Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 07:39:44, Michael Biebl wrote: On 27.02.2013 00:50, Chris Knadle wrote: When this was brought up in the bug report, the response was network-manager can be installed, then disabled, but how to do that wasn't documented anywhere in the network-manager package. Instead the next suggestion was documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network- manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] for Wheezy. Suggestions? I will try to add a section to README.Debian which should be re-usable for the release notes / errata. It's been a couple of weeks, so I did some minimal testing and wrote up some initial text for this purpose based on the behavior I observed. -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us conflicts with other networking manager daemons ~~~ Gnome upstream chose to couple NetworkManager tightly with the Gnome Shell in order to provide connectivity awareness for both the Shell and Gnome3 applications. For this reason the Gnome3 maintainers in Debian decided to follow upstream and upgrade the Recommends on the network-manager stack to a Depends. It is known that a small number of Squeeze installations have Gnome installed but not NetworkManager, and this Dependency will cause NetowrkManager to be installed upon a distribution upgrade to Wheezy. At present, NetworkManager can detect if an interface is managed by ifupdown to avoid conflicts with it, but does not detect other networking manager programs such as wicd-daemon. Problems and unexpected behavior can ensue if two network manager daemons are managing the same interface when attempting to make a networking connection. This issue was discussed by the Debian Technical Committee in #681834 and #688772. If wicd-daemon and NetworkManager are both running, a wicd client will fail to make a connection with the counterintuitive message: Connection Failed: bad password Trying a NetworkManager client may sometimes result in the message (even when NetworkManager is running): NetworkManager is not running. Please start it. Or a NetworkManager client may work as expected. Or some other unexpected behavior may occur. If continuing to use another networking manager is desired, the NetworkManager daemon may remain installed but be permanently disabled (which is persistant through upgrades) with: 'update-rc.d network-manager disable' You will also need to recreate /etc/resolv.conf, as the contents of this file are replaced when the network-manager package is installed. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 06:50:51PM -0500, Chris Knadle wrote: Instead the next suggestion was documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network- manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] for Wheezy. I'm guessing that's because no one has produced a patch, or stepped up to help with the release notes (see https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2013/01/msg5.html) Neil -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On 27.02.2013 00:50, Chris Knadle wrote: When this was brought up in the bug report, the response was network-manager can be installed, then disabled, but how to do that wasn't documented anywhere in the network-manager package. Instead the next suggestion was documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network- manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] for Wheezy. Suggestions? I will try to add a section to README.Debian which should be re-usable for the release notes / errata. Neil, who should I contact getting those changes into the release notes? If anyone is willing to review the text, even better. Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On 2013-02-27 13:39, Michael Biebl wrote: On 27.02.2013 00:50, Chris Knadle wrote: When this was brought up in the bug report, the response was network-manager can be installed, then disabled, but how to do that wasn't documented anywhere in the network-manager package. Instead the next suggestion was documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network- manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] for Wheezy. Suggestions? I will try to add a section to README.Debian which should be re-usable for the release notes / errata. Neil, who should I contact getting those changes into the release notes? If anyone is willing to review the text, even better. Michael File a bug against release-notes should work[1] ~Niels [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=release-notes;dist=unstable -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/512dffb7.8090...@thykier.net
Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 01:39:44PM +0100, Michael Biebl wrote: On 27.02.2013 00:50, Chris Knadle wrote: When this was brought up in the bug report, the response was network-manager can be installed, then disabled, but how to do that wasn't documented anywhere in the network-manager package. Instead the next suggestion was documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network- manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] for Wheezy. Suggestions? I will try to add a section to README.Debian which should be re-usable for the release notes / errata. Neil, who should I contact getting those changes into the release notes? If anyone is willing to review the text, even better. The release-notes pseudopackage, and the debian-doc mailing list are good places to start. http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/ddp/manuals/trunk/release-notes/ contains the actual source. Neil -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 07:39:44, Michael Biebl wrote: On 27.02.2013 00:50, Chris Knadle wrote: When this was brought up in the bug report, the response was network-manager can be installed, then disabled, but how to do that wasn't documented anywhere in the network-manager package. Instead the next suggestion was documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network- manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] for Wheezy. Suggestions? I will try to add a section to README.Debian which should be re-usable for the release notes / errata. Thanks much. Neil, who should I contact getting those changes into the release notes? If anyone is willing to review the text, even better. I'd certainly be willing to help with that. -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
Le lundi 25 février 2013 à 11:43 -0800, Don Armstrong a écrit : 4. We overrule the decision of the meta-gnome maintainers to add a dependency from gnome to network-manager-gnome; this dependency should be removed. If in the opinion of the NM maintainer (and before the release of wheezy the Chair of the Technical Committee or an individual delegated by the Chair in consultation with the Release Team) the concerns raised in §4 of the CTTE decision #681834 have been addressed through technical means (e.g. by preventing the starting of NM as discussed in #688772), the meta-gnome maintainers may freely adjust the dependencies as usual. Can we consider that the changes in NetworkManager 0.9.4.0-9 are OK on this matter? -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1361901393.10692.8.camel@tomoe
Re: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le lundi 25 février 2013 à 11:43 -0800, Don Armstrong a écrit : 4. We overrule the decision of the meta-gnome maintainers to add a dependency from gnome to network-manager-gnome; this dependency should be removed. If in the opinion of the NM maintainer (and before the release of wheezy the Chair of the Technical Committee or an individual delegated by the Chair in consultation with the Release Team) the concerns raised in §4 of the CTTE decision #681834 have been addressed through technical means (e.g. by preventing the starting of NM as discussed in #688772), the meta-gnome maintainers may freely adjust the dependencies as usual. Can we consider that the changes in NetworkManager 0.9.4.0-9 are OK on this matter? I think those changes did most/all of the work to resolve the really important issues from my perspective.[1] However, Bdale and the RMs are the people who have to decide on this, so my opinion doesn't really count for anything. If anyone else has any comments on why the current version of NM doesn't address the concerns in §4 of the CTTE decision, please raise them to the bug. Don Armstrong 1: In case it wasn't clear: thanks to you and Michael for taking the concerns of the CTTE seriously and working to find a solution; publishing the decision now instead of earlier was just because of a lack of time on my part. -- I've had so much good luck recently I was getting sated with it. It's like sugar, good luck. At first it's very sweet, but after a while you start to think: any more of this and I shall be sick. -- Adam Roberts _Yellow Blue Tibia_ p301 http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130226183137.gb18...@rzlab.ucr.edu
Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager
On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 13:31:37, Don Armstrong wrote: On Tue, 26 Feb 2013, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le lundi 25 février 2013 à 11:43 -0800, Don Armstrong a écrit : 4. We overrule the decision of the meta-gnome maintainers to add a dependency from gnome to network-manager-gnome; this dependency should be removed. If in the opinion of the NM maintainer (and before the release of wheezy the Chair of the Technical Committee or an individual delegated by the Chair in consultation with the Release Team) the concerns raised in §4 of the CTTE decision #681834 have been addressed through technical means (e.g. by preventing the starting of NM as discussed in #688772), the meta-gnome maintainers may freely adjust the dependencies as usual. Can we consider that the changes in NetworkManager 0.9.4.0-9 are OK on this matter? I think those changes did most/all of the work to resolve the really important issues from my perspective.[1] However, Bdale and the RMs are the people who have to decide on this, so my opinion doesn't really count for anything. If anyone else has any comments on why the current version of NM doesn't address the concerns in §4 of the CTTE decision, please raise them to the bug. Were the issues relating to wicd and network-manager intercting badly addressed somehow? I know there was a plan [1] to fix this, but I didn't see the intended followup. [There may have been unforseen difficulties with the proposed solution.] Last I checked this as part of #688772, attempting to use wicd caused a counterintuitive error message of Connection Failed: bad password if network-manager was running. I just tested this again on Sid, and this is still the case. [I don't currently have the ability to test Wheezy for this.] When this was brought up in the bug report, the response was network-manager can be installed, then disabled, but how to do that wasn't documented anywhere in the network-manager package. Instead the next suggestion was documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network- manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] for Wheezy. Suggestions? [1]: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#464 [2]: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata [3]: http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/amd64/install.txt.en -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
