Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 10597 March 1977, Thomas Viehmann wrote: Well, I won't try to convince you to prioritize the new binary packages from known source package because last I heard (some 360 days ago), you didn't need convincing. Assuming that those 40-some packages affected are easier to process, it'd still be nice, though. I'm not sure whether this is done, Nope, its just back to normal processing speed. -- bye Joerg StevenK [Clint]: I'm convinced zsh users could deal with a keyboard that has 5 random letters, tab and enter. Joy 3 random letters :) Mithrandir you need anything but tab and perhaps space? Ganneff yes, enter - sometimes you want the completed thing to happen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Russ == Russ Allbery [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Russ I'm dubious that's really the main reason for the NEW queue. Russ Looking at http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html, Russ the ftpmasters check a lot more than that. In addition, Russ they also verify licensing issues. I consider that check to Russ be an integral part of the Debian QA process and wouldn't Russ want to do without it. It which case, why do packages that a new but with known source appear in NEW? Surely the fact the source code is in Debian would imply that the ftpmasters have already checked the licensing, legal issues, and other things? In contrast it is possible to upload packages containing new upstream source code (but no new packages) that has no manual checking. -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Russ == Russ Allbery [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Russ I'm dubious that's really the main reason for the NEW queue. Russ Looking at http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html, Russ the ftpmasters check a lot more than that. In addition, Russ they also verify licensing issues. I consider that check to Russ be an integral part of the Debian QA process and wouldn't Russ want to do without it. It which case, why do packages that a new but with known source appear in NEW? Surely the fact the source code is in Debian would imply that the ftpmasters have already checked the licensing, legal issues, and other things? In contrast it is possible to upload packages containing new upstream source code (but no new packages) that has no manual checking. There still has to be a mail send to the US government (some of its agencies) notifying that Debian will be exporting this (new) package and that it might (or might not) contain cryptography. And that isn't automated. For old package names the mail has already been send even if the contents changes. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/ Well, I won't try to convince you to prioritize the new binary packages from known source package because last I heard (some 360 days ago), you didn't need convincing. Assuming that those 40-some packages affected are easier to process, it'd still be nice, though. I'm not sure whether this is done, but thanks for dramatically reducing the number of packages in NEW and processing particular so-version-renamed packages so quickly. Kind regards T. -- Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Regarding the NEW queue (Was: Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?)
On 2006-03-13, Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nobody mailed ftpmaster@ about the size of the NEW queue. -devel isn't a contact address for ftp-master, at least speaking for myself, mailinglists have a much lower priority than things like ftpmaster mail, and when backlogged with mail, I tend to skip parts too, if it's too high-traffic at times. Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? It seems as if only problems and annoyances end up on mailinglists, and *not* to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The don't specifically need to be made private, but I don't think it'd be too much to ask for questions to ftpmaster to be mailed to the our published contact address? How would you feel if people complained about lacking piuparts updates on -devel, stating it's unaccepteable and the maintainer should've been recruiting a co-maintainer, without that person ever having contacted you? That's, roughly, what happens with ftp-master often. We do our best to answer all inquiries, but are not perfect. However, of those issues coming to some mailinglist, more often than not there's not even an attempt to mail ftp-master first, or at all. It's a kind of self-reenforcing loop if people don't think mailing helps, but then not even try, and mail -devel instead, making people think even more that mailing ftpmaster@ is futile. I agree transparency and openness are good things. I just disagree with the implication that mailing -devel _instead_ of ftpmaster@ is a good way to address an issue with ftpmaster. In the interests of transparancy, openness, keeping people from emailing debian-devel instead of [EMAIL PROTECTED] why not make the published contact address for ftpmaster be a publically viewable archive? It doesn't have to be a list that everyone can subscribe to and give their individual nit-pick comments about everything that is sent there, just make the email viewable. Some people email -devel because they think maybe their email to ftpmaster@ was never received, if they can verify it has been by themselves, this would be a good thing. My guess is that people dont think that mailing ftpmaster@ helps because it feels like a blackhole. If the darkness was illuminated then people could see that ftpmaster@ does try really hard to respond to things, and that your message that you sent there did arrive... Perhaps there is a concern about privacy for some reason, but I am sure issues involving privacy can be handled with care outside of a public archived list. Micah -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Simon == Simon Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Simon The main reason for the NEW queue is the US export Simon legislation. If it were legal to make packages immediately Simon downloadable, it would be done. In which case why do new packages with known source code end up in the NEW queue? The source code has already been examined for the US export legislation. e.g. if soname changes on shared library, it requires the package be renamed which appears as a new package. Could be an issue if such an upload contained security fixes. -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Simon == Simon Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Simon The main reason for the NEW queue is the US export Simon legislation. If it were legal to make packages immediately Simon downloadable, it would be done. In which case why do new packages with known source code end up in the NEW queue? I'm dubious that's really the main reason for the NEW queue. Looking at http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html, the ftpmasters check a lot more than that. In addition, they also verify licensing issues. I consider that check to be an integral part of the Debian QA process and wouldn't want to do without it. US export legislation is the reason why we don't make things in NEW publically available until after they've been processed, but that's a different issue. -- Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Hi, Kevin Mark wrote: If someone differentiated it into a simple triaged state: unseen, seem and expect to process soon and seen and requires more processing, it may alleviate some anxiety -- or maybe not. Hm, I am wondering how the internal communication between the ftpmasters works (i.e. I am checking this package now, or Functionality check complete, needs license check), and if that is sufficiently formalized such that a current status column in the summary page could be generated easily from that. I would suspect there to be some standardized, if not formalized, workflow that can be applied to 95% of all packages at least. But your idea sparked a differnet idea: What if you make a tiny repository of currently available unstable debian package based upon dependencies AND the unofficial package in the new queue that would be used to allow people to experiment with these package in a way like an unoffical experimental branch. The main reason for the NEW queue is the US export legislation. If it were legal to make packages immediately downloadable, it would be done. This would not stop the packages in the new queue from being examined but would allow experimenatal users to test your work and give you feedback before the processing is done. Sure, that's why I also upload my packages to my people.d.o page when I upload to Debian. But then I am responsible for following the US law, given that people.d.o is located in the US AFAIK, not the ftpmasters. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 13-Mar-06, 17:11 (CST), Joerg Jaspert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brr, there was no such decision, so no need to inform anything anywhere. It was more a try to not grow that fast for now, and try to remove stuff when you add new things. That was after the archive growing superfast in a very short timeframe, due to some multiple uploads of big packages in a row. Such a decision is a debian level policy decision that should be discussed with the developers, not something that the ftpmasters should be unilaterally implementing[1]. At minimum, there should *absolutely* be a message to d-d-a. It doesn't have to be a dissertation, just a quick Because of the recent rapid growth in the repository size, we're temporarily throttling NEW processing to give the mirrors a chance to catch up. Steve [1] Unless the repo is simply out of disk space, in which case you should also be making an announcement and asking for help. -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Regarding the NEW queue (Was: Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?)
Lars Wirzenius wrote: ma, 2006-03-13 kello 14:59 +0100, Jeroen van Wolffelaar kirjoitti: On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 12:20:38PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? It seems as if only problems and annoyances end up on mailinglists, and *not* to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The don't specifically need to be made private, but I don't think it'd be too much to ask for questions to ftpmaster to be mailed to the our published contact address? Certainly the question should be mailed to ftpmaster@ as well. I just don't see why it should be mailed there only, when it is an issue that affects the entire project. If there is a Cc to -devel, then ftpmaster can, with one reply, efficiently inform the entire project. For some reason my little brain didn't think of this. Mailing ftpmaster with a Cc: to debian-devel was the obviously correct thing to do, and I apologize for not doing it in the first place. For some reason my brain didn't come up with that as a possibility. :-/ -- Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bush admitted to violating FISA and said he was proud of it. So why isn't he in prison yet?... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Simon, On Tue, Mar 14, 2006 at 02:48:18PM +0100, Simon Richter wrote: Hi, Kevin Mark wrote: If someone differentiated it into a simple triaged state: unseen, seem and expect to process soon and seen and requires more processing, it may alleviate some anxiety -- or maybe not. Hm, I am wondering how the internal communication between the ftpmasters works (i.e. I am checking this package now, or Functionality check complete, needs license check), and if that is sufficiently formalized such that a current status column in the summary page could be generated easily from that. I would suspect there to be some standardized, if not formalized, workflow that can be applied to 95% of all packages at least. only a small percentage of packages stay in the new queue for a long time (like stuff that is in the marillat repo). that would leave the rest, as you say are the 95% that are only sojourning there for some short stay. That would mean that 5% of them are in the 'checked, need further processing' catagory which would need a note specificy what need to be checked. then the 10% that are added on a montly basis as new and the 85% which would require 'basic processing'. If any of these are done, it just help communication between ftpmaster and devs. But your idea sparked a differnet idea: What if you make a tiny repository of currently available unstable debian package based upon dependencies AND the unofficial package in the new queue that would be used to allow people to experiment with these package in a way like an unoffical experimental branch. The main reason for the NEW queue is the US export legislation. If it were legal to make packages immediately downloadable, it would be done. huh? the packages have an upsteam which must be accessible as per policy, so I guess they are open to legal issue as well. And there have been, iirc, packages in debian that were removed becuase of issues witout legal incident (thankfully) once it was determined. This would not stop the packages in the new queue from being examined but would allow experimenatal users to test your work and give you feedback before the processing is done. Sure, that's why I also upload my packages to my people.d.o page when I upload to Debian. But then I am responsible for following the US law, given that people.d.o is located in the US AFAIK, not the ftpmasters. is there a host that would allow this? maybe set it up with marillat or ? no-flamewars-it-just-a-questionhow does ubuntu do it, as they support non-free stuff?/ and, so is it normall to but possibly, buggy, but not-us-export-problem packages in new also in p.d.o/~USER? cheers, Kev - -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com | | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: pgp.mit.edu | my NPO: cfsg.org | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEF4S1v8UcC1qRZVMRAp3yAJ421hGZPATRib62HnsBU/JClVMADwCePEBi axTnrMSJb9MQba6x5fnf8Wc= =3WTj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
* Petter Reinholdtsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060313 08:03]: [Steinar H. Gunderson] Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW Well, that person is currently on the CeBIT and manning the Debian booth there. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: Well, that person is currently on the CeBIT and manning the Debian booth there. The problem in the sentence above is the singular in that. I know that Jörg Jaspers does a great job as ftp master assistant but didn't we talked about the hit by a bus factor ... oh, no we discussed it often enough. I'll save my time for today. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 08:57 +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: On Mon, March 13, 2006 01:39, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 06:53:08PM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote: It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? I posted question about mozilla-thunderbird-locale-cs to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 12:28 +0100, Ondrej Sury wrote: Hi FTP Masters, mozilla-thunderbird-locale-cs is quite normal locale file for Mozilla Thunderbird, there shouldn't be any reason I can think of while it's stuck so long in NEW queue. Or is there something which needs clarification which I can help with? Ondrej. No reply so far. Ondrej. -- Ondrej Sury [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 3/13/06, martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also sprach Petter Reinholdtsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.03.13.0752 +0100]: Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. Has that not been announced in any public place?
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
also sprach Olaf van der Spek [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.03.13.1101 +0100]: Has that not been announced in any public place? Not that I know. I got this information in the hallway track during FOSDEM. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system Invalid/expired PGP (sub)keys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! wickedness is a myth invented by good people to account for the curious attraction of others. -- oscar wilde signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
[Martin F Krafft] The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. Ouch. If that is true, I hope ftpmasters will announce it to the developers, as a blocked NEW hinders development of Debian and should not we a surprise. An announcement would at least give us some idea on when the NEW holding will end, and let us plan ahead. It blocks my development at least, as I normally want to make sure one level of dependencies are in the archive and doing well before I move on and upload the next level of dependencies. Blocked NEW stops all progress in this case, and I spend time on other things while I wait. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
also sprach Petter Reinholdtsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.03.13.0752 +0100]: Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system Invalid/expired PGP (sub)keys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! all i know is that i'm being sued for unfair business practices by micro$oft. hello pot? it's kettle on line two. -- michael robertson signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
ma, 2006-03-13 kello 08:57 +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst kirjoitti: I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? I do think N.N. formulated the question in a needlessly accusatory tone, but I don't think -devel was the wrong place. Transparency and openness are good for the project. -- Mulla on halu häkätä ja mulla on siihen taito -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
hi, * Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-03-13 11:11]: * Petter Reinholdtsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060313 08:03]: [Steinar H. Gunderson] Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW Well, that person is currently on the CeBIT and manning the Debian booth there. We can't always apologize things with something. If he it at CeBIT great, noone will aggravate about this as far as there are others who do the job during the time. What if he is on vacation for a month? Regards Nico -- Nico Golde - JAB: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GPG: 0x73647CFF http://www.ngolde.de | http://www.muttng.org | http://grml.org Forget about that mouse with 3/4/5 buttons - gimme a keyboard with 103/104/105 keys! pgpl6Lr9tSxOq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Le Lun 13 Mars 2006 10:38, martin f krafft a écrit : also sprach Petter Reinholdtsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.03.13.0752 +0100]: Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. and of course such a useless information has been kept silent. -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpbWOZ61ruQF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also sprach Petter Reinholdtsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.03.13.0752 +0100]: Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. That sounds like a sensible decision, then. But why hasn't it been announced, knowing that a silent stop of NEW processing would result in many threads like this one (actually the second one I'm involved in...)? And what are the sources you got the information from? Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
#include hallo.h * Petter Reinholdtsen [Mon, Mar 13 2006, 11:00:47AM]: Ouch. If that is true, I hope ftpmasters will announce it to the developers, as a blocked NEW hinders development of Debian and should not we a surprise. An announcement would at least give us some idea on when the NEW holding will end, and let us plan ahead. What do you think about semi-formal planing system with a web-based tracker? Imagine, a simple site where key developers can store notes in a well defined format - using a web interface, or via email. Offering RSS-feed, of course. A base format would even allow to crete business-like forkflow plans. Contents like: --- Actor: SRM Name: zobel (sorry zobel, it has too look authentic ;-) Context: Stable Upgrade Task: manual checks of update severities State: scheduled (2005-03-20..2005-03-31) ETA: 5 days Assistance required: none Dependends: access permissions (delegate:FTPMASTER), ready-for-update signal (delegate:FTPMASTER), sudo security upgrade CVE-... (maintainer:sudo) --- In theory, the task it depends one may even be automaticaly created and wait for beeing done/closed by other stakeholders. I would call this thing TTS (task tracking system) - and there may be already existing free software for this job which we can adapt, I have not searched yet. Oh, and yes, that is extra work I would expect from volunteers. But this simple things would improve many things people are complaining about - intransparency, missing roadmap, avoiding communication etc. And I would also explain every developer in a key position to use this system. There is IMO no justification for simple hiding - no matter how important your role may look. Eduard. -- Ambassador Londo Mollari: What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy? -- Quotes from Babylon 5 -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, March 13, 2006 11:20, Lars Wirzenius wrote: ma, 2006-03-13 kello 08:57 +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst kirjoitti: I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? I do think N.N. formulated the question in a needlessly accusatory tone, but I don't think -devel was the wrong place. Transparency and openness are good for the project. I'm surpassed by reality, since we now know that the FTP-masters didn't bother to answer Ondrej's mail... you're probably right that it wouldn't have made a difference. Thijs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
* Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-03-13 11:22]: The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. and of course such a useless information has been kept silent. Maybe because it's simply not true? As seen on IRC a few days ago (Ganneff == Joerg Jaspert, ftp-assistant): 20:37 _rene_ Ganneff: I accused you on FOSDEM not processing NEW where zobel/formorer said you have the order from aj to not process NEW because of the mirror split... 20:37 Ganneff i have what? 20:38 Ganneff nah. that was a not correct statement. 20:38 _rene_ good. then you can let the fixed OOo out of NEW which fixes serious display problems. thanks :) 20:38 Ganneff the archive grow too fast too big. so i should not process NEW so fast to not grow much more in a short term. something like that more. -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Martin Michlmayr wrote: and of course such a useless information has been kept silent. Maybe because it's simply not true? Sow what? If this is not true, what is true and why is it kept silent (well, IRC logs are not really but effectively silent). I know, Martin, it is not really you who has to answer this question. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-03-13 11:22]: The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. and of course such a useless information has been kept silent. Maybe because it's simply not true? As seen on IRC a few days ago (Ganneff == Joerg Jaspert, ftp-assistant): That's still quite silent, since not everybody reads every Debian-related IRC. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Regarding the NEW queue (Was: Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?)
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 01:39:04AM +0100, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 06:53:08PM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote: It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? Different people working on NEW vs mirror split. On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 07:52:07AM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Steinar H. Gunderson] Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW processing in Debian is work for more than one person over time, and that more people should be involved. More people *are* involved, it's just that I haven't done much NEW until yesterday because Joerg was doing a good job and keeping up with it, that I preferred spending my time elsewhere, where there was more need. I'm now helping out some more with NEW. On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:38:38AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. That's not true. On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:57:10AM +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: On Mon, March 13, 2006 01:39, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? Nobody mailed ftpmaster@ about the size of the NEW queue. -devel isn't a contact address for ftp-master, at least speaking for myself, mailinglists have a much lower priority than things like ftpmaster mail, and when backlogged with mail, I tend to skip parts too, if it's too high-traffic at times. On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:47:32AM +0100, Ondrej Sury wrote: I posted question about mozilla-thunderbird-locale-cs to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 12:28 +0100, Ondrej Sury wrote: [...] No reply so far. I saw your mail, but didn't reply as I wasn't normally doing NEW. I see nobody replied to it, for which I apologize. I'm not aware of anything wrong with it, but will take a look when ftp-master is reachable again (there seem to be routing issues today). On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 12:20:38PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: ma, 2006-03-13 kello 08:57 +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst kirjoitti: I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? It seems as if only problems and annoyances end up on mailinglists, and *not* to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The don't specifically need to be made private, but I don't think it'd be too much to ask for questions to ftpmaster to be mailed to the our published contact address? How would you feel if people complained about lacking piuparts updates on -devel, stating it's unaccepteable and the maintainer should've been recruiting a co-maintainer, without that person ever having contacted you? That's, roughly, what happens with ftp-master often. We do our best to answer all inquiries, but are not perfect. However, of those issues coming to some mailinglist, more often than not there's not even an attempt to mail ftp-master first, or at all. It's a kind of self-reenforcing loop if people don't think mailing helps, but then not even try, and mail -devel instead, making people think even more that mailing ftpmaster@ is futile. I do think N.N. formulated the question in a needlessly accusatory tone, but I don't think -devel was the wrong place. Transparency and openness are good for the project. I agree transparency and openness are good things. I just disagree with the implication that mailing -devel _instead_ of ftpmaster@ is a good way to address an issue with ftpmaster. If you have an issue, or a question, ask (to ftpmaster@). If you don't get a response within 2 weeks or so, mail again. Feel free to inquire with myself (jvw) on IRC too. On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 12:27:36PM +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: I'm surpassed by reality, since we now know that the FTP-masters didn't bother to answer Ondrej's mail... you're probably right that it wouldn't have made a difference. That's quite leaping to conclusion. Ondrej's mail was inquiring about one specific package, not inquiring about the NEW backlog. There have been numerous mails since inquiring about specific packages, which did get a reply. This one apparantly just slipped. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 02:49:18PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-03-13 11:22]: The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. and of course such a useless information has been kept silent. As seen on IRC [...]: That's still quite silent, since not everybody reads every Debian-related IRC. Wait, you want some (false!) rumours that have only shown up on IRC until Pierre's mail like a few hours ago, be debunked on d-d-a or so? The only prior mention I saw of this rumour, it was directly rebutted by Ganneff/Joerg Jaspert in the same channel. If you were not reading that specific Debian-related IRC channel at that time, you probably wouldn't have known that (again, false) rumour in the first place. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Martin Michlmayr wrote: 20:38 Ganneff the archive grow too fast too big. so i should not process NEW so fast to not grow much more in a short term. something like that more. Well, if that's the reason, are updates to existing source packages still allowed? I'd really like to fix my RC bugs and sync with upstream at the same time but the latter would involve so-version changes. Kind regards T. -- Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Regarding the NEW queue (Was: Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?)
ma, 2006-03-13 kello 14:59 +0100, Jeroen van Wolffelaar kirjoitti: On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 12:20:38PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? It seems as if only problems and annoyances end up on mailinglists, and *not* to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The don't specifically need to be made private, but I don't think it'd be too much to ask for questions to ftpmaster to be mailed to the our published contact address? Certainly the question should be mailed to ftpmaster@ as well. I just don't see why it should be mailed there only, when it is an issue that affects the entire project. If there is a Cc to -devel, then ftpmaster can, with one reply, efficiently inform the entire project. -- We live in a duct tape society. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 03:23:29PM +0100, Thomas Viehmann wrote: Martin Michlmayr wrote: 20:38 Ganneff the archive grow too fast too big. so i should not process NEW so fast to not grow much more in a short term. something like that more. Well, if that's the reason, are updates to existing source packages still allowed? I'd really like to fix my RC bugs and sync with upstream at the same time but the latter would involve so-version changes. This is not the reason for any backlog, although it does limit amount of NEW accepts per day, but there's still plenty of room in each day to do a lot of NEW. The bigger bottleneck is simply human processing time. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 02:49:18PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-03-13 11:22]: The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. and of course such a useless information has been kept silent. As seen on IRC [...]: That's still quite silent, since not everybody reads every Debian-related IRC. Wait, you want some (false!) rumours that have only shown up on IRC until Pierre's mail like a few hours ago, be debunked on d-d-a or so? No, sorry. I misread the IRC log as The reason for the NEW backlog is *not* that I don't process it at all, but that I process it deliberately slow, because of a decision of the ftp-master team. Upon second reading, it seems to say: You are wrong, and the reason for the backlog is *not* a team decision. I guess the reason for the rumor might be our decision to process it a little slower. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Jeroen van Wolffelaar wrote: Well, if that's the reason, are updates to existing source packages still allowed? I'd really like to fix my RC bugs and sync with upstream at the same time but the latter would involve so-version changes. This is not the reason for any backlog, although it does limit amount of NEW accepts per day, but there's still plenty of room in each day to do a lot of NEW. The bigger bottleneck is simply human processing time. Well, I won't try to convince you to prioritize the new binary packages from known source package because last I heard (some 360 days ago), you didn't need convincing. Assuming that those 40-some packages affected are easier to process, it'd still be nice, though. Kind regards T. -- Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 3/13/06, Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ma, 2006-03-13 kello 08:57 +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst kirjoitti: I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? I do think N.N. formulated the question in a needlessly accusatory tone, but I don't think -devel was the wrong place. Transparency and openness are good for the project. I agree with you, but i don't think it's just a lack of transparency and openness, it's just the same old way to not communicate decisions in a proper way. If the ftpmasters are going to stop NEW processing for a while with or without a special criteria, they should inform us through d-d-a or the DPL if they think it will generate too much noise, like these threads. If they did that i'm yet to hear about. I want the archive split and i want etch, don't get me wrong but at the same time i see that we're discussing communication and conduct problems every week, it's clear that we're delaying things here. Unfortunately, we're going nowhere once again, there's only one side writing, people in the middle acting like lawyers and the others just don't talk. I'm not going to the debconf, but i would like to suggest that the folks that are listed in the debian's organizational structure page[0] meet up and organize a bof with others developers interested. I see that Steve will talk about release etch in time and Enrico about the debian community guidelines, maybe they've better ideas for this than me. You know, the basic idea is ftpmasters, listmasters and others that are going to Mexico, spend some minutes sitting there, being cool with each other and hear the feedback from others DDs and say what they think about some past and the current issues. Someone take notes and post the results somewhere. [0] = http://www.debian.org/intro/organization -- stratus
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 02:39:11PM -0300, Gustavo Franco wrote: On 3/13/06, Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ma, 2006-03-13 kello 08:57 +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst kirjoitti: I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? I do think N.N. formulated the question in a needlessly accusatory tone, but I don't think -devel was the wrong place. Transparency and openness are good for the project. I agree with you, but i don't think it's just a lack of transparency and openness, it's just the same old way to not communicate decisions in a proper way. I am not sure, but did you get the mails from ftp-assistant Jeroen van Wolffelaar to this thread? If you haven't read them already, I suggest you do so, realize that there is nothing to communicate, and move on to other things. cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 3/13/06, Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 03:23:29PM +0100, Thomas Viehmann wrote: Martin Michlmayr wrote: 20:38 Ganneff the archive grow too fast too big. so i should not process NEW so fast to not grow much more in a short term. something like that more. Well, if that's the reason, are updates to existing source packages still allowed? I'd really like to fix my RC bugs and sync with upstream at the same time but the latter would involve so-version changes. This is not the reason for any backlog, although it does limit amount of NEW accepts per day, but there's still plenty of room in each day to do a lot of NEW. The bigger bottleneck is simply human processing time. It's clear for me that the NEW packages/per month processing time is way better than sometime ago, thanks the ftpmasters for this. The unsolved problems at this moment (as i see them) are: - Some packages aren't accepted or rejected and stay there for too much time with a unknown reason. If the ftpmasters agree we should add more information in the NEW queue page[0] than the reject-faq; - The process stopped for some time and some people thought it was due the archive split. It's a HR issue or a PR issue and can be solved easily IMHO.; [0] = http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html -- stratus
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 3/13/06, Michael Banck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 02:39:11PM -0300, Gustavo Franco wrote: On 3/13/06, Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ma, 2006-03-13 kello 08:57 +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst kirjoitti: I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? Is there a reason why the question should be made in private? I do think N.N. formulated the question in a needlessly accusatory tone, but I don't think -devel was the wrong place. Transparency and openness are good for the project. I agree with you, but i don't think it's just a lack of transparency and openness, it's just the same old way to not communicate decisions in a proper way. I am not sure, but did you get the mails from ftp-assistant Jeroen van Wolffelaar to this thread? If you haven't read them already, I suggest you do so, realize that there is nothing to communicate, and move on to other things. I did Michael, please read my previous reply (jvw's message). Thanks, -- stratus
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Nathanael Nerode wrote: It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Although that doesn't explain the packages listed up top. DWN permanently lists new packages, have this always been false positives? Regards, Joey -- The only stupid question is the unasked one. Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 3/12/06, Steinar H. Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 06:53:08PM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote: It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? I asked Joerg Jaspert about this problem on IRC a couple of days ago and he replied that he had been busy and that he planned to work on the backlog of the NEW queue in the following days. I was about to ask him to send a mail to d-d-a, explaining the state of the queue, but since he said he was working on it, I thought that it would be fixed soon. In any case, I suspect the backlog will get smaller in some more days. We just have to exercise a little patience. -- Besos, Marga
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Nico Golde wrote: Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW Well, that person is currently on the CeBIT and manning the Debian booth there. We can't always apologize things with something. If he it at CeBIT great, noone will aggravate about this as far as there are others who do the job during the time. What if he is on vacation for a month? NEW processing is not that critical that Debian couldn't live without it for a few days. Heck, we survived without NEW processing for months already. When Joerg is away for a longer time, I'm pretty sure he's interested in some solution in the meantime. Not all tasks have to be worked on 24/7. We don't have ty cry out loud whenever one task doesn't get done because the person doing so normally is a few days away. It's not that Joerg didn't doo NEW processing at all in the near past. Dooh. Regards, Joey -- The only stupid question is the unasked one. Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Nico Golde wrote: Hi, * Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-03-13 19:19]: Nico Golde wrote: Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW Well, that person is currently on the CeBIT and manning the Debian booth there. We can't always apologize things with something. If he it at CeBIT great, noone will aggravate about this as far as there are others who do the job during the time. What if he is on vacation for a month? NEW processing is not that critical that Debian couldn't live without it for a few days. Heck, we survived without NEW processing for months already. When Joerg is away for a longer time, I'm pretty sure he's interested in some solution in the meantime. Fine! Not all tasks have to be worked on 24/7. We don't have ty cry out loud whenever one task doesn't get done because the person doing so normally is a few days away. It's not that Joerg didn't doo NEW processing at all in the near past. Dooh. And thats not what I wanted to say. If there is no problem with it this thread is useless... I don't know if there's a problem or not. All I know is that Joerg is unavailable a couple of days and that a couple of days don't pose a real problem, hence, we should not immediately call out how bad Debian may be organised and stuff. When doing so we need to maintain the proportionality. Regards, Joey -- The only stupid question is the unasked one. Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Hi, * Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-03-13 19:19]: Nico Golde wrote: Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW Well, that person is currently on the CeBIT and manning the Debian booth there. We can't always apologize things with something. If he it at CeBIT great, noone will aggravate about this as far as there are others who do the job during the time. What if he is on vacation for a month? NEW processing is not that critical that Debian couldn't live without it for a few days. Heck, we survived without NEW processing for months already. When Joerg is away for a longer time, I'm pretty sure he's interested in some solution in the meantime. Fine! Not all tasks have to be worked on 24/7. We don't have ty cry out loud whenever one task doesn't get done because the person doing so normally is a few days away. It's not that Joerg didn't doo NEW processing at all in the near past. Dooh. And thats not what I wanted to say. If there is no problem with it this thread is useless... Regards and thanks Nico -- Nico Golde - JAB: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GPG: 0x73647CFF http://www.ngolde.de | http://www.muttng.org | http://grml.org Forget about that mouse with 3/4/5 buttons - gimme a keyboard with 103/104/105 keys! pgpcnRpFIpEzd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 10592 March 1977, Nathanael Nerode wrote: It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Now thats just wrong. I have a backlog, yup, but that will clear itself again in a short timeframe. -- bye Joerg [Talking about Social Contract]: We will not discriminate noone[...] [So we discriminate anyone?] pgpGrkPjShKs3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 10592 March 1977, Gustavo Franco wrote: If the ftpmasters are going to stop NEW processing for a while with or without a special criteria, they should inform us through d-d-a or the DPL if they think it will generate too much noise, like these threads. If they did that i'm yet to hear about. Brr, there was no such decision, so no need to inform anything anywhere. It was more a try to not grow that fast for now, and try to remove stuff when you add new things. That was after the archive growing superfast in a very short timeframe, due to some multiple uploads of big packages in a row. The backlog in NEW is more from some timing problems I had. -- bye Joerg [http://www.youam.net/stuff/info...-hosting.de/server-info.php] Um eine schnelle Netzanbindung zu gewährleisten hat der Server eine Realtek-Marken-Netzwerkkarte. Eine Realtek-Karte ist im Vergleich zu billigeren Karten oft etwas leistungsstärker. pgpeISbZ0iMTa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On 3/13/06, Joerg Jaspert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10592 March 1977, Gustavo Franco wrote: If the ftpmasters are going to stop NEW processing for a while with or without a special criteria, they should inform us through d-d-a or the DPL if they think it will generate too much noise, like these threads. If they did that i'm yet to hear about. Brr, there was no such decision, so no need to inform anything anywhere. It was more a try to not grow that fast for now, and try to remove stuff when you add new things. That was after the archive growing superfast in a very short timeframe, due to some multiple uploads of big packages in a row. Oh, i see. Thanks Joerg. The backlog in NEW is more from some timing problems I had. Do you consider in backlog, packages like mozilla-firefox-adblock? If yes, couldn't us add in the NEW queue page[0] a status (or notes) column? I'm sure you know better than me if it will be useful to inform the maintainer that you're investigating about licensing issues or something like that. [0] = http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html Thanks, -- stratus
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 11:00 +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Ouch. If that is true, I hope ftpmasters will announce it to the developers, as a blocked NEW hinders development of Debian and should not we a surprise. An announcement would at least give us some idea on when the NEW holding will end, and let us plan ahead. It blocks my development at least, as I normally want to make sure one level of dependencies are in the archive and doing well before I move on and upload the next level of dependencies. Blocked NEW stops all progress in this case, and I spend time on other things while I wait. It appears that dar is being blocked because the soname of libdar3c2a has changed to libdar4. Normally processing such packages is very quick, so the delay, even though it has only been several days (I uploaded Sunday; it is now Tuesday) it would appear that NEW is blocked for some reason. However, no changes in my upload are critical (at least none that I am aware of), and there are no known security bugs, so I am not complaining. Just curious. -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
Petter Reinholdtsen dijo [Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 11:00:47AM +0100]: The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. Ouch. If that is true, I hope ftpmasters will announce it to the developers, as a blocked NEW hinders development of Debian and should not we a surprise. An announcement would at least give us some idea on when the NEW holding will end, and let us plan ahead. It blocks my development at least, as I normally want to make sure one level of dependencies are in the archive and doing well before I move on and upload the next level of dependencies. Blocked NEW stops all progress in this case, and I spend time on other things while I wait. Of course, I don't know your exact case or situation... But I think you are overreacting. It blocks your development? While the FTPmasters have their systems ready, why don't you set up a local apt repository with all of your new stuff, so it doesn't block you anymore? Yes, waiting and pinging them is annoying and robs some precious time... But not much more than that. Specially once you know they are not out there just to make you more miserable ;-) Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:49:39PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Petter Reinholdtsen dijo [Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 11:00:47AM +0100]: The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood, the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is complete. Ouch. If that is true, I hope ftpmasters will announce it to the developers, as a blocked NEW hinders development of Debian and should not we a surprise. An announcement would at least give us some idea on when the NEW holding will end, and let us plan ahead. It blocks my development at least, as I normally want to make sure one level of dependencies are in the archive and doing well before I move on and upload the next level of dependencies. Blocked NEW stops all progress in this case, and I spend time on other things while I wait. Of course, I don't know your exact case or situation... But I think you are overreacting. It blocks your development? While the FTPmasters have their systems ready, why don't you set up a local apt repository with all of your new stuff, so it doesn't block you anymore? Yes, waiting and pinging them is annoying and robs some precious time... But not much more than that. Specially once you know they are not out there just to make you more miserable ;-) Hi Gunnar, I think that alot of this issue is over communication and status. Like those ---Mark-- messages in the messages log. If someone differentiated it into a simple triaged state: unseen, seem and expect to process soon and seen and requires more processing, it may alleviate some anxiety -- or maybe not. But you bring up an intersting issue: that of blocking developement and the intent of developers to get stuff in debian proper. The intent of the new queue and ftpmaster is to get stuff into the debian unstable queue and to make progress in getting issues resolved towards making a stable release. But your idea sparked a differnet idea: What if you make a tiny repository of currently available unstable debian package based upon dependencies AND the unofficial package in the new queue that would be used to allow people to experiment with these package in a way like an unoffical experimental branch. This would not stop the packages in the new queue from being examined but would allow experimenatal users to test your work and give you feedback before the processing is done. This would be probably closest to the marillat repo. The ftpmasters job is to get a package in Debian but make sure it is dfsg-free and not laden with various bug: run-time,compile-time, arch-dependant... among other things. But while it is in the new queue, time is wasting not having it getting debuged with other needed bits based upon depends that are already in debian and if there was an unoffical testing ground it may help. I'd call it people.debian.net/~$username/ because it would be keyed to each devs own packages that is the new queue and the .net because it would unoffical (as in possibly not dfsg or ftpmaster checked). As an example: package 'one' is in the new queue but depends on two, three and four. if two, three and four are in unstable, then you mirror those to people.debian.net/~joe/ and also have 'one' from new. Now someone can add this repo to their source list and install and test stuff while it is being examined in new. The only thing I dont know about are all the details of package numbering and versioning, possible upgradability to unstable, and build-dep and dependency issue in the Packages and Sources files. But I'm sure folks can figure out that stuff. This is not reinventing the wheel, but just making it more convient for users and devs to get stuff tested before it gets processed by new. Cheers, Kev -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com | | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: pgp.mit.edu | my NPO: cfsg.org | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
xvidcap -- 1 year. If the ffmpeg source code is removed from the source package, could this go in? FTPmasters? mozilla-firefox-adblock -- 5 months. Why is this not going in? cvsconnect, cvssuck -- 4 months. Why are these not going in or being rejected? mozilla-thunderbird-locale-cs -- 3 months. Why hasn't this gone in or been rejected? 2 months: firefox-locale-uk kde-style-comix pike7.7 zeroc-ice (et al) 1 month: 10 packages 3 weeks: 34 packages 2 weeks: lots and lots of packages It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Although that doesn't explain the packages listed up top. -- Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bush admitted to violating FISA and said he was proud of it. So why isn't he in prison yet?... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 06:53:08PM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote: It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
[Steinar H. Gunderson] Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else. I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW processing in Debian is work for more than one person over time, and that more people should be involved. On the other hand, some processing is still done, so isn't completely stopped. It is just more packages coming in than going out. :/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEW queue backing up again -- ftpmasters, any explanation or comment?
On Mon, March 13, 2006 01:39, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 06:53:08PM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote: It looks approximately as though nothing has been examined since a month ago. Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split? I don't think it's useful to second-guess what they're doing, so my question to Nathanael: when did you post this question to them directly and what was their answer? bye, Thijs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
