Re: I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:49:13 +1100 Russell Coker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why not register change-linux.com and have it document how to convert between > all the different distributions? If someone finds that Debian doesn't suit > them then I welcome them to change to Fedora - they may change back later. > Changing to Windows is however something we want to avoid. One should use the OS that better fits its need, be it a GNU/Linux distro, Mac OS X or even Windows. Anyway, I don't think anyone would really need help migrating from Debian to Windows -- or would want to migrate, for that matter. -- KiyuKo Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected. pgpIH91oHKpNY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
On Saturday 24 February 2007 23:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > social contract, and fedora (and I came to debian before fedora > and haven't paid that much attention to fedora) as hobbled by it's > client status to redhat, which is a shame because I had hoped when > fedora came about it might have the independence to truly rival debian, > and redhat have some truly excellent people. Fedora has recently become more free. Fedora Extras (which accepts packages from non-Red Hat employees) is becoming more integrated into the main Fedora system. > The *users* of windows and the *users* of macosx are not the enemy > either. Making it easier for users to see the full system is certainly > putting the best foot forward, and I admire the work being done. I agree. However MS is the enemy and the goodbye-microsoft.com site is an attack on them. > So, why shouldn't the users of Fedora, or even say Ubuntu, be invited > to upgrade to Debian ?! Sure they should be made welcome. But they can be made welcome in a non-hostile way. Why not register change-linux.com and have it document how to convert between all the different distributions? If someone finds that Debian doesn't suit them then I welcome them to change to Fedora - they may change back later. Changing to Windows is however something we want to avoid. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://etbe.blogspot.com/ My Blog http://www.coker.com.au/sponsorship.html Sponsoring Free Software development -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
On 24 Feb 2007, at 12:44 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Strangely, I feel a tiny pang of guilt. I now have an apple box for the first time in decades. One of the main deciding factors was to buy unixy goodness :-) That was my main reason for buying an Apple four or so years ago. but also to get some exposure to OSX. I tried for a while to live in OSX, but in the end I installed Debian on it. It's not that I couldn't build everything I wanted, it's just that not having everything just work is like going back in time ten years. It's not that there isn't ports or fink, but there isn't debian, short of a full install, and the alternatives don't measure up. It's not that I couldn't take debian to osx (in my fevered imagination), it's that I'm too lazy to even try. Well, that's sort of what fink is. I have to sheepishly admit that I use OS X every day on my Apple machines. I don't have Debian installed on any of them - I do my DD work on server machines. The main reason for that is that I still think that for GUI things Apple have the edge over any of the Linux alternatives. The UI is simple, functional, and well integrated. Debian is fabulous in so many ways, but I still don't think any Linux distribution really cuts it on the desktop (although I do administer a network of 300 Debian desktop machines at work, so I don't think it's *that* bad). I've also been very pleased to not the fairly vibrant OSS community that has grown up around OS X. There is a *lot* of really quite good free software work going on for OS X (Fink, Camino, Adium, SSHKeychain being the principal ones I use every single day). Yes, there's a lot of Windows-style shareware too, but I think the free stuff is reaching critical mass, when it becomes difficult for the shareware authors to justify their position, when that developer over there ---> is offering something open and free. Having said that, when I can justify it to my good lady wife, I'm looking forward to buying an Intel Mac and being able to run OS X and Linux simultaneously - I tried doing DD work under Virtual PC for a while, but it was a non-starter. Just way too slow. Just the configure script on one of my packages (am-utils, which admittedly has the configure script from hell) took more than an hour to run under Virtual PC on my 1 GHz PowerBook. Tim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
Russell Coker wrote: > On Friday 23 February 2007 19:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > perhaps you should consider goodbye-fedora.org too ;-) > > Converting from Fedora to Debian is not a challenge, merely run > debootstrap from a root shell. Alternatively, install debtakeover: http://freshmeat.net/projects/debtakeover/ http://www.hadrons.org/~guillem/debian/debtakeover/README -- ยท''`. If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution : :' :-- Emma Goldman `. `' Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux (unstable) `- www.amayita.com www.malapecora.com www.chicasduras.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
On Sat, Feb 24, 2007 at 05:37:56PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: > On Friday 23 February 2007 19:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > perhaps you should consider goodbye-fedora.org too ;-) > > Converting from Fedora to Debian is not a challenge, merely run debootstrap > from a root shell. > > Also Fedora isn't the enemy. In fact there's a lot of code sharing between > Fedora and Debian (more than just shared upstream) and I am not the only > person to have been both a Fedora and Debian developer at the same time (now > I am only a DD). Apologies for any confusion, I had just come from reading the slashdot headlines :-) Putting my serious (read: saturday morning waffle) hat on ... It is many years now since I switched from redhat to debian, and at the time I did so I regarded debian as more-or-less just another distribution. Looking back in the other direction now, I see redhat as a commercial distribution, debian's greatest strength as it's people and social contract, and fedora (and I came to debian before fedora and haven't paid that much attention to fedora) as hobbled by it's client status to redhat, which is a shame because I had hoped when fedora came about it might have the independence to truly rival debian, and redhat have some truly excellent people. One of the things that strikes me as odd in debian is the dynamic between diversity and hierarchy. debian admits mulitple packages which do more-or-less the same things, where a smaller distribution might say "we'll have one MTA, one webserver, ...". This is a huge strength, and feels very welcoming. At the same time there are any number of areas where the *tendency* is more towards "there can be only one". An example might be the way that dpkg handles package names and versions as compared to rpm (name unique vs name/version unique). I pick this example precisely because I find it a conundrum, not because I think there is any easy answer, but I note the tendency of humankind in general to value their existing choices. Other examples of the tendency might be "one maintainer per package", "one release", "one repository". Note that all of these are just tendencies, it's not hard to find the counter-examples, and on the whole these tendencies exist for entirely commonsense reasons. Perhaps commonsense is more about how to make things work (at all) than it is about what happens when they break. The *users* of windows and the *users* of macosx are not the enemy either. Making it easier for users to see the full system is certainly putting the best foot forward, and I admire the work being done. Strangely, I feel a tiny pang of guilt. I now have an apple box for the first time in decades. One of the main deciding factors was to buy unixy goodness :-) but also to get some exposure to OSX. I tried for a while to live in OSX, but in the end I installed Debian on it. It's not that I couldn't build everything I wanted, it's just that not having everything just work is like going back in time ten years. It's not that there isn't ports or fink, but there isn't debian, short of a full install, and the alternatives don't measure up. It's not that I couldn't take debian to osx (in my fevered imagination), it's that I'm too lazy to even try. But it could be done, it probably wouldn't be terribly hard. And I can't help wondering if this isn't another area where debian has a tendency, a tendency to be all or nothing. (and of course, that's not a one-sided story: this isn't exactly the most free-software-friendly hardware ever made, and it seems that there's no such thing as a sun jre binary for linux ppc, although hopefully that will be changing) So, why shouldn't the users of Fedora, or even say Ubuntu, be invited to upgrade to Debian ?! They are certainly not the enemy and I'm sure they would be made welcome, even esr ;-) Regards, Paddy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
On Friday 23 February 2007 19:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > perhaps you should consider goodbye-fedora.org too ;-) Converting from Fedora to Debian is not a challenge, merely run debootstrap from a root shell. Also Fedora isn't the enemy. In fact there's a lot of code sharing between Fedora and Debian (more than just shared upstream) and I am not the only person to have been both a Fedora and Debian developer at the same time (now I am only a DD). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://etbe.blogspot.com/ My Blog http://www.coker.com.au/sponsorship.html Sponsoring Free Software development -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 12:15:02PM -0800, Tyler MacDonald wrote: > ... so I thought I'd take the liberty of registering "goodbye-apple.com" and > "goodbye-osx.com" in order to protect the namespace. I'll gladly transfer > them over to the first DD to code up something similar for that platform(s). > :-) > perhaps you should consider goodbye-fedora.org too ;-) Regards, Paddy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I *love* goodbye-microsoft.com
... so I thought I'd take the liberty of registering "goodbye-apple.com" and "goodbye-osx.com" in order to protect the namespace. I'll gladly transfer them over to the first DD to code up something similar for that platform(s). :-) Cheers, Tyler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
