Re: Bits from the NM people
Quoting Jan Dittberner on 2010-02-13 12:19:06: There are surely more ways to show activity even without uploading packages or doing other packaging work. Hear, hear. From what I've seen, packaging seems to be the 'sexiest' role a DM/DD could take on, and the most visible role. But what would a quality Free OS be without the infrastructure? Wikis, IRC, repositories, listserv... Somewhere on d.o is an excellent FAQ, IIRC -- I don't have a connection as I'm writing this. -- _ Brian Ryans 8B2A 54C4 E275 8CFD 8A7D 5D0B 0AD0 B014 C112 13D0 . ( ) ICQ UIN: 43190205 | Mail/MSN/Jabber: brianlry...@gmail.com ..: X ASCII Ribbon Campaign Against HTML mail and v-cards: asciiribbon.org / \ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficently advanced. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:49:31AM +0100, Andreas Marschke wrote: On Monday 30 November 2009 00:08:20 Joerg Jaspert wrote: Lets say this package is maintained on Launchpad that also maintainance for debian or would this have to be on mentors.debian.org to be a valid maintainance? (Just curios as there use to be some discussion between the bloggers about that some time back) Where it is maintained is irrelevant. What is important is the track record within Debian, and that can be seen by tools like minechangelogs and PTS for example. Or the handling of the bugs for this package that you see via our BTS. But if I remember right ftp.debian.org is an official debian repository to which only the DDs/Maintainers of a package have access to. Doesn't that mean I cant upload packages to this repository? Are there exceptional places on ftp.debian.org a non-maintainer can upload his packages to without triggering the alarmbells? There is a difference between a package maintainer (the person or group mentioned in a package's Maintainer field) and the Debian Maintainer (DM) fields. While it is true that only DDs and DMs can upload to the archive, it is still possible to maintain packages via a sponsor (who is actually uploading packages for a non DD/DM maintainer. There are several good ways to find sponsors, one is mentors.d.n [1] the other is one of the different teams [2]. [1] http://mentors.debian.net/ [2] http://wiki.debian.org/CategoryTeams There are surely more ways to show activity even without uploading packages or doing other packaging work. Regards Jan -- Jan Dittberner - Debian Developer GPG-key: 4096R/558FB8DD 2009-05-10 B2FF 1D95 CE8F 7A22 DF4C F09B A73E 0055 558F B8DD http://www.dittberner.info/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bits from the NM people
Ralf Treinen wrote: the main resource is a psql database with offers and requests, and the gpg coordination web pages are mainly interfacing to these web pages. Did you actually look at how gpg coordination works? I know the code *puke* and the database very well, thanks. And I still can't see a problem to migrate it to a wiki page or two. At least thats what I'll do as soon as the NM page is rewritten and nobody took care of the gpg stuff - drop the data nicely formatted into the wiki and link to that. -- Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprints: 06C8 C9A2 EAAD E37E 5B2C BE93 067A AD04 C93B FF79 ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
Very good news for people like me that want to be part of the best team in the worl. I'm reading a lot this days, preparing myself to help the best as I can the magnific Debian community. My goal is to be a DD some day. Step by step!! Cheers, Nuno Paquete On Nov 29, 2009 1:27 PM, Joerg Jaspert jo...@debian.org wrote: Hello world, during this weekend FD/DAM had a meeting in Essen to discuss various things and issues around the New Maintainer process. Good news - The queues are (almost) empty: * The DAM queue has only 2 people left. 14 have been approved and will now get an account. * Yes, this really means that we're going to have 14 new DDs as soon as their accounts are created! * The two people currently in the DAM queue are waiting for issues not fully related to the NM process that should be dealt with in the next few days. * The frontdesk queue is empty! * There are only 3 people waiting to get an AM assigned. With a few more AMs we could reach the ideal situation of having the AM queue empty and the AMs not overworking. * There are various people on hold at the DAM or the FD stage. These have all been pinged, and will either move on, or their application will be cancelled. No more rejections! --- Canceling an application is currently called a rejection. We are actually very rarely rejecting people from Debian, and the most common case is that an application is canceled because a person is not ready, and is invited to join again after they gain some experience. This wording issue has causes bad feelings in the past. For this reason we have decided to refer to what was previously called soft rejection as cancelling the application. In most cases, applicants can re-apply after a while, and cancelling the application more clearly communicates this fact. People who are not knowledgeable or experienced enough are not rejected by Debian: they are instead provided with more appropriate ways of joining, such as finding mentors who help them gain experience and sponsor their packages into the archive. What was known as a strong rejection will however still be referred to as a rejection, because that is what it is. Account name rules -- A new account name should be at least 3 characters long, and must be reasonable, according to the DAM's judgement. We've rejected account names in the past that were trolling attempts, or things like root. Website rewrite --- We started to rewrite our website at nm.debian.org. This cleans up the internal implementation and allows for future improvements in the NM process handling. GPG keysigning coordination --- FD/DAM would like to to move the GPG keysiging coordination over to someone else. It's not really part of FrontDesk work; and as we are rewriting the webpage anyhow we feel this is a right time to move it over to someone else and not make it part of the new page. Volunteers to pick up this job are welcome. Advocation in the NM process We discussed how advocation of New Maintainers should be done. We agreed that advocation should be done on a public mailing list and more than one advocations are appreciated. This is the same as in the DM process and gives a much better picture about applications. In order for this to be effective immediately, we ask prospective advocates that for now, they explicitly Cc the debian-newma...@lists.debian.org mailinglist; the rewritten website will make this automatic, once it goes live. More and well-motivated advocacy messages make the whole process faster. Though the current NM website does not allow for more than one advocate, the mailinglist process will, and this is another reason why we think the process should be made public. Note that after a person has been advocated, additional advocates need not go through the website; a simple signed reply on the mailinglist will suffice. This process is certainly suboptimal, but we are working on this for the new website. When you advocate a person, you are saying that they need and should get unsupervised upload rights on the entire archive, right now. In the past some people were advocated who at the time had not yet done any Debian related work. Please only advocate people who have contributed to Debian already, don't advocate someone that you expect will get involved in Debian later on. Having to cancel an application, or having someone disappear while in the NM process, is a waste of time and motivation for everyone involved. As such, we prefer that people who want to apply to NM have been active in Debian for a while already, and have built up some experience. In the last few months, we've already redirected some people to the DM process when we felt that they were not ready to become a DD yet, and we will continue to do so. Please consider this an official policy as of now. More AMs wanted
Re: Bits from the NM people
As such, we prefer that people who want to apply to NM have been active in Debian for a while already, and have built up some experience. In the last few months, we've already redirected some people to the DM process when we felt that they were not ready to become a DD yet, and we will continue to do so. Please consider this an official policy as of now. Hi, what is previous activeness in Debian for this case? - Wiki proofreading? - Irc helper? - Developer sending patches relatively often? - bugtriaging? Thanks, Andreas Marschke. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 06:55:58PM +0100, Andreas Marschke wrote: As such, we prefer that people who want to apply to NM have been active in Debian for a while already, and have built up some experience. In the last few months, we've already redirected some people to the DM process when we felt that they were not ready to become a DD yet, and we will continue to do so. Please consider this an official policy as of now. Hi, what is previous activeness in Debian for this case? - Wiki proofreading? - Irc helper? - Developer sending patches relatively often? - bugtriaging? well, it somehow depends on what an applicant applies for, I'd say. If one wants to become a packager it would help if the person in question is already maintaining packages. As a documentation person there are other activities that are of interest. Best Regards, Patrick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Sunday 29 November 2009 19:54:02 Patrick Schoenfeld wrote: On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 06:55:58PM +0100, Andreas Marschke wrote: As such, we prefer that people who want to apply to NM have been active in Debian for a while already, and have built up some experience. In the last few months, we've already redirected some people to the DM process when we felt that they were not ready to become a DD yet, and we will continue to do so. Please consider this an official policy as of now. Hi, what is previous activeness in Debian for this case? - Wiki proofreading? - Irc helper? - Developer sending patches relatively often? - bugtriaging? well, it somehow depends on what an applicant applies for, I'd say. If one wants to become a packager it would help if the person in question is already maintaining packages. As a documentation person there are other activities that are of interest. Best Regards, Patrick Lets say this package is maintained on Launchpad that also maintainance for debian or would this have to be on mentors.debian.org to be a valid maintainance? (Just curios as there use to be some discussion between the bloggers about that some time back) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 20:21:02 +0100, Andreas Marschke wrote: Lets say this package is maintained on Launchpad that also maintainance for debian or would this have to be on mentors.debian.org to be a valid maintainance? (Just curios as there use to be some discussion between the bloggers about that some time back) Neither as far as I can tell... The relevant archive is ftp.debian.org. Cheers, Julien -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 08:21:02PM +0100, Andreas Marschke wrote:
Lets say this package is maintained on Launchpad that also
maintainance for debian or would this have to be on
mentors.debian.org to be a valid maintainance? (Just curios as
there use to be some discussion between the bloggers about that
some time back)
Whether its code repository lives in Launchpad or Alioth or servers
in the package maintainer's basement is immaterial to the discussion
(well, not entirely if you're talking about participation in
collaboratively-maintained packages, but in that case the group
would standardize on a location anyway). What matters for purposes
of the NM process is the condition of the package as uploaded to
Debian itself, and how the packager deals with bugs filed against
it.
The Mentors repository is just a convenient place to stick packages
for a prospective mentor to retrieve, as a stepping stone to that
package's inclusion in the distribution (and provides some automated
QA to assist with this goal). It doesn't have a lot to do with the
topic of ongoing package maintenance, however... mainly just initial
acceptance by a mentor.
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Re: Bits from the NM people
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 02:26:55PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote: GPG keysigning coordination --- FD/DAM would like to to move the GPG keysiging coordination over to someone else. It's not really part of FrontDesk work; and as we are rewriting the webpage anyhow we feel this is a right time to move it over to someone else and not make it part of the new page. Volunteers to pick up this job are welcome. GPG keysigning coordination is since a long time done by a small group of people independendent from FrontDesk. Currently this is basically me, with an offer from Patrick Schoenfeld to help. In the past tbm and Luk have been part of that team. I agree that the infrastructure could (and should) be independent of the rest of nm. Which doesn't mean that I volunteer to implement it ... -Ralf. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
Lets say this package is maintained on Launchpad that also maintainance for debian or would this have to be on mentors.debian.org to be a valid maintainance? (Just curios as there use to be some discussion between the bloggers about that some time back) Where it is maintained is irrelevant. What is important is the track record within Debian, and that can be seen by tools like minechangelogs and PTS for example. Or the handling of the bugs for this package that you see via our BTS. -- bye, Joerg DarkRider also dies ist so ziemlich der einzige chanel wo ich meist 0 peile DarkRider ich schreibe etwas dann rennen se alle gegen die wand und schreien aua -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Monday 30 November 2009 00:08:20 Joerg Jaspert wrote: Lets say this package is maintained on Launchpad that also maintainance for debian or would this have to be on mentors.debian.org to be a valid maintainance? (Just curios as there use to be some discussion between the bloggers about that some time back) Where it is maintained is irrelevant. What is important is the track record within Debian, and that can be seen by tools like minechangelogs and PTS for example. Or the handling of the bugs for this package that you see via our BTS. But if I remember right ftp.debian.org is an official debian repository to which only the DDs/Maintainers of a package have access to. Doesn't that mean I cant upload packages to this repository? Are there exceptional places on ftp.debian.org a non-maintainer can upload his packages to without triggering the alarmbells? If there is a documentation page I haven't yet seen please do tell. I really really want to get packages into debian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:49:31AM +0100, Andreas Marschke wrote: On Monday 30 November 2009 00:08:20 Joerg Jaspert wrote: Lets say this package is maintained on Launchpad that also maintainance for debian or would this have to be on mentors.debian.org to be a valid maintainance? (Just curios as there use to be some discussion between the bloggers about that some time back) Where it is maintained is irrelevant. What is important is the track record within Debian, and that can be seen by tools like minechangelogs and PTS for example. Or the handling of the bugs for this package that you see via our BTS. But if I remember right ftp.debian.org is an official debian repository to which only the DDs/Maintainers of a package have access to. Doesn't that mean I cant upload packages to this repository? Are there exceptional places on ftp.debian.org a non-maintainer can upload his packages to without triggering the alarmbells? If there is a documentation page I haven't yet seen please do tell. I really really want to get packages into debian. non-DDs must send a request to the debian-mentors mailing list with a link to their package (whether it be on mentors.debian.net or elsewhere), and ask for a DD to sponsor their package for them. A DD will then upload the package to ftp.debian.org for them. See the docs on mentors.debian.net and debian.org/devel. -- _ Ryan Niebur ryanrya...@gmail.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bits from the NM people
Ralf Treinen wrote: GPG keysigning coordination is since a long time done by a small group of people independendent from FrontDesk. Currently this is basically me, with an offer from Patrick Schoenfeld to help. In the past tbm and Luk have been part of that team. I agree that the infrastructure could (and should) be independent of the rest of nm. Which doesn't mean that I volunteer to implement it ... In my opinion the easiest way would be to use a page in the Debian wiki, probably with some links to biglumber and/or other useful resources. And it would be really easy to maintain it - in the best case it maintains itself. -- Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprints: 06C8 C9A2 EAAD E37E 5B2C BE93 067A AD04 C93B FF79 ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
Bernd Zeimetz wrote: Ralf Treinen wrote: GPG keysigning coordination is since a long time done by a small group of people independendent from FrontDesk. Currently this is basically me, with an offer from Patrick Schoenfeld to help. In the past tbm and Luk have been part of that team. I agree that the infrastructure could (and should) be independent of the rest of nm. Which doesn't mean that I volunteer to implement it ... In my opinion the easiest way would be to use a page in the Debian wiki, probably with some links to biglumber and/or other useful resources. And it would be really easy to maintain it - in the best case it maintains itself. I'd hold on using biglumber as I've seen several people, and I myself have confirmed, problems logging into the site to manage your listings. There is already https://nm.debian.org/gpg.php that people should be pointed to as a good starting place. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bits from the NM people
Jeremy T. Bouse jbo...@debian.org (29/11/2009): There is already https://nm.debian.org/gpg.php that people should be pointed to as a good starting place. Did you actually read the thread? (Either one more mail than the one you replied to; or only that one, but including the quoted message in there should be a good starting place.) Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bits from the NM people
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 01:22:09AM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: Ralf Treinen wrote: GPG keysigning coordination is since a long time done by a small group of people independendent from FrontDesk. Currently this is basically me, with an offer from Patrick Schoenfeld to help. In the past tbm and Luk have been part of that team. I agree that the infrastructure could (and should) be independent of the rest of nm. Which doesn't mean that I volunteer to implement it ... In my opinion the easiest way would be to use a page in the Debian wiki, probably with some links to biglumber and/or other useful resources. Bernd, the main resource is a psql database with offers and requests, and the gpg coordination web pages are mainly interfacing to these web pages. Did you actually look at how gpg coordination works? And it would be really easy to maintain it - in the best case it maintains itself. Nothing maintains itself. -Ralf. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bits from the NM people
Ralf Treinen wrote: I agree that the infrastructure could (and should) be independent of the rest of nm. Which doesn't mean that I volunteer to implement it ... I could probably help implementing a basic system, but I don't know if it wouldn't be easier to use a ticket-based system so that it is easy to follow up keysigning requests. Cheers, -- Raphael Geissert - Debian Developer www.debian.org - get.debian.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
