Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:24:47AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 10/04/09 at 09:18 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: * Debian Autobuilding Infrastructure Rewrite * -- Student: Philipp Kern, Mentor: Luk Claes I'm a bit puzzled by this. Philipp has been involved in Debian and a DD for years. He is already involved in buildd management. That proposal totally looks like he will get paid to work on things he already does in Debian. I thought that there was no consensus that this is OK. I thought the same, and the thread which developed from this objection is kind of a proof of the fact that there is no consensus, IMO. Note that you could also use that argument for the other side.. :) The fact that in the past there were DDs acting a students is no excuse, even more so because several of such projects were unsuccessful in terms of what they brought to Debian. Unfortunately, I cannot find evidence of the discussion I happen to remember in the archives of this list. We did take note of the phenomenon of DDs continuing their usual duties and not using their time exclusively on their GSoC project, resulting in failures. We believe it won't happen for the projects we retained. 2008 here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/02/msg01267.html I'm pretty sure we have 2007 and 2006 but I don't feel like digging that up. I don't want to ruin the organization of Obey for this year, at this point. Nevertheless I think that assigning a project to a student-DD is an error and I also thought it was clear to everybody before this. So, better to set up a clear guideline *at least* for next year. Everyone is perfectly fine with discussing this issue, as long as it remains civil and it happens outside of the GSoC period when students are scrutinizing us. Bringing dunc-tank et al. up is certainly not a good way to to attract fresh blood to our project. I hope we can have a fruitful discussion about this in, say, november-december and come to a guideline everyone can agree with. In the meantime, we're choosing option (3) in Lucas' mail: compromise. Also, only 45 DD/DMs signed up to review, discuss and score proposals, converging to our current shortlist. This number could be higher and I hope more DDs will be interested in reviewing or mentoring in the future. Cheers Arthur -- Obey Arthur Liu http://www.milliways.fr signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 07:28:14PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote: On Fri, 2009-04-10 at 09:18:32 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: === And the details: === * Control Files Parsing/Editing Library/Qt4-Debconf Qt4-Perl bindings * --- Student: Jonathan Yu, Mentor: (probably) Dominique Dumont *see below* This project proposes a common library for parsing and manipulating Debian Control files, including control, copyright and changelog. Main ideas include validating and parsing of these files, with both Strict and Quirks modes for the parser. The second idea is a new frontend for Debconf using Qt4 (for which Perl bindings will be written). I've some comments after checking the more detailed project proposal at: http://wiki.debian.org/jawnsy/Debian_Control_Files_Parsing_and_Editing_Library There's already several libraries to parse debian control and changelog files, but I don't think there's anything for copyright as the format is not yet standardized. dpkg has a C library (albeit not yet public) for parsing and dumping control-style files, and dpkg-dev has also perl modules supporting control and changelog files. As a general system-design style point, dpkg is the logical place for this and there are a number of reasons not to create yet another library elsewhere, particularly if it's going to be done in C. Getting dpkg's library for control parsing up to the point where it has a stable, advertised API would be very good for Debian, IMO. There's also mention of rewritting debconf in C/C++, but that has also already been done in the form of cdebconf. We will probably be moving to cdebconf eventually, but not within the lifetime of this GSoC project as there are still a number of things left to be added before it can be a full replacement. A second C rewrite would very likely do more harm than good (due to fracturing development effort). It wouldn't hurt to add a Qt4 frontend to cdebconf, and there would be some future value in that; but the only immediate use for that would be to produce a Qt-based graphical installer, which I doubt the installer team has time to maintain as we already have enough to do with one graphical frontend. Right now, fixing the Perl Qt4 bindings and updating the existing debconf KDE frontend (it really just uses Qt, but such is its historical name) seems to be the preferable approach by a long way. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@debian.org] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
Hello 2009/4/10 Obey Arthur Liu art...@milliways.fr: * KDE/Qt4 Adept 3.0 Package Manager: Petr Rockai, the original developer of Adept has offered help to anyone willing to adopt Adept. Sune Vuorela has offered help for any Qt4 and KDE related issues. *We really need a mentor here*. The student is quite competent but Google dictates that we provide a mentor to handle student management. I want to ask someone for stay mentor for this project. I think that this is very important project. Maybe not as aptitude or something else, but it is still important. Why? someone wants to ask. We have aptitude, Synaptic, KPackage. OK, but KPackage doesn't support deb package features (like debconf), I tried use this for some time, but it has big problems with instaling everything, KPackage tried unistall half system when I want to install xmms (it was in past, so maybe not it is fixed, but it show how useless is this application). Synaptic has problems with dependence. It show error when aptitude install package without problems (actualy aptitude is still not perfect, in future I want to make something like OPIUM (Optimal Package Install/Unistall Manager - http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1248851 not drug)). Aptitude-GTK? It use GTK+, not everyone wants to install GTK+, I use KDE, why I need GTK. Debian is dependence on Gnome? Who cares? I want KDE, I like KDE, it is big, it is slow, it is like cow, but I sill prefer KDE that Gnome. Debian is most universal distro I even seen. If you still want to dependece Debian on Gnome maybe is the moment to rename Debian to Gebian (like Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu). Actually aptitude-gtk is still in develope, so only few people try to use this, but in future before aptitude-qt will start, it takes some time. Aptitude-ncurses? If there is a person which want to learn Linux, but for this moment using console for them is too hard why he/she must be force to use it? Even if nobody stay mentor for this project I will try make it myself. Maybe for scratch, maybe I will use OPIUm ideas, maybe I will spend on this project few years. I don't care, I will make it. OK, but why you need to do it at GSoC? someone may ask. Because... Google pay for this. You are idiot, go home! someone may scream. But nobody says that Open Source mean free. All Open Source programers work for free? No... Linus, SuSE, Red Hat, I am not sure but few Debian Developers too. With money from GSoC I can buy 3-4 years old car in Poland. At GSoC I must work only week for ticket from Poland to Spain. In my current job I must work 4 weeks. So it is nothing bad that it is good way to make money. I am not competent as Arthur wrote. Actualy I am very lazy and stupid person. But, as long as I make good job onebody should care about that. I will make the best I can to finish this project (OK, this project will never end, but you know what I mean). So, if is courageous person to stay mentor for this project I will be very, very grateful. -- Mateusz Matthew Marek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
On 10/04/09 at 09:18 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: * Debian Autobuilding Infrastructure Rewrite * -- Student: Philipp Kern, Mentor: Luk Claes I'm a bit puzzled by this. Philipp has been involved in Debian and a DD for years. He is already involved in buildd management. That proposal totally looks like he will get paid to work on things he already does in Debian. I thought that there was no consensus that this is OK. -- | Lucas Nussbaum | lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: lu...@nussbaum.fr GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
Lucas Nussbaum a écrit : On 10/04/09 at 09:18 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: * Debian Autobuilding Infrastructure Rewrite * -- Student: Philipp Kern, Mentor: Luk Claes I'm a bit puzzled by this. Philipp has been involved in Debian and a DD for years. He is already involved in buildd management. That proposal totally looks like he will get paid to work on things he already does in Debian. I thought that there was no consensus that this is OK. We did talk a lot about this issue among reviewing mentors. FYI, we eventually rejected two other DD proposals and only kept this one. Arthur -- Obey Arthur Liu http://www.milliways.fr signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
* Lucas Nussbaum (lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net) [090410 10:30]: On 10/04/09 at 09:18 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: * Debian Autobuilding Infrastructure Rewrite * -- Student: Philipp Kern, Mentor: Luk Claes I'm a bit puzzled by this. Philipp has been involved in Debian and a DD for years. He is already involved in buildd management. That proposal totally looks like he will get paid to work on things he already does in Debian. I'd assume that Phil won't do the rewrite otherwise (which is a real pain). Cheers, Andi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:59, Andreas Barth a...@not.so.argh.org wrote: * Lucas Nussbaum (lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net) [090410 10:30]: On 10/04/09 at 09:18 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: * Debian Autobuilding Infrastructure Rewrite * -- Student: Philipp Kern, Mentor: Luk Claes I'm a bit puzzled by this. Philipp has been involved in Debian and a DD for years. He is already involved in buildd management. That proposal totally looks like he will get paid to work on things he already does in Debian. I'd assume that Phil won't do the rewrite otherwise (which is a real pain). So, how much is this differing from dunc-tank? -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:59:49AM +0200, Andreas Barth a...@not.so.argh.org wrote: * Lucas Nussbaum (lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net) [090410 10:30]: On 10/04/09 at 09:18 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: * Debian Autobuilding Infrastructure Rewrite * -- Student: Philipp Kern, Mentor: Luk Claes I'm a bit puzzled by this. Philipp has been involved in Debian and a DD for years. He is already involved in buildd management. That proposal totally looks like he will get paid to work on things he already does in Debian. I'd assume that Phil won't do the rewrite otherwise (which is a real pain). GSoC is not supposed to be about getting things done, but about getting new people involved. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
2009/4/10 Mike Hommey m...@glandium.org: On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:59:49AM +0200, Andreas Barth a...@not.so.argh.org wrote: * Lucas Nussbaum (lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net) [090410 10:30]: On 10/04/09 at 09:18 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu wrote: * Debian Autobuilding Infrastructure Rewrite * -- Student: Philipp Kern, Mentor: Luk Claes I'm a bit puzzled by this. Philipp has been involved in Debian and a DD for years. He is already involved in buildd management. That proposal totally looks like he will get paid to work on things he already does in Debian. I'd assume that Phil won't do the rewrite otherwise (which is a real pain). GSoC is not supposed to be about getting things done, but about getting new people involved. If you read the FAQ, the first goal listed actually is getting things done and creating new and useful free software code. The other 4 are about involving new people. I would consider 1-2 DD projects quite appropriate out of 10-12 projects total. -- Best regards, Aigars Mahinovsmailto:aigar...@debian.org #--# | .''`.Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org)| | : :' : Latvian Open Source Assoc. (http://www.laka.lv) | | `. `'Linux Administration and Free Software Consulting | | `- (http://www.aiteki.com) | #--# -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Soc-coordination] Google Summer of Code 2009: Debian's Shortlist
Hello Lists, We did talk a lot about this issue among reviewing mentors. FYI, we eventually rejected two other DD proposals and only kept this one. One of the two dropped DD proposals is mine. I've been involved as GSoC Mentor 2 years ago and GSoC Admin for Debian the last two years .I've even been involved in reviewing this years submissions until I decided to instead submit an own proposal. ... so how does that fit to your conspiracy theory? best regards, Erich Schubert -- erich@(vitavonni.de|debian.org)--GPG Key ID: 4B3A135C(o_ Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares? //\ Eine Stadt ist einem erst wirklich vertraut wenn man FreundeV_/_ in ihr hat. --- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
