Re: [ralph.amis...@gmail.com: outrageous, thievery]

[Richard Newton]

I agree, shame on those responsible. I have been using Debian for almost 15
years and this is the first time I have been ashamed. Add my name to the
record "of conscientious objection."

RIchard Newton

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Ralph Amissah 
wrote:

> I post not in anger but sadness, I should not let my voice go uncounted.
>
> Attached is my note to Daniel of earlier today, before his posting of
> "an abrupt end to Debian Live". Debian Live which he said Debian should
> have (as a Debian developer) in 2006 and went on to deliver, rather
> nicely (with (and without) help).
>
> - Forwarded message from Ralph Amissah  -
>
> From: Ralph Amissah 
> To: Daniel Baumann
> Subject: outrageous, thievery
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 09:28:44 -0500
> Message-ID: <20151109142844.GA28261@niu>
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30)
>
> Daniel, (already one of the more active Debian Developers then) I
> remember you telling Debian at Debconf 2006, Mexico about how "we"[1]
> needed a live-maker within the project. I said then that I thought this
> one of the most important projects within Debian (I was surprised that
> there was not more interest and effort offered by others at the time,
> though there was some, those so keen now did not seem to pay attention
> then).  Already then it was clear that it would one day be able to and
> possibly be the preferred way to do a Debian install... as I said,
> important. I saw how you contributed to Debian then, and I know how you
> have contributed since. Instead of welcoming you and your work, there
> seems to have been an effort to isolate you.
>
> Well clearly others have seen the fruits of your labor as a threat and
> with envy, and ripe for their plucking!
>
> Outrageous! Disgusting. It is nasty. A bit strange to think that I
> "know" some of those guys.
>
> My interest in Debian proper, dropped with your earlier treatment, it
> took away the desire to be a closer part of it. At least that took out
> much of any idealized notion of the inner workings of it. And there have
> been other moves since. I continue to be amazed by the politics of
> groups within Debian.  This though has the feel of blatant thievery.
> Chals characterization of a dictatorial coup would seem to be most
> accurate.
>
> It has no doubt to do with power (perhaps indirectly money is involved
> as well), your work & work area being seen as strategically important.
> They do it because they can, & justify it whatever which way they will.
>
> I am sorry. I feel pretty bruised on your behalf.
>
> We have not spoken in a long while. I hope we have the chance to talk in
> happier times.
>
> Greetings.
> Ralph
>
> P.S. We are ok, not much to report.
>
> - End forwarded message -
> [edits: addition of footnote, &; s/picking/plucking/]
>
> Indeed I am a friend of Daniel and primarily a user of Debian (a minor
> contributor of a package (sisu[2]) that I wrote that I am happy to have in
> Debian). In other circumstances I would consider myself at least an
> admirer of individuals involved on the other side of this. Indeed I (use
> use some of your software daily and) have met a number of you over the
> years at a number of Debconfs and have fond memories for example of
> visits to Cambridge when I lived in the U.K. and of being "introduced"
> to Debian by Debian insiders.
>
> Thanks to all who have stood up for Daniel, he is a wonderful, generous,
> (and capable) person. And yes, I do think him "wronged" by "Debian".
> There are others that know him pretty well, who have followed a fairly
> long sequence of events who must be outraged as well.
>
> Of course I wish Debian well, but I do not see your "handling" of Daniel
> as its finest hour. This will no doubt "blow over" as it must ultimately
> for the good of the project, but it sticks in my craw as it no doubt
> does others, and there should be some record of conscientious objection.
>
> Ralph Amissah
>
> [1] to be clear, "we" was Debian.
> [2] http://www.sisudoc.org/
> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=s...@lists.sisudoc.org
>
>


-- 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic communication with its contents may
contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is solely for the
use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use,
or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
recipient, or authorized to receive for the intended recipient, please
contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication. Thank you
for your consideration.

Re: [ralph.amis...@gmail.com: outrageous, thievery]

[Ed Dixon]

Be sure to share Daniels story via social media using the buttons on his
blog. I hope it wakes up the entire community to what happens when you
actually do something right around here! https://t.co/NwWs9AfW87 Thanks,

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 2:15 PM Richard Newton  wrote:

> I agree, shame on those responsible. I have been using Debian for almost
> 15 years and this is the first time I have been ashamed. Add my name to the
> record "of conscientious objection."
>
> RIchard Newton
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Ralph Amissah 
> wrote:
>
>> I post not in anger but sadness, I should not let my voice go uncounted.
>>
>> Attached is my note to Daniel of earlier today, before his posting of
>> "an abrupt end to Debian Live". Debian Live which he said Debian should
>> have (as a Debian developer) in 2006 and went on to deliver, rather
>> nicely (with (and without) help).
>>
>> - Forwarded message from Ralph Amissah 
>> -
>>
>> From: Ralph Amissah 
>> To: Daniel Baumann
>> Subject: outrageous, thievery
>> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 09:28:44 -0500
>> Message-ID: <20151109142844.GA28261@niu>
>> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30)
>>
>> Daniel, (already one of the more active Debian Developers then) I
>> remember you telling Debian at Debconf 2006, Mexico about how "we"[1]
>> needed a live-maker within the project. I said then that I thought this
>> one of the most important projects within Debian (I was surprised that
>> there was not more interest and effort offered by others at the time,
>> though there was some, those so keen now did not seem to pay attention
>> then).  Already then it was clear that it would one day be able to and
>> possibly be the preferred way to do a Debian install... as I said,
>> important. I saw how you contributed to Debian then, and I know how you
>> have contributed since. Instead of welcoming you and your work, there
>> seems to have been an effort to isolate you.
>>
>> Well clearly others have seen the fruits of your labor as a threat and
>> with envy, and ripe for their plucking!
>>
>> Outrageous! Disgusting. It is nasty. A bit strange to think that I
>> "know" some of those guys.
>>
>> My interest in Debian proper, dropped with your earlier treatment, it
>> took away the desire to be a closer part of it. At least that took out
>> much of any idealized notion of the inner workings of it. And there have
>> been other moves since. I continue to be amazed by the politics of
>> groups within Debian.  This though has the feel of blatant thievery.
>> Chals characterization of a dictatorial coup would seem to be most
>> accurate.
>>
>> It has no doubt to do with power (perhaps indirectly money is involved
>> as well), your work & work area being seen as strategically important.
>> They do it because they can, & justify it whatever which way they will.
>>
>> I am sorry. I feel pretty bruised on your behalf.
>>
>> We have not spoken in a long while. I hope we have the chance to talk in
>> happier times.
>>
>> Greetings.
>> Ralph
>>
>> P.S. We are ok, not much to report.
>>
>> - End forwarded message -
>> [edits: addition of footnote, &; s/picking/plucking/]
>>
>> Indeed I am a friend of Daniel and primarily a user of Debian (a minor
>> contributor of a package (sisu[2]) that I wrote that I am happy to have in
>> Debian). In other circumstances I would consider myself at least an
>> admirer of individuals involved on the other side of this. Indeed I (use
>> use some of your software daily and) have met a number of you over the
>> years at a number of Debconfs and have fond memories for example of
>> visits to Cambridge when I lived in the U.K. and of being "introduced"
>> to Debian by Debian insiders.
>>
>> Thanks to all who have stood up for Daniel, he is a wonderful, generous,
>> (and capable) person. And yes, I do think him "wronged" by "Debian".
>> There are others that know him pretty well, who have followed a fairly
>> long sequence of events who must be outraged as well.
>>
>> Of course I wish Debian well, but I do not see your "handling" of Daniel
>> as its finest hour. This will no doubt "blow over" as it must ultimately
>> for the good of the project, but it sticks in my craw as it no doubt
>> does others, and there should be some record of conscientious objection.
>>
>> Ralph Amissah
>>
>> [1] to be clear, "we" was Debian.
>> [2] http://www.sisudoc.org/
>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=s...@lists.sisudoc.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic communication with its contents
> may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is solely for
> the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review,
> use, or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
> recipient, or authorized to receive for the intended 

[ralph.amis...@gmail.com: outrageous, thievery]

[Ralph Amissah]

I post not in anger but sadness, I should not let my voice go uncounted.

Attached is my note to Daniel of earlier today, before his posting of
"an abrupt end to Debian Live". Debian Live which he said Debian should
have (as a Debian developer) in 2006 and went on to deliver, rather
nicely (with (and without) help).

- Forwarded message from Ralph Amissah  -

From: Ralph Amissah 
To: Daniel Baumann
Subject: outrageous, thievery
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 09:28:44 -0500
Message-ID: <20151109142844.GA28261@niu>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30)

Daniel, (already one of the more active Debian Developers then) I
remember you telling Debian at Debconf 2006, Mexico about how "we"[1]
needed a live-maker within the project. I said then that I thought this
one of the most important projects within Debian (I was surprised that
there was not more interest and effort offered by others at the time,
though there was some, those so keen now did not seem to pay attention
then).  Already then it was clear that it would one day be able to and
possibly be the preferred way to do a Debian install... as I said,
important. I saw how you contributed to Debian then, and I know how you
have contributed since. Instead of welcoming you and your work, there
seems to have been an effort to isolate you.

Well clearly others have seen the fruits of your labor as a threat and
with envy, and ripe for their plucking!

Outrageous! Disgusting. It is nasty. A bit strange to think that I
"know" some of those guys.

My interest in Debian proper, dropped with your earlier treatment, it
took away the desire to be a closer part of it. At least that took out
much of any idealized notion of the inner workings of it. And there have
been other moves since. I continue to be amazed by the politics of
groups within Debian.  This though has the feel of blatant thievery.
Chals characterization of a dictatorial coup would seem to be most
accurate.

It has no doubt to do with power (perhaps indirectly money is involved
as well), your work & work area being seen as strategically important.
They do it because they can, & justify it whatever which way they will.

I am sorry. I feel pretty bruised on your behalf.

We have not spoken in a long while. I hope we have the chance to talk in
happier times.

Greetings.
Ralph

P.S. We are ok, not much to report.

- End forwarded message -
[edits: addition of footnote, &; s/picking/plucking/]

Indeed I am a friend of Daniel and primarily a user of Debian (a minor
contributor of a package (sisu[2]) that I wrote that I am happy to have in
Debian). In other circumstances I would consider myself at least an
admirer of individuals involved on the other side of this. Indeed I (use
use some of your software daily and) have met a number of you over the
years at a number of Debconfs and have fond memories for example of
visits to Cambridge when I lived in the U.K. and of being "introduced"
to Debian by Debian insiders.

Thanks to all who have stood up for Daniel, he is a wonderful, generous,
(and capable) person. And yes, I do think him "wronged" by "Debian".
There are others that know him pretty well, who have followed a fairly
long sequence of events who must be outraged as well.

Of course I wish Debian well, but I do not see your "handling" of Daniel
as its finest hour. This will no doubt "blow over" as it must ultimately
for the good of the project, but it sticks in my craw as it no doubt
does others, and there should be some record of conscientious objection.

Ralph Amissah

[1] to be clear, "we" was Debian.
[2] http://www.sisudoc.org/
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=s...@lists.sisudoc.org

Re: [ralph.amis...@gmail.com: outrageous, thievery]

[Robert Edmonds]

Or perhaps we could assume good faith on the part of all participants to
this dispute rather than trying to stir up a great moral crusade.

Ed Dixon wrote:
> Be sure to share Daniels story via social media using the buttons on his
> blog. I hope it wakes up the entire community to what happens when you
> actually do something right around here! https://t.co/NwWs9AfW87 Thanks,
> 
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 2:15 PM Richard Newton  wrote:
> 
> > I agree, shame on those responsible. I have been using Debian for almost
> > 15 years and this is the first time I have been ashamed. Add my name to the
> > record "of conscientious objection."
> >
> > RIchard Newton
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Ralph Amissah 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I post not in anger but sadness, I should not let my voice go uncounted.
> >>
> >> Attached is my note to Daniel of earlier today, before his posting of
> >> "an abrupt end to Debian Live". Debian Live which he said Debian should
> >> have (as a Debian developer) in 2006 and went on to deliver, rather
> >> nicely (with (and without) help).
> >>
> >> - Forwarded message from Ralph Amissah 
> >> -
> >>
> >> From: Ralph Amissah 
> >> To: Daniel Baumann
> >> Subject: outrageous, thievery
> >> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 09:28:44 -0500
> >> Message-ID: <20151109142844.GA28261@niu>
> >> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30)
> >>
> >> Daniel, (already one of the more active Debian Developers then) I
> >> remember you telling Debian at Debconf 2006, Mexico about how "we"[1]
> >> needed a live-maker within the project. I said then that I thought this
> >> one of the most important projects within Debian (I was surprised that
> >> there was not more interest and effort offered by others at the time,
> >> though there was some, those so keen now did not seem to pay attention
> >> then).  Already then it was clear that it would one day be able to and
> >> possibly be the preferred way to do a Debian install... as I said,
> >> important. I saw how you contributed to Debian then, and I know how you
> >> have contributed since. Instead of welcoming you and your work, there
> >> seems to have been an effort to isolate you.
> >>
> >> Well clearly others have seen the fruits of your labor as a threat and
> >> with envy, and ripe for their plucking!
> >>
> >> Outrageous! Disgusting. It is nasty. A bit strange to think that I
> >> "know" some of those guys.
> >>
> >> My interest in Debian proper, dropped with your earlier treatment, it
> >> took away the desire to be a closer part of it. At least that took out
> >> much of any idealized notion of the inner workings of it. And there have
> >> been other moves since. I continue to be amazed by the politics of
> >> groups within Debian.  This though has the feel of blatant thievery.
> >> Chals characterization of a dictatorial coup would seem to be most
> >> accurate.
> >>
> >> It has no doubt to do with power (perhaps indirectly money is involved
> >> as well), your work & work area being seen as strategically important.
> >> They do it because they can, & justify it whatever which way they will.
> >>
> >> I am sorry. I feel pretty bruised on your behalf.
> >>
> >> We have not spoken in a long while. I hope we have the chance to talk in
> >> happier times.
> >>
> >> Greetings.
> >> Ralph
> >>
> >> P.S. We are ok, not much to report.
> >>
> >> - End forwarded message -
> >> [edits: addition of footnote, &; s/picking/plucking/]
> >>
> >> Indeed I am a friend of Daniel and primarily a user of Debian (a minor
> >> contributor of a package (sisu[2]) that I wrote that I am happy to have in
> >> Debian). In other circumstances I would consider myself at least an
> >> admirer of individuals involved on the other side of this. Indeed I (use
> >> use some of your software daily and) have met a number of you over the
> >> years at a number of Debconfs and have fond memories for example of
> >> visits to Cambridge when I lived in the U.K. and of being "introduced"
> >> to Debian by Debian insiders.
> >>
> >> Thanks to all who have stood up for Daniel, he is a wonderful, generous,
> >> (and capable) person. And yes, I do think him "wronged" by "Debian".
> >> There are others that know him pretty well, who have followed a fairly
> >> long sequence of events who must be outraged as well.
> >>
> >> Of course I wish Debian well, but I do not see your "handling" of Daniel
> >> as its finest hour. This will no doubt "blow over" as it must ultimately
> >> for the good of the project, but it sticks in my craw as it no doubt
> >> does others, and there should be some record of conscientious objection.
> >>
> >> Ralph Amissah
> >>
> >> [1] to be clear, "we" was Debian.
> >> [2] http://www.sisudoc.org/
> >> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=s...@lists.sisudoc.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic communication with its 

Re: [ralph.amis...@gmail.com: outrageous, thievery]

[chals]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 8:42 PM, Ralph Amissah  wrote:
> I post not in anger but sadness, I should not let my voice go uncounted.
>
> Attached is my note to Daniel of earlier today, before his posting of
> "an abrupt end to Debian Live". Debian Live which he said Debian should
> have (as a Debian developer) in 2006 and went on to deliver, rather
> nicely (with (and without) help).
>

Thanks for sharing this with us all.

We all know that Daniel deserves all the best for his hard work and
devotion to the project and however he has suffered continuous attacks
without any reason.

I am really sad, but I am at the same time relieved because there will
be no more bullying against him, whom I know and appreciate so much.

-- 
chals
www.chalsattack.com
ch...@chalsattack.com