Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
On Tue, 16 May 2006 15:09:37 +0200, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How so? As an admin you can always comment out any conf.d file completely if you don't want what is in there. After which dpkg will come with the usual prompt at package upgrade about the conf-file being changed allowing you to keep it that way without any effort. Aren't we talking about delivering local configuration to a system with an independent package? That package cannot comment out a conf.d file that comes with the original package. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
Marc Haber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 16 May 2006 15:09:37 +0200, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How so? As an admin you can always comment out any conf.d file completely if you don't want what is in there. After which dpkg will come with the usual prompt at package upgrade about the conf-file being changed allowing you to keep it that way without any effort. Aren't we talking about delivering local configuration to a system with an independent package? That package cannot comment out a conf.d file that comes with the original package. Greetings Marc Is it allowed to divert conffiles? MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
On Wednesday 17 May 2006 08:33, Marc Haber wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2006 15:09:37 +0200, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How so? As an admin you can always comment out any conf.d file completely if you don't want what is in there. After which dpkg will come with the usual prompt at package upgrade about the conf-file being changed allowing you to keep it that way without any effort. Aren't we talking about delivering local configuration to a system with an independent package? That package cannot comment out a conf.d file that comes with the original package. right, got you now: there's 2 viewpoints: - that of the local admin (the 'delete configuration' you mentioned made me assume you were talking about the local admin viewpoint, my bad) - can always override everything wether it's monolitic or modular - modular is better if the admin just want to set some additional options (you don't need to mess with the conffile in the package, so you don't get the conffile has changed prompt on upgrade because you set a couple of extra options) - that of another package - modular _at_least allows to add bits of configuration which is usefull for: - plugins offering extra functionality - things building on another service (e.g. web-applications) - configuration packages of CDD's - _might_ allow overriding of configuration *IF* the config system always uses either the first or last value encountered for a particular setting and looks at things in some non-random order. Which I'm guessing should moslty be the case, and is at least sometimes be the case (e.g. the modularized system-wide on-login scripts for those shells that have them) = /etc/something.d directory might not be perfect, but it's good sight better then monolitic configuration files -- Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) 1. Encrypted mail preferred (GPG KeyID: 0x86624ABB) 2. Plain-text mail recommended since I move html and double format mails to a low priority folder (they're mainly spam) pgpOUZPsogPyr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:33:21 +0200, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = /etc/something.d directory might not be perfect, but it's good sight better then monolitic configuration files Agreement on that. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Re: Creation of custom
On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 10:47:48AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 15.05.2006 um 10:32 Uhr haben Sie geschrieben: CFEngine is in Debian, but has some real nasty frustrations. Puppet isn't in Debian, but Jamie is working hard on the packages and I've got some provisional ones built from his sources if you want to try it out. Puppet is fairly new on the scene, but is maturing fast, and has much less irritations. Well, of course I would like to try, that's why I asked ;-) You actually asked about custom packages, and might have rejected my suggestions as not fitting into your desired solution... grin So how can I get my (virtual) fingers on that (puppy) packages? Are they for sarge, otherwiese I will (have to) build some myself. The ones I've got are intended for Ubuntu Breezy (the SOE for the client I'm currently working for), but looking at the dependencies for all of the packages, there's nothing that Sarge wouldn't satisfy. I've put the debs up at http://www.hezmatt.org/~mpalmer/puppet/. Note that there's a new upstream version, but I don't have packages for that yet. What is the URL for puppy? http://reductivelabs.com/projects/puppet/ - Matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
On Monday 15 May 2006 09:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, in case I am in the wrong list, I beg you pardon, but I asked this already in debian-user without success. I would like to build customized, configured packages (for example additional bash script for the bash package, some default keybindings for screen, some host in /etc/ssh/known_hosts for ssh ... the list is endless), because maitainigs multiple systems becomes frustrating otherwise, if you maintain more than 2 computers (4 in my case). What would be the best (cleanest, most debian-like solution) be? I thought of meta-packages with pre-depends to the real packages and dpkg-divertions for the config files? you've just run into the main problem of CDD's (hence debian-custom would also be a good place to ask for help) Are there other possibilities? usual approaches are as follows (in order of preference): 1) use multilevel/modular config where available: usually in the form of a /etcc/something.d directory (e.g. /etc/apt/conf.d), or stacked config sets (e.g. the major desktop environments, see desktop-profiles package) 2) use debconf preseeding: con: only works before initial installation of whatever package of which you want to customize the configuration 3) use cfengine (or something similar) to customize the configuration: con: can't be automated in a policy compliant manner (though that's likely not a problem for your own use) long-term Debian solution is pushing for 1) -- Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) 1. Encrypted mail preferred (GPG KeyID: 0x86624ABB) 2. Plain-text mail recommended since I move html and double format mails to a low priority folder (they're mainly spam) pgpph6AaoTFs3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
On Tue, 16 May 2006 10:28:57 +0200, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) use multilevel/modular config where available: usually in the form of a /etcc/something.d directory (e.g. /etc/apt/conf.d), or stacked config sets (e.g. the major desktop environments, see desktop-profiles package) conf.d directories are problematic when one wants to delete configuration pre-delivered by the Debian package. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
On Tuesday 16 May 2006 12:10, Marc Haber wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2006 10:28:57 +0200, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) use multilevel/modular config where available: usually in the form of a /etcc/something.d directory (e.g. /etc/apt/conf.d), or stacked config sets (e.g. the major desktop environments, see desktop-profiles package) conf.d directories are problematic when one wants to delete configuration pre-delivered by the Debian package. How so? As an admin you can always comment out any conf.d file completely if you don't want what is in there. After which dpkg will come with the usual prompt at package upgrade about the conf-file being changed allowing you to keep it that way without any effort. How is this significantly different from any other configuration provided by packages? -- Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) 1. Encrypted mail preferred (GPG KeyID: 0x86624ABB) 2. Plain-text mail recommended since I move html and double format mails to a low priority folder (they're mainly spam) pgp7zysTuFKEG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Creation of custom configured packages?
Hi, in case I am in the wrong list, I beg you pardon, but I asked this already in debian-user without success. I would like to build customized, configured packages (for example additional bash script for the bash package, some default keybindings for screen, some host in /etc/ssh/known_hosts for ssh ... the list is endless), because maitainigs multiple systems becomes frustrating otherwise, if you maintain more than 2 computers (4 in my case). What would be the best (cleanest, most debian-like solution) be? I thought of meta-packages with pre-depends to the real packages and dpkg-divertions for the config files? Are there other possibilities? dpsyco does not seem to do what I want, at least not enough of what I want (though I must admin, I didn't read the whole documentation yet). Are there other packages like dpsyco, which could help? Thank you very much in advance. W. la Tendresse -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Creation of custom configured packages?
On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 09:49:00AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in case I am in the wrong list, I beg you pardon, but I asked this already in debian-user without success. Custom *packages* is probably more on-topic for debian-mentors, but I don't think that custom packages are the right solution. I would like to build customized, configured packages (for example additional bash script for the bash package, some default keybindings for screen, some host in /etc/ssh/known_hosts for ssh ... the list is endless), because maitainigs multiple systems becomes frustrating otherwise, if you maintain more than 2 computers (4 in my case). What would be the best (cleanest, most debian-like solution) be? I thought of meta-packages with pre-depends to the real packages and dpkg-divertions for the config files? I don't think you can dpkg-divert conffiles, which makes it a bit tricky to do that anyway. The correct solution to your problem, I think, is a system management application such as CFEngine or (my preferred option) Puppet. These systems allow you to specify rules which describe how your system is supposed to look, and then the program does what's needed to make that happen. You can make classes, too, which are generic configuration fragments which you can apply to a group of hosts -- a very powerful feature which allows you to make the common config parts really common. CFEngine is in Debian, but has some real nasty frustrations. Puppet isn't in Debian, but Jamie is working hard on the packages and I've got some provisional ones built from his sources if you want to try it out. Puppet is fairly new on the scene, but is maturing fast, and has much less irritations. - Matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Creation of custom
Am 15.05.2006 um 10:32 Uhr haben Sie geschrieben: On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 09:49:00AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...snip...] Custom *packages* is probably more on-topic for debian-mentors, but I don't think that custom packages are the right solution. Sorry for that. What would be the best (cleanest, most debian-like solution) be? I thought of meta-packages with pre-depends to the real packages and dpkg-divertions for the config files? I don't think you can dpkg-divert conffiles, which makes it a bit tricky to do that anyway. Well thanks, did not know that! Then my solution does not seen to make sense. The correct solution to your problem, I think, is a system management application such as CFEngine or (my preferred option) Puppet. These systems allow you to specify rules which describe how your system is supposed to look, and then the program does what's needed to make that happen. You can make classes, too, which are generic configuration fragments which you can apply to a group of hosts -- a very powerful feature which allows you to make the common config parts really common. Sound ver good. I already headre about CFEngine, don't know puppet yet. Will have a look at both og them. CFEngine is in Debian, but has some real nasty frustrations. Puppet isn't in Debian, but Jamie is working hard on the packages and I've got some provisional ones built from his sources if you want to try it out. Puppet is fairly new on the scene, but is maturing fast, and has much less irritations. - Matt Well, of course I would like to try, that's why I asked ;-) So how can I get my (virtual) fingers on that (puppy) packages? Are they for sarge, otherwiese I will (have to) build some myself. What is the URL for puppy? Thanks. W. la Tendresse -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
