Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Richard Kettlewell dijo [Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 03:42:01PM +0100]: I think it doesn't go far enough. mv sbin/* bin rmdir sbin ln -s bin sbin ...and the problem goes away forever. You type too fast. Are you _sure_ no two Debian packages provide overlapping /bin/$that and /sbin/$that ? Or /usr/bin/$foo and /usr/sbin/$foo ? Or (going back some flamewars^Wweeks) /bin/$bleh and /usr/bin/$bleh ? ...Or, mix-and-match, /sbin/$this and /usr/bin/$this? Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)1451-2244 / 5623-0154 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Hy, I believe that the question is going to deadlocking itself. If the user need to using the ifconfig program, that user must include the right directory where was originally located (/sbin). Just 2 my cent Cesare On 6/16/05, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Kettlewell dijo [Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 03:42:01PM +0100]: I think it doesn't go far enough. mv sbin/* bin rmdir sbin ln -s bin sbin ...and the problem goes away forever. You type too fast. Are you _sure_ no two Debian packages provide overlapping /bin/$that and /sbin/$that ? Or /usr/bin/$foo and /usr/sbin/$foo ? Or (going back some flamewars^Wweeks) /bin/$bleh and /usr/bin/$bleh ? ...Or, mix-and-match, /sbin/$this and /usr/bin/$this? Greetings,
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Kettlewell dijo [Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 03:42:01PM +0100]: I think it doesn't go far enough. mv sbin/* bin rmdir sbin ln -s bin sbin ...and the problem goes away forever. You type too fast. Are you _sure_ no two Debian packages provide overlapping /bin/$that and /sbin/$that ? Or /usr/bin/$foo and /usr/sbin/$foo ? Or (going back some flamewars^Wweeks) /bin/$bleh and /usr/bin/$bleh ? ...Or, mix-and-match, /sbin/$this and /usr/bin/$this? There are some examples of symlinks between bin and sbin, presumably to work around the existing sbin braindamage. /sbin/ip - /bin/ip, for instance. Not hard to cope with when you make the transition and for the longer term, dpkg could probably be taught to handle this case sensibly. If there's a case where you have /bin/foo and /sbin/foo actually meaning something different then that's plainly a bug in at least one of them, if not both, and needs fixing regardless. -- http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: astronut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree. The type of user who is likely to be using the ifconfig command on a regular basis is the type of user who probably already has sbin in their path. (Power user, sysadmin's nonprivleged account, etc.). Yes. The great majority of users don't want to know about stuff like ifconfig, and those that _do_ can either put /sbin in their path themselves or just type the damn path when they run the command. I've no clue why some people whine so much about this. It causes (at least) two types of trivial irritation: 1) on each new system I have to add sbin to my path, usually at the point where I'm involved in the already irritating exercise of debugging a network problem 2) when helping someone out, if you ask them to report what 'ifconfig' says then the answer is: -bash: ifconfig: command not found If there was a clear benefit to having ifconfig in sbin then these might be less annoying. But I've yet to hear of one. There is a small benefit to having a separate sbin at all, in that it takes a few things out of the namespace for tab completion. Personally I don't think that outweighs the inconvenience of people wrongly putting commands like ifconfig and (historically) traceroute in it. -- http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On 13 Jun 2005 10:11:52 +0100, Richard Kettlewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: astronut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes. The great majority of users don't want to know about stuff like ifconfig, and those that _do_ can either put /sbin in their path themselves or just type the damn path when they run the command. I've no clue why some people whine so much about this. Probably because there's no solid reason against a symlink. It causes (at least) two types of trivial irritation: 1) on each new system I have to add sbin to my path, usually at the point where I'm involved in the already irritating exercise of debugging a network problem 2) when helping someone out, if you ask them to report what 'ifconfig' says then the answer is: -bash: ifconfig: command not found If there was a clear benefit to having ifconfig in sbin then these might be less annoying. But I've yet to hear of one. I guess in situations where /sbin is available but /bin isn't (for whatever reason). There is a small benefit to having a separate sbin at all, in that it takes a few things out of the namespace for tab completion. On my system, if* matches only if as non-root user. I doubt namespace 'pollution' is an issue. Personally I don't think that outweighs the inconvenience of people wrongly putting commands like ifconfig and (historically) traceroute in it. -- http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: Probably because there's no solid reason against a symlink. Yes, and since ip puts one, too, I can do the same. Greetings Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:24:43PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: And anyway ifconfig is deprecated, everybody should always use iproute which *is* in /bin. Why is so? J PS: You keep on impressing me how gratiously you use the language: Linux kernel 2.4 is obsolete ifconfig is deprecated Please, stop spreading *your* FUD. -- Jesus Climent info:www.pumuki.org Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429 7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69 Personal note: When I was little my mother told me not to stare into the sun, so when I was six I did. --Maximillian Cohen (Pi) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:24:43PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: And anyway ifconfig is deprecated, While I don't have a very strong opinion on this matter either way, I feel I should point out that a) ifconfig is an application that exists not only on Linux, but on many other (free or non-free) unices as well; it would be fair to say that it's a good thing to keep it so that people with past experiences on these operating systems will have a more easy time getting to know the system. b) The mere fact that there is something newer which performs the same function does in no way imply that the older implementation is deprecated. This is true for many things -- kernels, network configuration software, /dev implementations. Although I agree at least with a), ifconfig is just unmaintained and broken in many ways. You haven't be able to get even accurate info about interfaces with netkit ifconfig (like several ip addresses on interface etc.). I call this situation dangerous. -- Hasso Tepper -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Hasso Tepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:24:43PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: And anyway ifconfig is deprecated, While I don't have a very strong opinion on this matter either way, I feel I should point out that a) ifconfig is an application that exists not only on Linux, but on many other (free or non-free) unices as well; it would be fair to say that it's a good thing to keep it so that people with past experiences on these operating systems will have a more easy time getting to know the system. b) The mere fact that there is something newer which performs the same function does in no way imply that the older implementation is deprecated. This is true for many things -- kernels, network configuration software, /dev implementations. Although I agree at least with a), ifconfig is just unmaintained and broken in many ways. You haven't be able to get even accurate info about interfaces with netkit ifconfig (like several ip addresses on interface etc.). I call this situation dangerous. On the other hand ip is so badly (non)documented that is is unusable to the novice. Ifconfig is the simple tool, ip the power tool. Everyone prefers something else. -- Hasso Tepper MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
astronut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree. The type of user who is likely to be using the ifconfig command on a regular basis is the type of user who probably already has sbin in their path. (Power user, sysadmin's nonprivleged account, etc.). Yes. The great majority of users don't want to know about stuff like ifconfig, and those that _do_ can either put /sbin in their path themselves or just type the damn path when they run the command. I've no clue why some people whine so much about this. -Miles -- 80% of success is just showing up. --Woody Allen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Josh Lauricha wrote: Not that I support replace ifconfig, but: $ ip -s link lists (in a different, but sane, format) everything, but the non-physical addresses of the links (now thats a dumb omission). The output of ifconfig -a is a unison of ip -s addr and ip -s link, unfortunately. -- Joshua Kwan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Friday 10 June 2005 10.40, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: Hello Olaf, On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 02:58:21PM +0200, Olaf van der Spek wrote: ifconfig is in /sbin and only in root's path. But ifconfig is runnable and useful for normal users, so it'd be nice if it could be added to the path of normal users too. .. So I am inclined to ignore this wishlist bug, however I wait for reponses on the developer mailing list. Given that it is trivial to do $ echo PATH=$PATH:/sbin:/usr/sbin ~/.bash_profile or the equivalent for whatever $SHELL a user is running, I'd support that. cheers -- vbi -- featured product: GNU Privacy Guard - http://gnupg.org pgpBH7WoJxVjB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* Adrian von Bidder wrote: On Friday 10 June 2005 10.40, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: Hello Olaf, On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 02:58:21PM +0200, Olaf van der Spek wrote: ifconfig is in /sbin and only in root's path. But ifconfig is runnable and useful for normal users, so it'd be nice if it could be added to the path of normal users too. .. So I am inclined to ignore this wishlist bug, however I wait for reponses on the developer mailing list. Given that it is trivial to do $ echo PATH=$PATH:/sbin:/usr/sbin ~/.bash_profile or the equivalent for whatever $SHELL a user is running, I'd support that. cheers -- vbi I agree. The type of user who is likely to be using the ifconfig command on a regular basis is the type of user who probably already has sbin in their path. (Power user, sysadmin's nonprivleged account, etc.). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:42:21PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: I don't understand what would be wrong with having a symlink in /bin ... Because this applies to most of the programs in /sbin. It would be easier to just merge both directories. Let's merge all directories. Get rid of all paths. Put everything in /. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Hello Olaf, On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 02:58:21PM +0200, Olaf van der Spek wrote: ifconfig is in /sbin and only in root's path. But ifconfig is runnable and useful for normal users, so it'd be nice if it could be added to the path of normal users too. The problem here is that ifconfig must be in sbin by FHS and by history (would break too many scripts). So moving is not an option. I can however put a symlink in /bin, however I am not sure how other DDs think about it, as this will set a bad precedence. So I am inclined to ignore this wishlist bug, however I wait for reponses on the developer mailing list. Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Le Vendredi 10 Juin 2005 10:40, Bernd Eckenfels a écrit : The problem here is that ifconfig must be in sbin by FHS and by history (would break too many scripts). So moving is not an option. I can however put a symlink in /bin, however I am not sure how other DDs think about it, as this will set a bad precedence. why that ? I don't understand what would be wrong with having a symlink in /bin ... -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpl5eq7YiuZQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Jun 10, Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem here is that ifconfig must be in sbin by FHS and by history (would break too many scripts). So moving is not an option. I can however put a symlink in /bin, however I am not sure how other DDs think about it, as this will set a bad precedence. Don't bother. This could be applied to most other programs in /sbin too... And anyway ifconfig is deprecated, everybody should always use iproute which *is* in /bin. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On 6/10/05, Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 02:58:21PM +0200, Olaf van der Spek wrote: ifconfig is in /sbin and only in root's path. But ifconfig is runnable and useful for normal users, so it'd be nice if it could be added to the path of normal users too. The problem here is that ifconfig must be in sbin by FHS and by history (would break too many scripts). So moving is not an option. I can however Copying? put a symlink in /bin, however I am not sure how other DDs think about it, as this will set a bad precedence. What's bad about a symlink?
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:24:43PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: And anyway ifconfig is deprecated, While I don't have a very strong opinion on this matter either way, I feel I should point out that a) ifconfig is an application that exists not only on Linux, but on many other (free or non-free) unices as well; it would be fair to say that it's a good thing to keep it so that people with past experiences on these operating systems will have a more easy time getting to know the system. b) The mere fact that there is something newer which performs the same function does in no way imply that the older implementation is deprecated. This is true for many things -- kernels, network configuration software, /dev implementations. Just my ¢0.02 -- The amount of time between slipping on the peel and landing on the pavement is precisely one bananosecond -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:47:00PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: b) The mere fact that there is something newer which performs the same function does in no way imply that the older implementation is deprecated. This is true for many things -- kernels, network configuration software, /dev implementations. the ifconfig interface can only support a small subset of the linux networking functionality and thus the linux networking maintainers did indeed declare it deprecated. That does not mean it'll go away but you're no encouraged to use it either. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Jun 10, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a) ifconfig is an application that exists not only on Linux, but on many other (free or non-free) unices as well; it would be fair to say And indeed this is the only reason to keep it around. b) The mere fact that there is something newer which performs the same function does in no way imply that the older implementation is Wrong. iproute does much more than route/ifconfig, which cannot support all the features of = 2.4 networking stacks. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Marco d'Itri wrote: On Jun 10, Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem here is that ifconfig must be in sbin by FHS and by history (would break too many scripts). So moving is not an option. I can however put a symlink in /bin, however I am not sure how other DDs think about it, as this will set a bad precedence. Don't bother. This could be applied to most other programs in /sbin too... Is that an argument? And anyway ifconfig is deprecated, everybody should always use iproute which *is* in /bin. But it's not installed by default, is it? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: On Jun 10, Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a) ifconfig is an application that exists not only on Linux, but on many other (free or non-free) unices as well; it would be fair to say And indeed this is the only reason to keep it around. What *single* command in the iproute package can I call to get the same information as I get from ifconfig -a? Until there is one, I don't see you can replace it. b) The mere fact that there is something newer which performs the same function does in no way imply that the older implementation is Wrong. iproute does much more than route/ifconfig, which cannot support all the features of = 2.4 networking stacks. Hey! Some of us still don't need all the features of 2.4! cheers, Rich. -- rich walker | Shadow Robot Company | [EMAIL PROTECTED] technical director 251 Liverpool Road | need a Hand? London N1 1LX | +UK 20 7700 2487 www.shadow.org.uk/products/newhand.shtml -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:24:43PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: Don't bother. This could be applied to most other programs in /sbin too... And anyway ifconfig is deprecated, everybody should always use iproute which *is* in /bin. This is only true for linux, not for anything else. Bastian -- It would be illogical to assume that all conditions remain stable. -- Spock, The Enterprise Incident, stardate 5027.3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem here is that ifconfig must be in sbin by FHS and by history (would break too many scripts). So moving is not an option. I can however put a symlink in /bin, however I am not sure how other DDs think about it, as this will set a bad precedence. I think it doesn't go far enough. mv sbin/* bin rmdir sbin ln -s bin sbin ...and the problem goes away forever. -- http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Fri 06/10/05 15:24, Rich Walker wrote: What *single* command in the iproute package can I call to get the same information as I get from ifconfig -a? Until there is one, I don't see you can replace it. Not that I support replace ifconfig, but: $ ip -s link lists (in a different, but sane, format) everything, but the non-physical addresses of the links (now thats a dumb omission). -- -- | Josh Lauricha| Ford, you're turning| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | into a penguin. Stop| | Bioinformatics, UCR | it | || | OpenPG:| | 4E7D 0FC0 DB6C E91D 4D7B C7F3 9BE9 8740 E4DC 6184 | || | Geek Code: Version 3.12| | GAT/CS$/IT$ d+ s-: a- C$ UL$ P++ L| | $E--- W+ N o? K? w--(---) O? M+(++) V? PS++ PE-(--)| | Y+ PGP+++ t--- 5+++ X+ R tv DI++ D--- G++ | | e++ h- r++ z? | || -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:49:36PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: Wrong. iproute does much more than route/ifconfig, which cannot support all the features of = 2.4 networking stacks. However this is neighter something which cant be fixed nor is this the question. Gruss Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://www.eckes.org/ o--o 1024D/E383CD7E [EMAIL PROTECTED] v:+497211603874 f:+49721151516129 (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:42:21PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: I don't understand what would be wrong with having a symlink in /bin ... Because this applies to most of the programs in /sbin. It would be easier to just merge both directories. Gruss Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://www.eckes.org/ o--o 1024D/E383CD7E [EMAIL PROTECTED] v:+497211603874 f:+49721151516129 (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
On Jun 11, Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:49:36PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: Wrong. iproute does much more than route/ifconfig, which cannot support all the features of = 2.4 networking stacks. However this is neighter something which cant be fixed nor is this the question. But it's still important to mention because it's an alternate solution to the problem of how to access information about network interfaces without having /sbin in the $PATH. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#312669: /sbin/ifconfig: Add ifconfig to user path
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: On Jun 11, Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:49:36PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: Wrong. iproute does much more than route/ifconfig, which cannot support all the features of = 2.4 networking stacks. However this is neighter something which cant be fixed nor is this the question. But it's still important to mention because it's an alternate solution to the problem of how to access information about network interfaces without having /sbin in the $PATH. -- ciao, Marco You type /sbin/ifconfig as you have been the last years. New users can probably be made to use ip instead as they don't know the much simpler ifconfig yet. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
