Re: Changes to abi=+time64 behavior (was Re: 64-bit time_t transition in progress)
So when introducing a new soname (no just a new package name), then one should move to time64 even on i386 ? The problem with doing this is that 1. A reverse dependency may depend on more than one library that uses time_t in it's API. Said reverse dependency would not be able to be sanely built if libfoo uses 32-bit time_t in it's API and libbar uses 64-bit time_t in it's API. 2. If any of your reverse dependencies are libraries that expose time_t in their API they would have a similar problem.
Re: Mapping Reproducibility Bug Reports to Commits
I am a researcher at the University of Waterloo, conducting a project to study reproducibility issues in Debian packages. The first step for me is to link each Reproducibility-related bug at this link: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?usertag=reproducible-bui...@lists.alioth.debian.org to the corresponding commit that fixed the bug. However, I am unable to find an explicit way of doing so programatically. Please assist. There is no explicit link. Most (but not all) debian packages are maintained in a VCS and there are fields in the source package that identify the location and type of the VCS (almost certainly git nowadays), but there are multiple different workflows used (git-buildpackage is the most common and normally uses a "patches-unapplied" git tree, but there is also dgit which uses a "patches applied" git tree. Git trees may or may not contain the upstream source. At least one language community uses a system where the git tree stores files that are used to generate the Debian packaging rather than the final Debian packaging itself. Also maintainer practices for strucuring commits vary, some maintainers update the changelog at the same time as making the actual changes, others update the changelog in a batch later. Sometimes bugs aren't even closed from the changelog at all but instead are closed by the maintainer after the upload. Particularly if the maintainer is not sure whether a change will fix the bug. With all that said, it's probably doable to develop heuristics that map bug numbers to commits in most cases, an outline might be. * Check if the package has a VCS and the relavent changelog can be found in said VCS, if there is no VCS give up and reffer the bug for human attention. * Map the bug number to a changelog line (if there is no such mapping, give up and reffer the bug for human attention) * Determine which commit added the changelog line (e.g. with git blame), see if there are actual code changes in that commit, * if so take it as the probable commit, if not then search backwards a bit for a commit message that matches the changelog line. Another option having guessed a range of commits from the changelog and/or from comparing the VCS to the source packages may be to run a bisection, this would likely require some effort to detect what workflow is in use though.
Re: Re: Split Packages files based on new section "buildlibs"
> The same applies to the GNOME/GTK stack, where Flatpak is the way to go > for active development. libgtk-3-dev is really only for building Debian > packages from their point of view, too. Perhaps, but what matters is not upstream's point of view but Debian user's point of view. My perception is that when C/C++ users on debian want a library to compile stuff against their first port of call is "apt-get install libwhatever-dev". Building C/C++ libraries from upstream sources is considered a last resort. Whereas for rust users, noone seems to build or distribute binary libraries and the done thing is to use cargo which automatically downloads and builds the libraries your project needs. You have to actively go out of your way to make cargo use rust libraries from Debian rather than those from crates.io Upstream gnome developers may use flatpak, but I think upstream gnome developers are a small subset of the people building stuff against gtk.
Re: Release status of i386 for Bullseye and long term support for 3 years?
Then there was the short netbook boom, but AFAIR some early ones had 64bit CPUs but 32bit-only firmware. My memory is that at the height of the boom the dominant processors were the N270 and N280, which are 32-bit only. By the time 64-bit netbook processors showed up the boom was on the decline. There are at least two more: 5. People running Debian on virtual machines. You can run an i386 VM with vmware or virtualbox with no special hardware support. An x86-64 VM on the other hand requires VT-x (or the AMD equivilent). While processor support for this is the norm nowadays it's still often disabled by default which can be a pain if you need to get IT support to access bios setup on a machine. i386 hardware is so numerous and widely spread, that every tiny fraction of i386 users might be more users than half of our release architectures combined. It is not even clear whether this is just an exaggeration or might be literally true: i386 still gives 17281 popcon submissions, that is about a tenth of amd64, but it's also over 10 times the next highest port Now that probably doesn't reflect true usage, in particular users who install using images tend to miss out on the popcon question, but I still suspect that i386 is up there in the top few most used architectures.
Dependencies on obsolete puppet-common transitional package (potential mass bug filing).
The puppet source package, recently recently dropped the puppet-common binary package. This package has been a transitional dummy package since stretch. Unfortunately there are still a substantial number of packages depending on it. They are listed by maintainer at the end of this mail (the list is based on packages that currently have the issue in bullseye). I filed bugs for the first couple I spotted, but then started to wonder if, given that nearly all of the packages involved are maintained by the openstack team, a more centralised approach is better. If I get no response however I will go ahead with a mass bug filing so the testing autoremoval system can do it's thing. Debian Ruby Extras Maintainers ruby-rspec-puppet Debian OpenStack puppet-module-aboe-chrony puppet-module-antonlindstrom-powerdns puppet-module-aodh puppet-module-arioch-redis puppet-module-barbican puppet-module-ceilometer puppet-module-ceph puppet-module-cinder puppet-module-cloudkitty puppet-module-congress puppet-module-debian-archvsync puppet-module-deric-zookeeper puppet-module-designate puppet-module-glance puppet-module-gnocchi puppet-module-heat puppet-module-heini-wait-for puppet-module-horizon puppet-module-icann-quagga puppet-module-icann-tea puppet-module-ironic puppet-module-joshuabaird-ipaclient puppet-module-keystone puppet-module-magnum puppet-module-manila puppet-module-michaeltchapman-galera puppet-module-murano puppet-module-neutron puppet-module-nova puppet-module-octavia puppet-module-openstack-extras puppet-module-openstacklib puppet-module-oslo puppet-module-ovn puppet-module-panko puppet-module-placement puppet-module-puppetlabs-haproxy puppet-module-puppetlabs-rabbitmq puppet-module-puppetlabs-rsync puppet-module-rodjek-logrotate puppet-module-sahara puppet-module-swift puppet-module-theforeman-dns puppet-module-voxpupuli-alternatives puppet-module-voxpupuli-collectd puppet-module-voxpupuli-corosync puppet-module-voxpupuli-ssh-keygen puppet-module-vswitch PKG OpenStack puppet-module-adrienthebo-filemapper puppet-module-camptocamp-kmod puppet-module-camptocamp-openssl puppet-module-duritong-sysctl puppet-module-nanliu-staging puppet-module-puppetlabs-mongodb puppet-module-puppetlabs-tftp puppet-module-puppetlabs-vcsrepo puppet-module-richardc-datacat puppet-module-saz-rsyslog puppet-module-saz-ssh puppet-module-sbitio-monit Debian OpenStack puppet-module-puppet-community-mcollective
re: git-buildpackage to be autoremoved due to python2 transition
Relevant packages and bugs: 943107 git-buildpackage: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye This bug is not marked as rc. Nevertheless I believe that this bug report is in-fact a false positive. From what I can tell git-buildpackage, even in buster, does not (build-)depend on python 2 or any python 2 modules. It does build-depend on python-pydoctor, but according to a recently entry in the pydoctor changelog that package "is a Python application and not used as a module" It would make sense to change the build-dependency to pydoctor in the next upload, but it's probablly not worth making an upload just for that change. 937132 nevow: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye Depended on by pydoctor in testing, but not in unstable. Should stop being a problem for git-buildpackage when pydoctor migrates. 938622 tahoe-lafs: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye Listed as a "blocker" of the above bug but not currently in testing. Personally I advocate ignoring "blockers" that are not in testing, but I'm not sure if consensus has been reached on that. Bugs which you may notice which are now not so relevant any more because they have been fixed in sid (but not yet migrated): 950216 [git-buildpackage] missing xsltproc autopkg test dependency Fixed in sid; migration blocked by FTBFS due to pydoctor breakage (#949232). When pydoctor has migrated, reattempting build (eg by re-upload) should fix this. Builds happen in unstable, so there is no need to wait for pydoctor to migrate to testing before retrying the build. I just requested a retry and the package built succesfully. I'd expect it to migrate as soon as dak and britney process the binary. 949232/948831 [pydoctor] needs to depend on cachecontrol 952546 [pydoctor] d/copyright & DFSG issues 937421 [pydoctor] Python2 removal in sid/bullseye Should hopefully be fixed in a few days when pydoctor migrates to testing, i'm not seeing any obvious blockers for that right now.
re: Debian Buster will only be 54% reproducible (while we could be at >90%)
Because of their design, binNMUs are unreproducible, see #894441 [3] for the details (in short: binNMUs are not what they are ment to be: the source is changed and thrown away) To be specific, the source tree is extracted, then an entry is added to debian/changelog and then the package is built. This modified source tree is not retained. It seems to me that binnmus could be made reproducible by storing the debian/changelog modifications in the buildinfo, then re-applying it at reproduction time.
Re: Recreating history of a package
On 12/02/19 13:26, Ian Jackson wrote:
peter green writes ("Re: Recreating history of a package"):
https://github.com/plugwash/autoforwardportergit/blob/master/pooltogit will
take dscs in a pool structure and import them into git repos (one per source
package) using dgit, building the history based on the changelogs. It can even
follow history across source package renames.
It also has the ability to use snapshotsecure to download parent versions from
snapshot.debian.org , As the code stands it only uses that functionality to
request immediate parents of local versions, but it could be easily modified to
grab the entire history of the package (as defined by it's changelog).
Cool, thanks! Have you considered making a package of it ?
In it's present form it is specialized to the needs of autoforwardportergit, so
packaging it separately (if/when I get around to packaging autoforwardportergit
it will be packaged as part of that) in it's present form doesn't make much
sense. It would certainly be possible to generalize it, but that would require
thought/decisions on how best to do that.
Thinking more about the possibility of importing the entire history of a source
package it is more problematic than my off the cuff reply implied. It would be
easy to modify pooltogit to try to retrieve the entire history, but for a large
proportion of packages this would result in a failure to import for several
reasons.
1. Changelogs sometimes include versions that were never uploaded to Debian. I
suspect they also sometimes include versions that were uploaded but were
superseded before they made it to a snapshot.
2. Snapshot.debian.org is only offered over plain insecure http. For recent
versions the packages can be verified against the Packages/Sources files which
can in turn be verified with gpg but older versions are more problematic to
verify as the relevant packages/sources files are only signed with 1024 bit
keys or not signed at all. This is made worse by the fact that
snapshot.debian.org has an API to obtain the first snapshot a package is
available in but not any API to find the last snapshot it was available in.
3. Some packages aren't on snapshot.debian.org at all due to age.
4. Some packages are blocked on snapshot.debian.org due to license issues.
Re: Recreating history of a package
Alternatively if one wanted to get more sophisticated than just importing every version from snapshot in version number order, one might write something to look inside the package at the changelogs to try to discern the branch structure. https://github.com/plugwash/autoforwardportergit/blob/master/pooltogit will take dscs in a pool structure and import them into git repos (one per source package) using dgit, building the history based on the changelogs. It can even follow history across source package renames. It also has the ability to use snapshotsecure to download parent versions from snapshot.debian.org , As the code stands it only uses that functionality to request immediate parents of local versions, but it could be easily modified to grab the entire history of the package (as defined by it's changelog).
Re: Installer: 32 vs. 64 bit
Why are they creating 32-bit virtual machines? At least with virtualbox 32-bit VMs can run on any host. 64-bit VMs require VT-x which is all too often disabled in the BIOS.
What to do about packages with dead alioth lists as the maintainer.
Nearly 3 months ago there was a mass bug filing on packages with dead alioth lists as maintainer. Many of these bugs are still open with no maintainer response https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?include=subject%3Alists.alioth.debian.org;submitter=debian.axhn%40manchmal.in-ulm.de (note: it appears that the submitter of the bugs tried to usertag them but failed to actually do so) What should be done about these in the event that the maintainers don't sort it out? is it reasonable to make a NMU promoting the first co-maintainer to maintainer? is it reasonable to make a NMU orphaning the package? (and if-so should the list of co-maintainers be left in place?) In either case should a final warning be sent to the package's co-maintainers?
Re: RFR: email about regressions [was: Dealing with ci.d.n for package regressions]
> In my perception, the biggest reason is a social one. The is resistance > to the fact that issues with autopkgtests out of one's control can block > one's package (this is quite different than in Ubuntu). Can you elaborate on how this is different than in Ubuntu? It sounds pretty similar to me, except for being a delay instead of a block. Or did you mean that the social consequences are different? (note: i'm only loosely familiar with ubuntu, please correct me if any of this is wrong). Debian has a strong concept of package maintainership. Each maintainer (or sometimes team) essentially "owns" a package and is supposed to take responsibility for fixing issues in that package. Library maintainers can NMU their rdeps but there are time-consuming procedures surrounding that and of course the library maintainer may not be enough of an expert on the rdep to fix it. So a big social question for library maintainers becomes "to what extent do issues in reverse dependencies get to block updates to my library?" And the answer in recent times (particularly since the introduction of "smooth updates" to Britney) been "for the most part they don't". The library migrates to testing and the rdeps remain buggy in testing, if the bug is rc and left unfixed for long enough they will be removed, if the bug is not rc then it may just persist into the release. Enforcing autopkgtests would radically change that dynamic. Further Debian has this strange permissions system where any dd can technically upload any package and anyone can technically close any bug but if you want something more unusual doing you have to go through the small handful of people who have permission to do it. I expect a lot of DDs are worried that overriding a broken autopkgtest will fall into the latter category. My understanding is that Ubuntu has a rather different social structure. Universe is an explicit second class citizen (does the ubuntu autopkgtest implementation allow universe packages to block main packages? if so how do you typically respond to that?), individual packages don't really have maintainers, many developers are paid by canonical etc.
Re: Removing packages perhaps too aggressively?
If you do reintroduce it, please note the extra steps (reopening bugs in particular) On that note one thing that doesn't seem to be easy/well documented is how to go about finding the bugs that affected a package at the time of it's removal. If I go to the bugs page for the package and select "archived and unarchived" I see a bunch of resolved bugs but other than opening them up individually I don't see a good way to tell the difference between ones that were actually fixed and ones that were open at the time of the removal.
autoforwardportergit call for testing.
I have been working on a tool called Autoforwardportergit for automating the process or merging downstream changes with new versions from Debian. A downstream in this case could be anything from your private modified versions of some packages to a major derivative distribution. It was created for use by Raspbian but I have been working to generalize and document it such that others can use it to. I have just written a tutorial which demonstrates how to set up and use it. At this point I would really appreciate people trying it out and telling me what they think. It can be found at https://github.com/plugwash/autoforwardportergit . The tutorial can be found at https://github.com/plugwash/autoforwardportergit/blob/master/tutorial/README.md If there is sufficient interest I will package it and upload it to Debian.
Re: Alioth: the future of mailing lists
On 17/09/17 10:38, Alexander Wirt wrote: If you currently manage a user-support or discussion list, or run one of the big teams Just because a team isn't big or established doesn't mean they don't need a place to discuss issues relating to their activities, some of which do not relate to any one particular package. Contributers should be able to self-organise within the project and for many dds email is their primary means of communication. Sure you can just cc everyone involved but then there is no archive and no way for new contributers to jump in. I find the current proposal to drop alioth mailing lists without a real replacement to be a major step backwards.
Re: Summary of the 2038 BoF at DC17
Firstly: developers trying to be *too* clever are likely to only make things worse - don't do it! Whatever you do in your code, don't bodge around the 32-bit time_t problem. *Don't* store time values in weird formats, and don't assume things about it to "avoid" porting problems. These are all going to cause pain in the future as we try to fix problems. For the time being in your code, *use* time_t and expect an ABI break down the road. This is the best plan *for now*. I find this argument unconvincing. If a library is new or is going to have an ABI break anyway then by moving to 64-bit time in it's interfaces now it can avoid another ABI break down the road. Similarly if someone is introducing a new version of a file format anyway moving to 64-bit time at the same time as making other changes avoids breaking things twice.
Re: Re: source-only uploads
Andrey Rahmatullin writes ("Re: source-only uploads"):
> On Fri, Sep 01, 2017 at 12:47:41PM +0200, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> > Just yesterday I completely broke a key package used to build
> > many Java packages, and I couldn't even rebuild it to fix the issue.
>
> Why? Does it B-D on itself?
And, if it does, can it not be built using stretch ?
Ian.
I don't know about Java but I had an issue with freepascal not so long ago
(back when Jessie was stable and stretch was testing).
A change in glibc broke freepascal on powerpc stretch/sid to the point it
wouldn't install. Freepascal needs itself to build. Sids freepascal would not
build in jessie due to using newer debhelper features.
To fix this I had to take sid's freepascal, apply the upstream patch for the
glibc issue, hack it up so it would build in a jessie environment, build it in
a jessie environment on the porterbox, install the binaries from that build
into a sid environmentin qemu (because self-built packages can't be installed
on porterboxes).
This kind of stuff does happen and we need to be able to deal with it.
Having said that I believe the default should be to throw away maintainer-built
binaries, they should only be accepted if the developer explicitly asks for it.
Re: Re: Making Debian ports less burdensome
I would have thought porters would be following the buildd/piuparts/CI pages for their port (where available) and thus would not need to be notified about arch-specific FTBFS or testing issues. If porters are relying on package maintainers or some automation to notify them instead of being pro-active about builds and testing, that isn't going to produce a high-quality port. There is a tool for checking uninstallable and out of date packages already: The problem with the current tools is they don't do a good job of: 1: seperating out port specific issues verses general issues. 2: seperating out issues with packages that actually matter* verses low popcon leaf packages that could be removed with minimal impact. 3: seperating out very new issues verses older issues without bug reports verses issues that are already being actively discussed verses stale issues with bug reports but no patches verses stale issues with bug reports and patches. 4: linking the automatic detection of an issue to the bug report on the issue (afaik the dose pages have no mechanism for this, the buildd pages have "failing reasons" but they are little used because only buildd admins can set them). Also linking together reports of essentially the same issue from multiple sources (i.e. package is uninstallable *because* it failed to rebuild for a transition). 5: in the dose case seperating out arch specific packages (which are not allowed to be uninstallable) from arch all packages (which are allowed to be uninstallable), it is indicated in the list with an [all] tag but spotting the handful of uninstallable arch specific packages in the much larger list of uninstallable arch all packages for testing isn't easy (for unstable the information is even less useful because of the massive ammount of entries that have nothing to do with ports). 6: indicating issues that are both blocking transitions (so need to be dealt with urgently) and are specific to a handful of architectures. Improving the existing tools might help with some of the issues but I can see advantages in a porter-focussed tool that collects information from multiple sources. * Exactly where to draw the line on "actually matter" is potentially a subject of some debate.
Re: Who is the most energetic DD
In the past I don't believe any person can maintain over than 500 packages by oneself. However when I'm actually analysing Sources.gz from Debian Mirror, astonishing things emerges. There is really DDs who maintain over than 500 packages in main section. You mean there are DD's listed on the maintainer list for more than 500 packages. In the past before "team uploads" were formalised it used to be common practice to add yourself to the maintainer list when uploading a team-maintained package you were on the team for but not on the maintainer list for. Even if you had no particular interest in that package. People working on getting large transitions to go through can end up touching a lot of packages.
Re: Re: is the whole unstable still broken by gcc-5?
The unusual problems with the g++-5 transition are: Another big one is the descision was taken NOT to change the sonames when making sub-transitions. I presume this was done to avoid deviating from upstream sonmaes but the flip side has been that major sub-transitions have become "all or nothing". Afaict this is the biggest contributor to the upgrade pain that testing and unstable users are experiancing and it will also likely be a major source of pain down the line for people trying to migrate from jessie to stretch.
scripts for merging local changes
I just hacked together some scripts (the code is in two parts, the
overall control code is in bash script while the changelog processing is
in python) to deal with merging local changes (provided in the form of a
debdiff) with a new version from Debian (provided in the form of a dsc)
I still need to handle some corner cases like preventing a buildup of
notices when forward porting from a forward port and handling the case
where the local part of the version number needs to go somewhere other
than the end to satisfy version constraints.
Pabs suggested that something like this should go in devscripts but it
will need a fair bit of cleanup and generalisation before that can happen.
Anyway here it is in it's first rough-cut form. Please feel free to
comment/criticise/improve
autoforwardporter.sh
Description: application/shellscript
#!/usr/bin/python3
#(C) 2015 Peter Michael Green plugw...@debian.org
#This software is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied warranty. In
#no event will the authors be held liable for any damages arising from the use
#of this software.
#
#Permission is granted to anyone to use this software for any purpose, including
#commercial applications, and to alter it and redistribute it freely, subject to
#the following restrictions:
#
#1. The origin of this software must not be misrepresented; you must not claim.
#that you wrote the original software. If you use this software in a product,
#an acknowledgment in the product documentation would be appreciated but is.
#not required.
#
#2. Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be
#misrepresented as being the original software.
#
#3. This notice may not be removed or altered from any source distribution.
from debian import changelog
import sys
oldchangelogfile = sys.argv[1]
newchangelogfile = sys.argv[2]
distribution = sys.argv[3]
date = sys.argv[4]
f = open(oldchangelogfile)
c = changelog.Changelog(f)
entries = []
#unfortunately the changelog module doesn't let us directly access it's list
#of changes, only an iterator over it, so we have to make our own list.
#so we can perform a reverse iteration (the changelog module gives us the most
#recent entry first, we want oldest first)
for entry in c:
entries.append(entry)
newf = open(newchangelogfile)
newc = changelog.Changelog(newf)
#mutter (3.14.4-1+rpi1) stretch-staging; urgency=medium
print(newc.package+' ('+str(newc.get_version())+'+rpi1) '+distribution+'; urgency=medium')
print()
for entry in reversed(entries):
print(' [changes brought forward from '+str(entry.version)+' by '+entry.author+' at '+entry.date+']')
lines = entry.changes()[:] #copy this so we don't modify the libraries
#version of it.
while (lines[0] == ''):
del lines[0]
for line in lines:
print(line)
print(' -- Raspbian forward porter r...@raspbian.org '+date)
print()
Re: Proposal: enable stateless persistant network interface names
The main downside is that by nature the device names are not familiar to current admins yet. For BIOS provided names you get e. g. ens0, for PCI slot names enp1s1 (ethernet) or wlp3s0 (wlan). But that's a necessary price to pay (biosdevname names look similar). The stability of these names appears to be an illusion. The path based names use the PCI bus number as their root. PCI bus numbers are dynamically allocated as the bios enumerates the busses. Other than the root PCI bus they aren't a fundamental chactertistic of the hardware. Installing or removing an expansion card can add or remove PCI busses from the system and hence risks changing bus numbers. I'm sure I even recall one case of a laptop with switchable graphics where switching graphics setup changed the PCI bus numbers. Someone else has raised concerns about the stability of bios based names over bios updates. I feel this change is likely to make things better for companies that want to deploy images to loads of identical machines and rarely modify a system but worse for those of us with more ad-hoc hardware arrangements. The current system really works quite well for individual machines with ad-hoc changes, my interfaces have consistent easy to remember names regardless of where I plug them in and if I do have to replace an interface card it's easy enough to open the persistent net rules file and give the replacement interface the number of the interface it replaced. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/554dbc0f.3070...@p10link.net
Re: Debian Archive architecture removals
Perhaps we need a political decision here?
I think it's mostly a practical one, as I don't see much disagreement
about the objectives here: What is the best way to arrange things to
support 'released, supported, all-equal' ports vs 'best-effort, let
them get out of sync' 2nd-class ports (both on the way up ('upcoming')
and on the way down ('legacy')).
It seems to me that second class ports can be divided into three rough
categories, 'new ports that are up and coming' (arm64 and ppc64el were
in this category until recently, x32 could arguablly be included too),
'legacy ports where maintinance has slipped to the point they got kicked
out of the set of first class ports' (alpha, m68k, etc) and 'ports that
despite being around for years never made it to the set of first class
ports' (hurd-i386, ppc64, sparc64, sh4, powerpcspe, argubally x32)
Now on to the political side.
What should the expectations of maintainers of second class ports be?
Should they expect reasonable patches to be merged? who gets to define
reasonable? what if anything should their recourse be if/when
maintainers either ignore or activately stonewall them? is it ok for
maintainers of second class ports to NMU when they are ignored by
package maintainers? if package mtainers stonewall maintainers of second
class ports should they reffer the matter to the technical committe?
Should porter expectations be different between upcoming, legacy,
and never made it ports? should reports be clearly labelled so that
maintainers can quickly tell if the reported problem relates to a first
class or a second class port? should second class ports be labelled
as unofficial?
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Re: Re: Debian Archive architecture removals
Was that before or after arm64 and ppc64el migrated off ports to the main archive? I'm pretty sure ppc64el was never on debian-ports, it went straight from an IBM run repository to the main archive. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55481c57.4010...@p10link.net
Re: Re: Qt4's status and Qt4's webkit removal in Stretch
algobox This one looks like a (partial) false positive: the outdated 0.8 source is still around in Sid since the 0.9 version doesn’t build under sparc (because it can’t…), Looks like qtwebkit-opensource-src needs a symbols file update for sparc. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5544e79b.9080...@p10link.net
Re: r-base-core upload to unstable does not respect freeze policy
Hmmm, this is what I missed. :-( I guess the only chance is to upload to t-p-u, right? Afaict you could do a source amd64 arm64 armel armhf i386 mips mipsel powerpc ppc64el s390x upload to unstable so that binaries for all release architectures were supplied by you rather than by buildds. It would be a PITA to do (build all the binaries, bring them back to a single box and mergechanges them into a single upload) but i'm pretty sure it would work. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546e88c1.7020...@p10link.net
Re: Removing 2048 bit keys from the Debian keyrings
Jonathan McDowell wrote: I would ask that DDs make some effort to help those with weak keys get their new, stronger keys signed. Please sign responsibly[4], If you have signed someones old key is it considered responsible to sign their new key based on a transition statement signed by the old key? or is a new face-to-face meeting required? I've seen plenty of (sometimes conflicting) advice on signing keys of a person you have never signed keys for before but not much on the transition situation. (note: this is a general question to consider, I'm not personally in a position where it would apply) My understanding is that the NSA and similar organisations can probablly crack 1024 bit keys but the cost of doing so (assuming there hasn't been some secret mathematical breakthrough) is likely sufficiently high that it would be cheaper to infiltrate debian the old-fasioned way (false passports, putting agents through the NM process etc). Is that understanding correct? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5403149f.40...@p10link.net
Re: gnutls28 transition
Dimitri John Ledkov wrote: Hello all, gmp has been recently re-licensed and all architectures and ports have the updated gmp in jessie/sid. Well, all but powerpcspe x32 both of which recently have negative slope on their build status graphs. Thus GPLv2 and LGPLv3 compatible software packages can link against gnutls28. Should we start transition to gnutls28 by default, for all packages that are compatible? Can powerpcspe x32 porters try to get latest gmp built? Personally I'd add a (build-)depends on the relicensed gmp in the next gnutls28 upload. That way packages can (build-)depend on the new gnutls and be assured of getting a GPLv2 compatible version. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53659469.8060...@p10link.net
RSA vs ECDSA (Was: Bits from keyring-maint: Pushing keyring updates. Let us bury your old 1024D key!)
I am not sure what's the timeframe for GnuPG 2.1.0[1] release, but would it be possible to skip the RSA and go directly for ECDSA, before we start deprecating DSA? Or at least have an option to do so? (Well, unless GnuPG 2.1 release is too much far in the future.) IMO we need to phase out 1024 bit RSA/DSA keys as soon as reasonablly practical. Even if gnupg 2.1 was released tomorrow we would still have the problem of Debian stable releases and other distros carrying older versions. Also ECDSA shares with DSA the serious disadvantage over RSA that making signatures on a system with a broken RNG can reveal the key. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5316bc2b.7040...@p10link.net
re: conflict between system user and normal user
What is the correct way to deal with this kind of problem ? I cannot find in the policy something about conflict between system and non-system user. I don't think there is much that can reall be done to fix the fundamental problem which is that system users and regular users have to live in the same namespace causing a risk of conflicts. There are two things I can see you could do to impreove the situation with your package. 1: Fail early, it's better to have preinst fail than it is to start creating stuff with wrong permissions/ownership. 2: Choose a less generic name that is less likely to cause conflicts. Do you plan to use this user only for the db? if so tango-db might make sense, if not maybe something like tango-control-system. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52f4b091.5020...@p10link.net
Re: amd64 arch and optimization flags?
this is dangerous it changes results, sometimes significantly (e.g. for complex numbers), only use if you don't care about correctness or have verified its still correct. IME, audio processing software can get away with it. Csound and its 400+ library of opcodes has been built with this option and I have had no complaints yet. Quite likely yes. What is dangerous about this options? I see a warning in the gcc docs, Floating point numbers are an approximation of the real numbers. IEEE 754 defines the format of the floating point numbers (on all common modern platforms) and also sets rules for how accurate that approximation should be and how exceptional conditions should be handled. -ffast-math tells the compiler that you are more interested in speed than accuracy, repeatability and handling of exceptional conditions so it may use methods that don't follow the precise rules laid down in IEEE 754 but how can I know if my program relies on a precise definition of IEEE floating point? With difficulty, you really need to understand what exactly the code is doing and how senstive it is to accuracy in the calculations. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52f4b4a5.3070...@p10link.net
Re: Bits from the Release Team (Jessie freeze info)
Johannes Schauer wrote: Until these two issues are fixed we will not be able to get an algorithmic answer to the question of what constitutes the minimum required set of packages. There is also the complication of what I will call non-key self building compilers. fpc is an example These are not needed to bootstrap the core of debian but if one wants to bootstrap all of debian they will need to be built. Since the only way to build them is with themselves they cannot be bootstrapped natively even with the help of build profiles. So the only way to bootstrap them is to either cross-build them or start with a binary from upstream. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/526c4c1c.3060...@p10link.net
Re: skipping bioinformatics on some architectures ?
Right now, we have the problem that an upload of a previously compiled source package that’s “totally unimportant” will be sorted before all source packages in state “uncompiled”. Only if we also get a waiver that allows testing to go out-of-sync for these arches. Otherwise, no thanks. For release architectures built by the the debian.org build services I agree that out of date packages should continue to be prioritised. If due to short term conditions a release architecture is behind on building then it's usually* more important to keep packages up to date so they don't block testing transitions than it is to attempt to build packages the architecture has never built before. If a release architecture is getting behind on building on a long term basis then IMO either more buildd hardware should be obtained or the port should lose it's release status. But that isn't what we are talking about here, we are talking about an architecture that was kicked out of testing and kicked out of the official archive years ago, degraded to an almost unusuable state and is now attempting to become usable again. For them it's probablly far more important to build as many important but not yet built pckages as possible than it is to make sure every package they have built is up to date. * Though there are corner cases where a new package is actually pretty important because some other package has been updated to have a dependency on it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52629e9d.5030...@p10link.net
re: Compatibility of libs for Berkeley DB (libdb5.1-dev or libdb4.8-dev)
I cannot install libdb4.8-dev + libdb4.8, because it conflicts with libdb5.1. This does not seem to be true, the dev packages conflict but afaict the libraries themselves (at least the versions from debian squeeze and wheezy) do not. So as long as you don't need libdb5.1-dev installed you should be fine. If you need to use other dev packages that depend on the db dev packages to build bitcoind then I would suggest building it in a squeeze chroot. Once you have built it it should be easy enough to install required binary libraries on your wheezy system as unlike dev packages they rarely conflict. Please direct further queries to debian-user. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52544833.7060...@p10link.net
Is udev's new network naming really as stable as they claim? (was: Re: overriding udev rules)
They are stable as long as the kernel and the hardware do not change too much; e.g. enabling the other graphics card in a hybrid setup sometimes adds a PCIe bus, so all names shift around. Or adding something like a firewire card which happens to be based on a PCIe to PCI bridge chip would also add a bus and therefore has the potential for names to shift arround. The new scheme seems to have the same problem the original kernel scheme had but moved one level up. Instead of network names depending on the order in which the kernel enumerated network adaptors they now depend on the order in which the BIOS enumerated PCI busses* Is that an improvement over just letting the kernel assign names? is it an improvement over debian's scheme? For servers the answer is probablly yes, servers often have a lot of network adaptors, adaptors may be replaced by maintinance personell who are different from those setting up the OS and the chances of people adding or removing hardware that creates extra PCI busses is pretty low. For desktops on the other hand i'm inclined to belive the answer is no. Desktops rarely have more than one or two network adaptors but they are much more likely than servers to have things like graphics cards, firewire cards, serial cards etc added or removed which can mess with the PCI bus numbers. * in quotes because on modern hardware a logical PCI bus may or may not represent a real PCI bus. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52413f50.9070...@p10link.net
re: Non-identical files with identical md5sums on Debian systems?
I do occasionally check for identical files on different systems by comparing their md5sums. So, just out of interest, could someone tell me (how to find out) how many non-identical files with identical md5sums there are there on a typical (say, amd64) Debian system? Assuming the output of md5 is random uncorrelated 128 bit binary numbers and making a couple of other approximations we can approximate the number with the formula. ((n*n-1)/2)/(2^128) Where n is the number of unique files on your system. I used the command cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | wc -l to get an approximation of the number of debian files on my main debian system with lots of stuff installed. I will assume all these files are unique. plugwash@debian:~$ cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | wc -l 304431 So the expected number of md5 collisions would be approximately ((304431*304430)/2)/(2^128) Plugging that into octave gives us an answer of octave:1 ((304431*304430)/2)/(2^128) ans = 1.3618e-28 The bottom line is under practical conditions the only way you are going to see two files with the same md5 is if someone went out of their way to create them and send them to you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/520180ac.90...@p10link.net
Re: epoch fix?
But either way, the problem is that .dsc and .deb version numbers are not used only by dpkg. Lots of tools use them, inside and outside of Debian packages, inside and outside of Debian infrastructure. We cannot be sure that they all use dpkg's own interfaces to do so (e.g. dpkg --compare-versions, perl -MDpkg::Version). Yes Not to mention that just because the debian archive only cares about version numbers within the last few releases does not mean other tools may not care about maintaining sane ordering over longer periods. I strongly belive that a proposal that changes version numbers in a way that breaks the assumption that ab and bc implies ac is a horrible idea and a cure worse than the disease. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5189aa24.8020...@p10link.net
Re: History of Debian bootstrapping/porting efforts
Since yesterday, my tools can now finally turn the whole dependency graph Does this whole dependency graph include the implicit build-dependency every package has on build-essential? The above case for example has no alternative solution as the cycle is of length two and has no other way of braking it than building pkg-config without libglib2.0-dev. Since this is unlikely to be possible I don't see why it would be impossible to hack up the glib source package to not rely on pkg-config. Whether that is a good idea or not is another matter. and since the assumption is that only build dependencies might be dropped when necessary but not binary dependencies, a possible solution might be cross compilation. It seems pretty clear to me that there is a core of software that will need to be cross-built as the first stage of bootstrapping a port. Obviously essential and build-essential fall into this category but while i'm sure there are ways one could hack away the cycles and make things like pkg-config and debhelper natively bootstrapable I don't think there is much point in doing so. What i'd ideally like to see is for a tool to be able to generate a directed acyclic graph of build jobs (some cross, some native, there should be an option in the tool as to whether to preffer native or cross-build jobs) that takes the user from having no packages for the target architecture to having a set of bootstrap packages that can be used to seed the regular building process. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/50aef1f4.6040...@p10link.net
library linking problems with multiarch cross-building
My previous experiments with multiarch cross-building had run into lots of build-dependency and tool problems and as a result I hadn't got arround to actually building anything beyond trivial test programs. Unfortunately I have now discovered that when I try to link against some libraries I get link errors. root@debian:/# arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc test.c -lglib-2.0 /usr/lib/gcc/arm-linux-gnueabihf/4.7/../../../../arm-linux-gnueabihf/bin/ld: warning: libpcre.so.3, needed by /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libglib-2.0.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link) /usr/lib/gcc/arm-linux-gnueabihf/4.7/../../../../arm-linux-gnueabihf/bin/ld: warning: libpthread.so.0, needed by /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libglib-2.0.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link) /usr/lib/gcc/arm-linux-gnueabihf/4.7/../../../../arm-linux-gnueabihf/bin/ld: warning: librt.so.1, needed by /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libglib-2.0.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link) /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libglib-2.0.so: undefined reference to `pthread_rwlock_wrlock@GLIBC_2.4' Any thoughts on what could be causing this and how best to fix it? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/506f6d07.7090...@postgrad.manchester.ac.uk
thoughts on using multi-arch based cross-building
I've been attempting to use multi-arch for cross-building packages for raspbian (a debian derivative I am working on for armv6 hardfloat) and run into a few things which I thought i'd share and/or ask about. Build-depends installation: apt-get build-dep is fine if you are building an unmodified package from a repo but it's of no use if you have modified the build-dependencies to make them satisfiable. dpkg-checkbuilddeps doesn't tell me what architecture the packages need to be for and i'm not sure it can (since to do so it would need to know whether packages that are not installed are multi-arch foreign or not). Does a tool exist that can be told install the build-depends needed to build the debianised source tree in directory x for architecture y? if not IMO such a tool (or a new option in an existing tool) needs to be created. Pkg-config: A soloution needs to be found for this, so-far I have worked arround by hacking the package to be multi-arch foreign and then manually creating the symlink to the crosswrapper but there has to be a better soloution. Packages that need a specific gcc version: Sometimes packages need to be built using a non-default gcc version. We would rather they didn't but i'm sure there will always be such cases. Conventionally in such cases I've added a build-depends on gcc-version version and then set CC to gcc-version but this obviously isn't suitable for cross-building. Setting the CC environment variable is easy to fix (set it to triplet-gcc-version which afaict is fine for both native and cross building) but I can't think of a good and simple soloution to the build-dependency problem since the package name for the cross-compiler depends on the architecture. Arch all development dependency packages: In debian there are some development dependency packages, typically packages that depend on the latest version of a library. Since these packages don't contain anything that is actually architecture specific they are usually arch all. One example is tcl-dev. The problem is that dpkg/apt always treat arch all packages the same as packages for the native architecture making these arch all packages useless for cross-building. I see two possible soloutions to this 1: make those dependency packages arch any. This will take up a bit of archive space but since the packages in question are empty anyway it shouldn't be too bad. 2: introduce a concept of effective architecture(s) for arch all packages. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5068586a.50...@p10link.net
nacl and CPU frequency.
I'm trying to get nacl built on more architectures in debian, in particular I want to see it build on arm*. In order to build successfully nacl needs to determine the CPU frequency (the CPU frequency determined at build time is not used in the final binaries afaict but if it's not determined then the build will fail as it will consider the implementation broken and if it can't find any non-broken implementations it won't build). Currently the generic implementations (there are also some CPU specific implementations) do this by looking at various locations in /proc and /sys, specifically (in order) /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/clock_tick /proc/cpuinfo If it fails to find the info in /sys or /proc it then falls back to trying lsattr and psrinfo but neither of theese seem to exist in current debian. Unfortunately it seems /sys/devices/cpu/cpu0 doesn't exist on all systems (even if /sys is mounted) and while /proc/cpuinfo always seems to exist it doesn't always have CPU frequency information. Now for my questions (the first is directed at developers in general, the second is directed at Sergiusz but if others know the answer I wouldn't mind them asking it) Is there a portable way of determining CPU frequency in debian? Do you known how important it is to have an accurate CPU frequency determination for nacl. e.g. if true CPU frequency can't be determined would it be ok to use bogomips instead? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/505dcb22.70...@p10link.net
Re: nacl and CPU frequency.
Russell Coker wrote: On Sun, 23 Sep 2012, peter green plugw...@p10link.net wrote: In order to build successfully nacl needs to determine the CPU frequency (the CPU frequency determined at build time is not used in the final binaries afaict but if it's not determined then the build will fail as it will consider the implementation broken and if it can't find any non-broken implementations it won't build). If the build process is trying to discover information that it then discards then why not just patch it to not do so? It's not the build process itself doing the determination, it's the code being built and tested (as I said the build process tries various implementations until it finds one that works), So sure I could patch the build process to force it to build the generic implementation without testing it but if it then doesn't work for many users I won't really have gained much. Surely you as the DD can determine which architectures aren't broken Not being able to read the clockspeed doesn't seem to be determined by debian architecture, it seems to be kernel related. e.g. on my beagleboard XM I can see the clocksepeed in /sys/ but on my imx53 I can't. On my amd64 laptop I can't see the speed in /sys but I can see it in /proc/cpuinfo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/505de535.9040...@p10link.net
Re: nacl and CPU frequency.
On 22/09/12 15:28, peter green wrote: I'm trying to get nacl built on more architectures in debian, in particular I want to see it build on arm*. In order to build successfully nacl needs to determine the CPU frequency I think you need to analyse what it's doing with the CPU frequency, because on most modern hardware the frequency changes due to power saving and other stuff. It would appear that nacl is designed to have a concept of measuring elapsed time in CPU cycles. But when measurements in true CPU cycles (obtained using inline assembler) are not available it falls back to using time values from the OS and multiplying them by the number of CPU cycles per second. This appears to be used for measuring performance of various things. I therefore conclude that if it's not returning elapsed times in true CPU cycles it probablly doesn't matter much if the supposed CPU speed and the real CPU speed are not exactly the same. As such unless someone objects I plan to patch the code to fallback to using bogomips as a psuedo CPU speed if true CPU speed cannot be determined. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/505de779.9010...@p10link.net
assumptions about the build environment.
While working on debian one thing I have not managed to find is documentation on what packages can and can't assume about the build environment. Does such documentation exist and if not should it be created. Some specific cases i'm wondering about: I just discovered that on my beagleboard XM (under armhf sid) nacl (which previously build on a debian experimental armhf buildd but not a debian unstable armhf buildd) will build if /sys is mounted but will not build if it is not mounted. Can packages assume that /sys will be mounted in the build environment or not? IIRC it is generally established that packages are not allowed to rely on an internet connection during build but if one is present are they allowed to assume it's non-broken. I recently came accross a package ( sslh ) which fails to build in the presense of nxdomain hijacking. Is that a bug? Some time ago I found that a package (I think it was openjdk but I don't remember for sure) which relied on uname -r such that linux32 had to be used to build it in an i386 chroot on an amd64. However since then I'm pretty sure i've seen similar cases with other packages on other architectures being treated as bugs. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/505cbf60.5020...@p10link.net
Re: assumptions about the build environment.
peter green wrote: Some time ago I found that a package (I think it was openjdk but I don't remember for sure) which relied on uname -r sorry I meam -m not -r -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/505cc36b.6010...@p10link.net
re: dpkg-buildpackage now sets DEB_BUILD_HOST etc for you?
Now, you can build packages without using dpkg-buildpackage by calling rules directly, and in that case the rules file would need to call dpkg-architecture, but someone would have to convince me that that was an interface worth supporting for non-native builds The big reason it's worth supporting IMO is that with most packages you can resume after a failld build by manually running debian/rules build. When fixing compile errors in a large package I don't want to have to restart the build from scratch after every file I fix. Of course I will do a proper build with dpkg-buildpackage at the end but only after i've fixed all the compile errors. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f74b2cd.5070...@p10link.net
suggestion: build-blockers field in control file
Some packages have runtime dependencies on packages that they do not have corresponding build-dependencies for. This leads to the building of uninstallable packages which in turn leads to problems with testing transition of packages. Currently there are two workarounds for this situation 1: manually alter the package's architecture list to limit building to those architectures where runtime dependencis 2: add an artificial build-dependency Neither is ideal, the first must be manually undone if and when the dependencies do become available. The second is an abuse of the build-depends field (the package isn't REALLY needed for building) and causes pacakges to be unnessacerally installed in build environments (both on autobuilders and for those manually building the package) wasting time and network bandwidth. I therefore propose a new control field for source packages build-blockers. Autobuilder management systems should generally treat build-blockers the same as build-depends but the systems that actually do the building do not need to take any notice of them. What do others think? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ed5314b.1070...@p10link.net
re: what if a package needs to be recalled
Just curious, let's say version 15.xxx of a package is released but then found to be faulty, and upstream isn't releasing a new version soon. OK.. faulty is a rather vauge term Can the developer somehow recall it? Not really, it's probablly theoretically possible to remove a package from debian and then reupload a lower version but it would require the intervention of the ftpmasters and it wouldn't achive much because as you say people would have already upgraded. Or he can repackage 14.xxx as 15.xxx.1 but then other packages depending on 14 etc. will get the version wrong and the numbering will be misleading. It's possible to use a version number like 15.xxx+really14.xxx but it's ugly to say the least It's also possible to use an epoch e.g. 1:14.xxx, downside of that approch is that the package has to carry the epoch forever. Afaict it's pretty rare that a package that is so badly broken that reversion is considred the only reasonable course of action makes it into debian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ec994c2.6070...@postgrad.manchester.ac.uk
Bug#601455: general: can't stop daemon using /etc/init.d/foo stop when, disabled via /etc/default/foo
Many packages seem to provide ENABLE/DISABLE variables in /etc/default/foo, providing a confusing red herring for this task --- a second method which does not work nearly as well, as you pointed out Though there are some situations where it is nessacery. Consider vtund for example which has seperate enable/disable flags for running in server and client modes (with the potential for multiple seperate client instances). A complicating factor is that the sysadmin may already have customized some ENABLE/DISABLE settings and a move like this should not override their settings. So perhaps packages should stop advertising the ENABLE/DISABLE vars in /etc/default/package, but continue to respect them when set. regardless of any plan to discourage use of the /etc/default mechanism (I think removing it altogether is not really reasonable) I think the original bug of being unable to stop a dameon after disabling it in /etc/default still needs to be fixed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e9ff3ee.1090...@p10link.net
Re: python 2.7 in wheezy
Ummm ... don't we strongly encourage all package maintainers to read d-d-a? If not, we should. It is very low traffic and sometimes important. Sure: “All developers are expected to be subscribed to this list.” [0], but Oliver was referring to “users”. On the other hand, his example mail (To: duplic...@packages.debian.org) is obviously sent to developers, so I'd guess no harm is done for our users. Remember the removal mails also end up in the history on packages.qa.debian.org which afaict is the main point of reference for those who are trying to find out what is going on with a package. Not everyone who has an interest in why the package they rely on is suddenly no longer in testing is a dd or a package maintainer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e8f9a4f.80...@p10link.net
Re: Using -Werror in CFLAGS for a debian package build
(note: this message quotes from multiple mails by different people) WouterFirst and foremost, I do not believe that setting -Werror in a Wouterdebian/rules file is the best way to maintain a package; -Werror is a Wouterdevelopment option which should not be used in a release build (which a WouterDebian package is). When a package sets -Werror in its debian/rules Wouterfile, it *will* FTBFS when the default compiler is changed, while not Wouternecessarily breaking the package itself. I don't think it adds value. The thing is that there are some warnings that really SHOULD be errors as code that generates them is almost certainly wrong. Generally a build failure is less serious than a subtuly broken package. A package maintainer could try and identify such warnings individually but I don't think many maintainers would be willing to go to that effort. Maybe what is really needed is a -Werror=serious or similar option that turns the worst warnings (stuff like converting a pointer to/from an integer of the wrong size, incompatible implicit declarations and other stuff that indicates something is SERIOUSLY wrong) into errors while leaving minor warnings (things that really just indicate that the code could do with a little cleanup) as warnings. RussI was a bit dubious about it as well, for the reasons you state, but Russplease note that GCC 4.6 introduced a major new warning about set but Russunused variables and, so far, every large or medium C code base that I Russhave has had at least once instance of that warning. And I'm usually Russpretty picky about such things. Russ RussIf -Werror had not been disabled for this warning, my guess is that nearly Russevery package using -Wall -Werror not previously tested with 4.6 would RussFTBFS. Is this really THAT big a deal? Is it really worth making dubious changes to build dependencies (gcc in this case but a similar saga is going on with dash) to temporarlly hide (and therefore make harder to fix) FTBFS bugs that are usually trivial to fix in the package that suffers from them (worst case you can just change the cflags in this case or set CONFIG_SHELL in the dash/configure case. Yes it may mean some packages may need a sourceful nmu rather than a binnmu to transition but is that really such a huge deal? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd93475.8010...@p10link.net
Re: piuparts-MBF: prompting due to modified conffiles which where not modified by the user
So, what do you suggest for this? Of course, this file _is_ a conffile (i.e. should never be automatically overwritten, so just moving it over to /var/lib is not just compiling with a different path set). If I don't automatically upgrade the file, users will end up with a confused daemon unable and unwilling to move on. How should I proceed with this? My understanding is in this situation the correct soloution is not to ship the file in the package at all and then have the maintainer scripts create/edit it on install/upgrade. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
re: What happens to snapshot.debian.net?
I am trying to get ridge on the problem with lvm2. Therefore I have to get some old packages from snapshot.debian.net. Unfortunately it seems to be broken for some time now. While the syntax you use doesn't seem to work anymore and /archive appears empty it seems you can still browse directly to a year. e.g. for 2009 http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2009/ (the trailing / matters) interestingly it appears the requests are being proxied to hikaru.fsij.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: mass bug filing for undefined sn?printf use
IMHO any bugs filed merely due to the presence of the code without the means to trigger the error in normal builds should be wishlist. What is particularlly insiduous about this issue is that it could easilly be activated by accident if the maintainer or a NMUer builds and uploads a new version of the package on a system/chroot that happens to have hardening-wrapper installed (most likely left over from building a previous package). IMO because it can lead to packages that were not previously broken breaking after a rebuild this deserves a severity of at least normal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Fwd: Re: Debian Live Lenny Beta1]
I have tried the amd64-version on a Lenovo R61 as well as on my Macbook. Maybe I should try the i386 on the Macbook because it did not boot properly and I could not use the keyboard. someone already reported this (it's a problem with syslinux), but i have almost no to no hope that this will get fixed; don't have access to macbook hardware. Unfortunately I don't think this is a bug in syslinux, I have seen it happen with lilo and with windows CDs as well. I belive it is a bug in apples compatibility service module. It seems to be somewhat sensitive to the exact boot method. I haven't tried debian-live but with other CDs I find it usually succeeds if I remove all power from the machine before starting. Then the hold C key during bootup to boot the CD and then release the C key as soon as I hear the CD drive spin up. If I boot through rEFIt it always fails. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: 1 of 400 dpkg databases corrupt?
I suspect this mean that 0.25% (1 of 400) of the machines reporting to popcon.debian.org got a corrupt/inconsitent dpkg database. Afaict dpkg has no mechanism in place for detecting or recovering from database curruption. The format of the datbase means that curruption tends to lead to dpkg forgetting a number of packages exist and thinking one package has a very long description. Next time the user uses apt it will complain about broken packages and advise the user to use apt-get -f install. Apt will then reinstall forgotten packages that other packages depend on but if nothing depends on the package it will be left present on the system but not in the dpkg database. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
It looks like the search you tried is just broken. The search tool works but it is rather dumb and the instructions are misleading. _i386 will only find packages with _i386 in the filename. So it will NOT find arch all packages like module-assistant. There does not seem to be a way to search for arch all packages within only images for a particular architecture. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Considerations for lilo removal
I am wondering if it is a good idea to remove lilo entirely. At the moment, lilo has been pulled from testing, and the code is in a shape Can either version of grub handle all the cases that lilo can? for example can either of them handle the situation where root is on lvm and there is not a seperate /boot partition? last I checked d-i defaulted to lilo in that situation. If not then removing lilo will leave d-i with no ability to install a bootloader in those situations and worse leave some users with no upgrade path. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what about an special QA package priority?
none*. And not cleaning up yourself also improves performance for short running apps. How so? The libraries request memory from the kernel in pages (4k on i386, will vary on other architectures), they then run thier own heap management system within those pages. Some memory managers will return pagess to the OS when they become completely empty others will not. When the application quits the kernel cleans it up, every page it owns is reclaimed without having to even look at the memory manager structures inside. in other words freeing the memory you have allocated before quitting takes time and achives nothing usefull. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: Sorting out mail-transport-agent mess
2) Introduce a default-mta package (currently) depending on exim4. All packages requiring a MTA should depend on default-mta | mail-transport-agent. This will have the extra advantage that we (and others like CDDs and derived distros) easily could swap default MTA. What concerns me about this approach is that it could easilly end up with dist-upgrades swapping out users mail systems without warning. I would consider such behaviour unacceptable as it could easilly cause mail loss if the user has a customised configuration. It seems to me that the ideal soloution would be to fix apt/the repositry system so that the defaults for a virtual package can be explicitly designed. Failing that how about a default-mta virtual package that is provided by *exactly one* real package. That way it is easy to change the default but upgrades should stay with the version that they have. Under that system changing the default MTA would require changes to two packages which seems manageable to me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] Need old Packages.gz and Release Files
I have had an accident on my Debian-Archiv-Server and unfortunatly the files Packages.gz, Packages.bz2, Sources.gz, Sources.bz2 and Release from the directories Afaict snapshot.debian.net has woody down to r4 and all point release of sarge and etch. For older point releases of woody you could grab the jigdo/template files for the CDs from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/jigdo/ , you will have to reconstruct a single big packages/release file set from the broken down ones on the CDs yourself though and unfortunately downloads of those .jigdo files seem to be hanging for me at the moment. For potato I doubt you have much hope except for the last point release (which is availible on archive.debian.org). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Firefox bugs mass-closed.
We encourage people to not file duplicate bug reports, and check the BTS first. So I check the BTS, the bug is there, I don't file a new one (I do send a me too). 6 weeks later, the bug is closed because the submitter's email is bouncing and he's on vacation anyway. It sounds like what is really required is the ability for a bug to have multiple reporters recorded. Then any queries about a bug can be sent to all the reporters not just the one who happened to submit the report first. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
