@ def convert_severity(severity, type='debbugs'):
# These packages are virtual in Debian; we don't look them up...
debother = {
-'base' : 'General bugs in the base system',
'bugs.debian.org' : 'The bug tracking system, @bugs.debian.org',
'buildd.debian.org' : 'Problems and requests related to the Debian Buildds',
'buildd.emdebian.org' : 'Problems related to building packages for Emdebian',
Bug#760615: general: Shell scripts do not execute in gui.
Hello Kenji, On 6.9.2014 Kenji Takashima wrote: I have been trying to execute multiple shell scripts in gui with no avail. The scripts succesfully executed in a terminal, however in the gui, the files would not execute when clicked on, and, when right-clicked, did not have a "run" option. Other types of executables have worked, though I have not tested that many. In my GUI scripts *can* be executed by double clicking! But maybe my "GUI" is not the same as your GUI? That's why o it would be good if you could tell us, what "GUI" that GUI of yours is? What is the name of the programm/application, in which you are trying to execute the script? My GUI is XFCE and in XFCE I open the "Thunar" file browser. I double- click a script in Thunar, but nothing happens. That is because usually scripts write to the "standard out" channel. If you do not run a script in a terminal, then it does not have a "standard out" channel. That's why you will not seem anything happen when the script is executed. In order to veryfiy that Thunar actually *does* execute a script when I double-click it I did the following, which you can do as well: Open a terminal and in the terminal write the following: cd /tmp echo "#!/bin/sh" > foobar echo "touch foobar.touched" >> foobar chmod +x foobar Now doublecklick that script. Has the file "foobar.touched" been created on your machine? Greets, *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/alpine.DEB.2.02.1409062051060.29858@hier
Re: Applying to Become a Maintainer
Am 03.09.2014 22:59, schrieb FERNANDO CROWLEY: > Hello , > want to help i am novice Linux love to learn more on the OS debian > please direct me https://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54082e90.5040...@sourcepole.ch
Re: Bugs which do not belong to console-setup
Am 07.08.2014 12:32, schrieb Anton Zinoviev: > I have two bugs reported against console-setup about keybord not working > properly under X Window. In both cases I have asked the reportes to > provide the file /etc/default/keyboard and in both cases the file was > correct. Therefore, the bugs are not related to console-setup in any > way. > > Unfortunately X Window and the various desktop environments are > something I don't understand well enough, so I have no idea where to > reassign these bugs. In result, at the moment both bugs are completely > ignored. > > Please advise what should I do in such cases. > > The bugs are: > #709883 - reported 14 months ago and #724869 - reported 10 months ago. Wrt. #709883 the original bug reporter (OBR) wrote: > [...] > I tried with gdm3/ligthdm/only startx, and the problems is still > here. It seems related to X or udev since the upgrade, because gnome > is well set and gives a french keyboard (macbook pro one), and for > awesome, my main wm, i have to setxkbmap fr in ~/.xsession to get a > french keyboard layout > [...] > I'm still trying to figure out how to get french back at dm greeter So most window managers and login managers don't get the keyboard right, however gnome does. The correct/wrong keyboard setup/information must come from *somewhere*, but from where? So one thing the OBR could do to figure out what's going on is to "strace -f" startx and the gnome startup, figure out which files are being accessed (only stat, open and mmap calls are of interest I guess) and then compare the produced lists. Otherwise, if nobody can figure out what's going on, or the OBR doesn't care any more either the OBR or the console-setup maintainers can decide to close the bug, since no way forward can be made unless there's more info. Or leave it open. HTH a bit, *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53ebd7b4.8050...@sourcepole.ch
Re: JIFFIES in userspace
Tach Joël, Am 13.08.2014 05:42, schrieb Joël Krähemann: > Hi I develop an audio sequencer: > http://ags.sf.net > > Now, what values would you recommend as JIFFIEs for the following > threads: > > * AgsAudioLoop > * AgsTaskThread > * AgsGuiThread > * AgsDevoutThread the topic of the debian-devel mailing list is the development of the Debian Linux distribution. It's not about application or more specifically sound application development. You might want to search the internet for more specific mailing lists, that concern themselves with audio on Linux. They should be more qualified to help you. Greets, *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53eb5ec0.8020...@sourcepole.ch
Re: systemd-fsck?
Am 13.05.2014 21:49, schrieb Cyril Brulebois: > Thibaut Paumard (2014-05-13): >> Le 13/05/2014 17:36, Russ Allbery a écrit : >>> Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think >>> we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an >>> opportunity to not change init systems. >> >> Instead of or in addition to such prompting, I expect this switch will >> be documented in the Release Notes so that people who really care are >> aware of the risks and the cases which are known to break. > > The sad thing is: almost nobody reads the release notes. Are you saying this just like that or can you back it up with facts somehow? As far as I have read in this thread, the only reported problem with upgrading from sysv to systemd concerns remote virtual machines that won't boot. Remote virtual machines are a problem that will mostly concern sysadmins. Me as a responsible sysadmin am reading the release notes, because I do not want to have downtimes with my machines and so I want to know beforehand if there are any known problems that I should be aware of. And I have trouble imagining that other people that call themselves sysadmins do not act the same. Or do they? *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53765d0c.1000...@sourcepole.ch
Re: systemd-fsck?
Am 15.05.2014 01:42, schrieb Marc Haber: > On Tue, 13 May 2014 17:28:27 +0200, Vincent Bernat > wrote: >> ? 13 mai 2014 15:01 +0200, Marc Haber : Thank you so much for volunteering to contribute to GNOME packaging and to make it work on configurations nobody will actually ever use. We are eagerly waiting for your patches. >>> >>> This sort of behavior is precisely why many users are migrating away >>> from Debian. >> >> Could you please stop FUD? Do you have some reference for this claim? > > I know at least two of them. And I, for myself, have greatly reduced > my efforts to report bugs in Debian since I alredy know the reaction > of many maintainers. Oh, please don't. When I have a problem, searching the BTS is one of the most efficient ways to improve my knowledge. Please also for the sake of me and maybe also of other users, please do report bugs, even if you expect the maintainer to ignore you. *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5376637c.80...@sourcepole.ch
Re: About Re-Distribution
Am 10.06.2013 14:13, schrieb Shivam Pandya: > Hello sir/ Ma'm > > I'm Shivam Pandya, and study in my last year, I want to develop a OS > in my final year project, I found debian from wiki, Can you help me > out from this. can you please guide me that how could I develop (re > distribute) my own one, what steps needed if I use Windows.? I'd suggest to start by installing Debian on some PC or laptop and then see what you want to change in Debian. *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/51b72f74.3020...@sourcepole.ch
Re: Bugs filed in unexpected places
Hello Andrei and all, On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:24:59 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > The discussion about ITO made me think: wouldn't it make more sense to > also have RFH, RFA, and O filled against the package itself and not > wnpp? One has to be quite familiar with Debian to check wnpp for RFH, > RFA or O. Maybe having these bugs "in the face" of people interested in > the package (i.e. on the package's bug page) can help attract > contributions. > > Additionally for some packages it might make sense to remove them from > testing and raise the severity of the O bug to serious to signal that > the package should not be included in the next release unless someone is > willing to commit to maintain it. > > An immediate solution would probably be to 'affects ' so the > bugs at least shows up on the package's bug page. Maybe the BTS > could/should do this automatically? > > > One a somewhat related note, I also notice confusion is created by the > removal bugs being filed against ftp.debian.org. When people not > familiar with Debian are looking into why a package has been removed > they look at the (archived) package's bugs. Not a biggie, but might help > users or prospective ITPers (e.g. if the removal reasons still apply). > Not sure if 'affects' can help here. > > I'm guessing the current procedures were created because at the time the > BTS did not have the 'affects ' feature. Have you tried to hack anything yet? I've seen that Don Armstrong seens to be open to these ideas. I've also been roaming around http://bugs.debian.org/bugs.debian.org and I'm also encountering the same problems you describe above. *t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/394759cd3e5b59c9f637b444f3df3...@sourcepole.ch
Re: Announce: script to automatically restart services after update of dependencies
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:23:45 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > Tomas Pospisek writes: > >> On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:10:46 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: >>> On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 20:40 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: >>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Tomas Pospisek wrote: >>>> >>>> > I want to announce restart-services here [1][2]. It's a script >>>> > that tries to restart all services that have had their >>>> > dependency packages updated. This is primarily useful when >>>> > security-relevant libraries get security releases. >>>> > >>>> > It's using checkrestart from the debian-goodies package to do >>>> > most of its work. >>>> > >>>> > Together with the unattended-upgrades package it is saving me >>>> > a lot of system maintenance time, thus I am announcing it here >>>> > in the hope that it will save others a lot of time as well. >>>> >>>> Sounds useful, maybe put it in the debian-goodies package? >> >> I've proposed this to Javier [3] and it's been quite well received :-) >> >>> What, yet another feature reserved for those in the know? Surely we >>> should be doing this by default. >> >> I agree. Could you suggest a way forward? Currently I'm aiming for >> debian-goodies, however maybe unattended-upgrades would be a better fit. >> However I think really it should go into apt-level inftrastructure. > > I want to automatically restart services so that / and /usr can be > remounted read-only again. But I don't want unattended upgrades. So for > me debian-goddies is a better fit. Easy enough to add it then to the > apt config. Point taken. However Ben argued, if I interpret him correctly, that services that depend on something (a library), should be restarted by default if that dependency gets updated and the user should not be required to install an "obscure" package to have that sane default behavior. This implies that an "apt-get install library" needs to trigger that restart. Which means that apt-get needs to depend on restart-services. So either restart-services and checkrestart should go into the apt package, or apt needs to depend on/recommend debian-goodies, which would currently pull in python, perl, curl, dialog and their respective dependencies. The later may be a technically working solution, but from a conceptual and a KISS point of view doesn't make sense to me. Is my conclusion correct so far? So if we want a "clean" solution, then checkrestart/restart-services would need to move into apt and get rid of the non-essential dependencies (get rewritten in shell or C). ? *t >> [3] http://bugs.debian.org/676509 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/dd25736bb03f21cb838910bbfd35c...@mail.sp-metanet
Re: Announce: script to automatically restart services after update of dependencies
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:10:46 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: > On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 20:40 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Tomas Pospisek wrote: >> >> > I want to announce restart-services here [1][2]. It's a script >> > that tries to restart all services that have had their >> > dependency packages updated. This is primarily useful when >> > security-relevant libraries get security releases. >> > >> > It's using checkrestart from the debian-goodies package to do >> > most of its work. >> > >> > Together with the unattended-upgrades package it is saving me >> > a lot of system maintenance time, thus I am announcing it here >> > in the hope that it will save others a lot of time as well. >> >> Sounds useful, maybe put it in the debian-goodies package? I've proposed this to Javier [3] and it's been quite well received :-) > What, yet another feature reserved for those in the know? Surely we > should be doing this by default. I agree. Could you suggest a way forward? Currently I'm aiming for debian-goodies, however maybe unattended-upgrades would be a better fit. However I think really it should go into apt-level inftrastructure. ? >> Also, please blacklist gdm3 and dbus since restarting them currently >> kills GNOME sessions (and probably other user desktop sessions started >> by gdm3). Noted. I'll discuss this with Javier. PS: Sorry Ben for also replying in private to you. I'll have to get used to mailing lists (and my web mail client) again :-o [3] http://bugs.debian.org/676509 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/dd2dff74094493356b2da0485cc34...@mail.sp-metanet
Announce: script to automatically restart services after update of dependencies
I want to announce restart-services here [1][2]. It's a script that tries to restart all services that have had their dependency packages updated. This is primarily useful when security-relevant libraries get security releases. It's using checkrestart from the debian-goodies package to do most of its work. Together with the unattended-upgrades package it is saving me a lot of system maintenance time, thus I am announcing it here in the hope that it will save others a lot of time as well. Thanks, *t [1] http://sourcepole.ch/2012/6/7/automatically-restarting-services-after-upgrades-on-debian-and-ubuntu [2] https://github.com/tpo/debian-goodies -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/7f19c94095a8d9d9467cfbd176b45...@mail.sp-metanet
Re: krb5: ABI Issue--confirm your packages work against 1.4.3 in experimental
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005, Sam Hartman wrote: I'd appreciate it if you would take the time to see if your package works against the new Kerberos library. The easiest way to do this is to build your package or at least the kerberos using parts of your package against the new libkrb5-dev package and confirm there are no warnings about missing prototypes and that your package can successfully link to libkrb5. Mailsync at least links fine against the new libkrb5. Since I don't have access to a kerberos environment I however can't test if it also does fine at runtime. Thanks, *t -- ---- Tomas Pospisek http://sourcepole.com - Linux & Open Source Solutions -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: started to make changelogs and copyright file online available
On 8 Dec 2002, Noèl Köthe wrote: > I started to make the changelog and copyright file of the Debian > packages online Ah! Wondeful. Would be nice to have it integrated in the frontends ... "do I want/need to update this to the latest unstable version yet - let's check the changelog ..."? Very nice! *t -- to ma will kill for oil s p
Re: bill gates Linux
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The response I got to a simple > request for an DOS or Windows > based "SETUP.EXE" program which > loads Linux onto my hard drive, What you want is not a technical problem. So now, that you know it's feasible you have at least the following alternatives: 1) You go and implement it -> "Go spiratec, go!!" We're all happy to see you do it. 2) You wait untill it happens, maybe by trolling around here and there. 3) You let someone else do it for free or for pay. We're a small company and would happily accept such a job, like there are many others I'm sure here that would be willing to do it. Btw. here is a SETUP.BAT that does what you need: rem SETUP.BAT rem Installation program for Linux rem echo Linux has been installed. Please insert the Debian Install CD into echo your CD drive now and reboot to complete the Linux installation. I'm serious. That's the cycle that many "SETUP.EXE"s will provide you with. I certain the installation could be refined a bit to ask you "Do you want to reboot now?" and reboot automatically. *t -- to ma will kill for oil s p
Re: description writing guide
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:58:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: > > > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > > I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package > > > description override list. > > > > I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug reports. > > But do your bug reports keep up with the flow of new packages into the > archive? That is, is the overall description quality increasing or > decreasing? There are others that are writing bugreports against package descriptions. I do it about every second time I do an package list update. I fear being too pedantic, but I haven't met any angrynes yet. So far positive. *t -- to ma will kill for oil s p
Re: Bug#156407: ITP: free-java-sdk -- Complete Java SDK environment consising of free Java tools
On 12 Aug 2002, Grzegorz Prokopski wrote: > Facts that caused that I have choosen this set of tools. It'd be nice if you kept this comparison list somewhere (and up to date ;-) - at an URL or in the README, so the "measurement" can be repeated, verified, criticised, enhanced... *t ------- Tomas Pospisek sourcepole- Linux & Open Source Solutions http://sourcepole.com Elestastrasse 18, 7310 Bad Ragaz, Switzerland Tel:+41 (81) 330 77 13, Fax:+41 (81) 330 77 12
Re: dpkg logging
On Sun, 23 Sep 2001, Massimo Dal Zotto wrote: > > > Previously Steve Greenland wrote: > > > > Stdout and stderr from the maintainer scripts. (This may be obvious, but > > >> you didn't explicitly list it.) > > > > > > No, they should use debconf. > > > > Regardless of whether packages are using debconf, I have wondered for > > *years* > > why we didn't at least have the option of logging stdout and stderr from > > everything in the install/update process. I think it's a good idea. > > > > Bdale > > I have proposed this two years ago and implemented it in my automatic > installer for slink. The idea is to start a script session from an > initscript hook for vt1 and have all the debian installation started > automagically by the shell run by script with all output logged into > a logfile. > > Since all can be done with shell script hacks this solution is very > easy to implement and requires very few changes to the installation > program. A simple shell wrapper should work. Yes please. Where can I find it? *t Tomas Pospisek SourcePole - Linux & Open Source Solutions http://sourcepole.ch Elestastrasse 18, 7310 Bad Ragaz, Switzerland Tel: +41 (81) 330 77 11
Re: reopening ECN bugreport/netbase
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > working fine. The really broken part is firewalls and tcp/ip stacks on > the internet that do things to TCP that they shouldn't and break your > experience. > > Go bugreport those instead. Never mind the users: they will be happy to spend two days debuging the network to find out that "Ahhh, Debian is defending the flag of the true IP compliance", where as *all* the other box he knows just work. And yes, Debian can be proud to be right. *t ------- Tomas Pospisek sourcepole- Linux & Open Source Solutions http://sourcepole.com Elestastrasse 18, 7310 Bad Ragaz, Switzerland Tel:+41 (81) 330 77 13, Fax:+41 (81) 330 77 12
Re: reopening ECN bugreport/netbase
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Anthony Towns wrote: > severity 110892 wishlist > thanks > > On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 02:42:23PM +0200, Tomas Pospisek wrote: > > # On Sun, 2 Sep 2001 06:31:19 +1000, Herbert Xu wrote: > > # > On Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:33:35PM +0200, Tomas Pospisek wrote: > > # > > I don't know if this is the right place to assign the bug. > > It's not a bug at all really, and it's certainly not a "critical" one. >From the docu: critical makes unrelated software on the system (or the whole system) break, [...] This is *exacly* what happens after an update from a vanilla 2.2.x kernel to a 2.4. Some sites plain disapear from the internet, which is not a catastrophy. What's worse is that with some routers you will *completely* loose TCP network connectivity. If you happen to be using your box as a firewall it's the whole LAN that'll be dropped. How does this differ from the phrasing ".. or the whole system) break"? Does there need some physical violence be involved to fullfill the requirements for a critical bugreport? > If > you happen not to like ECN on your systems add "sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn=0" > to /etc/sysctl.conf (which is a much better place for such things than > /etc/network/options) and be done with it. I couldn't care less about ECN or whatever acronym. The problem is that "the whole system) break"s. That's a problem. And this will happen at every single site that f.ex. is using an mildly old Zyxel router. > AFAIC, the default settings'll remain exactly as they are in the kernel. There's a problem and no one feels responsible. Well, so I reiterate from the begining. If netbase is not responsible and that setting has to be set through /etc/sysctl.conf and since the procps package is not supposed to know what possible kernel-feature-configuration combinations are possible/allowed (check this output: error: '/proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn' is an unknown key (when starting from a 2.2.x kernel) ) then it's the kernel-image package that needs to make sure it's runing in a sane environment. So *please* can we add something like: if ! grep /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn /etc/sysctl.conf >/dev/null; then echo sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn=0 >> /etc/sysctl.conf fi to the kernel-image-2.4.x postinst. *t --- Tomas Pospisek sourcepole- Linux & Open Source Solutions http://sourcepole.com Elestastrasse 18, 7310 Bad Ragaz, Switzerland Tel:+41 (81) 330 77 13, Fax:+41 (81) 330 77 12
reopening ECN bugreport/netbase
reopen 110862 # Here with I am reopening this bug. # # On Sun, 2 Sep 2001 06:31:19 +1000, Herbert Xu wrote: # # > On Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:33:35PM +0200, Tomas Pospisek wrote: # > > # > > I don't know if this is the right place to assign the bug. Maybe the # > > right place for this is netbase, ifupdown or kernel-package - I # > > don't know. Please reassign the bug as you wish. # > # > This is certainly not the right place. Anyway, it's your job to # > decide, not mine. # # As it's up to me to decide: Yes, this is the right place. This *is* a # bug of this kernel-image package. ECN is *not* a standard setting. It # is marked experimental and is off by default in the upstream default # config. The reason for this is wellknown and has been discussed in the # ECN thread on debian-devel. # # I do agree with you that by not compiling ECN into the kernel module # users will not be able to use it and will have to recompile their # kernel. # # So the problem is upstream - ECN should be either a module or off by # default even if compiled into the kernel. # # A workaround, which would be also to some extend cleaner would be to # enable or disable ECN in netbase. A patch to netbase has been proposed # in this same bugreport: # # http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=110862&msg=4 # # There's a whishlist pending against netbase reporting the same problem: # # http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=98228 # # So I am going to follow up on that report now, which means that it is up # to Anthony to hopefully include that patch in netbase allthough it is # frozen. # # *t --- Tomas Pospisek sourcepole- Linux & Open Source Solutions http://sourcepole.com Elestastrasse 18, 7310 Bad Ragaz, Switzerland Tel:+41 (81) 330 77 13, Fax:+41 (81) 330 77 12
Re: sysctl should disable ECN by default
Zitiere Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Can we just choose option (a) and be done with it? > > If Debian isn't going to choose option (a), why are we > > talking about option (c)? > > See Herbert's mail. IMHO we need a good place to disable it and notify > the user. Since the beginning of this discussion the solution is there, available, and has been presented here. I just need to find the time to ask for inclusion. Or if someone wants to do that for me please go for it. *Please* check: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=110862&msg=4&repeatmerged=yes *t
