Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 22:29 +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: snip I'm wondering... do we have binary packages for all kernel modules we have (free) -source packages for so that such kernel modules don't need to be built by users ? snip No, but *most* of them are built by linux-modules-extra-2.6 or linux-modules-contrib-2.6. (Even non-free modules be auto-built by linux-modules-nonfree-2.6, and some firmware is packaged in firmware-nonfree. But those obviously must not be included on official CDs.) Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Nothing is ever a complete failure; it can always serve as a bad example. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
Zitat von brian m. carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:53:24PM +0200, richs wrote: I think that including headers, m-a and build essential would be a good move for the developers. Other distros have out-of-the-box non-free and proprietary apps/drivers/codecs, I would just like to see Debian offer a complete base on that first iso. At least offering the means to completely setup Debian form the get-go. Non-free (and contrib) packages are not part of Debian and are therefore not shipped on Debian CDs or DVDs. I understand your frustration with not being able to use your wireless card out of the box; I have the same problem, since my card (iwl3945) requires non-free firmware. However, the Social Contract states very clearly that only Free Software can be part of Debian. Even if the packages you request were available on the first CD, you still don't have the drivers that you would need to compile, since those are in non-free or contrib and thus aren't on the CDs. Please read the _whole_ mail! He does not request inclusion of non-free software, just the ability to compile them with packages from the first CD. The non-free data/sources come from his own media, e.g. by USB stick. A valid request, I'd say... HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
It looks like the search you tried is just broken. The search tool works but it is rather dumb and the instructions are misleading. _i386 will only find packages with _i386 in the filename. So it will NOT find arch all packages like module-assistant. There does not seem to be a way to search for arch all packages within only images for a particular architecture. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
I would like to ask why essential packages are not included on the first Debian download cd/iso. I use Nvidia and Atheros wireless, but the packages module-assistant, build essential, kernel headers, wireless-tools etc, are needed for most other graphic, network driver and firmware installations. They are free, do not take up space, but without them (on a wireless only computer) you hit a vicious circle; Needing internet to be able to get internet. I have backups (via aptoncd) for all of the aforementioned tools and dependencies for Etch, Lenny and Sid. However, I ythink that their inclusion is far more important than, say... renaming Firefox or including Mono in the gnome desktop. Maybe somebody could explain why they aren't included from the get-go. Thanks Richs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are free, do not take up space, but without them (on a wireless only computer) you hit a vicious circle; Needing internet to be able to get internet. Avoiding the free vs. non-free firmware issue, most of these packages are available on Debian CDs/DVDs, just perhaps not on the first installation media. The choice of which software to put on the first CD is a correlation between software importance and target audience size, so it's not so easy to determine. If I understand your problem correctly, the packages you need (atl2-modules) aren't even available in Etch, so you're probably talking about Lenny CDs, right? If not, I guess this might be a problem. If what you mean is madwifi-source, then the problem is the non-free status, which means we simply can't distribute it on CDs. If the package you need isn't a victim of any of the above mentioned problems, you can find the CDs which contain it here[0]. I have backups (via aptoncd) for all of the aforementioned tools and dependencies for Etch, Lenny and Sid. However, I ythink that their inclusion is far more important than, say... renaming Firefox or including Mono in the gnome desktop. Mono is not included in the first CD, just as the tools you need. The renaming of Firefox is not a matter of taste (as could be argued about the order of packages on CDs), and had to be done because of the reasons explained here[1] (lots of mail-list archive reading...). So neither of those are arguments have any relevance to the matter at hand. Cheers [0] http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/12/msg00328.html -- Leo costela Antunes [insert a witty retort here] signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
Hi, basically I am requesting module-assistant, build-essential and the kernel headers for the default kernel on the first iso. These are basic tools that are necessary to be able to install non-free, proprietary packages such as madwifi, nvidia-drivers etc. My main point is the wireless issue (Atheros; Madwifi ath_pci module not ath5k), but there are many people who use USB modems and other hardware who need to compile drivers and modules to get an internet connection. Most will have the firmware and drivers available, but the aforementioned packages are essential to be able to compile/build/install. As for Mono, I was referring to the latest Gnome release on Lenny and Sid, not Etch. I have my own personal gripes about the renaming of Firefox etc, but that's another issue. I think that including headers, m-a and build essential would be a good move for the developers. Other distros have out-of-the-box non-free and proprietary apps/drivers/codecs, I would just like to see Debian offer a complete base on that first iso. At least offering the means to completely setup Debian form the get-go. Richs -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) mQGiBEhcyNURBADXeYTKqnBw/SLabReVFBgIxwjo9IYvORx6uxETHDvuyo7JHT4B qpMVTPYpNGlAdFB516C7GKYAOrPNrBZEhoM+KBKAeJvQ8S3clQo9eQiyTtosx/P4 pz9FhoJ89duSPFTyts86uHH5mVp72gKoaJAz5gNRq2zhVNPUR4MyVKPqOwCgwHVW YkoWDyHo42CjXc6dMkqFyRkEAL1kgeck9EVTvu57Rk96qisWP8MEjrGy/DmG/7AT CeIN68kxgmX8+ybFLqvBnvXaSRUcbmwWq8eje1fHXou3lypvQPtf69uwmCmYbRlh aLBpQkBQ/JPfs6EP77KeGjfCSUA5ikNhL61V6MYBf1EDW/23ssG/8aCoRZVd6i+L nTUmBACqukKeuxIQoQzI5g2ojR4NtHKq3SF9vKqGl2Fbb2+PgzMuwzJwk2bxxWyK pAjSYOuJ2DDC8XCrZNxEM4E0BcUKZHh7/YYHJsTXuBfDy7Aoat92iE5OItgqxzPN og5BEuWL5FC28QWDuc9Nzt/rVlMpbwglXY7dPz1VuNqFS+V5MbQzUmljaCBTIChy aWNocy1wZ3Ata2V5KSA8cmljaHNAZHJlYW1saW51eGZvcnVtcy5vcmc+iGAEExEC ACAFAkhcyNUCGyMGCwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBtUoXmB3YfgXHp AKCrEyUju1emRb4MTpgRGoKEZ14QvwCaAlKZ8IYiHkQlzwgvV70lY9uCTPG5Ag0E SFzJABAIAJc3YKTRRzfpI97SXkWec8mC03GJmJBVmUmX+3CWdl7eDYZ4Wz2uQOkL DH3uT+RlwSL8nCPUuIn/EK4SV/HhTf25jNgyruo9vRo/wLbqDQDU909p2iu2R23H japfPyyFQq3J8nhGkUKZCVrNHJNiu+lkIcrgf6O9J+Gr7/cO88XUN+xSsdu0QkN4 WbT5UCy//mVABY/IB1I6eSedzd1RG6CHvOAHmkO9iup7v8qG5OcMvth0aVkxh7sq JXUSDep4qMlLNxTvBx2mo+10s7ntT4628c+FNDsd0jkr22/t8hx4b6p8AujXzEEs 4hhzjR4n1aRHgrQmYOxg7sGu8KdJXB8AAwUH/0irqslSZdpepDKYO17oUEXI9lR4 0L4vHpenObc0nR9W7lQUomRWLHDAChoIivYWxl0BBf/Anhcc2/2hjFkyRoN4xg5t /xZ2POSRUlQUp80ZjYGrWd1Z79lXJBXG3lb2oqyNh+8PD7dwdutDeEeIqLSZlJj2 Et3cIULvbG/0ylvHVsKOoD7oUMIk1gzD+Wy7JasBZ2SpQhaE0436DiRuQZRIKF7l K5r5Tu3lfoeJE/UurHmg3o9E62H1CcDUW2mvkqrXY9B04kLJa5SnhVCUBkylEMHA Th1eDInPTwJho6NoDvKf691IyC0C+90QpjWL/5zbWoTkcsfm/l424Vf+fO6ISQQY EQIACQUCSFzJAAIbDAAKCRBtUoXmB3YfgdIZAJ0X13+I70zC5NWx6Z/ZhWSKjc9k 0gCdGiflwW7w+/TtSKALWM4SC/MSNv4= =N6oU -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-
Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:53:24PM +0200, richs wrote: I think that including headers, m-a and build essential would be a good move for the developers. Other distros have out-of-the-box non-free and proprietary apps/drivers/codecs, I would just like to see Debian offer a complete base on that first iso. At least offering the means to completely setup Debian form the get-go. Non-free (and contrib) packages are not part of Debian and are therefore not shipped on Debian CDs or DVDs. I understand your frustration with not being able to use your wireless card out of the box; I have the same problem, since my card (iwl3945) requires non-free firmware. However, the Social Contract states very clearly that only Free Software can be part of Debian. Even if the packages you request were available on the first CD, you still don't have the drivers that you would need to compile, since those are in non-free or contrib and thus aren't on the CDs. Your best chances of getting a working system out of the box are if Free drivers without firmware are included into the kernel. If this is a serious concern, I would recommend carefully selecting the hardware you buy for optimal compatibility. -- brian m. carlson / brian with sandals: Houston, Texas, US +1 713 440 7475 | http://crustytoothpaste.ath.cx/~bmc | My opinion only troff on top of XML: http://crustytoothpaste.ath.cx/~bmc/code/thwack OpenPGP: RSA v4 4096b 88AC E9B2 9196 305B A994 7552 F1BA 225C 0223 B187 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
