NM without X
Le vendredi 23 mars 2012 à 13:35 +0100, Svante Signell a écrit : Can the Network Manager be controlled/started/configured in console mode when X is not running? If the answer to the above questions is yes, maybe that setting (making Network Manager work also without X) would be the default! The answer is yes to the three questions; for controlling it’s a bit complicated with the existing CLI tools, but it is very easy to configure connections with ini-like configuration files and start them without X. And for wired connections, it *is* the default. It is not the default for wireless connections for two obvious reasons: you need to be root to configure the details, and you would store WPA passphrases and the like in an insecure way. The reason why NM failed in the situation described is completely unrelated to X, it was related to libpcre which NM also uses. Again, libpcre is a vital part of the system and it should be treated with that much attention. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1332506635.4294.9.camel@tomoyo
Re: NM without X
On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 13:43 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le vendredi 23 mars 2012 à 13:35 +0100, Svante Signell a écrit : Can the Network Manager be controlled/started/configured in console mode when X is not running? If the answer to the above questions is yes, maybe that setting (making Network Manager work also without X) would be the default! The answer is yes to the three questions; for controlling it’s a bit complicated with the existing CLI tools, but it is very easy to configure connections with ini-like configuration files and start them without X. Another user-friendly tool :-( Regarding configuration of different tools, clicking here and there is becoming more like the M$ world. There you never know where the configuration information is stored, and if you happen to know you cannot edit a configuration file, since you need a graphical configuration tool to do any changes. Same problem seems to apply to gconf and its successor(s). Where have the tools/services/programs that use a simple text file for configuration gone? A side question: Why does not all applications (X or not) needing internet work with ifupdown, only with NM?? And for wired connections, it *is* the default. I have a wired connection for that computer, so the wireless stuff does not apply for this case. The reason why NM failed in the situation described is completely unrelated to X, it was related to libpcre which NM also uses. OK, got it! Again, libpcre is a vital part of the system and it should be treated with that much attention. Yes, obviously. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1332508569.2962.318.ca...@s1499.it.kth.se
Re: NM without X
The answer is yes to the three questions; for controlling it’s a bit complicated with the existing CLI tools, but it is very easy to configure connections with ini-like configuration files and start them without X. but wicd has front-ends for curses, cli, gnome, kde -- Salvo Tomaselli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: NM without X
Le vendredi 23 mars 2012 à 14:16 +0100, Svante Signell a écrit : Regarding configuration of different tools, clicking here and there is becoming more like the M$ world. If any kind of GUI makes you think of Microsoft, there’s not much we can do for you. There you never know where the configuration information is stored, and if you happen to know you cannot edit a configuration file, since you need a graphical configuration tool to do any changes. Well, you’re talking about Windows, right? Because none of these claims apply to widespread Linux tools. The worst we have are XML files, which are still editable, and sqlite/bdb/gvdb files which are not, for performance reasons, but for which simple text frontends exist. Same problem seems to apply to gconf and its successor(s). Ah yes of course. Because gconftool(1) and gsettings(1) never worked at all. Where have the tools/services/programs that use a simple text file for configuration gone? Dunno. In your ~/.config and ~/.local directories maybe? A side question: Why does not all applications (X or not) needing internet work with ifupdown, only with NM?? Because ifupdown doesn’t do a tenth of what modern applications and computers need. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1332516233.4294.16.camel@tomoyo
Re: NM without X
On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 16:23 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Same problem seems to apply to gconf and its successor(s). Ah yes of course. Because gconftool(1) and gsettings(1) never worked at all. I have tried gconftool before: gconftool Run 'gconftool --help' to see a full list of available command line options. gconftool --help etc... Example: gconftool --get Must specify a key or keys to get Looks like you are expected to do the configuration out of the blue?? You have no idea of what is set already, what the defaults are, etc. You don't get the chance to use any kind of editor. And where is the configuration stored? Do you consider this a good CLI user interface?? And for gsettings: gsettings Usage: gsettings COMMAND [ARGS...] etc. gsettings help get Usage: gsettings get SCHEMA[:PATH] KEY ... Same story. The man pages are not very informative either. A side question: Why does not all applications (X or not) needing internet work with ifupdown, only with NM?? Because ifupdown doesn’t do a tenth of what modern applications and computers need. Then why can't the X default be the same as in the console, as Michal Čihař pointed out in another reply: All you need is to read the documentation and adjust setup to your needs. There is no one default setup which would fit all. I have not manually configured NM to work under X (except commenting out the /etc/network/interfaces settings to enable NM to work. BTW: Why does it not work _with_ these settings enabled?) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1332517594.2962.336.ca...@s1499.it.kth.se
Re: NM without X
On 2012-03-23, Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com wrote: The man pages are not very informative either. lol whut? You're arguing for CLI tools and then fail to read our all favourite documentation source? $ gconftool --all-dirs / /system /desktop /schemas /apps Go figure. From there. Also you're not helping your cause with your constant energy beast reply pattern. Kind regards Philipp Kern -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjmpq3f.3dt.tr...@kelgar.0x539.de
Re: NM without X
This is completely off-topic for -devel. Please take it to debian-user if you want to continue. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120323222941.GA6827@debian
Re: NM without X (general: users vs developers)
On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 22:29 +, Jon Dowland wrote: This is completely off-topic for -devel. Please take it to debian-user if you want to continue. No it is not, this is as important as the systemd/upstart/sysvint\ issue, now being discussed on Debian devel. The general question is: How much tolerance do we as users have towards the developers lack of listening to their users, not their own Freud happiness. As an example: How much has gnome3 contributed to _users_ experiences, I'm using the fall-back solution, due to lack of alternatives right now. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1332542945.2770.30.camel@x60
Re: NM without X (general: users vs developers)
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 22:29 +, Jon Dowland wrote: This is completely off-topic for -devel. Please take it to debian-user if you want to continue. No it is not, this is as important as the systemd/upstart/sysvint\ issue, now being discussed on Debian devel. The general question is: How much tolerance do we as users have towards the developers lack of listening to their users, not their own Freud happiness. As an example: How much has gnome3 contributed to _users_ experiences, I'm using the fall-back solution, due to lack of alternatives right now. I don't contribute as much as I'd like to Debian and thus my view of d-devel might be wrong, but this mailing list is for developers who need to communicate with developers. Not a place for users to air their grievances. If you have coding solutions, please offer them or if you need development advice, then ask. Otherwise, no one is soliciting opinions about NM or gnome3. -mz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOLfK3UKjm65Dtcje=wsv0bkj+uuhp_tuo14eh0r5ecrtdr...@mail.gmail.com
